unSILOed with Greg LaBlanc

How has economic thought evolved throughout the years along with the development of the other modern science disciplines? What is the role of human agency, and what are the philosophical underpinnings of economic thought?

Margaret Schabas is a professor of philosophy at the University of British Columbia, and also the author of several books. Her latest work is A Philosopher's Economist: Hume and the Rise of Capitalism.

Greg and Margaret discuss how economics evolved from natural philosophy. The conversation delves into historical perspectives and the major influence of figures like Adam Smith and David Hume. Margaret explains the interplay between natural sciences and social sciences. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• Adam Smith
• John Stuart Mill
• Aristotle
• John Locke
• David Hume
• Laffer curve
• Phillips curve
• Gresham's law
• James Clerk Maxwell
• Friedrich Hayek
• Macroeconomics
• John Maynard Keynes
• UnSILOed Episode 467: Vernon L. Smith

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at the University of British Columbia
• Profile on Wikipedia

Her Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• A Philosopher's Economist: Hume and the Rise of Capitalism
• A World Ruled by Number: William Stanley Jevons and the Rise of Mathematical Economics
• The Natural Origins of Economics

How the 18th century shaped our understanding of economic growth and labor

09:13: The real concept of growth of an expanding economy really only takes hold in the early 18th century. And then the question is, how does this happen, and is it through labor? And if it's labor, is it at the expense of other organisms? Arguably, it is. We humans are now going to edge up to 10 billion, and presumably, we've done that very much at the expense of other organisms. But that's not how they're thinking in the 18th century; they're not really thinking that way at all. So then there are a lot of questions that don't get fully answered, and the labor theory of value is an attempt, I think, partly to answer that: that it's through efficiency of labor and increased skills and quality of labor, the intensification of labor, say per unit hour, through the assistance of capital. That allows us to produce more, and we're clearly much wealthier now than our ancestors three centuries ago, at least on average.

Philosophy is best grounded in historical analysis

53:22: Philosophy, to me, is always best grounded in historical analysis. So, every book I've written, I pose a philosophical question: Why is economics a mathematical science? Or why do people believe there are laws in the economy? And then I pursue it historically, because I think just doing it in one’s study, without the empirical resources of the actual discipline, is a disservice, too. But those are my views. I'm trained in the history and philosophy of science, and I think it's a discipline. I think it's best done if you have important philosophical questions to motivate your historical research, and vice versa. To do philosophy of science really is best done if you can appeal or note important historical case studies.

Strong empiricism and the enlightenment’s legacy in social sciences

42:03: I think that's the reigning view: that there is an empirical fact of the matter that can resolve a lot of questions that once were purely philosophical, and, of course, there'll always be disagreements empirically, and there's always question-begging moves in what methods one uses. And so the empirical record will never fully resolve any question, but I think the general thrust is towards a strong empiricism, and, in that sense, I think that's the 18th century—the Enlightenment. If you think about the great philosophers of the 18th century, starting with people like Voltaire, Mandeville, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Hume, and Smith—and one can go on—they're all contributing to what we call the social sciences.

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What are the ethical responsibilities of designers today and what long-term impacts do they need to consider as they design? Who does the label of ‘designer’ actually apply to?

Scott Doorley and Carissa Carter are designers, writers, and educators. Scott is the Creative Director and Carissa is the Academic Director and an Adjunct Professor at Stanford University’s d.school. They are also co-authors of the new book Assembling Tomorrow: A Guide to Designing a Thriving Future from the Stanford d.school.

