Uncensored CMO

I've always had a bit of a love, hate relationship with Cannes. It's wonderful that we celebrate creativity with this event, but seeing how the festival rewards a certain type of creativity, particularly short term activation and purpose recently, I'm starting to wonder how effective Cannes Lions winners are in the real world.

So who better to talk to about this than Tom Goodwin, who isn't short of uncensored opinions, to find out what he really thinks of Cannes. Is it just a jolly for the industry? or is it something more?

-> Listen to my previous episode with Tom

• Whether Web3 is the next big thing
• How dis-interested we are in real people’s lives
• The cost of luxury opinions
• Having a seat at the Davos table
• Why normal people do all the wrong things
• How purpose has replaced creativity
• Making good advertising that sells
• How big tech stole the creative football
• Comparing Cannes to previous years
• How the Cannes experience can vary
• The status symbol of Cannes passes
• The future of travel to Cannes
• Tom’s view on Gary Vee’s talk
• Inventing the perfect Cannes
• The case for seducing and entertaining

For the 50th episode of Uncensored CMO, I'm live in Cannes to talk about the triple threat to creative effectiveness. Why effectiveness has been declining over the years, how attention has impacted mental availability and what we can do about it. Fresh off the stage at Cannes Lions 2022, Peter Field, Orlando Wood and Karen Nelson-Field talk us through what they're calling Triple Jeopardy.

From Peter Field himself: "Triple Jeopardy is three things: the withdrawal of money from brand and putting it into performance marketing and the short-term on a massive scale. That has drained the mental availability fuel supply, if you like"

What we covered in this episode

• Karen, Peter and Orlando's triple jeopardy Cannes panel
• How effectiveness has progressively declined throughout the years
• What's causing the decline? Is it a focus on short term activation vs long term brand building?
• Why are you calling this triple jeopardy?
• Why short term activation is damaging mental availability
• Measuring inwards vs outward
• Why we need to change attention metrics
• Active vs passive attention
• 85% of ads sit below the attention memory threshold
• Viewablity metrics are failing us
• How the elasticity of attention varies
• So how do we solve this? How do we sustain attention?
• Why we need more right-brained features in advertising
• What captures attention?
• Are you paying attention to this very message on this podcast? (and in these show notes?)

Margaret Jobling is the Group Chief Marketing Officer at NatWest. Margaret has spent the majority of her marketing career in FMCG, before to joining the utilities sector in 2014, as Director of Marketing at British Gas. At the beginning of 2016 she moved into a CMO role at Centrica, transforming the firm’s marketing capabilities across all regions. Then in 2020, joining NatWest as CMO.

In September 2020, Margaret was announced as one of Marketing Week’s Top 100 Most Effective Marketers for her work at Centrica.

What we covered in this episode:

• How Marg went from laser chemistry to marketing
• Blagging her way through her first job in marketing
• Capturing an emotional response in a rational way
• How to look smart giving creative feedback to an agency
• The ABC of assessing a piece of creative
• Why marketers face a much more complex context today
• How marketing is like sex and driving
• Using the language of business in the Board room
• Why marketers should focus on customers and commercials first
• The two hats every CMO wears
• Creating a culture where people can test and learn
• Inverting the pyramid and supporting the marketing team
• Why the store manager is king
• The power of showcasing what has gone wrong
• Marg’s hidden showreel of what went wrong
• Jon’s best training talking about his biggest failures
• Why Marg wouldn’t go back to fast moving consumer goods
• The importance of a consistent customer experience
• How service sector and FMCG differ
• Defining what marketing is
• The inspiration behind ‘tomorrow starts today’
• Why procrastination is the largest barrier to your success
• What NatWest is doing to protect the climate
• How banks can finance a greener economy
• Which technology we should be paying attention to
• Why not even the tech giants know what the future holds
• If it saves time, money or effort it will work
• What being in the Top 100 CMO charts does for Marg
• Leaving the world in a better state than we found it

Tom Goodwin is an author of a quote you might just have heard of: "Uber, the world’s largest taxi company, owns no vehicles. Facebook, the world’s most popular media owner, creates no content. Alibaba, the most valuable retailer, has no inventory. And Airbnb, the world’s largest accommodation provider, owns no real estate. Something interesting is happening."

