At Last She Said It

These days it seems Latter-day Saints talk about the importance of temple attendance in almost every meeting and lesson. It makes sense: in 2001, then-Elder Russell M. Nelson explained, "Every activity, every lesson, all we do in the Church, point to the Lord and His Holy house." But might this relentless focus on a thing not all members participate in work as a separator in our congregations, communities, and relationships? In Episode 216, Susan and Cynthia return to the topic of the temple for a fourth time. It's a discussion that touches on everything from recommends to what Jesus shows and tells us about it in the Bible. Spoiler: It's complicated.

Shibboleths are customs, traditions, words, or phrasings that distinguish one group of people from another. Latter-day Saints have a lot of unique identifiers. Garment lines, beverage choices, vocabulary, or prayer styles might serve as reliable clues to whether or not someone belongs to our church. In Episode 215, Cynthia and Susan talk about some of these shibboleths and how they function within our culture to identify not only whether or not someone is a member, but in some cases what type of member they are.

"Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a book about girls who ask great questions?" This question from a 9-year-old inspired authors McArthur Krishna and Anne Pimentel to create their book Changemakers: Women Who Boldly Built Zion. By highlighting women's stories, the book affirms our roles in building, growing, and sustaining the Church—influencing organization, policy, and culture. In Episode 214, Cynthia and Susan are joined by the authors for a conversation about specific ways women's voices have mattered historically, and how we might continue to influence and effect change today and in the future.

"What is it like to be an introvert in a church that really supports extroversion?" When therapist C.A. Larson asked this question in a previous episode, it was a lightbulb moment for many listeners. Through voicemails, emails, and on social media, women of the ALSSI community reported feeling seen, and understanding their own church experiences in a new way. In Episode 213, Susan and Cynthia share and discuss the messages listeners submitted, as well as their own experiences. What might our church gain from fully embracing all personality types?

"My faith is this process of evolving, ebbing, flowing, forming, reforming, shaping, shape shifting," explains Kathie Debenham. It's no surprise that she describes her faith as a moving thing; as a dancer, her education includes a graduate certification focused on "observing, describing, recording, and making meaning of movement." In Episode 212, Kathie joins Susan and Cynthia to talk about her personal journey—where she's been, where she is, and how she intends to keep moving. She says, "I have given myself permission to allow my faith to continue to evolve as informed by my spiritual practice and by the light and knowledge I'm seeking."

When asked about the possibility of priesthood ordination for women in 1998, Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley famously told Larry King, "It would take another revelation to bring that about. I don't anticipate it." Big changes have come following revelations in LDS history, but must prophetic revelation always precede change? Even on a local level, many leaders are hesitant to innovate in small ways. Natalie Brown posits that "not every small experiment should require prophetic sign off." In Episode 211, she joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation about how change happens—or doesn't—at church. Do debate and discussion have a place, and if so, whose opinions should be considered? And what about transparency in the decision-making process?

In Part 2 of the conversation about biblical marriage, Susan and Cynthia ask Dr. Jennifer Bird about virginity, purity culture, and—of course!—biblical polygamy. Joseph Smith drew on polygamy in the Hebrew Bible to justify instituting the practice in early Mormonism, teaching that sometimes God not only condoned but actually mandated it. So what does a feminist biblical scholar say about it?

"If we want to look at this sacred collection called the Bible as our guide, let's be really clear and honest about what it was saying on its own terms first, then leave it up to everyone to figure out what we're going to do with that, because we're going to do different things with it," suggests Dr. Jennifer Bird. In Episode 209, she joins Susan and Cynthia for part one of a conversation about biblical marriage. Is it possible that in our reading of the Bible, we've layered a lot of our own ideas about marriage and relationships on top of it that were never there to begin with? What can we understand about biblical marriage based on what the texts actually say?

Latter-day Saints have a complicated relationship with the word patriarchy. We reverence it, including variations in some of our highest callings and ordinances, yet many members won't touch it in a discussion of women's rights or organizational equality. So how can we have meaningful conversations about it with other Church members? Amy McPhie Allebest says, "There are two ways to try to reach people's hearts and minds to say, 'I'm serious, this is a problem.' One is through facts, and one is through feelings." In Episode 208, Amy joins Cynthia and Susan to explore both in a discussion aimed at preparing listeners to have hard conversations in effective ways.

When it comes to talking about abuse and violence against women, "You have to become comfortable with being uncomfortable," explains Susan Madsen. In Episode 207, Dr. Madsen joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about the link between religiosity and abuse, and the power disparity that fosters it. Even where the Church is strongest, the statistics are troubling, to say the least. How might our church and its members move from lip service to leading "the army to protect home, family, and children?"