Are you ready to deal with the things you’ve been avoiding and find out how to get unstuck? Joining us today on Flying Free is the incredible speaker, therapist, and author of The Science of Stuck, Britt Frank. Through Britt’s abusive relationship, substance abuse, and spiritual challenges she has learned that mental health is a commitment to reality. In this episode, we discuss why Britt wrote her book, the role of anxiety in our lives, why we have to be distinguished about our language use when talking about anxiety, fear, and worry, and why so many people choose to stay in abusive relationships for the benefits. There’s no such thing as an overreaction, only mismatched reactions, and Britt talks us through how to handle freeze response, manage panic attacks, and acknowledge shadow intelligence to become conscious decision-makers in our lives. Finally, we discuss why forgiveness is not essential to healing. Don’t miss out on this incredibly informative conversation!

Key Points From This Episode:

• An overview of Britt’s book and why she wrote it. 
• The unique summaries, dos and don’ts, and five-minute challenges Britt included at the end of every chapter and why. 
• Why Britt believes that we need anxiety in order for our lives to work. 
• The differences between anxiety, fear, and worry, and why we need to identify when we are experiencing them in order to access our choices. 
• Why the uncomfortable truth is always better than a shiny lie. 
• The rewards and benefits of staying stuck and why you need to rescue yourself. 
• An example of one of the five-minute challenges in Britt’s book. 
• What shadow intelligence is and how we can make our unconscious conscious. 
• What Britt would say to survivors who have given up and why they are not unmotivated; their brains are stuck in a freeze response. 
• Why forgiveness is not required to heal trauma and create new brain pathways and why it’s not possible when you are in fight or flight mode. 
• Emotional adulthood vs. emotional childhood and why your reactions need to be matched to the action and situation. 
• Britt’s beautiful reframing of panic attacks. 

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Britt’s book, which is one of my top three books I read in 2022: The Science of Stuck.
• Britt’s website, The Science of Stuck.
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay well in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you!
• Support the Flying Free podcast AND get in on monthly deep-dive discussions with podcast guests by joining the Flying Free Podcast Club for a $5 monthly donation HERE. (Members of Flying Free and Flying Higher can join these discussions FREE. Just reach out to me, [email protected], and we'll get you set up!) 

Britt Frank, MSW, LSCSW, SEP is a clinician, educator and trauma specialist. She speaks and writes widely about the mental health myths that keep us stuck and stressed. Britt received her BA from Duke University and her MSW from the University of Kansas, where she later became an award winning adjunct professor. She is a Somatic Experiencing Practitioner and Level 3 trained in the Internal Family Systems therapeutic model. Britt was a primary therapist at a drug and alcohol treatment center, an inpatient therapist at a children’s psychiatric hospital, and now owns a private practice. You can find Britt on Instagram or on her website www.scienceofstuck.com.

The holiday season can be a very emotional time. While it’s festive and fun for many people, this time of the year isn’t necessarily a happy or carefree period for everyone. Last week, we answered some questions posed by our Flying Free community about how to get through the holidays when life feels like it’s falling apart. In fact, we received so many questions from the women in our program that we decided to make this into a two-part series. Tuning in today, you’ll receive some heartfelt advice for moving past holiday guilt and shame, standing your sacred ground despite nasty comments, navigating gift-giving in a way that aligns with your core values, and more. We also offer you some valuable tools and strategies, including questions to ask yourself to help you shift your thinking and show up with love and joy in the present moment. Join us for more tips about creating a space of peace amidst the chaos! 

Key Points From This Episode:

• Overcoming holiday guilt by addressing core beliefs and programming.
• Journal prompts you can use to help you shake up your thinking.
• Reconciling shame without overcompensating.
• How to regulate your emotions by examining your thoughts.
• Why you can’t fix the past, only relish the present and show up with love.
• Ways to take back your power and love yourself despite negative comments.
• How therapy helps you regain control of your healing journey.
• Making peace with filing for divorce during the holidays.
• To gift or not to gift?
• Tips for negotiating awkward or emotionally difficult holiday functions.
• How to create your own space of peace and rest amidst the chaos.

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

The holiday season can be bittersweet, imbued with magic and pain in equal parts. For many people, it can be a very emotional time, with all the Christmassy sounds and smells unearthing memories from the depths of their childhoods. It’s important to be kind to ourselves during this time, and in this episode, we’re tackling some of the questions posed by our Flying Free community in order to equip you to make the most of the holidays! Tune in for advice on how to honor healing and pain while making space for joy, how to prepare your kids for new traditions amidst the changes in their lives, and how to remain unaffected by others’ bad humor, as well as how to manage loneliness, and more. If you’re at a loss about how to keep the Christmas spirit going for you and your family, we also share some examples of fun new Christmas traditions for you to try out. We hope you’ll join us today!

