Most product-led companies hit a wall when they try to add sales-led growth. Too often, the motions clash, teams misalign, and growth stalls. So, how do you scale revenue without sacrificing your product-led roots?

In this episode of The Revenue Leadership Podcast, Kyle Norton sits down with John Eitel, former Global VP of Sales & Success at Canva and CRO at Demandbase, about how to successfully layer a sales-led motion on top of a product-led foundation. Drawing from his experience at WP Engine and Canva, John shares how to identify the right signals to introduce sales, validate demand through customer conversations, and build a commercially viable offering without cannibalizing PLG momentum. He also reflects on how the CRO role is evolving in today’s market—and why adaptability, experimentation, and cross-functional alignment are more important than ever.

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday:

https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges:

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Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast:

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Key Moments:

(00:00) Introduction

(08:51)Commercialization Strategies for SLG

(12:13) Customer Success and Support in SLG

(14:56) Pricing and Packaging for Enterprise Solutions

(17:52) Building the Sales Team for Growth

(20:52) Hiring the Right Sales Reps for Success

(30:48) Understanding User Adoption and Buyer Dynamics

(35:24) Team Building Strategies: Lessons from WP Engine and Canva

(37:23) Key Roles in Early Team Development

(42:54) Metrics for Revenue Leaders: Signals to Invest or Pull Back

(45:42) Understanding Sales-Led Growth and Incremental Value

(48:13) Balancing Sales and Self-Service Models

(51:54) Product Differentiation for Market Segments

(59:03) Aligning Sales, Marketing, and Product

(01:10:02) The Disparity in Revenue Talent

(01:13:00) Framework for Company Selection

(01:18:26) Optimizing for Company Quality

(01:21:10) What Separates Good from Great CROs?

(01:23:03) Advice for Young Leaders

(01:24:26) Lessons Learned in Team Dynamics

(01:26:26) Insights on Mental Health and Leadership

In today’s episode, Kyle sits down with Florin Tatulea, Head of Sales Development at Common Room, to discuss the evolution of outbound sales in the context of AI and technology. Florin shares insights on the importance of understanding signals and intent in sales, the changing profile of sales reps, and the role of RevOps in strategizing outbound efforts. The discussion highlights the need for collaboration across departments and the importance of sales reps mastering AI tools to effectively engage with prospects. 

They also explore the changing role of sales development leaders, the hiring process, and the significance of compensation in retaining talent. The discussion emphasizes the need for a diverse skill set within sales teams and the importance of continuous learning and adaptation in a rapidly changing environment.

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Moments:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:49) Understanding Outbound Sales and AI's Role

(08:38) Defining Signals and Intent in Sales

(10:58) The Evolution of Outbound Sales: From 1.0 to 3.0

(14:47) The Profile of an Outbound 3.0 Sales Rep

(32:35) Building Champions in Rev Ops

(38:03) Leveraging AI for Account Insights

(39:53) Human Touch in AI Outreach

(45:52) Innovative Approaches to Outbound Sales

(49:57) The Evolution of Networking and Referrals

(01:01:59) Teaching and Sharing Insights with Prospects

(01:05:04) The Role of Sales Development Leaders

(01:09:53) Hiring and Developing Effective Sales Teams

(01:15:08) The Importance of Compensation and Career Paths in Sales

Kevin "KD" Dorsey is the Chief Revenue Officer at Finally, an all-in-one accounting and finance platform that recently raised $200 million in Series B funding. KD joins the show to discuss real-world examples of how he uses AI in his day-to-day: from developing internal AI agents to evaluating his team's calls.

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Moments:

(00:00) - Introduction and Podcast Overview

(01:22) - Guest Introduction: Kevin Dorsey

(02:00) - Diving into AI and GTM

(02:51) - AI in Sales: Practical Applications

(06:36) - Building AI Tools Internally

(14:21) - Call Scoring and AI Coaching

(20:44) - Issue Diagnosis with AI

(33:08) - Leveraging AI for Documentation and Training

(35:36) - Choosing Between Building and Buying AI Solutions

(40:28) - The Decision to Step Away from Founding

(41:01) - Challenges in Building AI Companies

(42:08) - The Future of SaaS Companies

(43:29) - Leveraging AI for Business Success

(46:02) - Learning and Adapting with AI

(46:50) - Exploring AI Tools and Resources

(58:04) - Evaluating AI Vendors

(01:03:04) - Personal Productivity with AI

(01:13:42) - Final Thoughts and Advice

Kyle is joined by Ryan Milligan, VP of Sales, Marketing, and RevOps at QuotaPath, to discuss sales commission planning. They dive into the essentials of creating effective comp plans that align with business goals, the importance of incremental incentives, and how to drive desirable sales behavior. Ryan shares insights from his diverse background and how QuotaPath navigates commission planning to ensure high performance and retention. The conversation also touches on key aspects such as measuring incrementally, balancing incentives, diagnosing ineffective plans, and trends in the current market.

