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Episode Highlights

Kyle [00:05:03] But then crucially, it was we and this is where the work kind of stepped in, was that she developed those patterns of of blocking how she really felt. So we have to look at when symptoms are cropping up and then how does this relate to today? Tomorrow, the next day was what was going on at half past three on a Thursday afternoon. What was who was there? What was going on? What might have what might be emotions of being that the party was trying to kind of get through because they they weren't being found. So then so that, you know, that's that takes a period of time because it's it's uncovering and then it's. All right. Well, what do I do instead? If I if I've been like this for kind of 20, 30 years. And why how do we change that? But I do remember being on vacation with my family in Spain, I. Some, you know, in that summer and getting a text message from her saying that she just completed a local kind of park run, kind of a five K sort of fun run. She said, I will most of it, but she said I did some jogging. And she said just to think that, you know, when I came to see you first, I was looking to get a wheelchair because I was having increasing problems with walking. You could only walk kind of, you know, 10, 15 steps. So that that was that's a kind of a plus a great success. I think with the thing with that is you one of the difficulties, I think, with the work that I do is that is the cause and effect and not necessarily closely linked.

Ari [00:08:58] I always talk about things like medicine began with infrastructure, we created aqueducts and things to move waste away from neighborhoods in order for to keep people from getting sick because they were sleeping next to pig poo. You know, I mean, this is this is that the reason for infrastructure at the beginning was a medical system is like, OK, you're you're sleeping next to the next to the feces. You're you're getting sick. OK, let's move that away from where you're where you're sleeping and living. So aqueducts and infrastructure was created. And I have a theory that we have with all of our roads and air travel and noise and bombardment of radio waves and et cetera, that we have infrastructurally created a system that causes more stress and more illness rather than helping to alleviate. And the other part of that theory is that we made this shit up and we can do better. So why don't we start looking at how do we create a system that causes less stress and is more in harmony and balance with nature? So if you're if you're going to look at from a 30000 foot view and go, I'm looking down on the world, go on.

Ari [00:14:22] Yeah. You know. It is very deep. One of my my mentors is Buckminster Fuller. And his work is to me, pretty amazing. And one of the things that he is quoted and I'm going to paraphrase because it's too long of a quote, but it's basically the auspicious notion that we need to work to be a value. Needs to end when there is 10000 people that have the ability to create the technology that would support the rest of the world population to work to be a value.

Kyle [00:19:45] I think the first thing you said about growing things in your garden, you know, for me, that's nothing to do with potentially giving salmonella to your neighbor. It's all about. That's all about control, isn't it? Because if you're self-sufficient, we don't own you. So whilst that's a conspiracy kind of notion, I think we all kind of know that big business. Runs the world. Really? And again, that's the stuff. The second thing that goes into the second piece is if people are self-sufficient, you know, and there's those power structures are kind of brought down.

Ari [00:22:31] Yeah. You know, I have a feeling that we're at this crossroads and we can either choose. To go with the status quo or we could choose to go with the revolution. And it doesn't have to be a violent revolution, as we've been seeing with a lot of protests, it could be a peaceful revolution, but a revolution is what's needed. And, you know, this show is called Create a new tomorrow for a reason, because it's all about activating your vision for a better world.

Ari [00:29:10] Absolutely, you know, that whole being curious is also the same thing is becoming aware of. And when you become aware of something. It's like shining the light into the darkness. And so what I heard you just say, in my words, right, is shine the light into the darkness on your feeling and emotion so that you can. Recognize that it's there. A lot of people don't know when they're feeling angry, sad, grieving, emotional or whatever, they just are feeling a stress distress

Kyle [00:33:45] The Web site is Energy Flow Coaching dot com. I'm on social media, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter as energy flow coaching and Kyle Davies. So, yeah, and, you know, I love talking about this kind of stuff. So if anyone is listening and is interested or has any questions, please do get in touch with me and ask because I'm more than happy to, you know, find you an email or even have a chat. So, yeah, I think it starts with with discussions like this does. That's how we you know, our creativity comes from this, that we share ideas and we develop new ones. And I think that this sort stuff is incredibly important. So thank you for having me on. Congratulations on this, because I think it's brilliant.

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Full Transcription

Ari&Kylepart2.mp3

Ari [00:00:06] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree. But I'm not backing down. I'm Ari Gronich. And this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:08] Welcome back to part two of this interview, if you missed the part one. Head back to the previous episode before you listen to this one. Now, we'll dive right into the conversation from the moment that we left off. Thanks again and welcome back.

Ari [00:01:23] So you've been doing this a long time and just as a as an example, as a story. Tell us a story about. A really great success that you had with somebody.

Kyle [00:01:40] So, yeah, a lady I had a while ago, but when she first came to see me, she had fibromyalgia and she'd said she was. She came in ice on a stick and she said she had been out looking at Pop, probably needing to get a wheelchair, so she was with a partner and she was in her 50s and she said, you know, I've had this for for a number of years. And it transpired that she'd been an alcoholic who was an alcoholic and had drunk for a lot of years, probably 20 years. And. And when she stopped drinking, which I think was like had been 10 years prior to when I'm seeing and then the fibromyalgia came. So it's almost as if then she's she becomes aware of probably what was already there. And when she began to do the work, it was really interesting to me because we talked about, you know, we talked.

Kyle [00:02:38] I know. I know. I don't spend a lot of time talking about people's childhoods, but we talked a little bit about what life was like for her. And again, looking from a medical history perspective, just looking at her symptoms or when they first, you know, what was it like? Did she get any symptoms when she was younger? But she told me about what it was, what her childhood was like. And it was pretty evident to me that she was bullied and emotionally abused, physically and emotionally abused by both her mother and her older sister. And that was really interesting, the way she talked about it, because she was talking about it in the same way as I'm talking to you now. You know, there was nothing. There was she wasn't redshifts, you know, wasn't registering any emotion at all. It was a matter of fact, she was quite happy. She told me she felt sorry for them because they obviously weren't nice people. No, because my perspective is that, well, what's happened is in order to deal with get through that trauma is that as a child, she or she kind of shut off. We know this happens, that we kind of shut off from those emotional processes. And she's that that's that's a becomes a learned pattern. And so she's she goes through life. Everything is shut down or her emotional side is kind of shut down. And again, this from this metaphorical perspective, will the body will is try to tell you something is right. Well, the emotion is shut down to the bodies now sending symptoms to say you're not feeling your emotion, you need to feel the emotions you have. So I invited her to take a no to symptoms. As I said, the ups and downs of when, you know, with the idea. Well, there's a message there. And when she came back to me for the second session, the first thing she was the aware became aware of was all of the emotion that she actually felt about her mother and a sister. And again, that wasn't the focus of the exercise. The focus of Rosewell is probably emotion that you're not feeling best. That's one of the fundamental things, is that the body sending a symptom because the emotion is not being felt. Because again, going back to what I was saying earlier, we know we can block our feelings with the emotions. Silts is still going. So if there are if there are symptoms there, there's every chance you might not be feeling any emotion underneath. We're just going to assume that it's there and not big fat. So that was the first thing was that she was kind of overwhelmed with, oh, my God, I know this. I obviously do feel a lot of her, a lot of anger about what happened.

Kyle [00:05:03] But then crucially, it was we and this is where the work kind of stepped in, was that she developed those patterns of of blocking how she really felt. So we have to look at when symptoms are cropping up and then how does this relate to today? Tomorrow, the next day was what was going on at half past three on a Thursday afternoon. What was who was there? What was going on? What might have what might be emotions of being that the party was trying to kind of get through because they they weren't being found. So then so that, you know, that's that takes a period of time because it's it's uncovering and then it's. All right. Well, what do I do instead? If I if I've been like this for kind of 20, 30 years. And why how do we change that? But I do remember being on vacation with my family in Spain, I. Some, you know, in that summer and getting a text message from her saying that she just completed a local kind of park run, kind of a five K sort of fun run. She said, I will most of it, but she said I did some jogging. And she said just to think that, you know, when I came to see you first, I was looking to get a wheelchair because I was having increasing problems with walking. You could only walk kind of, you know, 10, 15 steps. So that that was that's a kind of a plus a great success. I think with the thing with that is you one of the difficulties, I think, with the work that I do is that is the cause and effect and not necessarily closely linked.

Kyle [00:06:37] I think intuitively, people to know this, you know, go back to, you know, when you get a headache and you want need to drink more water, I think people can see that. Well, I got a headache. I'm probably dehydrated. Yeah, probably. Or in touch. Which caffeine. So I'm pretty cut back on the coke. Get some water. And that makes. We will come by that.

Kyle [00:06:52] But if you say, well, actually, you know, this is a bunch of emotion going on here that you're not feeling and your body tried to tell you with a headache. I think at one level, people sometimes know because it's it's not uncommon for people to say, oh, God.

Kyle [00:07:05] I got to get a stress headache after a terrible day at work. And I think they can understand that. The interesting thing, if that headache becomes chronic and you've got a headache for, you know, quite a bad headache and you waking up with a bad headache, it's not going away. And it's there for three weeks, for a month. You then take, you know, shit, I better go and see my my, my, my doctor now and then. The doctor's going to go on. Probably want to take some pills for that. So even though intuitively to begin with, they probably knew that. Well, yeah, this I'm just massively frustrated by then. Just going over having a glass of wine or taking some whatever they take by not actually addressing what's going on.

Kyle [00:07:44] And that's the tricky thing, is it's not easy to address what's going on here. Is there some is this something that some action I need to take? Because I feel this this level of frustration or whatever is what does this say? Something about my model of reality? Is this something about my expectations by the meaning I place in life? Do we need to look at that? And that's the kind of the deeper stuff. I suppose that's what a lot of my work is about is this is behavioral changes that people make. But there's also that other stuff or which is who I feel I am in relation to work, my boss and whatever it is. And therefore what what needs to change in order to get this me flowing and get my emotions flowing. But that it's not that's not easy work to do and to say that cause and effect seem to be a little bit further apart.

Kyle [00:08:33] So, yeah, yeah. That would that was that's what we stuck with me, that lady, because I just remember being on vacation, see in that text message and they can just.

Kyle [00:08:42] No that's that's what this is all about.

Ari [00:08:44] Absolutely. I love that. And.

Ari [00:08:49] So I'd like to take this, too, a little bit more of a 30000 foot view systemically, societally, right.

Ari [00:08:58] I always talk about things like medicine began with infrastructure, we created aqueducts and things to move waste away from neighborhoods in order for to keep people from getting sick because they were sleeping next to pig poo. You know, I mean, this is this is that the reason for infrastructure at the beginning was a medical system is like, OK, you're you're sleeping next to the next to the feces. You're you're getting sick. OK, let's move that away from where you're where you're sleeping and living. So aqueducts and infrastructure was created. And I have a theory that we have with all of our roads and air travel and noise and bombardment of radio waves and et cetera, that we have infrastructurally created a system that causes more stress and more illness rather than helping to alleviate. And the other part of that theory is that we made this shit up and we can do better. So why don't we start looking at how do we create a system that causes less stress and is more in harmony and balance with nature? So if you're if you're going to look at from a 30000 foot view and go, I'm looking down on the world, go on.

Ari [00:10:28] What can we do as a society? To begin the process of reconstructing how we've created this society. And and build one that is more attuned with nature and alleviate stress. What would be your thoughts, and I know this is like an out of the blue, not something that that you probably have heard a question like that before.

Kyle [00:11:00] But no, I haven't. But I just my sense of it, it probably starts with it does start with parenting, really, and it starts with the things that we teach our children. You know, I I agree completely with what you say, you know, from my perspective of, well, the sorts of illnesses that we were dealing with a couple hundred years ago are entirely different from the sorts of illnesses that we're dealing with. Most of the chronic health challenges we're facing now are lifestyle health issues. So, yeah, we've created something around convenience and a a pleasure fix without a deeper understanding of who we are. So I think I, I think from a younger age, we need to be introducing some of the ideas of, you know, where it is, you know, who are we? Where does our experience come from? What is what's what's of value and what's important. You know, even things simple things like like connection. But for me, empowerment is is crucial. And having people own their experience and be be honest with that, you know. So I think we should be teaching kids these things the way I parent. You know, I've got two daughters that are fifteen and seventeen. And, you know, I've done my best to kind of to empower them with, you know, to to kind of own their feelings, to express their feelings, to to walk their stand in their own truth. And, you know, I think that's kind of what we should be doing from that, because the young people then I think they'll come up with ideas of the kind of the complex stuff that we need to do with society as a whole. I think this the kind of the factory line approach to education for me is is not was not worked the you know, the left brain focus of teaching kids a bunch of facts that they then regurgitate for exams. You know, I don't know how different it is over there, but I know what it's like over here. Kids are taught to pass exams, really. And they kind of learn stuff to pass exams. So that's for me. It's it starts with children. But it would be it's it's I mean, parenting as well. I know that's that's a big thing, isn't it? But I think that people just have kids and I don't obviously think about how they parent. But you could argue that, you know, a huge proportion of the issues that we face up are parenting issues. But on a completely different note, there's an argument to say that statistically, when it comes to well-being and health, the key would be to be poor because the statistics would suggest that, you know, those people that are living in poverty, the kind of that the metrics for health are far worse. So if there was a basic universal living wage, that could go some way, you know, to help people get out of poverty, that might improve health outcomes. And, you know, you know, there's this there's a lot of it's deep stuff now. And there's there's a and I'm no expert on those.

Ari [00:14:22] Yeah. You know. It is very deep. One of my my mentors is Buckminster Fuller. And his work is to me, pretty amazing. And one of the things that he is quoted and I'm going to paraphrase because it's too long of a quote, but it's basically the auspicious notion that we need to work to be a value. Needs to end when there is 10000 people that have the ability to create the technology that would support the rest of the world population to work to be a value.

Ari [00:15:08] Is.

Ari [00:15:09] A thing that we've created in our society, and because of that, we've created this massive amount of stress because now we're not working for or towards our passions. We're working for or towards the ability to eat. We're working for or towards the ability to put shelter over our heads and to live at all. And that causes such a massive amount of stress that is completely unnecessary in a world that is abundant with shelter and food. Right. So we've made it so food is not, you know, at least in my area. They were talking a lot about not allowing you to make food in your own backyard. Have a have an outdoor garden in your own backyard. To me, that's because you might share it with the friend or a neighbor. And and it may have some salmonella or some disease or some this or that. And so because you may share it with a friend and it's not just a personal consumption, they didn't want to allow that. And I say, you know, there's like you go down the road, right? And you see all these oak trees or pine trees or whatever trees. And like, if all we did is every other tree, we planted an orange tree, an apple tree, a pear tree, a plum tree, you know, some berry bushes and stuff, you could walk down the road and eat. That's your real fast food, right? That's going to cause more health, less stress. If you were to do that in schools, right? You have community schools or community gardens inside of the school that feeds not only the school, but also teaches the kids about planting and nutrition and health and so on.

Ari [00:17:05] This would be something that would be really beneficial. And I had an experience once, and I'll just kind of briefly tell you about it. I was working with my buddy Mike Torsha, who had started this project called the Shape Up America campaign, was a project to nonprofit to help get kids healthier. And we went to New York City and we met with the New York City boards on for their schools, for all of New York. So we were talking to the person that was in charge of all of New York's schools. And we had the funding. We had the the the venders who were ready to put foods that are healthy and so on inside the schools could create the gardens on top of roofs in some cases because there's plenty of land everywhere, even if it's above right. Or hydroponics, you know, and so forth. So we had all of this prepared and ready and we were just doing our proposal and they said we have a contract with a sugar company and I'm not going to name the sugar company, but it's a pretty big company inside in New York City and we're not allowed to give any foods with alternative to sugar. So it can't be an artificial sweetener like stevia or monck fruit or something healthy or even a garvie. It had to be sugar or a sugar substitute, right. And that was a statewide contract that they had, so they declined to help their students become healthier because of this agreement or contract they had with the sugar company. And I was thinking to myself, like. If only they could understand the logic or lack of logic that they just said to me, you know, that they just talked about what is wrong with this picture. When money and contracts is more important than the health and living of our populace. And so it made me really think about how do we create these systemic changes. And, you know. And in the systemic change of. Of decreasing stress is probably the most important. To our app or our health that we can make,.

Kyle [00:19:44] I think there's a couple of things.

Kyle [00:19:45] I think the first thing you said about growing things in your garden, you know, for me, that's nothing to do with potentially giving salmonella to your neighbor. It's all about. That's all about control, isn't it? Because if you're self-sufficient, we don't own you. So whilst that's a conspiracy kind of notion, I think we all kind of know that big business. Runs the world. Really? And again, that's the stuff. The second thing that goes into the second piece is if people are self-sufficient, you know, and there's those power structures are kind of brought down.

Kyle [00:20:24] No, I think part of what's going on.

Kyle [00:20:27] You know, I don't know where you stand with it, but I think part of what's going on at the moment is I think we are going through this a huge period of dramatic change. And I think that part of it is there is a breaking down of throat. And we are, you know, arguably it's a very exciting time. But whenever there is a period of going through change, whether it's an individual, whether it's a culture, whether it's a planet. There is a period of chaos or seeming chaos while there is this breaking down and rebuilding. And I think that's where where we are right now. I think we're seeing transparency. I think we're seeing, you know, the the grip of the grip of the old of the old ideas of the old structures. I think that's kind of coming down on where we're witnessing it. So it's an exciting time to be right. But, yeah, I think it's it's it's gonna be it's fundamental, isn't it? I think it's I wondered whether things post-Soviet might begin to go back to something a little bit more local. But I know what it's like right here. People show up buying things in local stores. So, you know, their fruit and veg and their meat and whatever is is locally sourced. So it would be nice to see a proliferation of facts as we kind of move move forward. But yeah, I think, you know, we're in for a bit of a rocky road over the next couple years or rocky ride. But hopefully, you know, I'm very optimistic that there is this kind of global change in, you know, in a positive way.

Kyle [00:22:04] I think the old the old guard will try to hang onto power, you know, because those small number of people in power will want to hold onto their power.

Kyle [00:22:14] But I think that I think ultimately that we. Hopefully, we will see a fundamental change in, you know, we can look back in however many years time, 10, 20, 30 years, 40 years time, and look back and say, yeah, things things really were changing then.

Ari [00:22:31] Yeah. You know, I have a feeling that we're at this crossroads and we can either choose. To go with the status quo or we could choose to go with the revolution. And it doesn't have to be a violent revolution, as we've been seeing with a lot of protests, it could be a peaceful revolution, but a revolution is what's needed. And, you know, this show is called Create a new tomorrow for a reason, because it's all about activating your vision for a better world.

Ari [00:23:05] And, you know, I'm starting a mastermind to go along with this kind of a philosophy so that we can get people having these kinds of conversations on a regular basis that actually move forward, society that move forward, people individually, communities locally and society as a whole. And the idea is to really create this new tomorrow to figure out, OK, we're in this transition period and they're saying the new norm. Well, we don't want this to be the new norm where we're socially isolated and having to cover our faces and not being able to hug and hold and and so on. So we've got to figure out a new. New norm. And wouldn't it be awesome if that new norm was one that was in alignment with nature, that understood nature and still allowed technology to move forward faster while being in harmony with nature? And so that's kind of my my feeling is like, how do we recreate this society? Because we did make it up. We created it. It's our imaginations that that has developed every building that you see, every every piece of legislation that came from us humans. Right. It wasn't wasn't the monkeys. It wasn't the sharks. Wasn't the dolphins that created this. We created it. And I think people forget that we created this society and we have the ability and opportunity at any given moment to shift and change what we've done and what we're doing for a more optimal response to getting better results for a higher and greater performance. And so that's really the the basis of me wanting to do this show for me, wanting to have people like you on. And so I'm going to ask you. As I ask everybody and I ask you in the last episode that we did together, what are three one the three things that are actionable steps that somebody could actually take with them and do today, tomorrow and the next day to improve their world, to create a new tomorrow for themselves and for the world that they live in?

Kyle [00:25:40] Well, you're right. It does start with the with the individual, doesn't it? I think that I would like to kind of break things down into little chunks that we can do. So what I would say is, you know, in the last show I mentioned breathing and, you know, we talked about the importance of coming back into the body, breathing. But I think that's learning to feels very important. I think that the way we can do that is that as a listener, you could take a good take one day. I'm going to take two days or I'm going to take a week. And what I'm going to do during that day, two days a week, I'm going to allow myself to be curious about how I feel, what I feel about things. You this an idea about what I like to do? Well, that concept is going to allow myself to be curious of what I experience, maybe some uncomfortable feelings. I'm going to allow them to be there, because what instinctively happens is that we experience some discomfort, anger, fear, sad, whatever. It's frustration. And we instinctively we block it. We try to push it aside. We go into our head and we try to rationalize it away. So what I would say is take that take that period of time. What day? Two days week. And allow yourself to come into your body, be aware with feelings and what you notice an uncomfortable feeling. Just be aware of it and remind yourself that it's perfectly okay for me to feel this feeling that I can fully feel it, whatever slight tension or whatever, whatever it is, I can fully feel it. I can observe. I can feel it. I can watch it and experience it. It's not a problem. And I don't have to solve this. It may be that it's inviting me to take action. But critically, the first step is I can let myself feel this is OK. What I feel is not a problem. I don't have to solve the feeling that make it it just moves. It may be that it moves you to do something. But honoring that for me, that's kind of the first step, is that it's honoring your feelings because so often we're labeling them. I don't want to be feeling this. I want to be the type of person that feels this. And quite quickly, because often what happens is that emotion does lead to an increase in activity of within the thought centers of the brain. So usually what happens is that when we feel something, I think lights up and we usually we get caught in kind of mind loops. So I'm coming out of the head and it can be that you notice that your head goes first. And in those instances, coming back into the body, because this is the advantage of breathing when you've learned to breathe. You've lost your training yourself out of your head a little bit back into the body anyway. But that idea that. All right. Let's just come back into the body as a first step. Let me remind myself what I feel. And it's perfectly okay for me to feel this anger that this anger is not a problem. Okay. You can be what I feel this what is I'd like to do. Is there anything I need to do? Is it prompted me to say something or to take some action? Or do I just need to allow myself to feel this without it being a being a problem? So that's my that's my one major actionable step. And if it's the same people that even if it's for a day, it will I would be interested to know what that you know, what the experiences from that, because there is that instinct to resist immediately. You have to tighten up. Resisted more chatter.

Ari [00:29:10] Absolutely, you know, that whole being curious is also the same thing is becoming aware of. And when you become aware of something. It's like shining the light into the darkness. And so what I heard you just say, in my words, right, is shine the light into the darkness on your feeling and emotion so that you can. Recognize that it's there. A lot of people don't know when they're feeling angry, sad, grieving, emotional or whatever, they just are feeling a stress distress. Right.

Ari [00:29:55] So and the part that you said, not judging it. Right, not judging that feeling, it's OK that I'm angry. It's OK. I don't have to do anything with it. It's OK that I feel that that is to me a brilliant, you know, piece of advice for people. And then the only other thing that I would that I would, I guess, want to add to that.

Ari [00:30:21] Is and you said this is the now what? Right now that I know this, what am I going to do with it? And I might go a little bit further and ask, when was the first time I felt this just as a curious, curious question. When was the first time that I felt this kind of a feeling? And just so that my my body can unravel the cord to the very beginning, you know, it might have been when I was three, it might been. And when I was two, somebody said something that felt, you know, mean to me. And then I just got reminded of it.

Ari [00:30:58] Now, you know, in healing, we always say that there's nothing that can happen to you. Now. That is the cause of your feelings. It's all the memories of the first time it happened. You know, the first time that trauma happened.

Ari [00:31:16] And and so it's a it's a really interesting thing that you're saying about recognizing being curious.

Ari [00:31:25] So.

Kyle [00:31:27] I think that it is. I just I think the idea of what I feel is not a problem is massive because people immediately will be trying to rationalize away, trying to think it away, judging this so many things, because it's no surprise, is it?

Kyle [00:31:42] Because according to science, far as I'm aware, the same areas of the brain light up when you express an emotional pain is what you it's physical pain. We know that human beings are wired to try to get away from pain or dissociated from pain as quick as possible. So whether it be thinking my way out of it or trying to find meaning in it, whatever it is, or getting stuck in my hips, were just resisting it or tensing up, whatever is there is that that's usually what people are doing best. Something down the avenue that they're taking the idea of coming back. And you know what? What what was interesting for me is that you will have big anger that you're feeling, which I'm comfortable. But then there's a whole layer of suffering that goes with that, with the resistance and then the mental churning associates that we can get rid of that suffering and come back to whatever the feeling is, simply by coming into the body and then being, OK, this is not a problem. It may be that I've got to turn onto my boss and say, well, actually, look, I can't take all that extra shift right now. So it may be that the frustration or anger is inviting us to do that. But critically, the first day is always this isn't a problem. The feeling is not a problem. It doesn't mean that they say this may well be that there's a problem out there that I need to deal with. But that's what the emotion is for, to a certain extent, is giving us a potentially giving us a nudge.

Ari [00:33:10] Absolutely. And that is absolutely brilliant. And this has been an amazing conversation that we have that we've been on this journey of experience and discovering ways in which we can take our stresses and turn them into positive behaviors and positive positivity versus turning them inward into disease. And so I really appreciate you coming on and sharing this wisdom. How could people get a hold of you if they want to get a hold of you?

Kyle [00:33:45] The Web site is Energy Flow Coaching dot com. I'm on social media, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter as energy flow coaching and Kyle Davies. So, yeah, and, you know, I love talking about this kind of stuff. So if anyone is listening and is interested or has any questions, please do get in touch with me and ask because I'm more than happy to, you know, find you an email or even have a chat. So, yeah, I think it starts with with discussions like this does. That's how we you know, our creativity comes from this, that we share ideas and we develop new ones. And I think that this sort stuff is incredibly important. So thank you for having me on. Congratulations on this, because I think it's brilliant.

Ari [00:34:30] Absolutely. Thank you so much. And just in case anybody is wondering, you know, Kyle works with people in the UK, USA, Brazil, Canada, Argentina, I mean, anywhere in the world that you are. We have shrunk the world with Zoom. He is more than happy to be of service and has been for a number 20. What is it? Twenty five years now. So I look forward to having you on sometime in the future. And again, thank you for listening and thank you for being here and taking your time to to understand these, these things and have these conversations with us. I look forward to your comments. Thank you so much. Create a new tomorrow. I'm your host. Ari Gronich. Activate your vision for a better world and have a healthy day. Thank you so much.

Ari [00:35:26] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you.

Ari [00:35:33] If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, createanewtomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out.

Ari [00:35:51] And look forward to seeing you. Take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Hi, I am here with Kyle Davies, He specialize in helping individuals and teams cultivate innate wellness and flow. Essentially that means helping to improve the quality of internal experience and external 'performance'; cutting through the mental clutter that often slows us down, increasing energy levels and focus, and enhancing relationships with colleagues, clients, customers and family. here is the full episode hope you enjoy. Listen in your favorite podcast app.

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Episode Highlights

Ari [00:07:47] You know, here's the cool thing about this is. If you're hungry, right? You say to somebody, eat, not take a pill, typically it wouldn't be. Let's let's take a pill for that to suppress the hunger pangs. Although we do that in Western society, in Western medicine, a lot is, you know, do something, take something in order to suppress.

Ari [00:08:57] And I like your your analogy of walking down the hall because, you know, as I picture people piling on their symptoms as they walk down the hall. I also picture that picture of man going from straight up and starting to bend over and bend over and bend over and the weight of all of these symptoms that are causing us to all of a sudden, you know, you get 80 years old and you're staring at your feet. You can't look up anymore because your back is too arched. And we didn't do anything to take care of the cause. We only were treating symptoms and it just kept piling up.

Kyle [00:12:27] And I think the kind of the the adverse childhood experiences research aces up by childhood trauma has really brought to the fore the this connection between mind and body and how trauma and emotional trauma in early life and probably any point in life can ultimately lead. To a whole host of things, from poor educational attainment, through to addiction, through to mental health problems, through to diabetes, stroke, cancer, heart disease. So I think that's kind of opened up people's eyes because it seems that more people are aware of this cause. Trauma is such a buzz word now is named within health. Yeah.

Kyle [00:15:46] You know, the thing I preach to my clients is whatever you feel in your body is feedback. And it's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. It's something for you to pay attention to because it's your body trying to tell you something. And it's that, again, as I've been saying, that that that message of, well, if you if you don't pay attention to it now, you there's every chance your body to punch you in the face with something nasty later.

Ari [00:16:07] Yeah. You know, that's that is that is really the key here is if you don't pay attention now. So to build more body awareness in our last episode. One of the things that you had suggested was stopping to breathe more.

Ari [00:21:29] You know, in today's day and age, we've gotten away from in some cases, that which I believe is part of the causes of massive PTSD among our soldiers is because we've gotten to this place where our warriors. It's not okay for them to express their emotions and their feelings. They have to soldier on. And therefore, they've become less able or capable of dealing with some of those emotions long term and some of the experiences long term because they don't have their comrades. There are other soldiers next to them being vulnerable with them

Ari [00:27:58] Yeah. You know, I have worked a lot with PTSD with that. And I used to volunteer at the V.A. in Los Angeles and worked a lot with Vietnam vets and so on. And, you know, there was a huge difference between the vets from the Korean and World War to versus Vietnam and and after. And I think that in many cases it goes along with the ending of things like the block party. You know, in the United States, a lot of neighbors don't know their neighbors anymore. A lot of people don't know what's going on with the people next door. And, you know, I say the block party is kind of a metaphor for tribe, for people getting together and learning about each other and becoming friends and support systems and so on. I mean. You know, especially for men, and I'm not going to say this is exclusive to men, but men tend to believe that they don't need anybody or anything more than women. Women always say we need our sewing circle. We need our, you know. And so a circle reading circle. Or support system, et cetera. It's a little more natural for women to be among other women and it's a little more natural for men to be in their cave. And, you know, I'm going to go in my cave. I'm going to lick my wounds myself.

Kyle [00:40:01] I think that's that's all that's the kind of a starting point. It's a really interesting thing within the organizational world when you're looking at well-being, I find, because there are those organizations that recognize that. Well, yeah. If we look after our employees, they they'll be productive. They'll be happy. They can stick with us. They can build careers here and that. That's brilliant. Sounds like the culture that Top-Down culture is in place where at the top that they're buying into that that notion that well-being and productivity and engagement are all linked. Mean because you give those organizations where they can.

Kyle [00:44:07] First, we've got to know that, well, this is person is a person that got a home life which will be affecting. However simple the solution may be, this is a home life mess. You know, that's going to affect them. So I think that it's really important that people because managers talk about this now as well. They say, I find that I'm managing now and I'm almost going to be a friend because what you swish, especially if I've got an older manager and he'll say, well, 30 years ago I would just be you know, you tell people to get on with it. And you you assess whether they've got the skills or the training needed. But now he said that, you know, they'll say, well, I've taught you, but I took it about much more than just the skills. And I think that's I think so that, you know. I think ruining up to that, but that's incredibly important.

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Full Transcription

Ari&Kylepart1.mp3

Ari [00:00:00] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down.

Ari [00:00:50] I'm Ari Gronich and this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:03] Welcome back to another episode of Create a New Tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich, and I am back with Kyle Davie's from Wales. He was on this show before I had to keep talking to him. With a longer conversation because he's so fascinating. He's a chartered psychologist, therapist, coach, trainer, author, and he's the creator of Energy Flow Coaching, which provides a framework and process for tapping into our innate ability to attain optimum health, wellbeing, creativity and clarity of mind.

Ari [00:01:40] Kyle, take it away a little bit.

Ari [00:01:43] Tell us a little bit about how come I'm having you back on here?

Ari [00:01:46] I mean, what is so fascinating about the work that you do that is so unusual that I would that I would say, hey, I need you to come back.

Kyle [00:01:57] It's great to be back. Thanks for having me again. And you really put me on the spot there. It's funny, we're definitely living in a time where there are more healers and healing modalities than ever before in history. And there's obviously a lot of good people out there doing a lot of good work. And I lose track of everything that's out there. Go back 20, 25 years. When I started practicing as a therapist, I kind of thought I knew everything that was out there. Right. And I had a handle on it. Whereas now it's just kind of mushroom drinking and there are so many things out there. But what is what's so unique about what I do?

Kyle [00:02:44] I'm sure there's probably the way I do it. I'm sure there are a lot of this, a lot of overlap in many ways.

Kyle [00:02:50] I think it's probably because I'm in a very simple level. I am looking at, as I touched on in the last show, that I'm looking at what people experience symptoms of fatigue or pain, even anxiety and depression.

Kyle [00:03:09] I'm looking at them from a perspective of a body brain in a chronic state of stress. But I actually look at it from this idea that, well, the symptom is a messenger. And if you experience a severe symptom, it's actually your body's really shouting at you. So the simplest of examples could be. Well, if I am if my body needs me to eat, it sends me a sensation in the form of very often a mild rumbling. And that's that's that's a tap on the shoulder inviting me to do something. If I if I ignore that, it goes away and then it comes back and I can continue to ignore it. But look, keep coming back and each time it comes back. Arguably it'll be a little bit more intense or it may change or morph into something else. So my I take that idea and apply it to the symptoms of the health challenges that I'm working with. The underlying that, there's an underlying message behind the symptom. And it's not necessarily that that, you know, as if the symptom has caused the symptoms have morphed, changed or got worse over time. It's not necessarily that the message is any different. So I have a book called The Intelligent Body, which is I've got my nicely positioned to find my head. And in that, I talk about something called what I see as the whole way of health and the whole way of health effectively means that people walk down a hallway and as they walk down the hallway, symptoms seem to get worse or more intense. So what I noticed in working with people with chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, Emmy post, viral fatigue is that they didn't they weren't kind of perfectly healthy. And then all of a sudden they got those challenges. For the most part, what it would seem like was that they were much younger. They would present with a variety of other symptoms. So very often people would say, well, I'm forty five now. I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue three years ago and I probably had symptoms and maybe a couple years before that. And if we dig a little bit deeper, they may say, well, actually when I was fifteen I used to get migraines, but then I went to the doctor and the doctor gave me some meds that though that went away. And then when I was a student, I began to get some anxiety and some occasional stomach upset. But I changed my diet a bit and I know things changed and that went away. And then when I was I began to get fatigue symptoms and then bit of anxiety came back.

Kyle [00:05:45] So that tends to be a pattern from the way I looked at it. People were walking down a hallway. And even though I do acknowledge that all of these conditions are sort of different, I do kind of believe that in many instances the message is large. The same, and even though the symptoms could change for an individual, sometimes they don't. Sometimes a person experiences anxiety, age 15 and age 45, they still have anxiety. It's just maybe much worse. But it could be that the symptoms change as as they get older. And again, like hunger, there seems to be this cyclic kind of nature where symptoms come and then they recede and then they come back again and either a little bit a little bit more intense or they vary. And it is almost as if the body is saying, you need to listen to me, you need to listen to the message. And I'm trying to convey. And if you don't, I'm going to show you a little bit louder. So that's one of the things. So then. So I suppose we are again, we are in with our medicalized mindset. We tend to view symptoms as bad evil invaders that we want to do something about. And we have a very symptom focused approach, which is, again, from conventional medicine, that which is will you give me something to work on the symptoms? So that's that. So there's a bit of mindset in that it's trying to get people to look at symptoms as health helpful messengers rather than looking at them as evil invaders. So that's a first cut a chunk of of my work. But it then goes into, again, like I touched on in the last show. This idea of, well, where does my experience come from? Because if my body is stressed and if there's a big chunk of emotional stress and that, what gives rise to that experience. So I try I will I do take people on something of a spiritual journey, which is begin to have them understand or expand their sense of identity, who they see and believe themselves to be in relation to kind of life. And all that.

Ari [00:07:45] It sounds.

Ari [00:07:47] You know, here's the cool thing about this is. If you're hungry, right? You say to somebody, eat, not take a pill, typically it wouldn't be. Let's let's take a pill for that to suppress the hunger pangs. Although we do that in Western society, in Western medicine, a lot is, you know, do something, take something in order to suppress.

Ari [00:08:11] If you got a headache and it's because you haven't had enough water, you've been drinking too much soda. I wouldn't say take my green pill for that headache. I'd say drink some water and you'll take care of the cause of the symptom. And we do a lot. You mentioned a little bit.

Ari [00:08:29] I mean, in our Western medicine, thinking we do a lot of symptom control vs. root cause control. And by doing that we can suppress symptoms but cause the root the make the root cause get worse and worse and worse, which is why we have this massive deterioration of health over the years.

Ari [00:08:57] And I like your your analogy of walking down the hall because, you know, as I picture people piling on their symptoms as they walk down the hall. I also picture that picture of man going from straight up and starting to bend over and bend over and bend over and the weight of all of these symptoms that are causing us to all of a sudden, you know, you get 80 years old and you're staring at your feet. You can't look up anymore because your back is too arched. And we didn't do anything to take care of the cause. We only were treating symptoms and it just kept piling up.

Kyle [00:09:42] So the only sort of interesting piece on that one for me, it's sort of interesting, sorry, on that the whole way of health idea is that what I'm trying to do is have people turn around and walk back down the hallway. And the interesting thing I think about that is that it's very often the case that as people go back down the hallway, back towards health. Is that the pattern of symptoms is often kind of reverses itself. So if I have someone say something to that says, well, actually, the first symptom I had was sleep disturbance, then it's very often that either sleep disturbance reappears or is the last symptom to go. Or if somebody says, well, I used to have anxiety before I had chronic fatigue, I used to have anxiety. Very often people say, oh, well, I haven't. I've had a month of no chronic fatigue like symptoms, of aches, pains, grateful. But what I have had is a return of my anxiety. Say, that's a good thing because you're walking back down the hallway of health. So that's that's a sort of I think that's kind of a an interesting idea that the particularly one of the things I emphasize to my clients is that the message beyond the symptom may not be drastically different.

Kyle [00:10:47] So when you had mild headaches, whatever it was 20 years ago, maybe that the message was exactly the same as it is now, your kind of what, tags with chronic fatigue? You know, 20 years later, what we tend to do, I think unconsciously, is we equate the the it's the the necessary size of the solution to the size of the problem. So if I've got really big symptoms, there's got to be a really big cause. And in my experience, that isn't necessarily the case. It could be that actually what's happened is the body's just shouting a little bit louder and a little bit louder. And if we can understand what that is, that causes because the difficulty is I you know, I can see the difficulty is, as you said, with a headache, a headache can mean just so many different things. And, of course, the type of practitioner you go to is going to is going to be viewing your symptoms from from their perspective. This is one of the things that I find is the majority, because not many people are, Vertamae. The majority of people I work with will have seen three, four, five to 10 different health practitioners before they've seen me. So they will have worked on diet. They will have had acupuncture.

Kyle [00:12:00] You know, they may have had some counseling. Used to be a number of things they will have worked on.

Kyle [00:12:05] So that, again, is probably why, even though I you know, I believe that, well, nutrition, sleep, exercise, emotion, these are all the pillars of health. Very often the people that I work with have addressed the other areas first and that they are still missing that big emotional piece, which I feel is kind of the main piece.

Kyle [00:12:27] And I think the kind of the the adverse childhood experiences research aces up by childhood trauma has really brought to the fore the this connection between mind and body and how trauma and emotional trauma in early life and probably any point in life can ultimately lead. To a whole host of things, from poor educational attainment, through to addiction, through to mental health problems, through to diabetes, stroke, cancer, heart disease. So I think that's kind of opened up people's eyes because it seems that more people are aware of this cause. Trauma is such a buzz word now is named within health. Yeah.

Ari [00:13:13] Yeah, it is a buzz word. However. Here's my question to you. Somebody is walking down the road.

Ari [00:13:25] They get a twinge.

Ari [00:13:27] They don't notice the twinge or they notice it is a subtle thing and they ignore it, then they continue to walk, continue to walk, continue to walk. And we'll say that they're walking down a really long hallway because it's you know, it's it takes time. So year long hallway. Right.

Ari [00:13:44] And. Then it gets to a place where it's on ignorable. How could somebody. Acknowledge what's happening before it becomes an ignorable.

Kyle [00:14:03] Yeah, I think that's a that's that's a great question, actually, and that was one of the things that because I started my career working in business consulting, went into healthcare, and now I kind of do both where I do kind of well-being stuff within within organizations.

Kyle [00:14:19] But what I what I found is that the fundamental principles underpin effective performance, mental clarity, intellect and stuff of the sort. The same for health, certainly from an emotional perspective.

Kyle [00:14:35] So I think the key thing is being more body aware and recognizing that actually my body has my back, my body, this vehicle that I moving around this planet on actually is trying to look after me and rather than, you know, if I can allow myself to step out, if I can recognize that. Right.

Kyle [00:14:59] Well, there is one way of dealing with things and that's trying to just crack on soldier from patch up, put a Band-Aid over it. That's one way of dealing with things.

Kyle [00:15:09] But actually, for my longer term experience of life, my wellbeing, my performance, my health, I'm better off actually paying attention if something's not quite right. Just have a look at it. Just let's just pause for a minute and figure that out. So, again, it's it's I suppose it's it's having the the knowledge that I pay attention to it now. There's every chart enough. I don't know what it is. There's every chance that it could just get worse and worse and worse.

Kyle [00:15:38] So it's that. Stop, pause. Pay attention to what's going on and be okay with whatever is whatever.

Kyle [00:15:46] You know, the thing I preach to my clients is whatever you feel in your body is feedback. And it's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. It's something for you to pay attention to because it's your body trying to tell you something. And it's that, again, as I've been saying, that that that message of, well, if you if you don't pay attention to it now, you there's every chance your body to punch you in the face with something nasty later.

Ari [00:16:07] Yeah. You know, that's that is that is really the key here is if you don't pay attention now. So to build more body awareness in our last episode. One of the things that you had suggested was stopping to breathe more.

Ari [00:16:28] I have another kind of a question that goes along side that mental toughness vs. emotional and physical awareness, because some people believe that if they're going to be tough, then they have to.

Ari [00:16:47] As you said, soldiers through the pain. How does soldiering, through the pain make you weaker, not tougher? And being more aware of what's going on cause you to be stronger as a as a human being, as a person, more optimal. Etcetera

Kyle [00:17:07] That is a great, great question. I think one of the fundamental underpinning pillars, if you will, of my work is that when we deviate from the essence of who we are. The flow of energy, the flow of consciousness that we are. I would say our true self. We deviate from our true self. Then problems ensue. And that's when we can become ill. And I recognize that science reasonably wolly. But, you know. Okay. Part of that is when we don't allow ourselves to feel our feelings fill up. Feel our emotions and all the rest of it. So so the other one level, I would say, OK, well, I can go to the gym and, you know, deep down I feel I want to go to the gym. I want to work out. I will I will be free. I want to be strong. And it feels right. So that's me being me doing that no matter what anyone else thinks. But that's me being me. And it's I I'm prepared to kind of push myself and exert myself. And some of that's going to hurt. And now, though, I will might require what would be called mental toughness in order to push myself through over some hurdles. But in doing that, I am I would hope that I'm very aware of the difference between kind of good pain and bad pain. But also, I'm I'm doing that. I'm aligned. I'm still aligned with my true self. So I'm not I'm not you know, I'm doing whatever I'm doing because I'm being me in doing it. I think that we have a natural, innate resilience within us. But I think we have to be true to ourselves.

Kyle [00:18:47] That's a deeper sense of self than I think when we need that.

Kyle [00:18:52] Otherwise, I think if our behavior is motivated by our ego like mind or our conditioning or pleasing other people, whatever, is when our behavior is motivated from that level and we're trying to be tough for that level, then I think that's when we have problems. So I think there's this always needing to be, you know, as you know, this needing to be aware of whether whether something is good or bad. You know, I know if I'm in the gym and I work and I know the difference between the good pain and barfing. So we absolutely need that. We need to be aware. Okay. Well, is there is there something is there an issue here? But for me, that's the thing with mental toughness. I think that I can because of my work, I'm very young, because of a lot of my work is about our emotion. And there's lots of theories of emotions. There's no Nessel. There's no particular agreement on it. I'm quite a fan of the neurologist Antonio de Mazzeo. And his one of his ideas is that while our emotion and our feelings are slightly different, our emotion is a nonconscious process, which then almost instantaneously triggers feelings.

Kyle [00:20:00] So I think I draw on that idea. And when I apply it to my work, I look at it from the perspective of. Right.

Kyle [00:20:08] Well, we know that it's entirely possible for us to block feelings. We know it's possible for us to get into our heads. And if we get into a head, we can shut off from the feedback from our body so we can block out feelings. But even if we block out feelings, we're probably not blocking the emotional processes and processing that's happening. So emotion is kind of still ongoing because emotion, just like hunger needs to happen to alert you to when you know, you you you need to eat because of course, there are people and I've worked with people that say they're not aware of when they're hungry because they've learned to block out a lot of that feedback. So we can do that with our emotional feelings, but we're not blocking out the emotion. The emotions still go. So that's one of my issues with men, mental toughness in a kind of a conventional way of right. We'll just soldier on. The second is that you run the risk of just blocking out your emotional truth. That critically, for me, that's about right. Well, who I am, if I'm doing something for the wrong reasons, then it's it'll come back and bite me on the ass later.

Kyle [00:21:14] That make sense.

Ari [00:21:15] Yeah, that makes it makes perfect sense. And it kind of goes along with this saying that a warrior's greatest strength is there is their vulnerability and.

Ari [00:21:29] You know, in today's day and age, we've gotten away from in some cases, that which I believe is part of the causes of massive PTSD among our soldiers is because we've gotten to this place where our warriors. It's not okay for them to express their emotions and their feelings. They have to soldier on. And therefore, they've become less able or capable of dealing with some of those emotions long term and some of the experiences long term because they don't have their comrades. There are other soldiers next to them being vulnerable with them.

Ari [00:22:17] And I think, you know, in some cases, it's moving back a little bit towards that.

Ari [00:22:22] But, you know, in more of an older time, a soldier that was injured or was experiencing something had all of the other soldiers to be there, directly provide that community support, which allowed them to soldier on.

Ari [00:22:43] The vulnerability was their greatest strength because it brought them closer as a unit. Right. And so I believe that, you know, with PTSD and some of these other things, that we could use more emotional intelligence and community support around the vulnerability aspect during the crisis's.

Ari [00:23:09] Or at play after so that we don't have to bring them home with us because we've been stuffing it for a year or two. You know what I mean?

Kyle [00:23:18] I'm telling you, there's a couple of points I'd like to make with that. So I think that's. Firstly, I think that we have probably have a tendency to medicate people too quickly and believe that there is a problem too quickly. So if if if a person loses a family member, for example, they will go through a grieving process. And we understand that there is a grieving process which could give rise to anger, depression, anxiety, a whole host of emotions and possibly symptoms that could arise as a result of that process now.

Kyle [00:23:53] So I view that because I think that we have an emotional system reset. So I think that we are designed to come back into balance in exactly the same ways as our physical body does that, you know, if you if you if you were running down the road and you fall over you Graziani, it really hurts. But, you know, if you do absolutely nothing, your knee will heal itself. Yes. It goes through a process where, you know, a scab forms over the knee that's really itchy and you want to pick at it. But ultimately, if you leave it be, your knee will heal. So understanding Belloc. Well, OK, well, part of that kind of idea of the scab forming and a healing in it being itchy and it being uncomfortable, and there's there's there's an emotional equivalent of that. So I think you're getting over trauma that there is you know, you kind of go through a process and understanding that. And so for me, that's that's kind of important. One of the things that I say my corporate work is that when I talk about resilience, I see people that are resilient. So they don't feel any things, not that they like really happy all the time, but they they feel everything. So which is exactly the point you just made, is being vulnerable and allowing that is really important. So 18 months ago, I went through divorce. It was all a big shock for me. It was devastating to put me on the floor, but I really had to kind of walk my talk and recognize that I've gone through a process of trauma here. And that's going to mean that there's going to be a my my emotional experience and my just, you know, my kind of health is going to be impacted to a certain extent. So I need to expect things to happen. But crucially, that emotional system reset will kick in as long as I get on with life. So it's I think it's really important that we continue to move forward with a sense of purpose, with a sense of meaning and recognize that, well, yeah, even in, you know, moving forward, there is I'm going to be experiencing stuff and that's okay if I stop moving forward. And I fixate on the fact that if I was like, oh, no, I don't feel good. This is not I mean, this shouldn't be happening.

