Topline

Sam Jacobs (CEO, Pavilion), AJ Bruno (CEO, QuotaPath), and Asad Zaman (CEO, Sales Talent Agency) debate exactly how to handle team members resisting AI adoption. When to leave them, when to nudge them, and when to fire them.

The discussion highlights real-world data, including how leading companies reach the top decile of AI adoption and the mechanics of running a 24-hour, four-squad AI hackathon to force experimentation. We also cover a critical performance heuristic from the past CPO of LaunchDarkly: if your team cannot execute simple tasks in a single day, you are falling behind. The conversation covers change management for revenue leaders, how to integrate AI into your daily enterprise pipeline generation, and why optimizing your GTM strategy means making hard decisions about personnel who refuse to adapt.

Key Takeaways:

>Driving AI adoption requires clear communication and rewarding good behavior, but AJ Bruno warns that leaders will ultimately have to "leave behind a handful of folks that are just not going to get on the bus, that aren't getting on board."

>When implementing new AI tools across your teams, Asad Zaman notes that expectations must scale with seniority, stating "I have more tolerance as I move lower in the org and less tolerance at the higher levels."

>AI should be treated as a creative partner for deeper analysis rather than a shortcut for unedited output, a reality Sam Jacobs emphasizes by warning "If you are just the pass through, you will be fired."

Connect with the Hosts

Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/

Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/

Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/

Topline is more than a YouTube Channel:

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

00:35 The Question: Employees resisting AI

01:39 Convert them or fire them?

02:07 Running internal AI hackathons

03:54 How CEOs drive adoption

05:08 Mapping tasks to AI agents

06:27 The "Robot Layer" in emails

07:40 Claire Vo's anti-dinosaur framework

08:07 The One-Day Execution Heuristic

12:52 Why you should be scared

14:30 Elevating junior AI talent

16:35 Reducing 3 hours of work to 45 mins

18:54 Summary: How to uplevel the org

21:09 The tension between speed and depth

21:52 Pass-through? Fired! FIRED!!!

Is your traditional SaaS experience becoming obsolete? In this new 20-minute rapid-fire format, Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman tackle a specific listener question: How does a senior operator transition from a legacy B2B SaaS role into a high-growth AI company?

The market is shifting toward a meritocracy where recent hands-on capability outweighs decades of tenure on a CV. The hosts break down exactly how to position yourself for companies like CoreWeave and EliseAI. They discuss why hiding your lack of technical engineering skills is a mistake, how to build a portfolio of "work product" using low-code tools like Replit and Claude, and why being able to articulate the failures of AI models is actually the strongest signal of fluency.

Key Takeaways:

- Stop relying on a static resume and start building a portfolio of practical applications. As Sam Jacobs notes, the hiring landscape has shifted so that "your work product needs to speak for itself... demonstrating that you're capable of working with these tools, not theoretically, but practically through your conversations that you're having with hiring managers."

- We are entering a career reset where agility beats seniority. Asad Zaman warns that "whenever there is a platform shift... the value of experience goes down a little bit," which creates a massive opportunity for younger leaders to "move up faster if you present in a very compelling manner because people are not looking at titles the same way."

- Cultural currency matters as much as technical skill. To be taken seriously by founders in this space, you must consume information where they do. As Asad Zaman puts it, "If they find out that you're not on AI Twitter or AI X, I think they will think you're not a serious person... the information is not gonna be found in these old school channels."

Connect with the Hosts:

Host: Sam Jacobs - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samfjacobs/

Host: AJ Bruno - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajbruno3/

Host: Asad Zaman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/azaman1/

Topline is not JUST a YouTube Channel!

