Therapy Brothers

Therapy Brothers

By Reclaim Your HeartHealth & FitnessMental Health
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  • Typical duration

    46 min

    per episode

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Therapy Brothers episodes

  • #330: I'm Married To "Mr. Nice Guy". How Do I Do This?

    In this episode, Tyler and Brannon discuss the dynamics of being married to a "Mr. Nice Guy," exploring themes of authenticity, communication, and self-discovery in relationships.

    // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

    We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



    // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

    • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
      • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



        // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

        • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
        • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



          // COURSES //

          • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
          • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
          • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



            // EVENTS //

            • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
            • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
            • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



              // Reclaim Your Heart //

              Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/

              56 min
            • #329: Is There Any Way Out Of Feeling Hopeless?

              In this episode, Tyler and Brannon discuss overcoming feelings of hopelessness in recovery. They share personal stories and practical strategies like maintaining structure, practicing gratitude, and serving others to find light in challenging times.


              // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

              We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



              // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

              • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
                • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



                  // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

                  • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
                  • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



                    // COURSES //

                    • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
                    • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
                    • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



                      // EVENTS //

                      • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
                      • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
                      • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



                        // Reclaim Your Heart //

                        Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/

                        42 min
                      • #328: Is Recovery "One Size Fits All" ?

                        In this episode, Tyler and Brannon discuss the question, "Is recovery 'one size fits all'?" They explore the challenges of navigating recovery methods, emphasizing the importance of personalized approaches, honesty, and communication in relationships.

                        // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

                        We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



                        // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

                        • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
                          • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



                            // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

                            • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
                            • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



                              // COURSES //

                              • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
                              • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
                              • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



                                // EVENTS //

                                • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
                                • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
                                • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



                                  // Reclaim Your Heart //

                                  Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/

                                  45 min
                                • #327: Can I Set A Boundary Around My Spouse's Lying?

                                  In this episode, Tyler and Brannon discuss the struggles of setting boundaries around a partner's dishonesty. They tackle a listener's question about coping with a spouse's repeated lying, emphasizing the importance of trust and personal values in navigating such challenges.


                                  // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

                                  We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



                                  // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

                                  • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
                                    • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



                                      // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

                                      • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
                                      • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



                                        // COURSES //

                                        • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
                                        • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
                                        • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



                                          // EVENTS //

                                          • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
                                          • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
                                          • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



                                            // Reclaim Your Heart //

                                            Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/

                                            36 min
                                          • #326: Let's Talk About The Difference Between Limerence And Love

                                            In this episode, Tyler and Brannon discuss the contrast between limerence and love. They tackle listener questions on navigating infidelity, rebuilding trust, and rekindling intimacy.


                                            // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

                                            We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



                                            // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

                                            • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
                                              • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



                                                // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

                                                • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
                                                • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



                                                  // COURSES //

                                                  • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
                                                  • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
                                                  • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



                                                    // EVENTS //

                                                    • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
                                                    • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
                                                    • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



                                                      // Reclaim Your Heart //

                                                      Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/

                                                      36 min
                                                    • #325: I've Done All I Can And I Still Feel Like I'm Not Enough. Am I Good Enough For God?

                                                      Caller Adam's Question: " What road blocks are causing me to gain recovery momentum with over a decade of failed attempts?....…"


                                                      // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

                                                      We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



                                                      // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

                                                      • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
                                                        • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



                                                          // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

                                                          • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
                                                          • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



                                                            // COURSES //

                                                            • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
                                                            • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
                                                            • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



                                                              // EVENTS //

                                                              • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
                                                              • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
                                                              • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



                                                                // Reclaim Your Heart //

                                                                Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/


                                                                51 min
                                                              • #324: How Can I Find Peace No Matter What

                                                                In this podcast, Tyler and Brannon explore the path to inner peace, inspired by a quote from Buddhist monk Pema Chödrön. They discuss the balance between acceptance and agency, resilience in the face of challenges, and the transformative power of acknowledging the difference between pain and suffering.


                                                                // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

                                                                We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

                                                                • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
                                                                  • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



                                                                    // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

                                                                    • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
                                                                    • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                      // COURSES //

                                                                      • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
                                                                      • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
                                                                      • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                        // EVENTS //

                                                                        • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
                                                                        • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
                                                                        • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



                                                                          // Reclaim Your Heart //

                                                                          Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/


                                                                          40 min
                                                                        • #323: How Do I Know When My Spouse Has Forgiven Me?

                                                                          Caller Danny's Question: "How do I know if my wife has forgiven me?....…"


                                                                          // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

                                                                          We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                          // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

                                                                          • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
                                                                            • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



                                                                              // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

                                                                              • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
                                                                              • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                // COURSES //

                                                                                • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
                                                                                • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                  // EVENTS //

                                                                                  • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
                                                                                  • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                  • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



                                                                                    // Reclaim Your Heart //

                                                                                    Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/

                                                                                    00:00 - Introduction
                                                                                    01:27 - Sleep Deprivation Stories
                                                                                    06:12 - Weekend Reflections: Family & Loss
                                                                                    11:45 - Opening Up About Personal Struggles
                                                                                    16:30 - The Burden of Guilt and Shame
                                                                                    22:05 - Seeking Forgiveness: Trust vs. Forgiveness
                                                                                    27:40 - Manipulation and Self-Deception
                                                                                    32:18 - The Root of Emotional Trauma
                                                                                    37:02 - Reconnecting with Self and Spirituality
                                                                                    42:15 - Embracing Vulnerability and Authenticity
                                                                                    46:50 - Reflecting on Family Dynamics
                                                                                    51:23 - Surrendering to Self-Acceptance
                                                                                    56:08 - Understanding Forgiveness and Atonement

                                                                                    48 min
                                                                                  • #322: How Do I Navigate Rebuilding Trust And Showing Up Authentically After Relapse?

