For Better Or Best Podcast

Charles starts off admitting he didn't know the lyrics to 'Poison' by Bel Biv Devoe until he met Shireen, and now it plays at R&B HouseParty. The couple is prepping/planning around each other's schedules, since summer is on the way and now Charles' mother has moved out and their in-house childcare is no more! Shireen is back in the thick of work, with Carter now in daycare and Charles announces The Bridge Tour for R&B HouseParty, a series of free parties(0:34-4:15). Its tax refund season, so its time to talk money. Shireen notes that she's always known how to manage money. When they met, she lived at home and knew how to budget/save. They worked together so she knew how much Charles made. Charles had a different philosophy, living paycheck to paycheck. For Charles, establishing credit was a secretive thing, no one discussed it. He didn't know his mother ever hustled or struggled until he was in junior high. His brother went to prom and he had custom everything. When it was Charles' turn, his mother didn't have it. Having no money made Charles work extra hard(5:30-12:09). Charles took a job in finance because it was high paying, but was still paying the minimum on credit cards while Shireen was paying off her cards every month to establish good credit. She wasn't forthcoming in the beginning, about how much money she had. She took out a loan for grad school and didn't feel obligated to rescue Charles financially when he lost his job(12:20-18:17). Charles recalls the story told on 'Black Love' about Shireen helping keep his ego in tact while he wasn't making a ton of money. Shireen says she was willing to invest in him because she felt he would've done the same for her, that he was generous even with the little bit he did have. That thoughtfulness let her know who Charles would be with money. On her 25th birthday he used his whole unemployment check to fly out to her and take her to dinner. But then Charles would make dinner/happy hour plans and invite her, knowing that she would have to be the one to pay. Shireen would ask how it was being covered and Charles felt like it was rude. Little did she know, he was being intentional with his money(18:46-24:18). Charles was saving for an engagement ring. It was the first time he ever exercised self control. Shireen recalls Charles being a terrible recruitment candidate because he didn't prioritize the job. He had taken a lower paying job because he enjoyed it, but knew he wanted to change his approach with money once he proposed. Charles says he resented when he would visit Shireen in ATL, go to Zaxby's and she would have an attitude about paying $7 for his meal(she didnt know he was proposing soon) because who doesn't have $7?(25:55-30:30).  When Charles proposed to Shireen he had bottle girl sparklers bring him out. Shireen was overwhelmed, looked at ring like wait, where did this money come from? She loves her ring but it hasn't fit since she had Carter. Charles says he never wanted to upgrade the ring because of the sentimental value. Shireen mentions that she was still hiding money when they got engaged because now she was saving to buy him the watch he really wanted. They knew they were getting ready to pay for a wedding and then buy a house. Charles was panicked when Shireen offered to quit her job so she could move in with him and was pissed when he realized she had 30k saved. Marriage later increased the pressure...more on that next episode!(31:18-35:37)

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Patience is a virtue! Charles and Shireen kick off episode 5 talking about delayed gratification. Charles has been curating events celebrating community and women, but none of it has been on his time. Shireen said this is a season of tests for Charles, she believes God wants to see how Charles will do trusting other people to take the lead(0:42-2:45). Theres other sides to Charles aside from the fun-loving life of the party persona. He used to treat his now-flourishing businesses as hobbies and side hustles. He has a great business mind and a creative one, he just had to learn how to apply strategies to both. He wasn't always this organized and focused, but Charles' older brother was his idol, so he pushed himself to secure a college scholarship(3:20-7:15). Charles' first R&B Houseparty was at his frat house. He was discovering new passions but had to put them on the back burner so he could develop a new skill set at his finance operations job. He later realized how crucial those skills would be in his own business building. Shireen helped him land a recruiter job but Charles was horrible at it. He worked so hard and felt like he was learning but couldn't execute properly. They actually got married on the same date that Charles got let go from that job, because he wanted to turn that negative into a positive. His only regret was calling out after he made a mistake, saying if he had gotten in front of it, he could've had more time to prep for the job he really wanted(9:05-13:20). Shireen saw Charles lose steam and ambition, facing rejection after rejection. Shireen handled all his job applications during that year. Charles says he spoils her now for how she held him down in the trenches. Charles' brother reminded him that if he had a passion, the money would come(easy for someone with money to say!). Charles took a recruiting job with less salary but he loved it. Ambition returned when the passion was nurtutred(14:02-19:05). Charles honed in on the skills he learned from finance and runs a tight ship. Now Shireen says he's a bit OCD and she's figuring out how to be supportive. Charles claims that Shireen is his soundboard and he's not as powerful without her. There are a bunch of conversations between them before Charles pitches anything. He spends a lot of time micromanaging and has a tough time with disappointment. He's been able to plan the last 4years of his life, getting comfortable with uncomfortable conversations at work. While working at Facebook/Meta, he learned to appreciate feedback(19:35-24:11). Shireen says she approaches feedback with radical candor and empathy by focusing on the issue, not criticism of the person. The pandemic softened Charles professionally and made him more empathetic. They both work in tech and know how fickle that industry is, so they lead with empathy and stay prayerful. The skill building jobs that required patience, are what helped them have successful businesses. Every job set them up for the next. Shireen believes you can pitch yourself while still figuring yourself out. Charles says shooters shoot and advises not to fear hearing "no's". Lean in and stay the course, manifestation is real(24:53-33:10).