Kyle [00:25:59] Maybe I should take some drugs. I think that's when things begin to go wrong. I think if we I think I think people are far more resilient than we currently have to believe. I think that the experience of life at the moment is that we get this I think a lot with young people is that there is this sense that you not only have a nice car and a nice job, you've got to you haven't you got to be crushing it. You've got to be having a good time all of the time. And I think the problem with that is that there is a lack of tolerance for what are the ups and downs of life. You know, life is filled with ebbs and flows. And there is you know, there is bliss and happiness and there's loss and sadness and, you know, all the rest of it. And part of being a human being is having the experience of all of those. The fact that we can experience those contrasts. And isn't it wonderful that we can. And none of it is a problem if we allow ourselves to recognize. Will all of that naturally flows if we don't leave? If we don't judge it. It will naturally flow. And it's not that it's a problem, as I say. I think that too quickly we get in and we look at it as this is this is a problem. So I agree with that thing on PTSD. I've not really done any work with PTSD with soldiers, but I'm really curious. I would be really curious if the support was there, but camaraderie was there. Whether that's, you know, in the forces or whether it's, you know, when they're when they're kind of back home and even if they're back on City Street, but also whether if they're if they're having this if they're engaged in something which which enables them to feel a sense of meaning and purpose, and then they feel it moving forward in their lives.

Kyle [00:27:36] You know, I think that they can. The chances of of going through the ups and downs, the healing process are facilitated. You know, but if there's a you know, something. All right. And there's and there's and if they're not engaged, anything that enables them to get that meaning and purpose out of life, I think then the problems can can ensue if. Does that make sense?

Ari [00:27:58] Yeah. You know, I have worked a lot with PTSD with that. And I used to volunteer at the V.A. in Los Angeles and worked a lot with Vietnam vets and so on. And, you know, there was a huge difference between the vets from the Korean and World War to versus Vietnam and and after. And I think that in many cases it goes along with the ending of things like the block party. You know, in the United States, a lot of neighbors don't know their neighbors anymore. A lot of people don't know what's going on with the people next door. And, you know, I say the block party is kind of a metaphor for tribe, for people getting together and learning about each other and becoming friends and support systems and so on. I mean. You know, especially for men, and I'm not going to say this is exclusive to men, but men tend to believe that they don't need anybody or anything more than women. Women always say we need our sewing circle. We need our, you know. And so a circle reading circle. Or support system, et cetera. It's a little more natural for women to be among other women and it's a little more natural for men to be in their cave. And, you know, I'm going to go in my cave. I'm going to lick my wounds myself.

Ari [00:29:43] Right. And when I'm ready, I will then come back out. But we used to have a lot of men in the cave. We used to have rituals for four men, more that would. Initiate them into a tribe. Right.

Ari [00:30:04] And the tribe has been diminishing the tribal versions of of getting together to get together nowadays seems to be. Let's go get a drink and dinner and then, you know, and chat about whatever beating around the bush, so to speak. Small talk, but not very in-depth that we save that in depth for maybe if we choose to go to a psychologist or if we choose to go to a therapist, which still is not necessarily a support system. And so that's where I believe the.

Ari [00:30:47] The work needs to be done, more is in creating systems where we can get together and discuss our emotional intelligence and discuss our philosophies.

Ari [00:30:59] And, you know, I had a very similar experience as you in the last.

Ari [00:31:06] Year and a half. Divorce and.

Ari [00:31:10] And I probably did the opposite of you. I went into my cave. And I fought myself for a long time and I never felt like I had my tribe because my tribe to me as it was in Los Angeles. And so they're not next to me. They're not here with me. They can't come over and comfort me and listen to me while I'm screaming and crying. So I'm just gonna do that myself.

Ari [00:31:42] And I probably would have had a much more effective. Part of that year and a half.

Ari [00:31:51] Had I reached out more and said, I need help, I am in this place of vulnerability and I need help.

Ari [00:32:01] And that is such a difficult thing. For me to do for for most people to do so.

Ari [00:32:10] What would you say? I know what I say to people who who do that get over yourself and start calling people, you know, who your first friend. But what would you say to somebody who's going through such a tough time that it's affecting their physical health, their mental health, et cetera?

Kyle [00:32:28] I'm well aware as a first step, pretty much the same as you're saying, that, to be honest with you, because I think there is that again, you know, Polly, vagal fear is pretty big now in children, not because one of the things that that talks about is really when you look at how that translates into every practice. It's like, well, the most important thing is the relationship between the therapist and the client, which is all about connections. So, you know, that says, right. Well, we we can regulate ourselves through breathing, but very often we regulate each other through connected to each other as social beings. We need to connect.

Kyle [00:33:00] And I think, you know, so I. I agree completely with what you're saying. Another thing I would say over here is that men used to go to the to the pub probably much more than they do. So I think you've got that thing that you you don't have the sense of community so much you do in little places. But a lot of the time, not so much of people. As you say, people don't know the names of people that go out so much. You know, people don't go out for a for a beer or whatever. So the shared experiences are not necessarily there. So, yeah, I do. I would say as a starter, exactly the same as you to pick, because I do think that intuitively that's what people want to do.

Kyle [00:33:40] It's just that, of course, historically, those support systems, those connections, they were just already in place. You've got to think about it was because now we do have to think about it so that it's recognized. I think a lot of what I do is trying to get people to tap into what what feels right for them. So I would I would do what I could through a coaching session to invite somebody to to allow the natural intuitive sense to come to the fore. My my sense of it is that when that happens, that people would say, well, you want to reach out. I want to connect. I want to I want to feel this either is OK. I was going to be OK. So it's OK. Well, how can we do that? So yeah, it's it is it is a case of reaching out and and then explaining as well. Right. Well, if you will kind of go into a cave and I think women do this as well. And I think probably more so maybe now know that there are probably more women. I may be wrong with this, but my sense is that the way things have been historically, that is certainly within the organizational world. Things that I see is that very often women take on a more of a masculine energy, a little bit more in order to try to facilitate their journey or their career path. So I think that you can get women with with the balance of masculine and feminine energy. Maybe they displace more masculine traits. They may well go into themselves. And I think, again is for me, it's sort of an educational process identified.

Kyle [00:35:12] Well, what was the results of that? You know, how are you feeling? And what's you know, how long have you been feeling this? Are things improving or argue, you know, how is that working out for you kind of thing? Well, this may be an alternative because understanding that this is where we came from, we came from that space where we connected. We regularly teach. We regulate each other through connection. It's naturally from primates through to humans is naturally what we do is we this is one of the things that's been interesting about kov. It isn't. It is the with the social distancing and people being locked in their homes is that naturally we want to touch people. We want to kiss. That's what we regulate each other through the we want to hope, we want to connect. And that's actually what most children will do. We'll see. So we all really want to do that, but it's allowing that natural kind of tendency to come out. So I suppose that's a pretty big part of what I do is trying to get people to recognize that, you know, who they are, but also that the natural sense of what feels right for them.

Ari [00:36:18] Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you've you've mentioned our new world. I try to stay a little bit away from the debates about covid because my opinion is typically more nuanced rather than extreme and more based in science rather than in politics. So I get away from it a little bit. But the fact of the matter is, is that distance makes for people to. What's our suicide rate at this point? It's skyrocketed. We've you know, that is a stress response to isolation and lack of connection. And that alone is so damaging. But, you know, one of the things that I like to do and you do a lot of corporate work as well as that as I have, is I used to consult the companies both on their wellness as well as their culture. And one of the things that my suggestion is to them. Is that they begin to have fire side or fire circles. And what I mean by fire circle is you put something in the middle that is a focal point of energy and I call it a fire circle, because that's more of a tribal way of looking at life. And you take a company and you take the employees and you put them in circles of. Of care, so to speak, so they can actually say, here's what I'm here's what I'm doing, here's what's stressing me out. Here's the things I'm going through in life. And, you know, they say, don't mix your business and your personal life.

Ari [00:38:08] But when you're at work eight to 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day, your life is your business, your personal and your business are the same.

Ari [00:38:18] And so this is a way that we can kind of come back to that tribal. Kind of community where we have the support system of our fellow employees who probably are experiencing a lot of the same things that they're not talking about. And, you know, the biggest cost to any company is what's called presenteeism, which is the stress that causes somebody to be at work and not be productive at all. They're basically absent even though they're physically there. And that's caused a hundred percent by stress and lack of focus due to other focused meaning your issues, your problems. And so it behooves a company tremendously financially to take the opportunities. To shift their perspective from hard costs, right? And say, OK, we're going to take a day, maybe once a quarter, maybe twice a quarter to really get our employees on the same page with each other. So we now know what we're struggling with and we can be of support. What are some of the ways that you have worked with companies to. Take care of their stress responses and their, you know. There, their employee health.

Kyle [00:39:52] I mean, I think that's, you know, what you've talked about, there's such a great idea. And it's interesting, going back to what you said before, you were saying that about culture.

Kyle [00:40:01] I think that's that's all that's the kind of a starting point. It's a really interesting thing within the organizational world when you're looking at well-being, I find, because there are those organizations that recognize that. Well, yeah. If we look after our employees, they they'll be productive. They'll be happy. They can stick with us. They can build careers here and that. That's brilliant. Sounds like the culture that Top-Down culture is in place where at the top that they're buying into that that notion that well-being and productivity and engagement are all linked. Mean because you give those organizations where they can.

Kyle [00:40:40] Well, yeah. People seem to be stressed. So let's just try to do something. Well, let's even tick a box. So let's get it going to run a workshop and to just try to kind of, you know, give people some tools that they can deal with their stress. So the first thing is always trying to try to split enlighten organizations. That's okay. We can do so much with with with your staff and what.

Kyle [00:41:08] Well, I'm always looking to do is is empower people to understand again. Talk about emotion. Talk about stress. Talk about what they can do. But critically, unless we're looking at how to adapt that cultural piece, then it's it's not going to work. Well, also, I think the other thing is that it's it's really interesting what you you kind of talk about, because I've been in the back that example that that kind of firepit example is that, you know, I've had been through a few organizations where we, you know, they've brought me in because they want they fit well. We got people off on stress. We run a workshop on stress. So let's get a guy and get him to run. We can teach people about stress and what, because at the end of the day, they may have bought an off the shelf come a stress workshop and I'll go in and I'll try to tease out. We'll put it. What does this mean? You know, what actually is going on? What is stress mean to this organization? How people affected. And it's not uncommon for it to be things like, oh, actually, we used to run meetings. We had to have this big team meeting like once a month. But we saw stop doing that now. So because people are on the road a lot. People kind of have people talking to each other as much. And Bob in this team doesn't know what Dave is doing or Sally is doing and therefore generally and that it can be while you may be right, because we thought that meeting was a just time-Consuming pulling people in off the road. It actually was hugely beneficial because even though it's kind of work related, it did give people that opportunity to talk about, well, everything that was going on for them.

Kyle [00:42:48] So it's very much the same thing, I suppose. It's because we need to be connected. We need to be talking. And I think as well, the other point you made is that one of things I've noticed go back 25 years. I think when I started my career within organizations, there was much more of a division between, well, this is work life and this is home life. We work. We talk about work. We talk about your skills. We talk about your training. If there's anything about outside, we're not we're not interested. And for years, I was bleating on about what a person as a person. So if somebody got shit going on, then negative, they're going to bring that, too, to work. You know, it's gonna be affecting the work. It could even be something very simple. You know, you could have people that maybe they don't realize that how important sleep is and they're on their X box till 2:00 a.m. every morning and then they're getting up at six, two to two to work. And if they're working on a job that is required that meet, that may impact the lives of others. Maybe they're working on a on on a rail network, on a road, or maybe they just in general to be it could be everywhere. And if they're doing something which which is impactful and they're there, therefore their performance is affected by what they you know, the amount of sleep they're getting home, simply informing them of that is useful. But we got to know what they're doing at home.

Kyle [00:44:07] First, we've got to know that, well, this is person is a person that got a home life which will be affecting. However simple the solution may be, this is a home life mess. You know, that's going to affect them. So I think that it's really important that people because managers talk about this now as well. They say, I find that I'm managing now and I'm almost going to be a friend because what you swish, especially if I've got an older manager and he'll say, well, 30 years ago I would just be you know, you tell people to get on with it. And you you assess whether they've got the skills or the training needed. But now he said that, you know, they'll say, well, I've taught you, but I took it about much more than just the skills. And I think that's I think so that, you know. I think ruining up to that, but that's incredibly important.

Kyle [00:44:52] And it is finding some way of bringing in your kind of a fire pit, a side idea where people can get together, have an opportunity to share, to vent, if need be, to tool, to understand the process, to decompress. All of those things. And in the absence of that, yeah, that's just going to be a huge issue.

Ari [00:45:16] Yeah. You know, I used to be part of a group called the Spark Group, which was based on the old mark scripts of the late 60s and early 70s, is very, very hippie culture ish. But we had a process. We had a process called Withhold the Withhold. And you basically you're sitting in a circle and you would say something along the lines of, Kyle, I've been withholding something from you. And you'd either say something positive or something negative. Right. I've been withholding something from you. I really enjoyed our conversation the last time. And I so was looking forward to having you come back on. And I'm you know, I'm sorry that it's taken so long. That's an example of like a positive withhold, a negative withhold. You know, Kyle, your accent. I just want to I just want to tell you, I just it's like chock-a-block, you know, fingernails on a chalkboard or something. Whatever it is, it could be deeply personal or it could be, you know, some.

Ari [00:46:19] But the point is, is that you're sharing with somebody something that you wouldn't normally share with them, which then draws you into them and allows you to become closer with that person either way, because now it's out in the open and you get to, you know, express it and then it can dissipate because there's awareness that's been brought to it. And that kind of a thing to me is such an important, valuable aspect to distressing yourself. And any time I've gotten away from doing that and being that kind of honest, it's bit me in the butt, including things like, you know, divorce and so on. I've been such a self. Enabled the person most of my life that it's hard for me to ask for help when I need it. And that has caused much of the trauma that I've experienced in life is not the traumas, but not being able to ask or express. That the trauma after it's occurred has caused more trauma than the actual trauma has. So you deal a lot with debilitating symptoms and a lot of that becomes what is comes from stress and trauma. So what would you say to somebody who has been dealing with chronic chronic pain for a while, comes into your office and says, you know, I've got this chronic pain. It's it's, you know, made me have mental fog and mental fatigue. And so now I just don't know what to do. I'm really tired and I don't sleep and I'm tired and I'm I'm not sure what to do. What would be your initial response to somebody like that and advice?

Kyle [00:48:26] So once we've got over the the first bit of understanding what the diagnosis is. So say, for example, somebody was coming in and say, well, I've got fibromyalgia, so there's nothing structurally wrong. I've been diagnosed, you know, but I've have presenting symptoms of unfreedom for a period of time. And this is the diagnosis I've had. So I have a plethora of symptoms, muscle aches and pains, brain fog, fatigue, all the rest of that. So there will be some of those symptoms that will arise as a result of having symptoms. And we need to understand that the first thing I'm doing is going back to what we using what at the start, I'm trying to offer people a perspective on what might be causing symptoms. So I will be saying, OK, well, my approach is that this is what's causing fibromyalgia. It's caused by a body. And the brain is in a very simple way, is stuck in a state of stress. And that leads this this chain reaction that takes place, which results in symptoms. So we have to come back and look at the symptoms as useful.

Kyle [00:49:29] Messengers and people with fibromyalgia and and similar conditions will experience fluctuations in symptoms. So most people will experience a baseline level of symptoms that seem to be ever present and then symptoms that go up and come down over and above that. And I will say, well, what's happening is, is that when you notice an increase in symptoms, it may be that you've checked you try to tune out for it because they seem to be there all the time. But we need to tune back in because we're approaching it from the perspective of my body's trying to tell me something. When you notice that increase in symptoms, we want to translate that back into a message. And in many instances, it's something to do with emotion. What's happened to to our emotion? And then there's a behavioral implication of that. So it's either about emotion or I'm kind of if the way I phrase it, I'm deviating from the flow of my true self. The idea being that I'm you know, this this is part of us that just wants to be who we are to flow. And if that is inhibited, then problems will ensue. So that's how that's how I start. And it's, again, very often when people have symptoms of chronic either chronic fatigue or chronic pain, they are looking to give you some to manage my symptoms. And it's just that I need to manage my life. You know, my symptoms got worse. It's two 30 on a Thursday afternoon. I was kind of OK in the last half an hour. I notice my symptoms get worse. Oh, crap. That's going to mean X, Y, Z. I need to get home. I need to lie down. I need to. So I'm turning that around and say, OK, well, you met you might be that your body's not necessarily telling you to rest. It may be. So we need to have a look at what's going on both externally and in situ so we can understand what might the message be behind those symptoms. And as I say, this is why the diagnosis is important, because when when the symptoms are, you know, come into that category of medically and explained invisible, functional, those sorts of things that I am I am coming from it from the perspective of.

Kyle [00:51:39] All right. Well, it means that my old way to look at it saying, but we've got to stress back and the stress bucket is overflowing. And to say that stress bucket is, you know, what goes in there can be environmental, physical, emotional, even though most of what I'm looking at is the deeper, more complex emotional patterns. It's you know, I am factoring in that thing of, you know, well, if you've had a transatlantic flight and you've had eight beers on that flight, you know, there's a lot that's all I in your stress bucket, you know.

Kyle [00:52:12] So we have we have to factor that. So if you're more prone to symptoms, you know, if you get to the hotel the other side and your room's not ready. That might be the final little piece which triggers massive symptoms for you had you not at a transatlantic flight. And there's a place it could be that, you know, that little upsets of your. Not being read. If you're a local mother may have not triggered some symptoms and symptoms. So we're trying to trying to decipher it that way. But in many instances, it's a bigger, bigger emotional thing. But that's to say that's how I approach it is from there when people begin to say, oh, yeah, actually, because initially people say, oh, I get my symptoms all the time. Let's just have a deep look. And then they'll say, well, actually, yeah, those symptoms do increase. I do get times and they're worse. So then we begin to get there are patterns.

Kyle [00:53:02] So everybody will have their key triggers which relate to what I think a deeper life lesson issues, if you will, for each for each person. So most people will have between three and five kind of key triggers, which are emotional triggers for them that ultimately lead to symptoms. And then the the difficult work is then and this is dealing with that sometimes. It's a it is a simple acknowledgment of of emotion and of a behavioral change. Other times it can connect with a deep sense of self and how I see how I see myself in relation to the world. And that is that's a little bit harder, a little bit harder to deal with, you know. That makes sense.

Ari [00:53:44] Yeah. I mean. That's awesome. And.

Ari [00:53:52] So I and I. So how I relate to. Some of what you just said is I look at life on a physical, energetic, you know, emotional level, right. So if I'm watching a nervous system. In my mind, the nervous system has a trigger that is a stressor and the nervous system then lights up with electricity, start sending chemical signals that cause inflammation to certain areas, that inflammation is the beginning of disease. And if you look at the locations of the nervous system that lights up like somebody who has joint pain, you were talking about fibromyalgia. Joint pain is when you're in fight or flight. All of your blood flow goes into your extremities and out of your organs, thereby causing your organs to not work properly, especially if you're in chronic fight or flight. And it causes your muscles and your joints in your extremities to start having pain symptoms of, you know, over inflammation. You get joint pain, you get chronic fatigue, you get a eventually fibromyalgia and things like that because your nervous system is so inflamed. And your body is in fight or flight and the inflammation is spread out from there, away from your organs, thereby causing your body to not function properly and causing your muscles and joints to have pain. So that's how I look at what you just said. It's my way of of explaining in my own mind what you just said. And I hope that that explanation kind of helps some of the listeners as well if they're assessing. OK. So where is my body right now? What is what am I feeling? What is what is the trigger?

Ari [00:55:58] And you can see somebody driving down the road and all of a sudden, you know, somebody cuts them off. Is that a trigger for you? If it is, where do you feel it? And I think that this is one of the ways that people can begin to have that self-awareness that you keep talking about as it comes to stress symptom, you know, stress symptom, disease, basically. Is that about.

Kyle [00:56:27] You know, I go with that totally. I think that my my approach has been very much kind of at the coalface, if you will. So it's I've always been interested in trying to figure out what works for people. So there is a little bit of science in in in what I say. But I've always been much more focused on. All right. Well, this is your experience. I'm you know, I've got this simple scientific perspective. What what I need, what I focus all of my attention on is how we can how can we make something practical out of it that you can do something with that is going to help you get to where you need to be. Because obviously there's this you know, this huge debate about exactly what, you know, when you've got people with chronic fatigue and MIF fibromyalgia to what exactly was going on was the cause and all the rest of it. And you can get you know, you can get down a rabbit hole, get lost in all of that. And this is our my my focus has always been trying to get people on into a process that seems seems to work. But, you know, I totally go with everything that you just said that kind of also makes sense to me. I suppose I'm looking at it from, you know, which again is it's theory, but my theory is, well, it's almost a little bit like, you know, if that nervous system is just constantly ramped up. So rather, you know, if it's if on a scale of one to ten, it's normally rests around a three. So it's like it's on a Saturday. So it's already seems like you've already got your foot on the gas pedal. So it doesn't take much to spark something. And yeah, so I'm looking for that emotional piece with more and more, probably more often than not. But there's so much that I don't understand in terms of the intricacies of kind of what's going on at a cellular level within the party.

Kyle [00:58:32] But that's that just hasn't been my focus, really.

Ari [00:58:38] Thank you so much for listening to part one of this interview. Stay tuned for the next episode when we resume this conversation right from where we left off.

Ari [00:58:51] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, createanewtomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out.

Ari [00:59:15] And look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Dominique Arnold an American record holder, a world champion, an Olympic champion. A known coach. 

If you are aiming for success to be bigger and stronger. And have the idea of wanting to be the next Shaquille O'Neal's or a superstar in your own ways. Dominique Arnold is able to help people get stronger, better, and more confident in what they do, it doesn't matter what sport he's coaching, as long as you have that attitude. 

Learn some basic from the champion on how to be a champion in your own ways. 

Episode Highlights

Ari [00:06:33] And, you know, you would say things like, I want to have Bruce Lee strength like you had and so here's my question. What is the problem with the system that we have that an athlete like you who's getting who's got an entourage, who's got coaches and trainers and people and therapists had to go outside of that system in order to come to specialists like myself?

Dominique [00:07:03] Absolutely. Easy one to answer, because if you look at just any system in general, baseball, football or basketball. You nowadays see, back then, it was 2007. Think about YouTube was fairly new. Maybe you think two years old. And everyone kind of stayed in their. Their position, if you're a doctor, your dentist, you know, if you're a surgeon. No one really went outside the realms of of what they did. You know, all coaches, they didn't. They didn't expand outside of just training. Nowadays, you have coaches and they have an idea of how to give a little bit of rehab. Not completely. But for the most part, coaches have a number of athletes. They have to tend to. And so they I guess without. Kind of assuming that this is all Amadeu for today day anyway, these coaches, athletes, there's not a lot of.

Dominique [00:10:50] I was flexible anyway, but that Bruce Lee script statement came from the fact that. One, I love Bruce Lee he was flexible, but when that guy was stretching me, I can feel where I was weak. And so now you still put me in his position. But now we're adding strength to it. It makes a huge difference. He was different.

Ari [00:11:13] Absolutely. Got to create strength where there's weakness. You know that old saying a chain is only as strong as the weak link. Right. Same thing with with a person's body. So in effect, mindset. Right. So if there's a weak link in the mindset of an athlete, how how is that affected? Or even of the coach or trainer?

Ari [00:15:22] But they're trying to build their health. They're trying to do certain things to help them become an 80 year old who's still standing up straight. Right. Right. Yeah.

Ari [00:15:33] What kind of things would you recommend for being able to get into a zone, even if it's not the Zone. Right. And zone that will help them to be more active of prevention rather than just emergency.

Dominique [00:15:53] It's as you say that because prior to Covid, you know, going to the gym.

Dominique [00:15:59] And she and his older people on ellipticals, in a pool, you know, low impact type exercise, but part of being in that gym. I thought it had to be there.

Ari [00:23:19] So how how do we build that integration? Because I think that sports is probably the closest thing that we have to integration of metal. All right. We integrate a whole care, the surgeries, the the emergences with the prevention and the nutrition and other kinds of optimization and stuff like how do we move that into from just sports into the rest of the medical system?

Dominique [00:23:48] I think when I say we need more of it in sports, because before you can move some sports, I learned people like you, I ask questions. High level athletes, mostly time.

Dominique [00:29:25] I was going to be stronger than before, because, you know, what you think about it is. I don't know if it would, because I did mentioned being strong is Bruce Lee and in a wide range of movement. And maybe you really focus in on that. But he was he was a prescription and you filled it, you know, and. Yeah. But you said I would never get hurt. And I didn't in that area I was already in.

Ari [00:29:52] Exactly. And the only other thing I said to you is not only are you going to be as good as you were, you're going to be better than you ever thought you could be because you won't have to worry. You won't have in the back. You're your the set of. Having this be something that's going to happen again and again and again,.

Ari [00:33:10] But I remember that was a better for I can boost to your.

Dominique [00:33:15] I can, I can remember I guess because I remember.

Dominique [00:33:19] I didn't run that much that year because of my my groin. Like I said, I met you late, man. I know.

Ari [00:33:27] So then there's the other question is how do we get people to work with somebody like me before they get injured so that I'm not fixing? Oh, I'm just creating more performance writer or people that that I've the people that are in my field, you know, because we always get the people who are at that point where it's like they've gone to fifteen other people and they haven't gotten the help that they want. They haven't gotten the results that they wanted. And I'm a little guy.

Ari [00:34:02] So how do we get you, you guys to to come like you're a coach now how do you get your athletes to go to somebody like me so they don't get injured and they don't have to worry about those?

Dominique [00:45:09] But they still hard to find in faster ways of doing things, sort of the concern of really making sure that that patient doesn't come back. It's not there. You know, we're talking chiropractors and, you know, they get put in this kind of bad bubble. Because, you know, I mentioned years ago. One of my buddies was talking about he might lose his license because he tried to take away the field of car practice.

Ari [00:53:10] You know, the aren't the only exception to that, I think, is Shaquille O'Neal and his free throws. Right.

Dominique [00:53:16] But, you know, I'll know if you saw the one on one you would call man if he was out a reason why he was so late.

Resources and Links

• https://CreateANewTomorrow.com
• https://www.facebook.com/arigronich

Full Transcription

Ari&Dominique.mp3

Ari [00:00:01] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down.

Ari [00:00:50] I'm Ari Gronich and this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:00] Welcome to another episode of Creative Do Tomorrow. We're here with Dominique Arnold, one of my close friends, ex clients, patients, and an amazing world class Olympic athlete. This guy is the oldest man in history to break twelve point nine seconds in a 110 meter hurdle or twelve point nine one, was it? I think, you know, one of the things he doesn't talk about enough is breaking the world record. He talks about owning the broken record, but not in the world. Dominique, I'm going to let you kind of tell a little bit about your history, who you are, why you are this amazing athlete and now coach two other amazing athletes. So take it away.

Dominique [00:01:46] Thank you for having me, first of all. It's been a long time since I of lose that nice little face in your face. Let's you quickly.

Dominique [00:01:58] I'm going say this. The reason why I talk about breaking the world record is simply because. Which has never happened before in the Sprint race. I got second place, but yet I still broke the world record. And my agent had a hit that day because technically I broke the world record, but I got second. So. And but essentially into breaking the American record that stood for since to eighty 88 or something like that. And that's why I don't mention it, because I think a lot of it has to do with modesty. You know, you know, for a person to say why I broke the world record. I mean, look, you name there.

Dominique [00:02:38] It doesn't say that, but I kind of did do it.

Ari [00:02:42] So how far behind were you? It wasn't even I think. Oh, tenters.

Dominique [00:02:48] It was two hundreds of a second. Two hundred. Two hundred of a second. Right. So we actually was tied off the last hurdle. We'd just run like a goof ball up the last hurdle. So. My technique cost me.

Dominique [00:03:03] My running technique cost me but you know, obviously, that was 2006. I have moved on and start coaching, was over in Saudi for about four years and I'm coaching kids over there to pretty much do the same thing. I'd be a reach those high levels of of achievement on the track and off the track because I did a lot of of just one or one intervening because. As new athletes, especially in other country, other countries, see the U.S. as the pinnacle of athletic achievement. And a lot of times it gets overlooked when it comes to what it is we have to go to. We in United States have one of the only systems where we have college and within a college system, you have sports, you know, you go anywhere else. They don't have that us. We have a lot of clubs, systems. So there's a mentality that growing up the United States with sports that we have from a very early age that has to be implemented, which could could be implemented when it comes to coaching in other countries.

Ari [00:04:16] So tell me something that is kind of like the favorite memory, your favorite competing memory ever.

Dominique [00:04:24] Oh, wow.

Dominique [00:04:26] I would like to say it was a record race, but it was actually two weeks after that, because when I ran that record, I actually twisted my ankle trying to dove at the finish line.

Dominique [00:04:39] And I didn't I wasn't able to run again.

Dominique [00:04:41] And two, until this small meet and greet and I did not know if I was going to run and hide in the meet promotor was just a great dad, Michael. And he even utilized his resources to help me at least think about having an opportunity to run again. That's the first time I did the underwater ultrasound. You know, I actually call in the race itself. I still was skeptical. Literally five minutes up and two lined up and just didn't know. And I went out there and literally job staff at this time of the year. And to me became a because to me promotor was so thankful in the ladies. And I was kind of shocked to myself. I'm so thankful that I did it that it meant a lot to me to see that typically you don't see a lot of guys in these positions show appreciation for an athlete, especially if he was injured and he had to push through just to make sure the people who came to see you actually saw you are definitely that's one of the moments that I always think about and hold on to, because it was one of those things where you go, OK, Mitchell Sports, you had a lot to do with it, cause I got like I just mentioned, when it comes to being United States and going through our system, it makes you tough.

Dominique [00:06:02] It's a different type of toughness, you know, not to take anything away from anybody else, but you definitely have to stay mentally prepared for anything done.

Ari [00:06:10] Yeah, that is that is true. You know, you came to me long ago right after a pretty major injury. And we did some some work that was pretty powerful.

Ari [00:06:24] You've always called me the torture chamber.

Ari [00:06:27] You affectionately I.

Dominique [00:06:30] Yeah, yeah. It's my. Wow.

Ari [00:06:33] And, you know, you would say things like, I want to have Bruce Lee strength like you had and so here's my question. What is the problem with the system that we have that an athlete like you who's getting who's got an entourage, who's got coaches and trainers and people and therapists had to go outside of that system in order to come to specialists like myself?

Dominique [00:07:03] Absolutely. Easy one to answer, because if you look at just any system in general, baseball, football or basketball. You nowadays see, back then, it was 2007. Think about YouTube was fairly new. Maybe you think two years old. And everyone kind of stayed in their. Their position, if you're a doctor, your dentist, you know, if you're a surgeon. No one really went outside the realms of of what they did. You know, all coaches, they didn't. They didn't expand outside of just training. Nowadays, you have coaches and they have an idea of how to give a little bit of rehab. Not completely. But for the most part, coaches have a number of athletes. They have to tend to. And so they I guess without. Kind of assuming that this is all Amadeu for today day anyway, these coaches, athletes, there's not a lot of.

Dominique [00:08:05] Extra effort put towards trying to find out how to really keep Athens together so they might have a phone number. Go see this guy, someone. Most of them don't have a phone number of of a physician can go see it, kind of put their athlete back together again.

Dominique [00:08:21] And at the professional level, most of them don't care because if it's cycling, you know, you have one athlete coming in and other one go out and as long as they still getting a paycheck, they really don't care, you know? And that's the downside to it. I was. I don't know. I can't remember how I met you. You know, I'll never get through. I know somebody. Those gym were, you know, because I would talk to those bodybuilders. I've no, I'm thinking I know someone they know somebody who knows somebody who knows them.

Ari [00:08:48] Yeah, I know. How how we met. It was.

Dominique [00:08:51] How remind me please.

Ari [00:08:53] Venice Beach Gold's Gym. Giggles You and Charlie Cone, who had been a bodybuilder and he the guy good grades and therapist. No ball dude member.

Dominique [00:09:06] Very little dude.

Ari [00:09:09] Little guy.

Dominique [00:09:10] Do you like stretch stretching all your stretches. You try to rip your body apart. I mean, you look great. Yeah. Yeah. Overlent.

Ari [00:09:19] Ed, I have somebody for you. You said I don't know about this guy. Cause, you know, at the time I was, what, 30, 40 pounds as I was where you don't like. Yeah. As a big. Oh, yeah. And so I basically I said to you, you want me to show you where you're weak? And I showed you a little bit of a martial arts hold. And then I had.

Ari [00:09:46] You tried it yet I couldn't get out, then get out of it. And then I had to you put me in the hold. And. Yeah. And I got right.

Dominique [00:09:55] You did get a little crazy thing.

Ari [00:09:57] Oh, see, I agree with that.

Dominique [00:10:02] I also remember because I would tell the story often when you say you fell from your motorcycle because your ankles, could you always show how flexible and strong your ankles were and how you say, I will never twist my ankle again because of the things.

Dominique [00:10:16] Those you'd have to have a somewhat insane mind in order to think about certain things to do to make sure that, OK, my shoulder is going to be strong, my wrist. You got your wrist was strong. You know, your finger. I mean, your finger nails were black belts. I don't know if they ever really I mean, I got a little guy because he lived from overland across the street from the supplement starts to go to all these apartments. And I would go there. Yeah, he was stretched to.

Dominique [00:10:50] I was flexible anyway, but that Bruce Lee script statement came from the fact that. One, I love Bruce Lee he was flexible, but when that guy was stretching me, I can feel where I was weak. And so now you still put me in his position. But now we're adding strength to it. It makes a huge difference. He was different.

Ari [00:11:13] Absolutely. Got to create strength where there's weakness. You know that old saying a chain is only as strong as the weak link. Right. Same thing with with a person's body. So in effect, mindset. Right. So if there's a weak link in the mindset of an athlete, how how is that affected? Or even of the coach or trainer?

Dominique [00:11:40] Well, once again, as a team for a process, because if you have you have a lot of seeing, a lot of talented World-Class athletes and even where there's basketball, football, where have you track and just mentally just weak, you know, and just gifted and talented.

Dominique [00:11:58] They're gifted, but mentally just not there. So now with the coach from translation from coast to athlete, there has to be some type of their own little dictionary, like you say, because there's certain words that will trigger an athlete to make them kind of focus in on that talent that they're not fully using. But a lot of times you you you have to be patient to get that, because a lot of times coaches, they can't reach the athlete that way.

Dominique [00:12:27] You know, they have the same pattern if they're used to using with certain athletes and you had one or two comes in and there you just they just can't get a message across in order to tap into, you know, their full potential. So, I mean, it's a it's a you have to have patience. Was it? It's a tricky thing to encounter.

Ari [00:12:46] Tell me something about your life now as a coach and how you try to instill a sense of ability into some of your athletes who have talent but may not have that mindset.

Dominique [00:13:03] Oh, yeah. You know, I'm a I'm high energy, so and, you know, my sense of humor. I try to merge the two together because as an athlete, you know, I had when I was when I had three coaches outside of college, I was exposed to the athlete and they all had different training styles.

Dominique [00:13:27] One of my coaches, he he's a little more serious as a because he was competitive as well. And so he felt that I should be the same way. I'm not that way. I did not turn it on as soon as, you know, we lined up at the starting line.

Dominique [00:13:41] But in the meantime. Hey, guy. Hey, man. And so this is him watching. He's making my focus. You know, so you still have to allow an athlete to kind of be themselves in order to get the best out of Bill.

Dominique [00:13:55] So I look at that. That's the first thing I look at. We're tough for us now. Do they have and does their personality go too far outside the lines of focus where if I start to close down and do certain things, that that will be the. Their Achilles heel, so to speak. You know, you can have a good personality, but we still have to maintain the focus to focus on what we're doing. And otherwise, if you let it get too far outside the realms of of what we're, you know, what we're trying to accomplish, then you lose the athlete that way. And then a lot of time internally, I've never had that happen, but I've seen it happen and I've heard the reasons why. So just in that as well, when you started to sit down with other athletes and have stories, hey, how's your coach? How's he trained you? Was type of conversations you guys have. You know, I take all that in so I can have, like, a stew, so to speak, of information when it comes to receiving a new athlete who might be shy, who may be extrovert over it, would have and do it that way, because if not, you can't put everybody in the same bucket. You know, you're not going to get the same results.

Dominique [00:15:08] And we know that.

Ari [00:15:09] We're definitely not aware as fits. All right. You know. So in life in general, for people who are not competitive athletes.

Ari [00:15:22] But they're trying to build their health. They're trying to do certain things to help them become an 80 year old who's still standing up straight. Right. Right. Yeah.

Ari [00:15:33] What kind of things would you recommend for being able to get into a zone, even if it's not the Zone. Right. And zone that will help them to be more active of prevention rather than just emergency.

Dominique [00:15:53] It's as you say that because prior to Covid, you know, going to the gym.

Dominique [00:15:59] And she and his older people on ellipticals, in a pool, you know, low impact type exercise, but part of being in that gym. I thought it had to be there.

Dominique [00:16:14] Some people don't want to go to jail. We don't want to be seen. They may label themselves out of shape. I want you to see me like this. They think I want to go to gym looking like, you know, the Rock Johnson or something. So which is not going to happen. But.

Dominique [00:16:31] It is more. You've got to get your hands on people like that. You've got to be able to talk to folks like that and just to convince them that, hey, you know what? Just start slow. I've seen these videos out there that are kind of focused for older people or people who were just wanting to get into health and fitness. And they say some good things. But you have to realize everyone's not start from the same position. I've seen stories of women who just started lifting weights at 60 and their ripped at 70 years old.

Dominique [00:17:07] What was what happened to first 50, 60 years of life?

Dominique [00:17:10] You know, but you definitely have to have a level of of a mental fall or two.

Dominique [00:17:17] It's not always painful. You know, people think is gonna be painful, is not it? Just movement, you know, just getting started. And it's I know it seems simple, but it really is just that. Let me get started. Let me just go to a pool would let me walk around the block with my friends or or even buy themselves some headphones and listen to their favorite songs. Because that activity because the times when I get out of shape, I think about if I'm that older person and what is necessary for me to get back into shape because I do have a background in sports. I can always kind of go to that that log base of of of of pushing towards through or through the pain. You know, so it's not as hard for me to really push through something that's, you know, uncomfortable physically. But for the most part, they just have to get started. Once you get started, if I.

Dominique [00:18:10] Oh, I did this for the first week. Now I think I can add something else, whereas you have the attitude of certain people, like they have to dove into it right away. Big OCD, personal trainers, they kill them in a jam by the sword. It can't recover for the next day for the workout. And then they lose, you know, lose hope. You know, I can't do this if this is what it takes to get in shape.

Dominique [00:18:34] I can't do it. And it's not what it takes. It's just gonna be it's a gradual process.

Ari [00:18:39] Right. So societally, a place like, say, China has an evening. Community and country wide workouts, right? Yeah. We're obviously not going to ever do that. But as corporations or as, you know, as communities and as society in general. And on this whole situation going on, I don't want to talk too much about Covid or write that, but this whole situation going on has really highlighted the need for building an immune system and creating a healthy calm. It's funny because when when the whole lockdown started, you go to the grocery store and all of the bread aisles are gone, the candy are gone and the alcohol aisles are gone. But all the crap, none of the things that actually help those in system and keep you healthy. So how do we as a society shift our system of education, shift our system so that it focuses on being a healthy society versus emergency sick society?

Dominique [00:19:53] Well, I think we will. We're slowly, gradually shifting towards that, because, as you mentioned, when it started, the lockdown started. I actually started seeing more people walking around and in in the neighborhood than I've ever seen before. So just in itself, because we scare was immune system scare. You know, I've got to I've got to boost my immune system or do some type of exercise to stay stronger to fend off this thing. So I think this was a wake up call for all of us. And of course, like you mentioned, it was kind of a surprise to me to see a whole aisle full of vitamin C just sitting there while Flammini the, you know, great foods.

Dominique [00:20:38] You know, just sitting there where all the stuff that really diminishes our immune system was was absorbed.

Dominique [00:20:44] So but I think we are kind of moving slowly, slowly into that that way of of at least thinking about health and in a good way. Yeah. Being in China. You mentioned something that I've witnessed five in the morning in during Itchy and a beautiful one to watch because two sides of it, one, you see a lot of people come together for one common cause. And two, it's health. You know, if you watch and people care about the Hill, like I love seeing people run Lowson, people ride bikes, you know, people in the gym.

Dominique [00:21:20] I got, like, seeing it, like, was cool, you know, not that you got. Oh, you just recited it. Just that. I like seeing people work out, taking care of their bodies, you know, and but we are, I think.

Dominique [00:21:33] With with Youtube now we have this Zoom, you see a lot of zoom worked out. You have people trying to produce his community, these Zoom communities where we are putting ourselves in a better situation to take care of ourselves and to have people do it with us. So it's happening. But of course, at a small rate, I think if. If. We have more trainers with more zoom in, because you can you can touch more people zoom. You know, and like you can do. You have all you seem to get his own basketball guy. I mean, people in the stands. Now, baseball's also a force. So they are able to watch the game so you can have something like that in place. I think you have that with. Depending how much time people have making time to listen to someone give a nutritional background. OK. We just worked out today, so now we're going to talk about what you're gonna do afterwards or or before work out pre and post worked out nutritional information, you know. But it's time, you know, in a lot of people, we still feel like we don't have a lot of time on our hands. So we try to fit in what we can in a moment.

Dominique [00:22:46] Well, let me do this fast workout, you know, and then you forget about eating healthy, you know, but they all work together, so we're moving that direction.

Dominique [00:22:57] I just think that it still needs to be some type of format where it does help people more often. I know my little son over would be looking at.

Dominique [00:23:08] But yeah. But I think I guess a format. Have you seen my son.

Ari [00:23:12] I have not seen your son other than in pictures.

Dominique [00:23:16] Yes, that's that's what I, that's what I think.

Ari [00:23:19] So how how do we build that integration? Because I think that sports is probably the closest thing that we have to integration of metal. All right. We integrate a whole care, the surgeries, the the emergences with the prevention and the nutrition and other kinds of optimization and stuff like how do we move that into from just sports into the rest of the medical system?

Dominique [00:23:48] I think when I say we need more of it in sports, because before you can move some sports, I learned people like you, I ask questions. High level athletes, mostly time.

Dominique [00:24:03] Depending on how much money they make? They don't ask a lot of questions. So we could be funneled athletes themselves could be fined for that for that next step. But if they don't know anything, they can't be a funnel. You know, you have guys stepping out a bit, basketball players creating these academies. But within the academy, is that the only teaching one thing you have? Right. Yeah. You know, you have doctor friends. Well, as I do and when I go to medical school, they tell you we only spend maybe a semester on nutrition, but then we go to them for for help.

Dominique [00:24:39] For help. And you can give a person. You can have a certain like I remember when I had hernia surgery. I found out two years later through a nutritionist, a man who had three surgeries and win by a year ago. What did you take, vitamin C? Maybe out towards ten thousand milligrams. And for what? You know, the doctor didn't the doctor didn't say that. So how should I know? So it forces you to be in it to think differently about your health, especially if you're an athlete. You have to maintain this high level performance. But if you just have enough money to pay for the help and assistance that you're getting, you're not going to ask a lot of questions because you're concerned about getting back on the field of play. So in order to move the things from sports to, they say our into our society in to have this huge explosion of health and health recognition in and operate within those parameters. We have to first have. Had it happening for us, you know, because unless you have a lot of trainers in, there's not a lot of people going in to services with trainers nowadays. I've talked to one of my friends and he was saying how he wishes that it was more athletes who care about their bodies like I do. We sit there, talk about show Canter's and intercostals and, you know, a most average. Don't talk about those things. I see. But I care to know. And and once we start to get athletes to care and be educated about their own bodies, you know, have because they're the face of. That sport or, oh, that that area that they're in, Kobe Bryant used to live in Orange County. So he was the face of Orange County will as well as L.A..

Dominique [00:26:29] So if he were to be well educated and I bring it up because, you know, his birthday just passed and signed up to go in in in nutrition, then he could have added to the Mambo Academy. You know, here's a thing. I mean, maybe they have I don't know. I don't want to say that they do this, but I just knew was basketball so that you can add interesting program or classroom before. After. This is what we do, guys. And so, again, those athletes see that their structure and then they take it to, you know, to their high school or to their college. Then, you know, from there it expands. But there has to be someone to care about the nutritional side of things because just being.

Dominique [00:27:13] You know, a great athlete. That's where it starts and stops right there.

Ari [00:27:18] Good questioning, questioning, questioning, questioning, learning how to be a questioning culture is what I'm hearing you say. And we we definitely have culture that that's fairly acquiescent. Right. We we ask to what we're told and don't question it. And this is kind of goes on with the media. It goes on with with with all the definitely been going on lately is a lot of acquiescence version, a lot of questioning. You know, I had the opportunity a while ago to work with with Kobe, as you know. And he was, what, 10 minutes from from my house, the training center, and Gary V, the trainer that obd. Yeah, I'm going to Gary V.T.. Sorry, Gary Vee's in my mind, but V.T.. I'm going to call his butt out live. And he was recorded as saying on on an interview that he did with them. Was it L.A. Times magazine that saying, oh, he's out. This was right after Kobe's injury. He said, Achilles, Kobe's never going to. Kobe's never going to be as good as he was. He's going to be 70, 80 percent maybe of what he was. Right. And he's just going to have to live with it. And we're used to this happening. It happens all the time. Now, this is after the guy has been there. Twenty five plus years. So I talk and I, I get a call with Mitch Kubicek and I'm like, you do realize that this is your top trainer for 20 plus years. It's never going to be as good as he was. Yeah, that is completely false. And so, you know, does that happen all the time in all of us, on or on?

Ari [00:29:15] You're never as good. What did I tell you after your injury? Do you remember.

Dominique [00:29:21] My Achilles growing? Which one?

Dominique [00:29:25] I was going to be stronger than before, because, you know, what you think about it is. I don't know if it would, because I did mentioned being strong is Bruce Lee and in a wide range of movement. And maybe you really focus in on that. But he was he was a prescription and you filled it, you know, and. Yeah. But you said I would never get hurt. And I didn't in that area I was already in.

Ari [00:29:52] Exactly. And the only other thing I said to you is not only are you going to be as good as you were, you're going to be better than you ever thought you could be because you won't have to worry. You won't have in the back. You're your the set of. Having this be something that's going to happen again and again and again,.

Dominique [00:30:15] Know we talked a lot about that.

Dominique [00:30:17] And just recently I was talking to one of my friends because he just saw my incidentally race and he hadn't seen it before. And I and I had it been worst start anyone can have in a sprint race. And I came back and won. He said, what will what was going through your mind? You know, doing our race.

Dominique [00:30:34] I said, well, honestly, I wish I had a hamstring issue. I was getting through it, but I was always afraid to really blast off the blocks that I wouldn't train to the sprinter. You know, he asked me, what's your fastest time in one hundred meters? I said I'd never run a hundred meters. You said you never 100 meters, are you on track? I don't have one. 200. That was time and it was a hand high and it was in March. So it's not even close to track season. And I'm running like twenty one flat or something. Wait a minute. You mean 21 flat? Yes, they're the same meat. I ran 13 four. So we're talking about how does things equate. You know, as far as the sprints and hurdles and so on, so forth. I said but I never ran one hundred ever so. You know, people like to do use measurements, I. But the reason why. I didn't start is because I never got trained sprinter. I was never comfortable being close about the blocks, you know. Really pushing hard up the blocks to generate some forces. So no telling how much faster I could have run if I wasn't afraid to even as a professional I was still having issues and I ran a record. I had a sore killing in my groin, was bothering me, know. So I wasn't you know, of course, people don't always compete healthy most often, but I just always had issues. It's only two years. I can remember where I had zero injuries from start to finish. That was two thousand and two thousand five. You know, and well, to get back to town, the fire started off with a growing issue.

Dominique [00:32:03] So but I didn't have any problems those two years as track season became after I met you. Before I met you. Of course, I came out an issue, but a growing issue. I am actually growing hamstring attachment issue. And so but after that, I don't have any problems, any problems, you know, up in that area. My Achilles started acting up because it was just an old issue. And then we never really focused on that because that wasn't one of my problems.

Dominique [00:32:32] When I came to see that, I just didn't have a lot of confidence, you know, being exposed about the block to to right there.

Ari [00:32:39] Working on your on your Achilles a little bit. And you do.

Dominique [00:32:44] So my little massage and release. Yeah. I mean, do a lot of strengthening stuff on it.

Ari [00:32:48] And I remember adjusting your feet out. Yeah. And and I remember top that being I think a four tenths of a second.

Dominique [00:32:57] I was afraid that you guys would take it in a headlock and go. Oh, no, strong man. I like it.

Ari [00:33:10] But I remember that was a better for I can boost to your.

Dominique [00:33:15] I can, I can remember I guess because I remember.

