For Better Or Best Podcast

Ok so we know we said no guests this season but an exception had to be made for Chi Town Tina, the queen mother of Charles Beloved himself! They go back to the 80's when Shontina and Charles' father were 19 and 20yrs old, married and working. Shontina explains feeling older than she was, even before kids, because life was moving fast. Enter Charles' brother and the birth of Beloved. Their parents didn't stay together for long, and the boys moved to the west side of Chicago with Shontina where she bought a house. Realizing schools weren't great in the neighborhood, Shontina went to see a Senator and then wrote to the White House to try and get her sons into magnet schools. Now we see where Charles gets his "won't take no for an answer" determination from!(1:23-9:35). Shontina recalls Charles always being a go getter, even if it wasn't reflected in his grades. Girls started distracting him in third grade. Charles says watching his mother hustle with multiple jobs inspired him to later do the same. Shontina had her own beeper company(Google 'beeper' if you're GenZ), she also worked for the IRS. She credits her mother for being so enterprising; she had beauty salons and her own radio station. Once Shontina became a flight attendant and was traveling she would bring souvenirs home for Charles. Throwback jerseys happened to be a trendy thing and Charles started slinging them left and right. By the time the boys were graduating, Shontina told Charles he either had to join the army or go to college. Shireen points out that Charles isn't Army material. Shontina was a great cook and would prep meals for the local hustlers in exchange for protection for her sons(10:33-19:27). Charles' brother Monty was always a scholar and Charles was the big personality. Shontina worked her magic and pushed to get Charles an interview at Monty's school where the director called him lazy. That birthed the version of Beloved that's dead set on proving everyone wrong. He and his brother were always very different, on different paths. Shontina explains that her being an only child was less pressure, compared to having multiple kids fighting to succeed. Both brothers are successful in their own right. Shontina shares how she sacrificed and chose her children and improving their lives over anything else(22:19-34:52). Shireen shares that they didn't get along right away and that it took work over the years. Now being a mom of 2 boys, Shireen has an appreciation for how strong willed Shontina was. The mother of sons doesn't have as much say as the mother of daughters when it comes to access to grandkids. Shontina shares that she'd be open to finding love and getting married again and hints at having met someone worthy. She goes on to spill the beans on an online encounter she had with who she thought was a Nigerian star. After months of communication and making plans unsuccessfully, Charles and Shireen started getting suspicious. Shontina was getting the run around and Charles finally DM'd the Nigerian actor on IG to try and piece it all together. It became clear after Charles reached out that Shontina was being catfished. Despite the embarrassment and sense of betrayal, Shontina is still hopeful and looking for love, much more carefully this time <3 

Get your tickets for The Oxtail Off @ The Beehive on Sunday May 25th in LA! https://events.eventnoire.com/e/the-oxtail-off/tickets

