The Sacred Slope

Send us Fan Mail

64. Healing After Evangelicalism & Finding a Beautiful Faith | Diana Butler Bass (Methodist → Evangelical → Episcopal)

What if the Christianity you were taught was never the only Christianity that existed?

What if leaving evangelicalism didn't mean leaving Jesus?

And what if the people best positioned to help heal Christianity are those who understand more than one Christian world?

Dr. Diana Butler Bass, historian, theologian, and bestselling author, joins Alexis Rice for a conversation about religious trauma, deconstruction, Christian nationalism, and finding beauty and belonging beyond evangelical fundamentalism.

Diana shares her journey from a Methodist childhood through evangelicalism and into the Episcopal Church. Together, they explore the theological diversity many Christians never knew existed and why mainline churches can offer an alternative to the faith systems people are leaving.

At the heart of this conversation is the urgent need for TRANSLATORS.

People who understand evangelical culture AND mainline Christianity. People who can explain evangelical beliefs, fears, and wounds to progressive Christians, pastors, and scholars, while helping those leaving high-control religion discover other ways of following Jesus.

WHO IS THIS EPISODE FOR?

For evangelicals in distress and exvangelicals seeking healing.

For cradle mainliners and progressive Christians who want to understand the evangelical world.

For people of any faith or none who are carrying religious wounds and longing for hope.

And especially for seminarians, scholars, pastors, bishops, and church leaders who want to welcome people shaped by religious trauma and learn from those who can translate between Christian traditions.

Diana reminds us:

"Mainline theology is not a Jenga Tower. Mainline theology is a mosaic."

We also explore her new book, A Beautiful Year: 52 Meditations on Faith, Wisdom, and Perseverance, the Christian calendar, and the beauty of quiet faith.

There are other ways to follow Jesus. There is still beauty to be found.

✨ GUEST + BOOKS

Diana Butler Bass | @dianabutlerbass
A Beautiful Year bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope
The Cottage | dianabutlerbass.substack.com

⛪ EXPLORE MAINLINE CHRISTIANITY

Episcopal Church | @theepiscopalchurch
United Methodist Church | @theumc
United Church of Christ | @unitedchurchofchrist
ELCA Lutheran | @elca
Presbyterian Church (USA) | @pcusa
Disciples of Christ | @disciplesofchrist

🎙️ PEOPLE + COMMUNITIES

Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde | @mariannbudde
Kristin Kobes Du Mez | @kkdumez
Jemar Tisby | @jemartisby
Robert P. Jones | @robertpjonesdc
Theology Beer Camp | @theologybeercamp
Tripp Fuller | @trippfuller
Dr Jennifer Garcia Bashaw | @jgbashaw
Homebrewed Christianity | @theologynerd
Bible for Normal People | @biblefornormalpeople
Pete Enns | @peteenns
Jared Byas | @jaredbyas
Brian McLaren | @brian_mclaren
Sarah Bessey | @sarahbessey
Jen Hatmaker | @jenhatmaker
Nadia Bolz-Weber | @sarcasticlutheran
Barbara Brown Taylor | @barbarabrowntaylor
Rachel Held Evans (1981-2019) | @rachelheldevans

⏱️ CHAPTERS

03:51 | Meet Diana Butler Bass
11:48 | Methodist to Evangelical
14:46 | Taking Jesus With You
23:21 | Why Christianity Needs Translators
28:54 | Evangelical vs. Mainline
33:43 | Finding a New Church Home
39:48 | Translating Religious Trauma
45:59 | Why Young Adults Leave
52:13 | Jesus, Politics & No Kings
58:02 | Jenga Towers vs. Mosaics
01:03:53 | Deception & Responsibility
01:06:19 | Healing After Evangelicalism
01:10:01 | The Beauty of Quiet Faith
01:14:20 | Empathy & Shared Grief
01:17:36 | A Beautiful Year
01:22:48 | Opening Our Minds
01:36:48 | The Sacred Slope Community

#DianaButlerBass #ABeautifulYear #Deconstruction #ReligiousTrauma #MainlineChristianity

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail

63. The Vote is Sacred: Faith, Christian Nationalism & the Fight for Democracy | Rev. Paul Brandeis Raushenbush

What happens when a form of Christianity is used to decide who belongs in America?

Christian nationalism. Religious freedom. A democracy under extraordinary strain. And Christians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, people of many faiths and people of no faith choosing to stand together.

