The Resilient Recruiter

One of the common factors that fast-growing recruitment companies share is that they invest in their people. To attract great recruiters, maximize their performance and retain them as pillars upon which you can build your business, you need a solid career development program in place including excellent training and development.

What does a world-class talent development program look like? I can’t think of anyone better qualified to answer that question than my special guest, Ann Swain. Ann is the Global CEO of APSCo, an international trade body representing the recruitment sector with operations in the UK, Germany, Singapore, and Australia. Ann has over 30 years’ recruitment experience, and co-authored the best-selling Professional Recruiter’s Handbook. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:10] An easy and inexpensive way to way to begin training your new recruiters.
• [7:57] Brief introduction to APSCo (Association of Professional Staffing Companies).
• [11:45] Talent development and making recruitment a real profession.
• [18:34] What does a world-class talent development program look like?
• [26:45] What can we do in the recruitment sector to create pathways for more women to the top?
• [31:49] Culture by design - what should business owners consider when designing the culture of their workplace?
• [35:08] Trends, opportunities and challenges for recruiters post-COVID.
• [46:06] Planning to expand internationally? Factors to consider. 

What Does A World-Class Talent Development Program Look Like?

Ann is passionate about talent development and making the recruitment sector into the profession it deserves to be. The two are interrelated, and should be brought together in order to maximize your team’s performance and attract great people. With over 30 years’ career in recruitment and global talent development, what does a world-class career and talent development program look like for Ann? She laid out the following pointers:

• Training shouldn’t stop once someone completes their induction / onboarding. It should be a career long program.
• Utilize both internal and external resources when creating a development program.
• It should be organized and have flexibility, avoiding a cookie-cutter approach.
• Should be a mix of online training and face to face delivery.
• Be creative - don’t focus purely on skills development. “The recruitment market should start looking at personal development rather than just skills-based training.”
• The benefits of a mentoring program.

To conclude, Ann said, “I think from a development program, it goes beyond training, it goes to mentoring, it goes to personal development across the board in things that are not only about recruitment and skill sets necessary, but as an individual - how you can grow throughout your career.” 

Creating Pathways to Greater Diversity

Working my way through Recruiter Magazine’s Hot 100 List, I noticed that there are only around six women on the list of Founders and CEOs, which I thought as an industry we could do better. I took this chance to ask Ann, as someone who made it to the C-suite, what she believes we can do to create pathways for more women to the top. She shared a very interesting insight. 

Ann said, “I’ve been involved in ‘Women in Recruitment’ for a very long period of time and we have done research every year, to see whether that figure has changed. It hasn’t changed enough and there are definitely things we can do.” One of the things they found is that “we lose women from the recruitment market, not all of them but a big percentage.” And what could be the reason? Cultural fit. Listen to how Ann further elaborated this aspect and how we can do better as a sector in terms of gender balance and diversity.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®. 

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained 

Ann Swain Bio and Contact Info

Ann Swain is the Global CEO of APSCo, an international trade body representing the professional recruitment sector with operations in the UK, Germany, Singapore and Australia. Ann has over 30 years’ recruitment experience and is co-author of the best-selling Professional Recruiter’s Handbook. In 2009, she was honoured to receive a fellowship from the NSPCC and in 2014 she joined the Executive Committee of Women in Recruitment. In 2018, Ann received the prestigious Leadership Award from the Trader Association Forum and features in Staffing Industry Analysts Global Power List of the most influential women in professional recruitment. 

An acknowledged thought leader, Ann features regularly in the national, HR, business and recruitment media and is a popular platform speaker at conferences around the world.

• Ann on LinkedIn
• Ann on Twitter @AnnAPSCo
• APSCo website link
• APSCo on Facebook
• APSCo on Instagram

People and Resources Mentioned

• The Professional Recruiter's Handbook: Delivering Excellence in Recruitment Practice
• Plamen Ivanoff on LinkedIn
• Jane Newell Brown on LinkedIn
• Women in Recruitment website link
• Women in Recruitment on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR#43 How to Transition From Contingency CV Supplier to Consultative Retained Recruiter, with Plamen Ivanoff

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Is it really possible to work less and make more? It seems counter-intuitive and the majority of big billers I know advocate the “hustle and grind” approach. But what if you could work smarter rather than harder?  

My special guest, Michelle Parchman, has been doing this for years - billing half a million dollars per annum by working 2 to 3 hours a day. Like me, you will find her thought process revolutionary! Listening to our conversation may move you to revisit your way of working, your values and how you define success.

Michelle is originally a CPA and began her public accounting career in auditing with Anderson in Dallas. After 17 years in Big Four public accounting plus seven years with the largest executive search firm in San Antonio, she founded Parchman and Parchman Executive Search in 2009, specializing in accounting, finance, tax, legal and C-level searches. Parchman and Parchman was named by Forbes as one of America’s best recruiting firms and Michelle has been described as one of San Antonio’s Most Inspiring and Influential Women. She is also a Board Director for the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of 80 leading recruiters in North America.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:37] Transition from accounting to executive search - Michelle shares her story.
• [9:50] Putting processes and systems in place to make things happen - what to learn from Indy Race’s refuelling methods. 
• [12:00] How to accomplish billing half a million and work in less than 15 hours a week - four solid takeaways.
• [16:54] Why is Michelle working only two to three hours a day? Hear her revolutionary insight.
• [22:01] Best practices on planning and prioritization - when to do it, how to do it, and thought process.
• [30:09] Network power and why your network can be your bank account.
• [34:22] Advice on becoming super efficient.
• [43:31] How to become a master in a balanced life.
• [51:00] Why Michelle works exclusively with clients.