Keep up with us on IG @forbetterorbestpod 

Listen to us on Apple and Spotify! Like, Subscribe, Comment and Share! xoxo

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Charles and Shireen are fresh off the plane from Dubai, and it's spring break! Every year they take a family trip, last year was Paris and this year their son CJ had been mentioning the Burj Kalifa nonstop, so Dubai was the choice. Charles says Mexico City was his initial pick, but after pricing it out, surprisingly Dubai made more sense. Shireen was anti Dubai because she was supposed to be pregnant and she didn't want to be in main cabin pregnant (they booked it in October). When you get a taste of first class, you never want to go back! Charles recalls their first trip to Dubai 10 years ago when the glitch happened, before the kids, before Instagram had stories and only had posts. On Christmas Day, there was a flight sale glitch, and Dubai had never seen so many Black people (1:52-8:37). Charles describes Dubai as a new city, there are so many new builds in the last 10 years and he researched a bunch of different activities for kids. Charles' brother and his family as well as Charles' best friend Kareem and his family came along for the spring break vibes as well. Charles notes that he is the masterful planner with a Google Doc itinerary and Shireen doesn't know the details at all. Shireen defends her position, reminding hm who shops, packs and preps them and their sons for every adventure. Not to mention the pre-trip appointments (lashes, nails etc). 16 hours on a direct flight with kids in coach is no joke and jetlag for little ones is real! Carter at 2yrs old did better than some adults!(9:12-17:22). First day of the trip, CJ's dream came true, visiting the Burj Kalifa. Charles would've paid the express fees had he known the line was gonna be 2hrs long! While it is a tourist trap, they both agreed its a must see in Dubai. Charles brags on the food and restaurants, Miss Lily's and Ting Irie. He notes that the McDonald's and Raising Cane's in Abu Dhabi tastes exactly the same as America. Abu Dhabi was the next stop where they visited the Grand Mosque. Shireen made sure to pack more conservative clothing, covered from neck to ankle. When they went 10yrs ago, you used to be able to rent a head covering outside the mosque. Now, you walk through a mall to get the mosque, prompting you to buy head scarves, socks and arm coverings. Charles got in trouble for posing with prayer hands and Shireen got left behind with her mother in law trying to take pictures. Everyone makes it onto the shuttle except Shireen and her phone was in the stroller so Charles felt like Liam Neeson in 'Taken'. Shireen eventually made her way to the help desk, where she was able to call Charles' mother and get back to the group. (19:48-30:29). Charles then soothes his anxiety with shopping!by Gold is a big thing in Dubai(and in the Bronx as well, let Shireen tell it). The boyd got matching name bracelets but Charles mentions the 5% VAT tax so they didn't go too crazy. Their inventory of Rolexes was amazing but Charles was proud he didn't buy anything. Food, hotel prices and activities were spectacular, a yacht day, and some shopping made spring break in Dubai an A1 trip!

Get your tickets for The Oxtail Off @ The Beehive on Sunday May 25th in LA! https://events.eventnoire.com/e/the-oxtail-off/tickets

Keep up with us on IG @forbetterorbestpod 

Listen to us on Apple and Spotify! Like, Subscribe, Comment and Share! xoxo

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Goes to Trinidad Carnival once: and now we're being introduced to Bacchanal Beloved. Clearly the brand is strong and expanding! Shireen being of Antiguan and Jamaican descent, she's always had ties to the experience "on di road" as Charles says. His good friend Kareem is Trinidadian and wanted to experience his first carnival at home so Charles went with him. Shireen breaks down the costs of carnival; both financially and physically!(0:12-4:55). Charles didn't know Shireen was West Indian until he met her mother with an accent. African American Christmas vs. Antiguan Christmas was a culture shock. Shireen didn't play much soca around Charles while they dated so he wasn't familiar with aritsts like Kes. Charles confused Kes with Kem, the R&B singer and Shireen and BK had to promptly correct him(5:26-12:47). Charles carnival time was a guys trip and was anti Shireen wanting to come along to do her own thing. Carnival is so packed with people that you could do it without running into people you know. Charles didn't want no smoke about getting wined on and being on road for 12-16hrs. Shireen describes the even calendar for carnival week. Monday fetes(the Caribbean word for parties) have one costume and Tuesday is for the major costumes. Kareem planned the trip since he's Trini but it was hiis first time so they booked an AirBnB 30min away from the events. So no breaks, once you're on road, you're there for the day. The original dates they booked would've had Charles leave and miss the highlight of carnival Tuesday but Shireen updated them and they stayed(13:29-22:21). Shireen and Rene(bestie and season 2 guest) agreed to let Charles tag along on their next adventure, now that Charles knows the lay of the land. Charles and Kareem randomly ended up in the same band/group as Rene this year so they were running around together the whole time. Shireen was so happy that Charles called to say he wished she was there so they could experience it together. Charles now wants to explore the other Caribbean carnivals like Cropover in Barbados. He was fascinated by the Indian population in Trinidad(due to slavery/colonization). From a production standpoint, culture curator Beloved was pleasantly surprised and impressed. The sound, the trucks, the food, the digital screens on stage, the brands present, organization getting in/out. It worth the price to pay for the experience(Haagen Dazs was a highlight). Shireen is hype that Charles is immersing himself in Caribbean culture and wants her children to experience it. Shireen drops a hot take that her sons may not marry Black women so the culture has to be passed on through them! 

