Most leaders are building teams around talent and titles when the real unlock has nothing to do with either.

Patrick Lencioni, one of the most influential business thinkers on the planet, joins Brendan on episode 200 of the ScaleX Insider podcast to reveal why humble, hungry and smart beats brilliant every time, why your team's silence in meetings is costing you everything, and why the most dangerous person on your team might be your best performer. In this landmark 200th episode, Brendan sits down with

Patrick Lencioni, bestselling author of The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, The Ideal Team Player, and The Six Types of Working Genius, to deliver what is arguably the most practical masterclass on building high performing teams ever recorded on this show. Pat opens by dismantling the idea that talent alone builds great organisations and introduces the three attributes he believes every team player must have: humble, hungry, and smart, not intellectually smart but socially aware, able to read a room, and conscious of how their actions land on others.

He explains why most interviews are completely useless at identifying these qualities and shares three unconventional tactics that actually work, including taking candidates to a grocery store and what he calls scaring people with sincerity. The conversation then moves into the Six Types of Working Genius, a model that has reached almost two million people and growing, which identifies the six kinds of work that exist in every organisation and reveals that each of us is naturally energised by only two of them, competent in two, and quietly destroyed by the other two. Brendan shares that his own genius combination is galvanising and tenacity, and Pat unpacks exactly what that means for how he leads.

They then go deep into the Five Dysfunctions of a Team, walking through each layer of the pyramid from vulnerability-based trust all the way up to collective results, with Pat sharing a story about a famous leader who asked his team for honest feedback and then proceeded to dismiss every single piece of it in real time.

The conversation closes with a discussion on what flourishing leaders actually do differently, and Pat shares something deeply personal about why faith sits at the centre of everything for him.

00:00 Introduction and episode 200 milestone

02:10 What scaling with purpose really means

05:45 Hungry, humble and smart explained

10:20 Why most interviews fail to identify the right people

14:30 Three unconventional interviewing tactics that work

18:00 The Six Types of Working Genius origins

23:15 Walking through all six working geniuses

31:40 Brendan's genius combination galvanising and tenacity

35:20 Why leaders feel guilty doing work they love

39:10 The Five Dysfunctions of a Team overview

42:00 Dysfunction one vulnerability-based trust

48:30 The naked emperor story

53:15 Dysfunction two healthy conflict

58:40 Dysfunction three commitment and buy-in

1:03:20 Dysfunction four peer accountability

1:09:45 Dysfunction five inattention to collective results

1:14:10 The Scottie Pippen story

1:18:30 What flourishing leaders actually do

1:22:00 Three timeless takeaways

Guests referenced: Patrick Lencioni, Amy Edmondson, Phil Jackson, Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Jim Collins, Matthew Kelly, Paul Akers, Dan Sullivan, Gay Hendricks

Resources mentioned: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni, The Ideal Team Player by Patrick Lencioni, The Six Types of Working Genius by Patrick Lencioni, workinggenius.com, tablegroup.com, Two Second Lean by Paul Akers

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Host: Brendan McGurgan, Co-Founder Simple Scaling

Guest: Patrick Lencioni