This week on the Truth Works podcast, Jessica Neal sits down with Bob Sutton, Michael Arena, and Beth Steinberg to unpack one of the most debated topics in organizational design — flat vs hierarchical structures.

Drawing on lessons from companies like GM, Nvidia, and Netflix, they explore how culture, leadership, and network dynamics drive innovation and accountability. From Michael Arena’s experience at General Motors to Beth Steinberg’s work in shaping talent at high-growth startups, and Bob Sutton’s decades of Stanford research on power and scaling — this conversation reveals what truly makes organizations thrive (or collapse) as they grow.

If you’ve ever wondered how companies like Nvidia maintain speed and creativity without chaos, this episode is a masterclass in the art and science of organizational design.