Get your tickets for The Oxtail Off @ The Beehive on Sunday May 25th in LA! https://events.eventnoire.com/e/the-oxtail-off/tickets

Keep up with us on IG @forbetterorbestpod Listen to us on Apple and Spotify Subscribe, Like, Comment and Share! xoxo

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Charles and Shireen are back in their fashion bag, Charles kicks off the episode giving Shireen her flowers for not only looking good but also getting in her own corporate bag; hosting panels in tech spaces. She acknowledges enjoying moderating/interviewing, as Charles takes credit for encouraging her(2:01-5:26). Shireen revisits the sensitive subject of IVF, and shares the challenges of the process, updating us that she is not currently pregnant. Charles admits that men don't really do much during this process and that he has a new level of empathy for the women who have gone through IVF treatments(6:23-9:12). Shireen tells a story about bringing her hormonal syringes to a live comedy show, planning to do her injections in the bathroom. Thank God there was enough room and privacy to get it done. The dedication is no joke! Charles jokes that if the roles were reversed, he wouldn't be strong enough to go through all that. Shireen mentions timing her implantation around the school year, not wanting to give birth too late in the year(11:19-15:03). Shireen recalls feeling pregnant at Afrotech after the first implantation attempt. They went to the doctor once home. The doctor said the HCG hormones looked good, spiking excitement. She then reached back out a few days later to let them know the hormone levels hadn't changed, indicating the implantation was unsuccessful. While eager to try again, the doc advised waiting a few months, since they only had 3 embryos left(or 3 chances to try). Shireen says it harder to conceive going the scientific route than it was to do it naturally. July 2026 is their 10yr wedding annniversary, so Shireen assessed that with the amount of changes coming up, it might be worth postponing and Charles wasn't in favor at first(17:12-24:15). Shireen is wondering what another year and a half of aging might look like for her body health, also wanting lipo when all is said and done. Charles explains his agreement with the delay because he always wanted to wait til his 40s, he's currently in go mode and wants to slow down in the next few years. He emphasizes that trying one more time would be enough for him, that he doesn't want to put Shireen through the process more than twice, but Shireen says she's willing to see it through with all 3 embryos before considering adoption or surrogacy. Surrogates are the most selfless loving vessels, but Shireen would rather save the money and go the adoption route. Both are always resigned to whatever God's will is, whether its a baby announcement next season or lipo!(26:39-32:50)

Get your tickets for The Oxtail Off @ The Beehive on Sunday May 25th in LA!

https://events.eventnoire.com/e/the-oxtail-off/tickets

Keep up with us on IG @forbetterorbestpod

Listen to us on Apple and Spotify

Subscribe, Like, Comment and Share! xoxo

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Your favorite couple is back for season 3! Initially Charles was so busy with work last year that he wasn't sure he'd make the return for another season. Luckily someone approached him at AfroTech to remind him how valuable the show is so he decided to give it another go(1:12-2:45). We pick up right where we left off, sharing a recap of EssenceFest last summer, where Shireen put in extra effort to capture content for Charles. They both share constructive feedback with each other, and Shireen stepped her game up to record video and get photos of Charles on stage with Jeremih during NBA All Starr weekend this year(6:22-8:56). Shireen shares that the plans for their 10yr wedding anniversary have begun, and she recalls Charles being Groomzilla the first time around. Attending BK and Cheech's wedding in Jamaica last year inspired them to look into tropical destinations for 300-400 guests(the first wedding had 300 atendees) (11:21-13:49). Charles jokes that he hopes they make it that far, says he's never gotten closer to divorce than he was in December. The plan was to make a quick Euro trip to shop and revisit their honeymoon location before hitting up South Africa for New Years(14:30-16:07). After making it through security with their passports/boarding passes, they realize Digital ID allows for them to board the plane without having to show them again. They board the flight and Shireen discovers that Charles' passport was missing! Rene, their close friend and a frequent global traveler, encouraged them to stay calm and get an emergency passport via the US embassy once they land(17:19-20:29). They land in Amsterdam, where the very direct Dutch customs officers inform them that Charles can't leave the airport for an emergency passport because their final destination, South Africa, wouldn't accept that. While they escort Charles into detainment(a first for him outside of 5 star restaurants), Shireen went to the help desk to find out what can be done(23:49-27:29). Shireen got them to call LAX and they confirmed that they found his passport! Despite the excitement, they're unable to out the passport on the plane to get it to Charles. Luckily, his mother was able to retrieve it from the airport by the grace of God and got on a flight to bring it to Charles in Amsterdam! Upon arrival, they got back on schedule with their country hopping and all was well again in the Kuykendoll house; still married!