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Focusing on yourself is tough to do with a spouse and kids, but this week the Kuykendolls unpack what that means for them. Shireen and Charles discuss whats coming up on their schedules; bachelorette and influencer trips, mixing work/play. Before the kids, Shireen was active and outside! So much so that Charles was known as "Shireen's boyfriend"(0:20-4:16). Shireen and Charles' relationship was long distance for 3 years, so balancing time with each other and friends was tough. They both respect each other's friendships because they were friends first. Being a host/event curator, Charles has a ton of platonic female friends. "Everyone gets 'beloved', and I get Charles" - Shireen. She has never told him he can't hang out with anyone. Charles makes sure Shireen is included in the friendship building so that she's more comfortable (7:30-12:30). Their marriage is reinforced by consistency and trust. Both have become great at nurturing their individual friendships and the ones closest to them are ingrained in the marriage. Charles is proud of his family, so no one could ever be close to him and not be close to Shireen, and vice versa (13:10-18:00). There was a guy in Chicago at an event Charles was hosting, that bought Shireen a drink. Charles says its ok to socialize without throwing your wedding band in someone's face. Shireen let him know she was married and he clarified he was interested in attending Charles' next event so they exchanged info. When he started texting her about random things and not the ticket link, Shireen stopped responding and shared what was going on with Charles. They both believe in friendships with the opposite sex, so transparency has never been an issue. Charles made a joke about the guy, calling him 'entanglement bae'. Most couples aren't mature or hnest enough to have these types of convos (18:30-25:00). Because they're so close, neither wants to be outside without the other. LA is a social scene, Shireen tries to avoid if it isn't their core friend group. They discuss a curfew, and how its different in each city (LA closes at 2am, NYC at 4am). Charles is a light sleeper and can't fully fall asleep until Shireen gets home. When Charles is out in LA, a 2:30 text is requested so Shireen doesn't jump to worst case scenario. When you're Black in America and don't come home when expected, its scary. To minimize confusion and prioritize safety, they share locations with each other(28:50-37:20). When it comes to individual friends vs mutual friends, its touchy. Shireen knows that friends always will pick their partner over their friends, so they try to stand in solidarity. Shireen knows that he has friends whose loyalty will always be to Charles and she's ok with that. Sharing friends on the west coast didn't feel good to Shireen at first because they would treat her differently. Shireen talks about how intenional Bridget was about being her friend and affirmed that it was ok to develop friendships separate from Charles. They've figured out what works for them, its trial and error, but keep the peace in your home first(39:00-48:48). Nurture the relationships that support and uplift you and your partner. 

