The Money Part of Private Practice (Heard Business School)

Starting a private practice is hard enough. Doing it while honoring your values, managing student debt, and keeping therapy human? That’s something else.

Dr. Bryan Harnsberger, a clinical psychologist and co-founder of Wellesley Counseling & Wellness, joins Michael Fulwiler to share how he’s built a thriving practice rooted in authenticity, attunement, and play. From a life-changing car accident at 16 to earning his doctorate and growing a team of 30, Bryan opens up about the messy, real side of business ownership.

You’ll hear how he balances his irreverent personality with the seriousness of clinical work, what it takes to create a workplace that people love, and why taking risks even before you're ready is the only way forward.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Building a people-first practice without burning out
• Navigating student debt while starting your own business
• The value of bringing fun and humanity back into therapy work

Connect with the guest:

• Bryan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanharnsberger/ 
• Visit the Wellesley Counseling & Wellness website: https://www.wellesleycw.com/  

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/ 
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter 
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult 

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:14) Meet Dr. Bryan Harnsberger

(03:32) Surviving a car crash

(05:10) Losing a friend inspired his therapy career

(07:14) Why he chose a PsyD over PhD

(08:56) Getting diagnosed with ADHD after brain injury

(13:06) How Trump’s block sparked unexpected online influence

(15:17) Humor as a serious tool in therapy

(16:04) Lessons from a toxic group practice experience

(19:59) Cold email to NBA led to big break

(21:45) Building a business with his wife, Emily

(26:07) Starting a practice right before COVID hit

(27:14) Understanding finances changed how he took risks

(32:10) What it took to launch med management

(35:01) Ethical testing vs. insurance reimbursement challenges

(38:05) Leading with compassion, not just policy or process

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Starting and scaling a private practice can feel overwhelming, especially in a rural region with limited resources. Brent Metcalf, a trauma therapist and group practice owner at Tri-Star Counseling, joins Michael Fulwiler to share how he built a thriving therapy business in Appalachia while staying true to his mission of expanding access to care.

Brent opens up about transitioning from social work to private practice, navigating financial uncertainty, and building a practice that reflects his values. He shares the strategies that helped him grow, from offering pro bono sessions during a natural disaster to hiring provisionally licensed therapists and negotiating with insurance companies.

Listen to hear how Brent balances business growth with community care, and why leading with heart can be a powerful strategy for therapists building something of their own.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• What it takes to launch a successful practice in a rural area
• How to grow from solo to group practice without burning out
• Ways to stay connected to your mission while running a business

Connect with the guest:

• Brent on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-metcalf-028870272/ 
• Visit the Tri-Star Counseling website: https://tri-starcounseling.com/ 

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/ 
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter 
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult 

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(01:36) Introducing Brent Metcalf

(03:01) Growing Up in Rural East Tennessee

(04:31) Small-Town Roots and Musket Bowl Tradition in High School

(05:06) From Ministry to Social Work

(06:11) Joining CPS and Getting Hooked on Fieldwork

(08:10) Choosing to Go Back to Graduate School

(08:52) Transitioning to Vanderbilt and Mental Health Consulting

(10:18) Starting a Therapy Practice Without Business Experience

(14:18) How a Financial Advisor Pushed Him to Go Full-Time

(17:33) Expanding from Part-Time Practice to Full-Time Mission

(18:52) The Importance of Therapy Access in Appalachia

(24:18) Building Trust in Resistant Communities

(30:35) Offering Free Therapy After a Natural Disaster

(34:02) Overcoming Fear of Hiring Employees

(37:17) Navigating Healthcare Crisis Without a Biller

(39:48) The Stress Group Owners Face Daily

(43:27) Negotiating Higher Insurance Reimbursement Rates

(48:15) Staying Connected to Your Why to Prevent Burnout

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode. 

Leaving a traditional therapy model can feel risky, but for Dr. Amanda Buduris, it was the shift that transformed her business. 

Amanda, a licensed psychologist and Brainspotting & EMDR therapist, joins host Michael Fulwiler to share how she went from a burned-out college counseling center employee to a thriving private practice owner charging $350 to $500 per hour.

Amanda walks through her journey into private practice, her decision to stop offering standard 50-minute sessions, and how introducing therapy intensives helped her regain control over her time and energy. She also shares how therapists can navigate the discomfort of premium pricing and shift their mindset around what their work is worth.