From Public Accounting to Executive Search

Michelle revealed her journey and transition from being a public accountant for 17 years to becoming an owner of an executive search business. If you are just starting your career as a recruiter, you will definitely relate to her story. It was not all rainbows and butterflies, as she also relayed how it was challenging for her at the outset. The recruitment firm she initially worked for did not fully fit with her way of working, which led her to create systems and processes. “It was very challenging in the first six months, I didn’t think that I was going to like it, I didn’t think I was going to succeed, but once I was able to kind of roll up my sleeves and lay out processes like ‘this is how we are going to strategize to get new clients’… It was great!”

With her current success, what were really her daily thoughts during the painstaking first six months? “I think I typically persevere and I want to succeed and I am motivated. I’m just not willing to not let this work.” Indeed, an inspiring story for our new recruiters out there, or anyone facing adversity and overwhelm.

Bill Half Million and Work Less Than 15 Hours a Week

Is it possible to hit half a million dollars in billings by working only 15 hours a week? “It is 100 percent possible, and I have been doing it for years and years,” Michelle confirmed. The foundation is her thought process.  She evaluates and prioritizes all her work activities based on ROI (return on investment). “It is because I look at everything as ROI. So every single thing I do, I think in my head, what is the return on my investment? For me it’s time.  Time and then money. I try to make sure that everything I do is going to take me the least amount of time and give me the highest amount of money.”

Some of my key takeaways of our conversation:

• Thinking about the ROI - not just for money but for your time.
• “Working closest to the money.”
• Coming up with the ten most important things to do each day - ranked .
• Know your values (what’s most important to you) and prioritize accordingly.

The Power of Network

Another key factor for success that Michelle revealed in our conversation was her network. She said, “I just feel blessed in the sense that I know really smart people.” Her network is based on two foundational principles - relationship building and ethics. Ethics plays a major role when selecting her network. Also knowing that the people she surrounds herself with are so trusted and credentialed, it makes her job really easy when she gets referrals because she knows that they would only refer her people who also have the same level of ethics and professionalism. 

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®. 

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained 

Michelle Parchman Bio and Contact Info

Michelle is a Certified Public Accountant and Certified Personnel Consultant. She graduated with distinction from Oklahoma University with a BBA, concentration in accounting. Michelle began her public accounting career in auditing with Andersen in Dallas. During her 17-year successful tenure with Andersen, Michelle worked in Audit, Tax, Business Development, and Recruiting.

Michelle has received numerous awards and recognition:

• Inspiring Woman – San Antonio’s Most Successful Women
• Forbes recognition for America’s Best Recruiting Firm (selected by Peers
• and HR).
• Top Permanent Placement Firm in San Antonio, San Antonio Business Journal, 2011, and every year thereafter.
• Ranked as Top 25 Texas Recruiter, Texas Association of Personnel Consultants, 2004, and every year beyond, until the Association ceased.
• Ranked as the #10 Recruiter in Texas, multiple years
• Rookie of the Year, Texas Association of Personnel Consultants, 2004
• #1 Recruiter, San Antonio Association of Personnel Consultants, 2004 and every year beyond, until the Association ceased.
• Rookie of the Year, San Antonio Association of Personnel Consultants Consultant of the Year, largest search firm in San Antonio, (every year employed)

In 2009, Michelle founded Parchman + Parchman, Executive Search Experts, a highly specialized, niche recruiting firm specializing in Accounting, Finance, Tax, Legal, and C-Level searches. The primary function of the firm is to locate and present the best-qualified talent the current market has to offer. Michelle brings more than 20 years collective experience in the recruitment and placement of qualified professionals. Michelle is also Current Board of Director for The Pinnacle Society, the premier Consortium of 80 Industry-Leading Recruiters in North America.

• Michelle on LinkedIn
• Parchman + Parchman Executive Search website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• John Schlegel on LinkedIn
• Pinnacle Society website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TR#65 Recruiting Success: How to Bill $700k+ While Achieving Work-Life Balance, With John Schlegel

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Business acquisitions can be a hassle and can present a lot of challenges - especially when it comes to the integration of management, culture, and way of working. My special guest, Ross Eades, believes that as challenging as it may be, strategic acquisitions can effectively lead your business to phenomenal growth! Hear his experience and approach on how he built recruitment powerhouse businesses and how he kept his current organization’s business growing despite the pandemic.

Ross is the CEO of RED Commerce, a global leader in placing SAP professionals with 250 employees and six locations around the world. Prior to joining RED Commerce in 2018, Ross was the CEO of Horton Group International - a global executive search and leadership firm with 50 offices in 32 countries. Ross has a phenomenal track record as a CEO within the recruiting and staffing industry.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• Ross shares his journey of building up InterQuest Group PLC - his challenges and key learnings.
• Increasing the business by 10x in 5 years - four key success factors for such a phenomenal growth rate. 
• Moving to Horton International - Ross’s enormous undertakings and significant contributions.
• Strategic planning in growing your business - hear Ross’s key takeaways on the planning process and collaboration.
• What attracted Ross to join RED and how he steered the organization through the pandemic.
• Post-pandemic adjustments - what are the learnings that organizations should keep even after things go back to ‘normal’. 
• What are secrets to attracting and retaining good people for your recruitment business? 

Increasing the Business by Ten Times in Five Years

One of Ross’s amazing feats when he was with InterQuest was growing the business from 10M to 100M USD in five years. So I had to ask him, what were the key success factors that enabled him to achieve that phenomenal growth rate? Ross responded, “I put a lot of it down to the focus of the teams we had and the businesses we bought in. The idea was to have a selection of specialist teams.” This ‘specialist approach’ contributed highly to the growth and success of InterQuest.

