With and For hosted by Dr. Pam King

By Dr. Pam KingReligion & Spirituality Education Self-Improvement

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With and For hosted by Dr. Pam King episodes

April 27 How to fight loneliness, with Dr. Natalie Kerr and Dr. Jaime Kurtz
Help us plan season 4. We want to hear from you. Take our survey now! https://forms.gle/doQYx73hoPU2tRdC7
Social connection is critical for our wellbeing – it’s as important as shelter and food. Combating loneliness can feel risky sometimes - especially if it means reaching out to a stranger. We might fear awkwardness or even rejection. But it’s worth it.
Dr. Natalie Kerr and Dr. Jaime Kurtz are psychologists and professors at James Madison University. Together their work focuses on social connection and how modern life shapes our relationships.
Their new book is Our New Social Life: Science-Backed Strategies for Creating Meaningful Connection.
Natalie and Jamie discuss some of the barriers to making connections that we need to watch out for. And they share those all-important practical tools to deepen our relationships and combat loneliness. We also talk about how our spiritual lives can make us feel more connected – even when we’re alone.
Resources
Seven Barriers to Building More Meaningful Connection
Interview with John Cacioppo on loneliness
How to Build Bonds with Others
Creating Meaningful Connections
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Dr. Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
45 min
April 20 Bridging Divides with Curiosity, with Nicholas Ma
Help us plan season 4. We want to hear from you. Take our survey now! https://forms.gle/doQYx73hoPU2tRdC7
Nicholas Ma is an award-winning film director, writer, and producer. He produced Won't You Be My Neighbor?, about the life of Fred Rogers, which became one of the highest-grossing biographical documentaries ever made.
Nicholas’ latest movie Leap of Faith, is an incredibly ambitious, raw documentary that brought together 12 Christian leaders – with very different views – in an attempt to find some common ground. In all his work, you can see Nicolas’ thriving qualities of curiosity and deep patience come through. In this episode, we talked about making bold decisions in life, the intersection of art and faith, and a simple practice for making the world a little better, one ripple effect at a time.
Won’t You By My Neighbor?
Leap of Faith
The American Revival
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
51 min
April 13 Where AI ends and faith begins, with Dr. Rosalind Picard
Help us plan season 4. We want to hear from you. Take our survey now! https://forms.gle/doQYx73hoPU2tRdC7

Lauded MIT professor Rosalind Picard invents technologies that help people better understand emotions and behaviors that impact human wellbeing and health.
In 1997 she wrote an incredibly influential book called Affective Computing, which proposed giving skills of emotional intelligence to computers.
Rosalind grew up atheist but she's now a devout Christian–and in this eye-opening conversation, she shares exactly how her faith impacts her work with technology.
We talked about AI’s morality–or lack thereof–and its flaws, but also talked about how AI might enhance our relationships with other human beings. Rosalind shares the one thing she believes AI cannot do for us.
Rosalind Picard, Sc.D., is a scientist, inventor, entrepreneur, author, and engineer. She is the Grover M. Hermann Professor of Health Sciences and Technology at the MIT Media Lab.
Links and resources:
About Rosalind’s work
Recent publications
1997 book Affective Computing
Rosalind’s journey from atheism to faith in Christianity Today

With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
52 min
April 06Leading causes of life, with Drs. Somava Saha and Gary Gunderson
In our fractured and sometimes dark world, we so often focus on the leading causes of death – but what if we focused our energy on what gives life? That is the pioneering work of my guests today. Dr. Somava Saha and Rev. Dr. Gary Gunderson are leaders in public health. And while they come from very different faith traditions, together they believe that communities have within them the belonging, agency, and wisdom to thrive.
Gary Gunderson is an ordained Baptist minister and professor of Faith and Health at Wake Forest University School of Divinity. He developed the five leading causes of life: agency, coherence, connection, generativity and hope. Gary has managed major faith and healthcare collaborations where he saw these causes in action.
Dr. Somava Saha is a Baha'i, and has dedicated her career to intergenerational wellbeing. She’s currently CEO of Wellbeing and Equity in the World, and her work has reached millions of lives.
Through this conversation, recorded in cooperation with Interfaith America, you'll gain a deeper understanding of how to tap into the power and resourcefulness that exist in the communities you serve -- and how you can work towards being a better ancestor.
Leading Causes of Life