Greg, Scott, and Carissa discuss the evolution and impact of design thinking, the pervasive nature of design in today's world, and the importance of being intentional with design choices. They also highlight key concepts from their book such as the significance of noticing unintended consequences, embracing awkwardness, and understanding the role of constraints in the design process. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• Stanford D.School
• Needfinding for Wicked Problems
• Marc Andreessen
• UnSILOed Episode 03: Charles O’Reilly III

Guest Profile:

• Scott Doorley Stanford D. School Profile
• ScottDoorley.com
• Scott Doorley LinkedIn
• Carissa Carter Stanford D. School Profile
• snowflyzone.com
• Carissa Carter LinkedIn
• Carissa Carter X Profile

Their Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• Assembling Tomorrow: A Guide to Designing a Thriving Future from the Stanford d.school
• Make Space: How to Set the Stage for Creative Collaboration
• The Secret Language of Maps: How to Tell Visual Stories with Data

Why embracing imperfection and discomfort is essential in design

19:38: [Scott Doorley] The thing about imperfection is, even if you get it right, it’s only temporary. If you get it so-called right, something’s going to change outside of you that’s going to render it not effectual,  in some matter of time. Or you’re going to get that right, but you’re going to miss something else. I was talking to a guy who teaches here, and he teaches entrepreneurs, and he was saying, “You’re going to fail somewhere. It might be at your business, it might be at your family, it might be at your health, but if you’re really trying to do something hard, there’s going to be failure.” So you just have to get used to it, acknowledge it, and then work with it. You’ve got to accept it as part of the design because it is.

We are all designers

03:34:[Carissa Carter] Whether you are a person that designs things, systems, or technologies, whether or not you call yourself a designer in your job title, if you are a part of making things and bringing them into the world, that's design work, and it's really important to pay attention to that.

Navigating design in a world of constraints

42:03: [Scott Doorley] The idea of transcending constraints is appealing, but what designers are doing is shifting the realm of what they're saying—no, these are the constraints that matter; this other one that we thought mattered doesn't matter. And they're really just hell-bent on figuring out: what is the set of constraints that work?

Embedding vision into everyday actions

42:03: [Scott Doorley] This ability to go big and go detailed can't be overstated because that's where things start to feel congruent, right? If I say, "Oh, my organization believes in X," but that's not coming through in the way someone's greeted when they come to the door, it's just going to feel off, and it just doesn't feel right. It just doesn't feel good. So that ability to be like, "Okay, not only are we going to have a vision, but we're going to embed it in the day-to-day that we do." You could think of that as parenting. That's sort of how a teacher sets up a classroom. That's clearly how a leader should lead an organization, in my opinion, because then you don't have to talk about the values—they're there. It's a hard thing to do. Frankly, sometimes I'd feel like we're on it. Sometimes I feel like we're missing the mark. It's not a static thing. You have to keep iterating and keep responding to what's going on.

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As the world searches for impactful solutions to global warming and energy independence, how important is it for policymakers to understand some level of physics? For today’s guest – it’s important enough to write a whole book on it. 

Richard Muller is a professor of physics at UC Berkeley and the author of numerous books including, Now: The Physics of Time and Physics for Future Presidents: The Science Behind the Headlines. Through his books aimed at general audiences, Richard is bringing physics to the masses and illustrates the field’s relevance to everyday life. 

Richard and Greg discuss the critical role of physics in solving current global issues like global warming and energy independence, the broader significance of scientific literacy and objectivity, and major misconceptions about nuclear power. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• C.P. Snow
• Al Gore
• Union of Concerned Scientists
• ADVANCE Act 
• Enrico Fermi
• Hans Bethe

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at UC Berkeley
• Professional Website
• Berkeley Earth Website

His Work:

• Now: The Physics of Time
• Physics for Future Presidents: The Science Behind the Headlines
• Energy for Future Presidents: The Science Behind the Headlines
• The Instant Physicist: An Illustrated Guide

Are we truly tackling climate change the right way?

16:30: Global warming is happening. It is real. Temperature has risen in the last 150 years by 1.5 degrees Celsius—1.5 degrees Celsius. It's real, and it's caused by humans. And I believe—and this isn't science anymore—I believe it's a threat. [16:59] I also know from careful analysis that no major suggestions being made by Republicans, Democrats, or anybody will work, even if implemented; that's the biggest problem. People are suggesting, 'Oh, we should have a carbon tax,' as if that will solve the problem. I can argue effectively why it will not solve the problem. Electric cars certainly won't solve the problem. I don't believe solar and wind have a chance of solving the problem. So the two things we have that can solve the problem are higher efficiency, and that is working well around the world. The efficiency is improving enormously. And the other is nuclear power, which we have to make cheaper than coal.

