Grief Out Loud

It's our 300th episode and this conversation with Maegan Parker Brooks, PhD, is the perfect one to honor that milestone. Maegan is an Associate Professor at Willamette University and a volunteer at Dougy Center where she facilitates a peer grief support group for adult caregivers of teens who are grieving. Maegan is also a daughter and sister, grieving the deaths of her father, her sister Emily, and her mother. In this conversation we talk about grief and estranged relationships, relationships impacted by substance use, non-death losses, memorialization during the pandemic, and all the ways we talk to one another - and ourselves - about that grief.

Maegan Parker Brooks, PhD is an Associate Professor and Chair of the Civic Communication & Media Department at Willamette University. At Willamette, Maegan teaches courses in Death and Grief Communication and facilitates the Diversity of Loss grief support group. Beyond Willamette, Maegan co-facilitates a group for adult caregivers of grieving teens at The Dougy Center and she recently earned a certificate in Arts-Assisted Grief Therapy at the Portland Institute for Loss & Transition.

Related Articles: Brooks, Maegan P. "Listening to Grief." Willamette., 1 Feb. 2024, pp. 20-21. Brooks, Maegan P. "Listening to Layers of Loss." Journal of Autoethnography, 4, 2 (2023): 174-192. Want to help us celebrate our 300th episode? Be sure to follow the show and give us a rating/review on whatever platform you use to listen! Grief Out Loud® is a production of Dougy Center, The National Grief Center for Children & Families.

Kendra Rinaldi knows a lot about grief. When she was just 21, her sister died in a car accident. Ten years later she had a miscarriage. Ten years after that, her mother died of cancer. Professionally, she is a grief guide and host of the Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. But she didn't always get grief. When she was 21, she didn't realize that everything she was thinking, feeling, and experiencing after her sister's death counted as grief. In the years since, Kendra's gotten to know her grief well and uses that knowledge to support others.

We discuss:

• The spectrum of losses Kendra's experienced
  • Grieving her sister's death in a car accident
  • Grieving a miscarriage
  • Grieving her mother's death from pancreatic cancer
• What can be different between a sudden death vs. one from a long-term illness
• Discerning grief from depression
• Writing as a tool for navigating grief and staying connected to her sister
• How Kendra's sister's death shifted family dynamics
• Tri-lingual grieving - and why Spanglish is her favorite language for grief
• How grief is approached differently in the U.S. and Kendra's home country, Colombia
• The origin of the Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast
• The hardest aspect of doing a podcast about grief
• Kendra's recent sneaky grief attack

Follow Kendra on IG @griefgratitudepodcast

Want to help with our special Children's Grief Awareness Month episode? If you have a child or teen in your world who is grieving a death who would like to participate, you can record a voice memo of them responding to one or more of the following prompts and email it to [email protected]

1. When my ____ died, I felt...
2. When I'm missing them, ____ helps the most
3. Today, my grief feels like...
4. In the future, I hope my grief feels...

Thank you for considering!

It might be better to ask Canada Taylor what she doesn't do in the realm of suicide prevention, postvention, and grief support rather than what she does because she seems to do just about everything and anything. This is part two of our conversation with her, so if you missed the first, Ep. 297: Honoring A Great Love, be sure to listen. In this episode, we talk about the holistic approach she takes to suicide prevention, intervention, and postvention. An approach that focuses on building a world worth living in. A world where youth - and people of any age - have their basic needs met and can access safety, community, and true belonging.

We discuss:

• Some of the professional roles Canada holds
• What is different for grief professionals and educators when the topic of suicide arises
• The changing landscape of suicide prevention & postvention
• How systems and institutions can create barriers to more humane and effective interventions
• What we still don't know when it comes to suicide
• How stigma, shame, and isolation contribute to suicide - and the harm they cause for those left behind
• Risk factors for youth suicide, especially for BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ youth
• Protective factors like belonging, safety, and community
• Why cultural & community specific prevention & intervention strategies are necessary
• What the headlines get wrong about youth suicide
• The pockets of hope Canada's come across in the field

Since 2005 Canada Taylor has worked in behavioral health care serving youth and adults, with a focus in deathcare and helping families navigate grief, loss, and trauma amidst crisis. Relational, restorative, and transformative approaches are key underpinnings to Canada's holistic, integrative philosophy to creating change and healing for all. Currently she is the Suicide Prevention Coordinator and Postvention Response Lead for the Multnomah County Health Department. Canada was honored with the Trillium Health Mental Health Hero award in 2021 and Multnomah County's Committee Choice Award in 2024 for her work in grief and suicide prevention. Grounding spaces in humor, authenticity, and vulnerability are essential to Canada's professional and personal life, and especially her work in suicide prevention.

