In this conversation, ultra runner John Kelly discusses his experiences with the Barkley Marathons and other multi-day events. He shares insights into the allure of these challenging races, the mental strategies he employs when faced with obstacles, and his thoughts on the critics of such events. John emphasizes the importance of patience, adaptability, and finding meaning in arbitrary challenges, as well as the mental processes behind DNFing (Did Not Finish) during races. In this conversation, John shares his experiences with the Barkley Marathons, discussing the lessons learned from his DNF (Did Not Finish) experiences and how his mindset has evolved over time. He emphasizes the importance of intrinsic motivation, the value of enjoying the journey rather than fixating solely on the finish, and how reframing goals has changed his approach to racing. John also touches on the absurdity of pursuing challenging goals and the significance of nutrition and preparation in ultra running. He concludes with insights on pursuing big dreams, like his upcoming Appalachian Trail FKT attempt, encouraging others to embrace challenges and learn from failures.