What do scientists need to do to maintain their reputation?

14:58: Science has lost its credibility largely due to two very important stories. The first one is global warming, where so many scientists lost objectivity. And the other was in the whole COVID story. Because these things are so important, scientists said, "I can't be objective." They didn't say this out loud. They said, "It's important for me to tell people what they should believe." [16:06] So I think scientists need to maintain their reputation, or get it back, as one of the few disciplines from which you can get objective information.

Science is driven by adventure, not curiosity

49:05: Now, scientists are not driven by curiosity. Now, if you're driven by curiosity, you spend your entire day in the library, reading books. Okay, that's curiosity. Scientists—it's more of a challenge, of an adventure. It's what drove the early explorers in the 1600s to go and find a new world, maybe with gold in them. The whole idea of having an adventure is why you go into science, not out of curiosity.

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While many species in the world make music, humans have a unique musical ability. In some ways, music might even define what it means to be human. But how did we become so musical? And what is it about humans that sets our music apart from the music found in nature? 

Michael Spitzer is a professor of music at the University of Liverpool and the author of the book, The Musical Human: A History of Life on Earth, which explores mankind’s ability to synthesize rhythm, melody, and culture throughout history and why music is fundamental to our humanity. 

Michael and Greg discuss when and how music became an intrinsic part of human life, the changing role of music from a participatory activity to its present-day passive consumption, and the implications of technological advancements in music creation.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
• The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals by Charles Darwin
• Robin Williams
• Gamelan
• Florentine Camerata

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at University of Liverpool
• Professional Profile on X

His Work:

• The Musical Human: A History of Life on Earth 

Are we losing the value of music?

43:32: Music should do much more than just relax you. It should make you think and make you feel more alive. The ubiquity means we, it says, as available now as water and air, and it's become cheapened. If you were born on Beethoven's day, you would be lucky to hear a symphony twice in your lifetime. And when you did, it was special because most of the time, you were in silence, and we've lost silence. So, it's swings and roundabouts. We have this fantastic availability all the time, everywhere, everything now, but it means we don't value it very much anymore.

Why is music spiritual?

21:01: Why is music spiritual? It's because you can't see it. Unlike vision, it is out there when you see an object. You have this external objectification of that source. But with music and sound, it's inside you, and ontology, or the experience of sound, that is, it's internal or inside your mind, and you can't see it. So, it's intrinsically related to spirituality. It's invisible; it's ineffable; it's interior; it's linked to contemplation, meditation, and prayer. So it makes sense that music evolved, side by side, hand in hand with spirituality.

Music as the ultimate mimic of emotion and movement

19:23: You can't separate the feeling from the ethology—the ethological dimension of the emotion. How do you get from there into music? Well, I hear music as a gesture. Even though you don't see anything, it's invisible. I mean, there may not even be any words. It could be a jazz improvisation or a string quartet. Music evokes a sense of emotion, of something virtual, in a virtual landscape, moving and gesturing. And also a sense of voice. There may not be a lyric, there may not be a human voice, but a violin or a guitar can definitely evoke a sense of voice. So you've got your voice, your gesture, your action, your movement, and all the ingredients of behavior and emotional behavior. And music is incredibly eloquent in communicating emotional behavior. In short, music is like a mimic, like a great impressionist.

Is music really universal?

24:55: I don't mean that music is universal. Our propensity and our capacity for music are universal. We're born into a culture, and then this is why every musical culture has different vocabularies, different scales, different instruments, and different vocal types.

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How do economics play into solving major global issues like pandemics, climate change, or inequality?

Erik Angner is a professor of philosophy at Stockholm University and the author of How Economics Can Save the World: Simple Ideas to Solve Our Biggest Problems. He’s a rare kind of philosopher of science – while most focus on natural sciences, Erik studies social sciences like economics. 