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-podcast

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

01:58 Viewer Q: Transitioning to AI

02:48 Show Work Product, Not Just CVs

04:36 Applying SaaS Principles to AI

05:58 The AI-First Mentality

08:58 Articulating AI Limitations

11:30 The Meritocracy Shift

13:55 Unexpected AI Wins

21:27 Staying Culturally Relevant

24:29 Summary: How to Get Hired

Citrini Research claims AI agents will replace white-collar jobs by 2028, triggering a massive economic crash (and repricing of SaaS stocks). Sam Jacobs, AJ Bruno, and Asad Zaman analyze the validity of this thesis and the immediate impact on enterprise valuation multiples. The discussion moves to the practical realities of the innovator's dilemma, specifically how legacy software companies must cannibalize their own revenue to survive. They cover strategies for GTM transformation, the loss of pricing power in traditional SaaS, and why Gong's pivot to "Chief Revenue Architect" signals a deeper identity crisis in the market.

Key Takeaways:

* The hardest part of adapting to AI is destroying your current margins. Sam Jacobs argues that leaders get emotionally attached to ARR, noting that "the hardest part of the innovator's dilemma is price... the only way to get out of it is to... go towards a worse business" in the short term.

* Pivoting sounds great on paper, but is far harder in practice. Asad Zaman highlights the operational difficulty of telling investors about the actual steps involved; e.g. "I'm going to do a reorg and I'm then going to change my strategy that's actually going to increase churn... That's a war at the board level."

* Title changes don't fix structural issues. Asad Zaman and Sam Jacobs advise revenue leaders against accepting Gong's new "Chief Revenue Architect" title because "it's going to hurt your career moving forward... This sounds like you were demoted to rev ops to me."

Your Hosts:

Host: Sam Jacobs

Host: AJ Bruno

Host: Asad Zaman Topline is more than a Podcast!

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-newsletter

Watch on the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TOPLINE-Media

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast: https://www.joinpavilion.com/topline-slack

Chapters:

• 00:00 Intro

• 02:04 The Citrini Report Examined

• 07:05 Startups vs. Innovator's Dilemma

• 12:35 SaaS Valuation Repricing

• 15:29 Losing Pricing Leverage to AI

• 21:29 Is White Collar Work Dead?

• 25:10 Margin Compression Strategy

• 31:17 Restructuring Engineering Teams

• 35:09 Microsoft's Product Pivot

• 39:54 How AI Improves CEO Workflow

• 44:50 Gong's Chief Revenue Architect

• 51:17 Why the CRO Title Matters

• 55:14 AI Predictions Looking Ahead

Nick Turner, CEO of Dreamdata, joins Sam in this special episode of Topline Spotlight. They unpack a challenge many B2B leaders are facing right now: how do you raise capital in a market obsessed with AI when you're not an "AI-native" company? Nick shares his journey from CRO to CEO and what it was like stepping into the top job—only to immediately lead a $55M Series B raise in one of the toughest venture environments in recent history. After speaking with 73 investors in six weeks, he reflects on the realities of fundraising today, investor skepticism around revenue durability, and why profitable, efficient growth still wins. Nick brings nearly 20 years of commercial leadership experience scaling martech companies from Seed and Series A to $75M in revenue. Now leading Dreamdata—a Copenhagen-based B2B marketing attribution and activation platform—he's helping marketers prove what's working and take action on it.

Over the course of a few days, $300 billion in market cap was wiped out from public SaaS companies. Looking at the ten most notable US publicly traded SaaS companies over the last six months, they have lost upwards of $600 billion. The public markets are signaling that the classic VC-funded SaaS model is under massive pressure to show rapid AI integration and tangible revenue growth. This episode examines the fallout of the SaaS market correction and what it means for go-to-market operators. We discuss the shift away from legacy system of record platforms toward agile, AI-native solutions that eat labor budgets. The conversation covers how to adjust your GTM strategy if you are not growing at AI rates, why cash flow is now king over growth at all costs, and how to build a resilient enterprise pipeline generation engine. Finally, we share predictions on which SaaS stocks might bounce back from the dip.

Key Takeaways

• Companies failing to match AI-driven growth expectations are facing severe valuation resets from public markets, as AJ Bruno explains that "The argument you're hearing is AI will replace SaaS... that's the lazy argument... What AI is doing is it's compressing the time value of money."