Ross also added his thoughts and practices in growing a business through acquisitions. Mainly in three areas:

• Management Due Diligence
• Pre-Acquisition
• Post-Acquisition

He also elaborated on the benefits and value of growing through strategic acquisitions. It is not easy to integrate new businesses, so best-practices and learnings from personal experiences to overcome difficulties were shared. Best to hear all these pieces of gems from Ross himself.

Steering Through the Pandemic

Ross eventually joined RED SAP Solutions. One of his notable accomplishments as CEO is steering the organization to success during the pandemic. The company is still doing an amazing job during the crisis and continues to grow. Were there any things they would have done differently? Ross answered, “I have not given it that much thought to be honest. There isn’t anything… I can’t identify anything that we haven’t done that if I had our time again last year we would have done. I think we were very quick to put the right things in place and to try and protect the business and as many people’s job as we possibly can.” 

So now things that are ‘normalizing’, what learnings or changes could organizations adapt to retain post-pandemic? I asked this question to Ross for RED, and his answer was definitely insightful. Hear his thoughts on a hybrid model of working in the office and remotely.

Retaining Amazing Talents

A key factor when growing your recruitment business is attracting and retaining great talent. This is definitely a challenge, ironically, to the recruitment industry. So if you ask Ross of the secrets in attracting and retaining talent, he mentioned these key factors:

• Brand
• Market
• Career development path
• Your own growth

In this episode, you’ll hear Ross explain these points in detail.

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®. 

i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained 

Ross Eades Bio and Contact Info

Ross Eades is the Chief Executive Officer of RED Commerce and holds a seat on the RED Board of Directors. Ross joined RED in May 2018, with a wealth of recruitment experience in international blue-chip organisations. He has a successful track record spanning 24 years (as a CEO), creating growth, both organically and via strategic acquisitions, within the technology sector. Prior to assuming the Chief Executive Officer role at RED, Ross held the post of Chief Executive Officer of Horton Group International – a global executive search and leadership firm, with 50 offices in 32 countries.

Ross spent several years building Modis Professional Services Group International into a £300m turnover, 800+ staff, European professional services organisation, with key brands Modis and Badenoch & Clark. Ross has taken a private business through an IPO to successful flotation and listing on the London Stock Exchange, as well as achieving a significant trade sale at a premium price. 

Previous successes include five years developing InterQuest Group plc from £10m to £100m+ in revenues, achieving all analyst profit expectations and four years completing the turnaround of UK staffing organization, Kellan Group plc.

• Ross on LinkedIn
• RED SAP Solutions website link
• RED SAP Solutions on Twitter @REDSAPSolutions
• RED SAP Solutions on Facebook
• RED SAP Solutions on Instagram
• RED SAP Solutions on Youtube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Romney Rawes info

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Want to accelerate growth and increase your recruitment business profits?  According to Nathan Callaghan, it’s about hiring the right people and creating a culture where they can thrive.

Nathan is Managing Director at Futureheads Recruitment - an award winning recruitment company based in London with a team of 30. They have been awarded Great Place to Work multiple times as well as listed on the London Stock Exchange’s 1000 companies to inspire Britain several years in a row. 

I asked Nathan about the factors that contributed to Futureheads being ranked by Recruiter Magazine as one of their Hot 100 companies, based on GP/employee.  Some of the success factors he shared include niche market specialization, clear company values, a culture of collaboration and a career path that allows people to play to their strengths.   

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:20] Two pointers to keep in mind to thrive while specializing in your niche.
• [4:55] Managing the client journey - Nathan shares how they make it easy to engage with clients.
• [10:39] Getting the balance in giving your team freedom of creativity while upholding company standards.
• [14:50] Key lessons in 2020 that shaped Futureheads decision making in 2021.
• [22:55] The non-negotiable values that were upheld during the challenging times of the pandemic. 
• [35:00] Great approach to capture massive opportunities in the current market while establishing a career path for your team.
• [45:30] How to assign your team to their area of focus to establish fluidity and coherence.
• [52:08] Attributes that are more important than experience - what to look for when hiring. 

The Benefit of Being Niche Market Specialists

I asked Nathan about their approach to niche specialization. Futureheads has a deep and genuine commitment to being experts who focus on a handful of digital specializations rather than “tackling a bit of everything.” 

I am a big believer of niche specialization so it was interesting hearing Nathan lay out how and why they do it this way. Nathan shared insights on how to increase your success while specializing in your niche:

• You must balance the rigour of good recruitment practice alongside genuine interest in the space.
• As you scale, it is really important to put a strong client management process around that niche focus.

Is the 360 Model Outdated? Futureheads Wants their Recruitment Consultants to Play to their Strengths

One positive impact of the pandemic for Futureheads was redesigning their business model and adopting a more collaborative approach.  Nathan explained that the management team started questioning, “why are we asking people to conform to the 360 model?”

He elaborated: “If we want our people to really thrive and reach their peak performance, let’s stop pushing people to do things where the enjoyment and engagement isn’t there. Let’s create career paths where they can play to their strengths and focus on the component of the job that makes sense to them, whether that’s client acquisition, process management, candidate engagement.  Giving people control back is really working for us.”

According to Nathan, some people can perform well as 360 degree Consultants, but the majority of people truly excel at either the client side or candidate side, not both.  He believes they’ll get the most out of people and have a happier, more engaged team if everyone plays to their strengths. At futureheads, Consultants can choose whether they want to focus on client acquisition, candidate generation or process management.  The Consultants then partner with each other and collaborate to complete projects and make placements. 

