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Top Traders Unplugged episodes
- 108 Why Trade in Exotic Markets with Doug Greenig of Florin Court Capital – 1of2"My background really is in fixed income quant and macro and I have a pretty good grounding in discretionary trading, but I've been moving in a more systematic direction for a number of years." (Tweet)Today on Top Traders Unplugged, I'm joined by my cohost Moritz Seibert to speak with Doug Greenig, the Founder, CEO, and CIO at Florin Court Capital. Doug's early experiences in economics at Princeton and UC Berkeley helped kick off his career in finance, and his work at BARRA in Berkeley started his eventual dive into the CTA space. Trading in exotic markets has helped Doug and his firm capitalize on unique opportunities and fully utilize the systematic trading model. Listen in to today's episode to learn how Doug got started in systematic trading and exotic markets, how he built his team at Florin Court, and how he has utilized exotic markets to their fullest potential.Thanks for listening and please welcome our guest Doug Greenig.Subscribe on:In This Episode, You'll Learn:How Doug got started in financeWhy Doug got into the CTA spaceHow systematic trading intrigued Doug more than discretionary tradingThe inspiration behind the name Florin Court Capital"The discipline of following the models and following the process [in systematic trading] is invaluable." (Tweet)Who influenced Doug in his financial careerWhat Doug learned from working with Fischer Black (co-inventor of the Black-Scholes model)How Doug found such an experienced team in the early days of Florin Court CapitalThe exotic markets that Doug is trading"I try to learn from as many people as I can, and some people have a lot to offer." (Tweet)What makes these exotic markets easier, or better to tradeWhere to find the right balance of exotic versus traditional marketsWhat gives an asset more or less momentum, and why crypto is so special in this regardHow Doug selects his markets, and his long-term strategy for maintaining that collection"I would rather have real economic players with different motives on the other side, than to be facing off against other CTA's with slightly different frequencies and other systematic shops." (Tweet)Why Florin Court Capital has stayed out of trading spot cryptoHow to adapt the different markets to the standard modelsConnect with Florin Court Capital:Visit the Website: Florin Court CapitalCall Florin Court Capital: +44 207-016-3473E-Mail Florin Court Capital: [email protected]Follow Doug Greenig on LinkedIn"Systematic trading has a number of advantages over discretionary trading. It forces you to figure out ahead of time what you believe and what you're going to do in a given set of market circumstances." (Tweet)Full TranscriptThe following is a full detailed transcript of this conversion. Click here to subscribe to our mailing list, and get full access to our library of downloadable eBook transcripts!NielsHey everyone, and welcome back to another edition of Top Traders Unplugged where today my co-host Moritz Siebert and I are joined by Doug Greenig, whose the founder, CEO and CIO at Florin Court Capital, a CTA that is backed by Swedish platform giant Brummer & Partners. Now, Doug, thanks so much for coming on the podcast with Moritz and me today. We really appreciate you spending some time with us today and we're very excited about our conversation.Now, you have an interesting background and a unique start to your business so why don't we start there. Tell us about your journey and how that has lead you to the founding of Florin Court Capital.DougI'm happy to do so and I'm glad to be here. So, my story is this, I studied economics as an undergraduate at Princeton and went on to get my PhD in pure mathematics at the Unive...40 min
- TTU108: Big Opportunities in Exotic Markets? ft. Doug Greenig of Florin Court Capital – 1of2
Today I’m joined by my co-host Moritz Seibert to speak with Doug Greenig, the Founder, CEO, and CIO at Florin Court Capital. Doug’s early experiences in economics at Princeton and UC Berkeley helped kick off his career in finance, and his work at BARRA in Berkeley started his eventual dive into the CTA space. Trading in exotic markets has helped Doug and his firm capitalize on unique opportunities and fully utilize the systematic trading model. Listen in to today’s episode to learn how Doug got started in systematic trading and exotic markets, how he built his team at Florin Court, and how he has utilized exotic markets to their fullest potential.
