Uncensored CMO

Byron Sharp is a Professor of Marketing Science and Director of the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute – the world’s largest centre for research into marketing. 

His first book How Brands Grow: what marketers don’t know has been called one of the most influential marketing books of the past decade (Warc, 2015) and was voted marketing book of the year by AdAge readers. In 2015 he published the follow-up How Brands Grow Part 2 with Professor Jenni Romaniuk. He has also written a textbook Marketing: Theory, Evidence, Practice which reflects modern knowledge about marketing and evidence-based thinking. The revised 2nd editionof the textbook was published in 2017.

Byron has co-hosted, with Professor Jerry Wind, two conferences at the Wharton Business School on the laws of advertising, and is on the editorial board of five journals.

What we covered in this episode:

• Being turned down for a publishing deal for How Brands Grow
• Why experts are terrible at predicting the future
• Marketers getting distracted by Purpose with little empirical support for it
• The ethical reason we should be focussed on the best return on marketing
• Byron responds to Peter Field’s Purpose research
• The top marketing myths exposed by How Brands Grow
• The No.1 surprise in How Brands Grow
• Why your customers are mostly the same as your competitors
• The law of Double Jeopardy and why we are over exposed to our own brands heavy buyers
• The paradox of very small brands having a larger customer base than expected
• Physical and Mental availability overlap
• How similar the top brands look vs ten years ago
• Lucozade sugar tax backlash and how that proved the laws of marketing
• The surprising importance of light and very light buyers
• Why a lot of your sales come from people who haven’t bought you for at least a year
• The importance of not changing your design
• Whether the laws vary depending on category
• Why market research is designed to highlight difference rather than similarity
• The importance of distinctiveness and being remembered
• What Levitt, Kotler and Akker got wrong about differentiation
• Why even bankers can’t tell their banks apart
• The power of pink concrete mixers
• Asking an 8 year old to tell you what’s different about your brand
• The real role of advertising for your brand
• How search works just like point of sale to catch people as they fall
• How the laws remain the same in B2B
• Why Apple isn’t your typical brand when it comes to selling product differentiation
• Why Ehrenberg Bass has just own distinctive asset
• Why fruit doesn’t need packaging
• The biggest unanswered question in marketing
• Plans for Ehrenberg Bass to make training available to marketers
• What Byron missed out in How Brands Grow
• The importance of marketing the research and highlighting the implications
• Describing Mark Ritson as the best business journalist in the world
• What Byron thinks about the environment and the role of marketing in it

Abba is the CMO at the FinTech start up Habito, the fastest growing online mortgage broker in the UK. Prior to Habito, Abba worked as director of strategy at News UK, pioneering the moves towards digital content and as a planner at agencies UM and Carat.

What we covered in this episode:

• Begging Dan the founder for a new job
• How Habito are disrupting the Mortgage market
• The power of anger and frustration to fuel business
• Convincing Uncommon to be a founding client
• Taking inspiration from Skateboard art and Santa Cruz
• How to make mortgages ‘gnarly’
• Switching off advertising due to too much demand
• How to measure the impact of your campaign
• Why Habito went straight to TV as a channel
• How mortgages can ruin your sex life
• Producing the mortgage Karma Sutra
• Writing an erotic novel about mortgages
• Why Habito sponsored the gnarly world of Skateboarding UK
• What it takes to train for an Ironman
• Business lessons from Ironman
• The generosity of the UK Fintech scene
• Abba’s top advice for getting into Tech
• How to create ‘strategic serendipity’

• Where to go for a 7 x salary mortgage

Kev Chesters is the co-founder of Harbour Collective and co-author of "The Creative Nudge: Simple Steps to Help You Think Differently". Previously Kev has been Chief Strategy Officer at Ogilvy UK, Head of Planning at W+K and Planning Director at S&S.