                                                                                    Caller Justin's Question: "I have been in recovery and sober for almost 2 years. Somewhere around July I relapsed which I just admitted to myself after listening to your podcast. I had been using the shopping apps Wish and Temu to look at women in lingerie. This continued until my shame caught up to me and I deleted the apps from my phone. We use an accountability software called Truple that sends screenshots of my PC and my phone to my wife. To my knowledge this software was not working on my phone which I think contributed to my acting out, but it had recently started working again so she saw exactly what I was looking at. My question is how do I make sure that my almost 2 years of sobriety and the trust we had built is not destroyed and how can I get back to building trust after devastating her once again?....…"

                                                                                    // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

                                                                                    We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                    // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

                                                                                    • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                      • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                        // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

                                                                                        • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                        • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                          // COURSES //

                                                                                          • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
                                                                                          • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                          • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                            // EVENTS //

                                                                                            • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
                                                                                            • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                            • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



                                                                                              // Reclaim Your Heart //

                                                                                              Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/

                                                                                              00:00 - Intro
                                                                                              01:23 - Welcome to Therapy Brothers Podcast
                                                                                              03:15 - Introduction of Justin
                                                                                              04:42 - Justin shares his background and recent struggles
                                                                                              07:12 - Exploring the factors contributing to the relapse
                                                                                              09:56 - Revisiting motivations for sobriety
                                                                                              11:30 - Brandon and Tyler's insights on Justin's journey
                                                                                              14:07 - Discussion on defining relapse and honesty
                                                                                              16:45 - The impact of lying on trust and recovery
                                                                                              18:30 - The importance of embracing imperfection and growth
                                                                                              20:50 - Brandon's personal anecdote on honesty
                                                                                              23:12 - Rebuilding trust through self-love and authenticity
                                                                                              25:45 - Conclusion and gratitude to Justin for sharing
                                                                                              28:00 - End of the episode

                                                                                              51 min
                                                                                            • #321: My Partner's Done A Little Bit Of Recovery Work. Should I Just Be Okay Now?

                                                                                              Caller Jessie's Question: " My Partner's Done A Little Bit Of Recovery Work. Should I Just Be Okay Now?....…"


                                                                                              // SUBMIT A QUESTION + CALL IN //

                                                                                              We'd love to answer questions you have about addiction, trauma, recovery, relationships, and healing. Ask Here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.therapybros.com/call-in-and-ask-a-question/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                              // Tyler Patrick LMFT | "The Wandering Therapist" //

                                                                                              • Free Consultation Call: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/consultation-call⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                                • Love Strong | Experience Therapy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com⁠⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                                  // Brannon Patrick LCSW | "The Expert" //

                                                                                                  • Brannon's Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                                  • Therapy Utah: ⁠⁠⁠https://therapyutah.org/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                                    // COURSES //

                                                                                                    • The Healing Journey: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/⁠
                                                                                                    • Brannon's Boundary Bootcamp: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.brannonpatrick.com/Boundarybootcamp⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                                    • Tyler's Pornography Addiction Recovery Kickstart: ⁠⁠⁠https://lovestrong.com/courses/overcome-pornography-addiction/⁠⁠⁠



                                                                                                      // EVENTS //

                                                                                                      • Radiant Dawn | Women's Retreat: ⁠https://radiantdawn.org⁠
                                                                                                      • Rising Son | Men's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://risingson.org⁠⁠⁠
                                                                                                      • Vibrant Love | Couple's Retreat: ⁠⁠⁠https://vibrantlove.org⁠⁠



                                                                                                        // Reclaim Your Heart //

                                                                                                        Join our new community for quality exclusive content, incredible courses, and real connection: ⁠https://join.reclaimyourheart.com/


                                                                                                        00:00 - Intro
                                                                                                        02:00 - Lawn Mowing Memories
                                                                                                        09:15 - Guest: Jesse's Background
                                                                                                        12:30 - Relationship Challenges
                                                                                                        18:45 - Assessing Recovery
                                                                                                        24:10 - Complexity of Recovery
                                                                                                        30:40 - Focus on Personal Healing
                                                                                                        35:20 - Risk of Personal Growth
                                                                                                        42:05 - Empowering in the Relationship
                                                                                                        47:00 - Outro

                                                                                                        49 min

                                                                                                      About Therapy Brothers

                                                                                                      From the publisher's feed

                                                                                                      This is The Courageous Call-in Show for redemptive healing after betrayal and addiction. Learn how to restore broken trust alongside 2 bold and experienced therapists. Brannon Patrick LSCW and Tyler Patrick LMFT have been in the trenches of addiction therapy for over 20 years, but before they were therapists, they were die-hard brothers and friends. In this podcast, they have deep discussions to answer the most difficult and uncomfortable questions–head on. This podcast is all about restoring trust in relationships after betrayal and addiction, healing trauma and shame, and experiencing wholeness like never before. Ask your question and let's have an honest conversation for a change.

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