Interestingly the job titles and career paths are the same for both sides of the desk, so Consultants who are excellent at candidate generation and engagement have the same opportunities for promotion as the business developers who open new accounts.

What Attributes Make a Successful Recruitment Consultant?

Futureheads were recognized by the Recruiter Magazine’s Hot 100 List which is the most successful recruitment companies in the UK based on GP per employee. They are now looking for future growth. Nathan mentioned they are hiring and focus more on people who have the right attributes, rather than necessarily having recruitment experience. So I asked him “what are the top attributes you look for more than the experience? Here are the takeaways:

• Genuinely caring about what you do 
• The ability to maintain a level head during the best and worst of times 
• Strong work ethic, which for Nathan doesn’t mean unnecessary long hours, but rather “output you deliver while you’re at work.”

Our Sponsors

This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®. i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology plus methodology enables recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: http://resources.i-intro.co.uk/markwhitby 

Nathan Callaghan Bio and Contact Info 

Nathan Callaghan is Managing Director at Futureheads Recruitment. A seasoned recruitment professional, with substantial experience leading recruitment business within the digital and technology space.  For over twenty years he has identified talent for a variety of businesses, working both as an agency and inhouse recruiter. He has worked in multiple recruitment start ups during his career and has a strong track record in creating new service lines within existing brands. He has been part of management teams in high growth recruitment environments, a business owner and in his role at Futureheads has found a leadership position that allows him to balance a values led approach with commercial thinking.

• Nathan on LinkedIn
• Futureheads Recruitment website link
• Futureheads on twitter @FutureheadsJobs

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

From changing people’s lives to creating positive social and economic impact, a career in recruitment can be a truly fulfilling experience. Despite the best intentions, you may still face the frustration of being perceived as a salesperson who is just after the fee, rather than what is the best for your candidate and your client. How do you change this perception? For Charles Cameron, it is all about defining and selling the value of what you do. 

My special guest Charles is the CEO of RCSA Australia and New Zealand and Vice President of the World Employment Confederation, the global lobby group for the recruitment, staffing and HR services industry. In our discussion, you will hear Charles’ insights on the importance of genuinely professional recruitment consultants and how to sell that value to your clients. Charles also shared why recruiters will always remain relevant despite the continued rise of online and AI platforms and why cooperation in our industry will make us stronger and more influential.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• 3:27 How Charles got into the recruiting industry.
• 8:05 Charles talks about the importance of genuinely professional recruitment and staffing consultants.
• 14:10 The economic and social contribution of professional recruitment and staffing firms.
• 17:05 Why genuine recruitment professionals will always be relevant despite the continued rise of online and AI platforms.
• 19:50 How do we sell the value of what we do?
• 30:30 Competition versus cooperation - what makes us stronger and more influential when we share and cooperate.
• 38:24 What are the big challenges and opportunities facing our industry post covid?

The Importance of Genuinely Professional Recruitment and Staffing Consultants

A passionate advocate for labour market intermediaries and consultants, Charles is driven by the role professional recruitment consultants can play in inspiring people to be better through work. I took the opportunity to ask him about his thoughts on the importance of genuinely professional recruitment. 

As CEO of RCSA Australia and New Zealand and Vice President of the World Employment Confederation, his insights are remarkably relevant especially in today's economy. Charles stated, “I think great recruitment professionals have this ability to get inside the minds of individuals and find something that they didn’t themselves know was there.” He further explained that although it may appear easy on the surface - finding someone who needs a job and marrying them to the right client - it actually involves more than just that. “Getting inside their minds, understanding what it is that they have, how it is that we can assist them to transition skills from old economy jobs to new economy jobs, really then supporting them” Charles added. Hear more about how Charles wants to change the way in which people look at recruitment agents.

Charles Cameron Bio and Contact Info

Charles is CEO of RCSA Australia & New Zealand and Vice President of the World Employment Confederation, the global lobby group for the recruitment, staffing and HR services industry.  With qualifications in economics and labour law, Charles has specialised in advising to, and representing, the recruitment and staffing industry for over 20 years.  A passionate advocate for labour market intermediaries and consultants, Charles is driven by the role professional recruitment consultants can play in inspiring people to be better through work.

• Charles on LinkedIn
• Charles on Twitter @ACharlesCameron
• RCSA website link
• RCSA on Facebook
• World Employment Confederation website link
• StaffSure website link

Connect with Mark Whitby

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Related Podcast You Might Enjoy

• TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage
• TRR#49 The REC’s Neil Carberry on the Challenges and Opportunities for Recruiters in 2021
• TRR#43 How to Transition From Contingency CV Supplier to Consultative Retained Recruiter, with Plamen Ivanoff
• TRR#8 How to Increase Your Billings with Split Fees, with Jason Elias

A successful recruiter’s mindset is not focused on closing a deal but rather on opening relationships. Indeed, recruiting is a relationship business and that is why my special guest, Jodi Kulek Mayer believes that this is the number one key to her longevity in the business. In this episode, Jodi will share how she builds relationships and how it led to her growing her IT staffing desk to 80 consultants on billing and eventually starting her own staffing firm.

