Therapy For Your Money

At some point, almost every practice owner daydreams about adding a new service line. A second offering, an adjacent specialty, a new revenue stream that isn't tied to your own hours in the room. It can be a genuinely great move. It can also go sideways fast if you skip the math.

In this episode, Julie talks with Dr. Casey Mangnall, a licensed and forensic psychologist who founded the Utah Center for Psychological Services and scaled an assessment-based practice to seven figures in about three years, then added traditional therapy as a second service line. Casey is refreshingly candid about the financial side: what she spent upfront, how she de-risked the whole thing, and why the economics of a new offering are almost never the same as your core service.

Julie brings the accountant's lens throughout, on cash-flow timing, cost structure, compensation across two very different services, and one warning she repeats often: a new service line is a great way to grow a healthy practice, but it will not rescue a struggling one.

In this episode:

• Why the economics of a new service line differ so much from your core service
• How Casey de-risked her launch by asking "Worst case, how much am I out?"
• The cash-flow reality of paying upfront (and payroll) before the revenue shows up
• Adding a second service line, and the very different admin burden it brought
• How Casey thinks about compensation across two services with totally different billing
• Why adding something new won't fix a struggling practice
• The due diligence to do before you commit to a new service line
• Why your profit margin can drop during high growth, and why that isn't failure

If you've been eyeing a new offering, this is the episode to hear before you spend a dollar on it.

📌 Resources mentioned in this episode:

Connect with Dr. Casey Mangnall:

Utah Center for Psychological Services: https://utahcenterforpsychologicalservices.com/

The Forensic Psychologist Podcast: https://forensicpsychologistpodcast.com/ 

📖 Profit First for Therapists: https://www.profitfirstfortherapists.com/

💼 Work with my accounting firm, GreenOak Accounting: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/consultation

📬 Subscribe to the newsletter: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/subscribegoa

This episode is educational only. Check anything financial with your own accountant, tax preparer, and attorney.

When most practice owners think about selling, they picture one thing: walking away completely. But that's just one point on a much wider spectrum, and understanding the rest of it can change how you think about your whole business.

In this episode, Julie talks with Dan King, co-founder of Fireside Strategic (a firm that buys mental health practices and also represents sellers) and a former lawyer with an executive coaching background. Full transparency: Dan sits on the buyer and investor side, which makes his view of how these deals really work especially useful. Together they walk through the full range of options, from selling a slice of your practice to a marketer or operator, to taking most of your chips off the table while staying on, to a full exit.

Julie keeps the accountant's thread throughout: the profit you need before you're sellable, how buyers actually put a number on your practice, and the deal structures that determine how much of that number you actually walk away with.

In this episode:

• Why selling is a spectrum, not just "walk away," and the "two bites at the apple" approach
• What "taking chips off the table" really means, and how it de-risks your net worth
• Who's actually buying practices right now, from roll-ups to search funds
• The minimum profit that makes a practice sellable, and the thresholds where options open up
• How buyers set a number: multiples, and the "add-back dance"
• Cash at close vs. seller notes vs. earn-outs, and how risk gets shared
• Why the LOI is rarely the final deal, and how to protect yourself
• How to tell an ethical buyer from one who isn't
• What to start doing now if you might sell in the next few years

Whether a sale is years away or just a someday idea, this is the episode to hear before anyone makes you an offer.

📌 Resources mentioned in this episode:

Connect with Dan King:

Fireside Strategic: https://www.firesidestrategic.com/

Email: [email protected]

📖 Profit First for Therapists: https://www.profitfirstfortherapists.com/

💼 Work with my accounting firm, GreenOak Accounting: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/consultation

📬 Subscribe to the newsletter: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/subscribegoa

This episode is educational only. Check anything financial with your own accountant, tax preparer, and attorney.

Quick question: who can spend your practice's money right now, today? Not who's supposed to, but who actually could pick up a card with your name on it and buy something?

In this episode, Julie gets a little intense (her words) about financial controls, because she's seen the same story play out a hundred times. A shared card, a mystery charge, no receipt, and an owner left quietly wondering whether they can still trust someone on their team. As she puts it, the expensive part usually isn't the $40. It's the doubt that comes after.

She walks through how money actually leaves a practice, why a budget is a form of trust rather than a lack of it, why asking team members to front their own cash can be a real hardship, and the specific tool GreenOak uses to solve all of it.

Heads up: this episode includes a paid partnership. GreenOak is a referral partner with Ramp and earns a commission if you sign up through the link below. Julie only recommends tools GreenOak actually uses, and the team has been on Ramp for over a year.