Organizations we reference:

School Crisis Recovery & Renewal Network (SCRR)

SAMSHA Black Youth Suicide Prevention Coalition

National Suicide Prevention Month

If you are someone you know is struggling, please reach out

Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: 988

Trans Lifeline: 877.565.8860

YouthLine: 877.968.8491

BlackLine: 800.604.5841

LGBTQ National Hotline: 888.843.4564

The Trevor Project: 866.488.7386

Twelve years ago today - August 30th - Canada Taylor was having an amazing night. She and her husband Rick were sitting outside, talking about life and work and dreams for the future - their future. Then everything changed. Rick had a medical event, and Canada became his first responder. Hours later, she became his widow. In the twelve years since, things continued to change. Canada's two sons grew up and grew into their grief. She changed the course of her career - moving from behavioral health to suicide prevention and grief justice. Throughout all these changes, Canada has found ways to honor who Rick was in this world and the love they share.

We discuss:

• What Canada's husband saw in her that no one else did
• The last day they spent together
• Being a first responder for Rick & the trauma that brought
• Supporting her two children
• The challenge of finding culturally relevant grief support for her kids
• How difficult it was to find skilled support for herself
• A preview of how grief informs the work Canada does in the realm of suicide prevention & postvention
• How Canada plans to honor the anniversary of Rick's death this year

Connect with Canada on IG @canadalauren and Linkedin

When Barri Leiner Grant was 28, her mother Ellen died suddenly. Barri was hit with intense grief, but back then the expectation was to hurry up and get back to work and life. She didn't have the time, space, or tools to acknowledge and attend to grief. Over the past 31 years, Barri and her grief have gotten to know each other on a deep level. In this long-term relationship, she's learned that her grief gets louder each time she reaches a new milestone or faces a transition. Even with that knowing, the grief can still find ways to catch her off-guard. Recently, one of those times was watching her daughter turn the same age Barri was when her mother died.

We discuss:

• How Barri's mom, Ellen, was a woman before her time
• The day her mother died and the last sounds she heard
• What the early days of grief felt like
• The untenable expectation to get back to "normal"
• Finding Hope Edelman's book, Motherless Daughters
• The grief tending tools Barri turned to over the past 31 years
• Her daughter turning the age Barri was when her mother died
• The newer grief of being a caregiver for her father who has dementia
• How The Memory Circle came to be and Barri's work as a grief coach
• One of Barri's favorite ways to engage with grief - writing

Barri Leiner Grant is the founder and Chief Grief Officer™, of The Memory Circle for grief support--a place and space she created in 2019, for those learning to live with loss. She left a longtime career as a journalist and motherloss peer guide, to pursue full-time work and training as a Certified Grief Coach and Educator. Connect with Barri on Instagram and Substack.

In May of 2023, Sweta Vikram was overwhelmed with grief. In the span of three days, her father died, her father-in-law died, and it was the 9-year anniversary of her mother's death. When she looked for information on how to survive the maelstrom of emotions, she found reassurances that she would eventually get to the other side, but nothing that showed her how to do that. So, Sweta set out to create the resource she was looking for and recently published, The Loss That Binds Us, a manual with 108 practical tips to survive and navigate grief.

We discuss:

• The overwhelm of multiple losses
• Turning to writing for solace and support
• Lessons she learned from each of her parents
• The impact of sudden vs. expected death
• Becoming a protector & caregiver for her dad - and the comfort that brought after he died
• How grief shaped Sweta's values
• The meaning behind the number 108 across multiple cultures
• How she managed to finish her PhD in Ayurvedic Medicine so early in her grief
• Which of Sweta's tips are the easiest and hardest for her to follow
• Her relationship to forgiveness in the context of grief
• How she approaches the anniversary season
• Sweta's self-care practices

Sweta Srivastava Vikram is an international speaker, author, and Ayurvedic Doctor who also teaches yoga and meditation.