Jodi is an IT staffing veteran and the founder of Clearmont Technologies, Inc. a WBENC-Certified Women's Business Enterprise. Starting in the recruitment industry in 1992, Jodi has placed hundreds of IT people both as employees and consultants at companies in the financial, consumer product, non-profit, and e-commerce industries. Many of Jodi’s clients have worked with her since the beginning of her career. In fact, many of the candidates she placed later became her clients. Jodi is also the host of Tech Talent Today, a podcast where IT professionals can get fresh ideas and inspiration on how to propel their tech career to the next level.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:30] Growing to 80 IT consultants on billing as an account manager - how did Jodi do it? [5:20] Two big reasons why Jodi prefers placing consultants rather than permanent employees.
• [10:05] Winning key accounts - Jodi tells a fun story of pitching for what eventually became the biggest account in her career. Best practices shared.
• [12:20] Moving in and becoming “part of the furniture” -- keys to building successful business relationships.
• [18:37] Breaking the “golden handcuffs” -  What made Jodi decide to build her own staffing firm? 
• [22:24] Jodi’s key advice for business longevity plus her story of how she started in 1992 and what the industry was like back then.
• [26:35] What made Jodi start her own podcast? 
• [30:30] What does the future hold for Clearmont Technologies?
• [31:40] Top tips to be successful in this business.
• [34:30] Jodi’s biggest roadblock in building her own firm and how she overcame it.

Exploring the Option of Placing Consultants

As a veteran recruiter, Jodi revealed her approach in terms of placing consultants on billing. I also asked why Jodi has a preference for placing consultants or contractors rather than permanent direct-hire employees. Are you also interested in exploring this market opportunity for your recruitment practice? Jodi shared two benefits in doing so:

• “It is like dating versus getting married” - as it is much easier to just say yes to a date than getting married. With this analogy, Jodi believes that the whole process can be very fast. 
• The biggest benefit is having a recurring revenue stream that sustains you even when times are tough.

The reasons laid out by Jodi come with a tremendous advantage. Hear more of her story and how she builds relationships to win businesses.

Breaking the Golden Handcuffs

Jodi was doing really well with her previous firm - building an excellent team and generating very high revenues. But what made her decide to step out and create her own IT staffing firm? For Jodi, it was like “breaking the golden handcuffs.” She shared how work-related stress leading to hospitalization made her realize that she was unhappy which then eventually led to her starting her own firm with the support of her husband. Her business is now up and running for eight years as of today.

As you listen to Jodi’s story, you will realize that this is a story of resilience and overcoming adversity. You may be able to relate in case you are planning to start your own business. Remember, there is never a right time or the best time to start. 

Building Relationships is the Key

Being a veteran since 1992, I asked Jodi for her top tips or keys to success in the recruitment business. For her, it was plain and simple. “For sure, number one is relationships” is how she described it. In our entire conversation, you will understand why she believes that this is important when it comes to building your business and resolving problems. Her longevity in the business can be attributed to her relationship building, and her stories of specific events prove just that.

Jodi Kulek Mayer Bio and Contact Info 

Jodi Kulek Mayer, an IT Staffing Veteran since 1992, is the founder and president of Clearmont Technologies, Inc. a WBENC-Certified Women's Business Enterprise. Her extensive career of working for staffing companies focused on corporate policies motivated her to start her own firm  with a focus on understanding client needs and a candidate’s professional and personal goals to establish right and long-term matches

Jodi is the host of Tech Talent Today, a podcast where you can get fresh ideas and inspiration on how to propel your tech career to the next level.  She speaks with IT leaders about challenges they faced and how they overcame them.

Outside of work, she enjoys skiing and scuba diving with her family.

• Jodi on LinkedIn
• TechTalentToday Podcast link
• Clearmont Technologies website link
• Clearmont on Facebook
• Clearmont on Twitter @ClearmontTech
• Clearmont on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Juliette Samson on LinkedIn
• Dig Your Well Before You're Thirsty: The Only Networking Book You'll Ever Need by Harvey Mackay

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

I love hearing success stories, don’t you? I’m especially fascinated by fast-growing recruitment companies. Alex Zoboli and Matt Nichols have a track record of successfully building teams and creating rapid growth.  In our conversation, you will hear them share the success factors that enabled them to grow a recruitment business from 50 to 200 staff in just four years.  

They also shared how they started their business during the pandemic and scaled up to 40 people in 18 months. We discussed a number of critical components in building your business for growth, such as goal setting, hiring, internal growth, and teaching moments from mistakes and failures.

Alex and Matt are the founders of Cornerstone Recruitment Japan. Cornerstone is focused on placing bi-lingual professionals in a wide range of market-leading companies across all sectors. They are one of the fastest growing recruitment companies in Japan with a team of 40 and the only recruitment firm with backing from a major investment bank in Tokyo. Prior to founding Cornerstone Recruitment Japan, they were Directors with RGF Professional Recruitment Japan for four years.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:15] Alex & Matt shared how and why they launched their business in Japan.
• [5:22] The second biggest recruitment market in the world: what is recruiting like in Japan?
• [12:30] Scaling a business from 50 to 200 in 4 years - what are the three critical success factors? 
• [16:40] Hiring their first 50 - how Alex & Matt persuaded good talents to jump onboard.
• [21:27] Adding value to inexperienced and experienced recruiters and attracting great recruiters to your business.
• [32:18] How to know if a newly hired team member will be successful? Hear Alex & Matt’s viewpoints.
• [34:40] Why go for a team player instead of a ‘lone wolf’ achiever?
• [41:00] Laying out a career path for your team.
• [45:20] Teaching moments - sharing of mistakes and learnings when hiring people.

Scaling From 50 to 200 in Four Years

After sharing what motivated them to launch their business in Japan, I asked Alex and Matt on the critical success factors when scaling a business. They are pretty much specialists when growing a recruitment business - with a proven track record of having grown a previous business from 50 to 200 staff in four years! 