Whether you're early in your private practice journey or rethinking your business model, Amanda’s story offers a fresh and practical perspective on what’s possible when therapists put sustainability first.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Why therapy intensives can be more effective for clients
• How to set rates that reflect your value
• Moving past guilt around charging premium fees

Connect with the guest:

• Amanda on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amandakbcoaching/ 
• Amanda on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandabuduris/ 
• Visit Amanda's website: https://amandakbcoaching.com/ 

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/ 
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter 
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult 

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:25) Meet Dr. Amanda Buduris

(01:45) How Safe and Sound Protocol supports healing

(02:42) Amanda’s first-gen experience in grad school

(05:21) First therapy sessions with college students

(08:14) Burnout pushed her toward private practice

(10:50) Challenges during the pandemic

(12:12) Resources that helped her launch her practice

(14:20) Getting her first client through Reddit

(15:10) Choosing trauma and couples as her niche

(18:32) Raising rates and letting go of fear

(21:22) Why she stopped accepting insurance and EAPs

(23:30) Outsourcing bookkeeping before seeing her first client

(28:32) Coaching therapists on business and mindset

(34:34) Is charging premium therapy rates ethical?

(41:57) What intensives are and why they work

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode. 

Email marketing might not be the first thing therapists think of when growing a private practice, but it’s a powerful way to build trust and drive referrals.

Avivit Fisher, founder of REdD Strategy, joins Michael Fulwiler to discuss how therapists can utilize email to attract and retain clients, establish authority, and future-proof their practices against shifting algorithms and social media burnout.

Avivit breaks down what makes a good lead magnet, why you need a welcome sequence, and how to build a list that actually delivers value. Whether you’re just getting started or want to improve your current email strategy, this episode offers simple, actionable advice.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Why email marketing is still underused in mental health
• How to get your first 100 subscribers without paid ads
• Mistakes to avoid when writing newsletters and welcome emails

Connect with the guest:

• Avivit on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reddstrategy/
• Visit the REdD Strategy website: https://www.reddstrategy.com/
• Visit the REdD Academy Network: https://www.reddacademy.com/  

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/ 
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter 
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult 

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:22) Meet Avivit Fisher

(01:45) How Avivit Discovered the Need for Therapist-Focused Marketing

(04:27) The Right Way to Start Building Your Email List

(06:28) Choosing the Best Email Platform for Your Goals

(10:20) What Makes an Irresistible Lead Magnet in 2025

(13:30) Building a Simple Marketing Funnel That Converts

(15:28) Turning Social Media Followers into Loyal Subscribers

(18:58) How Webinars and Newsletters Can Drive Real Growth

(24:15) What Most Therapists Miss in Their Welcome Email

(29:06) How Often Should You Email Your List

(33:19) What Bad Email Marketing Looks Like (and How to Avoid It)

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Building a therapy business takes persistence, creativity, and a willingness to pivot when needed. 

Whitney Goodman, licensed psychotherapist and founder of Calling Home, joins Michael Fulwiler to share her journey from starting private practice while working full-time to becoming a successful content creator and membership community leader.

Whitney opens up about growing her client base through Instagram, navigating the challenges of launching a coworking space before the pandemic, and how she shifted to creating online courses and paid memberships focused on adult family relationships.

Listen to learn how Whitney balanced entrepreneurship with therapy work, embraced experimentation, and validated her ideas before investing deeply.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Pivoting your business in response to unexpected challenges
• Creating online courses and membership models that truly connect
• Marketing your therapy business without feeling salesy or pushy

Connect with the guest:

• Whitney on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sitwithwhit/  
• Whitney on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneylhawkins/
• Visit the Calling Home website: https://callinghome.co/ 

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/ 
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter 
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult 

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:25) Meet Whitney Goodman

(03:06) Whitney’s path to becoming a therapist

(05:17) Starting private practice while working full-time

(06:29) How Whitney got her first clients

(07:33) Growing Instagram and handling early challenges

(09:09) Whitney’s niche in family relationships

(11:07) Marketing efforts after going full-time

(15:41) Launching online courses during Covid

(17:31) The viral post that changed Whitney’s career

(19:32) Handling negative comments on social media

(22:38) Creating and selling Whitney’s first course

(27:26) Reflecting on mistakes and lessons learned

(28:24) Why hired marketers often failed Whitney

(31:06) Forming calling home membership community

(34:12) Moving from toxic positivity to family relationships

(36:24) Therapists can also be your clients

(38:35) Membership pricing and commitment choices

(41:53) Challenges in social media to paid client conversion

(44:16) The worst things Whitney’s heard online, advice for listeners, and more

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

A phone hovering above a mattress, a foster care caseload on hold, and a pandemic looming set the unlikely scene for this week’s social work conversation.

Basiliso “Bas” Moreno, Host of the Social Work Rants Podcast, joins Michael Fulwiler to recount a journey spanning Bronx streets, foster care units, and pandemic caregiving.

Bas recalls starting foster care work at eight dollars an hour, failing the licensing exam five times, losing ten clients and his mother to COVID, and channeling the heartbreak into two hundred podcast episodes and a self-published poetry collection of reflections.