Dominique [00:33:19] I didn't run that much that year because of my my groin. Like I said, I met you late, man. I know.

Ari [00:33:27] So then there's the other question is how do we get people to work with somebody like me before they get injured so that I'm not fixing? Oh, I'm just creating more performance writer or people that that I've the people that are in my field, you know, because we always get the people who are at that point where it's like they've gone to fifteen other people and they haven't gotten the help that they want. They haven't gotten the results that they wanted. And I'm a little guy.

Ari [00:34:02] So how do we get you, you guys to to come like you're a coach now how do you get your athletes to go to somebody like me so they don't get injured and they don't have to worry about those?

Dominique [00:34:14] Why? No one is knowing you. You know, once a coach or athlete knows someone, he trusted them because this is what I did when it came to, you know, I was told yes or even knew it, but. There came a time when because I had been. One of the reasons why I was kind of skeptical we get to the ankle adjustment is because it was done to me by another therapist in a training group and I was out for two and a half weeks. He actually strained a ligament in my foot. So I was out and drain in this. I was I was living in in Pennsylvania. So I'm out here just as trained specifically. And now my time has been wasted because this guy Davis manipulation the wrong way. Crat Strain. So I start to get to a point where if I had a conversation with you and I knew more about the body that you did, I wouldn't work with you. So so I will talk to you, ask questions, and you would know, OK. Trust is gone. Not so much so that because you knew about the body as much as you knew what to do with certain parts of the body you knew. Knowing, you know, knowing the anatomy is one thing. Knowing how to go about treating it is another. All right. I put that time in to make sure that.

Dominique [00:35:38] I would question a person a certain way to so I can feel comfortable in knowing that they're not going to mess me up. Lot of athletes, if they took the time to do so, then they'll be in the same position where they can, you know, pretty much doing a n d dot com. You know, you kind of filter things out. What's really necessary here? Who can I hire? Who can I not hire? And so with that being said. It's really. Word of mouth. It does. It does do its its part. Now one day, but not like big time advertised. And in it just. We have these high performance centers. They boast and brag about, you know, all the athletes, pretty much football players who train there.

Dominique [00:36:22] And so this is saying, look, we have but you're not doing thing any different than the guy down the street who has three guys in. They're actually getting better. You can take any young athlete and do well with them, but can you keep them healthy? See, that's the trick. So who do I go to to make sure I keep my athletes healthy? We got to know people. You know my phone. I don't know how many doctors in it. Phone numbers. Only a lot of doctor numbers, meaning nutritionist. It's only now two because you weren't passing years ago and there was only one guy left that I trust. Now, this is a tough time out there. Of course we know that. But who do I trust? You can only trust on one, depends how much time you spent with them. Oh, I know this guy, just chiropractor's.

Dominique [00:37:11] So good. His chiropractics. You've been there two times. You don't really have an idea of how good are they really, you know? So that's a difficult one. I mean, it really is. It comes down to word of mouth. And then once you get your hands on them and do what you do, give it all, get it. Meek didn't lie to us. You know, so now I'm validated. Right. Means I can't stand more people, you know. But ultimately, what it comes down to, unfortunately, because everybody is trying to do the same thing and they're saying that. But.

Ari [00:37:41] But, yeah, you know, it's an interesting thing. I always tell my my clients, my patients and the people I talk to in general, because, you know, I like to to talk and I tell them, you know, how often have you ever interviewed your trainer or doctor or interviewer chiropractor to make sure that they're going to be the person qualified for what you do or what you need? And and it's almost inevitable that it's a big honkin zero. They don't do that. Right. Or create a plan. I like to create plans. Plan of action. Here's the goal. Here's the time period. What are we going to do? When how are we going to measure the result? Make sure that we get. The end game to the result we want, and I don't really see that in industry there.

Dominique [00:38:39] I was going to bring that up, man. And when it came to you, because I was going to say, you can look on YouTube right now and I love going back to YouTube. When it comes down to the workout that we filmed, you filmed. I haven't seen it yet. And proud because like you said, this, this was catered to my issue. But you had to steal the workout in yourself. Anyone can do it any time. You know you can do it.

Dominique [00:39:09] And every once around, like a McQuire, it's kind of tight. Let me do that one little lean back. You have me on my my knees.

Dominique [00:39:17] And I had fully stand and go back and back and hold it back. And sometimes I do that because I remember how I felt afterwards. It hurt like nothing else. But as soon as I got up, I don't do it anymore. And that was the most amazing thing to me. I'm still in pain in the moment, but as soon as I stop, there's nothing. So there are things that, you know, and I when I tell you, I look I'm looking all the time.

Dominique [00:39:47] When you to somebody got this oh, you do this work out. Do you got work out. This helps to do something. But in it and it's a lot of things have been recycled. I haven't seen anybody do what you did to me. That's all I'm saying. Because like you mentioned, you took the time. You carried it to the issues that I had. And it worked for me.

Ari [00:40:07] Absolutely. But, you know, the thing that's cool is that those exercises took that 30 minutes that we filmed them are simply exercises on a table, you know, off the table. Right. Right. I would not let you do not until you got to where the table was easy. Did being on the will ever get easy? No. No. Right. You know, I mean, I talk to divis I'm talking to also on a podcast, somebody that you referred over to me. He he says to me constantly. I didn't think that I could sweat that on your table.

Dominique [00:41:00] Yeah. Yeah.

Ari [00:41:02] You know, you gotta come up with unique. Neatness, you know. Like, I'm unique.

Ari [00:41:09] I had Meek know, appear to be unique because every athlete is unique and every situation is how every injury is unique on you is not gonna be the same as a groin injury on a bicyclist.

Dominique [00:41:26] Right.

Ari [00:41:26] It's just not it's not going to be the same. It may be part of the same anatomy, but it will be a different angle on that spindle. That's that's like my my hope is that we can partially inspire other trainers, other therapists, other doctors to learn thing that they don't know, to be open and willing to learn something that they don't know, because even if they're never going to use that technique, at least they'll know who they can refer to.

Dominique [00:41:58] Absolutely.

Ari [00:41:59] But that athlete or what that person needs more of? Well, you know, I like to think that I'm an influencer in that realm of making and helping people who are in our field get better results and create, you know, an athlete for tomorrow. You know, my book and my podcast is Create a new tomorrow. Well, the whole point is what kind of results are we getting in our society, in our life, in our world? And are they optimized? Are they good results? Are the results that we're getting equivalent to the effort that we're putting out? Or are are they suboptimal? And if they're optimal, then we kind of have an obligation to reevaluate. And say, OK, what am I doing that is not optimal? Rather than have a philosophy. Right. So for a lot capitalism is good. But in reality, there is a new ones to that to that statement. So we got to how do we make capitalism have the results of creating this society that we want rather than just socialism, bad capitalism, good or bad? Yeah, good mask. His mask is good. Mask is bad. And Miller changes every month. Right. How do we get to where we can find what's optimal in our society and move people forward as an optimal society? And so that's all about mindset and questioning like you were saying, right?

Dominique [00:43:48] Yeah, it is an.

Dominique [00:43:51] You know, just as you're speaking out, I'm just thinking, going back to just base after example of this. We're talking about medical field doctors and so forth. And as aforementioned, you know, my buddy Sandy only took. A semester of just nutrition, you know, and how much information can you get in a semester of making they.

Dominique [00:44:15] They can try to implement things with the state, for example, as they go to medical school.

Dominique [00:44:23] But for the most part.

Dominique [00:44:26] When A is, it seems to me we all have to make a living. All right. But there has to be.

Dominique [00:44:38] When money becomes the end goal.

Dominique [00:44:42] The things that we're talking about kind of loses its importance.

Dominique [00:44:47] If you can get paying, you know, five hundred thousand dollars to put a Band-Aid on somebody, you don't find out how to stitch up that cut. Probably not. You know, I mean, finding fast ways to glue glue shattered a cut or decision. No more stitching, although they find reasons every once in a while.

Dominique [00:45:09] But they still hard to find in faster ways of doing things, sort of the concern of really making sure that that patient doesn't come back. It's not there. You know, we're talking chiropractors and, you know, they get put in this kind of bad bubble. Because, you know, I mentioned years ago. One of my buddies was talking about he might lose his license because he tried to take away the field of car practice.

Dominique [00:45:40] They don't think they can consider them as real doctors or medical doctors. And to me, is a lie because they actually care about not seeing people gain. That's one of the statements he will make. He said, you know, I love seeing you, but I don't want to see you again for this issue. You want to come visit me? You're healthy. Fine. But for the most part, this guy in a couple of hours that I've met, they have the same thought process. I don't want to have to see you again for this. And I understand last couple of reasons. Why am I. I'm private. I'm doing my job very well. So you've got to come back and and to. That means you still have this ongoing issue that I know is causing you. Unfortunately, I think money prevents them from me wanting to learn more. So they could be a full package, so to speak, because, you know, a chiropractor is not a medical doctor, medical doctor in a car, you or a nutritionist or a physical therapist. But if you get that one anomaly that you know, you've got to die all in one.

Dominique [00:46:37] Wow. Didn't like you mentioned. We mentioned before. OK. You have people like a person like you. You have people sent to you. You become this anomaly, you know, like dad, God knows everything. So go to hell.

Dominique [00:46:50] It's unfortunate, you know, we're like, you know, we start off talking about in China when we all come together and do CHY, and because it's a thing of health and longevity, we're United States.

Dominique [00:47:00] We're not going to get to that point. We're moving slowly into things like that where one is gonna carry more. But that can only go so far, especially the medical field. And that's the unfortunate part.

Ari [00:47:13] Yeah, absolutely. So why don't you tell people how you became like, what is it that's so special about Dominique? What's so special about you that you can break a world record that you even had the belief that it was possible that you could do that as a living?

Dominique [00:47:35] You know, it was a wow, you know, before. Always believing in increments like that. You know, you've got to ask that question is going to. It could be presumptuous. Where I knew as soon as I start running, I was gonna be this guy. He knows that's not how I work. I mean, there were times for some years I was homeless, sleeping in my car. So you have moments like that where you don't know. You sleep in your car. You don't know. You're gonna make it. You know me, your home gets towed and ordered closer in your home. I got out. There is nothing good is ever going to happen. Process it is interesting. Talk to my coach a month ago. The one who first coached me out of college. Who? No, no, no, no. His name was Jeff. Yeah. Yeah. Larry got a hold of me later. If you want to kill me now, we became best friends, but not. It was a gradual process because I just didn't know. Watching once again, becoming a student of the sport. Watching films constantly and looking at other people and being able to kind of match up OK, for two hurdles. I ran just as fast as that guy who has multiple gold medals and has records. I did it for two. That means I probably can do four four hurdles. That part of me is I can do it for ten because I did it one time. I mean, I. I know I can do it more often. So as I got better and better, my confidence began to grow. And. So it wasn't over. It wasn't like immediately I knew I just had fun throughout the process. Even when I was homeless, I still put on a happy face. You know, that's one of things that we talked about. I, I knew I was like, well, I am. So I still got to eat. You know, this is one of those things where when I look back on it like, wow, I was out that this in my car, I was homeless, I. I had to sleep in the dorms.

Dominique [00:49:39] You know, some of the athletes, because I didn't know how to get ready for work and I couldn't have a place to lay my head. That is the only place I can lay my head. So.

Dominique [00:49:49] Throughout that process, I still felt like I could do something, but it just not it's going gonna take some time. So I really, you know, honestly, I never lost hope. I never lost faith, man. And I think because of that, I never gave up. And I always thought I could. You know, I never thought I could. You know, in, you know, my coach at the time, he he made sure that even if there was a question, even though there wasn't ever a question, even if I had any doubts that. It wasn't going to affect you. You got your this you get, which kind of is part of the issues that I had as an athlete because, you know, he training he trained like a football player in a gym.

Dominique [00:50:31] So I was strong for my size. Oh, no. But guess what gastrin.

Ari [00:50:36] I remember. Had weight off of you.

Dominique [00:50:39] Yeah. Yeah. Because it was, it was it wasn't advantageous for me. You know who the strongest guy when I'm stiff. You know, what good is it? I see these guys, we were real pain and they're beating me out the blocks because, look, they're not holding as much.

Dominique [00:50:57] It's a more flexible nor durable probably. I don't know. But I know it. But the thing about it is, I've never I never lost hope.

Dominique [00:51:06] It was it was it was stressful, of course. But at the same time, it was it always remains fun. So I always felt like I had a chance. Always.

Dominique [00:51:16] That's awesome. What would you recommend for for a kid who's. Looking at life as a possible athlete, don't matter what sport, just add me, you know, they have the natural talents, they're good at sports, but they don't really know how to go about being that inside themselves.

Dominique [00:51:40] What I would say, though, the mindset is, don't think you know so much. Allow these athletes, especially nowadays, because peace is taken out of the schools. So there's a lot of club activity second place. So within a club, within the club, you're paying a coach to perform his duties. And a lot of athletes, they you know, they they grow within themselves.

Dominique [00:52:07] They start to have more confidence. They feel like they can accomplish more. So then when you go from a club system to a collegiate system or a high school system, have a coach, a designated coach, and you don't get that same attention. They they feel like, OK, well, this guy gets more attention. And then within within that, well, you don't know as much.

Dominique [00:52:30] So it's a big, big turn off. They don't listen anymore. I've never not listened to any coach who coaches. I always listen because I always knew there was something to learn. I wasn't look until I ran something phenomenal.

Dominique [00:52:47] I still have something to learn. If you're football player and you want to catch more touchdowns and Jerry Rice, well, you need to find out what Jerry Rice knew. How he did it. Randy Moss, how he did it, how Michael Jordan, did you hear any stories about his shot? A thousand shots before and after practice? They can never learn enough.

Dominique [00:53:08] You can never learn enough,.

Ari [00:53:10] You know, the aren't the only exception to that, I think, is Shaquille O'Neal and his free throws. Right.

Dominique [00:53:16] But, you know, I'll know if you saw the one on one you would call man if he was out a reason why he was so late.

Dominique [00:53:23] Well, he got late. He became lazy is because when Kobe came, he allowed this guy to score 40 points in a night. So I'm glad I can I can just use the basketball games to get myself in shape. There's one thing he'd be like. We're talking about this. Cross training. I think it's tremendous when it comes to athletes. Shaq had mentioned how he went. He started doing M.A training and that was the first year they won a championship. So once again, you got a guy, rookie year, top top guy out of college dominating the sport. Still had to go and find other means to make himself better. Once again, that attitude. I don't know enough. I'm not going to say that I do. Let me go and find something else is going to help me become even greater. So to Athens out there, you got to not think you know so much. Just be open, be an open book. Let somebody write some some chapters in your pages or 50 pages, and then you can go back to those pages and extract something that that may not work for you, but take it all in. There's something is going to work is something that won't work. But if you don't take any of it, then you wouldn't have learned the thing that you missed out on. You've missed me. I don't need any I'm not like my book. You write for me, you know.

Ari [00:54:45] I've worked with a number of those kind of athletes, too. But for very short period of time, because, you know, I don't tolerate it. You don't mean it sounds to me like just in life and athletes in general being somebody who checks their ego. Absolutely. Questions. Not to question as if. Why are you right? You know. But questions as I am willing to learn. Right. It's a different kind of being here. But, you know, checking that ego and saying, OK, I've got something to learn. I can expand who I am. Right. And then being open to hearing the good, the bad, the ugly. And saying, OK, what can I. And then being discerning, too. You've got to be honest. Who whose information are you going to listen to?

Ari [00:55:47] That that tells you you're never going to be as good as you were. Is it going to be who you know says you can be? And this is why what what is it that you're going to be listening to?

Ari [00:55:58] And, you know, this whole this whole podcast I'm doing and I'm an I'm a work in progress. I'm learning myself. Right. Is because I wrote this book called Create, a new Tomorrow, where the vision for a better world create a new tomorrow is is the podcast. And really my goal in life and and it's the same way in my business, in my life, is always to be at a level of results, getting good results, activating, you know, my vision for what I see in an athlete when I have somebody like you come in and I say, OK, this guy is willing to work, what can we do? Not all right. But not what necessarily is the thing we're fixing. But what what can we do? What can we accomplish?

Ari [00:56:53] And so I say that to it. If you're somebody who's in the BLM movement, if you're somebody who's in, you know, the child trafficking movement, if you're somebody who's in the metoo movement, if you're if you are somebody who's passionate about medicine, who's passionate about health, societal norms and changes, the thing that is going to propel your movement forward is, one, getting loud because as you said, somebody who doesn't know I exist ain't ever gonna find me.

Dominique [00:57:26] Right.

Ari [00:57:26] Right. And the next thing is ask a lot of questions and be willing to learn. And here and listen. And change and simply, you know, have your opinions and your philosophies changed.

Dominique [00:57:43] Right. Right. You know. Yeah. Because, you know, as you said multiple times, ask questions.

Dominique [00:57:50] In a lot of times, people, especially in our society, don't like to ask questions. Really want to assume that you should have the answers. I come to you as a trainer. I assume that you have all the answers for me. That's why you're seeing me. And then you have the next phase of asking questions where someone feels like if I ask the person questions, then maybe they think I doubt them. So then they have a no, I have a different energy towards me. So they are really willing to help me now. Do they have in the back of your mind what this person of interest. Much. Get to you. You know, so I know we're careful. A lot of stress in our society. My wife is in France. Right. And, you know, this is just a different way of speaking to people. Everything is very direct. It's not rules direct. We put so many different words in our vocabulary that we soften certain statements that we make because we're so conscientious of the other person, you know? But being cocky of a person, you know, you can. The information could get lost in translation. So if I ask you a question, let me not add too much to it. Let me just ask you straight out, because if I ask you a question, he has too many additives. Where are you really going with this? Do you not trust me? Hey, so, Ari. So, yeah, you do. Manipulation. You know. You're doubt he doesn't know what you do, manipulation, don't you? You know the way we communicate. And unfortunately, if we did ask more questions and people weren't so sensitive, then we'll get more out of it because of what society is that way. You know, we kind of miss out on a lot.

Ari [00:59:33] Ain't that the truth? So we're gonna finish up with three questions that I ask at the end of every single podcast and that I would like you to give our listeners. Three actionable steps that they can take right now, tomorrow. Today. To create a new tomorrow and activate their vision for a better world to.

Dominique [01:00:04] Create a new tomorrow.

Dominique [01:00:05] Three steps. For themselves and maybe possibly others, because it transmits first one is don't doubt. Don't doubt, doubt, it is the one thing that slows the process of moving forward.

Dominique [01:00:21] The next phase, if you don't doubt yourself, because now you're in you're in action, you're in movement wherever you move and towards get as much information as possible, whether it's running, eating, nutrition, glove, you know, whatever may be moving to that. But with the idea of of obtaining information.

Dominique [01:00:42] And then third is executed. You know, the last part executing with the idea that mistakes may be made because then the other three steps. Now they all fortified. Because if we don't do that, then when we don't execute well, we execute with. Being hesitant, then the process is null and void. Also, we have to execute the idea that it may be some mistakes made, but within that process, it's a still move. You're still moving towards your ultimate goal. And it's going to be accomplished. It will be accomplished.

Dominique [01:01:15] No doubt.

Ari [01:01:16] It's pretty awesome. I mean, I heard when you were talking as wisdom because wisdom is knowledge in practice, absolute knowledge and practice. So if you if you're not taking that wisdom and or that knowledge that you've been given by asking a lot of questions, then the wisdom gets lost. Because the words being taken and I did like that you added into their mistakes will be made because we learn so much from our mistakes that we can then add to our wisdom and move forward if we can. Those lessons and you know, when mistakes are made, what's the best thing to do? Go back to number one and ask a lot of is.

Dominique [01:02:06] That's right. That's right.

Dominique [01:02:08] Absolutely.

Ari [01:02:09] Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dominique, for being here today. I am so excited and glad that we could talk and reconnect. It's been a while since we've been in the same state, but it will connect again. And so, so glad to see your son and your family. Your life. So going so well. It just makes me feel, you know, like warm in the heart. And I appreciate it. So.

Dominique [01:02:44] Oh, I appreciate you, man. What I don't appreciate and I always say this is you killing me on a table. That's one. Secondly, you kill me a word with friends. I don't like that move. Beat me way too much at word with rage.

Dominique [01:03:00] Well, you know, we had to he beat me up on the table. You mean the words.

Ari [01:03:09] You were in Saudi Arabia?

Ari [01:03:10] I think at the time, the athletes and I had to give you a little bit of you know, I give.

Dominique [01:03:17] Pop pop.

Ari [01:03:19] But I think all the torture did. It only lasted the amount of time you on the table. And and, you know, it's funny in Indian ceremonies all kind of end with this and Indians, OK. They say that, you know. Yes. Sweat lodges and vision quests and sun dances. And they say that the ceremony is meant to be hard so that your life will be easy in comparison. Absolutely. And so maybe with you a little bit, I took that philosophy and and put it towards your training. But I feel like what we were able to accomplish by torturing your muscles and torch your tendons and joints, everything. Was that when you walked away? You felt, as you would say, like a teen age gym, do you know it's just powerful and strong? You know, like I'm young again.

Ari [01:04:19] And to me, is is the idea you. You put them through a little bit of pain and torture now so that they don't have to live with the pain in the future. And that's the same with going to school. It's the same with pretty much everything in life is you want your training to be hard so that the race will be easy. Absolutely. Don't want your best time to be in the race. You want your best time to have been done 20 times before the race happens.

Dominique [01:04:50] That's right.

Ari [01:04:51] You know, so that in the race, it's it's easy. I just. I've done that. I've done that before. You are doing it again. So, you know, at the end, that's for goes for life as well. So anyway, this is Ari Gronich with the Create a new Tomorrow podcast. And we have had a lot of fun here. Hopefully you've gotten a lot out of it, too. And we look forward to hearing about everything that you're learning and seeing you on the next podcast. I'll talk to you later. And thank you guys so much for listening.

Ari [01:05:24] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you.

Ari [01:05:31] If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference.

Ari [01:05:47] I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out. And look forward to seeing you. Take it. Leave. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Dr. Joe Esposito is a certified 5 board passer in chiropractic, orthopedics, pain management, double-board certified nutrition, and an award-winning author. 

For the past thirty-five years or so, He had one goal, and that goal was to help you get well and stay well.

If you are needing a push to get things going to stay well and get well then it is time. 

Tips and Tricks on how to stay well and get well with Dr. Joe Esposito. 

Episode Highlights

Joe [00:04:31] That's wheat, dairy and pepperoni and ended. It's all there. And I said, just tell me how you feel. And it's it's you have to eat anyway. Eat good food for two weeks. Any pepperoni pizza? Tell me how you feel if you feel great. I was wrong. I've never been wrong. So give it a shot.

Joe [00:04:48] See what happens. And that's something you have control over.

Ari [00:04:52] You know. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I had a functional medicine client that I had prepared to put onto an elimination diet. So all night shades and gone. Anything that's inflammatory. Sure. And she had paid me eight thousand dollars for this program where we did blood tests and genetic testing. And we I mean, we did massive diagnostics to figure out what was going on. And she was Italian. And she basically told me, I am not going to give up tomatoes ever

Ari [00:09:52] When you are healthy, it's you're not healthy that you crave it. And, you know, I'm Jewish. And breads and positive and, you know. Thing Hollas, and that is we love our bread. Right, Right, of course. And I am 100 percent gluten intolerant. But what you said in our think our previous interview, gluten in bread. Yes. Is a hundred percent of the time going to cause an adverse reaction in everybody. And I'd like you to explain why that is, even if you're not gluten intolerant.

Joe [00:10:29] Sure. Now, this clinical it is some clinical reactions. And this is what people say. I eat bread. I don't feel anything. So that's a clinical reaction. Subclinical means it causes an inflammatory reaction that you may not even be aware of.

Ari [00:11:51] Right. I'd just like to add in, you know, the gluten is a protein that's designed by the plant to stop bugs from eating it. Right. Right. It's a poison. It is designed specifically by the plant to kill whatever eats it. So they don't eat it. Right. And yet we at least in the United States, we breed highly gluten. Yes. We actually have genetically modified since the 70s. Our supply of wheat. Right. To be extra extra gluten gluttonous. So it doesn't really matter if you're gluten intolerant or not technically. Right. Gluten is a poison and it will cause an inflammatory response no matter what.

Joe [00:12:37] Yes, exactly. And I know some people can do organic wheats. They can do wheat from Europe. And they don't have quite the clinical reaction. But like you said, it's been hybridize to the point where it's much shorter, much higher in protein and gluten is made to be added gluten in which other proteins. And that causes the reaction. So I give it up for two weeks, try doing it again. If you do very simple thing, it's free.

Joe [00:17:46] All this raw food that I put my body is just awesome. So raw food always. And if you live in Florida, this always raw food around. You got oranges, you got avocados. And so you can always get raw food, but raw food is going to be the key. And if you do have reaction to lecterns, just pressure.

Ari [00:18:01] OK. So good. Good advice for people if you are to. Look at the systems scale. You and I talked before, and one of the things you said is we need all forms of medicine. We need the emergency care. We need the you know. But there are always flaws in every system. Correct. Right. And so if I'm looking at how do I create performance and peak results within the health care system, what type of things would I be looking at for the flaws that could be optimized?

Ari [00:22:53] OK. So I read. I actually recommend that often. And I very rarely see it, right. You're going to say a medical doctor and you want to interview them. It's going to cost you about 400 bucks. Or your insurance, at least 400 bucks to get in there. And they're going to be like, what? What are you asking me all these questions for? I only have six minutes to work with you.

Joe [00:23:19] That's true. Yeah. Ask your staff. Ask the staff. My staff has worked with me for a long time. They know my my style. I say, hey, listen, can I ask you three questions? You know, do they work with you if I have another doctor call you? Do you mind? You know, do you operate on everybody? I know I spoke to one surgeon one time and he said we only operate on four percent of the patients that come in our office. I said, that's great. What do you do? Other ninety six percent.

Joe [00:32:34] So nothing happens in your body. The brain cancer of what to do. By way of a nerve, indirectly or directly. So two things can interfere with the messages from the brain to the body, chemical or physical. Now, chemical would be food, drugs, alcohol, environmental toxins. These are the things you have a lot of control over. So with our patients, we always do a nutritional workup on every patient. And we educate the patient on things they can do to get healthy.

Ari [00:38:39] You know, part of what I was what I was taught also is that sodium from iodized salt is about 30, 40 percent silicone, which is glass, which is sharp. And the glass, when you eat it cuts the arteries and the cholesterol sticks and goes in to repair the arteries from that inflammation and that damage. And then if you are constantly eating that iodized salt, then you're cutting constantly value have this massive buildup. You know, the buildup comes from previous damage. It's an answer not to it to a cause, not a symptom of its own. Right. Right. So getting to the root of things is one of my fascinating, you know, areas I like to study is I like to study root of cause, root of car and trace things back to their very beginning. So how does that work when somebody say, comes into you, I've got diabetes by my legs are gangrene and I don't have them cut off. I'm I'm, you know, obese at the same time. What what is the kind of thing that you would do or say in order to get to the root cause of what's going on with that person?

Resources and Links

• https://drjoe.com
• https://CreateANewTomorrow.com
• https://www.facebook.com/arigronich

Full Transcription

Ari&joe.mp3

Ari [00:00:01] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down.

Ari [00:00:50] I'm Ari Gronich and this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:00] Welcome back to another episode of Create a New Tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich, and I am here again with Dr. Joe Esposito.

Ari [00:01:09] An amazing podcaster or chiropractor or nutritionist, pain management specialist, orthopedics. I mean, this guy has done everything in the industry and more. And so I am going to let him kind of give a little bit of his background and talk to you about really what his focus is in the next, you know, one to two years and how he's able to be of service to you.

Joe [00:01:36] Sure. I appreciate that. Well, thank you so much for having me back. I really love being on your show. Of course. Again, my background is on board, certified in chiropractic, orthopedics, pain management, double board certified nutrition. That's five boards. I have a B.S. in nutrition. I'm a retired dietitian, award winning author.

Joe [00:01:51] And so for the past thirty five years or so, I've had one goal, and that goal was to help you get well and stay well. That's it. And so much of health care you have control over. And that's the thing I think most people are missing. They think that if I have something wrong, I have to go to the doctor. But you have control of it because so many so many times the things that happen to you are self-induced.

Joe [00:02:14] You did it to yourself. And that's a hard thing to accept for me to say, gosh, the reason I'm sick is because I did it. And so we keep talking about health care costs and it's out of control and we can't afford it. And only the rich can do for it to get well. Well, you can take care of yourself because most of the things it takes to get well are passive. You have to not do something as opposed to do something. So if I say, listen, I want you to not do something, I don't know how to make it easier or cheaper. It's like, OK, I have to stop doing this. So with food, you know, I talk about the seven deadly sins of nutrition. I've talked about that for years. And the seven deadly sins are alcohol, meat, sugar, dairy, coffee, soda and artificial sweetener.

Joe [00:02:55] And people right now who are listening go, well, I ate my whole diet. If I could eat Alphabeat sugar, dairy, coffee. So an artificial sweetener, I'm going to starve. That's not true. I joke. I said it's probably about a hundred twenty thousand foods you can eat and you've never even thought about it. And people say, well, I like might be OK if you eat meat, make sure it's organic. Can we negotiate on that. I could do that once you stay away from artificial sweeteners. Well, I drink seven or eight diet sodas a day. OK, let's do a diet soda. That's sweet. With stevia as opposed to artificial sweetener. OK, I could do that. You know, the breads, cookies, cakes, donuts, imposter's. Oh my God. I love my bread. I want bread. Everyone loves bread right now. If I can have a piece of Italian bread, you know, hot out of the oven from New York City with a little butter on it. Right. I'd be happy. But if you eat, it is going to be negative side effects. How often? Hundred percent of the time. So I ask people this. I give him a challenge. I say for two weeks. I watch you eat fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. If you don't know what to eat. Go to our Web site. Dr. Joe dot com. Type in. So what can I eat? And we have a whole hour lecture on breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, parties, raising kids, everything. The first book I wrote called Eating Right for the Health of It is a guide to eating. It tells you what to eat, how to change your diet. The second half is well over 200 recipes. Everything is vegan, everything is gluten free, everything is soy free. I'm not against soy, but a lot of people have reactions to it. So I said, let me make it as clean as possible for you. And I said, do me this. Do do what I say for two weeks. So I ask. Two weeks. At the end of two weeks, I want to go out and have some pepperoni pizza because that's all of it.

Joe [00:04:31] That's wheat, dairy and pepperoni and ended. It's all there. And I said, just tell me how you feel. And it's it's you have to eat anyway. Eat good food for two weeks. Any pepperoni pizza? Tell me how you feel if you feel great. I was wrong. I've never been wrong. So give it a shot.

Joe [00:04:48] See what happens. And that's something you have control over.

Ari [00:04:52] You know. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I had a functional medicine client that I had prepared to put onto an elimination diet. So all night shades and gone. Anything that's inflammatory. Sure. And she had paid me eight thousand dollars for this program where we did blood tests and genetic testing. And we I mean, we did massive diagnostics to figure out what was going on. And she was Italian. And she basically told me, I am not going to give up tomatoes ever.

Ari [00:05:36] Right. Yes. We'll pay you and we're done.

Ari [00:05:42] Because she couldn't even comprehend. I said it's only 14 days. Right. Yeah. Right. Then we see if that tomato is causing that inflammatory response. She couldn't do even 14 days intraday, interestingly enough. So how do you deal with somebody who is. So addicted or habitual or just loves something so much that they won't do that one thing, that may be the thing that makes them healthy.

Joe [00:06:16] Well, that's called an addiction. An addiction, as you're doing something has an adverse effect on your health, your health, your finances or your social life. So you could be addicted to gambling. You could be addicted to sex. You could be addicted to tomatoes. Because, again, if you're eating a nightshade and tomatoes are causing an inflammatory reaction, it stimulates it don't mean receptor sites and it stimulates the endorphins in your brain. You're getting high. So you're smoking. You're getting higher. Your tomatoes and you're thinking, I can't give those up. I get high from them. So what I say then is let's give you enough nutrition for your body to start producing its own natural stimulants so you don't need the outside source. So whenever I have an attic company, whether it's cigarets or food, sugar, of course, is the number one coffee. I load them up on nutrients and almost inevitably, I can't every time it didn't happen. They start to say, you know what, I'm not craving that coffee like I used to. So I have my own line of supplements and I created these supplements because people need it simple, easy, inexpensive ways to manage their health. So the first something I ever created is something called Dr. Joe Super Greens and Dr. Joe's essential source to supplement and essential sources, fruits and vegetables. We juice it, take the water out at a very low temperature. What's left is a power that we have prebiotics probiotics, digestive enzymes, a complete non synthetic multivitamin, the super greed's alkalis, the system. And if we can do that to the body, the body now has at least a fighting chance. But if you're just struggling to get out of bed, you're not gonna give up that coffee. The only thing it's gonna get you out of bed. So when I can get them, get their body super packed with nutrients, they're able to make better decisions. And then they can say, you know what, I can't give up that ice cream or give me a substitute. You know, if you're gonna have ice cream, let's do soy ice cream or coconut ice cream instead. Oh, I'll try that and see. And then I can start to wean him off of psychological. They have to have that ice cream at night. If that coffee in the morning. So once we coach them a little bit and they want to do it, you know, if you ever go to a meeting, what's the first thing they say? You know, I stand up. Hey, I'm Joe and I'm an alcoholic. You have to admit you have a problem first. Are you not gonna make any progress at all?

Ari [00:08:17] So that's a key to recognizing where you are. Is is truly a first step. I know that for me, you know, I've had a brain tumor since I was seven. That causes a mass of hormonal imbalances. Sure. And my doctors have always said you'll never lose weight. You're going to gain weight until you're dead because your hormones aren't balanced correctly and you're healthy. All these things, which is part of why I got into the business to begin with. And I've recently dropped about one hundred and forty two pounds where, as I have been told, I'm a medical mystery and would never lose that weight. And really, it was all about I started intermittent fasting and API diet. So, you know, I took out all of the possible inflammatories and immune response, thinking technical now, you know. But but it works. And if I were to drink something like a soda, it would be so sweet on my tongue. I, I it would just absolutely make me cringe. Right. You know, what I'd like to tell people is.

Ari [00:09:38] Once you become healthy, you do not crave those other things, and you just said that perfectly when it comes to addiction. It's the same thing. You don't crave the things that make you unhealthy.

Ari [00:09:52] When you are healthy, it's you're not healthy that you crave it. And, you know, I'm Jewish. And breads and positive and, you know. Thing Hollas, and that is we love our bread. Right, Right, of course. And I am 100 percent gluten intolerant. But what you said in our think our previous interview, gluten in bread. Yes. Is a hundred percent of the time going to cause an adverse reaction in everybody. And I'd like you to explain why that is, even if you're not gluten intolerant.

Joe [00:10:29] Sure. Now, this clinical it is some clinical reactions. And this is what people say. I eat bread. I don't feel anything. So that's a clinical reaction. Subclinical means it causes an inflammatory reaction that you may not even be aware of.

Joe [00:10:40] Right now, your your adrenal glands are producing adrenaline. You don't know that. But it's happening. In fact, 90 percent of everything that goes on in your body you're totally unaware of. You're only aware about 10 percent of the nerves in your body, 90 percent of nerves don't feel pain. So what I find is if you're eating gluten, it can cause an inflammatory reaction, even on a small scale. But here's the thing with wheat. Two wheat, sugar. So let's assume that you're right and some people don't have any reaction whatsoever to gluten, I'm willing to OK. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll give you that. But wheat is still sugar. It's made of bran, which is the covering of the wheat. The endosperm, which is basically sugar, flour and flours, basically sugar. And then there's the germ, which is where the nutrients are. So what do we do? We make white flour. We take off the bran because that makes the whole wheat flour. We take the germ out because that has vitamin E in it, which you go rancid and that's why whole wheat flour goes bad. That's what we have left is essentially sugar. So if you're eating bread, it's just like eating tablespoons of sugar. So regardless of the gluten issue, if you could go with it or not, I'm fine with whatever direction I go. No one disagrees that it's pure sugar. And so that's why it's not a good idea to be eating.

Ari [00:11:51] Right. I'd just like to add in, you know, the gluten is a protein that's designed by the plant to stop bugs from eating it. Right. Right. It's a poison. It is designed specifically by the plant to kill whatever eats it. So they don't eat it. Right. And yet we at least in the United States, we breed highly gluten. Yes. We actually have genetically modified since the 70s. Our supply of wheat. Right. To be extra extra gluten gluttonous. So it doesn't really matter if you're gluten intolerant or not technically. Right. Gluten is a poison and it will cause an inflammatory response no matter what.

Joe [00:12:37] Yes, exactly. And I know some people can do organic wheats. They can do wheat from Europe. And they don't have quite the clinical reaction. But like you said, it's been hybridize to the point where it's much shorter, much higher in protein and gluten is made to be added gluten in which other proteins. And that causes the reaction. So I give it up for two weeks, try doing it again. If you do very simple thing, it's free.

Ari [00:12:59] That is, you know, I like that you you always add in the. This is a free thing. Eating healthy is too expensive. I can't do it. The funds. Right. Does it cost you to be sick.

Joe [00:13:13] Yeah, exactly. And I need it again. Maybe you're not eating organically grown raw broccoli. Maybe that's a little expensive, but you can get a can of beans. You know, maybe it's not organic, but you'll get two cans of beans for a dollar and you can get some rice. Is it ideal? No, it's not. But it's a heck of a lot better than a hamburger with cheese on white bread. So I always say, look, look to our ancestors. You know, I'm Italian. You're Jewish. Look to what they eat. They didn't have a lot of money. So what did they eat? They eat a lot of vegetables with a little bit of pasta, a little bit of meat. I remember go to my grandmother's house and we always have the vegetables and do the soups. And then to be a little tiny piece of meat, a little bit of pasta. It's not we don't eat these big meals of pasta. They think like Italians are eating know a little bit. And then there's always a salad at the end of a meal. No matter what. It was always a raw salad. So think how poor people eat and then you eat like that. My favorite cuisine is Ethiopian. I will love Ethiopian food. My gosh. And I grab. I'm sorry. Up and have. I don't know. But Ethiopian food, lentils, beans with peas, vegetables. And they use something called Tef. Now Taffe is a grass basically and they make something called Injia out of it. And so I just love Ethiopian food. I love the spices. I love it's fun to eat your hands and it's kind of fun. In America, we take in Jira and now we add. We do. It makes it more palatable for Americans. If you go to Ethiopian restaurant, ask for the pure and euro with the Taffe only. So looking at other countries and how they eat and we know that the longest living people don't eat a lot of meat. They don't. They eat plant based carbohydrates. They don't eat sugars and breads and cookies and cakes and donuts. And so as long as you're eating mostly plant based diet, you're going to probably live a lot longer than anybody else. So there's no argument there either. Studies are very clear.

Ari [00:14:59] Absolutely. And, you know, one of the things living in Florida that I absolutely miss from living in Los Angeles is the Ethiopian restaurant that I used to go to on Slosson. And you remember it, too, on the wall. It was, you know.

Ari [00:15:16] Oh, flavorful. Now, here's a question for you. You know, nice shades, lecterns, those kinds of things. I've been told that I really shouldn't eat beans or grains or any other kinds of kinds of things. And so where I live, which is a smaller town of, you know, in in Florida, it's not as rich of organic and variety of foods as what a Sandhills.

Ari [00:15:49] You know, how how would somebody who is in a rural kind of place and doesn't have access to some of these kinds of foods but does have these inflammatory responses, how would they be able to get the kinds of foods that you would recommend? Sure.

Joe [00:16:04] Well, something simple, if you do have elected reaction, you can always pressure them. You can buy these pressure. I mean, my mother had a big aluminum pressure cooker, I remember years ago. And I you can buy about 60, 70 dollars. And if you pressure cook the beans, it breaks down like this. So it's a real simple thing you can do. So even if you're eating inexpensive foods, there's a way to break them down. So that's a real easy thing to do. I try to recommend somebody if something raw at every meal, I say raw broccoli, cucumbers, tomatoes, avocados, lettuces, because raw food have something in it called enzymes. And enzymes are the secret to health care. Nobody's talking about them, but without enzymes, we're dead. You can live what you know for a long time with a lot of missing, a lot of other nutrients. But you can't live a long time without enzymes. And so your body produces enzymes. When you're young, you've got this big store of enzymes, your puppet about like crazy when you become old. The enzyme levels drop and we have a word for that. It's called aging. And so we could easily reverse that. See, I'm almost 60 years old. My staff, mostly 20 to 25 year olds. I run circles around a 20 year olds and Garrett my I.T. guy, my market director. He always jokes. He says, where are you? Plug in. He says, you can't be riding like this every day. But it's because I don't poison myself. I'm not special. I don't have great genetics. Just don't poison yourself. So raw food is going to be a key. I grew basil in my backyard this year and I just harvested it last weekend and I made so much pesto pine nuts, sun dried tomatoes, basil, little olive oil, salt, pepper. And I had pesto for lunch today. Now, it was kind of an odd thing. I did have some gluten free crackers, but I put a lot of pasta on a little tiny cracker. I feel great.

Joe [00:17:46] All this raw food that I put my body is just awesome. So raw food always. And if you live in Florida, this always raw food around. You got oranges, you got avocados. And so you can always get raw food, but raw food is going to be the key. And if you do have reaction to lecterns, just pressure.

Ari [00:18:01] OK. So good. Good advice for people if you are to. Look at the systems scale. You and I talked before, and one of the things you said is we need all forms of medicine. We need the emergency care. We need the you know. But there are always flaws in every system. Correct. Right. And so if I'm looking at how do I create performance and peak results within the health care system, what type of things would I be looking at for the flaws that could be optimized?

Joe [00:18:43] Well, again, if you keep yourself healthy, you're not going to have to be part of the system as much. So that's really the easiest thing to do. You don't have to worry about it because you're lowering your odds dramatically. If you don't have to go there again when I slice the top, my finger off. Well, that was a medical case. Absolutely. I didn't have a choice. I went to the first emergency clinic I could go into and I got treated. But if you're looking at something major, OK, you go to an orthopedic surgeon, you have back pain. We didn't have our eye over a swollen disc. You need surgery.

Joe [00:19:12] Time out. Let's get a second opinion. Thirty nine percent of our eyes are false positive. So what that means is if you have neck pain and I take an MRI of you. Thirty nine percent of time, you're gonna have a swollen disc, but it's not causing your neck pain. If I take 100 people, I don't have any pain. Thirty nine percent are going to swell. This doesn't mean it's causing you to pain. So if you happen to have a swollen disc and pain, it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.

Joe [00:19:35] So the best thing you could do is get a second opinion and then get a third opinion and look conservative first. I always say chiropractic first, drug second, surgery last. So if it's a pain issue, chiropractic easiest, simplest, least the least expensive way to go.

Joe [00:19:51] We hope we have a policy of six doctors that I want all my doctors, you know, they're under me for offices. And I always say we're gonna treat the patient for 10 visits. If we don't see any improvement, then we're going to go to the next level. Then we're going to do an MRI. Now, we found an MRI correlates with the pain. Let's find a neurosurgeon. If it's spine like neurosurgery, if it's a XtremIO orthopedic surgeon. And I've created over the years a relationship with these doctors. And I know that they're not happy because some doctors you walk in, I'm going to cut off your back. Fifty thousand dollars with you. Well, may not be the problem you have. So fifty thousand dollars. So I like to get a team of doctors that I know I can trust and that we call managed a case. And that's the key. Find doctors that are willing to co manage with other doctors. That means them more open minded as well. Well, keep yourself healthy. You're less likely to have to be part of the system.

Ari [00:20:38] Right. So integration of medicine, though, is is really key. And learning the language of the other modalities is so important, in my opinion, because if we don't learn the language like chiropractors have a different language, then massage therapists who have a death, which then physical therapists who have a different language than orthopedics. Correct. We all speak very different languages, which is why things get lost in translation so often. Why somebody might say, don't trust that person. They're only a chiropractor. Yeah. So here's here's an odd question for you. I'm sure that you've never heard this before. But are all chiropractors created equal? Are therapists created equal?

Ari [00:21:30] And how do you know as a consumer when you're going to somebody, if that's the person that can really be of service and benefit and help to you?

Joe [00:21:42] I agree. A hundred percent. Not everyone is. Is this good? Not everybody is bad. So when I say interview your doctor, you're hiring me to do a job.

Joe [00:21:51] You're going to pay me for my service just like I would hire a staff member. So interview your doctor. What's your philosophy? What's your thought? Do you work with other doctors? How well you've been in practice? When I was first in practice, I didn't know a fraction of what I know right now. So I want to find out. I want to go to somebody. I need patients when I was young and I get that. But I don't go experiment on somebody else. I want somebody who has a couple of miles underneath their belt and then find out what they thought. So do you have any problem? If I call my other doctor, would you mind if my doctor spoke to you? Absolutely not. No, I don't talk to the doctors. Interview them like you would a job. And the best thing you could do is get a referral. Talk to your friends. You know, Ari, who do you go to for your dental work? Well, I go to Dr. Smith. Whatever. OK, great. You've been happy. I'll be going to eight, 10 years. It's great. You know, I went to one dentist. They want to fill in. You said you did need it. OK. Now I know somebody I can trust, but there are some clinics. You know, we call them a mill. You just burn. Bernard Shaw, welcome in and out. Welcome in and out. And that's at the clinic. I want you to go to I want you to go to somebody who you trust and then interview the doctor as well. Those are the criteria. I do what I have to find a doctor as well.

Ari [00:22:53] OK. So I read. I actually recommend that often. And I very rarely see it, right. You're going to say a medical doctor and you want to interview them. It's going to cost you about 400 bucks. Or your insurance, at least 400 bucks to get in there. And they're going to be like, what? What are you asking me all these questions for? I only have six minutes to work with you.

Joe [00:23:19] That's true. Yeah. Ask your staff. Ask the staff. My staff has worked with me for a long time. They know my my style. I say, hey, listen, can I ask you three questions? You know, do they work with you if I have another doctor call you? Do you mind? You know, do you operate on everybody? I know I spoke to one surgeon one time and he said we only operate on four percent of the patients that come in our office. I said, that's great. What do you do? Other ninety six percent.

Joe [00:23:42] And he did have an answer that as I dug a little deeper, it turns out he was lying to me. So ask the staff these questions.

Joe [00:23:50] Do you can fire your doctor? It's OK to fire your doctor. You hired them. You can fire them.

Ari [00:23:57] That's awesome. You know, I was thinking we should probably get a list together of the questions, interview questions to ask here. Good idea. You're your personal trainer. Whoever it is can verify them because, you know, the old joke is. What do you call the person who finished last in medical school?

Joe [00:24:17] Dr. Right. Exactly. So I just got to finish first. Doesn't mean they're good either.

Ari [00:24:21] Right. Just because a friend may recommend doesn't mean that the friend knows. Might a good or not? I mean, I've never heard someone say you should go to my doctor. He's just OK.

Ari [00:24:33] But, you know, you should go to my doctor. He sucks.

Ari [00:24:39] I heard that. I've only heard you should go to my doctor because that's who I go to, right?

Joe [00:24:44] Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. Is that a bad idea really? You could point to me is that we could post on a Web site. No questions to ask your doctor.

Ari [00:24:50] Absolutely. This is one of the things that that I always say to people who are taking my courses is I create a program for every client that comes in. I literally I'll spend an hour, two hours asking them every possible question that I could think of that affects their life. Because, you know, I remember time not in my lifetime, but in my studies where a doctor would show up at your door and live with you for a week or two to figure out what was going on in your environment. That was you to be sick. Right. And we can't do that with the six minute, you know, is. So what's the answer? And I always say, if you if you could spend an hour or two hours really curious about your client and patient. Asking them everything, you can then develop a plan that you can test right for their health, right. And not a lot of therapists or doctors create plans. You know, I know that you you do your 10 visits and then you reassess and then you take. OK. So what do we need to do from here and assess? And then what do we need to do from here? And you take them through an actual process, a system. So flaws in the system. I like to I like to pick fights. I would say more like challenging systems right then than picking fights. But a flaw in the system is because of how insurance works. Doctors are not getting paid. And, you know, alternative health care vilifies the medical doctors, medical doctors vilify alternative health care. And what nobody understands is that we are about doing the same thing and doctors sometimes are broke. I've seen I've seen instances where because they take the burden of a practice, they're driving the Pinto while their employee is driving. Yes. Mercedes, right? Yeah. How do we shift? The system itself, so that it's more about results than procedures,.

Joe [00:27:07] And that's educating the public how the public doesn't know that things exist.