-----
50 YEARS OF TREND FOLLOWING BOOK AND BEHIND-THE-SCENES VIDEO FOR ACCREDITED INVESTORS - CLICK HERE
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
- How Doug got started in finance
- Why Doug got into the CTA space
- How systematic trading intrigued Doug more than discretionary trading
- The inspiration behind the name Florin Court Capital
- Who influenced Doug in his financial career
- What Doug learned from working with Fischer Black (co-inventor of the Black-Scholes model)
- How Doug found such an experienced team in the early days of Florin Court Capital
- The exotic markets that Doug is trading
- What makes these exotic markets easier, or better to trade
- Where to find the right balance of exotic versus traditional markets
- What gives an asset more or less momentum, and why crypto is so special in this regard
- How Doug selects his markets, and his long-term strategy for maintaining that collection
- Why Florin Court Capital has stayed out of trading spot crypto
- How to adapt the different markets to the standard models
-----
Follow Niels on Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube or via the TTU website.
IT’s TRUE ? – most CIO’s read 50+ books each year – get your FREE copy of the Ultimate Guide to the Best Investment Books ever written here.
And you can get a free copy of my latest book “Ten Reasons to Add Trend Following to Your Portfolio” here.
Learn more about the Trend Barometer here.
Send your questions to [email protected]
And please share this episode with a like-minded friend and leave an honest Rating & Review on iTunes or Spotify so more people can discover the podcast.
Follow Doug Greenig on LinkedIn
Copyright © 2025 – CMC AG – All Rights Reserved
----
PLUS: Whenever you're ready... here are 3 ways I can help you in your investment Journey:
1. eBooks that cover key topics that you need to know about
In my eBooks, I put together some key discoveries and things I have learnt during the more than 3 decades I have worked in the Trend Following industry, which I hope you will find useful. Click Here
2. Daily Trend Barometer and Market Score
One of the things I’m really proud of, is the fact that I have managed to published the Trend Barometer and Market Score each day for more than a decade...as these tools are really good at describing the environment for trend following managers as well as giving insights into the general positioning of a trend following strategy! Click Here
3. Other Resources that can help you
And if you are hungry for more useful resources from the trend following world...check out some precious resources that I have found over the years to be really valuable. Click Here
Privacy Policy
Disclaimer
40 min - 09 The Systematic Investor Series – November 12th, 2018Welcome to The Systematic Investor series. It's a great privilege for me to invite you to a behind the scenes conversation between some of my favorite systematic investors namely Jerry Parker and Moritz Seibert. We get on a "call" each week to discuss the events that took place through the lens of a Systematic Investor and how the trading strategies we work with are reacting. It's a raw and honest exploration and we hope you will join and be part of...not least by sending us questions that we can discuss. Please send your questions to [email protected]Episode Summary0:00 - Intro0:50 - Weekly review8:50 - Top tweets24:30 - Question 1: Brian; What makes a trend follower a trend follower (are there variations on TF)?32:20 - Question 2: Seth; What is the best way to achieve diversification in the fixed income/rates sector?38:45 - Discussion papers: Winton, Tim Price49:30 - Performance recapSubscribe on:53 min
- 09 The Systematic Investor Series – November 12th, 2018Welcome to The Systematic Investor series. It's a great privilege for me to invite you to a behind the scenes conversation between some of my favorite systematic investors namely Jerry Parker and Moritz Seibert. We get on a "call" each week to discuss the events that took place through the lens of a Systematic Investor and how the trading strategies we work with are reacting. It's a raw and honest exploration and we hope you will join and be part of...not least by sending us questions that we can discuss. Please send your questions to [email protected]Episode Summary0:00 - Intro0:50 - Weekly review8:50 - Top tweets24:30 - Question 1: Brian; What makes a trend follower a trend follower (are there variations on TF)?32:20 - Question 2: Seth; What is the best way to achieve diversification in the fixed income/rates sector?38:45 - Discussion papers: Winton, Tim Price49:30 - Performance recapSubscribe on:53 min
- SI09: What really makes a Trend Follower a Trend Follower?
Welcome to The Systematic Investor series. It’s a great privilege for me to invite you to a behind the scenes conversation between some of my favorite systematic investors namely Jerry Parker and Moritz Seibert. We get on a “call” each week to discuss the events that took place through the lens of a Systematic Investor and how the trading strategies we work with are reacting. It’s a raw and honest exploration and we hope you will join and be part of…not least by sending us questions that we can discuss.