He does other things too, like spending an immense amount of time on LinkedIn and writing some seriously impressive books - two of them in fact - Digital Darwinism 1 and 2 (out now in the UK).

What we covered in this episode:

• From architecture to advertising
• Coping with job rejection letters
• Jon blags himself a job
• The terrifying feeling of going solo
• Being a Decathlete rather than sprinter
• The importance of saying No
• How the industry lost its way
• Why customer service has been lost
• The story behind THAT quote
• Potential applications of the insight and its limitations
• How we may be coming full circle
• Why is better to leverage existing tech rather than gambling on new
• The challenge of the Metaverse and how society will reject it
• How technology should be making us more human not less
• Technology as augmentation rather than replacement
• Why nothing new has happened in the past 8 years
• The power of Nowism vs Futurism
• The biggest barriers to innovation inside larger corporate businesses
• Where the next big innovations should be
• The ‘in the office’ auto reply
• Tom’s new book is out now

Links

• Follow me on Twitter: @uncensoredCMO
• Follow me on LI: LinkedIn
• My website: www.uncensoredcmo.com
• Email me: [email protected]

It's 40 years since the founding of one of the most famous and iconic advertising agencies; BBH or Bartle, Bogle, Hegarty. Today I speak with founder, Sir John Hegarty to find out what it's been like to be at the helm of one of the world's most successful ad agencies for 4 decades.

We take a look back over a long history of advertising to see what's changed, what we can learn and maybe what new techniques today are worth investing in. We touch on many of the great campaigns that come out to BBH, two of my favourites in particular being Levi's from the early eighties and more recently, Audi, which was in fact, one of their founding clients and spanned the entire 40 year history of the agency. As you would expect an amazing storyteller full of wit and wisdom and lots of great advice.

Here's what we covered:

• How Sir John got into advertising
• What advice he would give after 5 decades in Advertising
• Why you should entertain rather than inform
• How advertising followed cultural trends
• Why advertising appears to be making worse creative but expect better results
• The lack of evidence for brand building via social media
• How BBH turned Levi’s around and inspired their own agency positioning
• The making of Levi’s iconic Laundrette advert
• Why the model ended up wearing Boxer shorts
• How Levi’s ad revitalised famous music tracks
• The longest running BBH client
• How the ‘factory visit’ inspired one of the most famous taglines
• Why being illogical can be the right thing to do
• Being defined by your work
• The importance of creative people at the top of the company
• How creativity helps solve business problems
• Advice to clients for how to get the best out of their agency
• How the audience ended up coming last in our priorities
• Why we are all making creative decisions and how to be more creative
• The importance of being Fearless and not being afraid to fail
• Advice for selling in creative ideas to clients
• The one piece of creative work John is most proud of
• Why purpose gets you on the pitch but doesn’t win you the game
• Advice to a 20 year old John

Links

• Follow me on Twitter: @uncensoredCMO
• Follow me on LI: LinkedIn
• My website: www.uncensoredcmo.com
• Email me: [email protected]

Pip Murray is the founder of Pip & Nut, which she launched in 2015 and it's now stocked in over 3,000 stores around the UK. It's the fastest growing nut butter brand around, and it's clear to see why. Pip is full of stories and insights in journey building the company, from humble beginnings in her kitchen and at craft fairs to becoming a staple brand on the shelves of all major supermarkets.

What we covered in this episode:

• Why Pip started a nut butter business
• From kitchen table to full scale production
• The constant trial and error to find the perfect recipe
• The confidence that comes from being close to your customer
• The importance of the right manufacturing partner and selling them the dream
• The challenge of minimum production run when you get started
• Pip&Nut’s first customer and the importance of focussing on it
• What to do when you have no marketing budget
• Bootstrapping and crowdfunding to cover the first couple of years
• The pro’s and con’s of starting a business when you are young
• How easy it is to convince yourself our of an idea and the power of intelligent naivety
• How the biggest doubts come in as you scale and stakes get bigger
• The opportunity cost of doing too much
• Betting big on brand identity from the start
• Inspiration from the B&B studios portfolio and finding the right chemistry
• The 3 things every Private Equity company does when they acquire a brand
• Finding the right design and why Pip used her name in the brand identity
• The challenge and opportunity of a national retailer listing
• The trade off between focussed distribution and full scale distribution
• Why keeping it tight is so important
• What we can learn from the best soft drink launches
• The advantage of playing in the niche to begin with
• Cash flow challenges of a scale up
• Sources of funding for growth and finding the right people to invest
• The messy nature of startups and the power of empathy from an experienced investor
• What the hardest moment of Pip’s journey taught her
• Divesting yourself and learning to delegate to the team
• The nerve wracking moment of going on TV for the first time
• The importance of B-Corp status and making a sustainable brand
• How Pip would define success
• The energy you gain from a crisis
• Why the best way to learn is doing
• Pip’s advice for her 24 year old self

