The Revenue Leadership Podcast with Kyle Norton

Aviv Canaani, CRO at DataRails, joins Kyle Norton to break down exactly how to build a highly predictable, inbound-led revenue machine.

This episode details the transition from a purely outbound sales motion to a scalable inbound engine driven by demand generation and organic brand building. You will discover how to align marketing and sales, engineer an efficient B2B SaaS GTM strategy, and leverage AI tools to drastically increase pipeline generation and AE productivity.

Key Takeaways:

• Account Executives should focus entirely on closing deals, not prospecting, to maximize per-rep efficiency and win rates.

• Revenue leaders must treat GTM as a math equation, balancing pipeline volume, conversion rates, and AE capacity to forecast accurately.

• Marketing must be held accountable for closed-won revenue because "...you don't count assists if the shooting guard didn't make the shot."

• AI tools like Momentum and Clay can fully automate CRM updates and lead qualification, freeing reps to focus on active selling.

🎧 Tune into Topline Podcast (our other show!), the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast

📩 Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter

🤝 Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack

Chapters:

01:23 Path to the CRO Seat

05:13 Outbound to 90% Inbound

08:20 Investing in Organic Brand

12:33 Marketer Running Sales

16:39 AEs Should Never Prospect

21:13 Real Math Behind Quotas

27:31 Building Predictable Revenue

33:38 Using AI for CRM Data

43:47 AI Use Cases in GTM

51:58 Future of the CRO Role

55:05 Books for GTM Leaders

Most revenue leaders see a missed number and immediately jump to a solution: more training, new SPIFFs, or pricing changes. Product leaders isolate variables and solve for root causes.

Usha Iyer (Chief Customer & Growth Officer, President - US @ Hivebright) brings a developer's rigor, and a product leader's clarity to GTM. She explains why you should treat your GTM strategy like a product roadmap: test small, validate with data, and only scale what's proven to work.

Highlights include:

• Input vs. Output: Why chasing results without fixing process inputs increases failure ratesThe SWAT Team Model: The safer way to scale processes
• Churn Forensics: How to use control groups to diagnose retention issues (hint: it's rarely just pricing).
• Friction Hunting: Stop selling the "happy path" and how to get at the truth.

Plus a lot more. And thanks for tuning in! Catch new episodes every Wednesday.

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction: Usha Iyer's journey from engineering to revenue

03:52 Transitioning from product management to go-to-market leadership

07:34 The difference between winning in product versus sales

08:17 Identifying hidden customer friction points that data misses

12:19 How revenue leaders should communicate with product teams

13:36 Applying a product mindset to the sales process

15:56 Input-driven product development versus output-driven sales

21:48 Using data patterns and control sets to diagnose churn

34:46 Running hypothesis-driven experiments in GTM teams

37:39 Building data structures to track the customer journey

43:08 Experimenting with pricing and packaging strategies

46:02 Integrating onboarding directly into the product experience

52:00 Using SWAT teams to pilot new initiatives

56:16 Creating a culture of psychological safety for experimentation

01:01:05 Rapid fire questions and career advice

Crescendo went from zero to $100M ARR in under two years. And today's guest, CRO Michelle Donnelly, is leading the revenue team.

In a market where every AI competitor claims the exact same capabilities, Michelle argues that "trust me" sales tactics don't work anymore, and what her team is doing instead. She explains why she banned traditional sales demos in favor of building functional prototypes using prospect data (sometimes within 24 hours). Michelle also breaks down the transition to outcome-based pricing and how she she's working to compress new rep ramp time.

All this, and a ton more!

Thanks for tuning in. Catch new episodes every Wednesday.

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

01:39 Introduction to Michelle Donnelly and Crescendo

04:54 Leaving Salesforce for a risky hardware startup

11:25 Leveraging your network to spot market trends

16:18 Navigating pivots and finding product-market fit

19:44 Selling amidst the noise of the AI market

25:50 The challenge of simplifying complex messaging

30:45 Strategic priorities for scaling revenue teams

33:18 Replacing standard demos with "show me" solutions

35:50 Building trust by becoming your customer's customer

40:21 Balancing high-level strategy with frontline realities

43:02 Maintaining focus with the rule of three

45:09 Using internal AI to accelerate rep onboarding

48:23 Rapid fire: Traits of great revenue leade

As EVP of Sales and CS at Insight Partners, Jeremey advises over 500 B2B SaaS companies. In this episode, he reveals why the top 10% of performers are actually expanding their outbound teams, not cutting them.

And we cover a ton, including:

• The Outbound Paradox: Why winning companies are doubling down on SDRs while everyone else pulls back.

• Build vs. Buy: Why purchasing point solutions right now is a "risky business" (and the case for building your own).

• The Great Consolidation: How AEs are absorbing the SDR function and what it means for your org chart.

• The CRO Differentiator: The one trait that separates good revenue leaders from the truly great.

Thanks for tuning in. Catch new episodes every Wednesday.