Make sure you check out https://www.gld.com/ for all your jewelry needs!

Keep up with us on IG @forbetterorbestpod

Listen to us on Apple and Spotify

Subscribe, Like, Comment and Share! xoxo

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is said to be our season finale (allegedly) and Shireen is flying solo without Charles. She is happily joined by one of her best friends, content creator, free diving mermaid and travel aficionado Rene Daniella, known on social media as @ownbyfemme. Shireen gives her guest her flowers, complimenting how intentional Rene is about posting on social media. Rene takes us through her journey to becoming an influencer. She studied broadcast journalism and was working for a PR firm in NYC. She did a shoot that she felt self conscious about but it was during a time when natural/curly hair was a thing, so it picked up traction (1:23-8:01). Fast forward to Rene living in Paris during grad school. She gave herself a year; if she couldn't build up a significant enough following and brand partnerships to stay afloat, she would go back to NYC. Rene mentions how the support of her family/parents really helpd get her through some struggle times in her 20s. Maxing out credit cards and borrowing from her parents helped her get the start she needed. The foundation she had is one that she is immensely grateful for. After returning to NY Rene made friends with more Black travel content creators and she was off to the races. She was hired to host a travel series for YouTube and moved to Colombia for 6mo. That's when she knew she could do it full time in the states (14:54-20:06). Rene says blind faith is really what has propelled her forward in the content space. At the root of all her desires is freedom to travel. Shireen asks about failures vs successes and Rene mentions the ups and downs since 2020. The pandemic halted most of her travel plans so she wound up staying in the UK with her parents for many months. Rene recalls not having as many deals during that time but once they picked up, she was able to buy a house in 2022. She takes pride in being able to afford the lifestyle she dreamed about, all from her earnings from brand partnerships on social media. People are fnally starting to see how lucrative it is to curate branded content that way(21:14-29:08). Rene is fulfilled by the community she's created online and shares that keeping up with people online through shared interests is a talent in itself. Shireen then shifts the convo to home ownership and the woes of draining your resources. Rene mentions how Rocket Money(not an ad) has helped her manage her budget better, so that there is less frivolous spending. She shared how 2023 she was on a weight loss journey, so the content focus was on that and home decor. How you feel about yourself, your body, being in front of the camera impacts how you share content. Rene's secret to success appears to be blind faith, personal deadlines and pushing through insecurities to find something creative to get passionate about. Social media is a culmination of everyone's wins, but rarely do any come without a bunch of unseen losses. She's an expert at capturing "the moment" and then putting her phone away to actually enjoy it. We could all take some notes on that! (32:03-40:19)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After giving Shireen more flowers this week, the Kuykendolls are joined by one of their favorites, Scottie Beam. Charles recalls meeting Scottie at his first Revolt event in Chicago and knowing immediately that she was a star. Shireen remembered watching Scottie at ComplexCon, realizing how much she makes Black women and men feel seen. Scottie acknowledges everyone, always says hello, always stops to take pictures. Charles asks how she became an influencer. Humbly, Scottie shares how she got her start on the Hot97 street team in NYC and worked her way up to digital producer, taking what she learned from creating awareness on the street to the internet. They all joke about their AIM names and MySpace. Some men peaked as athletes in high school and never let it go, so their highlights ended up online (1:46-11:21). Scottie says she likes a nerd, a smart man that doesn't have to be "universally fine", just fine for her, and that always surprises dudes. Somehow they land on deodorant and soaps, claiming that the 3 in 1 and 5 in 1 soaps don't count (Head&Shoulders is NOT body wash). Getting back to her industry start, Scottie shares how working with Angie Martinez and learning social media taught her about content for her audience. She began posting more images of herself. Scottie's mother always told her to document everything; even if you're uncomfortbale in your body, post it as a reminder of your growth. Shireen has a hard time consistently posting as well because she feels like more of a consumer than a content creator (12:02-19:24). Scottie says she tried multiple things before landing in the content space as a creator; Interning at labels, working in retail. Taking the content/talk space by storm has been grat, and Scottie says she knows when to leave and when things don't serve her anymore. Charles asks how she trusts her gut and she replies that when she left Hot97 to focus fully on digital content, she knew her passion would elevate her. The purpose is louder than the look! She had stopped hosting once she was clinically diagnosed with dyslexia. She was overthinking everything, including her confidence. Coupled with the isolation of Covid, fear got overwhelming. Scottie admits that she's afraid she won't make her loved ones proud, that she's very hard on herself but she's learning more and more to trust God (21:08-31:13). The convo shifts to Charles and his need to feel in control of things. Shireen has patience but also gets frustrated when she feels Charles doesn't trust her work ethic. He claims his biggest fear is being disappointed, and Scottie asks for how long? Eventually Charles digresses and listens to the ladies point out how much Shireen does for their family and some of the efforts that go unseen. Women always get it done, especially without a hand clap. Charles has always said he couldn't do half as much in his life or achieve his amount of success without Shireen, but it helps to hear it out loud from friends as well. Scottie goes on to give Charles his flowers about how well he moves in the industry; always keeping his wife next to him, never letting any other women(friends or colleagues) get too familiar without also getting to know Shireen. "If you like me, you'd love my wife" energy. Real friends loving on each other this episode! (33:36-47:43)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week the Kuykendolls dive into making a decision about having baby girl Beloved. Charles recalls the first episode ever being about the vasectomy and now 15 months later they're preparing to go through the process of IVF. Shireen says that he revealed he really wanted a little girl during her 37 week ultrasound while pregnant with Carter and she thought he was joking. Now that Carter is almost 2 and Shireen's snapback is crazy, Charles thinks its time for them to do the egg retrieval. Shireen says she was intentional about her prayers and there was never a prayer for baby #3. Charles remembers still wanting to be outside and travel when CJ was born but now he loves being at home. Shireen is now traveling more and Charles jokes that he's gotta get her pregnant to keep her from going on all these girls trips!(1:02-8:57). Charles says if he had his way, there would be a 5yr gap between kids, Shireen says they should've started younger. Shireen doesn't want to wait longer becuase she's already loving the freedom she's getting as Carter grows, she's not gonna want to give it up. CJ is perfectly content with his little brother, he thinks 2 kids is enough. Shireen explans the egg retrieval process; injections 10-12 days, doctors visits etc. and said she needed Charles to be present to help her. Charles doesn't believe in needles, apparently, so she was on her own. Both have agreed they're only going through all this for a baby girl. So once fertilized, if the embryos turned out to be all boys, they've agreed not to do another round of egg retrievals(9:09-19:34). Charles recaps his sperm retrieval experience; from the buzzing lights to the turn dial tv to the magazines. Shireen shares the hurdle that is fibroids, and wasn't sure if she would be able to carry. She suggested a surrogate, and Charles said he was down as long as she follows his set of rules, its giving princess/prisoner. Charles recalls Shireen locking in on her health during pregnancy so the bar is high. Shireen said the exam on her uterus was painful but the doctor cleared her to carry. Baby shower for a surrogate? They did a gender reveal for CJ and Carter, so the same will stand for baby girl. Adoption is also not off the table as a last resort, and would be an option for Shireen into her 40s. She shares that pregnancy was not easy for her, as beautiful a feeling as it was, it was rough both times. Despite how physically and emotionally taxing, Shireen loves Charles and having baby girl Beloved will be her love letter to him(22:13-37:08).