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key Moments:

(01:09) - Meet Ryan Milligan: From Data Science to Sales Leadership

(02:58) - The Path from Rev Ops to CRO

(05:40) - Sales Commission Strategy: Ownership and Design

(12:56) - Aligning Comp Plans with Business Metrics

(24:01) - Designing Effective Comp Plans: A Step-by-Step Guide

(33:47) - Testing and Measuring Incrementality in Comp Plans

(41:32) - Building Effective Quotas

(52:34) - Setting Realistic and Motivating Targets

(01:02:30) - Common Pitfalls in Commission Plans

(01:12:18) - Key Traits of Great Revenue Leaders

(01:18:38) - Final Thoughts and Takeaways

What does it take to go from zero to your first enterprise customer? For Cresta, it meant their CEO and CTO becoming interns at Intuit—and their engineering team living in an Airbnb next to the call center they were trying to disrupt.

In this episode, Kyle talks with Alex Cramer, CRO of Cresta, about the unglamorous grind of cold-starting in enterprise, why today’s deals demand more consensus (and skill) than ever, and how to scale a team when every deal feels like a bespoke knife fight.

Plus, Alex’s hardest-won lessons—from equity pitfalls to why endurance separates good CROs from great ones.

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Want more from Topline?

Tune into the Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them. And don't forget to join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday.

Matt Braley joined InvoiceCloud as the third AE, rose to CRO, and led the company from early growth through a successful IPO, and ultimately a $4B acquisition by Vista Equity Partners. In this episode, Matt reveals how he grew their alliance ecosystem from 15 to 50 partners—ultimately generating over half of the company's revenue. You'll discover the VECTOR framework he developed for qualifying partnerships, avoiding "paper partnerships," and creating true strategic alignment.

Whether you're considering technical alliances or wondering if partnerships are right for your business model, Matt provides actionable insights on when, why, and how to build alliances that deliver real revenue impact.

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Want more from Topline?

Tune into the Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them. And don't forget to join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Subscribe to the Topline Newsletter to get the latest industry developments and emerging go-to-market trends delivered to your inbox every Thursday.

What should CROs really be looking for when evaluating their next move? In this episode, Kyle sits down with Neal Patel, CRO at Crunchbase, to unpack how revenue leaders can vet companies like investors—by looking past vanity metrics and digging into signals that actually matter. They cover how to evaluate long-term viability, the importance of alignment with executive peers, and why being asked to "just run your old playbook" is a red flag.

The conversation also dives deep into how AI is disrupting traditional go-to-market models, how Crunchbase is using predictive data to reshape its strategy, and why the GTM stack of the future might be smaller—and smarter.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Neal Patel and Crunchbase

(02:28) - State of the Market and AI's Impact

(11:01) - Navigating Macro Conditions as a CRO

(14:26) - Crunchbase's Shift Towards Predictive Analytics

(23:27) - AI's Transformative Role in Go-to-Market Strategies

(30:12) - Future of GTM: Embracing AI and Relationship Building

(36:18) - The Importance of Team Innovation

(41:55) - Navigating Company Selection as a CRO

(46:05) - Building Relationships in Leadership

(52:15) - Evaluating Market Potential and Company Goals

(57:05) - Understanding AI's Impact on Business Strategy

(01:01:00) - Red Flags in Company Selection

(01:03:51) - Key Traits of Successful CROs

How do you transition from product-led growth to sales-led growth without losing momentum? In this episode, Kyle Norton talks with Andrew Johnston, Head of Sales at Superhuman, about how the company is evolving its go-to-market strategy to win larger B2B deals. They discuss the key challenges of moving upmarket, the differences between PLG and SLG sales motions, and how Superhuman is leveraging data and AI to scale. Andrew also shares insights on building the right sales team, adapting the product for enterprise buyers, and what revenue leaders need to consider when layering in a sales motion.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them.