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction and Jeremey Donovan's Career Journey

03:59 AI Adoption: Disillusionment vs. Reality

06:28 Shifting From Bottom-Up to Top-Down AI Innovation

08:29 Navigating Governance and the "AI Czar" Role

13:58 Why Disciplined Execution Trumps AI Tactics

16:11 AI for Performance Reviews and Real-Time Feedback

21:45 The Rise of "Build" and Agentic Coding

27:33 Augmentation, Outbound Sales, and Human Effort

41:40 The Build vs. Buy Debate in RevTech

52:13 Realistic Expectations for AI Productivity Gains

59:13 The Future of SDR and Solutions Engineer Roles

01:03:12 Redesigning Processes and Unbundling Roles for AI

01:13:06 Preserving Critical Thinking in an AI World

01:19:05 Quick Fire: Leadership, Hiring, and Hard Lessons

Jordan Crawford (Founder @ Blueprint GTM) returns with a reality check for GTM leaders: The ChatGPT era is over. We're entering the season of Claude Code. That means you can move past static prompts and brittle workflows. We are now in a world where autonomous agents write code, execute complex goals, and learn recursively. Jordan breaks down how to set up local environments where context compounds over time, allowing you to deploy "infinite interns" against your most manual processes.

A few of the topics we cover:

The 3 Eras of GTM AI: Why we've graduated from ChatGPT (text) and Clay (linear workflows) to Claude Code (autonomous engineering).

Adapt or Die: Jordan shares some benchmarks of the absurd growth that's possible in specific areas

Atomic Leverage: How to identify the tasks in your sales org that agents can execute at scale.

COUPON CODES:

Get 10% off AutoClaygent.com with code NortonKnows. No limit on redemptions, but the code expires Feb 28th, 2026. Get 50% off your own GTM Playbook with code KyleKnows (limited to the first 50 customers only) available at https://playbooks.blueprintgtm.com Contact Jordan at https://linkedin.com/in/jordancrawford if you have any issues.

Thanks for tuning in. Catch new episodes every Wednesday.

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Jordan Crawford and Claude Code

02:46 Defining Claude Code and Agentic Capabilities

04:47 Real-World Example: Automating Manual Enrichment

08:17 How Claude Code Differs from ChatGPT and Gemini

11:12 Building Compounding Context in Local Folders

15:23 The Three Eras: ChatGPT, Clay, and Claude Code

19:09 Recursive Improvements and Autonomous Agents

26:08 Claude for Work vs. Terminal-Based Claude Code

28:06 Understanding Plan Mode and Sub-Agent Workflows

37:05 The CRO's Role in Identifying Automatable Tasks

40:06 Scaling Atomic Tasks for Massive Productivity Gains

46:54 Developing Technical Taste and AI Intuition

51:49 The Critical Role of Context and Integration

58:44 Building an AI Chief of Staff for Decision Making

75:40 How to Install and Start Using Claude Code

Tyler Will (VP RevOps, Intercom) breaks down how Intercom overhauled its go-to-market engine after shifting to AI-first products.

What we cover:

- Why too many revenue leaders obsess over success metrics but ignore the inputs that actually drive them

- The specific comp plan changes Intercom made when moving from seats to usage-based pricing... including giving reps MRR credit for overages without forcing awkward contract conversations

- How post-sales motions fundamentally change when you're monetizing resolutions instead of seats

- Tyler's four principles for comp plans that actually work

Also discussed: When to do a real comp overhaul vs. minor tweaks, why RevOps teams are getting bigger before they get smaller, and using Claude Code to query Snowflake directly.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction and Guest Background

01:59 Shifting Focus From Success Metrics to Input Metrics

06:06 AI Literacy Required for Modern Revenue Leaders

09:24 Selecting Metrics Without Micromanaging Behavior

17:01 Intercom's Internal and GTM AI Transformation

20:01 Shifting to Resolution-Based Pricing Models

25:46 Evolving the CSM Role for Consumption

28:53 Adapting Compensation Plans for Usage-Based Revenue

33:52 Core Principles for Variable Compensation Design

44:37 Aligning Compensation Strategy With Product Roadmaps

52:00 Restructuring RevOps and Hiring GTM Engineers

56:44 Automating RevOps Tasks With Cloud Code

01:05:58 Impact of AI on SDR and Success Teams

01:09:10 Specific Internal AI Use Cases at Intercom

01:15:20 Quick Fire: Good vs. Great CROs and Advice

Jason Lemkin (Founder & CEO @ SaaStr) returns to talk about replacing his sales team with 20+ AI agents.

What you'll learn in this episode:

- Why Jason stopped paying six-figure SDRs who ghost—and what he built instead

- The 70,000 AI-sent emails that drove 15% of SaaStr London revenue

- How to pick your first AI tool (hint: do a 2-vendor bakeoff, not 10)

- Why Salesforce is suddenly the hub every agent needs

- The "incognito test" every GTM leader should run on their own website

(And a whole lot more!)

Thanks for tuning in. Catch new episodes every Wednesday.