In this episode, Erik and Greg discuss why philosophers have not given more attention to social sciences, how economics is not just a discipline but a methodology, and why economists should be more involved when it comes to solving the world’s issues. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• The Economist's View of the World: And the Quest for Well-Being by Steven Rhoads
• Alvin Roth
• Thomas Carlyle
• Don Moore 
• Karl Popper

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at Stockholm University
• Professional Website

His Work:

• How Economics Can Save the World: Simple Ideas to Solve Our Biggest Problems

Why don’t people recognize the consensus in economics?

45:42: There's a real sort of illiteracy when it comes to economics. We see it in policy questions. We also see it on the private level. So, overwhelmingly, if you ask people questions about interest rates and inflation or whatever, across the world, like, large shares of the population don't understand these concepts, and what that means is that majorities of the population don't have the skills required to make the kind of decisions that they have to make as a citizen of a modern rich country in terms of like choosing mortgages, choosing credit cards, saving for the future, planning for retirement, and so on. We have a system now that requires people to make decisions they're not equipped to make, and that strikes me as a massive problem that we really ought to be doing something about. And it's connected because if people learned more about one, they would maybe learn more about the other.

How does interdisciplinary research drive economic progress?

21:01: There's something interesting that happens when you come from another discipline into economics or whatever: you notice blind spots—you bring your own blind spots. But they might be corrected, and then you begin to see opportunities for progress that people within the community might not have seen.

Why economics can’t ignore values

07:44: For the longest time, economists imagined that they could proceed without any sort of attention to values. The thought was that economics is a science, that science requires us to ignore values, and that to the extent that values enter into our work, the work is thereby deficient in some way. But that picture is gone. It's gone, broadly speaking, in the philosophy of science, and economists themselves have come to appreciate that we have to engage with values in order to do the kind of work that we need to do as economists. [08:48] To the extent that economists are building things and designing things—designing markets and institutions and auctions and retirement systems and healthcare systems and all sorts of things—we sort of have to begin with a picture of the end goal. What are we trying to build here? What do we want our healthcare system to look like? And that's a question of values. You can't pretend that that's something you can settle by means of data alone.

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What are the true natures of intelligence and wisdom, and how do they play off each other in sometimes surprising ways? What are the best ways to mitigate our many biases, and what factors create the placebo and nocebo effects?

David Robson is a prolific journalist, a former editor at New Scientist, and the author of the books The Laws of Connection: The Scientific Secrets of Building a Strong Social Network, The Expectation Effect: How Your Mindset Can Change Your World, and The Intelligence Trap: Why Smart People Make Dumb Mistakes.

Greg and David discuss how intelligence isn't always correlated with wise decision-making, the potential flaws in educational systems, and the crucial role of critical thinking. They also explore how mindset impacts health and learning, touching on topics like cognitive biases and rationality, and dissect the placebo and nocebo effects. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• Flynn effect
• Fin de siècle
• Lewis Terman
• Keith Stanovich
• Confirmation bias
• Nobel disease
• Dunning–Kruger effect
• Montessori education
• Henry K. Beecher
• Placebo
• Nocebo
• Anita Williams Woolley’s Research

Guest Profile:

• DavidRobson.me
• Bio at NewScientist.com
• Social Profile on Instagram

His Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• The Laws of Connection: The Scientific Secrets of Building a Strong Social Network
• The Expectation Effect: How Your Mindset Can Change Your World
• The Intelligence Trap: Why Smart People Make Dumb Mistakes
• BBC.com Articles

Are we reflexively pessimistic?

41:06: I think a lot of us are reflexively pessimistic in our lives because we think: you expect the worst, and then anything that's better than that will bring you joy. But actually, by expecting the worst through these expectation effects, you might actually be bringing about the worst. It could actually be changing the outcome so that a positive outcome is less likely. So being pessimistic is not rational; it's not as smart as we think it's going to be. But I'm not saying we should be like Pollyanna and just try to pretend that all of these difficulties in our lives don't exist. I think we need to be in that sweet middle ground, where we're remaining open-minded to all of the possibilities.

Embracing discomfort

43:06: We don't always have to catastrophise things that feel uncomfortable, because sometimes the discomfort is part of what makes them so powerful.