Matt said, “For me the key is you gotta set the goal of what you want to achieve for the business really early, and you really got to commit to it. It’s got to stay part of the fabric of the business every single step of the way.” Matt added, “The other thing for me also is, your first 50 people are absolutely crucial if you’re gonna scale a big business. Your first 50 people should contain most of your future senior leadership team.” 

Alex shared a third factor, “I think in general you have to have the ambition to do it. I think not everybody wants to have a big business. Having a big business and scaling in a short period of time is extremely stressful and a lot of hard work… You’re doing it really because you really want to do it. I think that is our success factor. The fact that we just really want to do it, that’s it.”

My takeaway is that they went into scaling their business by having a very specific vision that they want to achieve from day one. Knowing that it is going to be challenging, stressful and difficult, for Alex and Matt it is entirely deciding that they want to make that commitment and make it happen. 

Establishing the Dynamics and Finding the Team Player 

When growing your business, it is important to establish the dynamics of your team. Part of choosing a talent is to not only consider their performance but rather how he or she can affect the entire dynamics with the tenured members. You would want people who are ambitious and want to achieve and those who want to be team players, but those two don’t always go hand in hand. So, I asked Matt and Alex on how they would usually deal with this element. Matt explained, “We would avoid the lone wolf type of person. They are pretty easy to spot… Some of the top billers from a competitor, they’re not a team player at all and those are lone wolves. We’re not interested, we can do without the billing basically.” 

Matt and Alex mentioned some of the characteristics of who they would consider as team players:

• Those who are not afraid to share leads
• Those who are happy when their colleagues do well
• Those who realize that they increase their chances of individually succeeding by working as a team.

In line with the above, Matt further elaborates on the characteristics of a smooth, functional and high-performing team. 

Alex Zoboli & Matt Nicholls Bio and Contact Info 

Alex and Matt are the founders of Cornerstone Recruitment Japan, the only recruitment firm with backing from a major investment bank in Tokyo and the fastest growing recruitment company in Japan. Matt has been in the recruitment industry for more than 15 years, starting as a Director with Nichole Lindsay in 2006. Alex started as a recruitment consultant with StaffBank recruitment in 2009. Both of them are now Managing Directors of Cornerstone Recruitment Japan and are aiming to be a major player in the Tokyo recruitment market and we are doing it by hiring the best recruiters in Japan and overseas.

• Matt on LinkedIn
• Alex on LinkedIn
• Cornerstone Search Japan website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

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Recruitment is one of the most difficult sales jobs because we are placing human beings and not just products. Building a high-performing sales team is challenging, yet critical to growing a successful recruitment business. How do you hire recruiters who can sell - or at least who have the potential? How do you create a culture of high sales performance? 

These questions will be answered by my special guest, Ian Moyse. Ian is an award-winning sales leader and the Chief Revenue Officer of OneUp Sales, a sales analytics and gamification platform for recruitment companies who want to optimize their team’s performance. 

In this episode, he shares key insights on building candidate relationships, hiring for success, and creating a culture of high performance for your sales and recruitment team. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• Candidate relationships are key to your success. Hear Ian’s advice based on his experience of working with recruiters both as a candidate and a hiring manager.
• Hiring to build a high-performing sales team and why you should focus on behaviour.
• Six takeaways on what to look for when interviewing for own your team.
• What if the interview went well but the candidate did not do well on the job? Simple ways of assessing if someone is likely to deliver results.
• Other considerations we need to look at when assessing a candidate post covid.
• KPIs - how do you create a culture of high sales performance without micromanaging people?
• What are the right metrics to track in a recruitment business? Hear 3 takeaways.

The Good and Bad in Recruitment from a Candidate’s Perspective

Ian and I started off our conversation with his perspective on the good and the bad in recruitment from his experience of being a candidate. He is also a hiring manager which gives him a fair and honest view of what he sees as the best and the worst in recruiting. His insights should be an eye-opener for us in the industry as he shared contrasts on his experience - how some treated him as an individual while others treated him as a product. He shared how some made him feel confident as a candidate while some made him feel that they were just after the commission. Indeed a good way to start off because this is related to the other topics that we talked about especially in hiring and building a high-selling team.

Candidate Relationships is Your Key to Success

You will hear Ian’s advice on how to establish good candidate relationships and why it is very important when forming a high-performing team. Here are my takeaways from our discussion:

1. Remember that the candidate is a human being and not a product. 
2. How they remember you has a knock on effect on your long-term success. 
3. Give feedback and provide value - even to those you decide not to hire.

What To Look for During an Interview

There may be different criteria that you look for when assessing if someone is a fit for your organisation. Ian also shared what he looks for when interviewing and why he is really keen on looking at behaviour as a primary factor. Here is a list of what I heard:

• Did they get in touch prior to the interview?
• Were they prepared? Did they research the people they were meeting and the company itself?
• How well did they build rapport?
• Did they bring intelligent questions?
• Did they take notes during the interview?
• Did they treat it as a two-way conversation?

We also discussed other considerations you may need to look at especially on mental health because of the pandemic. Also, how to avoid hiring candidates who perform well at interview but not on the job. Hear Ian’s practical way of assessing whether a candidate is likely to deliver.

Ian Moyse Bio and Contact Info

Ian Moyse, Chief Revenue Officer, OneUp Sales is a long time and award winning Sales Leader. He was Awarded the accolade of BESMA UK Sales Director of the year and in 2019 & 2020 and was also listed in the top 50 Sales Keynote speakers by Top Sales World. Ian is a judge on many sales awards and has grown four companies through to exit, advising many others as a non-exec along the way.