Joe [00:27:12] Patients can be all time and they had left leg pain. Well, they don't know. We treat right like pain and we don't treat left like pain. And it really is like sometimes that level. Well, oh, my wife has left like that. You do that. Yeah, we do. And so it's all about education. And that's why my radio show is my TV shows are so crazy popular all over the world, because in the show we make it like we make it fun, but we tell people that there's options out there. You know, the quickest, easiest, least expensive insurance policy you'll ever buy is vitamin D. And now you're Florida, you're getting lots of vitamin D because you're closer to the equator, but the further north you go, the more likely you are to get sick. I mean, the flu season is much worse up north than it is in the south. If vitamin D is getting more vitamin D, when you and I were kids, we went outside every day. School was over and outside came in. One of the street lights came on. Now we're inside all the time. We're sitting all the time. So I know if people do that, it's five. Five thousand international units of vitamin D is one of the best things you could do for your immune system. I didn't know that. So education is really the key. And that's why I do as many radio shows and talk shows and I do my own shows. I do it for free to fire stations. Now, just in the Atlanta area, we do TV shows, podcasts, and every show we do, I get bombarded with calls and emails saying, Dr. Joe, I didn't know blank. So education's key.

Ari [00:28:32] Yeah. You know, it's funny during this this experience that we're having of the word this new experience. You know, I don't like to get into the covered thing directly. So does. But right now, we're being isolated in our homes. Right. So what is the biggest thing that we can do to boost our immune system is get vitamin D and go in the sun, get right in our bodies, hug people, you know, build our immune system. We don't eat. You know, we're adults, so we're not eating mud pies anymore. Right. That helps your boost your immune system as well. Yes. So what do you say to people who are so scared of bacteria?

Joe [00:29:16] That's that's scary that you're scared of bacteria. Because there's something called the hygiene hypothesis and a hygiene hypothesis is that we're too clean.

Joe [00:29:25] And this scares me with this covered issue because I'm washing my hands. We have sanitizers everywhere, make my own sanitizer. We have sanitizers everywhere. We're wearing masks. We're not being exposed to viruses, germs and bacteria that do help build up our immune systems. And we're sitting in a house and we're not getting vitamin D. So when flu season hits, I'm scared. I'm frightened. So that's why I have a guy. I work in my garden all the time. I'm always outside. And it's not even so much for the tomatoes or whatever is I'm growing, you know, my cucumbers because I go by. It's it's a lot easier if I just went bought them than if I'm out there watering them and weeding them and everything. But that's an exercise. And you're touching the soil. You're getting probiotics, good bacteria on your hands. So, yes, we need to have a clean environment, not saying don't be a slob, but I agree with you. I think we do need some human contact because my germs are a little different than your germs and that your body will work on it. And that's why I support kissing.

Joe [00:30:21] So everybody should kiss more because kissing is a great way to build up the immune system.

Ari [00:30:24] So, you know, it's hard to kiss with a mask on. It really is. And that's that they're recommending that know yourself those recommendations.

Ari [00:30:33] And I saw that there a sports team that is now have they have a sanitary mister that you walk through. In order to deal buggier, I find it interesting, the fear of of this bacteria and viruses and stuff, because on your skin is a slew of species, bacteria and stuff that actually keep away things like scabies. And, you know. Exactly right. So this whole thing, if if we're overly alcoholic's our system and sanitizing our system, what's that doing to our immune system directly?

Joe [00:31:23] Exactly. And I'm not saying we shouldn't be cautious. And I'd say we should be flippant about this, but I am concerned that I think we I think we should start getting in to better contact with healthy people. I mean, that's the other thing, too. We said you know, I said the last time we interviewed, one of the things you want to do is surround yourself with good people. And it also means helping people. And so that would be a benefit as well.

Joe [00:31:44] I'm not saying we should be doing haphazardly, not washing our hands and touching our face. But I think we have to strike some kind of happy balance there.

Ari [00:31:54] Excellent. Yeah, you know.

Ari [00:31:58] I always get fascinated by a chiropractor's approach to the nervous system, huh? So why don't you explain what is happening, especially the noise that people are so afraid of. Right. A click, click, click, click, click, click, click.

Ari [00:32:19] Exactly what is it that that is doing for your nervous system that then translates into less pain, better health?

Joe [00:32:27] Well, the way the body works is your brain sends messages down your spine, out your nerves to every cell in the body is 80 trillion cells.

Joe [00:32:34] So nothing happens in your body. The brain cancer of what to do. By way of a nerve, indirectly or directly. So two things can interfere with the messages from the brain to the body, chemical or physical. Now, chemical would be food, drugs, alcohol, environmental toxins. These are the things you have a lot of control over. So with our patients, we always do a nutritional workup on every patient. And we educate the patient on things they can do to get healthy.

Joe [00:32:58] Physically, if a bone moves out of place, it causes an inflammatory reaction that inflammation can compress the nerve and it's a lot more to it than that. But basically it's pinching a nerve. So you pinched nerve. It can hurt. Only 10 percent of the time. 90 percent of your nerves don't feel pain. So you could have a pinched nerve and not know it.

Joe [00:33:17] So in our offices, all my doctors are trained by me to check the nerves that feel pain and to check the 90 percent that don't feel pain. This is one of the things that separates us from many, many other doctors in the world. No one ever talks about the nerves that don't feel pain. So if I pinch it off to my lungs, I may not have good breathing. I figure if I call it my spleen, my sex organs, my liver, those organs aren't working at 100 percent. So we can check the nerves and feel pain. And then there is it. Don't feel pain. Now we're able to restore normal function and the brain needs three things to function oxygen, stimulation and nutrition. So oxygen is we said at the desk all day with hunched over, we're not breathing as well as we should get out, walk, stand up a lot. Most of radio shows. I do. I do. Standing stimulation. Listen to this podcast. Listen to your podcast. Every time somebody listens to one of your podcasts, they're getting new information or stimulating different parts of the brain. And then nutrition is eating a good diet. So if we can get oxygen, stimulation, nutrition into the body, get the nervous system working, get the digestive system working and get them on good nutrition.

Joe [00:34:18] Now we have a health care plan. Most people have health insurance, but they don't have a health plan. So we put together a health plan and then that cracking, that popping noise you hear is when a joint moves out of alignment. It's believed nitrogen gas can get into that joint and we put the joint back in place. It's just air rushing out. That's what I've done. Clapping my hands is just air rushing out from between my hands. So all it is, is air rushing out. Now, if you keep doing it too much and done improperly, I should say, you can actually stretch the ligaments that hold the bones together. Ligaments like rubber bands once they stretch. They never go back to the original for the older we get the borb. Loss of Lack's, loss of ligaments, integrity we have. And so that's why good diet is important so that the nutrients can get into the ligaments and start to heal them as well. So the popping noise is really nothing to worry about if it's done by somebody who knows what they're doing.

Ari [00:35:09] Absolutely. And that comment is knowing, you know, somebody who knows what they're doing. So I see people all day long.

Joe [00:35:17] Crack their neck out. Doing that.

Ari [00:35:21] Doing their back, cracking there, right? What do you think of somebody doing there? That's self care.

Joe [00:35:30] I would say nice job security for me. As long as they keep doing that, I'm going to have a job. I got to fix them myself. Don't pop your own neck. You don't know how to do it. You can't even get the right angle if I don't have to do it. And I can't do it.

Joe [00:35:40] I can't get the right angle. I got to approach it from the back and my arms that go that way. That way. So go see a professional. I don't do a dental work, OK? So I go to a dentist for dental work. Go to somebody who knows spinel health care and spinal hygiene. We call it to make somebody have somebody do that for you.

Ari [00:35:56] Awesome. The other thing that you mentioned is brain health. And I was watching Broken Brains as a Mark Hyman documentary series. And they were talking about inflammation in the brain and diabetes and how they're calling inflammation or Alzheimer's and dementia type three diabetes right now. Right. The foods that we're eating are causing so much inflammation. And they're now finding that it's breaking that blood brain barrier, causing inflammation in the brain, which then causes the cholesterol to try to cover up the inflammation. And so this is a it's a multipart question. Cholesterol is not bad or is bad. Right. OK. And the inflammation being sent to your brain being only about nutrition?

Joe [00:36:48] Well, it's interesting because just this morning, I had somebody come to my house to give me an estimate as a repair work at the house.

Joe [00:36:53] And he walked in and he said, We got your doctor, Joe. Yeah. And he goes, Oh, my God. I just listened to your show on cholesterols. When you said X, that was the first thing you said to me. He says, it blew my mind. Cholesterol is not bad. It's actually good.

Joe [00:37:08] We need cholesterol. It's what we make our hormones out of. It's how that coating around the nerves of the sheath, around a nerve is made. So, yes, we absolutely need cholesterol. And it's not so much cholesterol. It's floating around in your blood. That's dangerous. If it's too high, of course, it's the cholesterol stuff, the artery walls. So fella came to my house, realized who I was, taught me to listen to a show on cholesterol. He said I didn't know cholesterol is good. I thought lower, better. I said, no, no, no. Lower can be really bad because a lower cholesterol, you need cholesterol for your hormones and your nerves and everything has to have cholesterol in order to work. So many things do. So if the cholesterol floating around in your blood is still floating, it's like a pipe. As long as it's not, it's still flowing through the pipe, you're fine. It's when the pipe gets clogged up. And so that's why I tell people you want to get your cholesterol checked. You also want get your homocysteine levels checked and you're c reactive protein because homocysteine is is a direct correlation to how much cholesterol is likely to stick to the artery walls. And the C reactive protein tells us how much inflammation there is in the body. And so if we have those three things that are positive, then we start saying, OK, we got to do something and we can do it. We can do scans. Many times I take an x ray, it's building up a cholesterol in the arteries, hardening of the arteries. And so cholesterol is OK. I'm not offended by that, but it has to be the right kind. And many times it's not that you're producing too much cholesterol, it's that you're not recycling the old stuff. And that's what raises your cholesterol levels. So dropping to production of cholesterol will lower the cholesterol levels. But that's not the problem. It's the symptom. The symptom is to recycle Anisfield.

Ari [00:38:39] You know, part of what I was what I was taught also is that sodium from iodized salt is about 30, 40 percent silicone, which is glass, which is sharp. And the glass, when you eat it cuts the arteries and the cholesterol sticks and goes in to repair the arteries from that inflammation and that damage. And then if you are constantly eating that iodized salt, then you're cutting constantly value have this massive buildup. You know, the buildup comes from previous damage. It's an answer not to it to a cause, not a symptom of its own. Right. Right. So getting to the root of things is one of my fascinating, you know, areas I like to study is I like to study root of cause, root of car and trace things back to their very beginning. So how does that work when somebody say, comes into you, I've got diabetes by my legs are gangrene and I don't have them cut off. I'm I'm, you know, obese at the same time. What what is the kind of thing that you would do or say in order to get to the root cause of what's going on with that person?

Joe [00:40:08] Well, we always do nutritional workup on everyone. OK, we have everybody that we call diet diary.

Joe [00:40:13] I always tell them, don't change your diet, don't lie. Just write down everything you eat everything. If you have a piece of gum, if you have a candy, I want. Written down for the next sometimes three, four, five days.

Joe [00:40:23] Then I had a symptom survey. We call it that mark off these different symptoms and I can look at the symptoms, I can look at the dye and I could say, OK, you know what? It looks like you might have your liver might be not working at optimum function or might be a adrenal issue or a bowel issue. And so then we put together a nutritional protocol specifically for them. And then we look at their spine, of course, as a chiropractor, we overlook the spine because that's the source of all nerves. And so if they have pinched nerve or put the nurse back in place and the other thing that's always missed is their digestive system. So many patients come to me and have acid reflux and heartburn burping, gas bloating, and the stomach, which sits below a muscle called the diaphragm, sometimes can push up against the diaphragm. It pushes up against a diaphragm, ultimately can rupture or herniate through the diaphragm. We call that a hiatal hernia, an hernia. Many times we can actually take the stomach and pull it back down away from the diaphragm and move it back to its original position, its normal position. I would say about eighty five percent of patients I test have this condition, even if they don't have symptoms as a way to test if it's subclinical. And so along with chiropractic, we want to open up the nerve, the blood supply through chiropractic adjustments. We want to fix the digestive system. We want to get them off. The bad foods are destroying the bacteria. Nicole, let me get him on good foods that build up the good back to your Nicole. And in most cases, when patients do what we say, they are blown away. The biggest complaint I get, I get this complaint every single day.

Joe [00:41:53] Why didn't I do this sooner? Why did I wait so long? I hear it every day.

Ari [00:41:59] That is that is amazing. And, you know, to me, it's so comprehensive, the approach, because, you know, you hear a lot nowadays about gut health. But only, you know, I guess in my echo chamber, I hear a lot about gut health because that's a that's a thing that we're realizing controls your brain more than any bacteria in your gut can make you crave the donuts that you're seen smelling. You don't even see them. Just smell this and think about it. Right. And all of a sudden, the bacteria in your belly go. I want one of those. And then the craving starts and then it's like, OK, I'm done, I'm done. I'm going to Winchell's. I'm getting a donut. Right. Right. And so people don't realize that their behaviors are not always their fault or their voice. Right. Right. The gut is really in charge of your brain cells a lot more than we we know. So they're calling, you know, microbiome the second brain. But in some cases, there is more trillions of them than there are of our own cells. Correct. So they could be more active than your own you know, your own thoughts.

Joe [00:43:24] Yeah. We have about 90 percent. I think the last study I read. 90 percent bacteria. You know, 90 to nine to one bacteria to human cells. So we really are just life-support for bacteria. So all we ever do is dislike, support for bacteria. So we get a good bacteria that was supporting our bad bacteria. It's a nerve that connects the brain to the gut, called the vagus nerve for us.

Joe [00:43:44] And I always had my favorite nerve because the vagus nerve controls so many different things. And if the vagus nerve is irritated, it can cause high blood pressure. It can cause heart palpitations. It can affect digestion. Digestion can affect brain function. It's like a leaky gut syndrome. And so we got to take care of the gut. And that's something that almost all doctors ignore. And I wish they wouldn't. And sometimes it's just as simple as saying, listen, stop eating sugar. Like you said, maybe you're doing something with a lot of antibiotics in it. Maybe like commercial meat and dairy products have a lot of antibiotics in. And so you're killing off the bacteria, Nicole. And every time you eat that food, let's cut that out. Maybe switch to organic, which doesn't have the antibiotics. Now, I don't eat meat. I've been a vegan for 34 years now. I'm not asking my patients to be vegan, but if there was a better way to eat, I would eat that way. I would love to have a meatball sandwich with provolone cheese on Italian bread. I would love to do that. I miss it. I remember thirty five years ago what it tasted like. I know it's not worth it. And that's what I try to teach people. Is it worth. Is it worth being sick? Now we're dying early. No. So I'd like to have that donut.

Joe [00:44:48] But it's not worth it to me when I can't get that their mindset going in that direction. It's great. And then we can get them on probiotics. One of the supplements I have is Dr. Joe's probiotics super greens, an essential source, have prebiotics and probiotics and it knows it too. Supplements. I recommend everybody take that's like a minimum supplement. Everybody should be taking a super greed's an essential source. And all these are on our Web site. Dr. Joe, dot com and I have a whole lot of supplements I've created because I want to make sure people are getting the nutrients that they need and then the extra boost if they need that as well.

Ari [00:45:17] You know, one of the things you had mentioned earlier and I used to to be close friends with Dr. Well, Lou Korona, I don't know if you Lou or heard of him. He's in Orange County area, but he's been considered by many, like one of the foremost experts on enzymes. And this is a guy who in his late 50s would he'd go to a raw food restaurant that I loved in unless it was in this county called Oh Lokke, my favorite raw food restaurant. And every Tuesday he would be doing these presentations on enzymes. Sure. And he would do a demonstration of himself being in his late, you know, late mid to late 60s at the time. And he would take three fingers and he would put them on the ground and he would lift his entire body up off the ground, his legs straight out in front of them. Wow. Any hold it for a minute. Wow, that's crazy. A full minute. And that and he would say just what you said. Enzymes are anti aging. And as a young guy, I am. And then he would challenge one of the younger guys in the room to.

Ari [00:46:37] He said, you don't need meat.

Ari [00:46:39] He was a vegan as well, you don't need meat to create strength, right? And to create muscles. This is what's possible when you're eating well, but eating massive amounts of enzymes. So do you have an enzyme that you recommend or enzyme supplements or a string of them that you recommend?

Joe [00:46:57] Dr. Joe's enzyme support. Find a Web site. Dr. Joe dot com. Now, I've got my own line of supplements and I always say if I eat a cooked meal, I'll have an enzyme supplement if I get a totally raw deal. I don't take the enzyme supplement. But as we get older, our enzyme levels are dropping. And so it's a real quick, easy, simple, inexpensive fix. If you cook food, get those enzymes back in there, take the stress off your body. And that's why the essential source of super greens have protein probiotics as well. And enzymes to help you digest your food. But they also digest himself. So if you're eating a raw carrot, about 60 to 80 percent of that carrot is going to be digested by the enzymes in the carrot. If you cook that carrot now, you have to use 100 percent of your own enzymes. So that's why you want eat something raw at every meal.

Ari [00:47:40] Can you. Can you kind of give a quick explanation on what exactly do enzymes do not just for your digestion, but also for pain, for your enzymes?

Joe [00:47:52] I look at as a dating service, a cellular dating service.

Joe [00:47:55] So the enzyme says, OK, you you calcium and you phosphorous, whatever, you guys got to get to know each other. So the enzymes cause these chemical interactions to occur. And I was picture I have this cartoon in my head that it looks like. So it's like a dating service and it makes everything start to come alive when it comes to inflammation, the enzymes to actually break down the inflammation like like PAC Man. And it's eating through things. And so the enzymes can break down inflammation. And that's why raw food diet is so important in pain management. I'm the only chiropractor I know in Georgia. I'm licensed in Florida, too, by the way. But I'm the only chiropractor. Georgia, I know it was board certified pain management. And so when I go to the pain management conferences, I'm like UTA coordinates. They're like. That's.

Joe [00:48:38] That's the guy. That's the guy who doesn't do drugs. He's a pain management expert. And so I remember one time I said, you're at a conference, a guy comes up next to me. So they ask me questions about a neurological issue, a patient deal with it. Can you hang on a second? Here. Years ago, we were you know, we would do the witchdoctors and now they're coming to us in droves because we have skills and knowledge that they've never even heard of. And that's why I said I'm more than happy to co manage a case. But the enzymes are going to be a key because they break and inflammation may help digestion. They help kids from rape. They prevent skin for regling. So enzymes are real quick. Again, easy, inexpensive way to keep the body healthy.

Ari [00:49:18] Absolutely. So, you know, my my ex-wife used to have a fibroid the size of a basketball. Really? It was humongous. And we had started to do some enzyme therapy. And the shrinking that it was, I mean, fully visual. You could see how much it shrank with enzymes that were specific to fibrous tissue. Right. And then she got pregnant and all of a sudden it went huge again. Right. Right. Take the enzymes, because the the theory was that the enzymes may see the pregnancy as a foreign object and want to correct that. Right. So for women who are going through fibroids insists and I mean, there is a massive amount of enzyme research to show that rather than surgery and hysterectomy And. Right. Taking out your organs, if you were to take enzymes instead, you'd be able to clear those up. Now that I can't say online cure, I can't say that it's going to be a fix. Right.

Joe [00:50:41] Right.

Ari [00:50:41] Of course I make promises is a possibility. Right. Right now, this is where I like to challenge the system. What would you say to the system that says to us who have clinical experience in doing things and reversing things that are going on when they say you can't say that? Right. Right. And so how are people supposed to know?

Joe [00:51:06] Right.

Joe [00:51:07] Well, what I say is, in my experience, what I found. What I've seen happen, what I do for myself is this. If you are my sister, this is what I would recommend you do.

Joe [00:51:18] And I always say, no promises, no guarantees. So I don't I promise no one can promise anything in health care. I always say no promises, no guarantees. However, I don't see a downside to doing this.

Joe [00:51:29] So let's do it and see what happens if it doesn't work. We can always go a little more aggressive, but I always put a disclaimer, every radio show I do, it is a disclaimer.

Joe [00:51:37] You know, the information on this show is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure any disease. Always check with your doctor.

Joe [00:51:41] And I'm not diagnosing it, curing or anyone. I'm just saying this is what you might want to consider because the Hippocratic Oath is, above all, do no harm, no harm. So is there harm in eating carrots and celery? No. So let's see if we can put that into our diet and then we can add other things if we need to start out slow work our way up. That's always my approach.

Ari [00:52:01] Right. So why is it that the system of medicine has gone so far away from that Hippocratic Oath? Because every drug that you'll see advertised on TV, there's a slew of harm, right?

Joe [00:52:15] Exactly. Well, there's finances involved, of course. But a famous guy once said forgive them for they know not what they do. And I see that so often I've had so many doctors come to me over the years and say I had no idea that enzymes might help this condition.

Joe [00:52:32] And for years, I treated patients this way. And now I know that I can do something as simple as this. Thank you. And almost every day, probably every day, we get e-mails and calls from radio shows and TV shows that I do saying thank you. This changed my life. And that's from doctors and hospitals and hospital administrators and nurses. And we have patients that come to us in droves as patients because they're not against it. They just didn't know it existed. And so I don't know any doctors that are maliciously out there trying to hurt somebody, you know. I know that everybody's trying to do the right thing. But many times they don't know what to do.

Ari [00:53:04] Right. I'm just, you know, like I said, I don't like the idea of vilifying doctors because they've been coronated in what they know and what they do. Right. System itself that we that we've allowed as a society and as an industry to have. Because there was a time when pharmaceutical companies were not allowed to advertise on TV. You're allowed to do some of the things that they are allowed to do now. Right. You know, doctors, you know, I say this once you've been enlightened, you cannot go back into the dark. Once your knowledge of something, you can't turn away from it. Right out of my book in this podcast. Create a new tomorrow is about how we get those people who are now awakened to get loud about it. Right. Just start. I say silence is a bully's best friend. It's one of my favorite sayings because. It's true that if you don't get loud, they're going to keep doing it. The people won't know what to ask for because they're not being informed properly, right? Sure. How do we get these people that are contacting you every day to not just change how they're treating the small amount of patients that they have? But to get loud about the system as a whole and how it's being suboptimal and the results that it's getting, right?

Joe [00:54:36] Well, we're seeing a big change, a big shift. You see so many documentaries now. I think I've been in three documentaries already. There's so many documentaries going out on Netflix and people getting excited about that. You're seeing the dairy industry really.

Joe [00:54:49] And again, I'm a capitalist. I'm OK. But unfortunate they're collapsing. And I'm not not unfortunately unfortunate for the farmers. I'm not unfortunate that dairy is going away. But you're seeing the rise of a plant based diet of vegan diets. I can't remember the last time I went to a restaurant that didn't have at least one plant based option or vegan option of at least vegetarian option. I wouldn't be dairy, but just the other day I got a coupon in the mail for pizza place and I just looked at it. Gluten free pizza, vegan options, vegan cheese. Ten years ago, it would have been unheard of. And here it is. That's just part of our advertising. You know, buy one, get one free. So I'm really excited that the world is waking up and I'm seeing that change every single day where, you know, I would talk about not eating me 30 years ago and was like crazy, not eating meat. Now it's like you see companies like Beyond Meets and Impossible Burgers. Their stocks are skyrocketing and Burger King carrying them now. So I definitely see the shift happening. And as long as we just keep momentum, it's like a car. We got it roll. And now we just got to keep pushing it a little bit. And I believe next 10 years or so, we're going to have a major shift in health care, not sick care and health care, chiropractic, nutrition, massage, the things we do at Oregon, work supplements. You're seeing the supplement business booming right now. So I think a lot of the pushback is in the past and we've kind of got the ball rolling. We just have to keep it going.

Ari [00:56:09] So then now that we've gotten it rolling, the question is how do we keep the quality high? Well, I've seen a lot of vegan options that I was really fascinated and interested and that I look at the ingredient list and it's junk and worth eating. Sure. And so, you know, part of what what I like to do is I like to say you could be a capitalist and you can earn a lot of money and you probably will earn a longer legacy of money if you do things right than if you do things quick. Exactly. And so how do we get these companies that are doing this amazing thing around plant based foods is not put in the stuff that is the.

Joe [00:56:58] Easiest thing to do is vote with your wallet.

Joe [00:57:01] And I do that everywhere I go.

Joe [00:57:03] If I'm not happy with service, I don't have to destroy this person. I don't want to have to put them out of business. I go somewhere else. They will destroy themselves. They will implode if they're doing bad service. Now, maybe it was just me. Maybe I was the exception. I wasn't the customer they gave the best service to. I don't want to put somebody out of business because they had a bad day or they had a bad employee that they didn't have control over. But if I'm going to eat a burger, well, I can decide which kind I want, because, like you said, a lot of the just cause it's vegan doesn't mean it's healthy.

Joe [00:57:31] You know, there's chocolate cookies with cream filling in a better, better vegan. I can't accidentally vegan. Was it meant to be vegan? It just happens to be. But that doesn't mean it's good. So vote with your wallet. And as long as we vote with our wallet, the industry is going to be driven to where the money is being spent. So it's a real simple process. So we're seeing more and more, you know, tea shops and coffee shops open up and they start to serve happy better teas and organic teas. And we see sandwich places now had vegan sandwiches. Well, it's not the best, but it's still better than having a baloney sandwich.

Ari [00:58:00] Then the next question is, how do we get the citizen, the citizenry, the people to learn what they should be spending their money on? And not because a lot of people I mean, I take people to grocery stores and I'll walk them around the aisles and I'll show them labels and ingredient lists and I'll teach them what it is that they're looking at. Sure. Ninety something percent of the time, not only have they never done that, but they wouldn't know what good or bad anyway. I mean, if you have fifteen different words for corn sirup.

Joe [00:58:37] Yes. Right. So I'm glutamate, right. Exactly. So what I do is I recommend everyone go to our Web site. drjoe.com. And just start listening to shows. Go listen to your podcasts. And the only way we're going to do it is to indoctrinate ourselves. So people like you and I are the leaders in this world. And it's a very simple thing. You know, people cutting the cable, they're not watching cable. The younger generation doesn't have TV anymore. So what can we do about that? Drive them to our podcast. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube at Dr. Joe Esposito. And the more followers we have, the more influence we have take. You know, if you follow us, we post every single day on social media. Take those things and share with your links. And now we can have a grassroots effort and start get people excited about it. So really a simple if everybody does one little thing, we'll grow this thing.

Ari [00:59:23] Yeah. You know, I love that we have listeners and we have people who are listening to our shows. What my hope is, is that those listeners become rather than passive listeners, they become active listeners. They start taking on the challenges and the things that we're talking about. Right. And they start sharing it with the people who are skeptical in their life and not so that they are picking fights with their friends who are, of course, right. These things. Right. But so that they are becoming an influencer themselves, so that when they have the knowledge. Now, you can't have that knowledge. But it is, in my opinion, your duty. Right. To start taking that knowledge out. And that's what I was saying about doctors who. Become enlightened. It's your duty. Yes. Loud about it. It's your duty to share it with as many people as possible to start your own podcasts, to start your own channels of becoming loud and educating the people around you. Because the only way things change, especially in mass movements, is by creating partnerships and teams and integrations and getting loud. Right. And we can make quiet, calm, peaceful revolutions, quiet, calm, peaceful protests. By just shifting ourselves and then quietly but loudly shifting the world around us. And that is definitely a goal of create a new tomorrow, which by tagline is activating your vision for a better world. So let's activate your vision for a better world. If you could look forward 20 years, what's the world that you want to see?

Joe [01:01:23] I still have a full head of hair. That's one goal.

Joe [01:01:30] Now, I definitely see the younger generation much more open to these changes, much more willing to say, yeah, you're right, that makes sense. And that's what I was I was laughing at as the three words. I want to hear every woman whisper in my ear, you know, that makes sense.

Joe [01:01:43] But I see in 20 years that health food, natural foods called health foods. What other would sick foods? Yes, actually, they are ethnic food. Yeah. But the health food just becomes the norm. No one argues with it anymore. That generation that argued with it are all dead or dying or sick. And I don't want that to happen to people that you can change this. I see that health care really is health. It's not about sick care. It's about health care. There will come a collapse of the health care system. It has to happen because if nothing if something doesn't work, eventually it's going to fall apart. Communism doesn't work. It's gonna fall apart. So it will fall apart. But it's not to just collapse. It's going to be taken over by things that are more effective, less expensive and less toxic. So the revolution is there. And, you know, to use that analogy, it's already happening. It's not like we have to start it. It's already going on. So I think in 20 years, could you hold the world? You know, things like chiropractic, things like raw food, things like supplementation are just going to be commonplace. No one's going to argue with that. You know, I think I do need an adjustment today. It's my chiropractic will get adjusted. So the fact the battle we fought the people before us fought is now coming to fruition. So it'll be a very different world. And I'm excited about.

Ari [01:02:57] You know, I've been in the industry twenty six years and you've been in the industry of probably thirty six years. So between us, that's 60 years. And seeing the changes, seeing the difference is seeing what has gone on. And in some cases it's gotten way worse, which, you know, they say you've got to go to rock bottom before, of course, where you can rebuild. But in some cases, there is a movement that I seen that is begun. I just want to have that movement go a lot faster. And, you know, I like Buckminster Fuller and he's one of my one of my mentors and inspirations. And he used to say, you know, you don't go up against the system as it is. Just build a better system. Right. Next store. The people will come. Exactly. You're saying people will vote with their wallet, their wallet. And, you know, my my hope is that the censorship that's happening right now isn't going to. STEM that movement as much as they're hoping it will. Right. And there there happens to be these powerful platforms of people that have decided what the narrative should be and that any narrative outside of it is. Is dangerous. And, you know, I just look at what is it that we can do to be more optimal? What can we do to perform at a higher level and get better results within a system and within ourselves? And you have given some amazing advice and tools so far. So the question that I have to finish this out and I ask this of everybody, what are two to three things that you can say that people can do right now, today, tomorrow, in order to activate their cells themselves and change their lives so that they can be more of a solution than than, you know, helping with the church become part of solution.

Joe [01:05:11] You have to eat anyway. You might as well good food, because the one thing we can't survive without is food. We can see if you're a heroin addict, if you're a gambling addict, you're a sex addict. If you're a cocaine addict, you can not have those things in your life. We have to have food now lives. And so only surround yourself with good food. Get the bad food out of the house. Oh, we have good food in the house. Take a high quality supplement. And this way we got the nutrition facts that if you don't know what to eat. Go to our Web site, DrJoe.com. You can type in something called the Seven Deadly Sins of Nutrition. We talk about the bad foods. And then a follow up to that is, so what can I eat? And whatever topic you have a question on? Go to our Web site, type it into Web site hit enter. Chances are we've done hours and hours of research on it for you. You just have to sit and listen or watch it. A lot of videos as well.

Ari [01:05:56] You said fifteen hundred hours of ponder now as a podcast.

Joe [01:05:59] Yeah, yeah. And they're all fine and they're all exciting and they're a little different than I've I've worked with people 10, 15 years in a business and they'll say, you know, like if my board operator so my producers and I like every time I listen to your shows, I learned five or six new things. I've a lot of stuff to repeat, but a lot there's always gonna be new information. And what you're going to hear it. You gotta hear something 11 times to memorize it. So I tell people, take a podcast you're excited about. Listen to it over and over again. It's every time you listen you to find new things. So don't ignore your health. It will go away. So take care of yourself. If you have neck pain, back pain to show the pain of headaches and numbness, find out why. If you're in the Atlanta area, we'd love to see you. We have four offices at the Stockbridge and West Cobb. Dr. Joe Gökhan is all the information. If you want to make an appointment, come see us. We can also do tell telemedicine if we need to. So find out what the cause is and get to the cause of your problem, not just treat the symptoms and then get the toxicity out of your life. And that goes for people. That goes for TV shows. I love listening to comedy. It's stuck in my brain shuts down. I like watching cartoons because it gives my brain a chance to kind of shut down and relax. Now, I could be watching. I don't watch the news anymore. I put it out in the morning.

Joe [01:07:12] I go through five or ten minutes, and then I got to stop because it's the same rhetoric over it over and over again. And that really brings me down. I'd rather watch an old episode of Friends or, you know, Parks Recreation or something or Futurama, because it's something that my brain I enjoy that. So surround yourself with the things that you enjoy. And if you do, those things can be pretty easy.

Ari [01:07:33] Thank you so much. I appreciate you coming on and. And we'll have to do this again sometime soon and kind of go through even more depth and details, because I can I can talk to you and learn for hours, hopefully teach you something, maybe that that you don't know.

Ari [01:07:53] And although I highly doubt it, you have.

Joe [01:07:56] Everyone know something you don't know.

Ari [01:07:57] So.

Ari [01:07:59] But anyway, thank you so much for being on. This has been another episode of Create a New Tomorrow with Joe Esposito and Ari Gronich, your hosts. So have a healthy day, everybody. Take some of these tools, put them into action and we'll see you next time.

Ari [01:08:18] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you.

Ari [01:08:25] If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, createanewtomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference.

Ari [01:08:41] I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out. And look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Sesh Sukhdeo is a global transformation expert, collaborative partner in business and in everything else. He's spoken at the U.N. and parliament on collaboration.

Learning how to communicate effectively to reach your audience is what Sesh Sukhdeo shares with us in creating a new tomorrow.

Episode Highlights

Sesh [00:04:09] Yeah. Well, in fact, the CEO eventually became my client for the government of Marysia. So I want a two year project that I'm the best person that I could find to who was actually doing some work for the World Bank on innovative thinking and systems thinking was was the ex CEO. And, you know, it's amazing, actually.

Sesh [00:04:29] I mean, when I look back at my career, know, it's it's a house that treats that wherever I have been, I've managed to build a beautiful relationship. And I would always have this vision of someone, whoever was at the top, being my friend. And it's happened, you know, not once, not twice, but. I think seven times I did my MBA late in my life. Ari, what are the chances of the dean of the business school then becoming my client

Ari [00:05:49] We have a lot in common. It is it is an interesting thing to be the face of a brand like Richard Branson is the face, right? Virgin, right. Elon Musk is the face of Tesla. And anything that happens within the company isn't have anything to do with the company. It's all Elon Musk or or Richard Branson or whoever is the face right out of responsibility and and dedication. That has to happen because you have to be authentic 100 percent of the time.

Sesh [00:09:58] You know, sort from game change. Which we did on the 19th of July. You know, Ari, I've done at this moment five global weddings. With presidents of countries, the prime minister's presidential candidates for Africa, for Asia, for U.K.. And that movement is it's just an expression. It's just about facilitating a conversation. And none of us, none of us every likes talking to anyone who's not listening.

Ari [00:15:31] Yeah, absolutely. So let me ask you, are some of the harder questions which are still you know, you've been a systems engineer, so to speak. You've you've helped create systems and infrastructures in countries. Right. And so when you're doing something like an infrastructure all. Proposal build creation. What are the obstacles that you find? Get in the way of the red tape that gets in the way of really making that progress faster?

Ari [00:20:06] You don't know what it feels like to me is that you're saying that no matter what the block is, the answer to dissolving that block lies within the person who the block is with, not the outside system. So when somebody says to me, oh, I've I've gotten hit with all the red tape or I've gotten hit right obstacle on creating what I want to create, it's not necessarily the obstacle or the red tape or the thing. Right. Belief that those things can stop a person from doing what they are called to do. And it's a totally different conversation than there's red tape. We need to get rid of the red tape. We need to negotiate. You know the thing differently or whatever that is. It's a totally different conversation. It's an internal conversation, not an external.

Sesh [00:24:59] You know, and to me, ever since I started doing that a few years ago. I am have found other items and a great leader. Is only a great leader if he has what I would define as his dream team or her dream team. And I'm blessed today, Ari. Because in all my corporate career. I have never experienced the sort of love, devotion and affection and kindred's miss. As I have today with people including yourself, Ari. And others who are at the table and we're enjoying. What we do at the table. We don't have to necessarily dying every day, every week at the table.

Ari [00:37:54] You see, that was kind of what I was wanting to lead you into is I hear you go on social media these days and you hear a lot of people complaining about the leadership that we have now and about the world and the state of the world that it's in. And what you just said is what create a new tomorrow. Activating your vision for a better world is it's you take control and make the decisions.

Sesh [00:38:24] Now, that is what you're seeing happening already. You'll seeing that globally with with with protests. We're seeing the rise of the planet and the environment. Now, these aren't new conversations, Ari. They have been around, you know, corporate issues and the political issues will remain.

Resources and Links

• https:www.facebook.com/sesh.sukhdeo
• https://CreateANewTomorrow.com
• https://www.facebook.com/arigronich

Full Transcription

Ari&Sesh-1.mp3

Ari [00:00:00] As it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down. I'm Ari Gronich and this is.

Ari [00:00:53] Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:00] Hello, this is Create a new tomorrow with Ari Gronich, the performance therapist, and I'm here with Sesh Sukhdeo. He is a global transformation expert, collaborative partner in business and in everything else. He's spoken at the U.N. and parliament on collaboration. I'm going to let him give him a little bit more information about what he is and who he is and how he does what he does. But, Sesh, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. And you're in London, correct?

Sesh [00:01:35] I'm in London. Yes, absolutely. I'm in London. It's good to be. Good to be here at the moment.

Ari [00:01:41] Hows the weather there today.

Sesh [00:01:42] Well, it's not it's been not too bad. We had a really interesting month being really hot, warm, but also rain and windy. And this week's been a bit cold. So we've got both both extremes.

Ari [00:01:55] Well, that's good. I'm here in Florida. It's about ninety something. Degrees, humid, rainy and thunder and lightning storms all all day and night. So it's been it's been pretty fascinating here. But what do you tell a little bit about yourself and why is it that I'm talking to you?

Sesh [00:02:12] Sure. Read. So a little about myself. So I was I was born in the U.K. I've had an interesting career, both from a management perspective, relationship perspective and experience perspective. I've never been one of those people that has been the most academically intelligent. And I never I never sort of sat really well within the confines of a box. My creative thinking, my innovation, my freshness has always stood me in good ground. And I probably always came to the table with an element of sincerity from a very young age, always came wanting to serve or wanting to help. And through my career, that's allowed me to do some really wonderful position, to do some really wonderful things and work with governments, work with private businesses. And I mean, it's amazing. It really is amazing in the sense of what is possible. When you. Believe in yourself. And that's something when you believe in yourself. And when you open up these channels, full opportunity, you know. So, look, I don't know. It's not about necessarily all the great myths. I think it's about what if I.

Sesh [00:03:32] What if I learned into that process.

Ari [00:03:34] Or as a specific thing that I think is is awesome. And that is you and I have something in common. And we don't really talk about it that often. But what we have in common is you and I both worked as behind the cashiers at 7-Eleven.

Sesh [00:03:54] Oh, wow. That's right.

Ari [00:03:56] And what. What? I did not have the opportunity to do. And you did is. You ended up years later being a consultant for the CEO. Correct.

Sesh [00:04:09] Yeah. Well, in fact, the CEO eventually became my client for the government of Marysia. So I want a two year project that I'm the best person that I could find to who was actually doing some work for the World Bank on innovative thinking and systems thinking was was the ex CEO. And, you know, it's amazing, actually.

Sesh [00:04:29] I mean, when I look back at my career, know, it's it's a house that treats that wherever I have been, I've managed to build a beautiful relationship. And I would always have this vision of someone, whoever was at the top, being my friend. And it's happened, you know, not once, not twice, but. I think seven times I did my MBA late in my life. Ari, what are the chances of the dean of the business school then becoming my client?

Ari [00:05:02] That that is great.

Sesh [00:05:03] A yes, but that's all in a nutshell, because because of of it's not by luck.

Ari [00:05:09] You know what it sounded like. It's by plan. You've you vision debt. You said I'm good enough to be that.

Ari [00:05:17] And so I can envision that that's going to happen. Yes. Right. Yes.

Sesh [00:05:24] Yeah. But, you know, I think that would let me look back at our early days, though, Ari.

Sesh [00:05:28] There are some people who will know how to work the system. And there are those who are still having to grapple with this self-worth. So I grappled with that. Truth be told, for many years. I grappled and I never thought I could be the face of a brand. Can you believe that?

Ari [00:05:49] We have a lot in common. It is it is an interesting thing to be the face of a brand like Richard Branson is the face, right? Virgin, right. Elon Musk is the face of Tesla. And anything that happens within the company isn't have anything to do with the company. It's all Elon Musk or or Richard Branson or whoever is the face right out of responsibility and and dedication. That has to happen because you have to be authentic 100 percent of the time.

Sesh [00:06:23] You've you've got it. You've got to say when you said that we've both got this in common, we've also got some other things in common. I think that was my whole point. We might have one new environment and we started our careers very early on serving customers. And today we're still serving customers. It's just been a very different way. But you know, what you spend there is really true. Being authentic isn't just a phrase you just say and. Right. I think they live it the greatest leaders that we know, the icons of leaders that we identify with. Their brand promise is really their authenticity. And that's something which which, you know, I'm still going through to be authentic, to ensure that I'm authentic and to not be influenced by who where, you know, what they said. What I've done, because that really is just the ego playing there.

Ari [00:07:26] Right. So being the face of one and done, that's your company and gang change, your sash should come. Tell me about what it's like to be developing something that then brings along others and becomes a movement, right, versus just being a company that does a thing and provides a thing. Right. You're creating a movement. And that's really something that I am extremely interested in with create a new tomorrow is all activating people so that they can create their movement. So what are some things that that are traits that it requires to do that?

Sesh [00:08:14] I think the first thing is that they always say wisdom prevails. But within wisdom requires you to continuously learn to fill up that wisdom bank. And, you know, I'm open minded.

Sesh [00:08:30] And I enjoyed the open mindedness and, you know, those traits that you know, that we need to think about the next era. And I use that word because I came across a beautiful leader. His name is Barry Holmes and Damian Sindhu from Home House, a beautiful, prestigious business environment in London. And I sat in on one of the webinars. I was amazed because they had leaders around the world.

Sesh [00:08:58] Talking about the next era collectively, so no longer do we, I think, differently. We are together creating the change and being the change. It's not just about one leader. And I think that's what's happening, we're in that phase every where. Consciousness as a collective, the collective consciousness is now coming together to create and be that change. And we have to be ready to take that mantle to be that change. And that's why I do what I do. I create that movement because I want people to have daric. I want them to live their passions. I want them to. Identify with like minded people and souls who can make a difference. Because no longer are we shackled in business.

Sesh [00:09:58] You know, sort from game change. Which we did on the 19th of July. You know, Ari, I've done at this moment five global weddings. With presidents of countries, the prime minister's presidential candidates for Africa, for Asia, for U.K.. And that movement is it's just an expression. It's just about facilitating a conversation. And none of us, none of us every likes talking to anyone who's not listening.

Ari [00:10:36] I like that, you know, when Martin Luther King was creating the Million Man March. Right. He's considered to be the person who was leading a movement. And then I look back at the history and I see Rosa Parks and I see it full of the other people that it took to create a million person march. Right. And I think to myself, when when somebody says I'm creating a movement, what they mean. And they don't necessarily even know this is I am creating a lot of other leaders. Beautifully, you have to be a leader to join in a movement and then participate and make it function, correct others. There's lots of leaders, right? Every presidential campaign has campaign managers and every city has people who are leading has people who create the the road and the door campaigns and phone campaigns. There's a lot of leaders being made. And so my question to you then becomes, how does one become so passionate about something that other people will want to be in on being a leader in that movement?

Sesh [00:11:58] Yeah. So I will answer that before I answer that. I'll ask your listeners to maybe reflect the following. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that the brand that trainers is that everyone wears.

Sesh [00:12:12] What does it cost for that treatment to actually be made? And what do you pay for it? Why do you pay the difference? Because it's the sense of belonging. It's not written anywhere.

Sesh [00:12:30] It's the sense the brand promise of a brand is no different to the authentic promise. That when you are coming from a heart perspective and you are soulful and sincere. You will find that people recognize that value and will place a tremendous amount of respect and affinity.

Sesh [00:12:57] To you as an individual?

Sesh [00:13:00] And so I guess what I'm trying to say here is.

Sesh [00:13:06] The leader who can propagate who has a following. We're people, as you are explaining, and you can and I am you know, I talk to understand what you're saying here because, yes, we have a huge following now, you know, and we have lots more happening. But that's because I want to make a difference. I want to create an experience that's engaging. Because when you do that and I come to the table, I don't know if we think food does and I'm okay. I'm the first person to say, wow, I love that. Yeah, there are times area and, you know, just because you've been you've been we've been together. Look what happened to achieve when I was there. You know, but every now and then, we need to be placed on the correct stage. With the right audience. To be heard. So did the best leaders understands the power of their inner voice. They express it in a way in which the audience. Fields say. And so that's why I keep coming back to it, the right engagement area creates beautiful experiences.

Sesh [00:14:27] And there's one thing for sure.

Sesh [00:14:31] Tell me a great memory that you can't remember. A great experience that you can't remember. You'll always remember them. And it's no different to a leader. The greatest of leaders, only this morning I got to I got a message from someone who I had worked for me many, many years ago, says, you have been an inspiration for me. That is why I'm here today. That, to me, would be my legacy. Knowing that maybe I'm not doing sufficient for charity. But I can still make a difference to people in other ways. And that's not written. There is no book that says that is a school of leadership.

Sesh [00:15:19] There's no it's not, Dan. It is.

Sesh [00:15:24] It is now, you know, so. So, I mean, I hope I hope what I said resonates for you and your listeners.

Ari [00:15:31] Yeah, absolutely. So let me ask you, are some of the harder questions which are still you know, you've been a systems engineer, so to speak. You've you've helped create systems and infrastructures in countries. Right. And so when you're doing something like an infrastructure all. Proposal build creation. What are the obstacles that you find? Get in the way of the red tape that gets in the way of really making that progress faster?

Sesh [00:16:07] Yeah. It's the believability factor, because when you're confident.

Sesh [00:16:13] Right. Sometimes there's a saying it's too good to be true. Right. But that is only in the beholder. That holds that message. So, yes, you know, I think that creative part of me has always overcome that. But here is some of the blockages or barriers that I've experienced. You know, I'll sit with the board and they'll say we've tried this with the most prestigious consulting firms in the world. How can you do this? Right.

Sesh [00:16:44] You know, we've been talking about this for two years. We just can't get this going. But it's too expensive. Or they'll say you don't have the qualifications.

Sesh [00:16:59] Right. And I will say, tell me what qualification I need.

Sesh [00:17:05] To create the best experience you would ever have.

Sesh [00:17:12] And tell me when someone give me an example then of when someone has performed. And has done and achieved things that have been remarkable and they sit there, well, they can't. Okay, what if you can't? Well, why are you judging me? And it's about having that heart to heart conversation. And what I say is, well, okay. If you find that some of this is a bit challenging to maybe accept. Let's monitor and evaluate them, because if I perform. I was in peak performance from your perspective, and I produce. Are you prepared to share some of the upside? Because I am. And it's this type of conversation, so there is some tactics, but it's more around again designing everything I have done. Has been around designing an experience. I'll give an example.

Sesh [00:18:20] I was sitting one day, you know, at one point in my career in a training course, and it was with one of the world's leaders who was mentored around Peter Drucker, around alliances.

Sesh [00:18:32] And he was taking a course. And I sat and I looked around me and I had this aha moment and I said, I can do what he's doing. I can also train. And you know what? I ended up being one, being a world class facilitator. I'm training. I'm not surprised, but at the time when I look back, it was never on my crib sheet of things I wanted to do. Right. Right. But there we go. If you know, those barriers are also, you know, it's for ourselves as leaders to overcome. Can I achieve this? How do I make a difference? What is the skills that I need? Well, the competencies that I need. To deliver. And it's an expression and what I do. Whether it's through one and done or a consulting assignment or mentoring. Is I truly wish to have a beautiful conversation with you.

Ari [00:19:44] I gotten that quite a bit because, you know, we have had the pleasure of being in each other's company a lot. I've received some tremendous mentorship from you.

Sesh [00:19:56] Thank you.

Ari [00:19:57] Some of it has gone the other way. I know I helped you to walk a little straighter.

Sesh [00:20:02] You did. You certainly did. But thank you.

Ari [00:20:06] You don't know what it feels like to me is that you're saying that no matter what the block is, the answer to dissolving that block lies within the person who the block is with, not the outside system. So when somebody says to me, oh, I've I've gotten hit with all the red tape or I've gotten hit right obstacle on creating what I want to create, it's not necessarily the obstacle or the red tape or the thing. Right. Belief that those things can stop a person from doing what they are called to do. And it's a totally different conversation than there's red tape. We need to get rid of the red tape. We need to negotiate. You know the thing differently or whatever that is. It's a totally different conversation. It's an internal conversation, not an external.