What could interfaith solidarity teach us about protecting democracy?

Rev. Paul Brandeis Raushenbush is an ordained American Baptist minister, President and CEO of Interfaith Alliance, host of State of Belief, and former founding executive editor of HuffPost Religion.

And right now, he’s taking that work on the road with Vote Is Sacred, a nonpartisan, multi-faith campaign traveling across America ahead of the midterm elections.

Paul joins Alexis for an urgent but hopeful conversation about the state of American democracy, the rise of Christian nationalism, separation of church and state, and why no political movement gets to “own” Jesus or religion.

They explore what Jimmy Carter understood about faith and government, why some Christians feel politically homeless, what some politicians can learn about trying to engage with faith communities, and what Jesus actually taught about feeding the hungry, welcoming the stranger and loving our neighbors.

Rev. Paul also shares what decades of interfaith work have taught him about something increasingly difficult:

How do we deeply disagree with someone and still show up for them?

From Jewish-Muslim dialogue to solidarity across religious traditions, Rev. Paul makes the case that protecting our neighbors does not require agreeing with them.

Our futures are intertwined.

And for anyone wondering whether one vote really matters, Rev. Paul has a message:

“We are democracy.”

🗳️ THE VOTE IS SACRED

Go to VoteIsSacred.org to learn about the Vote Is Sacred bus tour, trainings and resources.

If you’re eligible to vote in the United States, make sure you’re registered to vote and know your state’s voting requirements at Vote.gov.

✨ GUEST + FOLLOW

Rev. Paul Brandeis Raushenbush @raushenbush
President & CEO, Interfaith Alliance
Ordained American Baptist minister
Host, State of Belief

Interfaith Alliance | IG: @interfaithalliance

📚 MENTIONED + RESOURCES

Vote Is Sacred | VoteIsSacred.org
Interfaith Alliance | IG: @interfaithalliance | InterfaithAlliance.org
State of Belief | InterfaithAlliance.org/state-of-belief
U.S. voter registration | Vote.gov

⏱️ EPISODE CHAPTERS

03:16 | The Global Impact of U.S. Politics
05:28 | Interfaith Solidarity & the Midterm Elections
06:44 | The Sacred Vote: A Call to Action
11:16 | Faith, Democracy & the Role of Religion
16:14 | Challenging Christian Nationalism
23:53 | Bridging the Divide: Democrats & Faith
27:20 | The Intersection of Politics & Faith
30:38 | Navigating Political Outreach to Christian Communities
33:22 | The Power of Interfaith Collaboration
37:22 | Understanding the Importance of Voting
42:34 | The Stakes of the Midterm Elections
46:15 | A Prayer for Listeners

#InterfaithAlliance #VoteIsSacred #ChristianNationalism #ReligiousFreedom #Interfaith #Democracy #MidtermElections #TheSacredSlope

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail

62. Kathy Baldock (Evangelical) | The 1946 Bible Mistranslation Behind Anti-Gay Theology

What if one of Christianity’s most consequential teachings about LGBTQ people was built on a translation mistake?

Plant sex. A bizarre U.S. Navy sting operation. Nazis burning decades of sexuality research. And a Bible translation decision in 1946 that would reverberate for generations.

What could those things possibly have in common?

Kathy Baldock is an evangelical Christian, author, researcher, LGBTQ advocate, founder of CanyonWalker Connections, and one of the researchers featured in the documentary 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture.

Her new book, Forging a Sacred Weapon, traces 5,000 years of history to ask a deceptively simple question:

How did the word “homosexual” end up in the Bible?

Kathy takes us from ancient sexual ethics and the medieval Church to emerging sexuality research, the U.S. military, McCarthyism, Bible publishing and the archives at Yale—where researchers uncovered correspondence showing that the head of the Revised Standard Version translation team acknowledged a problem with the translation.

The RSV eventually changed it.

But by then, the language had spread.

We explore how American ideas about homosexuality traveled into Bible translations around the world, why Kathy believes both conservative and progressive Christians sometimes get the 1946 story wrong, and what pastors, parents and LGBTQ Christians need to understand now.

And Kathy has a message for queer people who have been told they must choose between their faith and who they are:

The door to God is open.

⚠️ CONTENT NOTE: This episode includes discussion of suicide, sex and sexuality. Not for littles. 