On motivated reasoning

13:38: When we measure something like IQ, it does seem to be related to the efficiency of the brain's networks in some ways. So it is helping the brain to process information more quickly, which can be a big advantage when you're learning something new and complex or when you have to make very rapid decisions. But what it doesn't protect you from is the things that we spoke about. So all of those biases doesn't necessarily mean that you're any more likely to consider a piece of evidence fairly rather than just allowing your preconceptions to cloud your judgment. The big problem is that once you have made those mistakes, you then have your intelligence to rationalize and justify the conclusion that you've come to. That's a process called motivated reasoning, and I think that's really behind this idea of the intelligence trap.

Can we use other people to counter our biases?

52:55: It's great to have someone who is a real optimist, is always looking on the bright side, and is always thinking big. But you do want someone—not someone who is pessimistic and is always going to drag everyone down. But you want someone who's realistic and is asking those difficult questions. And they're going to say, "Well, you have these big dreams, but here are the ten challenges that we're going to have to overcome before we get there." So you absolutely want to have those different perspectives. And teams full of one or the other would not work. If you have someone who's only looking at the challenges, they will be less ambitious and maybe produce more mediocre projects. If you have people who are blindly optimistic, well, they're going to overlook some really important challenge that is ultimately going to lead to failure unless you preempt it and plan for it. So that's why I think we can use other people to counter some of our own biases.

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At what point did the concept of civilization and civilizations emerge? In what ways  do we know that societies were mingling and exchanging ideas and objects with each other? How were the Crusades responsible for our culture’s current sugar obsession?

Josephine Quinn is a Professor of Ancient History at the University of Oxford, and the author of several books, including her latest work How the World Made the West: A 4,000 Year History and also In Search of the Phoenicians.

Greg and Josephine discuss the challenges and insights from piecing together 4,000 years of global history, and digging into the concept of 'civilizational thinking' and its origins. Josephine explains how civilizations intertwine through war, trade, and cultural exchange, and also highlights how modern perspectives shape our understanding of past human interactions. They also discuss the subject of another of Josephine’s books and unpack the significant yet often misunderstood impact of Phoenicians and other early civilizations on today's world.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• Phoenicia
• Age of Discovery
• Crusades
• Levant
• Herodotus
• Ottoman Empire
• Minoan civilization
• Arthur Evans
• Knossos
• Heinrich Schliemann
• Barlaam and Josaphat
• Abbasid Caliphate
• The Invention of Tradition
• Zoroastrianism
• Fernand Braudel

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at the University of Oxford
• Wikipedia Profile
• Social Profile on Instagram

Her Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• How the World Made the West: A 4,000 Year History
• In Search of the Phoenicians
• The Punic Mediterranean: Identities and Identification from Phoenician Settlement to Roman Rule
• The Hellenistic West: Rethinking the Ancient Mediterranean
• The Rise and Fall of the Classical World: 2500 BC - 600 AD

Tracing the roots of civilizational thinking 

10:52: One of the things I really want people to take away from my book is that war is one of the most effective modes of communication that people have. But all the same, depended on fundamental notion of similarity between peoples. [11:36] But around 1500, what's happening with this European expansion is to me, a very radical change in that, at the same time as Europeans are engaging in mass conversions to Christianity overseas, they're expelling the significant Jewish and Muslim populations from Europe itself. And so, it's creating a, sort of, us and them situation. Basically for the first time, a significant scale, I mean, things like that happen on a smaller scale and throughout history in all societies but I think this is really, in terms of a global history, something really quite new. And so, to me, it is the roots of that civilizational thinking that gets fully articulated a few hundred years later, starting in the 18th century. 

The idea of continents is fictional and is used by other geographers to create divisions in their works. 

17:01: The idea of continents is a fascinating one to me. It goes back, in fact, to ancient Greek-speaking scientists who are working on the coast of what's now Turkey, very much in touch with what was going on in the big intellectual centers of antiquity, like Babylon, with Egyptian scientists, and so on. But we don't have any evidence that anybody else thought about the world in terms of continents. But they invented it with some geographers, and it was a kind of label. It wasn't a sort of major concept. One of my favorite commentaries is by another Greek historian, Herodotus. I say Greek-speaking. He also was from Anatolia, grew up in Persian lands, but he says, Well, people say that there are these three continents, and they're all named after women: Europa, Asia, Libya, [the] Greek term for what we now say—Africa, but I think this is nonsense. I mean, people don't even know where they begin and end. And, of course, that's right. I mean, some continents exist. The America exists. Australia exists. But Europe, Asia, and Africa?