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:49 Introduction and Jason's Investment Philosophy

04:07 Evaluating Founders and the "Why Now" Question

09:32 The Step Function Change in GTM AI

14:15 Managing Conflict Between Multiple AI Agents

17:43 Replacing Human Sales Teams with AI Agents

21:50 The Importance of Forward Deployed Engineers

24:57 The Terminal Decline of Mid-Pack Sales Roles

30:09 Finding the Internal GTM Nerd to Lead AI

34:15 Executives Must Roll Up Sleeves and Implement

46:22 Fixing Inbound and Support with Instant Answers

53:15 Why You're Failing To Source The Right Tools

57:27 Evaluating Incumbents vs. AI-Native Startups

01:02:41 The Salesforce Renaissance and Agentforce

01:09:45 Triple, Triple, Double, Double in the AI Era

01:15:28 Choosing Between High Intensity and Lifestyle Roles

Hiring a VP or CRO has never been tougher (or more important). Asad Zaman, CEO of Sales Talent Agency - and one of the most trusted voices in GTM recruiting - joins host Kyle Norton to talk about how GTM leadership hiring is changing fast.

They dig into:

- Why AI broke the traditional interview process, and what they do now instead

- How to build a robust hiring scorecard that performs miles better than a fluffy job description

- The trade‑offs that actually kill VP hiring processes

- How top CROs should evaluate future leaders (and spot "pre‑peak" talent)

- The biggest blind spot CROs have when hiring VPs

I mean... who isn't curious about the tested frameworks from the guy behind 1,000+ GTM placements a year?

Thanks for tuning in. Catch new episodes every Wednesday.

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:34 Guest Introduction: Asad from STA (Sales Talent Agency)

02:30 Today's Topic: The Challenge of Leadership Hiring

04:14 How AI Has Changed Executive Hiring

07:53 The Rise of the AI-Native Leader

10:26 Market Polarization: Talent Demand and Layoffs

19:03 The New Definition of a Great Leader

24:22 Building an Effective Leadership Hiring Scorecard

29:15 Defining Problems, Jobs to Be Done, and Constraints

35:11 Compensation Psychology and Negotiation Pitfalls

40:34 Mapping the Market and Operationalizing the Scorecard

49:27 Modern Interview Design for Senior Roles

53:12 Teaching as a Core Leadership Skill

56:27 Live Whiteboarding: Replacing Case Studies

01:01:54 Evaluating Candidates for Peak Performance and Potential

02:03:31 CROs' Biggest Blind Spot in Hiring VPs of Sales

Allison Metcalfe's path to CRO was built on systems thinking, multiplier leadership, and a journalist's instinct for "why." In this episode, Kyle and Allison talk through what separates good revenue leaders from great ones, and how to actually lead peers and execs, not just manage them. And maybe we shouldn't tell you this, but… Allison even reveals her hardcore alter-ego that helps her better ride the highs and lows in the CRO role.

Thanks for tuning in! Catch new episodes every Wednesday.

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

01:47 Allison Metcalfe's Career Journey

03:41 Non-Traditional Path to CRO

05:16 Architecture Thinking and the AI Era

07:25 Systems Thinking and Curiosity in Revenue Leadership

09:01 Managing Executive Relationships

10:56 Discovering Multiplier Leadership

18:44 Decision-Making Without Consensus Paralysis

24:30 Building Healthy Executive Relationships

30:11 Authenticity and Connection in Remote Work

33:09 Using Enneagram for Team Understanding

38:00 Radical Empathy Across Departments

46:27 Collaborating Effectively with Finance

53:21 Navigating 2026 Planning Conflicts

58:26 Data-Driven Decision Making and Change Management

01:03:32 Quick Fire: Career Lessons, Alter Egos, and Book Recommendations

Peter Grant helped take Siebel from $39M to $2B in revenue and was employee #9 for Salesforce in Europe. He knows exactly what a platform shift looks like. Now, as the CRO of You.com, Peter argues that the AI wave is moving 30x faster than the internet era—and your current sales playbook is already obsolete.

In this episode, Peter strips away the hype to focus on the operational reality of running an AI-first GTM organization. He explains the skill stack today's sellers need, why your team needs to understand APIs, and the specific benchmarks you need to hit to survive the next two years. Plus a whole lot more!

Thanks for tuning in. Catch new episodes every Wednesday.

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:00 Peter Grant's Career and Revenue History

07:32 Choosing You.com and Pivoting to Enterprise

11:46 How AI Search Transforms Sales Discovery

16:12 The Speed and Scale of AI Sales

20:55 Embedding AI Agents into Existing Workflows

27:11 Benchmarking Enterprise AI Spend and Adoption

33:14 Solving the Employee AI Literacy Gap

38:59 The Evolution of the Sales Rep Profile

43:06 Implementing and Prioritizing AI Transformation

52:05 The Hard Reality for Sales Laggards

59:30 Investing Upfront Time to Master Prompting

01:03:10 Why Revenue Leaders Must Be Context Setters

01:10:12 How Tactics Dictate Strategy in Enterprise Deals

01:12:49 Rapid Fire: Leadership Advice and Lessons