Colin Campbell is a lot of things - writer, husband, friend - but the role he identifies with most is being a father. So, when his two teenage children, Ruby & Hart, were killed by a drunk driver in 2019, Colin was lost and terrified. Who was he without his kids? How would he survive the intensity of grief? Soon after their deaths, well-meaning friends and family would say, "There are no words," but for Colin, this phrase wasn't comforting. It left him feeling more alone because what he really needed were words. Words so he could talk about Ruby & Hart. Words to help articulate his pain. And words from others who shared what they remembered and missed about his children. Colin's book, Finding the Words: Working Through Profound Loss With Hope and Purpose, outlines the words and actions that helped him stay close to Ruby & Hart while learning to live in a world without them.

Topics in our conversation:

• How Colin continues to honor and remember Ruby & Hart
• The rituals and routines that were helpful in the early days of grief
• How Colin navigates guilt and anger
• Learning to lean into the pain
• Finding ways for joy to live alongside grief
• The myth that the death of a child leads to divorce
• How Colin continues to embody being a father

Colin's article in The Atlantic - What Losing My Two Children Taught Me About Grief

When Jessica Schaffer's partner of 25 years, Patrice, died in March of 2021, she found herself untethered. In the early days of grief, Jessica went within, needing to find her orbital pattern in this new solar system without Patrice. During this time she also germinated seeds of creativity. Seeds that were planted by Patrice when she gifted Jessica an iPad, just days before she learned she was dying. In the fall of 2021, Jessica picked up the iPad and started drawing. This process inspired her to start The Chrysalis Imagery, a company where she offers a line of greeting cards and other inspired imagery.

In this conversation we discuss:

• What is was like to midwife Patrice through her dying process
• How the early days of grief felt
• The image that came to Jessica soon after Patrice died
• How creativity changed everything
• The ways their dog Kirby grieved
• Jessica's hopes for The Chrysalis Imagery

Jessica on IG - @thechrysalisimagery and Facebook - @thechrysalisimagery

It's rare for a story to have just one side, especially in grief. This is true for Eddie, whose father died of suicide in 2021. One side of the story is how Eddie's father was in the world - extremely successful and well-regarded. Another side of the story is how he was at home and in his relationship with her. In grief, Eddie has had to reckon with missing her dad while also being confused about why she is missing him. She's also had to navigate living in the world without a dad who was such a force in shaping everything she thought she wanted in life. Eddie is committed to talking openly about grief and mental health and wants to ensure there is room for her and others to tell both sides of the story.

When Tida Beattie's Thai immigrant parents died in 2019, she went from being a long-distance caregiver to an overwhelmed & grieving daughter. In her search for support, she found what so many do, a lack of culturally specific or informed resources. This experience motivated her to change this for others by creating spaces for immigrant families to receive support before and after a death. Tida is a Thai-American end-of-life doula, grief support facilitator, immigrant advocate, and co-founder of MESO, dedicated to supporting caregivers and those in grief with compassion and a cultural lens.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Growing up as a Thai-American and her family's experience of cultural bereavement.
• How her parents' immigrant experience informed their approach to end-of-life.
• What it was like to be a long-distance caregiver.
• Tida's search for culturally relevant grief support.
• The importance of acknowledging cultural bereavement.
• The goal and mission of MESO.
• Learning to hold both joy & grief.

The list of things to do when someone dies is long and burdensome. If one of the things on that list was, "return to work," then this episode is for you. If you're a manager or co-worker wondering how to best support someone when they get to that item on the list, this episode is also for you. In a world where most companies provide woefully inadequate, if any, bereavement leave, many people have to return before they are ready, and when they do go back they are usually met with awkward comments or outright silence. Margo Fowkes, founder of Salt Water, an online community for grief, published her book, Leading Through Loss - How to Navigate Grief at Work, with the hope of easing this transition, both for employees and employers. We talk about:

• How Margo's experience as a mother grieving a son and a daughter grieving a mother inspired her to start Salt Water.
• Why it's important for companies to support their employees who are grieving.
• The power of peer support in the work place.
• How support doesn't always mean more time off.
• What employees identified as their biggest need at work.
• Examples of effective work place support.
• How writing this book helped Margo reflect on how she and her family returned to work and school after her son died.

Listen to Margo's previous interview on Grief Out Loud. Ep. 172 Living After Your Child's Life Ends.