Why do people care about the heterogeneity of origins of things in the modern world?

43:05 This is the big question, isn't it? Do people have an investment in the idea of a pure West that is facing pollution or even replacement from the outside right now? I think it's the same kind of question. And I think part of it is just that that's an easier way to think. It offers certainty. I think certainty is a terribly attractive thing but the problem is that human history isn't certain. It's fuzzy and complicated and if there's one thing that I would love people who read this book to think harder about, it's the idea of heritage. I think heritage is often seen as a very positive thing in the world today. But actually, I feel like there's a danger that people invest in a collective past at the expense of a collective present. And that, I think, is quite dangerous. But it is much easier to read things than it is to have conversations.

The idea of the Minoan and Mycenaean civilizations as two separate cultures is a historical typo.

The whole idea of Minoan and Mycenaean are basically just two rival labels of two basically warring groups of archaeologists about exactly the same thing. It's like a historical typo that people now think of them as different.

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What does the sense of self give humans over other animals, and how do our storytelling instincts set us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom? What can be learned about humans and animals by training a dog to allow humans to scan its brain with an MRI machine?

Gregory Berns is a neuroscientist at Emory University and the author of several books, including Iconoclast: A Neuroscientist Reveals How to Think Differently, The Self Delusion: The New Neuroscience of How We Invent—and Reinvent—Our Identities, and his most recent work, Cowpuppy: An Unexpected Friendship and a Scientist’s Journey into the Secret World of Cows.

Greg and Gregory discuss the complex interplay between self-perception, social influence, and animal behavior. Referring to his work in The Self Delusion, Gregory delves into how our brains construct and reconstruct our identities, influenced by both sensory information and social pressures. Gregory used brain imaging and machine learning to study conformity, the psychological impacts of social media, and the balancing act between primal instincts and modern life. They also dive into the evolution of human storytelling compared to animal communication, Gregory’s groundbreaking MRI research on dogs, and the deep connections formed through living on a farm and working with cows. This insightful episode also touches on the philosophical and theological questions around human behavior, aiming to provide a holistic understanding of the underlying neuroscience and psychology.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• Amygdala
• Asch conformity experiments
• Kanizsa triangle
• Dopamine
• Ventral striatum
• Umwelt
• Monty Roberts
• Temple Grandin

Guest Profile:

• GregoryBerns.com
• Faculty Profile at Emory University
• Wikipedia Profile
• Social Profile on X
• Social Profile on Instagram

His Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• Cowpuppy: An Unexpected Friendship and a Scientist’s Journey into the Secret World of Cows
• The Self Delusion: The New Neuroscience of How We Invent—and Reinvent—Our Identities
• What It's Like to Be a Dog: And Other Adventures in Animal Neuroscience
• How Dogs Love Us: A Neuroscientist and His Adopted Dog Decode the Canine Brain
• Satisfaction: Sensation Seeking, Novelty, and the Science of Finding True Fulfillment
• Iconoclast: A Neuroscientist Reveals How to Think Differently
• Psychology Today Articles

Human life is telling stories

30:16: We're all storytellers, even if you write scientific papers. Ultimately, it's still a story where you do an experiment, you collect data, and yes, I guess at some level, we're testing hypotheses, but most scientific papers these days are not about that, to be honest. Most are more in the exploratory sense, where we're doing experiment because we want to understand something about the world. We might have an idea about it, but it's usually much more nuanced. And then you do the experiment, doesn't turn out the way you expect it. And then it's like, well, what happened? So you tell a story about what you think happened and what it means. And I think, ultimately, that is all that human life is. It is us telling stories, because if it weren't that, then we're not that much different than bees and all the other animals that I study, but we clearly are. 