Help is available Speak with someone today
988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline
Languages: English, Spanish Hours: 24/7

✨ GUEST + FOLLOW

Kathy Baldock — IG: @kathyvbaldock
Founder, CanyonWalker Connections

📚 MENTIONED + RESOURCES

Forging a Sacred Weapon: The 1946 Bible Mistranslation Behind Anti-Gay Theology — Kathy Baldock - get it on The Sacred Slope Book Reccos List: https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope

Walking the Bridgeless Canyon — Kathy Baldock

1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture — IG: @1946themovie
Sharon “Rocky” Roggio — Director of 1946 — IG: @1946themovie
Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez IG: @timothysrodriguez book Conversion Therapy Dropout https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope

🎬 Watch 1946: 1946themovie.com
📚 Kathy + CanyonWalker: canyonwalkerconnections.com

⛪ THE SACRED SLOPE LABS

Three virtual labs, 2 options per lab, open to everyone, everywhere.

LAB 1: I Thought This Was Christianity
📅 October 22 & 23

LAB 2: Who Formed Us?
📅 November 5 & 6

LAB 3: Speaking Across the Faith Divide
📅 November 12 & 13

🎟️ Register: thesacredslope.com

⏱️ EPISODE CHAPTERS

00:00 — Can You Be Queer & Christian?
05:07 — Plant Sex, Nazis & a 1946 Bible
09:56 — Meet Kathy Baldock
17:37 — 5,000 Years of Sexuality & Christianity
26:17 — What Really Happened With the RSV?
37:16 — When the Translators Realized the Problem
45:21 — The Dutch & German Bibles
52:47 — Kathy’s Message to LGBTQ Christians
57:16 — Sex, Pleasure & the Medieval Church
59:03 — The Wild History of Masturbation
1:05:11 — The U.S. Navy Sex Sting
1:11:18 — Why Churches Struggle to Change
1:17:14 — Where Kathy Finds Hope

#KathyBaldock #1946TheMovie #LGBTQChristian #BibleTranslation #QueerChristian #Deconstruction

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail

61. Lisa Sharon Harper (Episcopal) | White Supremacy, Evangelicalism & Decolonizing Christianity

What if the Christianity many Americans are deconstructing isn’t Christianity itself-but a version shaped by whiteness, empire, and power?

Lisa Sharon Harper is a public theologian, author, activist, playwright, founder and president of FreedomRoad, and is currently discerning ordination in the Episcopal Church.

Lisa traces the complicated history of American evangelicalism—from the Black church and abolitionist movements to fundamentalism, the Southern Baptist Convention, segregation, and the modern political power of white evangelicalism.

Then she challenges one of the central ideas of modern faith deconstruction:

Christianity was never a white faith.

Jesus and the earliest Christians emerged from colonized people in the ancient Near East. Lisa argues that abandoning Christianity because of white Christian racism can leave the supremacy of Western Christianity itself uninterrogated.

She doesn’t call us to deconstruct Christianity.

She calls us to decolonize it.

We explore Acts 2, implicit bias, the Black church, fundamentalism, Christian nationalism, religious certainty-and what happens when we rediscover Jesus outside the version of Christianity we inherited.

Lisa leaves us with three words:

“Seek brown Jesus.”

✨ GUEST + FOLLOW

Lisa Sharon Harper (Episcopal)  IG: @lisasharper
Founder & President, FreedomRoad @freedomroad.us

📚 MENTIONED + RESOURCES

Christena Cleveland (PhD) — IG: @christenacleveland
Rev. Dr. David P. Gushee — IG: @d_pgushee
Rev. Dr. Kelly Brown Douglas — IG: @revdrkbd

Sojourners — Independent Christian magazine exploring faith, culture, politics & social justice.

📖 Lisa’s 2015 essay that opens this episode:
“Four Easy Ways to Be a White Supremacist”
https://sojo.net/magazine/septemberoctober-2015/four-easy-ways-be-white-supremacist

📰 Explore Sojourners: @sojogram
https://sojo.net

⛪ THE SACRED SLOPE LABS

Three virtual labs, 2 options per lab, open to everyone, everywhere. Attend one, two, or all three.

LAB 1: I Thought This Was Christianity
📅 October 22 & 23

LAB 2: Who Formed Us?
📅 November 5 & 6

LAB 3: Speaking Across the Faith Divide
📅 November 12 & 13

🎟️ Register: thesacredslope.com

🥚 Listen all the way through for an Easter egg revealing our first guest speaker for Lab 1.