• Ian on LinkedIn
• Ian on Facebook
• Ian on YouTube
• Ian on Twitter @imoyse
• OneUp Sales website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR#73 Redesigning the Way Work Works Post-Covid, with Bruce Morton

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What are the benefits of producing a podcast, a video series and an annual salary survey? To many recruiters that sounds like a lot of work. Is it really worth all the effort?

My special guest, Sean Rigsby, believes that the combination of inbound marketing strategies position you as the ‘go to’ recruiter in your space. The salary survey, for example, provides valuable market data for your clients and candidates. It also helps to build your brand and generate inbound leads.

In this interview, Sean revealed his process for researching, publishing and promoting his firm’s salary survey as well as other brand-building strategies. He also shared practical and golden approaches to making your life easier by working smarter. You will also hear the challenges he had when he shifted to an engaged model and the payoff he is getting now.

Sean is the Managing Partner of Rigsby Search Group (RSG) founded in 2012 and recognized by Forbes as one of America’s best-recruiting firms. RSG specializes in the environmental industry and has made over 1200 placements nationwide.

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [1:15] What motivated Sean to start a podcast?
• [6:44] Ways to broaden your brand - doing a salary survey and getting good data.
• [20:18] Sean’s “interview tip of the day” videos and how this approach can help your brand.
• [28:51] Are you treating your time like the money it is worth?
• [42:30] Shifting from contingency to an engaged model after 23 years - the risks and rewards
• [57:30] How the Pinnacle Society helped Sean when he started his own firm.
• [58:33] Mistakes and learnings when starting your own recruitment business.

Building Your Brand

People are more likely to do business with you if they know you. That is why marketing and building your brand are important aspects of running your business. Sean shared the specifics of how they do it at Rigsby Search Group. For them, it is not just spreading awareness but also becoming thought leaders and adding value to the industry. Here are the takeaways

• Podcast - Sean revealed what motivated him to start a podcast and the benefits they are getting from it.
• Salary Survey - Definitely value-adding to your community, hear how to capture the data and get higher engagement.
• Interview Tip of the Day - this video making process not only helps your candidates but spreads brand awareness as well. Sean shared their best practices.

Working Hard and Working Smart

One of the key topics that Sean shared with me is how he makes his life easier by delegating tasks that he hates, allowing him to focus more on more complex tasks in his business. His guiding principle is based on the question of “Are you treating your time like the money it is worth?” 

Sean admitted, “I wasn’t very good at delegating...I would try to do everything.” He then shared how and when you can hand off some tasks to someone else. He shared his thought process on which tasks to delegate. As he summarized, “Which ones I hate and what is the quickest turnaround.” Here are some examples of the time-consuming tasks he is now effectively delegating:

• Research - hear how he trained his admin to handle candidate sourcing.
• Taking references and making follow-ups - this one is brilliant, I’ve never come across anyone else who delegates this task effectively.

Shifting From Contingency to an Engaged Model

After roughly 23 years in his recruitment career, Sean decided to shift to an engaged or retained search model. He was skeptical at first as he initially felt that it is not fit for his specific industry niche. He shared that he even lost a number of clients when he started asking for part of the fee up front. But what made him decide? And what are the key benefits he is getting now? Sean shared valuable insights from his own experience transitioning to retained/engaged search.

Sean Rigsby Bio and Contact Info

Sean P. Rigsby, CPC, is the Managing Partner of Rigsby Search Group, LLC. He formed the company in 2012 to meet the marketplace’s need for a more consultative approach to helping both clients and candidates. He has developed many long-term relationships with both clients and candidates that extend nationwide and include all U.S. markets, for a mix of clients from the ENR Top 100 to smaller boutique type firms.

Sean is a Member of The Pinnacle Society, an organization of 80 of the highest volume recruiters in North America.  Sean is also an active member and has assumed leadership roles within a number of organizations, namely: Environmental Professionals Organization of Connecticut and the Environmental Business Council of New England – Connecticut Chapter. He’s also been a speaker at various conferences for organizations such as: American Institute of Professional Geologists, Association of Environmental and Engineering Geologists, Society for Women Environmental Professionals – Massachusetts Chapter, EnviroExpo of Boston and the University of Connecticut.

Sean finds a strong calling to give back. Recently he became a Member of the Patient and Family Advisory Council for Bristol Hospital. He has Co-Chaired and led the Recruitment and Retention section for the Saint Paul School Board in Kensington, CT. In 2010, Sean was honoured when he received the “HOPES Volunteer of the Year Award” by the Archdiocese of Hartford.

Prior to founding Rigsby Search Group in 2012, Sean spent 19 years at RJS Associates, one of the top search firms on the East Coast headquartered in Hartford, CT. While working at RJS, Sean received numerous awards including: “Consultant of the Year” – 3 times, “Environmental Recruiter of the Year” – 17 times and “Rookie of the Year” – 1993. When he finished his career at RJS Associates, he was a Partner and was ranked as one of the top three highest producing recruiters within the history of the company.

• Sean on LinkedIn
• Rigsby Search Group website link
• Rigsby Search Group’s podcast link
• Rigsby Search Group’s Salary Survey
• Rigsby Search Group’s Referral Program
• Rigsby Search Group on Facebook
• Rigsby Search Group on YouTube

People and Resources Mentioned

• Joe Rice on LinkedIn 
• Cameron Boyd  on LinkedIn 
• Rich Rosen on LinkedIn
• James Caan on LinkedIn 
• Danny Cahill on LinkedIn
• The Entrepreneur Roller Coaster by Darren Hardy
• Pinnacle Society website link

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR #81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs
• TRR #67 Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen
• TRR #55 How to Build (or Rebuild) Your Recruitment Firm to 7-Figures From Scratch, with Joe Rice
• TRR #45 Doing Things Differently – Objectivity, Flat Fees and Getting Rid of Commission Schemes, with Cameron Boyd

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What do the most successful recruitment business owners have in common? I can’t think of anyone better qualified to answer that question than James Caan. 