In this episode:

• The question every owner should be able to answer: who can spend your money right now?
• Why the real cost of a shared card is broken trust, not the dollars
• Why "to be unclear is to be unkind," and how a spending budget is actually permission
• The hidden hardship of asking team members to front their own cash
• How the right financial controls protect your practice and your relationships
• What Ramp is, how GreenOak uses it, and who it's a fit for (and who it isn't)

If more than one person is using the same card, that's the thing to fix. However you do it, go fix it.

📌 Resources:

👉 Sign up for Ramp and get a $500 credit when you spend $1,000 in your first 90 days: https://ramp.com/partners/greenoak

GreenOak Accounting is a Ramp referral partner and earns a commission if you sign up through this link. Julie only shares tools GreenOak actually uses and likes.

📖 Profit First for Therapists: https://www.profitfirstfortherapists.com/

💼 Work with my accounting firm, GreenOak Accounting: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/consultation

📬 Subscribe to the newsletter: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/subscribegoa

This episode is educational only. Check anything financial with your own accountant, tax preparer, and attorney.

You want your revenue to grow. So you check the revenue number. Then you check it again. And somehow staring at it never seems to make it go up.

That is the trap Julie and Dr. Adam Robin dig into in this conversation. Adam is a physical therapist, healthcare entrepreneur, and founder of Inbox Zero VA, and he thinks about revenue the way an accountant does: as an output, not a lever. If you want the output to change, you have to go under the hood and pull on the operational numbers that actually create it.

Together they walk through the handful of numbers that quietly decide whether a practice grows or just spins its wheels: what to watch every single week, where money leaks out without anyone noticing, and the one number Adam says most owners have never calculated, even though operating below it can sink a practice slowly enough that you don't feel it happening.

If your revenue looks fine but your take-home doesn't, or you have a big growth goal and no real plan underneath it, this one is for you.

In this episode:

• Why you can't grow revenue by watching the revenue number, and what to watch instead
• The operational KPIs Adam keeps a pulse on to drive income up and to the right
• How to decide when a payer contract is worth keeping and when it's time to walk away
• The hiring math behind a big growth goal (and why "hire three people" often really means six)
• The single most expensive place a practice leaks money, and it's not where you'd guess
• Why a busy, high-revenue practice can still leave the owner with almost nothing
• The four numbers to start tracking every week if you've never measured anything
• The "keep the lights on" number almost no owner knows off the top of their head

Revenue tells you what already happened. The operational numbers underneath it tell you what's about to.

📌 Resources mentioned in this episode:

Inbox Zero VA: https://inboxzerova.com/

The PPO Club Conference (San Antonio): https://ppoclubevents.com/home-page-2026

Connect with Dr. Adam Robin:

Website: https://inboxzerova.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dradamrobin/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dradamrobin/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-adam-robin-dpt-healthcare-staffing-038a9145

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dradamrobin

📖 Profit First for Therapists: https://www.profitfirstfortherapists.com/

💼 Work with my accounting firm, GreenOak Accounting: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/consultation

📬 Subscribe to the newsletter: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/subscribegoa

This episode is educational only. Check everything with your own accountant, tax preparer, and attorney.

Every practice owner has thought about it. You write the rent check, watch it disappear, and think: what if I owned this instead?

In this episode, Julie pulls back the curtain on buying your practice building — the strategic case for it, the very specific financial conditions you need to meet first, and the situations where she'll tell you flat out not to do it. (There's one scenario she calls a hard line. "You will not change my mind. I will stay on this hill.")

She also walks through what actually happens after you decide to buy: why the practice itself shouldn't be the one purchasing the property, the paperwork most owners try to skip to save a few dollars, and the tax mechanics that make this worth doing right — plus the one tax surprise waiting for you years later that nobody warns you about.

If you've ever daydreamed about owning your space, this is the episode to listen to before you make an offer.

In this episode:

• The real reason most practice owners buy — and it isn't on any spreadsheet
• The stability and cash test you need to pass before you even start looking
• Why buying can hurt you in certain markets right now
• The structure decision that protects both your practice and your building
• Why you can't do a handshake deal with yourself
• The tax advantage that does the heavy lifting — and the recapture that follows it
• What Julie tells clients to do before making an offer

Mentioned in this episode:
Episode 206: How Much Is Too Much? The Rent Equation That Can Make or Break Your Profit — Julie's breakdown of how to run the math on your physical space and the revenue it needs to generate.