Camille Sapara Barton is a social imagineer who is reimagining how we define and relate to grief. As a writer, artist, and somatic practitioner, Camille is looking to create a new grief narrative expansive enough to include multiple forms of individual and collective grief, especially for queer, trans, and BIPOC communities. In Camille's book, Tending Grief, they offer rituals and embodied practices for feeling into and metabolizing grief.

• Camille's lived experience with grieving death & non-death losses
• Support for grief that falls outside the traditional box
• Grief as a generative process
• Camille's learning from Dagara spiritual traditions and Sobonfu Somé
• Collective grief that comes out of displacement, colonization, and threats to queer & trans people around the world
• How we numb our grief and the cost of doing so
• The narrative Camille is hoping to create around grief
• Examples of embodied practices to tend grief

Be sure to check out Camille's new book, Tending Grief - Embodied Rituals for Holding Our Sorrow and Growing Cultures of Care in Community.

Cody Delistraty is a journalist and he's also a son whose mother died of cancer. These two identities intersect in his new book, The Grief Cure, which chronicles his quest to find a way to eliminate the pain of grief. After exploring Laughter Therapy, silent meditation, Breakup Bootcamp, and other avenues for grief expression, Cody landed where so many others do: realizing the "cure" for grief is allowing it to exist, while still engaging with life.

We discuss:

1. Who Cody was when his mom died
2. How he used to define "successful" grief
3. The secondary losses connected to his mother's death
4. How his relationship to the 5 Stages of Grief evolved over time
5. The quest to "cure" grief and the options he explored
6. Which grief memory Cody most wished he could erase
7. How important community can be
8. Learning to embrace both grief and an ongoing connection with his mother

Cody Delistraty is a journalist and speechwriter in New York City. As a journalist, he has written stories, profiles and essays for The New York Times, The New Yorker and The Atlantic, among many others. He has served as culture editor at The Wall Street Journal's magazine and as features editor of the Paris-based magazine Mastermind.

It's impossible to speak for an entire community, especially when it comes to grief, but Sharice Burnett, LCSW, knows a lot about the ripple effect of loss in the Black and African American community in Portland, OR. Born and raised in the community, Sharice is a clinical mental health therapist and consultant dedicated to naming and dismantling the larger systemic barriers that stand in the way of Black children and families having access to culturally relevant support, particularly mental health and grief support.

We discuss:

• Grieving the loss of an entire generation of elders during the Covid-19 pandemic
• The grief and displacement from the Vanport Flood of 1948
• The cultural nuances of grief
• Historic, intergenerational, and collective grief
• The unacknowledged grief of racism
• How each death & loss ripples out to the larger Black/African American Portland community
• How safety from racial harm is critical to accessing grief support services
• Sharice's hopes and dreams for creating more culturally relevant grief support
• Creative grief support & healing spaces for Portland's Black community (Black Rose Wellness)

This episode is the third and final in our 2024 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.

Lisa Keefauver is a lot of things - she's a writer, speaker, educator, social worker, podcast host, mother, widow, and grief activist. She came to the last two titles when her personal experience of grieving for her husband Eric, who died of a brain tumor in 2011, intersected with her professional life as a clinician. At this intersection, Lisa realized just how grief illiterate the world is and how that illiteracy creates unnecessary suffering for those who are grieving. Lisa hosts the acclaimed podcast, Grief is a Sneaky Bitch and recently published her book, Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss.

We discuss:

• The gift of love from her husband Eric
• Living in the both/and of grief and life
• Being a mental health professional while grieving
• Navigating a breast cancer diagnosis in a medical system that failed her husband
• How we bring our full history into each new loss
• The "shoulds" that hassled Lisa
• The grief time warp
• Grief thieves - including the one in the mirror
• Lisa's go-to skill in her own grief
• The power of observation & being with grief as it is

Lisa Keefauver is a grief activist, speaker and author. She began her career as a social worker and narrative therapist in 2004. She expanded her activism in a variety of roles: clinical director, non-profit co-founder, clinical supervisor, facilitator of personal and professional growth and healing, and mentor. Lisa's wisdom and insights on grief are also embodied from her personal losses, including the death of her husband Eric in 2011.