Key Points From This Episode:

• The mixed emotions brought on by the holiday season. 
• Clean pain versus dirty pain.
• How to honor clean pain or grief while making space for joy in the Christmas season.
• Tips for remaining unaffected by the bad humor of those around you.
• How to prepare the kids for their first Christmas post-divorce.
• Examples of fun new Christmas traditions. 
• How to continue the process of healing in the midst of holiday stress.
• The journey of healing.
• How to make the most of your Christmas!
• How to deal with feelings of loneliness during the holidays.
• The key to healing core shame.
• Tips for becoming a good friend to yourself.

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Is abuse more widespread than ever before or are we more aware of it? Are churches listening to the cries of abused women? Is anything getting better?

I’m joined by advocates Sarah McDugal, Ngina Otiende, and Gretchen Baskerville, and my former podcast sidekick Rachel Harden as we celebrate the 200th Flying Free podcast episode and discuss the incredible support and awareness that’s growing in the Christian survivor community. 

We believe the tide is changing, and every single survivor is part of a growing wave of truth tellers, critical thinkers, and courageous voices.

Our take on the past decade:

• What advocates are supposed to be doing (it ain’t “telling you what to do”)
• Why civil wars are never started by the people in power
• The real reason “theo bros” are running scared
• How the data showing divorce saves lives is making a difference (even in conservative circles)
• Why airing dirty laundry is a good thing (including getting rid of stinkiness)
• The incredible things we’ve observed about younger generations
• Why we have a lot of hope for the church, abused women, and the future

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Sarah McDugal is co-founder of Wilderness to WILD and the TraumaMAMAs mobile app.
• Ngina Otiende is a certified marriage coach, author, and blogger. Check out her website at Intentional Today.
• Gretchen Baskerville is a legend in the survivor community. Her book blows the lid off the lies most Christian women are told about divorce, and her website is a perpetual explosion of truth bombs. Check out The Life-Saving Divorce.
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay well in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you!
• Support the Flying Free podcast AND get in on monthly deep-dive discussions with podcast guests by joining the Flying Free Podcast Club for a $5 monthly donation HERE. (Members of Flying Free and Flying Higher can join these discussions FREE. Just reach out to me, [email protected], and we'll get you set up!) 

Would you play a card game with a cheater? Once maybe, right? Then, it’s a solid H-E-double-hockey-stick no. 

What about for a month? A year? Five years? Twenty?

Would you tell your daughter to play with a cheater? Your best friend?

I’m gonna guess the answer is “abso-freaking-lutely not!”

So why do we think we “owe” a husband who has shown himself to be abusive any more of our precious time?

In this episode, I answer listener questions:

• Should you give more time to an abusive husband if you “knew better” (you were married to an abuser before and thought you’d chosen better this time)?
• Should you give more time to an abusive husband if you realized what he was shortly after getting married?
• What are some really covert emotional abuse tactics that may not be obvious in a short-term relationship?
• Which person do you need to be in love with once you start dating/considering marriage again? (It’s not the person with a wiener.)
• Why is self-love stupid, selfish, and unbiblical? (Risks of believing this include but are not limited to getting run over again and again by other people until you’re almost dead and spending years of your life feeling miserable)
• When and why should you share your “side of the story” with others?

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Learning about emotional and spiritual abuse is dangerous. 

You start to see patterns in your marriage, your family, your friendships, your church…and your faith. You start to understand why God often doesn’t feel safe. Why you feel like a constant disappointment. A regular failure. A busted, broken, rejection-worthy woman. 

You were taught that God is love…

And that God wants (and demands) perfection. That he loves you IN SPITE of you. That he has to look at Jesus to accept you. That negative emotions are a sign you’re in sin. And a high self-esteem (not hating yourself) is a sign you’re in other sin. That you deserve punishment even when you’re giving 100% to please him. 

There’s no winning…

…Until we explore the core of how we approach EVERY relationship in our lives: through attachment style. 

Krispin Mayfield and I explore healing our attachment to God:

• Why your faith struggles are likely not a lack of character but a result of poor theology (that you had no choice in learning)
• What attachment theory is and the three types of attachment
• How the three attachment types play out (with examples)
• A horrifying experiment that explains a lot of our freak-outs
• The connection between self-loathing and pleasing God (in most Christian communities)
• What’s so magical about getting things right only 30% of the time
• Resources for healing your attachment to God (see below)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

• Krispin’s amazing book that I couldn’t put down: Attached to God: A Practical Guide to Deeper Spiritual Experience.
• Krispin’s podcast: Prophetic Imagination Station.
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay well in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you!
• Support the Flying Free podcast AND get in on monthly deep-dive discussions with podcast guests by joining the Flying Free Podcast Club for a $5 monthly donation HERE. (Members of Flying Free and Flying Higher can join these discussions FREE. Just reach out to me, [email protected], and we'll get you set up!) 

Krispin Mayfield is a licensed professional counselor and author of Attached to God.  He co-hosts the podcast The Prophetic Imagination Station with his wife, D.L. Mayfield, where they dissect evangelical media from the 80’s and 90’s.

I'd like to introduce you to my friend Myrtle. She's a backseat driver. The kind you can't ignore. 

She's MY backseat driver. And yours. Myrtle thinks she's the help-iest thing ever. 