Sesh [00:21:05] So true, every so true. And that conversation has to have a sender and receiver.

Ari [00:21:15] So, I like to mirror work a lot because I'm sending a.. Well, I'm in a mirror and mirror. Work, to me is one of the most powerful things you can do. You're staring in a mirror for a number of minutes. Progress, a long, longer period of time than not. And you go from surface to depth. You start out at the surface. I don't see anything. I'm not looking at anything. And then all. What is that on my face? What is that? In my eyes. What is. My skin. And then why don't I like that about myself. And then all of a sudden you get to. There's trauma there, there's trauma like that. And then there's trauma behind that. And when I clear those things. All of a sudden, not only do I feel lighter, but things start flowing in a much more authentic manner and they start becoming easier for me. So let's talk a little bit about about that. How what is the process that you use to. Become more authentic within yourself to to express yourself in that authenticity.

Sesh [00:22:33] So I think it's a statement that someone made and I can't remember who the famous leader was there also.

Sesh [00:22:39] But often we attach ourselves to an outcome. And that creates a desire. Which, if you cannot deliver on an unacceptable respect, creates this imbalance of worth its worthiness. You've described something which is about purpose, knowing your purpose. What is your purpose? And if you place your purpose higher than the trauma. And removes the energy signature with that trauma. Your purpose is divine.

Sesh [00:23:23] Can you tell me something? My friend? Why wouldn't anyone want to live with divinity?

Sesh [00:23:36] But we don't look at it that way.

Sesh [00:23:40] We tend to focus on the trauma and the energy and the misuse and the emotional piece.

Sesh [00:23:49] We we have this rubber band over here.

Sesh [00:23:53] You've heard of that that emotional rubber band which is pulling is stretching us, you know. But but really, I am.

Sesh [00:24:02] I am.

Sesh [00:24:03] You know, I don't need the material things to be I am. I don't need that trauma to be. I am. I'm probably we're probably more divine than that. No, I'm not. I'm not at all, you know, spiritually gifted from the perspective of some people. Oh, neither am I well versed in it.

Sesh [00:24:26] But I do know that. There was a point Ari where I let go. I let go of anger.

Sesh [00:24:37] I let go of failure. I let go of material things. I let go of emotional pain because of relationship breakup's. I let go of my self sabotaging traits. And I placed my finger. I am.

Sesh [00:24:58] I am.

Sesh [00:24:59] You know, and to me, ever since I started doing that a few years ago. I am have found other items and a great leader. Is only a great leader if he has what I would define as his dream team or her dream team. And I'm blessed today, Ari. Because in all my corporate career. I have never experienced the sort of love, devotion and affection and kindred's miss. As I have today with people including yourself, Ari. And others who are at the table and we're enjoying. What we do at the table. We don't have to necessarily dying every day, every week at the table.

Sesh [00:25:58] But you know that we make a difference. Right. And it's that difference, it's that difference. Which leaves that whole mark.

Sesh [00:26:12] So to me, to me, the lead, the leader who who doesn't understand that we are we've shifted. I will ways of work. We've gone through a tremendous transformational shift. Businesses have had to re pivot a ways of working. Have had to re pivot. There is now a tremendous collective consciousness of energy and people who are there because wherever there is fear, there is love and affection and affinity. That is what counts as Fed. Right. Right. So that got that to me is is what the greatness has has happened. And I'm saying this it resonates. Because what happens is when you find that place, I am. People will come into your circle and they will bring with them that sphere of radiance.

Ari [00:27:17] Absolutely. I was lucky I took a class when I was 18 years old, a healing art form called I Am.

Sesh [00:27:26] Oh my gosh. I never knew that.

Ari [00:27:29] Yeah, I know you didn't know that at all.

Sesh [00:27:31] How would I know? Well, we've learned to Seven-Eleven when we were young. And you told your class at a very young age called. I am.

Ari [00:27:39] Right. And that clap for I acknowledge myself. Beautiful acknowledged myself. And the idea of the class was really how do you differentiate when what you're feeling is yours versus somebody else's, when somebody else has put something on you, so to speak, whether it's a belief system or a trauma or a thing at all, you know, or you're walking down the mall and you get a headache and that's not your headache at somebody else's. Right. So it's like acknowledge what is yours and what is not so that you can separate the two. And then you can deal with what's yours. I acknowledge myself. I am me. I am. And it was a very powerful course, especially being 18 years old and not really having that kind of a level of understanding before. But what it sounds like you're saying when you say I am. Is. I am acknowledging myself. I'm being who I need to be for the world at this moment.

Sesh [00:28:51] Yes, Ari. And I also would say that.

Sesh [00:28:54] I am.

Sesh [00:28:57] Does not need to be influenced by the things around me or who is around me or the material things that are around me. I am is as divine as I am.

Sesh [00:29:09] It is when when we understand that piece, it gives us peace of mind to calm that down because that that place of I am. Is more powerful than the mind having to keep resetting itself.

Sesh [00:29:33] And.

Ari [00:29:34] So how can how can others? Do you have any techniques for others that they can?

Sesh [00:29:39] Well, I'm I'm I'm you know, I will as I said earlier, you know, learning is is is an art in itself.

Sesh [00:29:47] And we are never, never too old to learn. You know, I think those techniques are around understanding your learning style, learning approach, doing the checks and balances every time, but also. You know. Reaching out to people who have that wisdom. Mentoring is not a nasty word, it's the most beautiful thing coaching, as you know. You know, you've coached and worked with Olympic athletes, global icons. Every athlete has a coach. Has someone taking care of them? And I would say that there's a tremendous opportunity for everyone and all of the, you know, the most prolific leaders that I know are old, so they have they have coaches and mentors. And, you know, you'll find someone who resonates with you and it could be one or two or three people. But eventually it's that wisdom that transcends from one person to another. And it was a beautiful story that a beautiful comment that a leader gave to me last week. They were on a major global virtual summit. And she said, you know, I was asked this question, you know, what do you think about money then? You know, why do you charge people? And she said, well, well, what I'm giving is my wisdom. It's an exchange for my wisdom. And the word wisdom in itself is not just about intellect. We know it's not just about knowledge. It's a blend of other things. And how do you put a price on that? You know, so so, you know, the the things that I would suggest is is probably gives you three, three, three things that maybe leaders can think about. One is.

Sesh [00:31:48] Remove the friction in our lives. You know, we we should seek simplicity. The second thing is to. Being the company of people whose energy is uplifting. I get used to. Taking decisions about those two armed. Early enough. And the third thing is follow your gut. Instinct, the intuition actually isn't wrong. If we if we know how to tune into it.

Ari [00:32:37] So just kind of recap. What that is that you just said. Get rid of the friction.

Ari [00:32:49] The rub, the things that cause heat and inflammation. Right. And of course, I'm on them in the medical world. So I look at body inflammation. Right. Foods that cause your particular body more heat, more friction, more inflammation, which basically is more dis ease. Right. Get rid of people. And I don't like the phrase toxic people. I don't think that people are toxic. I think that people are who they are. And in some cases, they're good for you and in some cases they're not. And I don't believe in that whole phraseology of of toxic people. It makes me kind of cringe, actually. What I am in favor of is my people. People that. Are drawn to me. I'm drawn to them because we are lifting each other up. So those are my people. If you're in a crab bean and they're pulling you down, that's those are not your people. That doesn't make them toxic. It just makes them human. Right. Right. And so, you know, you'll always find those people who are willing to lift you up. And those people who want to bring you down. And it's OK to separate yourself from those people who are wanting to bring you down and spend more time with people who are wanting to lift you up. Right. And part of that is a trauma in and of itself for some people. Like like I've always known that I need a mentor. I need a coach. I am a coach. I need a coach. John McEnroe, best tennis player in the world when he was playing. Had a great Andre Agassi. Had a coach. Right. The best in the world. Has a coach behind them, has a team, has an entourage is what I like. Right. The entourage that makes them who they are. And there just happened to be the ones out front doing the deed. Right. So being on that, but at the same time, so many people that I hear say things like, I don't need help. I don't ask for help. I have trouble asking for help. Help is not something that you should be a man or you should be a woman or an adult. You don't need help. You can do it yourself. So what would you say to people who are trying to change the world and do it themselves?

Sesh [00:35:37] You know, if I was to put it this way, there are some people who can change the world and probably do it themselves.

Sesh [00:35:45] OK. Without ego. Right.

Sesh [00:35:51] Because they're doing it from a place of their passion and their purpose, you know. Whereas there are some leaders who. Believe they know best.

Sesh [00:36:09] And the fact of the matter is. How do we know we know best? On on on whose court are we judging? Right. And how many bad decisions have we made? You know, they will continue. The decisions are decisions and it's. But it's deep learning. Out of those decisions. Which is the most rewarding, Ari? It is not just the nature of the decisions and the choices we've taken. That is the systems piece. No, no, no. It is the learning that we've discovered and those attributes that we have assembled.

Sesh [00:36:54] And drawn conclusions from. That is the merit of. Progress.

Sesh [00:37:04] And, you know, authentic leaders, you know, we still today have very, you know, leaders who are very autocratic. We have leaders who are taking advantage of people. We see that every day and with it in some shape or form. Right. Well, that is their purse. That is their choice. They've taken me. And you can't be accountable for their decisions. They have to they are the ones that have to grapple with that.

Ari [00:37:35] We tend to take them out of other people's decisions that are in those leadership roles, right?

Sesh [00:37:42] Unless you unless you take control. And. Make the decisions.

Ari [00:37:54] You see, that was kind of what I was wanting to lead you into is I hear you go on social media these days and you hear a lot of people complaining about the leadership that we have now and about the world and the state of the world that it's in. And what you just said is what create a new tomorrow. Activating your vision for a better world is it's you take control and make the decisions.

Sesh [00:38:24] Now, that is what you're seeing happening already. You'll seeing that globally with with with protests. We're seeing the rise of the planet and the environment. Now, these aren't new conversations, Ari. They have been around, you know, corporate issues and the political issues will remain.

Sesh [00:38:47] OK, what's shifting?

Sesh [00:38:51] Is the conscious consciousness of the people. It's the ability for people's voices to be heard.

Sesh [00:38:58] And to be that different, make that difference.

Sesh [00:39:03] You know, and that's and you're no longer alone. We no longer carry alone. Technology has allowed us to engage and find people, find our tribes, find people who can resonate with us.

Sesh [00:39:18] And so this this next wave we're in. Every is. And this is happening globally. And I'm telling you from the perspective of sharing this, from the perspective of engaging with global communities today. Where everyone's conversation is around collaboration. Every sentence has this beautiful word, you know? Well, me and you have been on that path for many, many years. But you know what? You know, as as as Bernie Dallman would say, blessed, you know, we've been brought up in an environment that probably was schooling us in the wrong way to compete. And we've been there all along and we've been those shining lights. But every now and again, you know, someone's pouring a bucket of water cause they don't want to see them because their egos are at play. And and the systems at play.

Sesh [00:40:16] But I believe, Ari, that we're in for a huge shift.

Ari [00:40:23] Is we have to up our software. Right. And he would point to his head and say this virus of competition is the biggest upgrade in software to collaboration that we need. Correct.

Ari [00:40:40] Our buggy minds our buggy software, has a lot of viruses in it, right? Yes. Titian is the biggest one. Right. And we need to upgrade our software to one of collaboration so that we can work together in order to make the world a better place.

Sesh [00:40:59] Well, let's just take that point, Ari, for a second. Let's just reflect on this. Is it a mind? Collaborates.

Sesh [00:41:09] Or is it a hot. That receives and gives.

Sesh [00:41:17] The mind should be the road that we take, the path that we we go with understanding the person or the environment by using our senses to reflect.

Sesh [00:41:32] So your value exchange, if it comes from the perspective of a transaction from the mind, is never true. Is always fluid, is always corrupted. I hope that made sense.

Ari [00:41:49] Yeah. And it's an interesting perspective for sure.

Sesh [00:41:56] You can teach me all the processes and show me all the processes around collaboration. There are hundreds of them. There are thousands of strategic alliance directors globally. Partnership managers, right. Does the process make a relationship work?

Sesh [00:42:14] No. That's something that's the human.

Ari [00:42:20] Yeah, it gets stated that it doesn't make it work right there.

Sesh [00:42:25] It provides some things to look at and consider. To facilitate that.

Sesh [00:42:32] But really, what makes it work? Is the affinity of energy between two or more people?

Sesh [00:42:42] In its true sense.

Ari [00:42:47] Absolutely.

Sesh [00:42:49] And and, you know, when you come across, I mentioned that dream team. But when you have people who are giving that time fearlessly. Self, you know, without selfishness.

Sesh [00:43:04] Then.

Sesh [00:43:06] We'll find ourselves in a place where we can collaborate better because we can then give, serve and receive.

Ari [00:43:17] So you are of creating a little bit of a global revolution and, you know, upgrading some some of the systems that we use to collaborate and communicate and do events and so on. If you could think of one thing that would be the most meaningful for you. What is it that you need that would help propel you to that next stage of what you're looking for? What you're creating?

Sesh [00:43:58] Think for me personally, and I'm talking about myself personally. A legacy. That lasts. OK. Needs a shift.

Sesh [00:44:15] In totality.

Sesh [00:44:18] And so if there was one wish, if you were my genie in the bottle, Larry, if I was to put it that way, it would be that that I would cost the genie across the way in which we're educated. And the systems that are children.

Sesh [00:44:38] Having to deal with. The.

Sesh [00:44:43] Mandates that we find ourselves in, whether it's political, business, education. I believe very little is done that reflects today. This concept of value, this concept of collaboration, cooperation. The whole conscious aspect. I wish you know an area. Think of it this way. And again, I'm sure that all your listeners would identify with the following. And my statement goes like this.

Sesh [00:45:18] If only. I knew what I knew today. 20 or 30 years ago when we were starting. Our paths in adulthood. It's only. We knew. If only we believed. But instead, we've been going did.

Sesh [00:45:41] In two subjects and every case of which which unwisdom generating. Please tell me. How is it wisdom generating so my wish, Mr. Genie, would be the one wish I would have would be to take the essence. Of wisdom. Of consciousness and to create an uprising so that the legacy for tomorrow as a collective makes a difference. We will learn to collaborate earlier, not compete. Who can get round the track the fastest?

Ari [00:46:25] Live really close to Cape Canaveral. Wow. Go Beach, which is where I dream of Jeannie, came from serious.

Ari [00:46:34] So I'm going to do this with.

Ari [00:46:40] And I'm going to I'm going to grant your wish, because that's really what we're doing here. And especially for our kids. You know, one of the things I was I was listening to to somebody the other day and they said that we are the sum total of the beliefs that other people had for us. And the best thing we could do is eliminate all of those beliefs and start to figure out what we believe about ourselves. If I could make a school right, that would have a lasting impact, a legacy impact. It would be a school that really nourishs is the souls and the passions of our kid, of our kids instead of.

Ari [00:47:32] Just teaching them stuff.

Sesh [00:47:36] Yes, well, Ari, I want to share this with you.

Sesh [00:47:38] There is a huge a further opportunity that we have on which we should not miss.

Sesh [00:47:44] Which is that? The future. Can also communicate with us today. And there are some very gifted, talented souls, individuals who are young.

Sesh [00:48:01] Why do we feel that we can? We have to only relate to people who are our age group. OK. And so so my wish, the way in which we do that is to engage. And I share this with you. I held a summit and I this is a beautiful story because I fa often we may walk past people and take no notice. And I've come across a family called Ben Sounness from London, and I believe there's five children and each one of these children have been schooled, have been mentored by their mother and invite and people around them. And, you know, on this virtual summit, we had one of the youngest, one of the family members. And I'm sure he's not even in digital double digits yet. And he was talking. On the same platform with ambassadors, diplomats and leaders. And this was his conversation with. He said, one of the things I'm discovering is the value of WHY.

Sesh [00:49:19] Why am I here?

Sesh [00:49:24] What am I supposed to do with another question? But why? And all of that stemmed from his ability to connect with himself and his purpose. And it was, you know, absolutely amazing now everybody on this webinar was flawed.

Sesh [00:49:49] Because they you have this. Tiny bundle of joy and wisdom sharing. And he held his attention. And I didn't realize, but he's an ambassador. He also has scholarships for his university already set up. Right. Each one of them, you know. Well, I wish, I wish. I wish I had some of them. Imagine being able to be around people right to this day, it should there should be no vacuum.

Sesh [00:50:28] But we create those barriers, those layers. But actually now we don't have to and I think, you know, I read your your will your goal of creating that school and my desire of leaving a legacy which transcends back into the youth and the future leaders must be around. How do we bring them to the table? Without making them feel. They don't belong to the table. Just as you and I would enjoy eating our meal at the table with our sons and daughters. Is for that same proudness and happiness. Instead of the ego playing with the knife. And my knowledge of attack with the fork. Oh.

Sesh [00:51:32] The tools that we use are to embrace and I believe Ari. We can make that difference, whether it's one person that we bring to the table to have that conversation. That then propagates. That's how we make a difference. You need a traditional school, Ari.

Ari [00:51:56] No, it's not a tradition at all. It's not my school. By the way, this is actually an idea of one of your friends.

Ari [00:52:04] Tanya.

Ari [00:52:08] So was talking to her, I read her book. Yes.

Ari [00:52:11] And, you know, it has her idea for this school in it. But, you know, I teach my my son I have a six year old son, as you know, he's the most handsome thing on the planet. He looks like me, I've been told. And and I read him these books that I read when I was a kid called The Value Books. And the value books basically take one topic and then attach it to a historical human being that exemplified that value. So. Right. Integrity or we just did truth and trust, which was Koichi's this beautiful ease and how he never lied. And so they thought they they knew that they could trust him. And what happened when trust was taken out of the table because somebody lied. Was war. And, you know, it's a very powerful lesson on those two things. We did Kochi coaches. We did adventure with second UEA. We did Benjamin Franklin and Louis Pasteur. Amy. Right. Marie Curie. So we've we've done lots of different historical, you know, humans who exemplify a very specific value. And so when you're talking about values, I look at those books and I go, OK, I was really lucky to have found these books when I was a kid. And now to be able to read them and then discuss them.

Ari [00:53:51] So what did you learn useful to you to feel?

Ari [00:53:53] It's lesson what was the thing that really stood out for you. And, you know, how do you want to go about practicing these values? Right. I get to be that interactive with my son so that he knows that these are things I expect of him that I'd like for him to to aspire to become as having these values, bravery and respect and integrity and all those things. And he gets to learn what the consequences historically have been for the family. We have not participated in that. So I feel really blessed that I get to do that. And what I notice is if I go to a grocery store, for instance. I notice a lot of parents trying to control their finances and trying to make sure that they behave based on their own perception of what is good behavior. I do it as well, especially at a restaurant. You know, you have to have restaurant behavior. That being said, I've also watched a lot of parenting things online. And there's this one lady, I think she's an Indian woman who talks about. Not doing any of that kind of stuff. Not putting your perceptions and your rules on your kids because they're not yours. They're their own. Beings. And they're not owned by you just because you had them. Right. So it's a really fine balancing act.

Sesh [00:55:47] And I'm Ari, you know. And that's so, so beautiful to hear. And this comes back to.

Sesh [00:55:53] What we should be experienceing. At a very young age. Now, I didn't have any of that. Did you?

Sesh [00:56:07] Do any when you think of your people around you, do they ever talk about these sorts of wonderful experiences? An introduction to. These sorts of topics. And my point is that. Well, everybody can take, you know. A slightly different angle. And say, well, if my children are beings into it to themselves and they can express themselves freely. Then why can't we guide and ship?

Sesh [00:56:53] And encourage now.

Sesh [00:56:57] If you leave that too late with children. It doesn't become the norm.

Sesh [00:57:06] And as we know, the older you get, the harder it is to change because habits and psyche and ego. Playing havoc with us. And I love what you've just said, it's very, very beautiful here again. You know, can you be, Ari, the conduit? Can you bring families? Can you bring children? To share what you've just described. To make that difference, because, as you've just said. What you receive out of that?

Sesh [00:57:46] Is priceless.

Sesh [00:57:49] Having that discussion, seeing Gabriel's expressions. Seeing him when he's operating his confidence.

Sesh [00:58:02] No qualification. Can give you that sense of feeling, correct? That's right. But I guess I guess what we're saying, again, we've got something in common. Right. Maybe I'll calling them. And if you're listening, listen, it's. It's maybe your calling. Is to be that different. Take a step back. What could we do differently? That's going to make a difference for the for our children. For the people that are around us.

Sesh [00:58:38] And honestly, I've caught myself. You know, we dismiss so many things, we don't turn up half the time because we dismiss.

Sesh [00:58:48] Well, we can't dismiss our children. We should not.

Ari [00:58:56] We absolutely should not. So as I ask on all of these calls, three actionable steps. And I know we've gone over some, so maybe it will be a little recap. But I'd just like to cap off our conversations with this three actionable steps, things that people can actually begin to implement tomorrow. Today. In their lives so that they can activate their vision for a better world and create a new tomorrow.

Sesh [00:59:27] Thank you. Well, thank you, Ari. It's been a really wonderful. Interview. I think we both consent, some feel. What's happening here? And so my three points that I would give Ari are free. Does not it cost you a penny or a cent or a dime or a nickel or a dollar or a pound or a pound? So my advice would be.

Sesh [01:00:01] Is. Just listen to your conversation.

Sesh [01:00:09] Is your conversation enriching? Is it warm? Does it have friction?

Sesh [01:00:18] Are you coming from that place of trying to truly understand? So the first thing is. Checks and balances on our conversations. The second is. Is to do with self worth.

Sesh [01:00:35] I am.

Sesh [01:00:37] Is stronger than anything out there or any one out there. It's divine. And the third thing was third piece of advice I would give would be we are in this shift of conscious awakening, conscious uprising globally on many fronts. And it's an opportunity to express and be part of.

Sesh [01:01:12] I would ask you. To shift the paradigm shift by turning up.

Sesh [01:01:23] Don't just look at someone's podcast and say, oh, yeah. No, try listening to it.

Sesh [01:01:30] As you know, when we did game change, there were many people that turned up who'd least expect it to turn up. And right from LinkedIn to Facebook said it was one of the best decisions that they took, but they took that decision.

Sesh [01:01:47] Because they turned up very you know, we all suffer from not turning up by saying, oh, we'll come to it later. So by being present and being present in the moment allows you to turn.

Ari [01:02:04] That, again, friction, find the friction in your conversations, find the friction in your head conversations, your self conversations, as well as the conversations with others. And show up, show up, show up. It's really hard to make a difference in the world when you're hiding in your cave.

Sesh [01:02:29] So true.

Ari [01:02:30] You know, the greatest monks in the world have had to come out of the cave in order to talk about what they learned in the cave. So it's also true it's OK to retreat back into a cave. And trust me, I'm an introvert. So I am somebody who after this call, I'll be going into my cave for a few minutes in order to to rejuvenate. To process and so forth. But then I have to come back out of that cave. And I have to show up in the world. And I have to be an active part of it if I want to see the change that I, you know, would normally otherwise complain about. You know, that's one of one of the things that I like to say to people that I'm consulting is, OK, it's fine that you're complaining about what is. But then once you've processed all of the complaints and written them down in perfect detail, you can take that detail and turn it into an action list of what you want to change and then show up for those changes to become for you to be a part of making that difference and being the change that we want to see in the world. Right. And I've I've heard you say that a number of times, be the change, be the change, be the change that we want to see. Because if we're not showing up. The nothing that we say means anything. And that means also, frankly. And this is where I like to pick a little bit of fights, get loud. Silence is the bully's best friend. So you have to get loud if you want to stop the bully. And if all you're doing is going on social media and projecting your dissatisfaction with the world on social media, then you're causing part of that friction. And if we learn to take ourselves off of that reactive point of view. And really into why am I reacting and then how can I turn that around, like one of the things I love about when when I when I talk with you is that almost everything that you say is stated in the positive. You don't say don't run. You say walk with effort. Right. You see your you state everything in such a positive language. And it's a lesson that that I continually learn. Beautiful. And so stopping the reactive social media barrage and taking that step back and saying, what can I learn from this? And then how can I put this into a positive way and move somebody forward. That to me is is part of showing up and positivity powerfully and in your authentic egoless self. And so thank you so much, Sesh, for being here and sharing your wisdom with everyone. And just one last time. How can people get a hold of you if they need to your sesh at.

Sesh [01:05:45] So it's gamechangingsesh.com. Or if you just search sesh S E S H you commonness.

Sesh [01:05:51] Meet those very few with my name. And if you really want to search for me, you will.

Ari [01:06:00] Sounds good.

Sesh [01:06:02] Thank you so much. Also, we're running an event on the 19th of September.

Sesh [01:06:06] Pleased for you and your listeners. It is a game changing event. It has Alan Shelton and Larry Diamond and two other very, very powerful speakers with us. I can assure you that if anyone who is listening to this podcast today finds us something that strikes that chord.

Sesh [01:06:33] A court with them, you will enjoy our event, and I'm my I'm inviting you and your listeners to be part of that turn because you have you just never know what might happen. Thank you so much.

Ari [01:06:46] Show up. Thank you so much, Sash. And I am Ari Granitic. And this is Create a new Tomorrow podcast. Thank you.

Sesh [01:06:56] Thank you. Turning. Thank you, Ari. Thank you so much.

Ari [01:07:00] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, createanewtomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference.

Ari [01:07:23] I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out. And look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Elizabeth Kipps an author of The Way Through Chronic Pain Tools to Reclaim your Healing Power. A health facilitator in areas such as stress, chronic pain management, addiction recovery, meditation, yoga, ancestral clearing. She is well versed in healing arts. If there is no pain, there is no gain. 

To experience healing from within - mind-body and soul. 

Episode Highlights

Elizabeth [00:02:55] Specializing in chronic pain. I'm really focused all on all the things I do are focused on the chronic pain audience. There's a lot of us and most of us don't know even what that is. They don't we don't realize we have chronic pain, but we do.

Ari [00:13:02] We're getting agreed. OK. We're getting agreement. Good. So now imagine that that heat is producing an inflammatory response, which is then causing your nervous system to go huh. Something's going on here. What's going on? I better send some signals to some brain chemistry to start sending things to check that out. Immune response. All of a sudden, the immune response goes. There is some heat here, we got to cool this down. Let's do our thing to heal whatever's going on. So I'm bringing attention to a body part that has an issue, whether you knew about the issue or not. And now that heat is causing an inflammatory and a chemical response in the area. And this is how I began the process of bridging the gaps between science and science, medicine and woo woo alternative and a great breakdown.

Elizabeth [00:17:21] And there were 20 of us in the room to some just say you says, what are you doing to cause your pain? What are you doing to contribute to your pain? What are you doing? To contribute to the pain is how you put it. And that's what I said.

Elizabeth [00:20:58] I went and had the train, first training I could get to, and I became its ancestral clean plantation practitioner right out as fast as I could because it was so powerful. It was amazing, you know. Yeah. So words are powerful. Prayer is powerful. It's very specific. And and I could get into it, you know, on another time. But I do teach this stuff now, and it's amazing.

Ari [00:21:22] Absolutely. You know, one of the things that as a therapist that I studied a lot of is somatic responses to trauma and how the emotional trauma is stored in the body.

Ari [00:21:43] And I do a lot of work with. Emotional release through somatic trauma. So somatic therapy, so, you know, I know that you do as well.

Elizabeth [00:29:20] Oh, we have to do the work. Ari. We have to do our own work on it. I don't just do the work. I'm in the work. I do the work.

Ari [00:29:29] So this is, you know, for for other practitioners. And, you know, even if you're a person who has a family member or a friend who is going through stuff for the trauma, the trauma that the person who holds the trauma.

Ari [00:43:31] Yeah. No, absolutely. I'm a science geek. You'll you'll find me in a corner for fifteen hours researching scientific papers because I started with one and I said, oh, I don't understand this part. Let me go look at that. I don't understand this part. Let me go look at that. Oh, I don't understand this. Let me go look at it versus gone by and I don't know where I am or who I am or what I've done. All I know is I'm filled with all this new information that I could then take and put to the side and use for some really awesome podcast conversation.

Resources and Links

• https://elizabeth-kipp.com
• https://CreateANewTomorrow.com
• https://www.facebook.com/arigronich

Full Transcription

Ari&Elizabeth.mp3

Ari [00:00:01] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down.

Ari [00:00:50] I'm Ari Gronich and this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:03] Welcome to another episode of Create a New Tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich, and I have with me again Elizabeth Kipp. I had to talk to her longer and deeper because we just did a quick interview last time. And I was so intrigued with the things she was saying that I wanted you to hear them all. So, Elizabeth, welcome back. I'll give you a little bit of a of an introduction. You've been in the healing arts for most of your life on both sides. All right. You are you're certified and many forms of healing. You have a B.S. in science. You know, you bridge the gaps between the medical side, the AWU side and the alternative health side. And you do so in a way that is with such grace. So welcome. Thank you so much for coming back. And, you know, just give the audience a little bit of what you do. So, you know, just the technical. Here's what I do and here's why I do it.

Elizabeth [00:02:16] Thank you so much, Ari. And I appreciate the opportunity. I'm a health facilitator and I call myself that because I'm not doing healing. I'm really just kind of a guide because everyone is their own healer. You know, your greatest healer lives inside of you. That would be the one message that everybody could go away with if I had a TED talk. That would be the mantra I'd want to walk out with. Right. So certainly for your podcasts, you're your greatest healer. I'm the facilitator. So I call myself that. I am an addiction recovery. Yoga informed addiction recovery coach.

Elizabeth [00:02:55] Specializing in chronic pain. I'm really focused all on all the things I do are focused on the chronic pain audience. There's a lot of us and most of us don't know even what that is. They don't we don't realize we have chronic pain, but we do.

Elizabeth [00:03:13] It's hard to clear when we don't really know it, we're even ill.

Elizabeth [00:03:18] I teach yoga, which built from a trauma informed perspective to help people in chronic pain. And and I also do this thing called assisted clearing, which is of another modality which is very useful to help us clear patterns from the past, negative, unhealthy patterns from the past, be it our past in this lifetime or the lifetime of our ancestors.

Ari [00:03:48] So that is a it's a fascinating thing, you've done an ancestral clearing on me in the past. There's almost a year ago, actually. And. You know, it's funny because when we take genetic tests nowadays, we can see the expression of our genes. How they're being expressed into the world, the epigenetics and. When I did hear that, when when you facilitated the clearing with me, I then went back and did my genetic test again and it the expressions had shifted and changed. So this is where I like to bridge the gaps between the two. Because somebody will hear ancestral clearing. How can we clean clear what's going on?

Ari [00:04:39] Well, it's in your DNA, you know, it's in your genes. What was going on? One hundred, two hundred, three hundred years ago in your family tree is in your genes. And so we express those genes out. And.

Ari [00:04:57] And so taking the ancestral clearing to a whole new level of, you know, from from what people would consider to be woo woo to the science of it is there is a lot of science that says our genes can be reprogramed if we can clear out the traumas and pain. So when we talk a little bit about that.

Elizabeth [00:05:21] Sure. Yeah. Love to one of my favorite things to talk about.

Elizabeth [00:05:27] So your time at epigenetics and the way I really break the genetic part of it down is there's the hard wiring. We can use that analogy, skin color, hair color, eye color. Unless you've got a hair colors and or you've got, you know, contact lens, there's nothing going on. And then there's the soft wiring, which is things like whats might be controversial, some people, but but still haven't figured out a gene for alcoholism, for instance, or addiction.

Elizabeth [00:06:02] They found a predisposition.

Elizabeth [00:06:05] That's epigenetic, but how we relate to the environment. So we come in kind of like with this hard wiring and these switches on the outside, which is software, F.B., meaning outside on the gene that there's switches there on on off switches.

Elizabeth [00:06:22] And depending on what happens in the environment, depends on whether it's which is on or off. Sickle cell anemia is another good example. It's it's helpful in Africa, not so helpful in the United States. So it's just this environmental and this environmental thing. And I would challenge the audience. Now, I've been in this for a while, so. So bear with me. But I would challenge the audience to say to ask them, how do you think we get resilience built into the system? Trial and error over hundreds and hundreds of generations. Resilience is built into the system. All right. So that's a good thing. It's built in genetically. Everybody can kind of see that, right? And what happens with trauma that goes unresolved, with hurt and anger and resentment and the aloneness and grief? That gets baked into. So when we're born, we come in with the joys and the challenges of our ancestors. On a very real level, you know, it kind of sounds weird, but if you really think about it, what did they go through? I know you can. I know people will resonate with that. I'll give you an example how it turned out for me. Just a really quick one. Absolutely. My parents were both in were bored, too.

Elizabeth [00:08:01] My mom was a nurse and they in in England. And my dad was in the in the Pacific. And they both experienced trauma and they had no idea what to do with any of it because remember, the culture was deny and no pain. No gain. Right. Yeah.

Elizabeth [00:08:20] Yeah. And and so they carried the trauma because they didn't know what to do with the body. Keeps score. Right. Bessel Vander Kux work. The body keeps score is totally real. So they come back from the war. They get married, have two kids, my brother and I.

Elizabeth [00:08:38] I remember being four years old. And consciously asking myself what is happening here?

Elizabeth [00:08:46] I knew there was this dark shadow. And today we would call it the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about. Yeah, I could feel it. It was a heavy this heaviness, my brother. I could feel it. I didn't know what to call it. I didn't know what to do about it. But I felt it right. I didn't know about any of that until I actually had an experience of ancestor clearing. And. And I was able to release it. And I was like and I felt lighter. And I was like, oh, my goodness, this is amazing. Right.

Elizabeth [00:09:20] So I'm really I'm still amazed.

Elizabeth [00:09:22] I've acted in this work for six and a half years. I do it every day somewhere on the planet with somebody, you know, virtually in person, whatever. And it's still floors me.

Elizabeth [00:09:33] It's so beautiful how people can just drop their stuff. So, yeah, that's just a quick example.

Ari [00:09:39] Yeah. You know what? I love marrying the Woo with the science. And I'll give you a quick example of how I did that at the beginning of my career. I was 18 when I started going to school for becoming a therapist. And three months into my schooling. I had I was running the clinic and I thought, we need to have more people in our clinic. We need more more patients to see so that the students can get more experience. And our school backed up to three companies, major companies, Intel, Nike and Tektronix. This is in Beaverton, Oregon. And I said to myself, self, I think we should just take our clinic to them so they don't have to go anywhere. Let's just take the clinic to them. And I started three and unwittingly, unknowingly and, you know, whatever ing I, I started three of the first corporate wellness programs in the country. Awesome. And those programs are still alive. I don't know to what degree at this point. They're still alive, but they're still alive. Those companies still have them. But the thing was interesting is because are engineering companies, two of them, somebody a Tektronix asked me because I was I kept they kept walking by me with these motherboards that had been recently tripled tested. And they'd walk by me with them. And all of a sudden on their last quality control test, they would not be working. And the only thing that they could see different was that they walked by me. And so they ended up having to plug me into their ground, both at my ankle and my wrist. So while I was working, I was plugged in. And somebody asked me, one of the engineers who was in his mid 50s, I would imagine. And he asked me, what is this Reiki thing that you're doing? And I thought about it for a minute because I knew that he wouldn't understand if I described it to him the way my teacher described it to me. And so I thought about it for a second and I said, well. We know that the Palms produce infrared heat. Right. This is the the majority of the wavelength that we can measure is an infrared wavelength. And we produce more of it in our hands and our palms than anywhere else on our body. I said we can measure this. Right. This is this is a measurable thing. And the engineer said, yes, that we can we can measure the wavelength. I said, OK. So we also know that infrared wavelengths penetrate the body. Two to three inches. Yes, we know that. OK, got that. OK. So if I put my hand near your body in a very specific place in organ, for instance, and I hold it up, I'm still admitting that infrared wavelength. Correct. Yes. OK. So we got agreement.

Ari [00:13:02] We're getting agreed. OK. We're getting agreement. Good. So now imagine that that heat is producing an inflammatory response, which is then causing your nervous system to go huh. Something's going on here. What's going on? I better send some signals to some brain chemistry to start sending things to check that out. Immune response. All of a sudden, the immune response goes. There is some heat here, we got to cool this down. Let's do our thing to heal whatever's going on. So I'm bringing attention to a body part that has an issue, whether you knew about the issue or not. And now that heat is causing an inflammatory and a chemical response in the area. And this is how I began the process of bridging the gaps between science and science, medicine and woo woo alternative and a great breakdown.

Elizabeth [00:14:01] That's a great breakdown.

Ari [00:14:03] I thought pretty good, you know, and the belief started to get there, and so if you're if you're in the audience and you're going, well, this is all just woo woo. Well, it's not. Nothing operates inside of a vacuum except for scientific lab studies because they isolate components, as you were saying before, they isolate things. Right. And so there's an entire world of healing. So tell us a little bit about four for you, how you got into your. You're a science person and you were having issues and then all of a sudden you go to somebody and he says there may be a better way. And you were like, oh. So tell us a little bit about that.

Elizabeth [00:14:50] I was that what you might call a Sacred Bottom? I had surrendered just like I knew that if I was going to continue taking the opiates and the benzodiazepines that they had prescribed me, that I was going to die.

Elizabeth [00:15:02] So and I and I and my life with them was, you know, I had was having panic attacks. I was sick all the time. I couldn't eat. I would just love life. Quality of life was was was was was was unacceptable.

Elizabeth [00:15:20] Dr Peter Prescott is pain management program and. He knew he knew chronic pain is why he was trained. So he really knew he he knew kind of going in what was going on with me more than I did. Actually, I was. It was surprising. And anyway, he helped me detox off the medication. And I'll tell you kind of a little bit of what happened in there. I walked into the room. I was wheeled into the room because I was so sick, I detoxed off that bed. I was detoxing for 10 days off that medication, and I was very weak from that. So I was in a wheelchair and they wheeled me into the room. There's 20 other patients just like me. I didn't even know there were 20 other people that had. They were just complicated. Been in this much pain. And all this time I didn't even know that. So that was cool just to see that, you know. But I didn't know who they were. And I'm sitting there minding my own business, trying to just keep it cool and just keep myself together in the room. Dr. Peter says, don't judge the moment. And I will tell you what happened in my head. I didn't say it out loud, is what the conversation in my head. Dude, I'm just sitting here minding my own business, I'm not judging anything. And it was kind of like, how dare you? So you can see my hackles were up right away in defense. Right. And I knew he I knew he had the floor and I knew he was the doctor in the room that I had to listen. And I was there. Listen to him. So, you know, but I. I had that attitude, you know, within three minutes, I realized he was talking about my pain. Don't judge your pain. Right. Don't judge the moment. And I'm like, oh, my God, I've been judging. My pain is bad my whole life. No wonder I'm in chronic pain. Right. And then he says.

Elizabeth [00:17:13] And to ask a chronic pain patient, this question takes a lot of guts, man.

Elizabeth [00:17:21] And there were 20 of us in the room to some just say you says, what are you doing to cause your pain? What are you doing to contribute to your pain? What are you doing? To contribute to the pain is how you put it. And that's what I said.

Elizabeth [00:17:42] There were like five words for me, because my my perspective at that point was it's happening to me. I'm the victim, right? And he was like, you know, this is not all about that. There's our behaviors are driving our biology. You know, no doctor ever said that to me.

Elizabeth [00:18:11] And and I because he'd already proven himself to me with don't judge the moment I listen to the next one. I didn't like it, but I listened to it and I started to cause I already realized I'd been judging my pain.

Elizabeth [00:18:26] So I knew I was contributing to my pain, at least by judging. Right. So I learned a lot about about from him. About what I was doing to contribute to my own pain. And I wrote right about that in the book because it's so important. The other thing that happened was, was John Newton walked in. He was working and in pain management at that point. He walks in the room and he hands out this piece of paper and it's in English and it's just one piece of paper. And I knew about power words in Sanskrit. I was aware of that.

Elizabeth [00:19:02] I didn't know so much about English power words other than NO the kind of stuff I didn't know anyway.

Elizabeth [00:19:09] So it's an English. He says to everybody, what's your pain level zero to 10? You know, in intensity. And everybody in the room is like eight to 20 is the number they gave. Right. And mind sitting entity. My gut pain was terrible at that point.

[00:19:26] And.

[00:19:28] You said, I want you to read this silently. And so we were started reading it silently. I can halfway down the page and I felt the room shift. Energetically, I felt something change in the room. And unlike what just happened, and I thought and I thought in my head, I thought, Elizabeth, you're detoxing. You just imagined that, you know, and. Right. I didn't trust my own experience. And then I felt my pain start to shift. And it went from like an eight to a two. And I'm like, well, I know that's real. And then by then we were finished reading the prayer.

Elizabeth [00:20:09] It was a prayer in English. Very specific.

Elizabeth [00:20:14] And I've never seen anything like this before. So I had my science hat on and I'm observing and noticing and feeling and all at the same time. And he says John says, what's everybody's pain level zero to 10. And everybody's eight and below.

Ari [00:20:29] Wow.

Elizabeth [00:20:30] I was like, oh, my goodness. And this is the convent and I didn't say a word, but this is the conversation in my head. What just happened here? I know something happened.

Elizabeth [00:20:41] I want to know what it is. Is it measurable? Can he can be duplicated?

Elizabeth [00:20:46] And does he teach it. Really fast? And the answer to all those things was yes.

Elizabeth [00:20:55] And so when I got out of treatment.

Elizabeth [00:20:58] I went and had the train, first training I could get to, and I became its ancestral clean plantation practitioner right out as fast as I could because it was so powerful. It was amazing, you know. Yeah. So words are powerful. Prayer is powerful. It's very specific. And and I could get into it, you know, on another time. But I do teach this stuff now, and it's amazing.

Ari [00:21:22] Absolutely. You know, one of the things that as a therapist that I studied a lot of is somatic responses to trauma and how the emotional trauma is stored in the body.

Ari [00:21:43] And I do a lot of work with. Emotional release through somatic trauma. So somatic therapy, so, you know, I know that you do as well.

Ari [00:21:57] Some of some of that kind of thing and have that philosophy. So tell me a little bit about your experience with people who have massive emotional traumas and how quickly they can clear. Using sematic methods of therapy vs. talk therapy. And it's not time to make talk therapy. Wrong. It's just not as quite as optimal in my in my experience or view. Having done it. For hundreds of hours. As the sematic therapies.

Elizabeth [00:22:41] Well, that's a great question. And I will just say here that as part of the ancestral clearing process is a present saying to sensation. So hugely important. So it's it's this sweet blend. There's word medicine. We call I call word medicine. And and then there's there's presence that the client's presence in themselves to the body. They have to be able to do that if you can't be present. You don't you get help, but you don't get as much of an effect. And there are some people who I've had some clients who are are so affected by trauma, they can't actually be in the present moment. So they're there. They are shifted. They get some help, but they don't shift a lot. How fast somebody can can can shift in from a lot of trauma just like that. And so if it comes off in layer's. It really depends on who the person is and what the circumstances. The thing is, is that it's all possible.

Elizabeth [00:23:49] So I it's a little bit of a loaded question because it's not that everybody's a little bit different, which I think your experience probably is, too.

Ari [00:23:58] And I ask it in a loaded way, because, as you know, you know, I came to you to do some clearing of some emotional traumas. And, you know, I always feel like there are people that make it easier.

Ari [00:24:20] There are therapists that can make it easier and therapists that can make it more difficult. And as a therapist, the thing that made what you were doing so much easier for me was how present you were with my pain.

Ari [00:24:39] And. And not trying to fix, but rather continually stay present, nonjudgmental about the pain that I was in. And, you know, I'm sitting here, I always like you judge the crap out of my trauma's and out of my pain. Right. I was raped when I was three years old that I still judge myself for that. What was I putting off? That would cause me to be in that situation. I was three, you know, but I still I want to take responsibility. And so I never learned necessarily how to take that responsibility and not be in blame. And there's a lot of people that are in the same kind of positions with the same kind of traumas, rapes, molestations, sexual traumas, as well as physical trauma and emotional being bullied. You know, that was a trauma. And I always judged myself harder than I would judge any. I'm so present with my clients. Right. And so able to be in their pain, because I've experienced that level of pain that you were able to be present with my pain, without the judgment, without the blame, without the what? Who knows? What are you doing to contribute, but not as a blame factor. So, you know, let's kind of delve deep into that.

Elizabeth [00:26:14] I would like to say thank you for the for noticing all that, because that's a that's kind of. It's a it's it's something that we really try and curry to really cultivate that I actually have a practice because I you'll probably have some health practitioners on on here. And this might be helpful for them. I actually have a practice that I use that helps me in that space. It's very simple. But I actually practice it when it's not simple. So that I can really do it when it with the clients. It's really just being super present. Some of your listeners may know it as equanimity. Where you just sit super still and whatever comes into your sensory field, you notice and you just it just comes in and goes out. You're you're just taking stock. You're just noticing, that's all. And it's it's a skill. Here's where it gets hard. I have a I have a hair trigger striped startle response. You know, just because of my own past trauma. So when I'm in that practice and a police siren comes by rumor, right? You know, I do this. I'm judging the moment. I'm reacting. Right. So the practice is to come back to neutrality and let it pass through. So.

Elizabeth [00:27:49] I used to, I used to I used to go to sleep with crickets and owls and frogs and stuff. Right. And but I left that life a few years back, and I and I live in an apartment and right outside my bedroom window are for heating and cooling systems for the whole building. So when I go to sleep at night, it's like, you're right.

Elizabeth [00:28:09] That's when I first got there. I was like, how am I supposed to sleep here?

Elizabeth [00:28:15] And I'm like, Elizabeth, do your practice? This is the perfect time to do your practice. So I, you know, noticed I was being reactive and I came to neutral and I, you know. And so that's my I of course, I don't even notice them anymore. But the idea is to practice with something where you're reactive and bring yourself back to.

Elizabeth [00:28:36] This pause blank space and then you can sit opposite somebody.

Elizabeth [00:28:44] Absolutely blank. I mean, your your the thing is, I feel it, but it doesn't stay in. It just it moves through. It's not mine. We're just helping. We're just in. I'm just in a position where where I'm helping you, guiding you, the client to process their own stuff. That's all. Yes.

Ari [00:29:05] But it's not that that's all because I've been to a lot of therapists and most of them get uncomfortable. With my pain, because my pain triggers their pain. Right.

Elizabeth [00:29:20] Oh, we have to do the work. Ari. We have to do our own work on it. I don't just do the work. I'm in the work. I do the work.

Ari [00:29:29] So this is, you know, for for other practitioners. And, you know, even if you're a person who has a family member or a friend who is going through stuff for the trauma, the trauma that the person who holds the trauma.

Ari [00:29:49] Saying to them things like, well, you shouldn't be depressed, you've got a great life.

Ari [00:29:55] Things like, you know, what are you complaining about, look at what you've got. You're adding to the problem.

Elizabeth [00:30:04] Oh, yeah.

Ari [00:30:05] If you're able to sit with them in your uncomfort with their pain. The result that you'll gain from just sitting in that space with them and not trying to fix them and just being.

Ari [00:30:24] Just being present with them is going to offer them so much more, resulted in result benefit than the possibility of a fix. Right. And so, you know, we as a as a population kind of have to get over ourselves and say. You know, this is uncomfortable, your pain is really uncomfortable for me, but I take you know, I listen to a lot of therapists and they'll say, you got to get rid of toxic people out of your life. And I think nobody is a toxic person.

Ari [00:31:04] People have maybe suboptimal beliefs or suboptimal results in ways of being. But they are not inherently toxic. The uncomfort ability that people feel within their own cells causes them to want to and try to fix other people. When, as you said at the very beginning of this, you are a facilitator, not the healer. You just are there facilitating their own healing in themselves. And the idea is you've done enough work on yourself to be comfortable in with somebody else's pain without taking it on yourself. That's the other lesson. You don't have to take on their pain just because you're sitting with them in it.

Elizabeth [00:31:57] That's that's true. And I would add as a caveat to that. I'm not judging discomfort is bad. I'm just noticing that it's their.

Elizabeth [00:32:12] Because I am you know, I do feel we're all, you know, where people say, oh, I'm an airhead. Well, you know what? Humans are empathic. That's our nature.

Elizabeth [00:32:21] Some of us are just more awake than others. You know, some of us are just more awake than others, that's all. So that's I'm just kind of putting that out there.

Elizabeth [00:32:33] It's just an.

Elizabeth [00:32:35] It's just important, too. Oh, I'm feeling discomfort. And that's OK. I'm not. I'm just noticing. And that's very powerful. That's going ducted. Don't judge the moment. That's that's it right there. So I'm feeling discomfort and it's OK. And I'll go take it right back to another other thing nobody said when I was growing up. Pain is part of healing.