Less than 20% of GreenOak's clients own their building. Julie's take on the other 80%+? They're doing just fine.

This episode is educational only — check everything with your own accountant, tax preparer, and attorney.

Links and Resources

• GreenOak Accounting - www.GreenOakAccounting.com
• Therapy For Your Money Podcast - www.TherapyForYourMoney.com
• Profit First for Therapists - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.com

In Part 1, Ken Urie and Ernie Schmidt talked about the mindset of stepping back. In Part 2, they get into the how: what it actually takes to hand over the day-to-day and trust someone else to run your practice.

They dig into letting a leader make calls you wouldn't have made, why the businesses they built are structured so a single decision can't quietly sink the ship, and what they each looked for when choosing the person to replace them. Ken hired from within, Ernie hired from the outside, and both explain the trade-offs.

They also get candid about selling versus staying, including why the private-equity payday a lot of owners imagine rarely pencils out the way they expect.

Julie keeps the thread on the financial reality underneath it all: the stability and systems that let this work, and why trying it too early tends to go badly.

If you missed Part 1, start there for the mindset. This one is the playbook.

In this episode:

• How Ken and Ernie decide when to step in and when to let a leader run with it
• Why they say delegating too early, before stability and systems, is where owners get burned
• Hiring from within vs. from the outside, and what each of them looked for
• Selling vs. staying, and why the EBITDA/private-equity math often disappoints
• What their week actually looks like now as owners who've stepped back

📌 Resources mentioned in this episode:

Connect with Ken Urie & Ernie Schmidt:

Group Practice Success: https://www.grouppracticesuccess.com/

📖 Profit First for Therapists: https://www.profitfirstfortherapists.com/

💼 Work with my accounting firm, GreenOak Accounting: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/consultation

📬 Subscribe to the newsletter: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/subscribegoa

This episode is educational only. Check anything financial with your own accountant, tax preparer, and attorney.

Most group practice owners hit a moment where they wonder: could this business run without me in the middle of everything? This week Julie sits down with two owners who actually did it.

Ken Urie (Mill Creek Family Services) and Ernie Schmidt (Palo Alto Therapy) have each grown large group practices and stepped back from day-to-day operations, and they coach other owners through the same shift. In Part 1, they get honest about the mindset side: what pushed them to replace themselves, how one leader basically self-selected into the role, and why neither of them planned any of it.

Julie brings the money lens to their story: the stability and cash flow you realistically need behind you before stepping back is even an option, and the numbers a smart owner keeps an eye on once they do.

This is Part 1 of a two-part conversation. Part 2 gets into the logistics of actually handing over the wheel.

In this episode:

• What finally pushed Ken and Ernie to replace themselves (it wasn't a tidy plan)
• Why years of stability, not a big idea, made stepping back possible
• The metrics Ken reviews every month, and how he uses average revenue per session to set pay and benefits
• How much financial transparency Ken and Ernie each give their leaders, and why they landed in very different places
• Julie's take on the financial footing you want before you delegate the business

Whether you dream of stepping back someday or just want to stop being the bottleneck, Part 1 is where the mindset shift starts.

📌 Resources mentioned in this episode:

Connect with Ken Urie & Ernie Schmidt:

Group Practice Success: https://www.grouppracticesuccess.com/

📖 Profit First for Therapists: https://www.profitfirstfortherapists.com/

💼 Work with my accounting firm, GreenOak Accounting: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/consultation

📬 Subscribe to the newsletter: https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/subscribegoa

This episode is educational only. Check anything financial with your own accountant, tax preparer, and attorney.

Running a private practice means making a lot of decisions, some exciting, some uncomfortable, and some that just can’t wait.

In this quarterly check-in, I’m joined by Jacquie Carter from our GreenOak team to talk about what we’re actually seeing behind the scenes right now. From tax planning mistakes (yes, we’re going there) to payroll realities, hiring challenges, and a few hard truths practice owners don’t always want to hear, but really need to.

If you’ve ever thought, “I’ll deal with that later,” this episode is your gentle nudge… because later is today. 

In This Episode, You’ll Discover:
1. Why tax planning starts now, not next April
Waiting until tax season to “fix” your taxes? Unfortunately, that’s when it’s already too late. We break down what proactive planning actually looks like.

2. The financial decisions that quietly put practices at risk
From overpaying payroll to pulling too much out of the business, we’re talking about the patterns we’re seeing (and how to course-correct).

3. What’s actually worth your time as a practice owner
Not every project, rebrand, or idea deserves your attention. We’ll help you refocus on what truly moves the needle.