Listen for candid lessons on blending case management and caregiving, stories from pandemic fieldwork that reshaped his mission, and practical advice on protecting family wealth through the emerging practice of financial social work for overburdened parents and children.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• The realities of caregiving while managing a career in social work
• How podcasting and poetry support mental health and outreach
• The business skills social work programs rarely cover

Connect with the guest:

• Bas Moreno on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/basmorenoconsulting/ 
• Bas Moreno on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/basilisomoreno/ 
• Visit Bas Moreno’s website: https://basmorenoconsulting.com/services 
• Check out the Social Work Rants Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/in/basilisomoreno/ 
• Check out Bas Moreno’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Through-Pain-Maximize-Potential/ 

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/ 
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter 
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult 

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(01:00) Meet Bas Moreno

(03:13) Growing Up During Crack Epidemic

(05:02) Early Glimpse Into Case Management

(07:03) 9/11 Shifted Career Direction

(09:50) Starting Foster Work At $8

(11:50) Fordham Internship Through Networking

(15:16) Cultural Gaps In Client Sessions

(17:14) Burnout, Divorce, And Holding On

(21:54) From Rooftop Party To Marriage

(23:03) Personal Caregiving Meets Professional Skills

(25:51) Home Discharge Before Lockdowns Began

(27:42) Navigating Pandemic Visits And Grief

(30:32) Emergency Call As Mom Chokes

(33:26) Flat Affect And Hospital Return

(35:22) Turning Grief Into A Book

(38:58) Becoming A Financial Social Worker

(41:39) Growing A Podcast And Directory

(44:06) Landing First Paid Podcast Sponsor

(47:04) What Social Workers Can Build

(50:55) Advice For The Sandwich Generation

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode. 

Building a thriving private practice as a therapist comes with unique challenges, from finding clients to managing finances and maintaining work-life balance.

Kelley Stevens, a licensed marriage and family therapist and founder of The Private Practice Pro, joins Michael Fulwiler to share her journey from group practice to running a successful private practice and growing a therapist-focused business.

Kelley draws on her marketing expertise and hands-on experience to offer practical advice for therapists who want to build sustainable, mission-driven practices without burning out.

Listen to the conversation to learn how Kelley navigated setting fees, getting referrals, managing maternity leave, and using social media thoughtfully to grow her business.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Building strong referral networks that work
• Setting fees based on value and market realities
• The importance of consistent marketing efforts that fit your style

Connect with the guest:

• Kelley on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theprivatepracticepro/ 
• Kelley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelley-stevens-lmft-b92b4237/
• Visit The Private Practice Pro website: https://theprivatepracticepro.com/ 

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/ 
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter 
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult 

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(01:28) Meet Kelley Stevens

(02:40) Choosing Carleton College And Family History

(04:49) Early Career in Hospital And Group Therapy

(07:18) How Kelley Took on Marketing at Her Group Practice

(09:42) The Importance of Building Referral Networks in Therapy

(13:22) Transitioning From Group Practice To Private Practice

(15:05) Recognizing Unsustainable Work Habits And Burnout

(17:41) Setting Fees And Deciding Against Taking Insurance

(20:34) Launching The Private Practice Pro During The Pandemic

(22:22) Learning Social Media With Help From a Teenager

(25:15) When to Create And Launch Online Courses as a Therapist

(29:54) Top Questions Therapists Ask About Taxes

(31:58) Finding The Right Client-Getting Strategy for You

(34:35) Planning Maternity Leave as a Private Practice Owner

(37:44) How to Build Referral Relationships With Doctors

(42:29) What The Private Practice Pro Offers Beyond Instagram

(44:32) Using Substack And Diversifying Platforms

(48:22) Rapid Fire Answers on Fees, Mistakes, And Photos

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Getting out of debt can feel impossible, especially when you're building a therapy practice, managing student loans, and trying to make your work sustainable for the long haul.

Jacent Wamala, a licensed marriage and family therapist, financial wellness coach, and founder of Wamala Wellness, joins Michael Fulwiler to share how she paid off nearly $100,000 in debt in just three years. 

Jacent talks candidly about her journey through divorce, grief, and financial instability, and how those experiences shaped the way she supports other therapists in doing the same.