⏱️ EPISODE CHAPTERS

02:42 — White Supremacy: Explicit vs. Implicit Bias
09:56 — Meet Lisa Sharon Harper
12:23 — PhD in Womanist Ethics
18:56 — Evangelical ≠ Republican or Democrat
21:48 — What Does “Evangelical” Mean?
28:00 — The Black Church & Second Great Awakening
32:43 — Slaveholder Faith & American Christianity
36:38 — What’s Behind “Non-Denominational”?
41:36 — Should We Save Evangelicalism?
44:00 — Fundamentalism & Certainty
45:23 — What Happens After Deconstruction?
47:06 — Christianity Was Never a White Faith
52:51 — Decolonizing Acts 2
55:47 — “I’m Not for Deconstructing. I’m for Decolonizing.”
57:13 — “Seek Brown Jesus”
57:20 — Sacred Slope Labs + Easter Egg

#LisaSharonHarper #DecolonizingChristianity #Deconstruction #Evangelicalism #ChristianNationalism 

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail

60. Raised Pentecostal vs. United Methodist | Deconstruction, Doubt & Finding God Again with Colten Barnaby & Rev. Dr. S.C. Williams

What happens when two Christians grow up in almost completely different versions of Christianity?

Colten Barnaby grew up in a strict Oneness Holiness Pentecostal world, speaking in tongues at five years old and believing other Christians still needed to be saved.

Rev. Dr. S.C. Williams grew up United Methodist, where he was encouraged to question, evolution wasn’t controversial, hell was rarely discussed, and faith was rooted more in grace than fear.

Same Christianity?

That question opens a fascinating conversation about Pentecostalism, United Methodism, deconstruction, religious trauma, progressive Christianity, evolution, scripture, doubt, Christian nationalism—and whether questioning your faith can actually bring you closer to God.

Colten shares how studying theology and church history at Oral Roberts University complicated the certainty he grew up with. Instead of atheist professors destroying his faith, he encountered serious Christians who accepted evolution, disagreed theologically, and still respected one another.

Today, Colten sometimes describes himself with a sentence that would have terrified his younger self:

“I’m a Christian who doesn’t believe in God.”

What does that even mean?

Together, Colten and S.C. explore what remains when certainty disappears—and why seeking truth may matter more than protecting the theological system you inherited.

They also discuss religious trauma, LGBTQ+ inclusion, harmful theology, the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, Christian nationalism, debating Doug Wilson, progressive Christianity, and one of the hardest questions for people rebuilding faith:

How do you know who to trust again?

And for anyone afraid deconstruction will lead them away from God:

Maybe God is on the other side of your questions too.

✨ GUESTS + FOLLOW

Colten Barnaby — Christian thinker and creator exploring theology, politics, philosophy, and faith after certainty.

Rev. Dr. S.C. Williams — United Methodist pastor and creator exploring scripture, theology, church history, and harmful Christian teachings.

📚 MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Brian Recker — IG: @berecker
Tim Whitaker / The New Evangelicals — IG: @thenewevangelicals @timwhitakerspeaks
Tripp Fuller — IG: @trippfuller
Homebrewed Christianity — IG: @theologynerd
Theology Beer Camp — IG: @theologybeercamp
April Ajoy — IG: @aprilajoy

🍺 THEOLOGY BEER CAMP

Alexis, Colten, Tripp Fuller, and other Sacred Slope friends are headed to Theology Beer Camp in Kansas City, Missouri, October 8–10, 2026—a gathering for people willing to ask big questions about God, Christianity, theology, culture, and the world without pretending they already have all the answers.

In-person tickets are sold out, but virtual tickets are still available at theologybeer.camp.

⏱️ EPISODE CHAPTERS

07:29 — Meet Colten Barnaby & Rev. Dr. S.C. Williams
08:24 — Growing Up Oneness Pentecostal
11:45 — When Education Complicates Your Faith
14:20 — Pentecostal vs. United Methodist Christianity
17:15 — Religious Trauma & What the Church Owes People
19:02 — “I’m a Christian Who Doesn’t Believe in God”
23:48 — What Is God?
25:20 — Progressive Christianity & Questions
29:30 — Debating Doug Wilson
33:54 — Why S.C. Williams Does Theology Online
35:34 — Recognizing Harmful Theology
36:42 — Apostasy, Fear & Religious Trauma
43:00 — LGBTQ+ Inclusion & Reading the Bible Differently
44:35 — Reinterpreting Scripture
47:07 — Why Church Tradition Matters
51:34 — Doubt, Truth & Seeking God
01:02:40 — What Deconstruction Actually Looks Like
01:03:24 — Historical Context Changes Theology
01:06:04 — The Wesleyan Quadrilateral
01:09:49 — Reading Scripture Through Jesus
01:16:26 — Who Can You Trust After Religious Trauma?
01:21:40 — Can Doubt Bring You Closer to God?

#Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #Pentecostal #UnitedMethodist #ReligiousTrauma #FaithAndDoubt #Exvangelical #Christianity #TheSacredSlope

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail

59. Theology Beer Camp Preview (Ilia Delio, Tripp Fuller, Sarah Heath & Josh Patterson) | We Shocked a Theologian With What We Were Taught About Christianity

What happens when you tell a theologian what millions of American evangelicals were taught they had to believe in order to be Christian?

Ilia Delio was shocked. She's not the only one. I have done this exercise with several pastors, theologians, scholars around the world outside of conservative fundamentalism and they are almost all shocked. And those in fundamentalism are shocked at the responses outside of conservative evangelicalism. So what's going on here? 

In this special Theology Beer Camp preview, Ilia Delio, Tripp Fuller, Sarah Heath, and Josh Patterson join Alexis Rice for a conversation about evangelical fundamentalism, deconstruction, Christian nationalism, science, evolution, curiosity, AI, and what happens when faith becomes bigger than the beliefs we inherited.

The conversation begins with a simple experiment:

Put your finger down if you were taught…

That the snake in Genesis was a literal talking snake.

That you needed to pray the sinner’s prayer to escape eternal conscious torment in hell.

That the rapture could happen at any moment.

That you cannot be gay and Christian.

That women cannot be pastors.

That evolution contradicts the Bible.

That questioning any of this meant questioning God.

Alexis and Josh put every finger down.

Ilia, Tripp, and Sarah largely don’t.

Ilia’s reaction?

“My God… I can’t believe you guys really followed that stuff.”

And then comes the question underneath this entire episode:

“Is this stuff still going on?”

Yes.

And that disconnect matters.

Together, they explore how Christians from different traditions can inherit radically different understandings of the same faith—and why people leaving conservative evangelicalism may have no idea that other faithful expressions of Christianity have been here all along.

Tripp reflects on how 9/11, Islamophobia, war, and militaristic nationalism changed his relationship with the Christian world around him.

Sarah shares what happened when she moved from a questioning Christian home in Canada into conservative evangelical culture in the American South—and why curiosity may be one of the most important things Christians can offer one another.

Josh talks about letting go of theological finality and embracing the idea that being human means always becoming.

And Ilia explores evolution, science, inner freedom, AI, and a God she understands not as a power over us, but as a presence and embrace within us.

By the end, everyone has all ten fingers back up.

They still don’t believe exactly the same things.

They don’t need to.

Because maybe changing your theology doesn’t mean losing your faith.

Maybe asking questions isn’t something Christianity needs to fear.

And maybe people who thought they had to choose between the Christianity they inherited and no Christianity at all need to hear something much simpler:

Christianity is bigger than what you were taught.

✨ GUESTS + FOLLOW

Ilia Delio
Franciscan sister, theologian, scientist, and founder of the Center for Christogenesis
IG: @centerforchristogenesis

Tripp Fuller
Theologian, author, host of Homebrewed Christianity, and founder of Theology Beer Camp
IG: @trippfuller
Homebrewed Christianity: @theologynerd
Theology Beer Camp: @theologybeercamp

Sarah Heath
United Methodist pastor, author, speaker, creator, and professional asker of good questions
IG: @revsarahheath

Josh Patterson
Theologian, podcaster, and host of (Re)thinking Faith
Podcast IG: @rethinking_faith

🍺 THEOLOGY BEER CAMP

Alexis, Ilia, Tripp, Sarah, and Josh are headed to Theology Beer Camp in Kansas City, Missouri, October 8–10, 2026—a gathering for people willing to ask big questions about God, Christianity, culture, science, and the world without pretending they already have all the answers.

In-person tickets are sold out, but virtual tickets are still available at theologybeer.camp.

📚 MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Andrew Whitehead — @andrewwhitehead
Sociologist and author whose work examines Christian nationalism in the United States.