Resources and Links

• Episode #209: Financial Transparency: How Much Is Too Much? Listen on Apple Podcasts
• Money for Therapists Practice Startup - https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/startup
• GreenOak Accounting - www.GreenOakAccounting.com
• Therapy For Your Money Podcast - www.TherapyForYourMoney.com
• Profit First for Therapists - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.com
• Profit First Academy - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.com/Academy
• Watch Therapy For Your Money on YouTube: Watch on YouTube 
• Podcast Production, Audio Mixing, and YouTube Video Production by James Marland

If you’ve crossed (or are approaching) that $1M mark in your practice, you’ve probably realized something… growth doesn’t get easier—it just gets different. In this episode, I’m joined by Joshua Brummel from Therapy Flow to talk about the hidden bottlenecks that show up as you scale from $1M to $3M and beyond. These aren’t the obvious problems you solved early on, they’re the behind-the-scenes issues that quietly slow your growth, shrink your profit, and stretch your capacity as a CEO. We’re breaking down what’s really going on and what you need to focus on to keep moving forward.

3 Reasons to Listen

1. You’ll understand why growth starts to feel harder (even when things are “working”). Hitting $1M doesn’t mean you’ve figured it all out, it means you’re entering a new level with new challenges.
2. You’ll learn the bottlenecks that are most likely costing you time, money, and sanity. From clinician churn to lack of systems, these are the issues we see over and over again in growing practices.
3. You’ll start thinking like a CEO, not just a practice owner. Scaling requires a shift in how you spend your time, make decisions, and lead your business.

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Group Practice Con (Sept 10–11, Chicago): https://grouppracticecon.com
• Therapy Flow: https://mytherapyflow.com
• Money for Therapists Practice Startup - https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/startup
• GreenOak Accounting - www.GreenOakAccounting.com
• Therapy For Your Money Podcast - www.TherapyForYourMoney.com
• Profit First for Therapists - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.com
• Profit First Academy - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.com/Academy
• Watch Therapy For Your Money on YouTube: Watch on YouTube
• Podcast Production, Audio Mixing, and YouTube Video Production by James Marland

If you’ve ever felt like you’re doing all the right things—taking time off, booking the massage, squeezing in a workout—but still feeling exhausted… this episode is going to hit home.

Because what if the problem isn’t that you need more self-care?

In this conversation, I sit down with Valarie Harris, author of The Capacity Code, to unpack a powerful idea: many practice owners aren’t dealing with a self-care problem—they’re dealing with a capacity crisis. And until you address that, no amount of bubble baths or weekends off will fix the burnout.

We’re diving into what capacity actually means, how it impacts your business (and your team), and why understanding your limits might be the key to building a sustainable, profitable practice.

3 Lessons From This Episode
1. It’s Not a Self-Care Problem—It’s a Capacity Problem
Many practice owners default to self-care when they feel overwhelmed. But as Valarie explains, self-care often becomes avoidance or short-term relief rather than a real solution. What worked in a previous season of life may not match your current demands—and that mismatch leads to burnout.

2. Your Capacity Directly Impacts Your Practice
Capacity isn’t just personal—it shows up in your business. When your capacity is low, you may notice:

• Increased reactivity and urgency
• Difficulty making decisions
• Team turnover or disengagement
• Disconnection from your mission

On the flip side, when your capacity is strong, your team is more aligned, your systems run smoother, and your practice becomes more sustainable.

3. Avoidance (Especially Around Money) Is a Capacity Signal

If you’ve been avoiding your numbers, delaying tax conversations, or feeling overwhelmed by finances, you’re not alone. But that avoidance is often a capacity issue, not a knowledge issue.

Building simple, repeatable rhythms (like monthly money check-ins) can help you stay grounded and make better financial decisions without the stress.

Links & Resources

• Get the book: The Capacity Code  https://www.thecapacitycodeunlocked.com/
• The Capacity Code on Amazon: https://a.co/d/0hgaBTaM
• Follow Valarie on Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/valarie.l.harris
• Money for Therapists Practice Startup - https://www.greenoakaccounting.com/startup
• GreenOak Accounting - www.GreenOakAccounting.com
• Therapy For Your Money Podcast - www.TherapyForYourMoney.com
• Profit First for Therapists - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.com
• Profit First Academy - www.ProfitFirstForTherapists.com/Academy
• Watch Therapy For Your Money on YouTube: Watch on YouTube 
• Podcast Production, Audio Mixing, and YouTube Video Production by James Marland