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Barely-making-it Beloved is fresh off of a flight to join Shireen and their guest, occupational therapist, Shardia Washington. Her intro defines what her exact medical title means as they discuss the very touchy topic of children. Identifying developmental hurdles as a parent can be tough. Shireen shares that their second son Carter was a little delayed in his ability to stand and walk as a 1 year old, and being familiar with CJ's growth (he was slightly late and lazy), she knew that Carter would need the same if not more grace(1:52-5:05). Milestones are not definitive; Shardia explains that having an idea of where kids should be is fine, but the shame and guilt about something possibly being "wrong" shouldn't keep you from getting an assessment. She says that being a clinician, she can't help but always be transparent with parents, even friends who may be in denial about their situation. She says she can't turn it off, its her responsibility but always makes sure that she's not overstepping boundaries. Shireen asks if Shardia gets pushback from parents because she doesn't have children. Shardia makes it clear to parents that they know their child, no one knows and loves them like a mom, but the mom doesn't know disability or development, so she says its important to disarm the parents so it feels solution based (7:12-13:30). There's progress made in discomfort. Charles jokes that he's knock-kneed and Shireen is piegon toed so he cracks a joke about their kids having inherited their joint traits. Carter is now old enough to understand his intuition and senses when he's about to be pushed or challenged to work on his development. Charles describes Carter as being a little lazy and stubborn, that the older he gets the harder it is for him to adapt; fear shows up. Some days he's got the energy and some days he doesn't. Shardia says thats like us too, as adults. Nurturing a kids' capacity is just as important as our own. We have to recognize what we grew out of and get out of our feelings about where the kids are in comparison. So much of the Black community has been held together by the "family business stays in the house" idealogy, that help thats available goes ignored. You'd be shocked to find out how many people would assist if they knew you were in need(14:01-20:10). Shardia breaks down how small things get compounded if gone untreated with kids, and the problems can go from being medical to social. Carter is very social, Shireen sees how engaged he is at home with his brother. They point out how different their lives have become, from once having a baby who was immobile to having a child who runs around with curiosity. Shireen says the physical therapist sees Carter twice a week but she doesn't feel like its really working as well as it should, even with concentrated practice at home. Shardia looks for patient/clinician fit and results. She says sometimes you can have one without the other, and if progress isn't ongoing, its time to take a more aggressive approach and explore second and third opinions. And bear in mind that cost does not always equal quality when it comes to care(21:02-27:32). When you first start therapy, Shardia says she's assessing the barriers that are preventing the child from doing what they need to do. Throughout the intervention, Shardia knows what targets the kid needs to hit at every session. Every parent should also be able to keep track according to what the clinician provides. Shireen is an action oriented parent, and found another treatment center for Carter and had a new therapist do a home evaluation that felt much more productive. CJ makes a rare appearance! Shireen says that kids tell everybody your business at school, he's bragging about season 2 of the podcast!