What we covered in this episode:

• How Kev got sued by Dr Dre
• Bumping into famous people in urinals
• Why creativity in business really matters
• The power of advertising to sell jeans
• Why creative is not the same as making ads
• The creative power of business constraints
• How dancing horses can sell mobile tariffs
• The feel good power of internet memes
• Why creativity is the underdog’s most competitive advantage
• How short deadlines actual reduce creativity
• Why nothing good ever came out of a workshop
• The importance of never giving up
• Jon’s most creative achievement with no budget
• What would you do if your budget was your Dad’s money
• The power of discontent to drive creativity
• How being scared signals real creativity
• The tyranny of average that holds us back from being brave
• Why creative is the only key to progress
• How to create the conditions for creativity to thrive
• Why anybody can be creative in the broadest sense
• The twin conspiracy of biology and societal conditioning
• The power of positive dissent and why consensus should be killed
• Why ‘the meeting’ is never the actual meeting
• What you can learn from the Devil’s advocate
• The importance of failure to our success
• Getting used to the feeling of fear
• Creative nudges that will help you become more creative
• How algorithms are great for efficiency but terrible for exploration
• The importance of being unreasonable
• What we can all learn from Lady GaGa

Tony's Chocolonely is on a mission to make chocolate free of child-labour and slavery worldwide. I catch up with Lord Chocolonely III, or Ben Greensmith who runs Tony's in the UK about what it's like to run a mission-focused challenger brand in 2021.

About Ben

Ben started his career in food and drink over 20 years ago at IRI and then working for Unilever in a mixture of sales and category management roles. He joined innocent drinks in 2007 and was there for 8 years, holding a number of senior commercial roles and helping build the UK business that was eventually sold to Coca-Cola in 2013 for £0.5 billion. He left in 2015 to join Proper Snacks, most recently holding the position of Chief Operating Officer. Ben has been working for Tony’s Chocolonely since September 2018 as employee number 1 in the UK and is responsible for leading the business in the UK and Ireland. His official job title is Lord Chocolonely iii.

About Tony's

At Tony’s Chocolonely our mission is to make chocolate free of child-labour and slavery; not just our chocolate but all chocolate worldwide. Tony’s has been around for 15 years in our home country, the Netherlands, where we’re now the number 1 brand with a 20% market share. Tony’s launched in the UK in January 2019 and already the 6th biggest chocolate bar brand and the fastest growing.

What we covered in this episode

• Being named Lord Chocolonely iii
• How the packaging was invented in 15mins
• The truth about inequality in the cocoa supply chain
• The food unwrapped programme that inspired Tony’s
• How Tony prosecuted himself for crimes against chocolate
• The lonely battle to end child labour that created Chocolonely
• The principles that ensure Tony’s helps make production slave free
• Why Tony’s wants the competition to copy them
• Challenging the removal of an endorsement by Slave Free Org
• The different ways Tony’s are making an impact on living wages
• Why Tony’s bars are created with unequal chunks
• How Ben convinced Tony’s to let him launch the brand in the UK
• Creating a £30m chocolate business in just 3 years
• Challenger brand lessons from Tony’s
• How Tony’s rate of sale compares to the Chocolate giants
• The price per gram of Tony’s and how it compares
• Creating headline news with an Advent calendar
• SPOILER ALERT: some days may contain extra chocolate
• Celebrity endorsement for the calendar
• Customer reaction to the missing chocolate on Day 8
• Getting on Have I Got News For You
• What should be making the news
• Results of Uncensored CMO poll asking whether it was a good move
• Why Tony’ back a sugar tax and High Sugar, Fat & Salt (HFSS) legislation
• Answering the challenge of being responsible for making people fat
• How to protect your culture as your business grows
• Crazy about chocolate and serious about people
• The power of healthy dissatisfaction
• How to be more outspoken in 2022
• The importance of fitness to create energy for the demands of the job

How do you run marketing for one of the best known insurance brands in the UK, Direct Line? That's exactly what I find out from their CMO, Mark Evans, who has been at the company for a decade.