You're invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - The Email Problem: A Universal Challenge

(09:49) - Superhuman: Revolutionizing Email Productivity

(19:47) - Transitioning from PLG to SLG: A New Sales Approach

(30:04) - Building Blocks for Sales Success: Data and Team Dynamics

(30:32) - Personalization in Sales Outreach

(31:31) - Core Pillars of Sales Strategy

(32:27) - Common Pitfalls in Sales-Led Growth

(33:25) - Building a Sales Culture at Superhuman

(37:17) - Leveraging AI in Sales Processes

(42:43) - Skills for Sales Reps in the Age of AI

(49:58) - Navigating AI-Generated Communication

(56:39) - Lessons in Sales Leadership

What does it take to lead revenue in a private equity-backed company? In this episode, Kyle Norton talks with Vanessa Brangwyn, CRO at Motus, about the key differences between VC and PE environments, how PE firms drive efficiency and profitability, and what revenue leaders need to succeed. She also shares insights on integrating go-to-market strategies post-acquisition and managing a PE-backed board.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Vanessa Brangwyn and Achievers' Journey
(03:13) - Transitioning from VC to PE: The Achievers Experience
(06:03) - Navigating Public Company Dynamics
(08:56) - The Spin-Out: Achievers' New Chapter
(12:06) - Exploring the Private Equity Landscape
(14:56) - CRO Insights: PE vs. VC Dynamics
(18:10) - Shared Learnings in Private Equity
(20:46) - The Role of Structure in Team Dynamics
(24:05) - Profitability vs. Growth: Understanding PE Goals
(26:48) - Strategic Decision-Making in PE
(29:55) - Efficiency Metrics in Private Equity
(37:59) - Tactical Metrics for Sales Efficiency
(40:52) - Understanding Board Engagement in PE vs VC
(44:42) - Navigating Incentives and Decision-Making in Boards
(47:06) - Leveraging Data for Effective Board Management
(49:46) - Lessons from Private Equity for Venture-Backed CROs
(51:10) - Strategic Rationale Behind Acquisitions
(56:38) - Integrating Go-To-Market Strategies Post-Acquisition
(01:01:11) - Customer Success Insights for CROs
(01:05:42) - The Role of Authenticity in Leadership
(01:10:21) - Advice for Emerging Leaders
(01:12:20) - Lessons Learned from Leadership Experiences

Great revenue leaders aren’t just sales experts—they’re world-class problem solvers. But how do you separate signal from noise, diagnose the right issues, and make decisions that drive long-term success? 

In this episode of The Revenue Leadership Podcast, Ashley Grech, CRO at Xero, joins Kyle to break down her framework for identifying, prioritizing, and solving complex revenue challenges. She shares how revenue leaders can balance instinct with data, avoid limiting beliefs that stall innovation, and use the driver tree framework to diagnose revenue bottlenecks. Ashley also explains why prioritization is the key to unlocking scale, how decision-making frameworks can accelerate growth, and what she’s learned from scaling global go-to-market strategies at Xero and Square.

Thanks for tuning in! Want more content from Pavilion?

New episodes of The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton drop every Wednesday.

Stay ahead with the latest industry developments, emerging go-to-market trends, and valuable benchmarking data. Subscribe to Topline Newsletter for expert insights from Asad Zaman every Thursday.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Catch full-length episodes every Sunday and bite-sized mini-episodes every Thursday, where our hosts sit down with top B2B tech leaders to unpack their biggest challenges—and how they overcame them.

Your’re invited! Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders, share insights, and keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Key chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Problem Solving in Revenue Leadership

(03:11) - The Importance of Problem Solving

(06:03) - Frameworks for Problem Identification

(08:56) - Utilizing Driver Trees for Diagnostics

(11:55) - Data-Driven Decision Making

(15:10) - Prioritization of Problems

(17:57) - Balancing Urgency and Importance

(20:54) - Sourcing Information from the Team

(23:49) - Navigating Customer Feedback

(27:08) - The Role of Data in Solutioning

(30:06) - Finding the Best Solution

(32:50) - Conclusion and Key Takeaways

(44:18) - Principled Problem Solving

(51:38) - Organizing Principles for Success

(56:03) - Teaching and Scaling Principles

(57:31) - Market Expansion Strategies

(01:06:30) - Timing for International Expansion

(01:09:17) - Channel Diversification Insights

(01:12:43) - Overcoming Limiting Beliefs

(01:17:14) - Qualities of a Great CRO