-----
50 YEARS OF TREND FOLLOWING BOOK AND BEHIND-THE-SCENES VIDEO FOR ACCREDITED INVESTORS - CLICK HERE
-----
Follow Niels on Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube or via the TTU website.
IT’s TRUE ? – most CIO’s read 50+ books each year – get your FREE copy of the Ultimate Guide to the Best Investment Books ever written here.
And you can get a free copy of my latest book “Ten Reasons to Add Trend Following to Your Portfolio” here.
Learn more about the Trend Barometer here.
Send your questions to [email protected]
And please share this episode with a like-minded friend and leave an honest Rating & Review on iTunes or Spotify so more people can discover the podcast.
Episode TimeStamps:
00:00 – Intro
00:50 – Weekly review of performance
08:50 – Top tweets
24:30 – Question 1: Brian; What makes a trend follower a trend follower (are there variations on TF)?
32:20 – Question 2: Seth; What is the best way to achieve diversification in the fixed income/rates sector?
38:45 – Discussion papers: Winton, Tim Price
49:30 – Benchmark performance update
Copyright © 2025 – CMC AG – All Rights Reserved
----
PLUS: Whenever you're ready... here are 3 ways I can help you in your investment Journey:
1. eBooks that cover key topics that you need to know about
In my eBooks, I put together some key discoveries and things I have learnt during the more than 3 decades I have worked in the Trend Following industry, which I hope you will find useful. Click Here
2. Daily Trend Barometer and Market Score
One of the things I’m really proud of, is the fact that I have managed to published the Trend Barometer and Market Score each day for more than a decade...as these tools are really good at describing the environment for trend following managers as well as giving insights into the general positioning of a trend following strategy! Click Here
3. Other Resources that can help you
And if you are hungry for more useful resources from the trend following world...check out some precious resources that I have found over the years to be really valuable. Click Here
Privacy Policy
Disclaimer
53 min - Best of TTU – Defining RiskDuring a conversation I had with expert Bill Dreiss, we discussed many topics, all with great value. One part in particular I found really interesting, and which I would like to share with you, was when I asked Bill how he defines risk. If you would like to l know what Bill said then read on! If you would like to listen to the full conversation just go click here.How Bill Dreiss Defines RiskNiels: Let’s shift gears to a very important topic namely risk management. How do you define risk? I know that you are not a big fan of standard deviation, so how do you define risk in your own methodology?Bill: I think, again, from my philosophical position I’m very suspicious of any kind of… things like VAR or any kind of standard risk metrics. I just think that risk is out there and your worst drawdowns always in the future.I find if you look back over time, you find again some pretty standard risk profiles. You look at anybody who has been around for say 20 years or so, or maybe even 10, almost every one of those managers has had a major drawdown, which I would characterize as 50% or more, and usually just one, right?"If you believe that your guy’s going to stay the course, then you should probably stay the course too. "The people who’ve survived in this business are people who have been able to weather drawdowns without losing their nerve. That’s exactly it. So that’s where the risk comes in. The risk comes in - is your manager going to lose it? That’s where the ultimate risk is. If you believe that your guy’s going to stay the course, then you should probably stay the course too.Neils: I’m going to quote someone that you may be familiar with and who wrote a few years ago. It’s David Druz, and he wrote a few years ago that, “here’s an amazing thing about robust systems, the more robust a system, the more volatile it tends to be. This is because robust systems are not optimized to particular markets or market conditions. The converse is also true. You can design systems with excellent returns and low volatility on historical testing but which work only for a given period or given market. These systems tend to be curve fit and market fit and not robust.”This is completely probably against what most people will feel that robust systems are the ones that are more volatile. I sense from our conversation today that, that is the conclusion that you’ve come to as well.Bill: Yeah, I know David and he’s right, and I think this is a conclusion that most people have been in the business for a while would come to. It’s what I call… This is in contrast to perhaps the dominant quant paradigm which is picking up nickels in front of a steamroller. In other words, you can design systems like Long Term Capital or whatever that can give you smooth returns for a while but what those systems are doing, in my opinion, are what I call warehousing risk.So essentially it’s like… And I think it’s the same sort of thing that Dave is talking about, you can design a system that essentially accumulates risk in some sense, and that when it finally breaks out it happens in a big way. This is, of course, what happened in the lead up in the financial crisis. You had all these people developing these securitizations and all these sorts of things and they were just setting the system up for a major break.In the short term, while that was going on, everybody was happy because everybody was making money and the apparent risk was very low. That’s what I think a trend follower tends to do. I’m essentially taking risk - on an ongoing basis I’m realizing risk. I’m not warehousing it, I’m recognizing it and realizing it and that’s just part of the game. I think any sort of viable, long-term investment has to do that because otherwise it’s a disaster waiting to happen.Niels: Sure, A lot of people say,9 min