Elizabeth [00:33:04] That's not the way I grew up. Every time a child hurt themselves or gotten sick, the adults rushed in to like, you know, fix the situation as soon as possible. Stop the crying. Stop the pain. You know, fast as possible. It was just this big emergency around all of it.

Elizabeth [00:33:22] If I got a cold, I got in trouble because I had a cold and. And I would be put to bed and then the doctor would be called and we would doctor's orders. And the doctor was very nice.

Elizabeth [00:33:31] But it was there was all this energy around it, you know, this intense. We have to make it stop kind of stuff. Nobody ever just said to me pain is part of healing.

[00:33:42] And yet, you know, when we break a bone, it hurts for a while until it's healed. It's part of the healing. So not judging. And I would say, Ari, and you may have noticed this yourself. When a practitioner sits across from a client and the client is healing and they're just present and they're, you know, it's like we're talking about it's not sticking your feeling. But it's not sticking in there, just present. The practitioner and the client both get healed.

Elizabeth [00:34:14] It's that kind of space.

Ari [00:34:16] Yeah, absolutely. To tell us a little bit about go off subject of that subject for a second and come to your book The Way Through Chronic Pain. And what are some of the tools that you have put into that book to reclaim your own personal healing power?

Elizabeth [00:34:42] Well, what is where's the responsibility lie for our healing? You know, so so this is the way I I put it. I give 20 percent of the responsibility for my healing to all the other health care practitioners. All health care practitioners out there, doctors, nurses, physical therapists, alternative healers, all of them, 20 percent. The other eight percent mean God, higher power.

Elizabeth [00:35:14] You know, cosmic energy, source, energy, whatever you want to call it. There's something that created all this stuff. Whatever you want to name it really doesn't matter to me. We've been arguing about it for like thousands of years, what to call this thing. But it hits. It's something, you know, me, and.

Elizabeth [00:35:29] That thing, 80 percent. So really important that doctors can set a bone. They can't tell the body how to heal. Something else is at play there. We need to respect that so we follow doctor's orders. That's part of the 20 percent, right? And that's they give the orders. Then it's part of the 80 percent of mine is following doctor's orders. And then also following my own inner inner knowing about it. So I don't know if then insisted. Well, that's one two right there.

Ari [00:36:03] Yeah, that's one of the tools and the fact that that I'm not a a religious human being. I've studied way too many religions, too, to ever follow anyone. But I am a very spiritual human, human being. And, you know, the world doesn't make sense without some kind of an organizational planner, you can call it that. It's an organizational planner that created the organization of the universe. I definitely have, have listened to that advice and. The way that I do some of that and I'll just go by my tool and then I'll. Well, we'll go into some of your other tools is the way that I do that for me is a lot of mirror work and by mirror work, I am staring at myself alone in the mirror. And I actually have one that I could pull up and I could lay in bed and look at it too. So I don't have to just be in a bathroom or, you know, a big mirror in some other place. I could be comfortable, but I will get that mirror and I'll look into my eyes until I start falling in love with myself. And through that, I go through all the things that I don't love about myself. Right. Whether it's, you know, the colors of my cheeks that always have seemed a little too rosy for me or, you know, the little tags or moles or wrinkles that I'm starting to develop.

Ari [00:37:47] I go through what are all the things that are blocking me from being the one for me?

Ari [00:37:55] And to me, when I look in my eyes, I can see the universe. You know, this is a tool that I've used a lot over the last year, year and a half, as I've been recovering from a major personal trauma. And it's one of the tools that I've used for years. But that is for me and I hope that, you know, I tell I tell my clients, I tell everybody who I see get in the mirror and do the work because that's the 80 percent. And then go to somebody. You don't have to do everything alone. But you're never alone when you're with yourself and God and the universe and spirit. And so, you know, it's the scariest thing a person can do, I believe. More scary than being attacked. More scary than going to war. Is. Looking in that mirror for the depth of your soul. And being OK with who you are.

Elizabeth [00:39:00] I love that story around that, by the way. I love that's a very powerful exercise and I'm really glad you brought it in.

Elizabeth [00:39:08] Though I was given an assignment to look in the mirror, it was part of an overall course that I had and he would bring in these lovely she kind of love missions and he would bring these love missions and. It's Tommy Resonantly Recovery 2.0 is his coach coaching Macovei coaching. Amazing guy. So. He brings in this look in the mirror exercise, and I'm like, Tommy, give me another assignment. I'll just get milk. Not that one. So I want to in the next one. And the thing is, I'm enough of an overachiever to like that kind of thing would bug me. And I'm very serious about my healing, looking away. As somebody who's trying to heal. Is we do that, our Aperol looking away.

Elizabeth [00:39:54] That's what we're trying to get over. Looking away stuff, right? So I'm like, OK. Come on, Elizabeth, let's get let's get to it, you know? And I'm like, what is the problem? You know, I was sitting there. What's the problem? I don't know. I just don't want to do it. Whenever I look in the mirror, I pull myself together. I'm like, we're going to do this, you know? And I look in the mirror and I can't hold my own gaze. And I'm like, what is going on here?

Elizabeth [00:40:26] And here I ask this question. Elizabeth, you're looking at yourself.

Elizabeth [00:40:31] What could possibly go wrong, you know? All right.

Elizabeth [00:40:39] Because I was like I was so sure the other shoe was going to fall and something was going to happen. I just I was in that state, you know, I was in like I'm in so much trouble. I'm im threatened.

Elizabeth [00:40:50] There's nothing threatening about that, but my nervous system was certain that it was threatened. That was an exercise where I had to retrain the brain. Right. We have old patterns, right? Is that running our program and we need to retrain. So I took that. Three minutes. 40 days. Every day. Hold the gaze. See what happens. I don't know how much you know, how long you did it, but my practice is three minutes every day, 40 days. And it was amazing. And I did learn to love myself.

Elizabeth [00:41:22] And I got over all my stuff around. I'm not enough. You don't like the way I look at all this.

Elizabeth [00:41:27] Whenever a thousand things,.

Ari [00:41:29] That whole thing, I'm not enough that that is a very common expression and experience of humanity.

Elizabeth [00:41:39] It's also very old. We come by it honestly right now.

Ari [00:41:43] Thats what I'm saying it's one of the fundamental flaws in the human design. Is this thing that we're not enough. And when we think we are, we must be a narcissist or a sociopath. Right?

Elizabeth [00:41:59] Well, I would take it back to the biology here for me, and I'd like to do that. I'd like to bring it down to like, well, how do we even get this way when you look at it in terms of evolution? How could this how could this thing have been helpful to us?

Elizabeth [00:42:13] Remember, were the way can we think it works anyway? We want to survive long enough to be able to pass our genes forward into the next generation. So we were built to survive. Not so much to thrive. For us to do this work that we're doing that's thriving. And that's we're actually evolving our programing. So why would that be helpful for us? That that I'm not enough? Because it helps keep us safe. We're always looking for the threat. Now that that may be, you know, keep up the stress us out and stuff, but we're made for that. You know, we're made for the stress. I just think we die young when we're like that.

Elizabeth [00:42:57] But I always like to take it back to the biology and say, how is this serving from a biological point of view so that I understand my own programing. You know, that's the value of me as a as a clinician anyway. I'm not really I can't. I don't have, like, a masters in social work or anything. I can't hold myself, but I. But I am I do I do this beautiful coaching practitioner work and I and I bring the science in because it's really important that we understand the sort. The psychology is important too. But that hard wiring is important too.

Ari [00:43:31] Yeah. No, absolutely. I'm a science geek. You'll you'll find me in a corner for fifteen hours researching scientific papers because I started with one and I said, oh, I don't understand this part. Let me go look at that. I don't understand this part. Let me go look at that. Oh, I don't understand this. Let me go look at it versus gone by and I don't know where I am or who I am or what I've done. All I know is I'm filled with all this new information that I could then take and put to the side and use for some really awesome podcast conversation.

Elizabeth [00:44:12] Well, it's a it does take time to integrate all that stuff. But you know what? If you've taken all that time, you'll integrate it into your healing work and it'll be beautiful. People benefit.

Ari [00:44:21] Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, that's been something I've been really blessed to be able to do, is look at a research paper and understand it and go, OK. Now, how does this apply in life? How does this apply to my clients? How does this apply to, you know, anywhere that I needed to to apply it to? And just answer your question. I did. As many hours at a time as was required, so during during this last couple of years, car accidents and divorce and different things that I was going through, I. I spent. Probably a good 100 hours in front of the mirror, sometimes in a row, three, four hours in a row in front of the mirror, screaming, wailing, crying in a ball fetal position. Just, you know, releasing as much as I could possibly release in that moment. Until the next moment. Until the next moment. Until the next moment. And at one point I've had I'm going to preface this. I've had 28 friends in my life that were close friends that have killed themselves. And wow, my first attempt at killing myself, I was nine. Brother has attempted. I mean, this is an ongoing it's always been in the background of of my life. And at this point. I was staring in the mirror and I just said, either fucking do it and do it now or shut the hell up. I don't want to hear this talk ever again from you. And I'm looking at myself in the mirror, and I basically gave myself a challenge and an ultimatum. Either do it. Or shut up about it and get it out of your system. And I don't recommend that for people in that way. But you get the kind of feeling of where I was at with this mirror work was if you are so weak in yourself. And this was you know, again, I'm somebody who's I consider myself very strong. I've lived through a lot of trauma, a lot of multitudes of different kinds of traumas and in my opinion, come out on the better side. But if what you want to do is end every good thing that you've ever done in this world, then be weak and take the easy way out and do it now, because otherwise we're going to get into some hard stuff and the next life and we're gonna go through all of it now. And that was another. Realm of three plus hours of screaming and crying before there's almost an eight hour day work day of of screaming and crying in the mirror until I was like, OK, I have too much good to offer this world. To lose hope in the moment because of a thought or a situation. And that was a real turning point for me in in my recovery of the of that trauma. That doesn't mean it's gone. It just means that it is no longer the predominant force.

Ari [00:48:08] That is ruling my life. And so that could be the power of that mirror work. And I just wanted to answer you because you asked me, you know, about the hours, that amount of time I would spend, and it wasn't 40 days straight. There's probably a good year straight. And it was. In some cases, extremely intense and powerful. And hard, and it was nothing I would want anybody to witness necessarily, except for to know that what is possible for them if they're in that place and, you know, we're in this weird life in world that we are in right now. And I just saw another post from a friend of mine that a 16 year old boy committed suicide because of the isolation that we're in. And, you know, I. I wish for people. To have that way through their chronic pain, both physical and emotional, mental, spiritual. And so we'll get back to some more tools that you have. I just wanted to express that to you, that some of that was after and some of it was before you and I worked together, so.

Elizabeth [00:49:32] Hopefully, we were able to get you to a deeper layer. You know, because a lot of that stuff, if you're not if it's not yours, the charity we release, then, you know, then the rest is. What you're left with and my experiences is that we're always working on the current layer. It's the work is there. It's there's no there's no there there. It's only here.

Elizabeth [00:49:58] What's here?

Elizabeth [00:50:01] Which is another tool, by the way, that's being present.

Ari [00:50:05] The here and now?

Elizabeth [00:50:06] Yeah. Yeah, I would also say because people sidestep it. The presence is very important and so is the breath. It's like they'll say to me, it can't be that simple. And I'm like, yeah, it can. Your judgment. It can't be that simple. It's blocking blocking the the process here. Yes. It can be that simple. It's just that this is not the way we learned. I mean, you know, I was like for me it was like, why didn't I learn this in like first grade or prekindergarten? Why is it this is so basic? You know, you would think. Right. Just conscious, breathing, just long, deep. I mean, I just bunch of different ways you can breathe. And I talked about him in the book. But just long. Even inhale. Exhale. Is huge. Most of us are shallow breathers and, you know, this the the alveoli, which are the the parts of the lung that actually are where the gaseous exchange takes place, the oxygen in and the CO2 out there. Most of them are at the base of the lung. So we're shallow breathing into just the upper part of the lung. And we wonder. And so we were getting this. The cells are not getting oxygen. You're getting a buildup of CO2 and other toxins that are coming out of the system into the lung that are not being exhaled properly. And we get brain fog and we feel ungrounded and we wonder what happened and what happened is we're not breathing correctly and we you know, that's why, you know, you just stop and we might even be a little bit anxious and you just stop and long, deep breath breathing nice, long exhale and then start that deep breathing and seven or eight of those long, deep breaths, you're gonna be a different person.

Ari [00:52:03] You know, because you're doing a rescue, that the oxygen cells are getting fully oxygenated and you're releasing all that toxins build up in the base of the lung. You know, you're getting the system to work and we work again. We do have a body that needs attention mind.

Ari [00:52:21] Absolutely. You know, one of the things that I that I used to tell corporation, I still tell corporations all the time when I when I would do wellness protocols is you have to get your people up out of there, see at least two to three times an hour. And the reason I like, let's say the anatomy, we're Sitting bent. Right. And so we're pushing our lungs and our diaphragm up into our lungs. So if you take a deep breath, you can take a really deep breath while you're sitting and you'll feel how much oxygen you can pull in. And then if you stand up and take another deep breath, you'll feel it's almost double the amount of air you can pull in. And just as a natural breath, let alone taking a deep breath. And so if you're not getting up, you're going to get that brain fog that you just mentioned. And you're not going to have the oxygen exchange. And the oxygen exchange is what delivers nutrients to the cells. And so if you're eating food, even healthy food and not breathing, those nutrients are not going to make their ways to the cells they call lungs in Chinese medicine.

Ari [00:53:41] The breath of life because you're breathing. Enjoy your, you know, exuberance, acceleration. You know, it's all these words have to do with breath and lungs. And so learning to breathe properly, which sounds really funny to probably some of the listeners, right? Learning to breathe properly is a new thing for this side of the world. It's not a new thing for that side of it. You know, the Asian cultures. They do a lot of things around breath. The Indian cultures, Native American cultures, as well as India, Indian cultures. Right. But that is it's so important. And I really appreciate you bringing that up. That breath is so important. And, you know, you've heard it. You've heard it. People. You have heard it. Take 10 deep breaths. So when you're really angry, it's, you know, before you before you explode on the person that you're angry with. Right. Get road rage. Take ten deep breaths first and then see how you feel.

Elizabeth [00:54:51] Yes. And I would encourage. Beautifully said. And I would encourage everyone to breathe diagrammatically rather than paradoxically, which is when you inhale, fill the belly and when you exhale, push the arm with your abdominal muscles versus I used to breathe.

Elizabeth [00:55:09] Paradoxically, my abdomen would come in when I breathe and it would go out when I exhale. So, you know, just make sure that your belly is a you're filling your belly and your diaphragm is being filled, your belly is being feel on the inhale and then you use those abdominal muscles to help push that ear out. That's the way you breathe. Take ten of those and see what happens.

Ari [00:55:31] Absolutely. Just help your mental state. That that's going to help your organs, actually, because when you breathe, that's a you're literally squeezing those organs, kind of like giving them a massage, really does them to detoxify and work better as well.

Elizabeth [00:55:49] So. Right. Yeah.

Ari [00:55:51] Talking to you. Thank you. Get more tools.

Elizabeth [00:55:54] Well, I we've just come into movement. Body wants to move. I like any idea, you know, any movements. Good. And walking in nature. So walking. It's important like a lot more than we do. Sitting is not optimal. We're not really animals that are evolutionary. We're not made to sit and hard on. So us.

Elizabeth [00:56:19] So we need to. Which is this muscle that goes from the way up into the spine and in part of the diaphragm down into the leg. And it needs to be stretched.

Elizabeth [00:56:31] Right. So we get hunched over because the sore as this is short and it causes all kinds of health problems. And I know you know about that.

Ari [00:56:37] Oh, yeah.

Elizabeth [00:56:40] So movement. So she gone Taichi. I do yoga. I happen to like you know, I like yoga. And I like could restyle yoga because it's very good for cutting through are bad behaviors are unhealthy, not bad. Unhealthy behaviors is very good. It kind of cutting that program and helping us build new ones. It's very fast. But all the postures of hopping yoga are within kundalini yoga.

Elizabeth [00:57:05] Songhai, do a little bit of Ashtanga yen, you know, kind of a nice tool kit of that yoga is really just all about. For the listeners. There's 80 different isomers postures in yoga. The idea is to find a comfortable seat in one of them. Just one.

Elizabeth [00:57:25] So it's not like we have to do all these flusters, we just want to be able to succeed. We can do one well. It's also very good for clearing trauma. Not good Kundalini. I teach Kundalini. But I teach some other kind of yassa type yoga. It helps it helps the body release. And it's done very carefully so that we're actually working on parts of the body that we know. Hold stuff. And we. We help you. We help you stay there just long enough so that it actually release and you'll feel better. It's pretty cool. And we also work on the vagus nerve. A lot of that that the breathing, the chanting and some of the Pasha's will work on. We'll work on the vagus nerve to Tone, it too, which gets completely dysregulated when it's when it's in chronic pain and in trauma.

Elizabeth [00:58:17] It just. It's just doesn't know what to do.

Ari [00:58:21] And you know that I was talking to to Dr. Joe Esposito on another episode and he started talking about the vagus nerve as relates to the blood brain barrier and the nervous system and how it attaches, you know, gut to brain. There's such a thing in the nervous system that.

Ari [00:58:45] If you are able to calm that system and go from the sympathetic to the parasympathetic and partially the breathing that you were just mentioning helps with that process for the vagus nerve. All of a sudden, your thoughts become more clear, the traumas. Don't become obstacles or they're not paralyzing obstacles. They're just a challenge for you to get around. And it completely can change your perspective on the world. And, you know, we're going to end this call because we we've been talking a long time. And I could talk to you probably for another two or five hours. But I want people to walk away from listening to these conversations that we're having and have actionable things that they can do to shift the perspectives of the world. And right now, the perspectives of the world are really defined in extremes.

Ari [00:59:58] Extreme belief on one side or extreme belief on another side? And when I have found that I'm able to calm my system through breath. Pain goes away, but also my perceived notion of the obstacles tend to go away and the extremes become less extreme. And I'm more balanced in my thinking and I can have nuanced thought. Critical thinking, common sense comes back, right?

Ari [01:00:36] And we have been media and social media and media, Ed, into the state of adrenal fatigue, where we're being traumatized by what we watch and what we listen to every second that we watch that TV or we go on to that Facebook or we listen to the echo chamber we're in.

Ari [01:00:57] And so. Normally, I ask you and I'm going to ask you as well. But what can you do? Actionable steps that you can do to shift and change your personal world. And one of them is get off to social media more often and into the garden, into nature, into a place of peace and calm, where you can allow yourself. The experience of nothingness so that your brain and your adrenal glands can relax and then you can actually start asking yourself questions. That. Are more about the optimization of your life rather than the reaction to the events going on in your life. So that's my. One actionable step that you can take right now. Elizabeth, what kinds of things? I know we've gone over a lot of tools, but if somebody were were to be listening to this and they're to take away. One, two, three things that are actionable steps that they can do immediately that would have the most impact on them. What would those things be?

Elizabeth [01:02:23] Well, I would you know, again, don't judge the moment, which is in these days is kind of tricky. It's a practice. And also the breath cannot be underestimated. You talked about being in extremes, the breath is the bridge. To neutral. So we're in, this bipolar area, and we want a triangle, so we're we have a foundation. We don't have a foundation where we've got this bipolar thing, but when we have a third position, we have stability. The way to get there is to bring in the breath. You just you just talked about how that works. It gets us to neutral. It takes the brake vagus nerve. It takes it out out of the threat system, it helps calm the body. It works mind, body and soul. So profound. And the other thing is. I am very careful about what I bring into myself in terms of stimulation during the day. I'm very careful about social media and and news and stuff like that, conscious. It's a conscious determination on my part and I notice how I feel when I'm when I'm viewing something. And if it's and if it's a. If it's not good for me, I'm not I'm not hiding like I'm not hiding from the truth. It's not about that. It's it's just give me the facts. But don't give me a lot of drama around it. I don't need that. No. So especially nowadays. That's what I would suggest.

Ari [01:04:02] Go back to Dragnet. Just the facts, ma'am.

Elizabeth [01:04:04] That's right. Just the facts. I don't think they do that anymore.

Ari [01:04:10] No, the police does not do it. Don't do that either. The media doesn't do it. As soon as as soon as we allowed the news to become a commercial entity versus a nonprofit entity, we stopped experiencing facts and only opinions. And it's really a shame because I remember some of the great newsmen of my childhood. You know, I miss those guys. And they're impartial and that. And that's the way it was.

Elizabeth [01:04:44] Yeah, that's right. Right.

Ari [01:04:46] So anyway, thank you so much, Elizabeth. How can people get a hold of you if they'd like to, to find out more about how they can experience some of the amazing blessings that you give?

Elizabeth [01:04:58] Thank you. They can find me. www.elizabeth-kipp.com. You have to put the spacer in there or you can e-mail me at. Elizabeth with a Z. Elizabeth at Elizabeth hyphen kept dot com also. So much for inviting me. This is has been a wonderful conversation.

Ari [01:05:17] Now. My pleasure. Where can they get your book.

Elizabeth [01:05:20] Well you can get it at my Web site if you want an autographed copy or you can get it on Amazon.

Ari [01:05:26] I'm just I'm just making sure that they have ways in which to get more of your information. The book is The Way Through Chronic Pain Tools to Reclaim Your Healing Power. And this has been another episode of Create a New Tomorrow with Elizabeth Kipp, your host, Ari Gronich. And thank you so much for being here. Have a healthy day. And I look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

Ari [01:05:59] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, www.createanewtomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference.

Ari [01:06:21] I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out. And look forward to seeing you take the leave. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Hi, I am here with Dr. David Gruder. He is the founder & president of Integrity Culture Systems, and the Director of the newly emerging Center for Integral Leadership at the California Institute for Human Science. An 11-award-winning psychologist specializing in Leader Effectiveness, Enterprise Success, and Culture Architecture. Hear it live on Monday at 6 Am for the full episode in your favorite podcast app.

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Episode Highlights

David [00:01:53] You know, Stephen Covey, as you're very well aware of, who wrote Seven Habits of highly effective people, among other things, one of his principles that people regularly cite is the principle called Begin With the end in mind.

David [00:02:08] I think he almost got it right, but not quite. Begin with the best possible end in mind.

Ari [00:04:12] Yeah. You know, I've said that quite a lot. You know, when I hear people talk about the Constitution and how amazing it is, and I'll say it would be great if we actually tried to live by the ideals that we claim. Right. This week, we hear a lot of claims of what this country is at its finest possibility. But I've never seen. The attempt for it to be lived that way and understood that way.

David [00:06:45] Right. Well, what you're speaking to right now, and I'm loving that you're bringing this up, Ari, is is again, you know, it's kind of like a variation on that on that UNICEF New Year's card that my family got. The greater peace will only come with this after the smaller peace we make with each other.

Ari [00:10:34] And I think a lot of people mistaken in what integrity is to something outside of themselves, not something within themselves. Yes. In action that you take verses away, that you feel inside of you. And so I'd like you to talk a little bit more about integrity itself and how that relates to a person taking on actions outside of themselves before they do the work inside.

David [00:11:10] Right. Which, of course, never works well, if we take actions outside of ourselves before we've done the inner work, then, you know, if if you're if we're taking action from a foundation of crap, we're gonna get crap. Very simple.

Ari [00:21:40] Also, you know, I mean, we really have have a slippery slope when it comes to legislating morality, legislating vices and telling people what they can and can't do with their personal space. However, when you talk about companies, as you were saying earlier, and legislating what companies can do to people's space, that might be a little bit different.

David [00:25:50] We have to remove the blocks to the awareness of love. Love's presence, presence. We have to learn how to be authentic. We have to change ourselves. We have to remove the traumas that stand between us and being authentic. So I think there is a fundamental universal. Morality, and it's built into our wiring. And when we can agree on what we have, yes, about then we can put our differences into a context that allow our differences to enrich UST rather than divide us.

David [00:34:16] You've probably heard it, too, about the little boy who's out in the woods. And one day he sees this. This butterfly trying to make its way out of the cocoon. And he is standing there feeling what feels to him like deep compassion. All he wants to do is to rescue, save this this butterfly from the pain of of having to break out of its cocoon so it can fly away. And so he breaks the cocoon open and the butterfly falls dead to the ground. He picks up the butterfly. He runs home to to his mother and he's crying. And he said he's saying what? What happened? I tried to help this butterfly and it died. What? What a horrible person am I? What did I do wrong?

Ari [00:37:11] And give us that path forward so that we can create a new tomorrow, so that we can activate our vision for a better world. And so that we can be these impactful Integris humans that we were designed to be.

Ari [00:37:30] What would that path be?

Resources and Links

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Full Transcription

Ari&Davidpart2.mp3

Ari [00:00:02] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle.

Ari [00:00:14] For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree. But I'm not backing down.

Ari [00:00:51] I'm Ari Gronich. And this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:03] Welcome back to part two of this interview, if you missed the part one. Head back to the previous episode before you listen to this one. Now, we'll dive right into the conversation from the moment that we left off. Thanks again and welcome back.

Ari [00:01:18] As an operational planner, along with all your other accolades.

Ari [00:01:24] Right. If we were going to operationally plan this, which is basically taking it from the result that we want and working our way down to the beginning.

Ari [00:01:36] What would be the first steps on that operational plan to shift the system as it is and start that development into a lack of insane, insanity?

David [00:01:50] Right.

David [00:01:53] You know, Stephen Covey, as you're very well aware of, who wrote Seven Habits of highly effective people, among other things, one of his principles that people regularly cite is the principle called Begin With the end in mind.

David [00:02:08] I think he almost got it right, but not quite. Begin with the best possible end in mind.

David [00:02:18] If we don't start with a utopian vision, if we don't start with a vision of what we want to strive toward, the ideal future that we're not going to have tomorrow. But we have a true north that we're that we're pointing toward. If we don't have that, then we don't have a country. This country, the United States, was birthed based in large part on and in a its origins, a utopian vision. And then they got to crafting the Constitution and made all kinds of compromises and disenfranchized certain people and allowed slavery to continue and all kinds of nasty, dark, shadowy stuff. But it started off as a vision. A vision of a society. That is functioning at the intersection of personal freedom and the common good, where all are considered to be equal in terms of their right to have opportunity to make of it as they will and where. The government was mandated to function and legislate at the intersection of what preserves individual freedom and what promotes the common good. That was an audacious idea that people that people would actually be in a society whose government was mandated to be a servant to its citizens, not to itself, not to the common good. I'm sorry. Not to special interests, not to itself. That's that was a radical notion back then. It was a utopian notion back then. What I would say to you today is all of those utopian notions, great concept, still never been tried.

Ari [00:04:12] Yeah. You know, I've said that quite a lot. You know, when I hear people talk about the Constitution and how amazing it is, and I'll say it would be great if we actually tried to live by the ideals that we claim. Right. This week, we hear a lot of claims of what this country is at its finest possibility. But I've never seen. The attempt for it to be lived that way and understood that way.

Ari [00:04:50] And so there's always been such a dichotomy of divergence between ideal and reality. And I want to help bring the ideal into reality. So what do we need to do in order to create that?

David [00:05:08] The master planning, again, starts with envisioning the best possible end, getting on the same page about. About what that looks like in principle. And then reverse engineering coming backwards from that best possible end to the question of where are we now in relationship to that and how do we deliberately construct a bridge that takes us from where we are now to the best possible hand over time with patience and persistence and a dedication to not abandoning the vision.

David [00:05:49] This is what. Great companies do.

David [00:05:52] It's what great societies are theoretically capable of doing. But not if we're fighting against each other over whose ideology is right and wrong.

Ari [00:06:04] That's that's a good point, because my my question to you based on that, is everybody has their own vision of what utopia is. Right. They have their own belief system about it. And most of the belief system is created by the traumas that they've experienced in their life and the experiences I say Traumas, because the traumas in the experience are really what shape our belief system and what we think of as utopia in our heads may not necessarily be the answer for our hearts and our, you know, and our humanity.

Ari [00:06:42] So how do we bridge that gap first?

David [00:06:45] Right. Well, what you're speaking to right now, and I'm loving that you're bringing this up, Ari, is is again, you know, it's kind of like a variation on that on that UNICEF New Year's card that my family got. The greater peace will only come with this after the smaller peace we make with each other.

David [00:07:06] And what I would add is and within ourselves, we human beings tend to be have an inner community of self that is at war with itself. And the war comes from our traumas. The war comes from the undigested life experiences that we've had, the life experiences we've been through that we didn't know, and we still haven't figured out how to harvest great deep spiritual gifts from. So those pieces of unfinished business remain the boss of us. And if we go back to Maslow, when someone is in survival mode, they don't see utopia. They don't see what are what's possible, because all they're settling for is is surviving. It's like The Ballad of Jack and Diane and John Cougar Mellencamp. And the line from that song is Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? But that's that's the majority of society. They are. They are believing that they just have to muddle through in life. They long ago gave up their ideals, their their vision. And it's because of what you said, Ari. They have been taught to tolerate undigested life experiences inside themselves and to believe that the best they can do is hope to live with their scars rather than being shown ways that they can transform through their scars into an elevated way of living.

Ari [00:08:53] That was those very beautiful way of putting it. And, you know, to any listener out there who's thinking, I don't know what to do next. I know I'm listening to you and I'm understanding the words that you're saying and I just don't know what to do next. Where would where would you. You know, suggest somebody start with that.

David [00:09:23] Well, I'll say something that might sound self-serving, but it really is my answer to the question. I have an online course called the Integrity Guide to having it all how to put your genius where your dreams are and that course. Teaches people not simply a mindset, but very specific, step by step by step sequence skills, skills that are developed in a specific order because one set of skills builds on the next, builds on the next. And it the entire focus of that course is to help people outgrow their survival plan and upgrade their trival plan and their ability to live there. Thriveal plan. That's the resource that I would recommend.

Ari [00:10:17] Awesome. So I have I have.

Ari [00:10:21] I was I'm glad that you brought that up, because while I don't mind you being a little self-serving, I was being self-serving in having you mention a word, which is integrity.

Ari [00:10:34] And I think a lot of people mistaken in what integrity is to something outside of themselves, not something within themselves. Yes. In action that you take verses away, that you feel inside of you. And so I'd like you to talk a little bit more about integrity itself and how that relates to a person taking on actions outside of themselves before they do the work inside.

David [00:11:10] Right. Which, of course, never works well, if we take actions outside of ourselves before we've done the inner work, then, you know, if if you're if we're taking action from a foundation of crap, we're gonna get crap. Very simple.

David [00:11:25] Now about integrity. Integrity is one of those words that unfortunately falls in a category I referred to as true, but not useful because tons of people. Truly an authentically not not as lip service, but tons of people truly believe in the idea of integrity. But when I ask them to tell me what integrity is and what skills are necessary, they they don't know how to answer. And so forget for the moment about ill intended people who don't believe in integrity. What I'm talking about right now are people who authentically believe in integrity, just like most people, and authentically believe in collaboration. But they've never been trained in the skills that enable them to walk the talk. So what is integrity?

David [00:12:14] Integrity revolves around the three core drives that I was referring to earlier, our drive to be who we truly are, authenticity, our drive to bond with others connection and our drive to influence the world around us. Impact, authenticity our authenticity. Core drive is about being in integrity with our selves, with our own, the promptings that come from our deepest self, our deepest nature, our deepest callings and and connection. The connection core drive is about relationship integrity, doing what we say we're going to do and holding ourselves accountable when when what we do is not aligned with our intentions and then impact our impact or drive corresponds with collective or societal integrity being an integrity with the groups that we are a part of.

David [00:13:14] So integrity is not one dimensional, it's three dimensional. And as someone who was primarily motivated for the largest part of my life up until about 20 years ago, by contributing to societal integrity, I sacrificed myself integrity. I killed off my first marriage. Well, that was cocreator. The killing off was cocreator. But my part in killing off my first marriage was because I became so self neglectful that my heart shut down. And even though I was a dutiful husband and I did all the right things and I didn't do them as a martyr or feeling like I was sacrificing myself, I became so depleted that the thing that my first wife most rightly wanted from me, which was my heart, stopped being available. So I was out of integrity with myself and in my primary relationship, all while I was pursuing all of my social improvement initiatives. And that is is what I call One-dimensional integrity. It was a light bulb moment when I realized that I understood a fair amount of relationship about relationship integrity, even though I was falling to the wayside with some of that. And I understood a lot about societal integrity, but I didn't count integrity with myself as a form of integrity. There are other people who are at it at a different point with that, where they're all about themselves and they're and they're all about being an integrity with themselves. And if you don't like who I am and what I do, that's your problem. Well, that's one dimensional integrity. That's not three dimensional integrity. Integrity is three dimensional.

Ari [00:15:07] That's you know, that's a really good point because. I've had similar experiences, and I think that everybody can relate to this is sacrificing yourself.

Ari [00:15:21] For others or sacrificing yourself of sacrificing others for yourself, right?

Ari [00:15:29] I think that that we can relate to this as a regular thing, and I don't think that it's necessarily.

Ari [00:15:38] Common to have only one of these things right? Depending on the relationship, I'm sacrificing myself here for the better good here or I'm sacrificing the better. Good for this here. You know, sacrificing in the middle.

Ari [00:15:54] Right.

Ari [00:15:54] We're always having a balancing act between sacrificing our integrity and keeping it because we are such a busy society. Because we've had to create our value by what we do.

Ari [00:16:10] And this kind of goes back to the original part of our conversation is, is the sacrifice for work and money worth the lack of integrity towards ourselves? And if not, how can we as a society lift each other up to that place of integrity vs. you know, I, I let's just say I didn't vote.

Ari [00:16:40] Somebody doesn't vote. Right? Why? Because I don't feel like my vote counts, as you were saying at the beginning of this conversation. Well, that help. I sing my integrity as a contributing impact person both to myself and to the society at large.

Ari [00:16:59] Right. So how do we shift this perspective from nothing. I do really matters anyway.

David [00:17:09] This is what you're what you're pointing toward is a is people's belief in a law of scarcity that in order to have this, I have to sacrifice that. And when we allow that either or thinking to affect our happiness formula, we're basically screwed. So if I think that I have to sacrifice my integrity in order to have financial well-being. Or that I have to sacrifice financial well-being in order to keep my integrity. I am engaging in psycho spiritual insanity. I'm engaging in either or thinking when what is what our design is is both and thinking. Our design is to live at the intersection of our authenticity, our connection with others and our positive impact in the world. It's not one being sacrificed for the other two or two being sacrificed for one of them. It's all three in synergy, in collaboration with each other. We have collectively forgotten that vision of being human and because of that we are operating as a society. Again, there's some lovely individuals who have, you know, woak awakened from the spell. But as a society, we are still under the spell of a profoundly and dysfunctionally and harmfully sic happiness formula. It is not a real happiness formula. It's a dystopian formula. And we don't know it collectively, and it's time that people started calling it like it is. I am not a fan of political correctness. I am a fan. Huge fan of treating people with respect, compassion and regard. And when I am civil with people, when I am authentically respectful to them, toward them and compassionate toward them, I don't have to worry. One split second about about political correctness. Political correctness as an attempt to legislate morality and morality cannot be legislated. It can only be developed in us because we've healed those traumas that you you're referring to earlier so that we are living our authentic self rather than our wounded self.

Ari [00:19:42] Yeah, you know, I agree. I don't think that. I'm not a fan of political correctness. I'm not I'm not a fan. So much of correctness at all. You know, I really like if somebody were to point out my the experience of my life is very rare moments that I've actually been what somebody else might consider to be correct.

Ari [00:20:11] And I would imagine that that's probably the same thing behind closed doors that anybody and everybody else that's listening.

Ari [00:20:22] Would be able to relate to. Is that correctness is on?

Ari [00:20:29] It's unlegislated all because nobody has the same morality. Not a single person has every single thing in alignment with ever with another person's morality. And so how can we possibly legislate that? You know, we've tried because of religion. So religion originally was the first attempt at legislating morality, in my opinion.

Ari [00:20:54] All right. Let's see what we can do to take a set of a community that's tribal. Right.

Ari [00:21:03] And create a civil society so that we can all live together in somewhat peace and harmony. Right. And then and then let's create some rules around that. So don't covet you know, don't steal. Don't murder. Right. These are all commandments. But really what they are is legislating a level of morality because, you know, don't murder unless, of course, you're being attacked.

Ari [00:21:30] Right. Don't don't covet somebodies, you know, goods unless it's driving you to be better so that you can afford those goods.

Ari [00:21:40] Also, you know, I mean, we really have have a slippery slope when it comes to legislating morality, legislating vices and telling people what they can and can't do with their personal space. However, when you talk about companies, as you were saying earlier, and legislating what companies can do to people's space, that might be a little bit different.

Ari [00:22:10] And we've kind of gone backwards on this and we stop legislating corporate structures in favor of deregulation. Right.

Ari [00:22:23] And started to regulate people's behavior as it relates to things even, you know, like in the olden days, in the 20s of of alcohol prohibition.

Ari [00:22:37] Also, we prohibit the things that we think as a society are morally questionable.

Ari [00:22:45] And then we allow a company to poison our food, poison our water, poisoned our air in in attempts for profit for money.

Ari [00:22:55] So, you know, when we look at this as a society at large and we go, is this working optimally?

Ari [00:23:05] Is this moving our world and our society forward? I say no.

Ari [00:23:13] Caveat, maybe a little.

Ari [00:23:15] In some places and not in others. But really the whole point of this conversation is to awaken people into some other points of view that may not be politically correct or agree with your point of view.

Ari [00:23:32] So.

Ari [00:23:33] How do we agree to disagree?

Ari [00:23:39] And still be authentically ourselves without having to worry about the offense of political correctness,.

David [00:23:50] The way I think we start to do that is by establishing first.

David [00:23:55] What we agree to agree upon. So what I mean by that, for example, is that. And I have I have a different perspective about the Ten Commandments. I view the Ten Commandments not as commandments, but as promises.

David [00:24:18] That when you are in alignment with love, you can't help but behave those ways, not because you should, but because behaving in any way other than those ways would just be out of integrity for you wouldn't feel good. It wouldn't feel right. I don't agree that there is no universal morality.

David [00:24:40] I am firmly convinced that there is. But it's not a Theal a theology. It's a universal morality that is built into our fundamental human nature, related to our three core drives. That that when we are. Truly, who we are designed to be when we are authentic, when we are bonded, when we're connected, when we are loving. And when we are devoted to having positive impact in the world. Expression of our three core drives is our fundamental morality and is integrity.

David [00:25:26] In other words, what I'm saying is we are designed by our wiring to live within to in integrity. And it is our trauma structure. It's our unfinished business. It's our societal programing that is dysfunctional societal programing that seduces us out of our fundamental human nature. We have to learn how to love.

David [00:25:50] We have to remove the blocks to the awareness of love. Love's presence, presence. We have to learn how to be authentic. We have to change ourselves. We have to remove the traumas that stand between us and being authentic. So I think there is a fundamental universal. Morality, and it's built into our wiring. And when we can agree on what we have, yes, about then we can put our differences into a context that allow our differences to enrich UST rather than divide us.

Ari [00:26:25] That is beautifully stated, and I like having people who disagree with me because that allows me to learn something new.

Ari [00:26:35] And, you know, it's why I it's why when I'm looking on Facebook, for instance, all start searching for things that go completely against my point of view at I don't fall into that echo chamber that we or bubble thought bubble that that we started talking about.

Ari [00:26:56] And I have the ability to then say, OK, what is this? And, you know, I've never had the thought. I think I got it, this friend, this person, because of what they're posting. Right. I've never had that as something that I've thought, huh? No, they don't. They don't agree with me. I think I'm going to defend them.

Ari [00:27:18] Right. Yeah.

Ari [00:27:20] Such a foreign kind of a concept in my world. So how come it's such a common.

Ari [00:27:28] Fundamental thing happening in the world, because it just seems like it seems ridiculous to me.

David [00:27:37] Well, at the macro level, I think it's happening in the world today because. Because we have. A species that species being humanity. That is in a collective state of terror and the collective state of terror that I believe humanity is in right now. Is that all of the old structures? Are crumbling because they're being outgrown. The things that the structures that were helpful in propelling us forward in fits and starts and an imperfectly for the last couple of thousand years. Are not the structures that are going to propel us forward the next couple of thousand years? And when people fall into a trap that I think we're programed to fall into, which is to identify who we are through what we believe. Then if what we believe starts to crumble, we stop thinking we can know who we are. So we desperately cling to old belief systems in order to hold onto some version of identity. And that's a very false version of identity. You know, you're talking about being a human doing. Right. And when when in a society teaches us to be human doings, when first and foremost we are human beings. Right. And so this is this is, I think, at the heart of of the problem. Ah ah. Ways of understanding and our ways of functioning are crumbling. It's scaring the crap out of most people. And so they are becoming more and more tightly bonded, tightly and tightly woven to their belief system because they are afraid they won't know who they are. If those systems crumble.

Ari [00:29:51] That's a that's an interesting way of looking at it. You know, as I was thinking about what you're saying. The image in my head was that of meat inside of a pressure cooker. All right. You put the meat in the pressure cooker and it's hard.

Ari [00:30:10] You put it in.

Ari [00:30:12] Massive amounts of pressure and heat.

[00:30:16] Make it soft vs., say, a diamond that's been created over years of intense pressure and heat.

Ari [00:30:27] Right. Creates this beautiful thing called the diamond.

Ari [00:30:32] And I believe that in some ways the weaknesses of our society were caused because our culture was like you were saying earlier, our parents wanted us to be have it better than they had it.

Ari [00:30:50] And so they attempted at every point to remove the pressure cooker.

Ari [00:30:59] And the way I look at it, it begins with C sections at birth because they have found that the people who have C sections that are born from a C section. And this isn't this isn't to say to somebody who's had one, you're bad for having one.

Ari [00:31:20] It's just to say that in general that the first struggle of a human being is the struggle for life coming out that small tube.

Ari [00:31:33] And then coming out into the world and we have removed that first struggle and some people have postulated that that has itself.

Ari [00:31:45] Become part of the weaknesses of the people who have been born that way. I know that when when Gabriel was born, we had to have a C-section because of a fibroid.

Ari [00:31:58] And we did what we called a natural C-section, which was smaller hole. And we had him, like, squeeze out more. So it would be mimicking more experience. Right.

Ari [00:32:13] But the more we coddle our society, the more we remove the pressure cooker. And, you know, the lesson of the lobster is is the same a lobster.

Ari [00:32:27] Outgrows his shell by making the shelf so tight around the body that it has to be removed.

Ari [00:32:37] And we have artificially removed the shell and this stunted the growth. Right. What do you think of any of what I just said?

David [00:32:50] I think it's spot on. I think that part of why we have so many immune system problems in people today is because we stopped, you know, when I was a kid.

David [00:33:03] We didn't have the term free range children because all of us were free range children. So there wasn't a term for it. It's what kids did. They they ran around and had a great time together and got in trouble sometimes and fell and and scraped their knee or broke their leg or whatever it was, parents who coddled their children.

David [00:33:26] On the other hand, these were the children who who grew up with entitlement disorder. These are the children who grew up thinking that the world owed them something because they didn't grow up with self responsibility. They didn't grow up with with experiencing growth coming from pain. Not to say that we should be seeking out pain all the time, because I don't think we're supposed to seek out pain all the time. I think we're supposed to have be familiar enough with pain so we don't run from it. And so it can wisen us. It can help us become wiser rather than more defeated. So, you know, when we have when we have a society that is antiseptic, that is trying to protect people, we fall into that old teaching story.

David [00:34:16] You've probably heard it, too, about the little boy who's out in the woods. And one day he sees this. This butterfly trying to make its way out of the cocoon. And he is standing there feeling what feels to him like deep compassion. All he wants to do is to rescue, save this this butterfly from the pain of of having to break out of its cocoon so it can fly away. And so he breaks the cocoon open and the butterfly falls dead to the ground. He picks up the butterfly. He runs home to to his mother and he's crying. And he said he's saying what? What happened? I tried to help this butterfly and it died. What? What a horrible person am I? What did I do wrong? And of course, the mom's response in this teaching story, the healthy response was, honey.

David [00:35:12] Your compassion was wonderful.

David [00:35:16] And you tried to save this butterfly from an experience it needed to have in order to be able to fly away, and you simply didn't know that. And this in turn, reminds me of one of my favorite sayings from a 20th century theologian by the name of Reinhold Niebuhr, which is that our mission?

David [00:35:39] Is if we really care about elevating people and about elevating the world. Our mission is to both comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable. Not one or the other.

David [00:35:56] Both. And this is what I was referring to in the beginning in our first segment about at the end of the segment about. About the two forms of love. If we have nurturance without challenge, nurturing love, without challenging love, we get narcissistic, entitled people. If we have challenging without nurturance, challenging love without nurturance, we get shamed.

David [00:36:22] And disempowered people or tyrants. It's got to be both and.

David [00:36:30] But we don't live in a both and society anymore. We live in an either or society. And that is the fundamental sickness of our society today is vastly immature either or thinking that we are programed into having. And that we better wake the hell up out of. If we want to evolve into a next golden age.

Ari [00:36:52] That's that's a very profound thing. And, you know, I'm going to ask you a question I haven't asked anybody, which is.

Ari [00:37:01] If I was to ask you a question that would sum up. The sum total of everything we've talked about. Right.

Ari [00:37:11] And give us that path forward so that we can create a new tomorrow, so that we can activate our vision for a better world. And so that we can be these impactful Integris humans that we were designed to be.

Ari [00:37:30] What would that path be?

David [00:37:34] It would be the path toward what you've heard me say. It's the path towards self sovereignty that serves us all. It's the intersection of self responsibility in the context of living in a in a society where we are responsible for ourselves and we are contributing to the common good. Not one over the other. Self sovereignty that serves us all.

Ari [00:38:04] That is that's beautiful and I so appreciate you being here and I think we've had plenty of.

Ari [00:38:12] Tools that somebody can take away from this conversation and start applying, if you were to give just one other tool for the how, so that somebody can take that conceptual knowledge and wisdom that we just spent an hour and a half disseminating. Right. One simple tool.

Ari [00:38:38] To activate that in them. What would that will be.

David [00:38:44] That the toll would be a an imagery, a piece of imagery. That's about shifting our mindset. And the imagery is of a jigsaw puzzle. So imagine a jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces are out on the table and they're all upside down. And we're in a group of people and we're all busy turning all the pieces over so that we see what's what's on each piece.

David [00:39:11] And then, sure enough, some of us cluster around finding pieces that are the corners of the puzzle and others of us cluster around finding pieces that are the edges of the puzzle. And others of us start making discoveries about parts of inside the puzzle that are elements of the picture that the puzzle is creating, like a window or a door or flower or whatever.

David [00:39:40] And imagine that one other thing, which is that unlike a typical jigsaw puzzle, we're on the cover of the box. You see what the puzzle is supposed to look like when it's done.

David [00:39:53] There is no box, so we don't know what the puzzle is supposed to look like when it's done. And we have two choices. We can either start to polarize and accuse the cornerists of being horrific people because all they care about is the corners or the edge ists or the flowerists or the doorists or the window ests.

David [00:40:17] Rather than saying. Isn't it wonderful that you're so focused on the corners that you're identifying those on behalf of all of us? And the edges and the flowers and the and the doors and the windows so that we can co discover togather what the picture is meant to look like when it's all put together. That vision of synergy, of collaboration, if we can keep that in mind and in our hearts and in our spirits when we are interacting with other people who have different perspectives from ours.

David [00:40:55] The magic is just going to start happening. That's the last tool I'll leave you with.

Ari [00:41:01] That is.

Ari [00:41:02] That's a beautiful image and I so appreciate you being here. I appreciate this conversation and the gifts that you've just given the audience. I hope that they will walk away from this conversation, having pulled at least 20 or 30, not just one, but 20 or 30 good gems that they can then take with them and and really, really start to create their new tomorrow and activate their vision for a better world, because this is my way of impacting the world.

Ari [00:41:41] Is to bring these kinds of conversations out into full view of the public so that we can have deep, considerate conversations about where we want to be, who we want to be and what we want to create in this world.

Ari [00:41:58] And I really appreciate you being here. What's again, you know, I'd like you to actually say the Web site, both for you as well as for that particular integrity piece and how people can get a hold of you if they'd like to learn more from you.

David [00:42:17] Sure. So, first of all, thank you for your mission of service. Because what you're doing through this podcast has the potential to have widespread, important, significant impact, positive impact in the world. So my main Web site is DrGruder.com. That's drgruder.com. And if you want to be in touch with me, you'll find on drgruder.com a blue button that says contact and click on the blue button and you'll have different ways of contacting me. The Integrity Guide to having it all course that's available. You can find that by going to drgruder.com/academy. That'll take you to the Doctor Gruder Academy page. And it's the first course that's listed. dr.gruder.com/academy.

Ari [00:43:17] Excellent. Thank you so much. And thank you audience for sticking with us, listening to this episode.

Ari [00:43:23] And I wish you a really, really blessed day.

Ari [00:43:29] And I wish you the kahunas to challenge yourself.

Ari [00:43:38] To become the person that, you know, you are already inside and to shift what you might be doing now to create something more based on results performance and create a better world with us. Collaborate with us so that we together can bring in and usher in this new society that is focused on creating a world we all can live in, in harmony with nature.

Ari [00:44:11] And I just I bless you all. Hope you have a healthy day. This has been another episode of Create a New Tomorrow with your host, Ari Gronich. And thank you so much, David Gruder, for being here. We really appreciate all of your wisdom and experience.

David [00:44:27] Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Ari [00:44:30] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, create a new tomorrow. Com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out.

Ari [00:44:55] And look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Hi, I am here with Dr. David Gruder. He is the founder & president of Integrity Culture Systems, and the Director of the newly emerging Center for Integral Leadership at the California Institute for Human Science. An 11-award-winning psychologist specializing in Leader Effectiveness, Enterprise Success, and Culture Architecture. here is the full episode hope you enjoy. Listen in your favorite podcast app.

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Episode Highlights

Ari [00:04:15] How do you break through that kind of organizational is in, whether it's in corporations and governments in whatever or in families or in yourself, even the organizational how you've organized your own being.

David [00:06:04] And for the words and actions that the emotions I'm having about the stories I'm telling myself about the parts of reality that I'm paying attention to have on those to whom I'm in relationship or with whom I'm in relationship. That, to me, is the essence of spiritual responsibility. So that's the personal side of it. There's a societal side of it, too. Should I go on to that?

David [00:12:15] My belief system is the right belief system because after all, all of the other beliefs that my core assumptions are based on makes sense with my core assumptions. So my belief system must be right. Well, it does. It doesn't. Must be right. That's that's. That's erroneous thinking. That's arrogant thinking. And the reason that's important to the question that you are asking is because when I approach these kinds of of questions of paradigm of belief system from a place of humility. Then I get to see everyone else as my brothers and my sisters. I get to see people who have different life experiences for mine that have lessons and wisdom to teach me, just as I have certain life experiences that might have wisdom to offer others.

Ari [00:17:26] And that's whether it's, you know, in this day and age is the mask versus the know mask. Right. Or the hug versus no hug. Social distance versus. Come together. You know, if we're able to have these kinds of conversations, don't you think we would get a long way, much better in society?

David [00:22:10] The blindness that people end up having, they don't know it. I call it a spell. Most people, in my experience are under a cultural spell. They don't know how to see that they're under a spell and therefore they don't know that there's something to get free of. And it's incredibly damaging.

Ari [00:23:29] A community of melting pot people. So when you know, when we hear people say, if you don't like it, leave it. Or if you're you know, if you think differently than I do, you should leave the country or whatever those those statements are that people make.

Ari [00:27:26] That is so true. You know, my my grandfather came over to this country when he was 12 years old, I believe, by himself on a boat through Ellis Island, became a multi, multi millionaire, lost it all, gained it all, lost it all gained it all.

Ari [00:27:44] But he spoke eleven languages, eleven Austrian, Hungarian, you know, Yiddish, Hebrew, Spanish, French. I mean, he spoke German a lot of languages because, you know, as a salesman that was his job. But even even before he was 12. Growing up in Austria, Hungarian Empire, he was initially taught and this was in maybe the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. He was taught these languages as just your being born.

Ari [00:47:46] Absolutely. You know, I'd like you to maybe expand on that a little bit, these ideas, because this is really what what my book in this podcast is about is how do we go about with tools, with techniques, with training, with mindset. How do we go about taking this world that we created. Right. And saying, OK. The way I look at it is this is not optimal, we can create it better. So how do we create something that is more optimal for our own human growth? So let's expand on this for a little bit. And just I'm going to let you kind of go, because I know you've you've done a lot of thinking about it. We've talked about this before

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Full Transcription

Ari&Davidpart1.mp3

Ari [00:00:00] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down.

Ari [00:00:50] I'm Ari Gronich and this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:01] Welcome back to another episode of Create a New Tomorrow.

Ari [00:01:05] I am your host, Ari Granite's, and I am back with Dr. David Gruder. He is a 12 time award winning integrative psychologist. And more than that, he's an organizational psychologist. He has done some amazing things. I call him the guru of gurus, the mentor of mentors. And welcome back, David. I am so glad that we're able to do this again and provide so much more of your wisdom to the audience.

David [00:01:33] That's a pleasure to be back with you, Ari.

Ari [00:01:35] Awesome. Thank you so much. Tell us a little bit about how you got started in organizational psychology. Why did you choose that field specifically and what it is that you're looking to create in this new tomorrow, New World?

David [00:01:52] So how I got into the field. Kind of starts at at age 16. I was expected to become a professional musician. And we're certainly on track for that. I had started performing as a child in a lot of different capacities. And so I was not being asked, what university are you going to? I was being asked, what conservatory are you're going to? And by the time I was 16, in some way, that is still kind of magical and mysterious to me. I knew that even though music was and is my first love, psychology was my calling. And I also knew that I was. Called to have impact on elevating society, not just on individuals. And so in my doctoral program, I selected a doctoral program that was going to enable me to get a PHD. That was split between clinical psychology, which is the deep inner work and organizational development psychology, which is the interpersonal the work of of what happens in groups and systems. And so that was my best way to equip myself to elevate leaders and cultures throughout my career.

Ari [00:03:14] That is that it's awesome. You know, one of the things that I say a lot is we made this shit up and we can make it up better. Yeah. Think that people forget in many cases that the society as it is, is a figment of our imagination. We created it. We created the buildings. We created the design of the houses. We created the design of the societies. And when something is suboptimal, not up to performance standards, right. Then it's kind of incumbent upon us to recreate it in a different, better way. But we have organized around our creation and there's a psychological element to this is how we live and this is how we're always going to live and this is how we should live. And we want to go back to the way that it was right or the way that we think it should be.

Ari [00:04:15] How do you break through that kind of organizational is in, whether it's in corporations and governments in whatever or in families or in yourself, even the organizational how you've organized your own being.

Ari [00:04:31] What do you what would be some some tools, some ways that people could think about this a little bit differently so they'd be open to the possibilities now?

David [00:04:42] Great question. I agree with you completely. We have massive imaginations as human beings were incredible.

David [00:04:50] The natural compulsive storytellers. We make up stories left and right. And so, yes, everything we see around us is of our creation. We invented an imaginary thing, called it a corporation corporate structure. We invented an imaginary thing called money. I mean, you don't go down a whole long list of things that we invented and then those things started being or seeming real to us. So the tails wagging the dog in that sense.

David [00:05:26] And so where where this starts is with a personal ownership piece and. And a societal ownership piece. So the personal ownership piece for me has to do with self responsible responsibility. I and I alone I'm responsible for the parts of reality that I pay attention to for the stories I make up about what those parts of reality that I'm paying attention to mean for the emotions that the stories I tell myself about the parts of reality that I'm attending to activate in me.

David [00:06:04] And for the words and actions that the emotions I'm having about the stories I'm telling myself about the parts of reality that I'm paying attention to have on those to whom I'm in relationship or with whom I'm in relationship. That, to me, is the essence of spiritual responsibility. So that's the personal side of it. There's a societal side of it, too. Should I go on to that?

Ari [00:06:30] Yes, please.

David [00:06:32] So the societal responsibility part. Has to do with with the intersection of freedom and responsibility, which we seem to have forgotten collectively as a society, even though I know certain individuals who haven't forgotten that.

David [00:06:51] But as a society, we seem to have forgotten it. You know, there are there are lots of people who are taking the position essentially that the most important thing in society is freedom. And others are saying the most important thing in society is responsibility, social responsibility.

David [00:07:12] And both groups are equally and oppositely insane because of what they've forgotten, because freedom without responsibility is narcissism and responsibility without freedom is tyranny. And when we have forgotten that we invented society and that society or society's rules are not meant to be the boss of us, they are meant to be in service to our evolution as a species and our stewardship of a planet. When we forget those things, then we have everything upside down. Same thing goes with patriotism, by the way. You know, I view patriotism as nested dolls. You know, those Russian or Ukrainian dolls where there's a doll with an a doll with an a doll?

David [00:08:08] Well, this is something else that we've forgotten as a as a planet collectively. Again, individuals are exceptions to this, where we take a position that in my country comes first. And, you know, whatever impact that has on your country, well, that's your problem. Well, you know, patriotism, if it's integrated and if it's saying it's nested. So my first responsibility is to stewarding the planet. My second responsibility is to humanity inside of that. I have patriotism to my country, to my religious or spiritual groups, to my communities, to my business, etcetera, etcetera. And inside of that is my patriotism to my to my family and my and my primary love relationship and to myself. When we when we are in either or thinking that says I have to sacrifice one of those nested dolls for the other nesting dolls or or in order to attend to one nesting doll, I have to be willing to sacrifice the rest. I'm engaging in insane societal thinking.

Ari [00:09:20] You know, that's really interesting. I think a lot of people believe that they have to focus the exact opposite of what you just said. Right. Self family, city, county. I mean, it goes out and then eventually maybe we'll get to the world at large. Right. Or humanity at large and and so forth. I never quite understood the idea of patriotism. And I'll tell you why. Patriotism to me has always been the same thing as being a white supremacist or a well, saying to somebody, I'm proud to be white, I'm proud to be black. I'm proud to be blue. I'm proud to be green. It's something that you have no control over where you were born. Right. So you're born and you know, Latvia versus being born in the U.S.. So all of a sudden, you must be a lower form of human because you were born there, but you had no no choice in that. Just like you must be if you're black, you must be a lower form of a human being because of your color, even though you had no particular choice in that. And it really relates nothing to character. So how do we evolve beyond the label of. Well, any of the labels. But beyond the label of patriotism, beyond the label of I'm proud because. Of what I am versus what I do.

David [00:11:05] Right. Oh, my gosh, there are so many layers to this question.

David [00:11:10] You know, the let me start with what you said about in this narrative of a person saying, I can't help where I was born or the color of my skin. Even that is open to question. You know, there are metaphysical belief systems that that say that we do choose our life circumstances. So the humility piece with this is to remember that all belief systems, every belief system this planet has ever seen is based on its own set of core assumptions, such as I chose where you know, how the circumstances under which I was born. I didn't choose those core assumptions that are neither verifiable nor unverifiable that can either be proved nor disproved. And when we forget that, we move straight into arrogance.

David [00:12:15] My belief system is the right belief system because after all, all of the other beliefs that my core assumptions are based on makes sense with my core assumptions. So my belief system must be right. Well, it does. It doesn't. Must be right. That's that's. That's erroneous thinking. That's arrogant thinking. And the reason that's important to the question that you are asking is because when I approach these kinds of of questions of paradigm of belief system from a place of humility. Then I get to see everyone else as my brothers and my sisters. I get to see people who have different life experiences for mine that have lessons and wisdom to teach me, just as I have certain life experiences that might have wisdom to offer others. And it's not a competition over who has more wisdom for whom it is this delicious opportunity. Life is this delicious opportunity to compare notes and learn from each other and discover more about the bigger picture from the smaller slices that we each see individually when we have that kind of attitude. We are able to sit in the both and of relishing our own identity, you know, relishing the unearned privileges and the unearned targeting that we get to experience as a result of the life that we have been born into. And we get to relish the diversity of humanity. So instead of it being one or the other, that I'm I'm either only identified through the color of my skin or I refuse to recognize that my skin has has a particular tint to it. How about both hand?

Ari [00:14:20] That's a really interesting point of view. I think that what that does for people when they adopt that kind of a point of view is it allows for an openness and a willingness to understand another's point of view. And I'll give you an example of of an experience that I had about 10 years or so ago. I had a roommate who was a Palestinian Muslim woman. And I am a Latino Jew who I you know, I call myself a mutt because I have pieces, I think everything inside of me. So I've never actually identified as a label, but I've definitely got a lot of that Jewish culture and Latino culture in me. And so she and I would have these amazing conversations about the Palestinian and Jewish and Israeli conflict, the Muslim and Jewish conflict. And, you know, what was fascinating is her cousin was an attorney who worked for Hamas, PLO. And the government of Palestine. And did negotiations with Israel. So we actually had an an opportunity in that in those conversations to create some real change, because what I didn't know is she would call him up after we had a conversation and say, OK, you might want to talk to them about this. You might want to write. You might want to have these kinds of conversations with when doing the negotiating.

Ari [00:16:09] And she was like a sister to me. We didn't have that feeling of being separate is even with our separate thoughts and our separate opinions. We didn't agree on everything for sure. But she was like a sister. We considered ourselves each others, family.

Ari [00:16:27] And that allowed for so much healing within both of us from what we preconceived as in what's the word that they use in divorce?

David [00:16:43] Irreconcilable differences.

Ari [00:16:45] Both differences. Yes. So what we would consider to be a reference. A reconciled, salable differences became very reconcilable. Very common for us to get to a level of understanding where we were the same, where we were different. And how the how that happened.

Ari [00:17:08] And I find that what you're saying is that kind of a conversation. When doing peace talks would be so beneficial.

Ari [00:17:20] Yeah, to to have that kind of a conversation with the people who disagree with us.

Ari [00:17:26] And that's whether it's, you know, in this day and age is the mask versus the know mask. Right. Or the hug versus no hug. Social distance versus. Come together. You know, if we're able to have these kinds of conversations, don't you think we would get a long way, much better in society?

David [00:17:47] Not only would we get along much better, but the quality of our problem solving would skyrocket. Because. When people are in their own silos, you know, when they're when they're in what is in some circles, the circles that study propaganda, they call them information bubbles. They they're only getting a reflection of their own beliefs. Coming back at them from social media and other Internet sources because of how the the algorithms are actually set up on the Internet, where the algorithms are deciding for us what we're going to get exposed to, what products we're going to get exposed to, what perspectives we're gonna get exposed to and when we're in information bubbles. That's a prescription for divisiveness because in an information bubble, because all I'm seeing is my own reflection. Now, it's easy to imagine that I must be right. Whereas when we're given these these sacred opportunities to really know and interact with people who have very different life experiences and backgrounds than we do, then there's a level of richness that expands our vision of ourselves, of our world, and of what solutions could look like.

Ari [00:19:20] Yeah, that that's that's really cool, I was watching a video recently, and it was a gentleman who what they, you know, they say infiltrated the KKK. He was a black gentleman, but he didn't infiltrate. He just started having conversations with one of the grand. Pubis don't know what they call them, grandmasters of the KKK, and yet and over the years, they became very close friends.

Ari [00:19:50] Began to trust each other because they got to know each other. Yes, then I believe that it's somewhere around 60, 70 different members of the KKK ended up denouncing that. Belief system. They still like the camaraderie that came from being part of the group. Right. But they denounced what the group was focused on. I guess you could say, and it's an interesting form of psychology.

Ari [00:20:23] You get to learn about somebody or about a different culture, and all of a sudden it opens your eyes and heart rate. They say that the cure to racism is traveling.

Ari [00:20:35] What do you think of that statement?

David [00:20:37] Yes, the cure to centrism. Any kind of ethnocentrism is to be exposed to other cultures. The conversations that I have with my fellow Americans who have not traveled extensively outside of the United States are profoundly different from the conversations that I have with my fellow Americans who have traveled extensively and by travel. I don't mean that they've that somebody has gone to another country and then they've stayed in American hotels and eaten American foods and gotten tours around whatever that location is by American tour guides. That's not traveling. That's pretending to travel. I'm talking about the real deal. And when we're exposed to other cultures, if we have any kind of teach ability in us at all, we can't help but be impacted. We can't help but have our world view expanded when people are very, very ethnocentric. Whatever the the centrism is about American centric, let's say, because they've never traveled outside of the United States. They may not have even traveled to all the different sections of our country because our country is a bunch of mini called countries. Culturally, you know, the culture in the Deep South is not the same as the culture in New York or as the culture in California, etcetera, etcetera.

David [00:22:10] The blindness that people end up having, they don't know it. I call it a spell. Most people, in my experience are under a cultural spell. They don't know how to see that they're under a spell and therefore they don't know that there's something to get free of. And it's incredibly damaging.

Ari [00:22:32] Yeah, that's interesting. I used to I I'm very good with accents. Right. And I used to be able to tell if somebody was from Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx, Manhattan, which New York accent. It was that they had just because somebody was from Texas or if they're from Tennessee. Right. From. From their accent. And what you just said is so true. We are such a diverse culture of many different countries met.

Ari [00:23:04] You know, this this whole thing about us being a melting pot. And so here's my question to you. If we a melting pot of all of these different cultures. How do we convince or shift the perspective of American to.

Ari [00:23:29] A community of melting pot people. So when you know, when we hear people say, if you don't like it, leave it. Or if you're you know, if you think differently than I do, you should leave the country or whatever those those statements are that people make.

Ari [00:23:47] How do we shift that so that people understand that this melting pot and the differences in culture is what makes us great, not what weakens us?

David [00:23:58] A great question again. I, I think that what will help a lot is understanding the pendulum swing in the immigrant mindset that we've undergone over the last 80 years or so, 70 years, somewhere in that in that timeframe, that there was a time when the immigrant mindset that the dominant immigrant mindset was you come to the United States and you leave your old country, your old culture behind and you assimilate into being an American. And what that looked like back then. And I grew up in a family like this. Was that you? You gave up the language of the country that you came to came from and you gave up its its cultural traditions. And and you you tried to blend into some notion of what being an American was. And now we are at the other end of that pendulum swing where we have people that have no desire. Some people, not not all people, but some people have no desire to assimilate into American society. They want the experience of being in this country while staying fully identified with whatever the culture or country or languages that they came from. And I think both of those perspectives have massive blindspots. We have to have a common bond, a common sense of purpose and mission. And that common bond is in the context of the United States would be the the original version of the American dream, the version the American dream that birthed this country, not the delusional version of the American dream that it was replaced with in the 1950s.

David [00:25:56] And the diversity piece of that is that I inside of this common bond that I share with you. I relish my uniqueness as an individual, as a culture. My ability to speak multiple languages, God forbid, like most Europeans, are multilingual. Most Americans are not multilingual. And in Europe, there is no there's no fear when I mean, when I'm working in Switzerland, there is no fear that I encounter among the Swiss, for example, that they're losing their culture because they're having conversations in French, in German, in Italian and in the one of the native versions of Swiss language, which is called her Monch. There's no feeling of, oh, I'm I'm suddenly not Swiss because I'm speaking all of these languages. There's there's a both. And about that, there's pride in being Swiss. And what the Swiss culture collectively stands for. And at the same time, there's a joy in expressing a flavor of that being that version of being Swiss. We're missing that in this country. We're missing the boat and we're in a war between blind acculturation or refusal, a refusal to a culture rate. It's got to be both.

Ari [00:27:26] That is so true. You know, my my grandfather came over to this country when he was 12 years old, I believe, by himself on a boat through Ellis Island, became a multi, multi millionaire, lost it all, gained it all, lost it all gained it all.

Ari [00:27:44] But he spoke eleven languages, eleven Austrian, Hungarian, you know, Yiddish, Hebrew, Spanish, French. I mean, he spoke German a lot of languages because, you know, as a salesman that was his job. But even even before he was 12. Growing up in Austria, Hungarian Empire, he was initially taught and this was in maybe the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. He was taught these languages as just your being born.

Ari [00:28:20] You're growing up and you're learning. My parents, on the other hand, my dad who speaks German and Spanish and English and Yiddish. Right. But he they only spoke Spanish if they didn't want us to know what they were saying. And so I was I took a lot of years of Spanish, but I never learned how to speak it fluently or fluidly, I should say, you know, same with Hebrew. I took Hebrew school, but when I went to Israel, I couldn't speak Hebrew for anything based on how they speak it on the streets, right? Absolutely. No, I felt. And every time I've traveled, I have felt so culturally inept because of my lack of being able to speak another language. So what you just said is so true. And and I really appreciate you saying that, because when you speak somebody else's language, you get to know their culture much better. Right. Especially if you could dream. In their language.

David [00:29:30] So you and I came from very similar families. Both sides of my family came from what was then the Australian Gary, an empire. One side of my family came from the Austrian side. The other side of the family came from the Hungarian side. And my parents as well, both of whom were born in the United States. It's their parents who came over from from Europe. My parents, when they didn't want my brother and me to understand what they were talking about. That's when they talk to Yiddish. And when I first started traveling extensively internationally in the 1970s, what I discovered to my great delight were that was that the two fastest ways to access the heart of a country that I was in were to speak its language and eat its food and hang out with people who were from that country rather than go looking for other Americans to hang out with. And I got huge enrichment from the willingness to be a clumsy imbecile in another language, because what I found very rapidly was that most people in the countries that I visited were very appreciative and forgiving of my inability to speak their language simply because I was authentically attempting to speak their language. And it opened up all kinds of doors.

Ari [00:30:59] That is that's a that's a really good point. You know, when I was in Greece during the 2004 Paralympics. We learned a lot of Greek because I was going to be there for a month and I had to learn it. I had to learn what what they were saying on the on the trail, you know, the trains and and so on. And some of the words that are not appropriate to say. Right. So they had us with these. But. Packs as part of our uniform. But you called them a fanny pack. Well, you know, you were you were saying something untoward because Fanny means something different in European here than it does. That's right. Our culture. And so learning those things so that you don't offend, but you also learn.

Ari [00:31:51] Oh, that's a odd name for that particular body part. Know, it's an interesting thing. And I would go to this this restaurant after a ten, twelve hour day. And this one gentleman was from Boston, but from while he was from Greece, we had lived in Boston. It came back to Greece. So he spoke a few languages and he and I would sit and chat for an hour, two hours, three hours a night and just get to know each other. And it was interesting because when I was there, they had the Algerians coming in to the country and doing all of the cheap labor for building the stadiums and so on for the Olympics was such an interesting thing for me because. We have in this country what we call the Mexicans, right? It's not Mexican people. It's the Mexicans that will do your cheap labor. And I was thinking, you know, every country has got to have is going to have immigrants that they call taking their jobs and doing this this kind of thing. And I think about it and I go, well, why wouldn't why weren't the Greeks doing the job? Because it was a lot easier, would have been a lot easier to hire the people who were from there. Right. So what is it about us as people in general that think that outsourcing and doing these kinds of things is such a wrong thing vs. allowing people who want to work in something that they're good at and like doing and then we get to do the things that we like doing. Right.

Ari [00:33:38] So how can we balance these two pieces so that they make more sense for people?

David [00:33:49] Well, I think it's important to understand with those particular dimensions that that there are certain people who who look on certain kinds of jobs as being beneath them. There are other people who might not look on a particular job as being beneath them, but the job pays a lower amount per hour than the amount of money that they want to be making per hour. And so they won't take the job because they think it pays too little. And so when we've got and we've seen this throughout cultures around the world, I mean, the Japanese, for example, had the same kind of attitude toward Koreans for a long time, just as a for instance, you name the culture there.

David [00:34:40] There has been this kind of where the where the real people of our country. And then we have these people that really aren't us, but we've got to bring them in because they'll do what we need doing because they're willing to and they're willing to get paid less than we're willing to get paid. And we've got more important things to do that that kind of of that mean it's a form of elitism. Obviously, it's also partly propelled, though, by in the United States, by the old immigrant mentality. You know, my parents like like you're talking about when when my grandparents came to the States, they came penniless. They they gave up everything in their prior lives. And so my my parents both grew up in tenements. They grew up in the slums because their parents could barely make ends meet because they were taking jobs that were the the dregs of society kinds of jobs in order to make enough money to not be deported. You know, enough money to because they became they all became American citizens, but they didn't have the education to or the entrepreneurial spirit if they didn't have the education to really succeed in high level ways. So they put all of their energy into making sure that their children got the kind of education in the United States that they didn't have.

David [00:36:13] So their children create better lives for themselves than their parents could. And my parents in term had in turn had that same idea that they wanted my brother and me to have a better life than they had. So we were enter generationally, we were on an upward spiral in the belief in the American dream.

Ari [00:36:37] You know, that's a good point. I think every generation is designed as a step ladder. Right. And if we continually move up generation to generation to generation up that ladder, we can create something that's incredible. We just have to be willing to shift ladders when that ladder stops. Right. So one ladders, 10 feet. We've got to be on a 20 foot ladder to get past so we can switch. And right now, we're we're on this trajectory of people who want to go backwards down the ladder again. Right. And people who want to go forwards. We have this big confusion. I think it's a confusion, although a lot of people are very sure of themselves when it comes to progression versus regression. And, you know, progressive and liberal has gotten a bad name, conservative has gotten a bad name and those kinds of things. So if we're ever going to change and create a new tomorrow. What are the elements that we have to look at? In order to to start moving forward on and keep going up the ladder vs. regressing down?

David [00:37:57] Well, I think first of all.

David [00:38:00] We have in our society a massive pandemic of learned helplessness, the belief. Nothing I do makes a difference. The negative things I do don't really impact other people. The positive things I do don't really impact other people. So all you know, all I'm left with is let me let me live for today as much as I can. And, you know, I probably won't be alive in 10 years, so who cares? And so there's an unrealistic, you know, self-serving kind of undercurrent in parts of our society. There's a learned helplessness, undercurrent in parts of our society. There is a mentality in other parts of our society that says, well, we we've achieved things that other people haven't achieved. So we're entitled to look down our noses at those people who haven't achieved what we think they should have achieved at the at that point in their lives or in the in their generations of being American. The first stage, I think, is about spotting the spell. It's about waking up to the ways in which our minds. There's a battle for our brains. It's going on and waking up to the ways that our minds are being hijacked or that attempts to hijack our minds are occurring on a daily basis across the political and ideological spectrums. I think we need to align with our fundamental design. You know, there there there are certain qualities that unite all of us as a species, as humanity.

David [00:39:46] We all have the drive to be who we truly are. It's our drive for authenticity. We all have the drive to bond with others. It's our drive for connection. And we all have the drive to influence the world around us. And that's our drive for impact. When we forget that our basic nature is about living at the intersection of authenticity, connection and impact. We are susceptible to being manipulated and propagandized by stuff out there that's going to that's trying to tell us that other things are more important than those things. So we have to align with our design or realign with our design. We have to strengthen our underpinnings. We have to strengthen our teach ability, are our personal well-being, our health are self care, our discernment, our ability to to recognize those kinds of subtle thought processes, critical thinking, if you will, rather than this ridiculous, you know, either or polarized thinking. We have to learn how to recognize the promptings from our deepest selves. We have to learn how to recognize wisdom that comes from whatever source we individually happen to feel connected with that we are a part of. And that's larger than us. We we need to learn how to harvest profound blessings and gifts from undesired and even unacceptable life experiences.

David [00:41:23] We need all of those underpinnings in order to function in thrive, all rather than survival as individuals. We need to learn how to have right relationship with our power rather than to either run from power because the role models we see around power or our modeling really screwed up dysfunctional versions of power. So we want nothing to do with power or to pursue dysfunctional power. And we need to be really good at facilitating repair and evolution in whatever spheres of influence we're called to have positive impact. If we're all doing that, if we're all busy being too busy doing those kinds of things, then our differences become cherished and our common bond becomes sacred. And when we got that way of functioning as a society, the way we're going to function is vastly different from how we're functioning today.

Ari [00:42:27] Yeah, you know, there is a number of things that you said there that that I really enjoyed hearing. And one of the things that, you know, my my mentor. I call him Buckminster Fuller would say is that we have to get over the auspicious. And this is a paraphrase. So don't quote me on it, but it's paraphrased. It over the auspicious notion that we have to work to be a value. And.

Ari [00:43:01] I go back when I hear that phrase in my head, I go back to people like Thomas Jefferson, Leonardo da Vinci, Plato, you know, like I go back to the people that we consider great people of history. And I think, were they valuable in their lifetime or were they valuable in their death? Were they valuable as human beings because they created what they created or because they existed to begin with? And when I think of this notion,.

Ari [00:43:37] I think of all the technology that we have created and all the technology that we can create. And we've seemed to placed so much emphasis of value on how much a person person works versus what a person contributes. And the results that we get, we do this in medicine all the time. A doctor gets paid for procedures, not for results, not for what they create, but for what they treat. And so to me, I want to go backwards a little bit to a time in which we don't have the technology. Now, this is this is just a utopian theory at the moment, right?

Ari [00:44:27] I believe that we have borrowed with all the technology that we have and we consume. We've borrowed our imaginations from other people. And thereby have left our own imagination by the wayside. And that's going to become more and more evident in the next couple generations. Right. So how do we stop borrowing other people's. Imagination's and I call that, you know, game boxes. You know, any kind of game boxes and Internets and TV's and so on. When we had more time on our hands, we did more with the time that we had. I don't believe that people are lazy. I believe that people have been conditioned to cut their imaginations and thereby not create and be authentic in who they could be. So how do we get back to being our authentic selves when we have to eat? We have to live and we have to pay to be valuable.

David [00:45:36] Let me answer at a macro level and on a micro level. At the macro level. We are culturally still in a phase with technology where we are intoxicated with it. So it's a new toy, a new set of toys, and we're drunk. We're drunk on the new toy.

David [00:45:57] And so, of course, the toy becomes the boss of us and we relinquish our thought process to this new toy developed mentally in a society. Those phases are eventually outgrown. Where we we ultimately develop right relationship with new innovations rather than be intoxicated by them at the at the micro level. I think it's crucial for each one of us to discover and move into alignment with whatever are our deepest sense of life. Purpose happens to be because when we're living in alignment with our purpose. Our creativity comes back online and things like technology. Become what they are meant to be in the first place, which is tools to propel our creativity and our imagination rather than substitutes for being creative and imaginative. And I love that you brought up Bucky Fuller. One of my favorite of many quotes of his is the best way to predict the future is to invent it. And we've got the tail wagging the dog here. We're looking at trying to figure out how to predict the future so that we can be ready for it. Rather than asking ourselves what is the future we want to create together, the future we want to live in? What is the world we want to live in? And the world we want to leave to our children and our grandchildren. We need to stop predicting it and start inventing it. And, of course, like you said, in order to do that, we have to realign our creativity.

Ari [00:47:46] Absolutely. You know, I'd like you to maybe expand on that a little bit, these ideas, because this is really what what my book in this podcast is about is how do we go about with tools, with techniques, with training, with mindset. How do we go about taking this world that we created. Right. And saying, OK. The way I look at it is this is not optimal, we can create it better. So how do we create something that is more optimal for our own human growth? So let's expand on this for a little bit. And just I'm going to let you kind of go, because I know you've you've done a lot of thinking about it. We've talked about this before.

David [00:48:37] Yeah, well, on a brass tacks level, we can.

David [00:48:43] Simply start making a habit of doing what is already being done in a more narrow way in high functioning companies, in a high functioning company. Among other things, one of the one of their one of the traditions or rituals in a high functioning company is that teams get together regularly, not just once in a while. They get together regularly and they ask the question, what's working well and why does that matter? What positive impact does those things that are working well have?

David [00:49:18] And then they ask a second question. What would what could what could be even better? What would be even better? If so, what if we did this and that and this other thing differently? Why would that matter? What positive impacts would would the up leveling of best practices have and. Healthy company is constantly looking at it at their best practices and saying, well, those might have been the best practices 10 years ago. And thank goodness we develop them today in the middle of the Covid crisis. Not so much. What would what are what what in vet best practices would we invent? Now, that same kind of boots on the ground attitude. Is a equally relevant to crafting an elevated society. We need to look at what's working well and why that matters so that we will do those things more. And we need to look at the even better ifs and how it different changes and improvements are going to elevate our functioning as a society. So, you know, we're looking at, let's just say capitalism, for example. Most people don't know that there are two versions of capitalism and one version of something else that that's called capitalism but isn't. And most people just, you know, lump all of those things together. And so there are a lot of people in society that are viciously, fiercely anticapitalism.

David [00:50:56] Well, when I ask those people to tell me their version of capitalism, what they inevitably describe is what I and others who study this call sociopathic capitalism, the sociopathic version of capitalism, where I manipulate you into buying what you don't need at a price you can't afford. And I'll manipulate you so well that I'll convince you that doing that makes you happy. That's sociopathic capitalism. Or I'll make profits at the expense of killing off the environment. That's sociopathic capitalism. When I ask people who are anticapitalist what they, how they define capitalism, they invariably define sociopathic capitalism. They have no idea that there's such a thing as healthy capitalism or collaborative capitalism, the way that you and I know about where we're creating win wins. And then there's a third group that defines capitalism in a way that has nothing to do with capitalism. They're defining a completely different economic system that I call debtism, which is borrowing against an uncertain future in order to prop up the illusion of a lifestyle in the present. There's nothing about capitalism that has anything to do with that. That's a completely different economic system. It has nothing to do with capitalism. So if we don't sit down and really look at what our structures really are, what is our economy based on? Well, we have an economy just to finish up this little strand.

David [00:52:30] We have an economy that's based on an assumption that perpetual growth is good.

David [00:52:41] And most people just buy it. They buy it as an economic assumption. That's an example of a belief system that has an assumption that's neither verifiable nor and verifiable. It's neither Chern or false. That perpetual growth is good. What we have to have the courage to look at is what are the costs of perpetual growth? What are the prices of perpetual growth? And is there a way to continue to grow simply because evolution is part of our makeup? But to not make growth the boss of us. What about the notion of enough Nisse? What about the notion of sustainability and looking at growth in that in those as frames of reference?

David [00:53:25] So unless until we find the courage to say we have to evaluate, reevaluate what patriotism is, what the American dream is, and if we're in the United States or what the dream of our country is or elsewhere, what economics looks like, what happiness looks like. What growth looks like, what alignment with being stewards of a planet looks like until we have the courage to sit down and ask these kinds of questions without getting into polarized, divisive arm wrestling matches over ideological addiction. We will continue to devolve into the the opposite of utopian future. Well, it's it's a dystopian future that we are actually co creating right now. And yet, at the same time, everyone says, well, we don't want a dystopian future, but no, no, we're not going to look at our basic assumptions. That's nuts thinking. That's insane. That is cultural opposite of mental health as a culture.

Ari [00:54:30] You know, I like I like that you you put it that way because in a lot of a lot of people I've talked to have issues sometimes just saying it like it is, you know. And the truth is, is that if you're not saying something as it is matter of factly, then you're doing a disservice to the situation at hand, you know? And so to say something like that's insane thinking is going to cause people to say, I'm thinking that way and I'm not insane. Right. Therefore, you must be insane for saying exactly there to be insane.

Ari [00:55:16] Thank you so much for listening to part one of this interview. Stay tuned for the next episode when we resume this conversation right from where we left off.

Ari [00:55:26] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you.

Ari [00:55:33] If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, create a new tomorrow Acom and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out.

Ari [00:55:51] And look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Eric Malzone, a podcasting machine. Over 600 plus interviews on three different podcasts. He's also a cross-fit master and used to own a couple of cross-fit gyms. He's competed in cross-fit games and he is really a major influencer in the fitness and health industry.

Now Eric is sharing with us tips and tricks on how the process of decision-making has huge implications in our lives. 

Don't be afraid to fail as failure is the learning process. Be Brave and Be Bold. 

Episode Highlights

Eric [00:03:24] Right. Or like a cage rattling event. Right. I think those are two of the most. Critical things that cause this type of change in your life and everyone, if you haven't had an earth or a cage rattling event your life yet, you're going to have one. It's just going to happen.

Eric [00:07:16] It was easy. It was easier than I ever thought it was going to be to sell a property. Now, I don't have any fear of selling a property ever again. So that's the framework I would have people go through, as you know. What's the worst possible thing could happen 10 years from now? I regret having not tried. And lastly, what's the tiniest first step in that direction?

Ari [00:07:35] Let's extrapolate that out and say, you know, we're using this framework for somebody who is wanting to get healthy.

Ari [00:10:49] You know, it's it's funny. One of my my close friends is famous for having lost the most weight on a pretty famous show called The Biggest Loser. And that set what he went through. Sounds to me like the jail that you're talking about. And when he did that, yes, he was the guy who.

Eric [00:19:56] On that flight, is that plane on course and the answer, it varies but doesn't really matter, we'll say it's eight percent. So. Ninety two percent the time that plane is course correcting. Now it knows it's going to Boston. It's going to get to Boston. But most people don't know where their plane is going. And that's where the first question is. It's like, OK, let's just talk about this. What does success look like here? Right. For you personally, both professionally, personally, what is success look like? Now, let's build out something that'll get you to that point, because people just get into it. And then when I ask people what is success look like?

Eric [00:24:44] And the more. I would love to just work with five people who impact millions. Right. And help them increase their impact. I don't want to be the guy out in front. The face of anything. I want to be the guy behind whispering in the person's ear. Here's how I can help you do this. Here are some ideas. Let's put this forward. Right. And helping those people and supporting them, that that's the type of role I would want to be the Scottie Pippen to Michael Jordan's. That's taken me 43 years in my plans. Realize that's the role I'm good at. What does that look like in a actual manifestation for lack of a better term? I want to have about. 20 to 30 acres here in Montana. The place where people can gather just to innovate and solve some of the world's biggest problems. And that's that's just what I want to do. That's like my retirement goal, which is not retirement at all. It's actually a lot of activity and passion poured into it. But that's that's the vision I have, is I want to have a place where people can take away distraction, focus on the problems, collaborate together, and really may come up with some innovative solutions. That would. That's my dream, man.

Ari [00:32:56] Yeah. Well, I have appreciated our friendship, even though we've never really met in person. I think that we've had just these moments in time where we've both been in some transition or some place and we've been able to help propel each other forward a little bit. Even, even microscopically. And and so I appreciate who you are, what you do in the world. I mean, to be somebody who doesn't like to be in the front and to have done six hundred podcasts, it's no small feat.

Resources and Links

• https://level5mentors.com/
• https://www.futureoffitness.co/
• https://www.facebook.com/eric.malzone.7
• https://CreateANewTomorrow.com
• https://www.facebook.com/arigronich

Full Transcription

Ari&Eric Malzone.mp3

Ari [00:00:00] As it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down.

Ari [00:00:50] I'm Ari Gronich and this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:00] Welcome to another episode of Create a New Tomorrow.

Ari [00:01:04] We are back with Eric Malzone, podcasting extraordinaire, fitness expert, health expert and entrepreneurial coach. Eric, welcome. Thank you so much for being here

Eric [00:01:18] Thank you, Ari. Always a pleasure.

Ari [00:01:20] Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about your journey that you've had. So we talked a little bit last time about kind of your history. But what do we tell talk about the journey of pivot? Right. So the moments in which you have had to or chosen to pivot, one of the things you mentioned previously is how you were working in a corporate kind of setting and you were realizing that that wasn't fitting who you really wanted to be. And I had a question about that.

Ari [00:01:57] And the question was the psychology behind it, because there are so many people who drive to work every day in their metal coffins and go to the same job, do the same thing every single day, come home. Maybe they kiss their wife or kid and go to sleep and then do it all over again. So you are able to break yourself free from the trap as I as I would call it. Tell us what that psychology was. What was it in you that had to get out?

Eric [00:02:33] Yeah, I'm I'm thinking really hard on that answer you know, I think. There's a couple of things and motivational. We'll go into actually, I have a framework for this decision process. I call big scary decisions and we'll we'll get into that three or four step process that I go through when I'm calculating what it would I want to do.

Eric [00:02:53] And, you know, a lot of the major bigger moves ones that people would be like, well, I can't believe you actually did that. I was a big move, you know, from, you know. Pulling the ejector seat in corporate America and a very cozy situation to selling a business and leaving a community that I spent a lot time building and for the complete unknown. I think sometimes it's the motivation or inspiration, whatever it is, or a combination of both can come from some sort of epiphany.

Eric [00:03:24] Right. Or like a cage rattling event. Right. I think those are two of the most. Critical things that cause this type of change in your life and everyone, if you haven't had an earth or a cage rattling event your life yet, you're going to have one. It's just going to happen.

Eric [00:03:43] Say you got that wild idea. Should I start a business? Should I move on? Should I. Is this relationship I mean, good for me or whatever may be I'm going to help you by by giving you three really, really powerful questions.

Eric [00:03:55] And the first question, number one is, if I pursue this route, I'm thinking, what's the worst possible thing that can happen? Now, this is a stoic philosophy thing. Right. So when I started my first business. I asked myself, OK, what's the worst possible thing that could happen right now?

Eric [00:04:15] You know, I had about a year's worth of living in my savings, and that's like bare minimum living, just food and maybe shelter. I'm like, well, the worst thing could happen as this thing goes belly up within a year. I'm sleeping in the gym and then I'm gonna have to go call someone in my family. Hey, guys. Crash on your couch. And then I go back into corporate America.

Eric [00:04:34] That was it , I was like, well, that's not that scary. So I'm no longer that scared. Let's boil this down and what's the worse possible thing that can happen? Right now, my wife and I are like, you know, we always talk about like, well, if we make this decision, we do this thing. What's the worst possible thing happen? We just live in our van, right. We've got a converted van. I'm like, well, that's actually not that scary. That sounds kind of cool, right? So we start looking at what's worst possible thing can happen and boil it down. Then you get a really good understanding what the risk is. We'll tell all these tales in our minds of what's this? Well, what could happen and the things that are risky and but ultimately, there's probably. Well, this leads me to the next question.

Eric [00:05:10] Question number one. What's the worst possible thing to happen?

Eric [00:05:13] Question number two. Ten years from now, will I regret not having tried?

Eric [00:05:18] So this puts us in a different frame, puts us forward looking back right, and asking myself if I'm and what it does is it pushes you kind of like when I pull the ejector seat of corporate America, I push myself 10 years for myself and I like that Eric. And that Eric definitely wanted to have me to try. At this point. So then you can owe it to yourself, your future self to try or not to try.

Eric [00:05:43] Right. But if you go, you ask that question. But I now think I'd ever really regret not trying this. Then don't do it. Don't do it right. It doesn't mean enough to you.

Eric [00:05:51] The third one is what is the tiniest first step? That I can take in that direction.

Eric [00:05:58] When I decided to sell my business in 09, the tiniest first step for me was. Figuring out what the tiny first step was, which is like, OK, I'm going to have a couple of phone calls of people who've done this before. Was it harmless? Right. Not committing to anything, but it gets me one foot down the road. Next thing was like, well, I guess I need to come up with a nondisclosure agreement. So whoever I talk to, you won't say anything. No problem. Got that from our friend. Next one. What's the creative list of potential buyers? OK, cool. You see where this is going? Just one step after the other. And then eventually, weeks, months, years go by. It's done.

Eric [00:06:38] And I guess the bonus question, and that is I would ask yourself, what if it was easy? What if it was easy?

Eric [00:06:46] We also paint these pictures of these things being incredibly difficult and sometimes you say, well, what if it was easy? You know, like we just sold a home in California and I made all these stories up in my mind about how challenging housing is going to be and going to work these real estate agents and all this. And I got to do the renters. Michael, what if it is easy? Well, it happened and like, well, I would just call my renters, see if they want to buy it.

Eric [00:07:11] And I did. And they did. And they bought it. And that was it.

Eric [00:07:16] It was easy. It was easier than I ever thought it was going to be to sell a property. Now, I don't have any fear of selling a property ever again. So that's the framework I would have people go through, as you know. What's the worst possible thing could happen 10 years from now? I regret having not tried. And lastly, what's the tiniest first step in that direction?

Ari [00:07:35] Let's extrapolate that out and say, you know, we're using this framework for somebody who is wanting to get healthy.

Ari [00:07:47] Right.

Ari [00:07:48] So they want to get healthy and they don't know who they're going to be without that victim role of being unhealthy.

Ari [00:07:59] Whatever it looks like to them. So what's the worst thing that could happen? I don't I don't get healthy. Right. Next thing, what is the first step, how was that that was the next one, right?

Eric [00:08:17] Yeah. Well, it goes let's walk that through anecdotally. So someone is unhealthy in there.

Eric [00:08:22] They know that they need to do something or they feel that, you know, obviously this track they're on isn't that great. So the first question would be, what's the worst thing can happen if I engage in this new health routine? Well, the worst thing can happen is I'm right back where I am now.

Eric [00:08:37] There's nothing to lose. Literally nothing to lose. Maybe you spend some money, right, on a coach? I don't know.

Ari [00:08:44] Lose your excuses. Give up your excuses.

Eric [00:08:48] Yeah. That's the worst possible thing. No one is. You're not going to get, you know. No one's going to die. I mean, you could if you if you see on this path, let's be honest. Well, we're we're all going to die someday. That's a whole nother conversation.

Eric [00:08:59] But, you know, you see, I mean, it's like no one's going to get critically injured or there's going to be anything you're you're going to be stepping.

Eric [00:09:05] So you answer that question of, well, what's worst possible thing can happen. Well, that's not that scary. That that's the worst possible thing is not that scary. So then 10 years from now, I regret not having tried this new program. Probably. Right.

Eric [00:09:19] You probably won't be thinking about this right now if you work, and I regret it. And then the last one is like, well, what's the tiniest first step? And I think for this particular person that we're talking about, that's a critical question, because the tiniest first step doesn't mean I got to go to the gym four times a week. I have to eat veggies and chicken. I got to do all these things.

Eric [00:09:36] The tiniest first step could be I'm going to drink 50 ounces of water every day or I'm going to set an appointment with a health professional or I'm going to walk my dog every day. Right. Like, that's the tiniest little first step. And that's what I think a lot of people miss, is their fitness and health routines as they try to take on too much at once. They don't build the habits that layer upon themselves. And they see failure.

Eric [00:10:02] Right. Because, you know, there's a John, if you're familiar with him, as this great framework is like there's three different ways that you cause change in someone's life from a health and fitness pressure. Either you you put him in jail, right? You send him to fat camp for four weeks. You shame them. They come out that, you know, with all they have is vegetables and water. That's all they can eat. Right.

Eric [00:10:22] Jail. There's the the epiphany event. A divorce, a critical diagnosis, something like that. That's just. People will change, right. They're finally motivated. The last one is baby steps. You know, little steps over the long haul make a huge difference. And it's that long haul isn't even that long. Right. It's not as long as people think if you're taking the proper steps. So that's how I would approach that thought process.

Ari [00:10:49] You know, it's it's funny. One of my my close friends is famous for having lost the most weight on a pretty famous show called The Biggest Loser. And that set what he went through. Sounds to me like the jail that you're talking about. And when he did that, yes, he was the guy who.

Ari [00:11:17] Lost the most weight. He's also one of the guys who's gained some of the most weight back.

Ari [00:11:28] Well, why is that? That's because it wasn't indoctrinated into his cells, right? You know, it wasn't indoctrinated into his cells. It was very set period of time that they were filming this show and not creating lifestyle habits, but creating habits that were based on competition. So, yes, get them. You lose the most, do the most, eat the least, etcetera. But not training them how to live a healthy lifestyle in general. And what you're talking about is really the beginning of living a lifestyle of health vs. doing something as an emergency, kind of a situation of mere emergency procedure versus something that gets long term results. Right.

Eric [00:12:19] Yeah, I think it's also a chicken and egg question of what comes for success or motivation. Right. Because they feed into each other. But you need something you need like a little bit of success that feeds the motivation, that gets more success, that gets the flywheel spinning. And I think I have a friend who came to me when I was actually through radio promotion. He was a deejay in Santa Barbara. He won't see names, but he was a large man over foreign pounds and part of promotion music to come into our game. And we're going to you know, I think that show you're talking about was very popular back then. And, you know, they wanted to see, hey, what can we do with this deejay? You know, maybe we can walk in thing saying, you know, the stuff I had him do and like, well, you know, just meet me at the gym at 10 a.m.. And he showed up. Mike, you don't need to work out here. You know anything. We're just going to chat. Right. Mike, let's do this again on Thursday. And he's a gym bag. I know. I just want you to get in the habit of coming here. Right? We're going to talk. You're going to get low to success. And the next thing you do is you're going to have you just bring a gallon of water with you next week. So then you start bringing a gallon of water and we still haven't worked out yet. And then we took time. And then finally, Michael. Okay. Now we're gonna start working out and start moving. I get you sweating. But he was establishing his habits in over a period of six months. He lost 100 pounds. I think the right way and super happy. We're still lifelong friends now. Love the guy. You know, he still yo yos back and forth. But that was to me, the way to approach it because he buys in and gets engagement, gives people confidence. Because here's the thing that I also look at for fitness and health is that Josh Helus was on my show and he had still one of my favorite quotes I've heard to this day out of 600 episodes.

Eric [00:13:59] And he was quoting someone else. He's like as a health and fitness professional. Just remember, you're probably only better your clients than one or two things. Just assume they're better at everything else. You probably know more than them about nutrition and exercise. They're probably better financier's. They're probably better parents. They're probably better whatever. I just assume that broadly. And then it kind of puts you in the mindset of like your humble. Right. Because I think the fitness professional and health professional can sit on their their iron throne and look down upon people and be like, why don't you have a six pack? Why can't you train hard? Right. Meanwhile, the rest, their life's a hot mess and sometimes they forget about that. It makes them unrelatable and therefore not that vulnerable. And anyway, that's that's I can go off on that now.

Eric [00:14:43] Absolutely. You know what? One of my biggest issues within the fitness and health industry, and it's something that I teach in my course, is something called program design and development.

Ari [00:14:54] So, you know, in doctors offices, because of insurance rules these days, it's a six minute visit that they have to get you in and out. So they have to learn your entire medical history in six minutes, prescribe you a procedure of some sort, whether it be a pill or a surgery or a another doctor. And you're gone. No program design, no no development, no listening to a person. But I have also hardly ever seen it in the fitness industry. Typically, it's come in for 10 sessions. We'll see where you're at and then we'll put you on for another 10 sessions. But it's not really like sitting down with somebody and saying, what is your lifestyle like? What is your food intake like? What is your health like? What is your community around you like? What are the things that people are saying? What is your philosophy on on life? You know, what are the obstacles that may come in the way of having this work and really going down and deep and dirty with somebody about their life so that you can then create a program that's designed around them so that they have a bigger, better chance of of success and getting the results you want. And I had to do this with Olympic athletes who would come in. They would have injuries and and things, and their coaches would be telling that they'll never be as good as as they were. And I would tell them, you know. I would tell them the same thing I would tell you and everybody else is you can be a hundred and ten percent of anything you thought possible. If we create the steps and execute the plan correctly, you don't have to have that. You know, that injury doesn't have to be a death sentence. Your illness doesn't have to be a death sentence. The lifestyle that you have now doesn't have to be the lifestyle that you continue on. And the idea is, if we can program design it, we'll get results. If we're not program designing it, it's kind of like Jim Roen says, you know, you're either going to arrive, you'll win no matter what. You will arrive somewhere. You're either going to arrive at a well planned destination or an unplanned destination. I don't think you want to arrive at the unplanned destination. Right.

Ari [00:17:25] So in the fitness industry as a business, right? How often have you seen personal trainers create a plan for their business? Say, OK, I'm starting here is a trainer and this person is gym and I'm going to move into this position and then I'm going to move into that position. You know, I'm going to grow my business or or doing that with their clients. So it works both ways, both on the entrepreneurial side as well as the health and fitness side. Is create a plan and then executed and sounds to me, as you said when you did that you were getting to know him, having conversations with him, you know, sharing that you actually gave a shit about him. Right. Which is another big thing that a lot of people don't feel like the health care professionals really care about them at this point because all they do is run them in and out like an assembly line.

Eric [00:18:25] Yeah, so there's a lot to unpack what you just said. Spot on. I think what you're what you're describing, too, is the difference between a professional coach and a trainer. Right. She's now. Today's recording, 8/26/2020. We're still in the middle of Covid and one of the biggest disruptions of the fitness industry, the biggest disruption the fitness industry has ever seen. You know, I think that type of person who just goes session a session without a plan is now exposed because without that tool of working one on one and selling a 10 pack training sessions, there's no there's nothing to it. Now, if you're a coach and you understand the goals and Covid hits, you can still deliver the goods because you understand the big picture. Right. You don't need a specific dumbbell to get that job done. You don't need access to the gym necessarily to get that job done. So I think that's really critical of what you're talking about when I'm hoping for the fitness industry is that through this we will rise up and become professional as an industry because this other model that's been around for far too long is no longer viable. So, yes, and the relation between fitness and business is, so mesmerizes me with how similar it is. And I think you to hit your analogy with another one, as we always say, hey, you know, when a flight leaves San Francisco and it's flying to Boston. Right. Once wheels are up. What percentage of time?

Eric [00:19:56] On that flight, is that plane on course and the answer, it varies but doesn't really matter, we'll say it's eight percent. So. Ninety two percent the time that plane is course correcting. Now it knows it's going to Boston. It's going to get to Boston. But most people don't know where their plane is going. And that's where the first question is. It's like, OK, let's just talk about this. What does success look like here? Right. For you personally, both professionally, personally, what is success look like? Now, let's build out something that'll get you to that point, because people just get into it. And then when I ask people what is success look like?

Eric [00:20:30] Well, you know, I'd like to make ten grand a month. And, you know, maybe own my own, Gym, someday. No. Scratch that.

Eric [00:20:38] What do you want out of life? Right. Let's start there, because that'll be way more exciting. And maybe let's make it a little bit bigger than what you think it could be to really get in. Right. And then we can start building that plan out. That works backwards. And a great conversation with a very successful trainer. And, you know, after he recruited me on his show, he's like, hey, you know, I kind of stuck with this for a long time. And when we got on another call, we started talking about his his business and he was just in the grind. Right. And he's like, well, I want to build out this whole platform. I want to do this and this. I want to help integrate the changes between, you know, this physical therapy world in this world. And I'm like, well, OK.

Eric [00:21:18] Why?

Eric [00:21:19] What does that mean? And turns out all you really want to do is have more time freedom. Right. Make a little bit more money. That was it. I'm like, well, if that's the goal, we don't need to build anything.

Ari [00:21:29] Right.

Eric [00:21:30] We can just optimize what you have right now. Right. It makes put some rules in place. And I think that's the big thing is where you're going as like, hey, let's let's look at what's the sixth what is success look like? Why is that important to you? Is it really what you want? Right. Is it really aligned with your values? Because sometimes you're just chasing someone else's dream because you read it somewhere and then you get there and you're like, I'm frickin miserable. Right. So, yeah, man, it's all about the plan, but it's it's about knowing where your plane is going first

Ari [00:21:58] And where it is to begin with.

Ari [00:22:00] You know, if you're from Argentina and you think you're in Peru, you're not you're not going to go see it be a bumpy ride. Exactly. So, you know, knowing where you are, where you going is really good. I've had a question for a couple of years now, and that is because on your show, I said something that you said nobody else has ever said. We were talking on the future of fitness and. You asked me what I thought, what I thought the future of fitness was going to be. And I said, nanotechnology. Do you remember this? I said, Yeah. And you said, oh, well, it was like I stumped you because nobody had ever said nanotechnology before. So I has anybody has said that since.

Eric [00:22:54] I don't think so. I think I've actually gotten away from that particular question, too, for some reason. I think I found a different formula for my questioning. But. When I am when people ask me now. You know, with some of the technology you think is going to emerge out of this whole thing. Nanos in the top 10 now, you know for sure. So, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it's very futuristic. Kind of scary. Kind of black mirrorish, right? 

Ari [00:23:26] Yeah. I it's always intrigued me that after I think at that point you had over 80 interviews that you had done that nobody else said had said that. And and to me, I think it's you know, it is the future. It's what what we're all moving towards. And if we don't make a good plan, then that technology can can really override our humanity in some ways. So we have to be really careful with how how we plan and how we think about it and what we're what we're looking to do. So tell me, what what do you want to create in the world? I know you have a mastermind. You're doing these these podcasts. What what's your end goal? What is the thing that would if you had a legacy to leave or leave, what would that be and why?

Eric [00:24:23] Yeah, so there's, I actually have broken the sound in quite detail, but I'll just kind of talk with, like, you know, my professional career, what I want. And this is why Ken and I worked together really well. And they associate that we're looking at bringing all work together really well.

Eric [00:24:38] We want the same thing as we want to impact those who impact others.

Eric [00:24:44] And the more. I would love to just work with five people who impact millions. Right. And help them increase their impact. I don't want to be the guy out in front. The face of anything. I want to be the guy behind whispering in the person's ear. Here's how I can help you do this. Here are some ideas. Let's put this forward. Right. And helping those people and supporting them, that that's the type of role I would want to be the Scottie Pippen to Michael Jordan's. That's taken me 43 years in my plans. Realize that's the role I'm good at. What does that look like in a actual manifestation for lack of a better term? I want to have about. 20 to 30 acres here in Montana. The place where people can gather just to innovate and solve some of the world's biggest problems. And that's that's just what I want to do. That's like my retirement goal, which is not retirement at all. It's actually a lot of activity and passion poured into it. But that's that's the vision I have, is I want to have a place where people can take away distraction, focus on the problems, collaborate together, and really may come up with some innovative solutions. That would. That's my dream, man.

Ari [00:25:56] That's awesome. That is awesome. Now, one of one of my. Plans and I had mentioned this before, Covid hit.

Ari [00:26:06] But as I've been doing men's circles and things like that since 2000, and I wanted to translate the the men's circle into a corporate circle and have events like that at a location that's completely taking away all distractions and not do these boring, you know, trust falls and team building things necessarily that that we've seen for the last 50, 60 years. But sit still, sit around a fire and say, what do you want to create in this world? What do you want your corporation to be known for? What do you want your company to produce for this society? Right. And then how do we take that and actualize it, make it an action step that really moves the world forward. So I totally resonate with what you're saying. You know, my brother teaches survival training. He's taught Marines. He's taught both urban and wilderness. And so I was thinking, you know, he's been a teacher his whole life, never been an entrepreneur. And I was thinking this would be a great opportunity to include him in a. And a purpose that he would love. Right. Which is to move the world forward. You know, he likes comic books. Superheroes are are his thing. And so how can we create more superheroes? And when I hear somebody say I want to be somebody who impacts the impactors, I think of the superheroes that are kind of the the leaders of superhero tribes. Right. So whether it's an X-Men and you've got the professor or whatever it is, you know, sounds like you want to be the professor. And, you know, you've got the gray by ear that could really evolve into your superhero persona.

Eric [00:28:25] Yeah. Thank you.

Ari [00:28:27] And, you know, just be the puppet master. No, not the puppet master. But, you know, the director, the guy who's taken on the challenge of working with with those. And I've actually been really blessed because my guest the other day I was telling you about Sesh. He he's been an adviser to the World Bank. He's been an adviser to countries. He's helped countries with their transportation systems and their infrastructure systems. He's totally behind the scenes. Nobody. This guy is unless you're in that world. But the people that he influences, you know, are people like Tony Robbins, people, you know, he's the mentor to the mentors, the guru to the gurus. And it sounds like that's kind of a role that you're wanting to play it towards, towards this next phase of your life. And, you know, I'm I'm a little different. I've been the behind the scenes guy. I've been the entourage, is what I what I call it, I've I've been the guy who's training the Olympic athlete who then gets the gold and gets the accolades. And right now, I'm transitioning into being more on the front stage, you know, and being loud, being the person, because I haven't seen what I want to see, right. We always say strife propels us forward. So what strife has propelled you forward? Lately that that makes you want to have this kind of impact.

Eric [00:30:10] Yeah, man, I you know, honestly, I'd say it's it's inspiration to you. Meaning can and kind of figure out what it is that I really want to do and seeing how our values align. But ultimately, you know, I think if I boiled it down to something more simpler is I really want to see my wife's dreams come true. And I know Ken has the exact same life goals because not only do I love my wife. And we've been through some shit together. And it's amazing that we've made it through it and we get to really work on ourselves and our partnership.

Eric [00:30:41] But she's got awesome dreams, man. Way better than what I could have thought of personally. So I'm like yeah. You know, I. I like what she's doing, I think.

Eric [00:30:50] I don't know if that's strife, but it's just, you know, I see her still in our corporate gig and kind of grinding it out even though she gets work remotely. But, you know, I think that's that's something that would really make me happy. And I don't know if there's strife. I think it's more just inspiration. And, you know, how an urgency to give her what she wants at the earliest age possible.

Ari [00:31:10] Yeah. Well, it seems to me the strife is that she's still doing what she doesn't want to do. Yes, exactly. And you know, your. Love for her is to get her as quickly as possible to do what she loves to do and watch what her geniuses. And I think that you have that for all of your clients, for all of the people that you influence. I don't think you do this out of your ego needing to be the the leader of a podcast. I think you do it out of your love for an industry and your want and need for it to change and grow and become bigger than it's been. And that, to me, is a noble strife.

Eric [00:31:58] No, thank you, man. And it's true. I don't I'm not you know, it's signed up for grabs is like I hired Nicole Spencer because she's a brilliant marketer and can coach to help me do social media stuff. And she gave me she gave me the road map, man. Like, this is what you need to do. And this is this much social, this much. And I realized in going through the process that I hate it. I hate doing Facebook lives and talking about myself. I hate doing all these things. I'm like, OK, well, thank you for, you know, every penny I spent on your own investment accused worth it. Because I now realize with un with no doubt in my mind that I don't like to be. That's the center. I'd much rather highlight people on my show, talk about them, be supportive of them. And that's just where I'm more comfortable. And maybe that's a comfort issue. I don't know. But that's a I can talk about myself. I guess I just did for an hour with you. Yeah. You know that that's the way I like to be, man. And yeah, it's I think you're you're very observant.

Ari [00:32:56] Yeah. Well, I have appreciated our friendship, even though we've never really met in person. I think that we've had just these moments in time where we've both been in some transition or some place and we've been able to help propel each other forward a little bit. Even, even microscopically. And and so I appreciate who you are, what you do in the world. I mean, to be somebody who doesn't like to be in the front and to have done six hundred podcasts, it's no small feat.

Ari [00:33:39] You know, most people.

Ari [00:33:42] Would sit here with the camera on and never hit record.

Ari [00:33:49] If they even got to where the camera was.

Ari [00:33:53] Right.

Ari [00:33:55] I know for me, I grew up in Hollywood. And I hated myself on camera. I've always been told, you know, my dad used to tell me I have a great face for radio. And so, you know, I always hated myself on camera. It takes a lot for me to get comfortable doing something that's a video related thing. But my purpose is bigger than my fear. And I know that the things I have to say need to get said and the things that I have to say. People need to hear. And so that propels me to speak up and get loud and do it hopefully as often as possible. So, you know, like I said, I really appreciate you coming. Let's tell people how they can find you, what what you're doing right now and how they can be of support or how you could be of support to them.

Eric [00:34:55] Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for asking that. And I appreciate your kind words, man. I'm I'm really excited that you're getting out front. So I think it's it's overdue.

Eric [00:35:05] You can find me a couple of different places. I think www.level5mentors.com Is probably the best place. You can email me at [email protected]. I actually do answer all my e-mails. I'm very active on LinkedIn and of course you can find my podcasts at the futureoffitness.co. And then the Black Diamond podcast, which is all over ITunes and all the outlets you can listen to it. But it's also housed at levelfivementors.com. So that's where to find me. Eric Malzone, there's only a couple of us out there. If you want to Google me too. There's a Brazilian and there's a an American. I'm the American. And yeah, it's a lot different ways to find me.

Ari [00:35:46] How did that happen, you're married to a Brazilian.

Eric [00:35:49] I am.

Eric [00:35:49] It's weird. A lot of Italians ended up in Brazil.

Eric [00:35:52] Yeah, I think there's more Italians in Brazil than there are in Italy. There are none. It sounds weird. I think it's true. Fact. Check me on that.

Ari [00:36:01] Thank you so much for for coming on. I highly recommend you check out level five ads and Black Diamond, as well as Future Fitness podcast if you're anywhere near the fitness industry or are interested in getting healthy.

Ari [00:36:15] I mean, you're gonna hear some great advice and some great tools that you could use tomorrow. So I ask this at the end of every podcast, three things that are actionable steps that somebody can take tomorrow, today, now to change their life for the better.

Eric [00:36:35] Yeah, we'll call somebody that's a good friend you haven't talked to in a long time. That's number one. Make a list of everything that went well for you today. Go do something fun, man, go do something you enjoy. I think it's, We get so caught up in it and work and tasks and all that, like go do something that makes you makes you laugh. Simple.

Ari [00:37:01] That's awesome. Thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate it. And I look forward to seeing everybody back here on the next episode of Create a New Tomorrow. Thank you very much and have a healthy day.

Ari [00:37:16] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you.

Ari [00:37:23] If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, create a new tomorrow Acom and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out.

Ari [00:37:41] And look forward to seeing you take the lead. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.

Eric Chessen is the founder of Autism Fitness. He's an exercise physiologist with an extensive background in applied behavior analysis. And Eric has been working with the ASTM population of all ages for nearly 20 years. Eric is on a mission to help kids with Autism he has extensive work with individuals with developmental disabilities with a specific focus on young individuals (4-21) with an autism spectrum disorder. Particular emphasis on program and curriculum instruction and implementation of adaptive fitness programs as well as staff training. Innovative problem-solving techniques. Strong abilities in group settings.

Listen, create awareness, and be motivated with Eric Chessen. 

Episode Highlights

Ari [00:07:13] And yet you've managed to produce enough results that you've now had 400 other plus people want to learn and create, as you know, learn your system and create that kind of effect in their communities and society.

Eric [00:14:56] Yeah. You know, like anything else right now, it's a challenge. And there are certain aspects of it that that that we can that we can speak to or that we can we can take action on. So with our our certified pros who go through our our level one course. And they were I'm proud of the fact that we've been told our level one exam is one of the hardest, if not the hardest exam that they've ever taken in a in any type of certification course. And we also offer ongoing training and education for everyone who's gone through our our level one course as well, too.

Ari [00:18:17] Right. And so what would be your approach? Because, you know, I believe that the issues with the differences in our communities of medical practitioners is one of language, of understanding. And if we can understand each other, we can collaborate more to get better results. So what would be your approach?

Eric [00:24:17] Would you want everybody else coming and it's almost like the educated consumer. Hey, if someone has if a reputable car dealer has someone coming in who already knows all about that car, part of their job.

Ari [00:38:39] Why aren't we taking. Why aren't you. I'll challenge you. Why are you not taking this to a set of geeks in a lab in white coats who only do you only do testing and love it. And yet what you're doing to have provable scientifically, not just clinical or anecdotal, but scientifically provable results?

Eric [00:39:10] Well, we are we are doing that as well. We have won one of our loved one graduates who wrote a thesis paper on implementing the pack profile. We have some more interesting research that's going to be conducted in the next in the next year at Yale. So there will inevitably be cited scientific data or rigorous scientific study using a methodology, using a methodology that coincides with a paper that will wind up in a journal

Resources and Links

• https://autismfitness.com/
• https://www.facebook.com/eric.chessen
• https://CreateANewTomorrow.com
• https://www.facebook.com/arigronich

Full Transcription

Ari [00:00:01] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down.

Ari [00:00:50] I'm Ari Gronich and this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.

Ari [00:01:00] Welcome back to the Create a new tomorrow show with our Gronich, the performance therapist. Today I have with me Eric Chessen, the founder of Autism Fitness. He is an exercise physiologist with an extensive background in applied behavior analysis. Eric's been working with the ASD population of all ages and abilities for nearly 20 years.

Ari [00:01:24] He's produced some training for other fitness professionals to be able to do the same and actually has over four hundred people that he is trained to work with that population. Eric, welcome.

Eric [00:01:38] Thank you. Are you happy to be here? Thanks for having me on.

Ari [00:01:41] Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about your background. How does applied behavior analysis and autism go together and autism fitness go together? What what is what is that about?

Eric [00:01:55] Yeah. So my background originally was as a personal trainer, working with general population, and I had an opportunity to start working with the autism population via a classmate that I had in graduate school. I was studying principles of human behavior and behavior analysis. So when I started working in the program and and getting what we would call dual training, continuing my education and fitness and exercise science, getting trained in the principles and practices of applied behavior analysis, I realized that there was this chasm, this big gap between disciplines. And over the course of a few years, I started taking on on the role of of being the bridge. I really look at it as being the educational bridge between the fitness world and the best that we have to offer and the best information that we have in on the fitness side and the autism population, meaning all of those people, family members, professionals, therapists associated with caring for and providing interventions for an education for the autism population. So, you know, in doing that and having created a methodology to pack profile, which is physical, adaptive and and cognitive. The reason that our program works and it works in a variety of different ways, but the reason it has been successful and has been externally validated by so many people is because it's based in sound principles from different fields of practice that are all related to the autism population. So what we did was we made strategies and and concepts that already had efficacy and we put them together in a system and then went about proving that the system works. And what's nice is I don't really have to prove that the system works anymore. Now I get to teach people how to incorporate and implement the system.

Ari [00:04:04] Nice. Very nice. It sounds like you've done a lot of integration of different modalities from different professions within the medical world. Right

Eric [00:04:14] So, yeah.

Eric [00:04:16] And that's what I love to I love seeing similarities. Or you see a concept or you see a premise that works in one field of study or one area of life. And you see that, you see it work elsewhere. And when one of the things that we talk about in our program is what I refer to as Bonzai coaching, where we are taking away not only distraction, but we're taking away any excess that we don't need in the program. And I like the analogy because its one to give someone a visual, but it's also a way that we can ground ourselves both in programing and I think psycho psychologically, emotionally in what is the most important thing to do right now. Instead of trying to do everything, we want to focus on one or two really important things. And it's all about creating a hierarchy. And whenever I see something and again, in one field of practice or one, you know, you take something from engineering and you can apply it to it, to the study of nature or biology or chemistry. I love finding synchronicity three things, because that's how you have a concept or a premise that is transcendent. You know, it can be carried over from one space to another. Which again, is another reason why our system is work so well because we can speak the languages of all these different therapists and professionals. You know, we can speak to an occupational therapist knowing their world the same. We can teach it the same way we can speak to. Therapist or parent or or a speech pathologist, etcetera.

Ari [00:06:05] Yeah, that to me. You're speaking my language, so to speak, because I always am telling people that if we're going to integrate our care and get the results that we want to get within the systems that we're creating, we have to learn how to speak the language of other modalities. We have to learn what they speak like, because in a lot of cases, a doctor does not speak the same language as a chiropractor who does not the same language as a massage therapist, who does not speak the same language as a personal trainer, etcetera. And the problem that I've seen within integration and integrating care is that if they don't speak the same language or they don't even know how to collaboratively speak that language, then you get the results that we really want and results.

Ari [00:06:56] To me, I'm the performance therapist. That is the thing that I had to do. And in your case, you're working with an autistic population there. There are probably, at least at the beginning, wasn't a lot of expectation of results.

Eric [00:07:13] Sure.

Ari [00:07:13] And yet you've managed to produce enough results that you've now had 400 other plus people want to learn and create, as you know, learn your system and create that kind of effect in their communities and society.

Ari [00:07:30] So, you know, part of this is about building a movement, creating a movement that is results based so that we can make our society a better place to live.

Ari [00:07:45] And where where have you found both the the flaws, the obstacles, as well as the benefits in creating this movement that you've created?

Eric [00:08:02] That the flaws in terms of flaws. I think the general. Misunderstanding and misappropriation of what fitness actually is. And I think that's systemic throughout. You look at the US, for example, in terms of the fitness industry and you get this. Tremendous gradient scale of practitioner quality, and that might be true of other fields. I don't know. I mean, I don't I don't know in in the medical community, for example, if we're talking about a general practitioner. I don't know what the span is from the least competent to the most competent and everything in between. But I'm sure for for you as well. And knowing the fitness industry, it's for that it's unregulated and there's no actual fitness trainer license in in the US. And you get the the easy almost the cheap way to go is to know is to invoke the social media clause and say, well, look what goes on on Instagram with fitness influence or look what goes on on YouTube. And I think the major issue is that we don't really have a filter for it because at the same time, the same argument that can be made for for licensing and for having structure. The the devil's advocate or the the argument against that would be I'm I know and I'm fortunate enough to be friends and colleagues with some of the most capable, competent, really remarkable fitness professionals in in the world who had their original certification. And after that, they said, screw it. I don't I don't need it. I'm just going to train and study and be mentored by people who really know what they're doing. I think for the average person or the general population, it is difficult to distinguish or to filter out good programing from good marketing or something that makes sense for someone with respect to an exercise protocol or not, because the majority of people who contact me or who have contacted me in the past about autism, fitness. If if they have at all try to fitness program for their son or daughter or if it's in a school, it has something to do with, you know, using a treadmill or or yoga. And you have to ask, you know, obviously, if if you really want to get into what's going on, you have to ask more questions. But I think that there is not enough understanding of what fitness is and what programing can look like and what what outcome measures should should be in place as well. So I think a general. Miss misconception or misappropriation of fitness? And also the industry as a whole. And when people ask me about Homebase, you know, should I just go get a fitness DVD or should I look up this program on YouTube? I say, well, I wouldn't get a home dentistry kit. I'd go to someone who knows what they're doing with that. And the analogy isn't 100 percent crossover there. But at the same time. You also have to think, well, there are some people out there who have a good amount of education and expertize.

Ari [00:11:36] Right.

Ari [00:11:36] So one of the things that I notice about people in general is that I have never walked in and or had somebody walk in and ask me if they could interview me to see if I was qualified to work with them. Oh, sure. And so I've seen this in medical and doctors and personal trainers and in therapists of all kinds. Somebody will ask a friend. Who do you know? OK. I'll go to that person.

Ari [00:12:13] And they've never explored whether that person is right for their specific conditions. And the doctors. So one don't have enough time or aren't trained physical fitness, especially not trained in asking enough sufficient questions to be able to ascertain that an individualized program for somebody specific now with autism, you kind of have to go individual by individual.

Ari [00:12:43] Find out exactly what that particular person is needing and tailor your sessions directly to that person, not towards a group of people who have a label, meaning not everybody with diabetes has to have the same training because you need to train somebody with diabetes differently than you'll train somebody with, say, a hormone imbalance, an injury to an ankle, et cetera. And so people don't know that they can interview their therapists, their trainers. They're those people to make sure that they are qualified, that we are a qualified bunch of people. And yes, in the fitness industry, we have no state or country wide licensing and board. We have individuals. So you may get somebody who took a two two day online course who's never trained a person in their life and have somebody who has run five marathons but has never done bodybuilding. And you might have somebody. Right, who has never had experienced overweight, who is now teaching you how to lose weight, that they don't have the experience of it. And so it becomes very difficult for a consumer to really figure out who the best person is for them. And that, to me, is definitely a system wide flaw. And especially when dealing and working with the autism population, because they have to have somebody who's qualified for that.

Ari [00:14:34] So how do you make sure that the people that you've trained are qualified, especially during this time of covered, where everything that you're doing is online and it's very difficult to get somebody to take a course while they have somebody in their office at the same time that they can practice on, right?

Eric [00:14:56] Yeah. You know, like anything else right now, it's a challenge. And there are certain aspects of it that that that we can that we can speak to or that we can we can take action on. So with our our certified pros who go through our our level one course. And they were I'm proud of the fact that we've been told our level one exam is one of the hardest, if not the hardest exam that they've ever taken in a in any type of certification course. And we also offer ongoing training and education for everyone who's gone through our our level one course as well, too. And it's the impetus of that attendee or that certified pro to keep getting that education. Because if you're you're unless you get the certification to just have the information, which I don't think is the case for most people who go through our program, you're going to have more questions. You're going to you're going to continue to. As soon as you implement that first program with that first athlete, you're going to have questions. So we wanted to prepare ourselves for that also. So we make ourselves available to our certified pros, whether that's doing ongoing and continuing education work at the level to program which develop. And this is something I found interesting. We we've had a few people ask us who haven't even gone through the Level one program. They'll email us and say, hey, after the level one program, can I go right into level two? And we explained this is not about having the information, is about using the information. So our level one certified pros can't even get into the level of curriculum until they've had a year experience using the level one protocols as well. So we we are working on on different ways. One in particular that we're going to implement next or at the start of twenty twenty one is for individuals who have their loved one certification to renew and to do continuing education credits with. Also, because we want the best out there and we want there to be a standard of practice. The whole basis of the curriculum is having a standard at the highest possible standard of practice for those who are delivering fitness and moving programs to this population. So far, our certified pros having that continued education because like anything else in the fitness or movement world, all of the. And I think this could be true of just about any pedagogy that has a clinical basis or clinical practice to it. All of the really relevant questions are going to come once you start using the information.

Ari [00:17:47] Awesome. So how do you how would you approach, say, a doctor or a therapist who has I'm all about collaboration and power partners. So how would you approach a doctor or a therapist who has this population as their main population and say, I'd like to collaborate with you and I need from you this and I'm going to deliver that?

Ari [00:18:17] Right. And so what would be your approach? Because, you know, I believe that the issues with the differences in our communities of medical practitioners is one of language, of understanding. And if we can understand each other, we can collaborate more to get better results. So what would be your approach?

Eric [00:18:39] Asking questions, you know, for for any any practitioner in the medical community, in the in the fitness community and in any of those supporting fields. What does someone need or want? What does someone want to deliver? What what what do they want to offer to the clients or the patients or the athletes that they serve? And for. For example, we've had two developmental pediatricians now who have gone through the level one certification. I don't know that they are regularly running the programs, but they under this is a case where they wanted to understand the issue from the perspective of movement, because, as you said, medical professionals don't get a lot of fitness training in medical school. Right. So and it's not I don't think it's a case of needing to know everything. I think it's also important to know enough about something to know where your your amount of information is not enough and then you can refer out. So for a physician working with the autism population. I think there's there's a synergy in the practices for someone to be able to refer to me. And, you know, unfortunately, most of the time it'll be something to the effect of, oh, we have a lot of adolescents and teenagers on the autism spectrum in the pack in the practice who also happen to be obese because somewhere in the neighborhood, everything gets 43 or 44 percent of adolescents on the autism spectrum are clinically obese. So that would likely be the conversation there. But I and our certified pros are able to offer something special there in the way of we know how to do fitness programing for this population. And I'm not expecting that the physician is going to take my course and then start offering in-house fitness. Right. That's not their job, right? It shouldn't be their job. What you want is collaboration that that offers the best of of either practice the same way. I don't do any nutrition coaching for that. Do I know a little bit a little bit about nutrition? Yes. Do I have a certification or a degree in nutrition? No. But there are people who who do. So you find the people who are good at what you're not good at. And you know, enough to be able to distinguish who knows what they're talking about and who's just kind of making it up as they go along or doesn't know what they're. Doesn't know what they're doing. And you find those people and you find a way to collaborate or at least a way to refer. Right.

Ari [00:21:25] So I had a DO take my course, the Performance Therapy Academy course. And she's a professor for over twenty five years teaching other DO's. And what she said at the end of my course is. This needs to be taught by the thousands. Because I need people that I can refer to.

Ari [00:21:48] And that was the whole point of her taking the class, was to learn what I knew. Yeah. So that she knew who that who she could then send people to and who she could collaborate with. Right. And that is an unusual. Experience within our field. But if it became a grander experience, a more common experience. All of a sudden our systems would begin to shift. Because once you teach somebody something they can't unlearn. You taught them. Technically, they can with Alzheimer's dementia. But you get the point right. They can't unlearn what they just learned. So it's not that they are the ones who will be doing or delivering that service, but they know what they need to know in order to know who to send somebody else. And maybe even within the autism scale, like you might have one set of of clients then or patients that are really your bread and butter that you're perfect at. And one of your students may have decided to specialize in a different form of autism that then they could send that person to to get the better results with. Right. So just definitely in the system itself to integrate. You know, I was taught. I'm learning marketing as I have hired so many marketers that have not panned out.

Eric [00:23:24] And, yeah, that that's that's pretty much a constant. In the world of marketing, as you'll go through a lot. We've had the same experiences.

Ari [00:23:34] So I'm learning marketing in order to learn what I need to know so that when I hire somebody the next time. Yeah, gonna be able to work out for me. That doesn't mean I'm one wanting to do the marketing. Just like for you, you don't want to be the medical doctor doing surgery. Right?

Eric [00:23:51] I think a great question to ask any any professional that I may have any discipline. I don't. I don't care if it's surgery or or tree cutting or an ice cream man or what.

Eric [00:24:06] What do you know that you. What do you know of your profession that you wish everybody else knew? You know, both of the misconception. But like what? Two or three things.

Eric [00:24:17] Would you want everybody else coming and it's almost like the educated consumer. Hey, if someone has if a reputable car dealer has someone coming in who already knows all about that car, part of their job. Again, if they're reputable, maybe it's not the best example is done for them already because you have someone who knows exactly what they want as opposed to someone walking in saying, I want know a car that goes. All right. Well, we're going to spend the next. But they say, OK, I want this I want this model car. And then a lot of that a lot of that job is already done. And if you think about that from the perspective of a lot of different a lot of different professional situations, also, it doesn't mean being an expert. It it means knowing a couple of the questions to ask and some of the some of the. Again, developing a filter, being able to know. OK. This sounds this sounds logit versus I don't know about this so much.

Ari [00:25:18] I get that. So let me ask you this, because, as you know, I'm I'm a person who loves to to create conflicts and then solve the conflict. So I like to create it. Pick a fight and then figure out the solution and solve it so that that doesn't become a conflict anymore. So what do you think needs to happen in our industry in order to get people to have better results? Because if you look actually right now at the entire situation that we've been going through with with this lockdown and all that medical intervention has gone down and so has death by medicine. So they have stated and, you know, we'll have the numbers probably in a year or two. Much better. Diya dialed in. But they've said that the amount of intervention that we were doing was so great and somehow so unnecessary that it was causing more issues than it was. Solving death by medicine, I think is the number three cause of death.

Ari [00:26:32] And so what do you think needs to happen in our industry in order to shift to that system so that we are results oriented? We are collaborative in nature. What's the psychology, your behavior analysis? Right, analysts. So what's the psychology behind it that we need to really create this shift?

Eric [00:26:54] Well, first, I have the background in it, but I don't have the degree. So I don't want to. I don't want to purport to be of a profession that I am not. However, I would say I dont know if it's the fitness. I don't know if it's the fitness industry itself. And I'm sure the argument could be made of that. I think a lot of it is cultural, too. And it's this it's this reactive model. And I've seen this argument made numerous times about how, oh, the fitness industry has to shift more towards the general population or more towards the sedentary and obese population. But I don't know. You can't force someone to be your client. You can't force someone to buy something that they don't want to buy. So I don't know that it's an industry shift. So I think the industry as a whole, I don't think licensing at this point is a bad idea. I think that creating a standard of practice that is very high and based in safe, effective practices is a it's a good idea.

Eric [00:28:05] But I don't know. The short answer is I don't know.

Eric [00:28:10] The longer answer is I don't know, because I don't know if that is an an inherent issue just for the fitness industry as a whole, or it's the fitness industry in the United States dealing with the culture of the United States that tends to have tends to have some extremes. You have someone who is either a fitness enthusiast and they are motivated to participate or they're they're not at all, which seems to make up the majority of the country. I think maybe it starts in in the public sector, in schools also, and not looking at physical education or health education as a secondary class and really making it a really making it something that we're, again, speaking to along the same lines of any other educational curriculum. So so that it takes on more, more importance and a higher place in the hierarchy of of what do we really appreciate in the culture. So I think that I think it's a multi-system approach.

Ari [00:29:17] I, I completely agree. You know, one of the things I have kids and step kids then have been in schools and they have played sports. And I've gone into there into talk with their coaches about injuries and how to prevent injuries.

Ari [00:29:37] And most of them are really still doing the same thing that we did 40 years ago in P.E. class jumping jacks and stuff to warm up, but not really training a body for the sport that they're playing in, for the life they want to lead, etc.. And so it definitely needs to be more of a planned out kind of a program within schools going from very young, because nowadays kids are getting, you know, tossed into the world of agents and outs and so on at such young ages. And they don't have the entourage of therapists and trainers and people that will help them mentally and physically prepare for that sport. And so you get all kinds of injured athletes that that now can't play, have no hope. Don't think that anything's possible. And they don't have that backup like rational athlete would have. So I agree I agree completely with that.

Ari [00:30:44] I do think that the industry as it in itself has some Splaining to do as as Ricky Ricardo would say, you've got some splaining to do, you know, because if we allow somebody to become a certified personal trainer and yet they have only two days of online courses, have never anybody and really have just memorized the answers to a few questions, sir. Then we're doing them a disservice. We're doing both the consumer disservice as well as the profession at large, which is service. But that goes beyond that. It goes to the nutrition, it goes to the the medical community. They're trained in very specifically and taking care of chronic disease and emergency medicine. Right. So chronic disease, they treat. They don't want cure. They only can treat. And they, you know, work with. Emergency medicine, which they're fantastic at, right? But I had. I'll give you an example. I had a nutritionist, a dietitian who was drinking a Diet Coke in front of me.

Ari [00:32:05] And I asked her about the Diet Coke. And her response was, I like to eat my calories, not drink them. Now, she's a dietitian. She was about 50, 60 pounds overweight. And she's the person who's guiding.

Ari [00:32:25] At the time, my my wife, who was pregnant and nutrition and completely not up to date with her continuing education, or she wouldn't have been saying and doing the things she was doing and saying. But also these are the people that we're going to for our care. And so it leaves the system kind of at issue and the system of how we train consumers and how we train the people who are going to be patience in finding out who who they need to go to.

Ari [00:33:07] And this kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier, interviewing your practitioner, interviewing your trainer, interviewing the person. That is going to be working with you to find out if they're if they're qualified because you know the old joke. What do you call the person who finished last in medical school?

Ari [00:33:26] Doctor. Hmm. Right. And everybody.

Ari [00:33:31] Oh, my doctors. The best. Nobody says my doctor sucks, you should go to him, right? They say my doctor is the best. You need to go to. Well, how many doctors have you been to? How do you know if that person is the best? The best for that person?

Ari [00:33:47] How do you know what the fitness trainer is the best for somebody with autism. So how do we fix that? Is really the question that I would pose to you based on the fact that you have such specialized knowledge and you've experienced integration of multiple modalities.

Eric [00:34:06] I think demonstration is key now for the medical community and it's still will be dealt with for a physician, a way other than, you know, awards and certificates and, you know, whatever other pedigree or accomplishments they have for us. And I can only talk about, you know, with with reference to the autism population, what we're doing, because there's not really anything out there in terms of an educational system and there's nothing else out there like the PAP profile. It a systemized way to go about working with this population in a fitness capacity. Excuse me. We're working on making this the standard curriculum and that really the gold standard curriculum where this is looked at as you must proceed this this way, because there's again, it has that it has that validity. There is that proof component. There is that outcome measures and people can actually see it. You know, when we put up one of our certified pros, puts up a video of their athlete on social media and someone can actually see them, oh, they're progressing or oh, they're able to do this. That is that's a piece of proof that that we can offer. So our goal is to have the standardized system looked at as the you know, you do not pass go until this is in the conversation because we know what we're doing. Our certified pros are continuing with the education, know what they're doing and and the curriculum, the curriculum itself works. So when you're talking about a, you know, a niche population, the questions to ask are really, you know, how do you account for that? So how do you account for, you know, behavior and what's the overall goal of the program? And I think when people start listing 12 or 14 or 20 different benefits of the program, you're you're getting away from the the intention of what it's supposed to do. And it comes back to what you and I were talking about also with in terms of cognitive capacity. It also will fitness, it will functionally sound fitness programing, having have a beneficial impact on cognitive functioning for our athletes with autism. Probably. But I can't make that claim because I don't know what that's going to look like or sound like or what they observe. The observable truth outcome is going to be for any one of our athletes. I don't I don't know. So I can't speak to it until there's something that we can actually validate.

Ari [00:36:48] Right. So that's where to me the integration comes in. Because the fact of the matter is, is that we can test we ask somebody, we can put things on their brain, do MRI's we can test for these things. And so, you know, the question is, one, how do we how do we educate the public that your program is creating a standard of practice? And to the doctors, the scientists, the lab geeks who of to test things and put something to practice so that, you know, you take a client and put them through the system and then testing them the entire time before and afters because it is possible to do so.

Ari [00:37:40] How do you get them on board with, say, saying, OK, let's let's really test this out. Let's find out if this works or doesn't work and how it works or why it works or, you know, because we do have the technological ability now to do that. It's something that I've said to doctors about herbs and things, because most of them aren't tested in their whole form.

Ari [00:38:07] They're only tested by the time they become pharmaceutical. Right. Which are made mostly out of herbs. Right. And so. Well, OK. So the the excuse that I hear for not doing them, not doing supplements, not taking them from doctors from that the Western medical perspective. There's no science behind it. It's all anecdotal evidence, not scienctific. Evidence. Well, we have the ability to test this stuff. So why don't we do it?

Ari [00:38:39] Why aren't we taking. Why aren't you. I'll challenge you. Why are you not taking this to a set of geeks in a lab in white coats who only do you only do testing and love it. And yet what you're doing to have provable scientifically, not just clinical or anecdotal, but scientifically provable results?

Eric [00:39:10] Well, we are we are doing that as well. We have won one of our loved one graduates who wrote a thesis paper on implementing the pack profile. We have some more interesting research that's going to be conducted in the next in the next year at Yale. So there will inevitably be cited scientific data or rigorous scientific study using a methodology, using a methodology that coincides with a paper that will wind up in a journal. I think the the other part of that is there are so many variables in in fitness and in in movement also. So when you're talking about implementing a program. Compared to what? And this is a conversation this may be slightly away from from from the primary topic here. But I think that it it enters into the conversation. I was having a talk with one of our certified pros who has a son on the autism spectrum, who is also starting up a facility for this population. And their families fit fitness and other activity of daily living training as well. And we were talking about the scientific data or the validation or the provability of fitness being a good thing for this population. And I said, well, if you want the opposite of that, if you want to do the control the control group. We've been doing it forever because fitness has not been a part of the lives of the majority of people who are on the autism spectrum. The null hypothesis is already in because we're not comparing different fitness programs. We're comparing the fitness program to not doing anything which we know does not have the best outcomes. So then if we want to start talking about comparing our, you know, our system versus other existing systems, I'd have to see some other existing systems, not just a bunch of exercises strung together, but an actual an actual system. And then you'd also need the background information on why that set of exercises, functions, functions as a as a system. And that's why research is always going to be in the fitness world anyway. Not necessarily from the pharmaceutical world, but in the fitness world. Fitness is always going to be behind practice because practice you can innovate all day long. And in order to have there's so many, so many flawed fitness studies, because when it's happening in a lab and it's not happening in the real world, you know, when you're doing hypertrophy analysis on a single exercise instead of that exercise in conjunction with a whole program, you have an inherently flawed study because you're not actually measured. You're measuring the thing in a lab. You're not measuring it in the real world.

Ari [00:42:14] Right. Isolation. That's that's the key to why pharmaceuticals cause so many side effects, whereas the herbal component may not cause that many side effects is because they're isolating out components versus taking into consideration a whole.

Ari [00:42:33] And that's the same thing that you just the three gardell.

Eric [00:42:35] And as you mentioned earlier, also, even then, I am not an herbaligists or anywhere near it, but from my understanding, there is a huge spectrum. You know, when you're getting it at Origin and you're even getting it from a certain region versus getting it from CBS, you know, when you're getting CBD oil from a drug store on sale because it's 30 percent off versus getting it from a reputable supplier who is adamant that their supply chain checks off, you know, 10 boxes. That's a different product. Though those are different things that I'm sure it's true of Erb's as well. You know, by the time it gets to the discount table at a drug store, you're not dealing with the same substance at all.

Ari [00:43:27] Absolutely going to go off off this particular site and you presented a Ted X in Hawaii. What was your mentation about?

Eric [00:43:36] My presentation was about fitness for the autism population and why. Number one, it's critical that we integrate fitness programs for this population. And number two, about having having expectations without having expectations. And what I mean by that is our initial inclination might be to to discount or perceive that someone is not capable of doing something and regardless of what where they where they are or where they aren't. Right now, our our mantra in autism fitness is we're always meeting our athlete where they are right now with respect to their physical, adaptive and cognitive skills. And you always need a plan. So if they can't physiologically press 10 pounds overhead right now, it doesn't absolve them of pressing. We say, all right, well, can they press two? Can they press for. How much support do they need? So the theme of the talk was why fitness is important for this population, but also what we can achieve through that as well and what our athletes can achieve, given the right environmental considerations, meaning how do we set up for success for that individual?

Ari [00:44:55] That's awesome. Last question I'm going to talk about is the movement. So your goal is 750 certified pros the next 12 months? Yeah. I mean, you're twenty four to twelve because I think you could do it. Let's just say you put in in the next 12 to 24 months, I think you could do it in 12. So let's say you reach that goal of 750 pros in your system. Beyond the feeling of satisfaction that you reached a goal.

Ari [00:45:32] What is it that you are hoping for from that movement of practitioners?

Eric [00:45:40] For fitness to be spoken in the same sentence as anything else that is permanent or is an immediate? We must have this for the autism BI. So when we're talking about speech and occupational therapy, when we're talking about behavior therapy, we're also talking about, well, what will we find? Where's our local certified pro? Or it just the school that this individual is going to be attending, regardless of whether we're talking about a private program or a public school. Do they have an autism fitness certified pro on staff to deliver, deliver the the program the way it was meant to be? Delivered.

Ari [00:46:21] Thank you. Thank you for that. Just a quick follow up to that is if you had that. Everywhere. Right. If you had that. What would you want to do next?

Eric [00:46:37] Train people to take my place, which is what we're doing now with that level to program the author has been a certification is going to have three levels to it. Our level three is going to be our master level where I have people who can teach, teach the level one course also. So we're working towards that. It's it's replication. It's systematizing and then dissemination. And then replication.

Ari [00:47:03] Do you want this to be covered by insurance?

Eric [00:47:06] Yes.

Eric [00:47:08] Absolutely. Because we're looking at and it's an interesting conversation if we're looking at preventative care and this is I started this conversation with a few people and internally people who are involved with autism fitness, if we look at what insurance companies are doing now. Many of them are at least reimbursing or partially reimbursing for gym memberships. Unfortunately, with our population young thinking of any of the athletes I've worked with over the past 20 years, they could have a gym membership, they could find gym memberships, but they walk into a gym. And if they don't have the appropriate support, then they're just walking into a gym. And the analogy that I use is you can walk into a bag, but it doesn't mean any money is being deposited in your account. You are just in a bank. You can be in just a gym. And particularly for our population, we have to ask, is it safe? Is the environment appropriate? Do they have access to what they they need in order to have their fitness program? If the answer is no, which right now the answer is resoundingly no. Then how do we change that? So it's not just a gym membership in name so that you can get a discount on it through insurance, but something that actually does what it is supposed to be doing, which I think is an unfortunate rarity in many cases now. But that, you know, that's that's the you know, the scientific test, if anything, doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

Ari [00:48:38] You know, this is this is one of the areas that I like to fight is because the insurance companies only care about procedures vs. caring about results and results. Typically, not only I would say typically. And and if you got a gym membership. But you're getting no results. What good is the insurance companies?

Eric [00:49:02] Right. Yeah, I think that measurability and I think it what needs to change is just the outcome measures. I think it's new for the insurance companies now. By no means am I. Standing here and defending the insurance companies. I think it just needs to be looked at in terms of it's it's new for them to start discounting or reimbursing because the idea for them is as good as any other business. They want to they want to reduce their cost and increase their bottom line because the surgical a surgical procedure, you know, on average is likely going to cost more than a couple sessions in the gym. I think it makes sense. I think it's in the best interest of any insurance company to cover that. The question is, how do you actually measure it? You know, how do you how do you measure that? What standards are you using as well? For example, if they're using a BMI standard, it's ridiculous because me at, you know, five, six and right now close to one hundred and eighty pounds clinically obese. Right. Right now. Right. So that's certainly not the case. Just the fact that I'm on hypertrophy program right now. So I think and I think it comes back to the beginning of the conversation, too, in having an interdisciplinary model, because a an underwriter for that insurance company may not appreciate the difference between having the gym membership and actually going to the gym and having a sustainable, appropriate program for everybody. But it's another conversation to be had, and it may not be the most immediate conversation that's going to occur. But at some point, if they want a return on investment for for reimbursing gym memberships, we have to ask, well, what is the gym membership actually doing? What is participating in this actually doing?

Ari [00:50:58] Excellent. Thank you so much. So last but not least, I ask this of all of my guests is what three actionable steps can you give our listeners or my listeners?

Ari [00:51:12] So that they can go off tomorrow and do something to change their life. To change their life. Yes. Are there people around that actionable steps that they can do to help create a better world?

Eric [00:51:31] Number one is. Take two to three seconds. To answer somebody after they have said something that you either disagree with or is something that is new to you. Thing number two is that your perspective in life is not the truth. It's just a lens that you were born with and that that has been with you the entire time.

Eric [00:51:58] Three is and I like the campfire rule man is always try to leave things better than than you found them.

Ari [00:52:09] That is awesome. Thank you so much, Eric. I really appreciate having you on and thank you, everybody, for listening. This is Ari Gronich with Create a New Tomorrow. And we will see you next time. Thank you so much.

Ari [00:52:23] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, create a new tomorrow dot com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out.

Ari [00:52:48] And I look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.