This episode is packed with practical advice and mindset shifts for therapists who want to take control of their finances without sacrificing their mission to help others.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Why debt payoff is more about mindset than math
• How to create a money plan that aligns with your life
• What it means to build a “money team” for your business

Connect with the guest:

• Jacent on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jacentwamala/ 
• Jacent on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacent-wamala-aa8baa194/
• Jacent on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_i5S1hB1NAe1v2xxg3kUQA 
• Visit the Wamala Wellness website: https://www.wamalawellness.com/ 

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/ 
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter 
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult 
• Related Webinars: https://www.joinheard.com/events/debt-free-therapist-strategies-for-financial-liberation, https://www.joinheard.com/events/mastering-financial-wellness 
• Episode blog post: https://www.joinheard.com/articles/how-i-paid-off-94-000-in-debt-in-3-years-as-a-marriage-and-family-therapist 

Jump into the conversation:
(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School
(01:20) Meet Jacent Wamala
(03:10) Why She’s Not a Financial Therapist
(03:46) Growing Up Ugandan-American And Moving to Vegas
(07:26) The Cost of Grad School Debt
(10:07) Divorce, Grief, And Her Financial Turning Point
(12:56) Calculating Net Worth Changed Everything
(15:24) What Net Worth Really Tells You
(19:28) Avoidance vs. Acceptance in Money Mindset
(21:22) Budgeting and Setting Clear Debt Goals
(23:03) Living Lean to Accelerate Debt Payoff
(25:58) Building a Money Team for Support
(28:00) It’s Mindset, Not Just Math
(31:00) Real Therapist Success Story: Alicia’s Journey
(35:23) Hesitation, Self-Sabotage, And Getting Help
(37:10) Raise Your Rates And Restructure Finances
(40:19) The Most Common Mistake: Disorganization
(44:05) Finance Strategies Must Fit Your Lifestyle
(45:58) Debt Payoff Methods Explained
(49:21) Using Profit-First To Manage Your Business

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Building a private practice is great. But building one rooted in lived experience is on a whole other level.

Christopher Brown, a Marine Corps veteran and EMDR-certified therapist, joins Michael Fulwiler to share his path from combat to clinical work. 

After surviving a suicide bombing and facing years of PTSD, Christopher found healing through EMDR and turned that transformation into a mission to help others do the same, may they be veterans, first responders, or trauma survivors.

He talks about launching the nonprofit Growing Veterans, the lessons he learned about money and mission, and why he started Helicon to help other EMDR providers build meaningful, sustainable practices.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• How EMDR helped Christopher process trauma and build clinical confidence
• The journey from nonprofit leadership to private practice
• Why first responders need better access to trauma-informed care

Connect with the guest:

• Christopher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cdbrownvet/
• Visit the Helicon website: https://www.gowithhelicon.com/ 

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/ 
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter 
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult 

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:26) Meet Christopher Brown

(06:59) Surviving a suicide bombing during deployment

(10:53) The PTSD Christopher faced after returning home

(12:28) How EMDR helped Christopher stop experiencing flashbacks

(17:43) Why he first sought therapy

(20:21) Launching Growing Veterans to support vets through farming

(24:39) The financial realities of running a nonprofit

(30:13) How Christopher transitioned to private practice

(36:34) Expanding his practice to include first responders

(41:08) How Helicon is improving EMDR access and certification

(44:56) Christopher’s take on psychedelic-assisted therapy for veterans

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Running a therapy practice while staying true to your values isn’t always easy, especially in a system that often prioritizes profit over people.

Paul Fugelsang, founder and executive director of Open Path Psychotherapy Collective, joins  Michael Fulwiler to talk about building a mission-driven organization that connects clients to affordable therapy without compromising clinical integrity. Paul shares his path from overwhelmed private practice therapist to nonprofit leader, and how Open Path now supports over 34,000 therapists across the country.

He reflects on the ethics of sliding scale work, the complexities of talking about money in the therapy room, and why resisting unchecked growth is one way to preserve the soul of this work.

Listen to this episode for real talk on money, values, and building a sustainable practice that serves the people who need it most.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Why affordability doesn’t have to mean burnout or underpayment
• How Open Path created a scalable model that supports therapists and clients
• What therapists should consider when setting their fees

Connect with the guest:
Paul on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-fugelsang-a970123a 
Open Path on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/openpathpsychotherapy/
Visit the Open Path website: https://openpathcollective.org/

Connect with Michael and Heard:
Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:
(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School
(01:26) Meet Paul Fugelsang
(02:14) Discovering Contemplative Psychotherapy at Naropa
(03:06) Working in Juvenile Justice After Grad School
(04:33) Launching a Private Practice in Florida
(06:17) The Idea for Open Path Is Born
(08:41) How Open Path’s Model Works
(10:34) Matching Therapists And Clients Post-Pandemic
(11:45) Paul’s Critique of VC-Backed Mental Health Platforms
(14:33) Balancing Affordability And Therapist Well-Being
(21:15) How to Talk Money With Clients
(25:06) Sliding Scale as a Confidence Crutch
(27:58) Lessons From Launching a Nonprofit
(30:25) Why Open Path Doesn’t Have a Five-Year Plan
(32:45) Will AI Change How We Do Therapy?
(39:52) Why Paul Stays Skeptical of Tech in Therapy
(43:30) Paul’s Message to Therapists Today

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.