- Best of TTU – Defining RiskDuring a conversation I had with expert Bill Dreiss, we discussed many topics, all with great value. One part in particular I found really interesting, and which I would like to share with you, was when I asked Bill how he defines risk. If you would like to l know what Bill said then read on! If you would like to listen to the full conversation just go click here.How Bill Dreiss Defines RiskNiels: Let’s shift gears to a very important topic namely risk management. How do you define risk? I know that you are not a big fan of standard deviation, so how do you define risk in your own methodology?Bill: I think, again, from my philosophical position I’m very suspicious of any kind of… things like VAR or any kind of standard risk metrics. I just think that risk is out there and your worst drawdowns always in the future.I find if you look back over time, you find again some pretty standard risk profiles. You look at anybody who has been around for say 20 years or so, or maybe even 10, almost every one of those managers has had a major drawdown, which I would characterize as 50% or more, and usually just one, right?"If you believe that your guy’s going to stay the course, then you should probably stay the course too. "The people who’ve survived in this business are people who have been able to weather drawdowns without losing their nerve. That’s exactly it. So that’s where the risk comes in. The risk comes in - is your manager going to lose it? That’s where the ultimate risk is. If you believe that your guy’s going to stay the course, then you should probably stay the course too.Neils: I’m going to quote someone that you may be familiar with and who wrote a few years ago. It’s David Druz, and he wrote a few years ago that, “here’s an amazing thing about robust systems, the more robust a system, the more volatile it tends to be. This is because robust systems are not optimized to particular markets or market conditions. The converse is also true. You can design systems with excellent returns and low volatility on historical testing but which work only for a given period or given market. These systems tend to be curve fit and market fit and not robust.”This is completely probably against what most people will feel that robust systems are the ones that are more volatile. I sense from our conversation today that, that is the conclusion that you’ve come to as well.Bill: Yeah, I know David and he’s right, and I think this is a conclusion that most people have been in the business for a while would come to. It’s what I call… This is in contrast to perhaps the dominant quant paradigm which is picking up nickels in front of a steamroller. In other words, you can design systems like Long Term Capital or whatever that can give you smooth returns for a while but what those systems are doing, in my opinion, are what I call warehousing risk.So essentially it’s like… And I think it’s the same sort of thing that Dave is talking about, you can design a system that essentially accumulates risk in some sense, and that when it finally breaks out it happens in a big way. This is, of course, what happened in the lead up in the financial crisis. You had all these people developing these securitizations and all these sorts of things and they were just setting the system up for a major break.In the short term, while that was going on, everybody was happy because everybody was making money and the apparent risk was very low. That’s what I think a trend follower tends to do. I’m essentially taking risk - on an ongoing basis I’m realizing risk. I’m not warehousing it, I’m recognizing it and realizing it and that’s just part of the game. I think any sort of viable, long-term investment has to do that because otherwise it’s a disaster waiting to happen.Niels: Sure, A lot of people say,9 min
- BO08: How to really Define Risk
During a conversation I had with expert Bill Dreiss, we discussed many topics, all with great value. One part in particular I found really interesting, and which I would like to share with you, was when I asked Bill how he defines risk. If you would like to l know what Bill said then keep listening!
Listen to the full episode here.
-----
50 YEARS OF TREND FOLLOWING BOOK AND BEHIND-THE-SCENES VIDEO FOR ACCREDITED INVESTORS - CLICK HERE
-----
Follow Niels on Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube or via the TTU website.
