With and For hosted by Dr. Pam King

By Dr. Pam KingReligion & Spirituality Education Self-Improvement

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With and For hosted by Dr. Pam King episodes

July 13Find clarity, with Bonnie Wan
Understanding our deepest sense of purpose in the context of our many roles and personal goals can be really hard. The demands of life can make it difficult to discern the biggest aim of your life. So how to get going? Today, we have a pair of practices that act as your first step in orienting towards your inner desires.
Bonnie Wan is going to guide us through two exercises to help you tune into your inner compass. For ten minutes every day for two weeks, Bonnie invites you to get messy by journalling on three powerful prompts:
If you gave yourself permission, what would the best case scenario look like?

What is sacred or non-negotiable to you?

What is holding you back?
Bonnie Wan is a strategist, bestselling author, and creator of The Life Brief: A Playbook for No Regrets Living. Make sure you listen to our full interview with Bonnie. And join me on Substack to read how getting messy has helped me – and I invite you to share your own reflections.
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
18 min
July 06 Take a self-compassion break, with Dr. Kristin Neff
Self-compassion goes much deeper than self-care. It’s an invitation to reorient the way you live your life through love. Self-compassion then enables us to connect to the rest of humanity. That's one of the main pieces of wisdom that we took away from our conversation with Dr. Kristin Neff, a pioneer in the research of self-compassion, and was the first guest on the recent season of With and For.
In this practice episode, Kristin will lead you through her self-compassion break. It's a simple but powerful five-minute exercise that invites you to consider something you're struggling with, and then to respond to yourself with kindness.
Join me on my Substack, where I’ll be discussing my own self-compassion journey, and invite you to share yours.
This is the first episode in our special summer series of wisdom practices: short exercises that will become your toolkit for thriving. Consider them your experiment in becoming more fully alive.
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.

12 min
June 29 What If Thriving Is Something We Practice?
At the Thrive Center, we know from research that developing the psychological capacities that we need to thrive, and the clarity about who we are and who we belong to, actually takes practice. These skills and direction just don't come out of nowhere. So to help you on that journey, we've created a special series of wisdom practices. These are short episodes that will guide you through a specific practice or exercise, like Brad Strawn’s loving-kindness reflection, Kristin Neff's self-compassion break, and Parker Palmer's listening circles.
This summer I invite you to engage in this short series of With & For practices, over the course of six weeks. Consider it your summer experiment in becoming more fully alive.
What's more, I'll be right there with you doing these practices at the same time. I've started a Substack to share my own experiences, and I'll also be inviting you to contribute your thoughts through a series of prompts. I'm really looking forward to going on this journey with you. –Dr. Pam King
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
3 min
June 15 What Does It Mean to Thrive? Dr. Pam King Reflects on Season 3
What it means to live a flourishing life has been one of the most animating questions of my career, and the brilliant, complex, nuanced conversations I had this season convinced me more than than ever: we are absolutely dependent on the world around us, on our friendships, our families, our communities, for all of us to become more fully alive. Our extraordinary guests on this season of With & For offered a powerful blueprint on how to thrive. In this episode, I reflect on some of the most powerful lessons, invitations and insights of this past season. Thank you so much for lending us your ears and your time this season.
–Dr. Pam King
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
26 min
June 08Faith and doubt, with Drs. Miroslav Volf and Christian Wiman
Poet Christian Wiman and theologian Miroslav Volf wrote each other letters in which they wrestled honestly with the big questions: what does it mean to love God? What is faith?
Letter writing deepened the friendship between these two intellectuals as they wrestled with their questions about faith and the nature of God. The longings they discuss speak to our deepest needs for transcendence and connection. If we’re going to transcend muffled lives and cut through the noise, we need a sharp, almost brutal honesty.
These letters were published in Glimmerings: Letters on Faith Between a Poet and a Theologian. The book is named after a Seamus Heaney line: “glimmerings are what the soul’s composed of”.
Miroslav Volf is a Croatian-American theologian Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and founder and director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. Christian Wiman is a poet, translator, and essayist from West Texas. He served as editor of Poetry magazine from 2003 to 2013.
Discussed in this episode:
Jewish theologian Abraham Joshua Heschel

Veni Creator by Czesław Miłosz

Zero at the Bone by Christian Wiman
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
52 min
June 01 Designing a meaningful life, with Dave Evans
The first step in finding meaning and purpose in our lives is radical acceptance of the present moment.
Dave Evans is the co-founder of the Life Design Lab at Stanford, which applies principles of design thinking to our lives. Dave and his co-founder Bill Burnett wrote the hugely popular 2016 bestseller Designing Your Life. Their new book out this year is How to Live a Meaningful Life: Using Design Thinking to Unlock Purpose, Joy, and Flow Everyday.
After listening to this episode, you’ll know the three barriers that get in the way of meaning making. You’ll be armed with simple yet powerful practices to savor the here and now, and you’ll learn how to step your gratitude exercise up a notch.
Dave holds a BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering from Stanford and a graduate diploma in Contemplative Spirituality from San Francisco Theological Seminary. He is Lecturer on the Product Design Program at Stanford, Management Consultant, and co-founder of Electronic Arts.