Stories go beyond the current state of the art in terms of predictive models

31:38: We tell stories to ourselves and to each other to have meaning in our lives. It's not the case that the machine is ever going to care about what's meaningful. So, I do think that meaning, in and of itself, has value to humans that has yet to be captured in any kind of computer model.

Are preferences endogenous or constructed?

07:36: I think we tend to fool ourselves a little bit in that our preferences are endogenous because it comes back to us thinking about us thinking. It’s like, okay, well, I prefer vanilla ice cream over chocolate ice cream. Well, has it always been that way? I don’t know. Or is it just something that I have come to believe out of habit, and it’s not necessarily the case—or that it even changes based on the circumstance?

Why the most meaningful experiences are often the most uncomfortable

20:52: I've written a bit about the ways that we might get around that, and one of the ways is novel experiences. The thing about novel experiences is that they're anxiety-provoking—unless, I mean, for the minority of people who thrive on that. For most people, they like the status quo; they like the comfort of things being predictable, and things being unpredictable causes a great deal of anxiety. Even though, if you ask pretty much everyone, the most memorable experiences in their life, the things they think most fondly of, are probably the things that were most difficult, and the things that initially did cause all that anxiety or were uncomfortable. The things that we, as humans, attach meaning to are the things that are meaningful because they're difficult.

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How does art influence our perception of the world? Can fostering creativity in education lead to overall personal happiness and growth? What lessons can be drawn from historical and modern art practices?

Will Gompertz is the director of Sir John Soane’s Museum in London, and the author of several books, including What Are You Looking At?: The Surprising, Shocking, and Sometimes Strange Story of 150 Years of Modern Art, Think Like an Artist: How to Live a Happier, Smarter, More Creative Life, and most recently See What You're Missing.

Greg and Will discuss the transformative power of art as a tool for self-help and critical engagement. Will analyzes the impact of creativity in education, emphasizing the need for a balanced curriculum that fosters both artistic and analytical thinking. Greg and Will talk about some key figures in the modern art world such as Pierre Mondrian and Marcel Duchamp, who serve as examples of revolutionary artists that challenged the status quo. Will and Greg also explore new ways to look at the importance of teaching art in schools, and how supportive environments in schools and workplaces, like those fostered under leaders like Satya Nadella, can enhance curiosity and innovation. 

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• Leonardo da Vinci
• Piero della Francesca
• Marcel Duchamp
• Fountain (Duchamp)
• The Death of Socrates
• Steve Jobs
• Louise Bourgeois
• Piet Mondrian
• Riccardo Muti
• Sir John Soane's Museum
• Royal Academy of Arts
• Satya Nadella
• David Foster Wallace
• Paul Cézanne
• Albert Rothenberg
• Maurizio Cattelan
• Sol LeWitt
• David Hockney
• Alan Ayckbourn

Guest Profile:

• Profile at the Sir John Soane’s Museum of London
• Wikipedia Profile
• Social Profile on Instagram
• Social Profile on X

His Work:

• Amazon Author Page
• See What You're Missing
• Think Like an Artist: How to Live a Happier, Smarter, More Creative Life
• What Are You Looking At?: The Surprising, Shocking, and Sometimes Strange Story of 150 Years of Modern Art
• Articles in The Guardian

Why is art considered self-help?

01:18: I think art is self-help. I think art is self-help by the artist when he or she is trying to express themselves. It's self-help for us as viewers when we're trying to commune with this idea, this thing which has been put before us and asked us to consider it. And so, I think actually for this sort of the crazy world we live in now, museums, galleries, art, the arts more broadly, are the sanest things that are available to us, where humans are thinking and sharing and considering and challenging and sharing their feelings in a way that seems to be completely disappearing from everyday life, which seems to be getting more hectic, more insular, more anxiety-ridden. So actually, I think the arts are an entity, a form of self-help for all involved.

Creativity and asking questions make us human

07:05: Creativity and asking questions are what make us human. Therefore, when we're doing that, we're at our most human; we're feeling the life force at its most powerful. 