Peter Weinberg and Jon Lombardo are the heads of research and development at the B2B Institute, a think tank at LinkedIn that studies the laws of growth in B2B. You can follow Peter and Jon on LinkedIn.

What we covered in this episode:

• Introducing the youngest B2B marketers on the planet
• Jon & Peters favourite Super Bowl ads
• The very low hurdle of writing a B2B article
• How half the economy is in fact B2B
• Is B2B really different to B2C
• Sales vs Product led B2B companies
• The Product Delusion and why it damages marketing
• How B2B ads compare to B2C on long term brand building
• What everyone can learn from Salesforce
• How brand advertising is good for sales and talent
• The power of cuddly furry animals
• Publicity vs Persuasion in Advertising
• Plug for ‘Why does the Pedlar Sing’ by Paul Feldwick
• Introducing the 95:5 rule
• The best search engine is the one in your head
• The importance of aligning marketing with finance
• Sponsoring the first ever B2B Cannes Lion
• Advertising is the tax for having a bad product
• Their least successful Marketing Week article
• Liberty Mutual and the power of sound
• What we can learn from Boston beers Super Bowl winning Ad
• How emotion regulates what we pay attention to
• Why characters are the most underused tactic in advertising
• Wear in vs Wear out and why incentives for agency and client aren’t aligned
• The Originality Delusion and the power of old ideas
• Bitcoin maximalism and the power of blending something old and new

Andrew Robertson has been President and Chief Executive Officer of BBDO Worldwide since June 2004, and has worked with major clients including AT&T, ExxonMobil, FedEx, Ford, GE, Mars Inc, PepsiCo, SAP and Visa.

It has been named Network of the Year at Cannes a record-setting seven times and the world's most awarded agency network according to The Gunn Report/World Advertising Research Center for thirteen years in a row. Since 2005, BBDO has been honoured as Global Agency of the Year in Ad Age, Adweek (three times) and Campaign (five times). BBDO Worldwide was also recognized as the Most Effective Network in the world by the Global Effies in 2011, 2014, 2015 and 2017.

Andrew first came to BBDO in the UK in 1995, joining Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO where he subsequently served as Chief Executive. In 2001, he moved to BBDO North America to serve as President and CEO.

He began his advertising career at Ogilvy & Mather, London as a Media Planner. He switched to Account Management and was appointed to the Board of Ogilvy & Mather in 1986. In 1989, he joined J. Walter Thompson and in November 1990, was appointed Chief Executive of WCRS.

Andrew has a degree in Economics from City of London University. He currently serves on the Boards of Autism Speaks and Hope Funds for Cancer Research. He is a past Chairman of The Advertising Council.

What we covered in this episode:

• Falling into advertising after starting out in civil engineering
• Why Andrew learnt selling insurance and gambling through the night
• The late night conversation that led Andrew to advertising
• 18 years at the helm of a global adverting business
• Why getting the people right is the most important task of any CEO
• The importance of time spent with customers
• Learning to love problems and embrace them as opportunities
• Loving what your business creates
• Where the trophies of ‘The most awarded network agency in the world’ are kept
• Why ‘meaning it’ is the secret to staying on top of your creative game
• Building a strong network bottom up with strong local creative agencies
• Attracting a limited pool of truly exceptional people
• Why emotion is the most effective thing you can do
• The power of platform ideas
• Don’t understand the value of craft
• Calculating the downside risk to help you take the leaps that lead to upside
• The pursuit of certainty leads to the norm
• How the snickers creative idea was ‘caught’ in a line of copy
• Why all great ideas are obvious after their invention
• The power of a new way of seeing an old idea
• Why Andrew’s favourite ad was one that delivered bad news
• The benefits of sleeping with a homeless guy
• It’s hard not to buy from someone who makes you smile
• How confidence in the team beats the silver bullet when it comes to pitching
• The expectation of agencies to deliver effortlessly seamless and connected communication at every tough point
• Half my advertising is wasted but it’s gets a lot worse in digital