Mentioned in this episode:
Falling Upward by Richard Rohr
Spem in Alium
Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.

About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios

Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
48 min
May 25How to belong – not conform, with Dr. Todd Rose
Researcher and author Dr. Todd Rose has one of the most unusual journeys of any academic. Todd dropped out of high school, became a father at a young age, and went on welfare to support his family. Recognizing his own distinctive talents changed everything for Todd. He realized that humans are not cookie cutters: we have unique gifts, but that is not the same as individualism. We are fundamentally connected to one another.
Todd went on to get a masters and doctorate from Harvard, before co-founding Populace, a thinktank which aims to research and understand individuality so people can live fulfilling lives.
In this conversation, Todd talks about our deep yearning to belong – but also the dangers of assuming we know what the group thinks, and the perils of conforming. He also explains why we’re in an epidemic of resentment – and what you can do about it in your own life.
Todd’s books:
The End of Average: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness 2016

Dark Horse: Achieving Success Through the Pursuit of Fulfillment 2018

Collective Illusions: Conformity, Complicity, and the Science of Why We Make Bad Decisions 2022
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
51 min
May 18 Lessons from the farm, with Jeff Chu
When Jeff Chu turned up to work as a farmhand, he didn’t know anything about gardening. He says he actually had more experience killing plants than nurturing them. But this wasn’t just any farm: this was the Farminary, a 21-acre experiment in sustainable agriculture that’s part of Princeton Theological Seminary. Jeff calls it the world’s best classroom.
Writer, reporter, preacher and teacher Jeff Chu went on to write Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand, a memoir of his season at the Farminary. In today’s conversation, he shared some of the gems of wisdom that he gleaned from his time there.
He shared what we can learn about life and death from the compost pile; how to move through grief; and why belonging isn’t something we’re entitled to. It’s something we create for each other that requires the hard work of intimacy and vulnerability.
Jeff is teacher in residence at Crosspointe Church in North Carolina; parish associate for storytelling and witness at the First Presbyterian Church of Berkeley in California. He’s also a Ph.D. student in theology at the University of Stellenbosch, a Minister of Word and sacrament in the Reformed Church in America and author of Does Jesus Really Love Me?: A Gay Christian’s Pilgrimage in Search of God in America and co-author, with the late Rachel Held Evans, of the New York Times best-seller Wholehearted Faith.
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
52 min
May 11 Becoming fully alive, with Drs. Christin Fort and Brad Strawn
What parts of yourself need more attention? What would it mean for those parts to be given space? Today’s conversation dives deep into these questions, leading to a conversation on what it means to be fully alive – and the individual and systemic obstacles that can get in the way of thriving.
Brad and Christin spoke openly about how they confront issues of power and privilege. And they also shared their wisdom on what it really means to bring spirituality into the therapist’s office; and how we can reframe unhealthy experiences of spirituality and religion.
Dr. Brad Strawn is a licensed psychologist, ordained minister, and one of the leading figures in the integration of psychology and Christian theology in the U.S. He is the Evelyn and Frank Freed Chief of Spiritual Formation and Integration, Dean of the Chapel, and Professor of Clinical Psychology at the Fuller Graduate School of Psychology. His latest book is The Integrative Mindset: Pathways to Practicing as a Christian Clinician
Dr. Christin Fort is a therapist and Associate Professor of Clinical Psychology at Fuller Theological Seminary who specializes in the integration of clinical psychology and biblical theology. Her scholarship, research, teaching, preaching, and clinical practice lie at the intersections of faith, race, emotional health, and relational well-being.

With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.

Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
49 min
May 04 The messy path to purpose, with Bonnie Wan
When it comes to thriving, listening to our inner compass is crucial. Living out our purpose alongside others can only really happen when we use the tool of discernment. But that can often feel kind of daunting. It’s hard to know where to begin.
Bonnie Wan has developed a three-step process for tuning into our true desires – and then putting them into action.
Bonnie Wan is a strategist, bestselling author and creator of The Life Brief: A Playbook for No-Regrets Living. She took the idea of a brief from her marketing campaigns, and repurposed it for our creative and spiritual lives. Bonnie shares her challenging experience writing her own life brief – and the surprising path it led her down.
Bonnie walks us through how to apply the life brief to a big decision, which begins with allowing our human messiness to come to the surface. And more often than not, living out our purpose is relational.
Bonnie has over 30 years of experience guiding major companies. At advertising agency Goodby Silverstein & Partners, Bonnie has led strategy for BMW, Comcast/Xfinity, Frito-Lay, HP, Kraft-Heinz, and PepsiCo. She also led award-winning campaigns fighting racial injustice, child sex trafficking, cyberbullying, college campus rape, and gender inequality.
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
48 min