What we covered in this episode:

• Starting a podcast during lockdown
• Where Mark gets his energy from
• The importance of being tuned into your purpose
• Career lessons from Jimmy Carr
• Why you should always coach from a position of strength
• What you can learn from a World Cup winning Rugby squad
• Lessons from being made redundant 4 times
• Why you should embrace your failure and learn from it
• How Mark survived a decade as CMO at Direct Line
• Why you should fire yourself every 18 months
• Whether it’s better to work for a Marketing or Finance CEO
• Why marketing needs to be more than the ‘colouring in department’
• The importance of knowing your numbers
• Why Direct Line decided to retire Winston Wolf
• The success trap - improving your game even when you are winning
• How Direct Line positioned itself for success
• Flipping ‘last brand standing’ to becoming the ‘first brand standing’
• Discovering the importance of insurance the hard way
• How covid changed the new ‘We’re on it’ campaign
• Topping the charts on the System1 insurance category
• Why it’s worth sticking with the same agency
• Who is tipped to be the next Superhero
• Record profits in a tough year
• How Churchill make Insurance feels effortless
• Churchill’s plans to Chill some more in 2022
• The power of music to change our the audience feels
• Marks most popular podcast episode on ‘oh the places we go’
• The importance of being true to your audience

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• Twitter | @uncensoredCMO
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Contact me:

• Website | www.uncensoredcmo.com
• Email – [email protected]

Dom Dwight former editor & journalist who, just over a decade ago, discovered a passion for doing marketing properly, most notably through Yorkshire Tea but with a growing focus on coffee for Taylors of Harrogate. He's on a mission to prove that brands can connect with consumers in a way that benefits business, people, and (if it's not too ridiculous) the world.

What we covered in this episode:

• What a Proper Yorkshire Tea business card would look like
• From journalist to CMO of the UK’s best loved Tea brand
• Starting out on Twitter in 2008 to connect with ex pats who love tea
• Going from No.3 Tea brand to No.1 in just a couple of years
• Transforming market share from 13% to 33%
• Yorkshire Tea for Yorkshire people using Yorkshire water
• Why communication was the strategy to unlock growth
• How social media informed Yorkshire Tea’s tone of voice
• The serious case for more humour
• Discovering the ‘where everything’s done proper’ idea with Lucky Generals
• Why targeting new users was critical for brand growth
• How well known Yorkshire celebrities helped the brand reach new users
• Getting Sean Bean to run the company induction
• Using the Brownlee Brothers for deliveries
• Asking Michael Parkinson to do your interviews
• Hiring Kaiser Chiefs to produce the hold music
• Focussing on quality over quantity for Ad production
• Turning the Advertising engines off during covid but gaining some useful tailwinds
• Jon tests Dom on his ability to predict which Ad perform best on System1
• The power of movement to capture our attention
• The importance of creative instincts when making a great ad
• Why trust is so important when delegating to your team
• How Yorkshire Tea discovered a sense of humour
• In house social on a budget vs agency high production
• The power of low ego at Lucky Generals
• Inventing the social distancing teapot during lockdown
• Quietly going carbon neutral and painting the story on pack
• The importance of culture to the performance of the brand
• Time invested in genuinely asking ‘how people are; that supports during challenges
• The Importance of a stable management team over the long term
• Turning loyal brand drinks into advocates to recruit new ones
• Customer complaints about not screening the full version of the Sean Bean TV ad
• Debating which Christmas ads work and which don’t
• Praising the power of M&S ‘this is no ordinary’ Advertising
• Yorkshire Tea’s ambition take on the World

In this episode I talk with editor-in-chief of Marketing Week, Russell Parsons. We talk about our favourite news stories of the year, the Mark Ritson effect and if we should still be putting "digital" in job titles.

Russell's Bio:
Russell is the award-winning editor of the UK’s most prominent marketing title. He is responsible for leading Marketing Week’s content strategy across several platforms. Russell is also a trusted authority on marketing issues, delivering keynote speeches and hosting and appearing on panels at industry events. He first joined Marketing Week as a reporter in 2009.