⏱️ EPISODE CHAPTERS

06:05 — The Experiment: Were We Even Taught the Same Christianity?
09:58 — Ilia’s Reaction: “You Really Followed That Stuff?”
11:50 — Growing Up Christian in Very Different Worlds
14:33 — When Evangelicalism Becomes the Only Christianity You Know
15:20 — Can Christians Believe Differently and Still Belong?
17:55 — Is God Bigger Than Our Beliefs?
19:59 — Evolution, Genesis & Faith
22:28 — What Happens to Faith After Deconstruction?
24:38 — Curiosity, Freedom & Making Room for Each Other
27:27 — AI, Christianity & What It Means to Be Human
30:02 — Can Science and Religion Learn to Talk to Each Other?
31:21 — After Deconstruction: What Do We Believe Now?

#TheologyBeerCamp #IliaDelio #TrippFuller #SarahHeath #JoshPatterson #Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #FaithAndDoubt #ChristianNationalism #ScienceAndReligion #TheSacredSlope

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail

58. Interfaith Comedy (Yasmin Elhady, Carmiya Weinraub & PT Bratton) | A Muslim, a Jew, and Two Christians Walk Into a Podcast

Comedians Yasmin Elhady, Carmiya Weinraub, and P. T. Bratton join Alexis Rice for an interfaith conversation about faith, comedy, stereotypes, friendship, and the questions people are often too nervous to ask out loud.

Together, they are part of Interfaith Comedy, a nationally touring project that brings performers of different faith traditions together to laugh, challenge assumptions, and build real human connection.

Carmiya, an observant Jewish comedian and founder of Interfaith Comedy, shares why she wanted Muslim performers in Jewish spaces - and herself in spaces beyond the Jewish community. Yasmin, an Egyptian American Muslim comedian and attorney, reflects on being welcomed to the United States as an asylum seeker by Catholic charities and on why faith, humility, pain, and comedy belong together. P. T., a Christian comedian, former pastor, and military veteran, brings humor and insight about Christian culture, church guilt, and the many ways people interpret the same sacred text.

This conversation is not about convincing everyone to believe the same thing.

It is about what happens when we stop talking about one another and start talking with one another.

People become much harder to fear - and harder to hate - up close.

✨ Guests + Upcoming Shows

Yasmin Elhady @yasminelhahahady
 Egyptian American comedian, attorney, speaker, and storyteller
 Known for Hulu’s Muslim Matchmaker and NBC’s True Story with Ed Helms and Randall Park
Performed at the Kennedy Center
Upcoming: Not Exactly a Nun at Woolly Mammoth Theatre Company in Washington, D.C., beginning September 25
Website + tickets | Woolly Mammoth Theatre Company

Carmiya Weinraub @carmiya.w
Observant Jewish comedian, producer, mother of five, and founder of Interfaith Comedy @interfaith.comedy. Creator of a nationally touring comedy project connecting audiences across faith traditions
Interfaith Comedy

PT Bratton @ptbrattoncomedy
Comedian, storyteller, military veteran, and former pastor
Has performed nationally, from comedy clubs to the Kennedy Center and the White House
Website + upcoming shows

#InterfaithComedy #YasminElhady #CarmiyaWeinraub #PTBratton #Interfaith #FaithAndComedy #TheSacredSlope

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail

57. Matthew Boedy (Baptist) | The Seven Mountains Mandate: Exposing the Dangerous Plan to Christianize America and Destroy Democracy

What if something many Christians dismiss as fringe is actually an organized framework for changing American culture?

Religion. Family. Education. Government and military. Media. Arts and entertainment. Business.

These are the Seven Mountains.

Dr. Matthew Boedy, Baptist, professor, scholar of religious rhetoric and Christian nationalism, and author of The Seven Mountains Mandate, joins Alexis Rice to explain the history of the Seven Mountains Mandate and why he believes this movement matters far beyond conservative evangelicalism.

Alexis grew up in evangelical Christianity. She knew about Christian schools, Christian media, Christian politics, Campus Crusade, apologetics and the culture wars. But she had never heard anyone explain that there were seven specific areas of culture Christians were supposed to influence or “take.”

Matthew traces the framework back to Bill Bright of Campus Crusade for Christ and Lauren Cunningham of Youth With A Mission, and explains the later influence of Lance Wallnau.

They talk about Turning Point USA, Project 2025, public schools, the Ten Commandments, spiritual warfare, pastors and politics, “marketplace apostles,” conspiracy thinking, social media, Christian media, and the difference between sharing your faith and seeking political or cultural power.