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Episode 3 is heavy! The couple share that weight is a sensitive subject, both have fluctuated in size over the past 11 years. Charles is back in the gym and encourages Shireen to keep up, despite prefering her more full bodied than skinny (1:55-3:58). Charles has a goal weight in mind, but he's gone beyond that number. He was born big, struggled with weight his whole life. Everyone called Charles big boned, in church it was normalized to be husky and since he could cook and saw it as a chance for fellowship or a celebratory occasion, food became a crutch. A girl in 3rd grade told him she would date him if he lost weight and it stuck with him (6:02-9:58). Charles admits to having an obsessive personality and has avoided the work in fitness. He posts everything about his life on social media except his workouts in case he falls off. Shireen acknowledges his latest efforts, which include dragging her to the gym, sometimes while pushing the stroller (11:27-15:00). Shireen shares that she is 40lbs from where she used to be and wants to be. Charles motivates/encourages her by reminding her how attractive she was to him while pregnant. Charles and Shireen confess to enabling each other with food. Charles is a dessert person, goes to Mastros and eats light just so he can enjoy the butter cake (15:02-18:09). Shireen says she carried big during pregnancy (53lbs with CJ, 49lbs with Carter) and her body will never be the same, which is a tough pill to swallow. She wants lipo and a tummy tuck and supports all women to make those choices for their bodies. Shireen expresses the pressure she feels to look a certain way in LA, compared to NY. She sometimes feels looked over or invisible and men have it easy. Many women in LA have had very obvious procedures, Shireen wants hers to be subtle (18:30-23:03). Shireen goes on to say that Black women don't receive the same amount of attention in LA, but it hasn't swayed her confidence. She does however think it would be harder for her if she was single and in the dating pool. Shireen is learning to love her curves, and give herself grace since having the baby. It isn't talked about at length with friends, so she's trying to change that(23:33-26:18). Charles has always been honest with her; if something looks out of place, he knows how to communicate that. Shireen says he is annoying when he gets into fitness, eating 1 salad and being down 3lbs, while she starves and works out to lose half a pound. They'll be watching the progress on camera in each episode to keep each other accountable. Even if your goal isn't to lose weight, everyone should move their body every day(27:05-31:13).

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This week, Charles and Shireen dive right in to the latest adjustment in their household; Carter (baby #2) is here and maternity leave/paternity leave are inn full effect!  Charles is back in his R&B HouseParty bag now that he's on paternity leave, and Shireen talks about going back to work from home after 5mo with the baby. She says she can get distracted by nursing, taking supplements, and balancing her mental

(3:08-4:14). Charles talks about wanting to be the Tom Joyner of our generation, sharing the fun side and the business savvy side. He says having a mini him in CJ felt so perfect, he didn't know it could get even better having 2

(5:20-7:55). They discuss their different takes on timing; Charles wasn't ready for another kid the same time Shireen was, and then was impatient once he got on board, finally conceiving after 9mo

(9:34-14:30). Despite having in-house support from Charles' mother Shontina, which Shireen loves, Charles has a hard time being fully comfortable as the man of his house. To the kids, grandma can do no wrong, same dynamic with Charles and his grandmother

(16:10-20:10). Charles talks about this difference between 1-2 kids, wants to stay home more, event scheduling is done around family now. CJ is a sweet sensitive child and both parents work to make sure hes always nurtured. They make it a point to designate one on one time with both kids. Charles/CJ time is getting haircuts together

(23:02-29:10). Shireen shares that she had baby blues but not full postpartum depression with CJ. She didn't know what she needed and couldn't articulate it. Charles struggled trying to find a solution so just implored that the best thing he could do was just be there to listen. He surprised her with her NY friends for her birthday. Shireen's sacrifice uprooting to the west coast didn't go unnoticed by Charles. From the bay to LA, they prayed constantly. "Your blessing isn't your comfort zone"-Shireen

(30:00-38:09). They're happy to know/have more knowledge and support with baby #2, so the prayers are to be richer and richer since childcare is expensive(private school, larger house). The couple advise everyone considering expanding their family to communicate with their partners and families. Consult doctors, ladies talk to other mothers/like minded people. Check on your strong friends and strong parents

(42:21-44:00)

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In their very first episode, Charles and Shireen introduce themselves to the audience walk them through how long it has taken to conceive this podcast. Since participating in the 'Black Love' TV series and having their second baby last year, life has been life-ing! (1:20-1:45) Shireen admits to getting in her own way and Charles encourages her to step into her main character energy. (2:00-3:45) Shireen shares where the title "For Better Or Best" came from (5:00-6:10). Charles is a bit of a perfectionist, and it shows in his work/family life (7:10-7:45) Both talk a bit about their origin story. They worked together and became friends but weren't romantic for a while(11:30-14:40) They were long distance for most of their pre-marital relationship.(16:00-17:02) Charles also shares his recent vysectomy experience; explaining the process, the thoughts that led to the decision and addressing the stigmas for Black men surrounding their "manhood". Shireen expresses her gratitude and clearly states she doesn't want anymore children after her 2 C-sections and also wants the freedom of not being on birth control anymore. Adoption or surrogacy might be an option but not yet. 

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