Wellness + Wisdom | Episode 732
Have you ever wondered if the dream you’re chasing is really yours?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff joins Josh Trent on the Wellness + Wisdom Podcast, episode 732, to share how to stop living someone else's life by removing unconscious scripts, the key to living an authentic life, and how embracing liminal spaces, questioning societal scripts, and running tiny experiments can free us from the pressure of finding our purpose.
"We always think that we're following our own definition of success, but it's just amazing how many of our scripts are copy-pasted from other people. And not wanting to disappoint your parents is actually a really strong driving force." - Anne-Laure Le Cunff
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In This Episode, Anne-Laure Le Cunff Uncovers: [01:15] Remembering Who You Are
- Anne-Laure Le Cunff
- Tiny Experiments by Anne-Laure Le Cunff
- Why Anne-Laure was chasing success and forgot what was truly important.
- Imagining a new path for ourselves takes courage.
- Our brains are designed to help us survive.
- Why it's important to learn to let go of the need for certainty.
[06:30] Think About Your Thinking
- The difference between autonomous and automatic responses.
- Why we can't get rid of our automatic thoughts.
- How we're the only species that has the capacity for metacognition.
- Why crime can be predicted from precognition.
- How scientists tend to think of spirituality as separate from science.
[11:00] The Truth Behind Finding Your Purpose
- How finding purpose has been monetized.
- Why nobody finds their purpose by filling a sheet with questions.
- How our passion and purpose can change throughout our lives.
- Why people who haven't found their purpose feel like something's wrong with them.
- How being obsessed with finding our purpose might prevent us from finding it.
[14:30] The Crowd Pleaser Script
- How not knowing your purpose may be your purpose.
- Why we can't predict what excites us.
- How we follow the crowd-pleaser script to follow other people's dreams.
- Why we don't question why we actually want something.
[18:55] The Role of Liminal Spaces
- Why liminal spaces don't feel safe.
- How we want to exit the transitional state.
- Why sometimes it's necessary for us to leave the liminal space fast.
- How we perceive unpredictability as danger.
- Why liminal spaces allow us to discover ourselves.
[22:10] How to Reduce Time Anxiety
- The difference between quantitative time and qualitative time.
- Why time can expand or contract depending on our experience.
- How AI can provide more time for us.
- Why AI has the potential to reduce time anxiety.
- How the notion of being late implies there's a fixed timeline.
- Why there's always a new beginning that we can join and build around it.
[31:55] The Silicon Valley Script of Success
- How time anxiety fuels investment in Silicon Valley.
- What was Anne-Laure's experience working at Google.
- The script of success in Silicon Valley.
- Why young people rush into creating a start-up.
[36:30] Rewrite Your Scripts
- How we've been conditioned to believe that if we're not doing the most epic thing, we're harming people.
- Why we follow other people's definitions of success.
- How all of us have cognitive scripts and have the power to rewrite them.
- Why we can choose to follow a script if it feels aligned with us.
- How Anne-Laure thought leaving her job at Google meant she was rewriting her script.
- When nobody's surprised by our decisions, we're still probably following a script.
[42:50] Liminal Space VS Immediate Needs
- How Anne-Laure found herself in a liminal space after her first start-up failed.
- Why she started making money freelancing to be able to stay in the liminal space.
- How she took time to explore to find what truly excites her.
- Why Josh spent a year in Hawaii to start a new path.
- How everyone is on their own journey.
- Why the in-between moments give us the freedom to experiment.
[52:00] How to Live Authentically
- Why Josh used to have purpose guilt.
- How authenticity is born in radical discomfort.
- Why we can find authenticity through questioning our choices.
- How people can feel if we're truly being ourselves.
- Why even older people still want to find what they truly enjoy.
- How we can include curiosity to explore our passions in our daily lives.
[58:15] Experiment with Your Passions
- Tao: The Watercourse Way by Alan Watts
- The Wisdom of Insecurity by Alan Watts
- How we can realize that what we thought would make us excited is not the right thing for us.
- Why starting a company wasn't what made Anne-Laure feel fulfilled.
- How experimenting with our passions helps us collect data about what we truly enjoy.
[01:04:25] Learning in Public
- Why true leaders shine a light on others as well as on themselves.
- How Anne-Laure challenged herself to write 100 newsletter emails in 100 days.
- What helped her overcome her fear of public speaking.
- Why learning in public invited feedback and ideas.
[01:11:35] Tiny Experiments
- Why it's important to start with small steps when we're experimenting with something new.
- How we can prove to our brain that our fear is irrational.
- Why there is no prescriptive advice that we could follow.
- How the amygdala drives our fear of rejection based on human evolution.
- The importance of asking questions.
- How being in a community and witnessing our experiments speed up our growth.
[01:20:25] Create Beyond Legacy
- Why Anne-Laure believes we don't need to focus on building legacy.
- How money is not part of our legacy.
- Why success is when children still want to spend time with us when they're adults.
- Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg
- How we can teach ourselves to move beyond our scripts.
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Power Quotes From The Show Ask Yourself This to Live a More Authentic Life
"You can get a little bit closer to living an authentic life when you start asking yourself, what do I want? What am I curious about? And making space for it, as much space as you can." - Anne-Laure Le Cunff
Liminal Space
"Liminal space is a space where you don't know the rules, you don't know the players, you can't predict the outcomes. But we can't predict what's going to happen either way. It's this illusion of safety and certainty that we're seeking. The gift of the liminal space is learning more about yourself, about your work, and about the world. It is a space for self discovery if you allow yourself to stay in it, which can be very uncomfortable." - Anne-Laure Le Cunff
What Would You Do If You Could Do Anything?
"If the traditional definition of success was out of the equation, if it was just you, and you could wake up in the morning and spend your time in any way you like, read any book that you want, listen to any podcast, walk anywhere, just spend your day in any way following your curiosity, what would your day look like really?" - Anne-Laure Le Cunff
Links From Today's Show
- Anne-Laure Le Cunff
- Tiny Experiments by Anne-Laure Le Cunff
- Tao: The Watercourse Way by Alan Watts
- The Wisdom of Insecurity by Alan Watts
- Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg
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About Ann-Laure Le Cunff
Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an award-winning neuroscientist and entrepreneur. She is the founder of Ness Labs, where her weekly newsletter is read by more than 100,000 curious minds. Her research at King’s College London focuses on the psychology and neuroscience of lifelong learning, curiosity, and adaptability.
Her book, Tiny Experiments, is a transformative guide for living a more experimental life, turning uncertainty into curiosity, and carving a path of self-discovery. Previously, she worked at Google as an executive on digital health projects. Her work has been featured in Rolling Stone, Forbes, Financial Times, WIRED, and more.
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