IT’s TRUE ? – most CIO’s read 50+ books each year – get your FREE copy of the Ultimate Guide to the Best Investment Books ever written here.
And you can get a free copy of my latest book “Ten Reasons to Add Trend Following to Your Portfolio” here.
Learn more about the Trend Barometer here.
Send your questions to [email protected]
And please share this episode with a like-minded friend and leave an honest Rating & Review on iTunes or Spotify so more people can discover the podcast.
Copyright © 2025 – CMC AG – All Rights Reserved
----
PLUS: Whenever you're ready... here are 3 ways I can help you in your investment Journey:
1. eBooks that cover key topics that you need to know about
In my eBooks, I put together some key discoveries and things I have learnt during the more than 3 decades I have worked in the Trend Following industry, which I hope you will find useful. Click Here
2. Daily Trend Barometer and Market Score
One of the things I’m really proud of, is the fact that I have managed to published the Trend Barometer and Market Score each day for more than a decade...as these tools are really good at describing the environment for trend following managers as well as giving insights into the general positioning of a trend following strategy! Click Here
3. Other Resources that can help you
And if you are hungry for more useful resources from the trend following world...check out some precious resources that I have found over the years to be really valuable. Click Here
Privacy Policy
Disclaimer
9 min - 08 The Systematic Investor Series – November 5th, 2018Welcome to The Systematic Investor series. It's a great privilege for me to invite you to a behind the scenes conversation between some of my favorite systematic investors namely Jerry Parker and Moritz Seibert. We get on a "call" each week to discuss the events that took place through the lens of a Systematic Investor and how the trading strategies we work with are reacting. It's a raw and honest exploration and we hope you will join and be part of...not least by sending us questions that we can discuss. Please send your questions to [email protected]Episode Summary0:00 - Intro0:50 - Weekly recap20:15 - Top tweets38:50 - Question 1: Kyle; What’s the preferred method of dynamically adjusting/rebalancing a portfolio?49:30 - Question 2: Dave; Please describe ways to reduce risk in drawdowns52:50 - Question 3: Dimitry; What time frames do you consider too long to be effective (ex. quarterly)57:45- Question 4: Dimitry; At what point in drawdown (%) do you say something is wrong with the system?1:01:30 - Question 5: Robert; Do you typically trade the front month contract or use proprietary methods to select contracts?1:04:30 - Performance recapSubscribe on:1 hr 8 min
- 08 The Systematic Investor Series – November 5th, 2018Welcome to The Systematic Investor series. It's a great privilege for me to invite you to a behind the scenes conversation between some of my favorite systematic investors namely Jerry Parker and Moritz Seibert. We get on a "call" each week to discuss the events that took place through the lens of a Systematic Investor and how the trading strategies we work with are reacting. It's a raw and honest exploration and we hope you will join and be part of...not least by sending us questions that we can discuss. Please send your questions to [email protected]Episode Summary0:00 - Intro0:50 - Weekly recap20:15 - Top tweets38:50 - Question 1: Kyle; What’s the preferred method of dynamically adjusting/rebalancing a portfolio?49:30 - Question 2: Dave; Please describe ways to reduce risk in drawdowns52:50 - Question 3: Dimitry; What time frames do you consider too long to be effective (ex. quarterly)57:45- Question 4: Dimitry; At what point in drawdown (%) do you say something is wrong with the system?1:01:30 - Question 5: Robert; Do you typically trade the front month contract or use proprietary methods to select contracts?1:04:30 - Performance recapSubscribe on:1 hr 8 min
About Top Traders Unplugged
From the publisher's feed
Top Traders Unplugged is where the world’s best investors come to share how they think - not just what they trade.
Hosted by Niels Kaastrup-Larsen, the show goes deep into systematic trend following, global macro, and the principles that drive long-term success.
No forecasts. No fads. Just real conversations with hedge fund managers, economists, authors, and allocators - revealing the timeless ideas, mental models, and risk frameworks behind robust performance.
If you're building resilient portfolios, allocating capital, or simply looking to cut through the noise - this is your edge.
Clear thinking. Deep insights. Real experience.
🎧 New episodes weekly. Explore all episodes at toptradersunplugged.com https://toptradersunplugged.com
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