• Software businesses unable to achieve hypergrowth must pivot to strict operational efficiency, with Sam Jacobs noting, "If you're generating $50 million growing 25% and you're just breaking even, I need you to either grow faster or be more profitable."

• Go-to-market professionals at legacy software companies have a limited opportunity to pivot their careers toward emerging technology, as Asad Zaman advises, "Right now the window is open... That window will get smaller and smaller as time grows by. So if you are not confident in your company, this is the time to make a shift and enter the new world."

Connect with the Hosts & Guests:

Host: Sam Jacobs

Host: AJ Bruno

Host: Asad Zaman

Topline is more than a YouTube Channel:

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to the SaaS Collapse

07:12 Billions Wiped From SaaS Market Caps

10:44 Compressing the Time Value of Money

14:27 Why Revenue Growth Trumps All

20:56 The Threat of AI Inference Costs

25:17 Shifting Careers to the AI World

28:21 Entering the Slow Growth Movement

35:27 Building Long Term Craft Businesses

38:29 Winning the Long Brand Game

42:03 Founder Burnout and Pivot Challenges

48:24 Managing Investor Board Expectations

52:02 Reengineering for a Platform Shift

60:57 Public SaaS Stock Rebound Picks

AJ Meyer, CEO of Pickle Robot, isn't betting on general-purpose humanoid robots. Instead, he's a believer in robots and Physical AI which solve specific, high-volume problems.

AJ joins Sam and Asad to reveal how he recently secured a nine-figure enterprise contract and why "boring" logistics tasks are the gateway to mass adoption of robots. But with mass adoption's opportunities, so too are there new risks. AJ shares that while physical safety is an important consideration, the cybersecurity risk of a networked robot workforce is what needs the most attention right now.

This and a ton more in this week's episode of Topline with Sam Jacobs (CEO @ Pavilion) and Asad Zaman (CEO @ Sales Talent Agency).

Thanks for tuning in! Catch new episodes every Sunday

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters: 00:00 Teaser and Introduction to AJ Meyer

02:53 The Convergence of Physical and Digital AI

05:50 Safety Constraints and the "Acrobat" Robot Disaster

09:19 Mobile Manipulation vs. General Purpose Humanoids

12:47 Cybersecurity Risks in Connected Robot Networks

18:52 AI Surveillance and Authoritarian Risks

28:01 Debunking the Myth of Unskilled Labor

34:54 The Moving Goalposts of AGI

38:19 Solving the Open World Generalization Problem

42:09 Why Foundation Models Need Systems Engineering 48:23 Designing Business Models for Enterprise and Mid-Market

53:20 The Nine-Figure "ChatGPT Moment" for Robotics

58:14 Transferring SaaS Go-To-Market Skills to Hardware

01:03:45 Taste and Judgment as Career Differentiators

01:07:50 Hiring Needs and Closing Thoughts

Mark Roberge is calling it now: we are about to witness the highest failure rate for a single cohort of startups in the history of tech.

As author of Science of Scaling, and co-founder of Stage 2 Capital, Mark joins the pod to dismantle the "growth at all costs" mindset that still plagues founders. He explains why the assembly-line sales model is dead and how AI will force a return to the full-cycle "rainmaker" rep.

**Key moments:**

The AI Bubble: Why the index fund of the last two years of AI investments is likely doomed.

Fixing Your ICP: And how optimizing for CAC or inbound volume without ICP fundamentals in place is a recipe for disaster

The 80% Rule: How AI moves reps from 25% selling time to 80%, and what that means for the future of SDR, AE, and CS functions

LIR - What it is and Why It Matters: Why every board deck needs a a LIR slide to predict product-market fit before revenue numbers hit

**Note:** Mark is donating 100% of the proceeds from his new book to mental health causes. Grab a copy of *The Science of Scaling* on Amazon!

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction: Mark Roberge and The Science of Scaling

03:44 Founder Turnover and Loyalty in the AI Era

06:18 Navigating Founder Burnout and Strategic Pivots

16:30 Predicting High Failure Rates for AI-Native Startups

18:57 The Origin Story Behind The Science of Scaling

24:51 Why Most Companies Define Their ICP Wrong

28:34 The Leading Indicator of Retention (LIR) Framework

32:30 Real-World Example: Shifting ICP Based on Retention

37:22 Who Should Own Product-Market Fit?