She’s a big reason behind many of our behavior patterns. The places and ways we're stuck. Our self-sabotage. Myrtle is the explanation for a lot of our recurrent fears. She’s loud, proud, and she never shuts up. She provides the same old thoughts that plague us, day after day, year after year.

What do we do with Myrtle? (Not to mention the bus full of other backseat drivers, in this case, younger versions of yourself.)

It starts with realizing there are “no bad parts” in us, including Myrtle. I’ll tell you all about it in this episode, one of five upcoming sessions featured in the Flying Free program.

The breakthroughs:

• Who Mad Mama is (and why she’s trying to protect me and you)
• Why I decided to become my own mother (sounds crazy, huh?)
• How to “drive your car” in a different direction when you have a freak-out session
• The thought exercise I did to heal from the trauma of losing my relationship with my mother
• A better approach to losing your relationship with your older/adult kids (a common heartbreaking occurrence for divorced women of faith)
• A definition of trauma (it’s different for everybody)
• What firefighters and “I’d like to speak to the manager” have to do with each other
• Why trying to deal with multiple thoughts at a time doesn’t work (and that’s okay!)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

I remember thinking that if I could just hit on the right inflection in my voice maybe or the correct tone or the perfect combination of words or the right attitude — you know, one of subservience and humility so as not to trigger his fragile ego and bring down his wrath — I’d finally get through. He’d finally get it. The wall would come crumbling down.

Nope.

When I finally filed for divorce, he suddenly said he’d seen the light. He’s willing to go to counseling. If I don’t give him this “final” chance (there have been so many “final” chances), I’ll feel like I didn’t do enough.

Is this you?

This episode defines “enough”:

• What a 10-year-old kid and an iPad have to do with an abusive husband and therapy
• Why there’s not much hope for abusers
• The reason your body’s “ick” reaction to your husband’s Hail Mary shows it’s wiser than your mental second-guessing
• How many chances I gave my ex-husband, and how mad it made God when I stopped (Spoiler Alert: It didn’t make God mad)
• Why feeling conflicted in your emotionally abusive marriage is COMPLETELY NORMAL
• What DARVO is (and what it has to do with cats and ducks)
• Why you’re asking the wrong questions

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“Unless you forgive and come back to me, you’re disobeying God and the Bible!” 

If I were your abusive husband, I’d say the same thing. Why? Cause then I’d get what I want. Woohoo! Isn’t that what the Bible is all about? 

Oh, begging your pardon. I was basing my opinion off how I see most church leaders and many legalistic Christians approach the Bible. 

Which means that if you’re looking for advice on whether you should reconcile with your abusive husband — and what reconciliation really means — you’re going to get a whole charcuterie board of different answers. From biased people. Trying to interpret text that doesn’t give a full answer on… basically anything.

Consider this alternative: Ask a different question and provide your own answer. 

Sound heretical? Then keep reading (and listening). 

In this episode, I spill some tasty tea on:

• 3 thoughts I have about about a husband who demands reconciliation (one involves an ax)
• Why people who accuse others of being unbiblical are actually doing exactly what they’re accusing others of doing (whew, that was a mouthful) 
• The limitations of the Bible
• How to use the Bible to make a case for anything (genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, political ideologies, etc.) 
• The danger of worshiping the Bible 
• Why relying on the Bible for all the answers means you’re going to be constantly confused, shoved in different directions, and easily manipulated
• What we have that’s much better than the Bible
• What the size of God has to do with the questions like “Do I have to go back?” and “Do I have grounds for divorce?"

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“You don’t know God,” the elder leaned forward and said to me. He knew I was preparing to divorce my emotionally abusive husband.

My body began to tremble. My voice shook. 

I realized later that he was right. His god was vindictive and cruel, like a mythological Zeus. 

The God I know — deeply, intimately, since I was a child — is gentle and kind and leads me away from fear and control.

That was the first church meeting I ever walked out of. And the last one I ever had with those elders. 

It’s also when I realized that I could fly free. So can you. 

In this episode with licensed marriage and family therapist Naomi Norton, we discuss:

• 11 dominant fears the Christian community uses to influence (CONTROL) women
• Why being connected to the physical (your body, emotions) is so important
• How to prioritize, process, and honor fear
• What the church usually says about fear (and why their perspective is SO DANGEROUS)
• How being aware of fear (the types, the ways they surface) can HELP US PROTECT ourselves
• Why moving toward fear is often NOT a good or godly response
• The reason you love God but you’re afraid of him (and how to get rid of that fear)
• How to respond to people (often church people) who USE FEAR TO CONTROL US

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Naomi’s Facebook page is like a 5-course banquet for emotional and spiritual abuse survivors. You’ll gobble it up! 
• If you live in or near Kansas City and you’re looking for a therapist, check out Naomi’s website.
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Naomi Norton is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She’s been in private practice for eight years. She has a passion for working with marginalized communities and people who’ve suffered religious trauma. Naomi is in the final stages of completing her Ph.D. in family therapy at North Central University. Her dissertation research focuses on the evangelical Christian community’s perspective on mental health.