Betterancestors.org
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
56 min
March 30 Bringing our whole selves, with Dr. Janette Ok
We often think of sacred texts like the Bible as being rigid, set in stone. But actually they’re really nuanced and complex, and crucially, they allow us to bring our own complexity. Dr. Janette H. Ok is a New Testament professor at Fuller Seminary. She empowers her students to embrace their unique perspectives and backgrounds, and use those as powerful tools in biblical reflection. In this conversation, Janette also explains how wisdom isn’t something you master, but a way of living you can cultivate. And she shares a practice for how we can go beyond quick Biblical memes, and dive deep into what might transform us.
Links and resources:
About Janette
About Saint Augustine of Hippo
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.
Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter
Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
56 min
March 23How words can heal, with Pádraig Ó Tuama
Pádraig Ó Tuama is an Irish poet, theologian and host of the On Being podcast, Poetry Unbound. Belonging, identity and reconciliation are at the heart of his work. Growing up bilingual, speaking both English and Irish, showed Pádraig that there are multiple ways to say things, and multiple ways to look at things. As a young gay man, Pádraig was subjected to abusive conversion practices, and it was his yearning for a better language to understand God and himself that led him to poetry and conflict mediation. Pádraig shows us both the brutality and the beauty of language, how words can destroy or nourish, and choosing which words to use is a power worth cultivating.
You’ll learn how to balance fear and courage, and why you should approach conflicts in your life by admitting what you don’t know. Padraig also shares a journaling practice to draw out your own poetic voice.
Links and resources
About Pádraig

Poetry Unbound

Pádraig’s memoir In the Shelter: Finding a Home in the World

Pádraig also read The Exorcist and Oh What A Marvel it Appeared to Me from his 2023 collection Feed the Beast

His latest collection is Kitchen Hymns
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
55 min
March 16 Thriving is relational, with Dr. Richard M. Lerner
Dr. Richard M. Lerner is a revolutionary force in the field of psychology, which had previously focused on what goes wrong with people. Richard’s relentlessly optimistic vision focuses on what can go right with people, how they can change and grow.
In this special conversation, Pam sits down with her mentor – someone who’s had an influential impact on her career and research, to discuss thriving, relationships, spirituality and transcendence.
Richard is the Bergstrom Chair in Applied Developmental Science, and the Director of the Institute for Applied Research in Youth Development at Tufts University.
Links and resources:
About Richard’s work
Richard speaks at the Vatican
Richard’s books
What makes young people thrive
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For:
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
49 min
March 09 The science behind faith, with David DeSteno
Spiritual practices can improve your physical and emotional health – but that doesn’t mean spirituality is a wellness hack. David DeSteno’s groundbreaking work explores how religious rituals like prayer and chanting are so beneficial as powerful psychological tools. But what happens if you take these rituals outside of their community context? David can speak to both sides of the equation: the science behind faith, and the mystery of the sacred.
David DeSteno is a professor of psychology at Northeastern University, where he directs the Social Emotions Lab – exploring the effects of emotions like gratitude and compassion. His latest book is called How God Works: The Science Behind the Benefits of Religion, and he hosts a podcast of the same name.
About David’s work:
David’s website
How God Works: The Science Behind the Benefits of Religion - 2021 book
How God Works podcast
Social Emotions Lab
David referenced:
Michael Pollen
Johns Hopkins Center for Psychedelic & Consciousness Research
Rabbi Shira Stutman
Rabbi Angela Buchdahl
Rev. Alex Leach’s Burning Man camp
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
52 min
March 02 Unleash your wisdom with Chip Conley
Many of us reach our 40s and have a wake-up call: a major event that shifts our perspective on what matters in life. Chip Conley had the most dramatic wake-up call ever: a near-death experience. Chip was giving a speech on stage when he died – literally. The experience would set off a chain reaction of events that changed the course of his life.
Chip is a renowned entrepreneur, best-selling author, and speaker known for his pioneering approach to innovation, leadership, and hospitality. He founded the country’s second-largest operator of boutique hotels, then led a travel revolution at Airbnb. But it was his brush with death that spurred him to launch the Modern Elder Academy, a series of workshops and programs that help folks reframe their relationship with aging.
In this episode, we talk about navigating transitions, cultivating purpose, and owning wisdom, and Chip shares a practice for tapping into your own wisdom.
Links and resources:
The Modern Elder Academy
The Anatomy of a Transition - free ebook
MEA on Facebook
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & For
Host: Pam King
Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook
Operations Manager: Lauren Kim
Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen
Senior Producer: Clare Wiley
Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis
Produced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
44 min
February 23 Tension brings us closer, with Elizabeth Oldfield
Elizabeth Oldfield is a writer, coach and host of the podcast The Sacred, who has dedicated her work to exploring clarity, courage and most of all, connection. And yet – her latest book Fully Alive dives into the seven deadly sins. That’s because Elizabeth believes that sins like pride, greed and wrath, are what break our connection to others. So maybe understanding how these sins are so destructive to our lives might just be a key to becoming more fully alive.
In this conversation, Pam and Elizabeth talk about why hard feelings – like anxiety, grief, and even tension with loved ones – are actually invitations. We have to let ourselves feel complicated, messy emotions in order to draw closer to others and to God. Elizabeth also shares a reflective journaling practice to help you live out your values.
Links and resources
About Elizabeth Oldfield
The Sacred podcast
Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times book
Fully Alive, Elizabeth’s Substack
With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health.
Learn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter
Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking.
About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media & Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenSenior Producer: Clare WileyExecutive Producer: Jakob LewisProduced by Great Feeling Studios
Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
58 min