After her mother died in 2013, Charlene Lam faced the daunting prospect of dealing with all of her belongings. Making decisions about what to keep felt impossible, so Charlene turned to her skills as a gallery curator and asked herself: "If I was to do an exhibition about my mother, which 100 objects would I choose?" This experience transformed Charlene's understanding of how to interact with the objects of people's lives. It also inspired her to create the The Grief Gallery and become a grief coach.

Topics we talk about:

• Feeling blindsided by her mother's death.
• Charlene's instinct to plan and do, rather than feel, in the early days of grief.
• How she eventually found ways to express emotion through creativity.
• What she learned about grief from growing up as the child of Chinese immigrants.
• How we can all think about curating the items of our lives, before we die.
• Grief and the Lunar New Year holiday.

Follow Charlene & The Grief Gallery on Instagram.

We wanted to release this episode at the beginning of the new year, because it hits on a topic we haven't explored much before – psychic mediumship. It's something that comes up in our groups at Dougy Center and the people who bring it up usually do so with a lot of trepidation and concern for how others will respond. We figured if it's coming up in our groups, many of you out there might also be curious about this kind of work. Patty Montoya is a psychic medium, energy healer, anticipatory grief coach, Reiki practitioner, and death doula. She came to this work from her personal experience. When she was 18, her younger brother died of leukemia. A few years later, her mother also died, from a fast-moving disease. Patty turned to this work in the hopes of providing others with the support she most needed in her grief. We get into: Common misperceptions about psychic mediumship. What kinds of messages Patty receives and how she translates them. What to expect in a session. How she responds to skepticism about her work. Examples of messages Patty's received from her family members. How she cares for herself in this work. www.titipoza.com Follow Patty on IG & FB

"Are we going to be okay?" This was one of the first questions Amy Choi & Rebecca Lehrer, co-founders of The Mash-Up Americans, posed in their new podcast series, Grief, Collected. Throughout episodes with folks like adrienne maree brown, Dorothy Holinger, and Linda Thai, Rebecca and Amy explore what grief is and how it impacts us emotionally, physically, culturally, and collectively. Rebecca & Amy talk about the questions they posed in this series and how the answers they uncovered are shifting their personal, familial, cultural, and collective responses to grief and loss. Listen to Grief, Collected Check out The Mash-Up Americans

*Note: this episode talks about suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out. You can call 988 or text Hello to 741-741.*

Many of us end up working in the grief world because of our personal experiences. We want to give others what we most needed. This is especially true for Melody Lomboy-Lowe and her niece Gracelyn Bateman, who co-founded Luna Peak Foundation in the hopes of supporting both those affected by cancer and those grieving a death. Melody was diagnosed with cancer when she was 6 and went through intensive treatment until she was 9. Gracelyn's dad, and Melody's brother-in-law, died of a cardiac event while running in 2016. Through their books and social media channels, Luna Peak provides multicultural stories of survivorship and hope. Places we go in this episode: Grieving during the holidays. What Melody needed from adults while she was going through treatment. How interviewing those affected by cancer and those grieving a death has impacted them. Their hopes for Luna Peak Foundation going forward.

Books mentioned: Beyond Remission Beyond Grief Holiday Griefings

When your parent is one of six people in medical history to be diagnosed with and die from a rare disease, the phrase, "The odds are one in a million" takes on a very different meaning. This was true for Rebecca Hobbs-Lawrence, Pathways Program Coordinator at Dougy Center, who was 11 when her father died of heart cancer. At that point, she decided that if something tragic could happen, it would most likely happen to her. This worldview informed so much of how she approached school, dating, family, and becoming a parent. In this conversation we explore:

• The early days of being a parent without her father.
• How vigilance and anxiety led Rebecca to over-function as a parent.
• The joy she found in watching her children get to be kids, without the responsibility she had to take on after her father died.
• How witnessing her grandson survive an extremely rare brain disease has helped rewrite her "one in a million" narrative.

Other Grief Out Loud episodes with Rebecca: Ep. 18: Grieving the Death of a Sibling - Tips for Supporting Children Ep. 20: Grief & Developmental Disabilities Ep. 27: Grief and the Holidays Ep. 67: Creating Legacies in the Face of a Terminal Illness Ep. 98: Under Pressure - Grief & December Holidays Ep. 174: Holidays, Grief & a Pandemic Ep. 240: The (Not) Most Wonderful Time of the Year - Holidays & Grief Mini-Episode