But this conversation is also about Christianity itself.

Matthew is Christian. Alexis is Christian. And the Christianity being discussed here is not all Christianity.

What happens when one expression of Christianity becomes so visible that people begin confusing it with Christianity itself?

And what responsibility do pastors, scholars, professors and other Christians have to make the larger Christian tradition visible?

CHAPTERS

02:56 Introduction
04:12 What Is the Seven Mountains Mandate?
08:37 Understanding Christian Nationalism
17:39 How Large Is This Movement?
23:10 The Global Movement
27:10 Spiritual Warfare & Strategy
30:06 Which Christianity?
32:36 Media & Counterpoints
35:18 Mountain 1: Education
41:41 Ten Commandments in Schools
44:54 The California Narrative
47:21 Mountain 2: Government
49:58 Mountain 3: Religion
53:36 Mountain 4: Family
01:01:51 Mountain 5: Business
01:05:15 Mountain 6: Media
01:09:40 Mountain 7: Arts & Entertainment
01:13:11 Hope & What Comes Next

✨ Guest + Book

Matthew Boedy
The Seven Mountains Mandate: Exposing the Dangerous Plan to Christianize America and Destroy Democracy  https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope
Professor, University of North Georgia
Westminster John Knox Press
Thanks to @aprilajoy, author of Star-Spangled Jesus , who makes a cameo in this episode, for alerting me through your book of the Seven Mountains Mandate

#MatthewBoedy #SevenMountainsMandate #ChristianNationalism #Christianity 

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail

56. Kristin Kobes Du Mez (Christian) | Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made

What if the Christianity you were taught was never the only way to be Christian?

For millions of women raised in American evangelicalism, the rules felt inseparable from the faith itself.

Be pure. Submit. Don’t question authority. Stay inside the lines. Follow the right leaders. Read the right books. Believe the right things. Shop at the right stores. And if you do it all faithfully enough, you’ll be safe, happy, and blessed.

But who made those rules? Where did they come from? And what happens when you discover that some of what you were taught as timeless biblical truth has a history?

Kristin Kobes Du Mez, historian, scholar, and New York Times bestselling author of Jesus and John Wayne, joins Alexis Rice to uncover that history in her new book, Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made.

For women formed by evangelical Christianity, this one may feel deeply personal.

Purity culture. Biblical womanhood. Submission. Christian bookstores. Megachurches. Beth Moore Bible studies. Political power. Christian nationalism. And the promise underneath so much of it: follow the rules and you will be safe, prosperous, and happy.

But Kristin’s history reveals something many women were never taught. Christian women have also challenged patriarchy, fought for women’s rights, preached, led, questioned authority, and imagined faithful Christianity differently.

Together they explore:

• How evangelicalism became a self-contained cultural ecosystem
• The surprising history of Christian feminism
• Purity culture, shame & the “sexual prosperity gospel”
• Christian consumer culture, belonging & control
• Why questioning the system felt like questioning Christianity
• Beth Moore, abuse, Trump & the cost of speaking out
• Gender, politics, power & Christian nationalism
• Rachel Held Evans, Sarah Bessey & women imagining another way
• Why seeing the system clearly is the first step toward changing it

Kristin is careful to distinguish this history from all Christianity or even all evangelicalism. There have always been dissenters.

“There were always people inside the system who began to see the system for what it was.”

What becomes possible when you realize the Christianity you inherited is not the only Christianity available to you?

✨ Guest + Books

• Kristin Kobes Du Mez, @kkdumez
• Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made
• Jesus and John Wayne
• A New Gospel for Women
• Publisher: Liveright Publishing, an imprint of W. W. Norton & Company

📚 People, Books & Resources Mentioned

• Beth Moore, @bethmoorelpm
• Rachel Held Evans (1981–2019) @rachelheldevans, Evolving in Monkey Town; A Year of Biblical Womanhood
• Sarah Bessey, @sarahbessey, Jesus Feminist
• Jen Hatmaker, @jenhatmaker
• Amy Grant, @amygrantofficial
• LifeWay Christian Resources, @lifeway

