Coaching for Leaders

667: The Way to Handle Oblivious Leadership, with Robert Sutton


Listen Later

Robert Sutton: The Friction Project

Robert Sutton is an organizational psychologist and professor of Management Science and Engineering in the Stanford Engineering School. He has given keynote speeches to more than 200 groups in 20 countries and served on numerous scholarly editorial boards. Bob’s work has been featured in The New York Times, BusinessWeek, The Atlantic, Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal, Vanity Fair, and The Washington Post.

He is a frequent guest on various television and radio programs, and has written seven books and two edited volumes, including the bestsellers The No A-hole Rule, Good Boss, Bad Boss, and Scaling Up Excellence. He is the co-author with Huggy Rao of The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder*.

We’ve all worked with someone who seemed just a bit oblivious. None of us want to be that kind of leader. In this conversation, Bob and I discuss key strategies for how to stop it and also prevent it.

Key Points
  • Privilege spares you hassles, but has a cost. You risk cluelessness about troubles in the organization.
  • Power and prestige can cause leaders to focus more on themselves, less on others, and act like the rules don’t apply to them.
  • An antidote to oblivious leadership is less transmission and more reception. Measure two behaviors: (1) how much the leader talks vs. others in interactions and (2) the ratio of questions the leader asks vs. statements the leader makes.
  • Either manage by walking out of the room or get into the details with ride alongs, direct help, and doing the work with folks. Be cautious about “managing by walking around” getting ritualistic.
  • Hierarchy is inevitable and useful. The most effective leaders flex it by knowing when to collaborate and when to direct.
  • Resources Mentioned
    • The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder* by Robert Sutton and Huggy Rao
    • Interview Notes

      Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

      Related Episodes
      • Use Power for Good and Not Evil, with Dacher Keltner (episode 254)
      • How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454)
      • How to Help People Speak Truth to Power, with Megan Reitz (episode 597)
      • How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)
      • Discover More

        Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

        ...more
        View all episodesView all episodes
        Download on the App Store

        Coaching for LeadersBy Dave Stachowiak

        • 4.8
        • 4.8
        • 4.8
        • 4.8
        • 4.8

        4.8

        1,393 ratings


        More shows like Coaching for Leaders

        View all
        The Look & Sound of Leadership by Essential Communications - Tom Henschel

        The Look & Sound of Leadership

        1,164 Listeners

        The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk by Ryan Hawk

        The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

        1,345 Listeners

        Teaching in Higher Ed by Bonni Stachowiak

        Teaching in Higher Ed

        374 Listeners

        HBR IdeaCast by Harvard Business Review

        HBR IdeaCast

        181 Listeners

        Negotiate Anything by Kwame Christian Esq., M.A.

        Negotiate Anything

        726 Listeners

        How to Be Awesome at Your Job by How to be Awesome at Your Job

        How to Be Awesome at Your Job

        1,038 Listeners

        Worklife with Adam Grant by TED

        Worklife with Adam Grant

        9,138 Listeners

        Speak Up: Develop Your Executive Presence & Leadership Communication Style by Laura Camacho

        Speak Up: Develop Your Executive Presence & Leadership Communication Style

        95 Listeners

        Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast by John Maxwell

        Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast

        382 Listeners

        Inside the Strategy Room by McKinsey & Company

        Inside the Strategy Room

        175 Listeners

        No Bullsh!t Leadership by Martin G Moore

        No Bullsh!t Leadership

        126 Listeners

        The Anxious Achiever by Morra Aarons-Mele

        The Anxious Achiever

        570 Listeners

        Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques by Matt Abrahams, Think Fast Talk Smart

        Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

        839 Listeners

        A Bit of Optimism by Simon Sinek

        A Bit of Optimism

        2,225 Listeners

        Coaching Real Leaders by Harvard Business Review / Muriel Wilkins

        Coaching Real Leaders

        670 Listeners

        HBR On Leadership by Harvard Business Review

        HBR On Leadership

        174 Listeners