43:23 Transitioning GTM Strategies from SaaS to AI

47:29 The End of Specialization: Collapsing GTM Roles

51:12 Solving GTM Inefficiency by Increasing Selling Time

56:50 How to Pilot the Consolidated "Ninja AE" Role

01:04:29 Designing Organizations for Rainmakers vs. Average Reps

01:08:01 Mental Health, Gratitude, and Closing Thoughts

The AI arms race is getting ugly. With top talent bouncing between Thinking Machines and OpenAI, the guys debate a critical question for every leader: Is loyalty dead, or has Silicon Valley just stopped pretending?

Sam, Asad, and AJ discuss the ethics and dangers of the "secure the bag" mindset and what it means for building enduring companies. They also pivot to the tactical side of leadership, breaking down why most managers wait too long to fire and the hard truth that "what you allow, you encourage."

Key topics:

• The Thinking Machines exodus: Performance issues or corporate sabotage?

• Do ethics actually matter when the prize is AGI?

• The one management mantra every GTM leader needs for a high performing team

• Quitting the content hamster wheel: The hosts' priorities for the next chapter.

Thanks for tuning in! Catch new episodes every Sunday

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:00 Intro: Top Line, Pavilion Gold, and Today's Agenda

02:28 The Thinking Machines Exodus and OpenAI's Hiring Spree

08:08 Capital Incentives: Why Tech Talent Has Become Mercenary

14:03 The Core Debate: Do Values Matter in Modern Tech?

18:41 The "Get the Bag" Mentality vs. Building Forever Companies

23:00 The Risks of Accelerating into a Future Without Ethics

31:28 Impact on GTM: Shorter Tenures and Transactional Hiring

34:25 Why Swiftly Correcting Underperformance is an Act of Loyalty

45:00 Why Organizational Values Are Useless Without Defined Behaviors

01:00:38 Final Question: What Are You Under-Prioritizing for 2026?

AJ and Asad talk about one of the most insane job markets we've ever seen, the rise of AI agents, and the future of AI's talent wars.

Thanks for tuning in! Catch new episodes every Sunday

Subscribe to Topline Newsletter.

Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech.

Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction and Hosts

00:32 The Golden Age of Sales

00:55 Sales Roles and AI

12:30 Branding vs. Performance Marketing

21:05 The Role of Brand in B2B Tech

30:18 The Notion Dilemma

40:40 The Importance of Letting Go

50:39 The Golden Era of Sales

59:59 Reading Tips and Longevity Investments

Sam, Asad, and AJ are back to debate the hard numbers shaping the GTM landscape in 2026. The consensus? The freeze is thawing, but the rules have changed.

Sam predicts we've entered the "Year of the Deal." Investors are exhausted, founders are tired, and the market is finally ready to clear—even if that means restructuring cap tables to take the win and move on.

Asad brings the sobering data on the "Great Concentration," revealing that almost half of venture capital went to a surprisingly small number of companies, while AJ argues that without a compelling AI narrative, traditional SaaS assets will face a brutal valuation ceiling.

Chapters:

00:36 Welcome to 2026: Intro and Hosts

02:30 Quiz Pro Quo

08:56 Sam's Prediction: The Year of the Deal

13:53 AI-Native vs. Traditional Investment Trends

16:42 Founder Exhaustion and the Acceptance of Lower Exits

19:40 The VC Perspective on Clearing "Vintage" Funds

24:00 Advice for Seed Founders: Shut Down or Sell?

28:22 Sam's Bearish Take on OpenAI's Financials

31:12 Testing the Stickiness of AI Models

38:03 Asad's Prediction: The Era of Capital Concentration

43:21 Why 2026 Will See Increased Layoffs

46:37 The Confusion of a High-Churn Job Market

50:19 Shoutouts and Personal Reflections