Grief Out Loud

Dr. Donna Schuurman is back - this time talking about the dangers of pathologizing grief. While the term "complicated grief" has been used in various grief settings for years, it wasn't until March of 2022 that Prolonged Grief Disorder made it into the DSM-5-TR - the Diagnostical & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - as an official diagnosis. This conversation explores the concerns Donna and others in the field share about the move to pathologize grief.

We discuss:

• What Donna's learned about grief working in the field for over 30 years

• How that work experience shapes her personal grief

• Why she is so passionate about this topic

• The history of how Prolonged Grief Disorder came to be in the DSM

• How diagnoses are social constructs - and who often gets left out of the studies behind these constructs

• The dangers of pathologizing grief as a mental disorder

• The (short list) of positives of Prolonged Grief Disorder being available as a diagnosis

• Other trends in the field to pathologize or "do away" with grief

• What Donna is optimistic about in the field of bereavement

Register for Donna's upcoming webinar: Flawed Foundations, Deconstructing Three Contemporary Grief Constructs Thursday, February 8, 2024.

Donna L. Schuurman, EdD, FT, is the Senior Director of Advocacy & Education at Dougy Center. Dr. Schuurman was the Executive Director of Dougy Center from 1991–2015. Dr. Schuurman is an internationally recognized authority on grief and bereaved children, teens, and families, and the author of Never the Same: Coming to Terms with the Death of a Parent (St. Martin's Press, 2003), among other publications.

When Sat Kaur Khalsa, MSW, was three, her older brother died in a drowning accident. After his death, he continued to disappear - his photos were taken down and no one talked about him. As she grew up, she learned the implicit lesson to be a good kid because her parents were already dealing with enough. She also learned that grief wasn't something you talked about or shared with others. Now, as an adult, she's working to make sure kids her age get to have a different experience. Sat Kaur is the Family Services Coordinator at Dougy Center where she supports children of all ages and their families after a death. In that role she has a special love for working the youngest kids - those who are 3-5 years old - and helping them have the chance to do what she didn't: talk about their people, express their emotions, and be with others who get what they are going through.

We discuss:

• Sat Kaur's role at Dougy Center & personal connection to the work
• What she remembers about being three when her older brother died
• How his death changed her family and their dynamic
• Learning the implicit lesson to be a good kid to not make things harder for her parents
• Her commitment to being more open about grief with her own child
• Why she loves working with preschoolers who are grieving
• How preschoolers grieve similarly and differently to older kids and teens
• Suggestions for age appropriate ways to talk about grief and loss
• What adults can do to support preschoolers who are grieving a death

Be sure to check out our Youngest Grievers Toolkit for books, Tip Sheets, activities, and more.

What does it mean to be grief-informed? In 2020, Dr. Donna Schuurman, EdD, FT, and Dr. Monique Mitchell, PhD, FT, authored the paper, "Becoming Grief-Informed: A Call to Action," which outlines: what it means to be grief-informed, why it's so important, and Dougy Center's 10 Core Principles and Tenets of Grief-Informed Practice. This paper is based on the foundational understanding of grief as a natural and normal response to loss that is interwoven into a sociocultural context. It recognizes grief not as an experience that needs to be fixed, treated, or pathologized, but one that deserves understanding, support, and community.

Donna L. Schuurman, EdD, FT, is the Senior Director of Advocacy & Education at Dougy Center. Dr. Schuurman was the Executive Director of Dougy Center from 1991–2015. Dr. Schuurman is an internationally recognized authority on grief and bereaved children, teens, and families, and the author of Never the Same: Coming to Terms with the Death of a Parent (St. Martin's Press, 2003), among other publications.

Monique B. Mitchell, PhD, FT is the Director of Training and Translational Research at Dougy Center. Dr. Mitchell is a nationally recognized authority on children, teens, and families who are grieving in foster care, and the author of The Neglected Transition: Building a Relational Home for Children Entering Foster Care (Oxford University Press, 2016) and Living in an Inspired World: Voices and Visions of Youth in Foster Care (Child Welfare League of America Press, 2017), among other publications.