05:05 Introduction to the Sacred Slope
06:54 Expanding the Christian Faith
08:44 Understanding Christian Nationalism
09:11 The Movement of Women in Christianity
10:00 Introduction to Kristen Kobes Du Mez and Her Work
11:52 The Impact of 'Jesus and John Wayne' and Cultural Phenomenon
14:53 Exploring White Evangelical Womanhood and Purity Culture
17:46 The Complexity of Evangelicalism and Dissenting Voices
20:35 Historical Context of Christian Women's Involvement in Feminism
23:33 The Closed System of Evangelical Culture
25:59 Personal Reflections on Faith and Regret
28:25 Understanding Power Dynamics in Evangelicalism
31:26 The Role of Women in Shaping Evangelical History
33:51 Concluding Thoughts on the Future of Christianity
41:03 The Totalizing System of Evangelicalism
44:49 Purity Culture and Its Impact
53:13 Beth Moore: A Voice of Change
01:04:01 Hope and Courage in the Face of Adversity
01:15:17 Introduction to The Sacred Slope
01:15:17 Nomination Process for Clergy Members

#KristinKobesDuMez #LiveLaughLove #Christianity #Evangelicalism #Deconstruction #ChristianNationalism #PurityCulture #WomenInChurch

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Send us Fan Mail

55. Birdy Mae (Southern Baptist) — When Evangelical Christianity Stops Feeling Like Home

Birdy Mae knew how to be a good Southern Baptist woman.

Know the Bible. Serve constantly. Believe the right things. Raise your kids the right way. And be certain.

“I was desperate to be like her. Because I thought she knew Jesus.”

Eventually, Birdy became her.

Then the certainty started cracking.

Women. LGBTQ+ Christians. Church abuse. Race. Political power. Christian nationalism. And finally, January 6.

For women raised inside conservative evangelical Christianity who still love Jesus but increasingly wonder, How did the faith that formed me become something I barely recognize?—this conversation will feel familiar.

Birdy joins Alexis Rice for a funny, vulnerable conversation about what happens when changing your mind costs you relationships, certainty, and belonging—but not Jesus.

Together they explore:

• Becoming the “good Christian woman” she thought she had to be
• Hell houses, purity culture & fear-based Christianity
• Beth Moore, women preaching & cracks in Southern Baptist certainty
• Church abuse scandals & institutional power
• Realizing she had been wrong about LGBTQ+ Christians
• Travel & discovering Christianity beyond an American lens
• January 6 and Birdy’s breaking point
• Christian nationalism & political identity
• Women, gender roles & what younger women are inheriting
• Losing relationships after publicly changing her mind
• Why questioning your faith doesn’t have to mean losing Jesus
• Why Birdy still attends a Southern Baptist church

Birdy calls her journey “untangling”—pulling the threads of Jesus away from the rules of religion.

Can you grieve what your Christian world has become without giving up the Jesus you found there?

“You have the right to question everything.”

✨ Guest

• Birdy Mae (Mary) — Southern Baptist storyteller & creator — @birdymaesays
• Substack: The Back Row

📚 Books, People & Resources Mentioned

• Kristin Kobes Du Mez — @kkdumez — Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made; Jesus and John Wayne
• Pete Enns — @peteenns — The Sin of Certainty; The Bible Tells Me So
• Beth Allison Barr — @bethallisonbarr — The Making of Biblical Womanhood
• Rachel Held Evans — @rachelheldevans — A Year of Biblical Womanhood
• Sarah Bessey — @sarahbessey — Field Notes for the Wilderness / Braving the Wilderness of Faith
• Beth Moore — @bethmoorelpm
• Andrew Whitehead — @ndrewwhitehead — American Idolatry
• April Ajoy — @aprilajoy — Star-Spangled Jesus
• Cody Deese — @codydeese My Internal Universe
• Kathy Baldock — @forgingasacredweapon1946 Forging a Sacred Weapon
• 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture — @1946themovie
• Oprah Winfrey — @oprah

📺 Movies, TV & Culture Mentioned

• The Handmaid’s Tale — @handmaidsonhulu
• The Righteous Gemstones — @HBO @therighteousgemstones 
• Mrs. America — FX @
mrsamericafx

#Christianity #Deconstruction #Evangelicalism #SouthernBaptist #ChristianNationalism #ChurchHurt #WomenInChurch #LGBTQChristians #Faith

Support the show

About The Sacred Slope 
thesacredslope.com

Where the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.
For the spiritually tender - raised in or rooted in Christianity.
Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.

🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify
     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere
     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)

🔗 Connect
🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope
🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice
🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence
📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]

🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿
Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control