What we covered in this episode:

• How Russell became editor-in-chief of Marketing Week
• Making decisions based on effectiveness rather than efficiency
• Discovering purpose back in 2011
• The Mark Ritson effect on Marketing Week
• Why every marketer should claim to be digital first in a job interview
• How Unilever put digital transformation in the CMO remit
• The importance of putting strategy ahead of digital tactics
• Is B2B really that different to B2C
• The one question Mark Ritson always gets asked
• Why we are all B2B marketers but just don’t realise it
• What Peter Field really said about Purpose
• The importance of demonstrating business impact
• How Direct Line have focussed on their real purpose
• The biggest bit of good news for every Marketer
• Putting performance into brand and brand into performance
• Building the world a better funnel with Tom Roach
• Russell’s mission to make Marketing Week as nerdy as possible
• If its fundamental and flawed it gets read
• Why all models are wrong but some are useful
• Fake gold BrewDog cans, ASA bans and employee letters
• Why negative BrewDog stories might create a recruitment problem
• Russell’s favourite Christmas ad of 2021
• The case for Aldi being the quintessential Christmas ad
• Predictions for what we will be talking about in 2022

Rory's Bio

Rory Sutherland is the Vice Chairman of Ogilvy, an attractively vague job title which has allowed him to co-found a behavioral science practice within the agency. ​Before founding Ogilvy Change, Rory was a copywriter and creative director at Ogilvy for over 20 years, having joined as a graduate trainee in 1988. He has variously been President of the IPA, Chair of the Judges for the Direct Jury at Cannes, and has spoken at TED Global. He writes regular columns for the Spectator, Market Leader and Impact, and also occasional pieces for Wired. He is the author of two books: The Wiki Man, available on Amazon at prices between £1.96 and £2,345.54, depending on whether the algorithm is having a bad day, and Alchemy, The surprising Power of Ideas which don't make Sense, to be published in the UK and US in March 2019.

Buy the book, Transport for Humans.

What we covered in this episode:

• What Rory thinks of Orlando’s new book
• The danger of big data, economic theory and the assumption of ergodicity
• The strangeness of focus groups
• Why we’re all trying to project the ‘right answer’ in public forums
• Why reading novels makes you more attractive to the opposite sex
• The appeal of true live crime to women
• Why we should switch mile per hour to minutes per hour
• Are we nearly there yet? The behavioural science of transport
• What trains should always leave 2mins late
• Why we all need a season ticket from the Isle of White to go anywhere in first class
• Why going first class should be based on length of service rather than status
• How Brexit is good for employee benefits
• How the invention of the tube transformed working class access to jobs
• How the breakthrough happens when you’re doing what everyone else isn’t doing
• Lucozade Energy and how the perception of change is worse than the actual change
• The real WHY and the hidden WHO
• Better for the reputation to fail conventionally than succeeds unconventionally
• The safe course of action in corporate life is always to be boringly conventional
• Quality of reasoning isn’t quality of outcome
• What every second hand car salesman knows
• The case for making decisions when drunk
• How behaviourial science can save the planet
• Never solve a problem based on the average
• Why we should be able to choose our own contribution to the climate crisis
• The climate case for a vintage Aston Martin - known as the Kazzoom-brooks postulate
• The case for choosing premium brands over cheap ones
• What you can learn from the 4th man in Wales to own a dishwasher
• Why you shouldn’t post a picture of your car in social media
• Changing the currency of status signalling to solve climate crisis
• Rory’s favourite ad campaign of the past 10 years
• The case for Germany as a tourist destination
• Why VW should have put cup holders in their cars in the US
• What we can learn from the German approach to the environment
• Why we shouldn’t politicise the environment otherwise it creates reputational loss
• Why winning an argument and holding attention are not the same thing

In this special episode of Uncensored CMO, Jon finds himself on the other side of the mic being interviewed by producer James McKinven, who grills him on some unusual career moves. After a promising start in the City Jon makes a large u-turn and decides to become a marketer instead where he goes on to learn his early craft at Britvic. His next big break came at drinks business First Drinks where he notoriously closed down the London underground after causing a terror threat. After recovering from that he returned to Britvic to launch brands in International markets and from there set up a new team of challenger brands. With the entrepreneurs bug he poured his life savings into a management buy in which didn’t end well. From there he went ‘major league’ as Marketing Director of LRS before being fired. Then landing his dream job Brewdog he only managed 3 months before being fired again. But the story ends well as you find Jon as host of Uncensored CMO and CMO for System1 talking about what makes advertising work. In this episode he shares everything he has learnt in his career and why being fired twice in one year wasn’t the setback you might imagine.

