Judith Joseph is a Columbia-trained psychiatrist and the founder of and chief investigator at Manhattan Behavioral Medicine, New York City’s premier clinical research site. She’s also a clinical assistant professor in child and adolescent psychiatry at NYU Langone Medical Center in Manhattan, and chairwoman of the Women in Medicine Board at Columbia University’s Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons. She is the author of High Functioning: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy*.

When we think about successful leaders, we often admire those who are loving towards others, can tolerate painful times, and know how to delay gratification. Those are all such important traits – and when we overindex on them, can become counter-productive. In this conversation, (Judith and I explore) when it’s no longer working and how to find the joy again.

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