We discuss:

• Donna and Monique's connection to this work
• What it means to be grief-informed
• Why it's necessary to be grief-informed
• Examples of responses that are grief-informed and not grief-informed
• Seven core principles that describe what grief is and is not
• Three core principles that address how to provide grief-informed support
• Suggestions for how we can all work to be more grief-informed - for ourselves and others

Sign up for our Grief Education Webinar - Becoming Grief-Informed: Foundations of Grief Education. Thursday, January 18th, 2024, 10 - 11:30 am PST.

The reality for Black individuals and families living in the U.S. is that death happens more often and earlier on than for their white counterparts. In the last two decades, these higher rates of mortality resulted in 1.63 million excess deaths for Black Americans compared to white Americans. Doneila McIntosh brings her personal and professional experiences with this reality to her work as a researcher studying the intersections of disenfranchised grief among African American families. Disenfranchised grief occurs when a loss isn't recognized or seen as valid, often the result of stigma. The disenfranchisement of Black grief is rooted in racism, which influences both the disproportionate rates of mortality and the lack of support for grief and grief expression.

Doneila McIntosh is a doctoral student at the University of Minnesota in Family Social Science with an emphasis in Marriage and Family Therapy. Doneila has a Master of Divinity (M.Div.) in Theological Studies and a Master of Arts in Counseling Psychology (M.A.). Prior to becoming a psychotherapist, she worked as a chaplain for nearly 10 years.

We discuss:

• Doneila's current research on understanding the impact of disproportionate rates of death and grief in the African American community.

• Her personal and professional motivation to do this work.

• The desecration of sacred Black grief spaces.

• How structural racism leads to Doneila and other researchers having to "prove" the reality of disproportionate rates of death for Black people living in the U.S.

• The disenfranchisement of African American grief.

• How the language we use to talk about grief is rooted in culture and how that can be a strength.

• The gap in the research literature about Black and African American grief.

• Culturally specific interventions to support grief.

• How culture shapes grief expression.

• Doneila's work to become literate in the historical & current context of Black grief and the cultural strengths she uncovered along the way.

• How her family honors her grandfather's legacy.

Follow Doneila on IG @doneila_mcintosh

What started out as an average winter morning ended up being one that would change everything in Melissa Pierce's life. She went to wake up her husband Dave for their son's basketball game and found him unresponsive. Dave had died during the night and the cause of death was never determined. Melissa jumped into figuring out logistics - planning a memorial, getting her sons to school, moving their family, working a full-time job - but eventually she had to figure out herself. It meant focusing on what she was thinking, feeling, and needing in her grief. That shift to prioritizing self-care ended up changing everything, again.

We discuss

• How Melissa and Dave met and fell in love

• The process of adopting their two sons

• How the shock of Dave's sudden death led to what Melissa calls "Zombie mode"

• Being the person who found Dave when he died and how that impacted her grief

• Grieving when the cause of death is undetermined

• The financial, logistical, and emotional reality of being a solo parent

• Having to tell her sons that their dad died

• When Melissa started to feel her feelings in grief

• The physical toll of grief

• Where Melissa turned for support

• How prioritizing self-care changed everything

• The origin story of the Widow Squad community

Melissa is the author of Filled With Gold: A Widow's Story, co-founder of The Widow Squad community, and co-host of The Widow Squad podcast.

Listen to The Widow Squad podcast Episode 41- Holidays and Grief: Strategies to Get Through the Holidays After Your Spouse Dies.

Dina Gachman's mother died of cancer in 2018 and less than three years later her sister died of alcoholism. A career journalist, Dina turned to writing as one way to make sense of these world altering losses. She recently published, "So Sorry for Your Loss," a series of essays that combine personal reflections with information she gathered from professionals working in the world of grief.

In this conversation we discuss:

• How recalling memories of her mom and sister has become less painful
• Parenting a young child while grieving
• How she realized she needed additional support
• Finding comfort in the Continuing Bonds theory
• When grief feels like agitation
• Approaching the five-year anniversary of her mother's death
• How her mom continued to care for her even as she was dying
• The expectation vs. reality of hospice care
• Using humor as a way to cope - and carry on her mom's legacy
• Grieving two losses in such close succession
• Recognizing that grief started when her mom was diagnosed, years before her death
• The gift of growing up in an emotionally expressive family
• GIEAs - Grief Induced Emotional Avalanches

Dina Gachman is an award-winning journalist, Pulitzer Center Grantee, and a frequent contributor to the New York Times, Vox, Texas Monthly and more. She's a New York Times bestselling ghostwriter, and the author of Brokenomics: 50 Ways to Live the Dream on a Dime.