On creating safe spaces for self-discovery in schools

17:56: School should be a place of self-discovery, friendship, community, and expression, not somewhere which feels like an army drill camp; where you get shouted at and told to sit still, sit still, then sit still. But why don't you want to sit still? So we start asking questions and start creating environments where young people feel respected and safe.

Do people need to set aside some time for the consumption of art?

53:45: Human beings have created art in one way, shape, or form since the very first person walked on this earth. And we will continue to create art until the very last person walks on this earth. It (art) is an essential part of the human experience. Therefore, we should all be given the time and space to enjoy.

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AI is a fast-growing field full of potential insights, challenges, and ethical implications for its users and the world. How can the people behind the machines explore the ways to use AI and data technology to leverage societal benefits?

Juan M. Lavista Ferres is the Corporate Vice President and Chief Data Scientist of the AI for Good Lab at Microsoft. He also co-authored the book AI for Good: Applications in Sustainability, Humanitarian Action, and Health.

Greg and Juan discuss Juan's book 'AI for Good,' various AI projects, and the critical role of data labeling. They also discuss philanthropic initiatives from Microsoft, the transformative impact of robust data collection, and the challenges of applying AI to real-world problems. 

Juan covers innovations like GPT and Seeing AI, as well as the ethical concerns of open access to AI models, and Satya Nadella's leadership transformation at Microsoft. Listen in for insights into the importance of using AI responsibly, collaborative efforts for accurate data processing, and how AI technology can actually enhance real lives.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Recommended Resources:

• House of Medici
• Andrew Carnegie
• Moore's law
• Global Forest Watch
• Ruler Detection for Autoscaling Forensic Images
• BeMyEyes App
• Michael Bloomberg
• Brad Smith
• Amy Hood

Guest Profile:

• Profile at Microsoft
• LinkedIn Profile
• AIforGood.itu.int Profile
• Stanford RegLab Profile
• Social Profile on X

His Work:

• AI for Good: Applications in Sustainability, Humanitarian Action, and Health
• Google Scholar Page

On deciding which ai-driven projects are worth doing

12:26: We first ask the questions like, can we solve it through AI? Not a lot of problems can be solved from AI. There's a small portion of them that can be solved with AI. From those problems, does the data exist? Is the data of good quality? And sometimes the answer is no. Even if the data exists, do we have access to the data? Can we get access to the data? We will usually work on the partners' data sets, not our data sets, meaning that the data set will not leave the partners, but sometimes there's no way to have a data-sharing agreement in place, where it makes it impossible to share the data. Once we have that part, the next question is, do we have the right partner? We are not subject matter experts on the point that we work. We are subject matter experts on AI, but if we're working with pancreatic cancer, we need, on the other side, a group of people that are experts on pancreatic cancer, for example. In that case, we try to partner with people who are subject matter experts and are world-renowned.

Data needs to be representative

19:55: Data is a fundamental part. I would say the majority of the success or failure will happen because of the data set, and investing in understanding the data set—making sure that there's no bias—is a critical part of the work. It's tough; it's difficult. Data needs to be representative.

What are the do’s and don’ts for companies looking to launch initiatives for good?

36:40: I would love more companies. So, this is something that we discussed with my team. Whenever we see other competitors creating something like we do, we feel proud because that would be a success for us in many ways. So I would encourage everybody to use that technology for good. That's something that I think is certainly worth the do's and don'ts; I think it's important to make sure that this organization remains clear that its objective is on the noncommercial part of the philanthropic aspect of the company because, within this organization, the objective is to be helping society and making it clear for the people that are working there. That is something that is helping us a lot. Our end goal is to help society, and I think I would encourage other companies to do it.

Is there a possibility of a zero bug project?

21:09: Some of these problems require people to really ask the question: how is this model going to be used correctly? And that takes experience. More importantly, I think it's crucial that in many of these cases, we need to be ready to find those problems and fix them, correct? And I think that this is like software development in many ways. The chances of having a zero-bug project are zero, correct? Projects that have zero bugs are projects that people don't use. What I think is important as an organization is to find those problems, be proactive in trying to find them, and be really fast in solving them.

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