Jon chats with CMO of Boston Beer, Lesya Lysyj, who has nearly 30 years of marketing experience in the food and beverage industry. Prior to joining Boston Beer, she served as President U.S. (Sales and Marketing) for Welch’s Foods.

Watch the ad here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9GUnNAL9yY

What we covered in this episode

• Counting down the Top 10 Super Bowl ads of 2022
• The power of humour and nostalgia for Lays
• Why babies are the stars of many Super Bowl ads
• The reason car ads are so predictable
• Robo puppy and why Kia made the best car ad
• The winning Super ad of 2022 and no it wasn’t a set up
• Inventing ‘Your cousin from Boston’ and why it works
• The power of sticking to the same creative idea
• Why we get bored of our own ads before our customer does
• The case for releasing a Super Bowl ad early
• Creating 2 billion PR impressions from the campaign
• The power of Your Cousin From Boston lock up
• Taking a big swing with the company dollars
• Why a CMO can’t enjoy the Super Bowl when they are advertising
• The actual robot dogs that protect Boston Dynamics
• How Boston Beer approach testing advertising
• Why the idea you like is not always the best idea
• Founder Jim and his famous post it notes
• How to get payback from a Super Bowl ad
• Lesya’s top 3 tips for making a winning Super Bowl ad
• Why the CFO is such a fan of System1
• How do you top a winning Super Bowl ad

Byron Sharp is a Professor of Marketing Science and Director of the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute – the world’s largest centre for research into marketing. 

His first book How Brands Grow: what marketers don’t know has been called one of the most influential marketing books of the past decade (Warc, 2015) and was voted marketing book of the year by AdAge readers. In 2015 he published the follow-up How Brands Grow Part 2 with Professor Jenni Romaniuk. He has also written a textbook Marketing: Theory, Evidence, Practice which reflects modern knowledge about marketing and evidence-based thinking. The revised 2nd editionof the textbook was published in 2017.

Byron has co-hosted, with Professor Jerry Wind, two conferences at the Wharton Business School on the laws of advertising, and is on the editorial board of five journals.

What we covered in this episode:

• Being turned down for a publishing deal for How Brands Grow
• Why experts are terrible at predicting the future
• Marketers getting distracted by Purpose with little empirical support for it
• The ethical reason we should be focussed on the best return on marketing
• Byron responds to Peter Field’s Purpose research
• The top marketing myths exposed by How Brands Grow
• The No.1 surprise in How Brands Grow
• Why your customers are mostly the same as your competitors
• The law of Double Jeopardy and why we are over exposed to our own brands heavy buyers
• The paradox of very small brands having a larger customer base than expected
• Physical and Mental availability overlap
• How similar the top brands look vs ten years ago
• Lucozade sugar tax backlash and how that proved the laws of marketing
• The surprising importance of light and very light buyers
• Why a lot of your sales come from people who haven’t bought you for at least a year
• The importance of not changing your design
• Whether the laws vary depending on category
• Why market research is designed to highlight difference rather than similarity
• The importance of distinctiveness and being remembered
• What Levitt, Kotler and Akker got wrong about differentiation
• Why even bankers can’t tell their banks apart
• The power of pink concrete mixers
• Asking an 8 year old to tell you what’s different about your brand
• The real role of advertising for your brand
• How search works just like point of sale to catch people as they fall
• How the laws remain the same in B2B
• Why Apple isn’t your typical brand when it comes to selling product differentiation
• Why Ehrenberg Bass has just own distinctive asset
• Why fruit doesn’t need packaging
• The biggest unanswered question in marketing
• Plans for Ehrenberg Bass to make training available to marketers
• What Byron missed out in How Brands Grow
• The importance of marketing the research and highlighting the implications
• Describing Mark Ritson as the best business journalist in the world
• What Byron thinks about the environment and the role of marketing in it