In January of 2022, Adam Sawyer had everything he dreamed of and more. His partner Kara was the love of his life. Their cat Lela was his all-time favorite animal. Their off the grid house, Whiskey Jane, was the best place he had ever lived.

By the end of February, 2022, Adam lost all three of them. Kara and Lela died when Whiskey Jane was destroyed in a fire.

We discuss

• Getting "the call" about the fire
• Being fully immersed in grief with no responsibilities
• Nature's role in Adam's healing process
• Examining the ways he tells people about his losses
• The parallels between grief and his recovery from heroin addiction
• Adam's first glimmers of hope
• Finding a new home, a new purpose, and a new romantic connection
• What it's been like to go public with his story through writing and presentations
• How Adam stays connected to his grief

Find Adam on Substack and Facebook

It's our fifth annual holidays & grief episode! This time of year can be grueling for anyone, but particularly for those who are grieving. So, each year we put out an episode to help you feel less alone and hopefully more equipped to traverse the next few weeks. Today's guest, Melissa Peede Thompson, M.S., is a Grief Services Coordinator at Dougy Center. While she has lots of professional knowledge in this realm, we asked her to talk about her personal experience of grieving during the holidays. Melissa was six when her sister died of gun violence. She was 13 when her father died in a motorcycle accident. And she was a young adult when her grandparents died. Each loss shaped - and continues to shape - how Melissa and her family approach this time of year. We discuss:

• How her sister's death impacted her parents at the holidays
• What she remembers about the first Christmas after her dad died
• Grieving for her her grandparents before they died
• How the holidays can feel empty, even when the house is full
• Melissa's realization that grief has left her a little bit "Grinchy"
• What she's doing to shift how she thinks and feels about the holidays
• Learning to appreciate being able to spend time with the people who are still alive
• Why St. Patrick's Day became her favorite holiday
• Taking the pressure off trying to make the holidays feel the same after someone dies

If you missed our past Holidays & Grief episodes, be sure to listen to Ep. 27, 98, 174, 240.

Tips For Getting Through the Holidays & Holiday Plan Worksheet.

Register for our "Navigating Grief During the Holidays" webinar happening on Thursday, 12.7.23, 10 am - 11:30 am PST.

When Meghan Riordan Jarvis's mother died suddenly, just two years after her father died of cancer, she watched herself grieving from two perspectives. One as a daughter and the other as a trauma-informed therapist. As a daughter she was devastated and deeply impacted on all levels. As a therapist, she recognized in her grief signs of PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. The therapist part of her also realized she wasn't getting better on her own and needed the next level of care. Meghan's new book, End of the Hour, A Therapist's Memoir, chronicles the unresolved trauma of her early life, how it resurfaced after her parents died, and how she tended to both her grief and trauma.

We discuss:

• Meghan's relationship to memories of her parents
• How she grieved differently for her father and mother - and why
• Her childhood experience of grief and how that led to her developing PTSD
• The signs that let her know she needed the next level of care
• How she came to write her new memoir
• The various trauma interventions she tried - and which ones helped

Grief is My Side Hustle website Grief is My Side Hustle podcast @meghan.riordan.jarvis on IG @griefismysidehustle on Fbook

Bridget was in high school when her dad died of a heart attack in 2020. Their relationship was complicated. She loved the way her more creative side came out when they spent time together, but she also struggled with how he kept a lot of his history from her. In grieving for him, Bridget's had to reckon with two things being true at the same time. The first is that in some ways Bridget's life became easier and more stable after he died. The second is the reality that she still loves him, misses him, and wishes he could be there for all the milestones unfolding in her life.

This series is a part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and the New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy on behalf of children and teens who are grieving.

Download a copy of the New York Life Foundation's newest resource for teens who are grieving - Lost in the Middle.