What we covered in this episode:

• What inspired Jon to go into Marketing
• Making the giant leap from Business Finance to Marketing
• Getting a big break launching Fruit Shoot at Britvic
• How small conversations can make a big difference
• Why leaving Britvic was the best way to get promoted at Britvic
• Learning the marketing ropes at First Drinks
• Causing a terror threat in the London Underground
• Appearing on Have I Got News For You
• How sometimes it pays to go back
• What you discover in International marketing
• Creating a challenger brand from within the company
• Betting his life savings on a Management Buy In
• What you learn when you have nothing
• Landing a grown up CMO role at Lucozade Ribena Suntory
• Working with a Boxing legend Anthony Joshua
• Imposter syndrome when going from nothing to £50m budgets
• Managing perception vs reality in a large corporation organisation
• Creating the best performing OOH ad ever
• How to screw up the Lucozade reformulation
• Getting fired despite delivering every single KPI
• Jon’s 100 day plan to meet 100 people
• Landing his dream job at BrewDog
• Getting fired (again) after only 3 months
• The power of being unreasonable
• Was James Watt a good CEO to work for?
• The unexpected source of work after being fired
• How Uncensored CMO was born
• The episode that made him cry
• What happens next for Uncensored CMO and how he wants to help you

Ade joined ITV as Head of Diversity Commissioning in 2017. She was later promoted to Director of Creative Diversity, before taking on the role of Group Director of Diversity and Inclusion and joining the Management Board in 2020. She has responsibility for all diversity and inclusion related matters across the Group, including leading, developing and growing ITV’s Diversity and Inclusion strategy on and off-screen. Prior to joining ITV, Ade spent over 10 years at Channel 4, most recently as Creative Diversity Manager, where she supported and nurtured the careers of diverse creative talent and sought out and commissioned a slate of developments which encouraged diversity, risk-taking and innovation. Ade is currently a Trustee of BAFTA, Chair of BAFTA’s Learning and New Talent Committee, and a Trustee of the National Trust.

What we covered in this episode:

• From making Shirley Bassey’s tea to Director of Diversity & Inclusion at ITV
• The excitement of seeing a black person on screen in the 80’s
• Advice for how to get into TV
• Being inspired by the arrival of Channel 4
• How Ade created diversity on and off screen at Channel 4
• Thanks for the warm up – positioning the Paralympics in 2012
• How Channel 4 led the change throughout the entire industry
• How the Paralympic advertising beat the Olympics
• The impact of the pandemic on Diversity & Inclusion
• Talent is equally distributed so cast your net wide
• Hiring the best talent vs the people we are most familiar with
• You can’t be what you can’t see and the importance of role models on screen
• ITV’s role is to tell a story for everyone
• Telling someone’s story well rather than everyone’s story badly
• How off screen diversity has been transformed
• Learning about other people’s culture through drama
• The opportunity for more action on social class and disability
• Why we should stamp out unpaid work experience
• Top advice for creative Diversity change
• We are changed when we are seen as we are changed by what we see
• Proving the commercial case for Diversity in the Feeling Seen report
• What is good for society is also good for business
• Nike Toughest Athlete and the power of seeing black pregnant women on TV
• The power of the wonderful everyday inspiration from Ikea
• Why it will be good when we no longer have to reference a person’s race
• The importance of doing your cultural research
• Telling fresh stories can be a brilliant ways to stand out
• How the Boots ad makes you feel like real life holidays enjoying yourself
• Advice to Advertisers to be authentically diverse