In this interview, James and I discussed the challenges and opportunities for recruiters in a post-pandemic environment, and what it takes to achieve extraordinary success in our industry. James delivered massive value for aspiring entrepreneurs, including advice based on his own experience, plus insights from his unique perspective as an investor in the recruitment sector.

James is a serial entrepreneur, investor, philanthropist, and a former panelist on the hit TV series Dragon’s Den. James founded two recruitment companies with combined revenues of over a billion pounds, Alexander Mann Solutions and Humana International. In 2004, he set up his own private equity firm Hamilton Bradshaw, and in 2014 he launched Recruitment Entrepreneur. To date, Recruitment Entrepreneur has enabled 32 founders to launch and scale 22 recruitment businesses. 

Episode Outline and Highlights

• [2:08] Key challenges and opportunities for recruiters in the current market and post-pandemic environment.
• [12:11] Why recruiters should broaden their horizons and consider international markets.
• [14:28] Preventing counter-offers - James’ advice on candidate qualification.
• [21:30] Starting a successful recruitment firm in the current market
• [23:08] The 10 characteristics that are critical to your success when starting or scaling your recruitment company. 
• [33:20] Attracting & retaining great talent - how to persuade the best people to join your recruitment firm. 
• [43:40] James’ thought process on how to assess someone’s drive / self-motivation
• [48:36] The single best piece of advice James has ever received. 

Post-Covid Environment Challenges and Opportunities

Considering where we are and what we’ve been through the past 12 months, I asked James for his observations on the key challenges and opportunities for recruiters in the current market. James shared live experiences of the challenges the recruiters in his portfolio companies have  faced for the past year. 

James’ advice for recruiters included four very specific suggestions:

1. The impact of internal recruitment and the need to move up the value chain. Internal recruitment is growing rapidly and typically most positions below £50k salaries are the ones being easily filled with internal recruitment. What does this mean for your recruitment business? You need to elevate yourself above the 50k-salary and start working on more senior positions.
2. Specialization and focusing on a niche market is important, but in order to grow, you should start thinking laterally by expanding horizontally across your client base. Instead of being super-specialised within a particular function, e.g. Tax, focus on maximizing the value of each client relationship.
3. The market has quickly become highly candidate driven. This creates tremendous opportunities for recruiters but also certain challenges. The epidemic of counter-offers points to the need for recruiters to re-learn the craft of candidate qualification and improve their skills at managing the placement process.
4. Out of necessity, recruiters were very creative last year in terms of uncovering new opportunities - e.g. expanding into new geographic territories.  Let us not lose the element of strength that we created due to the pandemic.  

Is Now the Best Time to Start Your Recruitment Business?

Are you hesitating to start or scale your recruitment business because of the uncertainty created by the pandemic and volatility as the market recovers?

I was curious to know whether James thought it was harder or easier to start or scale a recruitment business nowadays.  His reply was, “I think starting a recruitment business is not about the market timing. I think it’s about you. Success in our industry is about your passion, your drive, your conviction, your belief, your expertise.” He added, “When I see somebody succeeding, it’s rarely because of the market, it’s rarely because of the sector, it’s generally because of them.”

How to Start and Scale a Successful Recruitment Company

What is your definition of success?  As James pointed out in our conversation, success means something different to everybody.  

Not everyone wants to grow a large recruitment company.  Many owners would be perfectly content running a lifestyle business with a small team of 3-4 people that generates a million pounds per year, for example. James highlighted the fact that very few recruitment companies grow beyond 10 people.  That’s absolutely fine provided you understand that type of business has no exit value because it requires the owner’s personal involvement to sustain it.  

On the other hand, if your goal is to scale your recruitment business, that requires a different set of skills and qualities. According to James, there are at least 10 different characteristics you must possess (or be willing to develop) in order to achieve extraordinary growth.

Toward the top of James’ list was the ability to attract great talent and persuade them to join your team. Unless you can bring the right people on board, you’ll never be able to scale a recruitment firm.  

To hear James’ advice on how to attract and hire great recruiters, and discover the other 9 characteristics of highly successful recruitment entrepreneurs, click the “play” button and listen to the podcast.

James Caan Bio and Contact Info

James founded private equity firm Hamilton Bradshaw in 2004 and joined the panel of heavyweight investors for BBC’s Dragons' Den in 2007. His main focus is on charity work, current investments, growing Hamilton Bradshaw and mentoring entrepreneurs to help ensure their success.

With a passion for building businesses and backing talented people, he has been building and selling businesses since 1985 and thinks it is important to invest in people rather than just products or businesses. James is a great believer that it is people who create a successful business through their passion and conviction, with a firm belief that “It’s your attitude, not your aptitude that determines your altitude”.

• James’ website link (You may find and download his audiobook via this link)
• James on LinkedIn
• James on Twitter @jamescaan
• James on Facebook
• James on Instagram
• Hamilton Bradshaw Group website link

People and Resources Mentioned

• Abid Hamid on LinkedIn

• Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call
• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby
• Mark on Facebook
• Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

• TRR # 69 Recruitment Legends: Leadership and Life Lessons From 40 Years in the Global Recruiting Industry, with Doug Bugie
• TRR # 48 Recruitment Entrepreneur: How to Start-Up and Scale an “Exit-able” Recruitment Business, with Abid Hamid

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