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Friends, how many of us have them?! This week the Kuykendolls are joined by good friends Jae Murphy (DJ, host, artist) and Alex Hill (chef, food blogger, content creator). The guests start off disucissing their HBCU experiences, Jae was at Howard for broadcast journalism and Alex went to Hampton for PR/marketing. Charles gushes about wanting his kids going to HBCUs, for all the perks of culture and networking. Jae pledged Kappa and learned how to DJ quietly while building a local name for himself. After getting asked to host the BET Music Matters showcase with Kendrick Lamar, he hit the gas and moved to LA to pursue a gig at Revolt. Shooters shoot! (1:19-15:19). The attention shifts to Alex, who shares that her mom taught her how to cook and her favorite hot sauces are Krystal's and Tapatio. The 'Just Add Hot Sauce' blog was perfectly on brand! Alex didn't know how to shoot/edit food content back then. She worked for Team Epiphany (Black owned media company) and after a tough love/life lesson moved from NY to LA. Overwhelmed by the high demand of the job, Alex decided to pivot. She saved $20k and launched her video series. It's not about who you know but who knows you! (19:18-28:10). Jae Murphy is a brand, not just a DJ anymore. He's a host, music artist and content creator. He explains that people stiill treat DJing like its not a real job, its a trendy hobby. Similarly to that, cooking on IG has become a widespread trend. Alex always wanted to start a cooking show, hence her long form series on YouTube, 'Hot Sauce At Home'. Tastemates found her and she realized someone had been quietly pitching her content for a show for a while. Both Jae and Alex go back and forth about the pains of dating. East coast men are the preference all across the board for Alex, whereas Jae prefers west coast women because he went to college with so many of them. Alex says its important to be intentional in dating, that whoever she considers has to be ok with the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. Jae working in nightlife works against him, people assume the public persona is all they are in real life. They all chat about Charles' ability to bring singles together by curating "tribal gatherings" for his many friend groups. Jae is content being single in this season, while Alex is not interested in the unserious, no more ignoring red flags, no more dating with potential, you gotta come potenched! (33:13-50:45). Alex has been trying her luck on Raya. She says she doesn't need a partner to be passionate about the same things as her, just be super supportive. Jae concurs that he needs someone that doesn't mind being his supporting act, and that Charles and Shireen give him hope, the way they love each other loudly (51:30-1:01:02).

Make sure to check out 'Spice Spice Baby' on Tastemates, listen to 'Angel' on Apple Music/Spotify, and follow @justaddhotsauce and @jaemurphy on IG

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices