Gina Cherion emailed me recently asking about Systems Theory in non white spaces, specifically how differentiation works in Asian culture. Gina is a pastor of Indian descent and when I received her email I knew I wanted to interview her and Marvin Williams who I have gotten to know through my Systems work and through Capable Life. Marvin is doing doctoral work at Fuller Seminary on Systems Theory, specifically on black presence in majority culture. I LOVED this conversation with these two pastors who led us on a great journey of managing expectations, carrying the weight of culture, shape shifting and more.

Gina Cherian has served the church in various roles, including serving as a campus pastor of a large multisite church and her current role as a pastor at Hope Community Church on the North Shore of Chicago. Gina longs to see every person discover the life-changing grace of Christ that has transformed her life. As an Indian-American woman, she is passionate about advancing the beautiful multiethnic community described in Revelation to our reality today. Gina is a devoted fan of all things related to her hometown of Chicago: sports, food, and even the weather. She resides in the Chicagoland area with her husband and two kids.

Marvin Williams has served as the Lead Pastor of Trinity Church in Lansing, Michigan since February 2010. He is a graduate of Bishop College in Dallas, Texas, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois, and Grand Rapids Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He and his wife Tonia have three children. 

In addition to his ministry at Trinity Church, he was a regular devotional author for Our Daily Bread and Our Daily Journey and was one of the Bible Teachers for Sports.org. He is also a contributor to Scott Williams’ best-selling book, Church Diversity. He regularly speaks at conferences, retreats, chapels and churches around the country.

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