Grief Out Loud

The Autism & Grief Project is a new online platform designed to help adults with autism navigate and cope with the complexities of grief arising from both death and non-death losses. Alex LaMorie, A.A.S is a member of the project's Advisory Board and brings his lived experience with both autism and grief to this work. Dr. Kenneth J. Doka, PhD, MDiv, brings years of both professional and personal grief knowledge to his role on the project's Development Team. The Autism & Grief Project is unique - just as grief and autism are unique - and the site provides information not only for adults with autism who are grieving, but also the people who are supporting them.

We discuss:

• Parallels between the uniqueness of grief and the individual experience of autism
• What Alex found to be helpul and unhelpful in his grief
• Being open to different forms of communication and emotional expression
• Learning to ask for help
• The goals for the Autism & Grief Project
• What Alex and Dr. Doka learned from being part of the project

Alex D. LaMorie, A.A.S is an undergraduate student at the University of Maryland Global Campus and autism advocate. Alex's expressive grief artwork was recently featured in the textbook Superhero Grief: The Transformative Power of Loss (2021, Routledge). He serves as an advisor on the Hospice Foundation of America's Autism & Grief Project. In his spare time, he loves movies and TV shows as well as traveling to Comic Con and Anime conventions with his older sister. Alex also loves creative writing and spending time with his New York family so he can eat the world's best pizza and bagels!

Kenneth J. Doka, PhD, MDiv, is Senior Vice President of Grief Programs at Hospice Foundation of America (HFA) and recipient of the 2019 Lifetime Achievement Award from the Association for Death Education and Counseling. He serves as editor of HFA's Living with Grief® book series and its Journeys bereavement newsletter. He is a prolific author, editor, and lecturer; past president of the Association for Death Education and Counseling (ADEC); and a member and past chair of the International Work Group on Death, Dying, and Bereavement (IWG). In 2018, the IWG presented Doka with the Herman Feifel Award for outstanding achievement in thanatology. He received an award for Outstanding Contributions in the Field of Death Education from ADEC in 1998. Doka is an ordained Lutheran minister and a licensed mental health counselor in the state of New York.

This episode is the second in our 2024 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.

Have you ever heard someone's voice in your head and suddenly you're transported to a time and place when you were with them? This phenomenon is what Lissa Soep explores in Other People's Words: Friendship, Loss, and the Conversations That Never End, her book about the intimacy of friendship and how words and language keep people with us, even after they die. After the deaths of her friends, Jonnie and Christine, Lissa found comfort in this idea of them living on through their words.

We discuss:

• Lissa's friendships with Jonnie & Christine
• Grieving a sudden death vs one from a long-term illness
• The unique nature of friendships formed in our 20's
• How Jonnie & Christine's come back to Lissa through their words
• The Russian critic Mikhail Bahktain's concept of double voicing
• What Lissa's learned about how to support others who are grieving

Lissa Soep is a senior editor for audio at Vox Media and special projects producer and senior scholar-in-residence at YR Media. She has a PhD from Stanford, where she first started writing about Bakhtin.

Cristina Chipriano, LCSW, Dougy Center's Director of Equity & Community Outreach and Melinda Avila, MSW, CEO of OYEN Emotional Wellness Center, are committed to changing the landscape of grief support for Latino families. They bring personal and professional grief experiences to the work of ensuring that every Latino family has access to dual language grief support that honors their cultural values.

We discuss:

• Cristina & Melinda's personal connection to this work
• Why it's important now, in 2024, to have this conversation
• What is unique about grief & grief support in the Latino community
• The concept of family in the Latino community
• How grief challenges our sense of self and identity
• The ways people have been taught to suffer in silence
• How culture informs grief and grief informs culture
• Why it's critical for services to be truly bilingual
• The barriers to accessing services
• The first thing service providers should be thinking about when meeting with a Latino family
• Cristina & Melinda's hopes for the future of grief support for Latino families

This episode is the first in our 2024 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and The New York Life Foundation. We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.

We cannot separate grief from the context in which it occurs. This is true for Nicole Chung whose adopted parents died just two years apart in 2018 and 2020. The world of 2018 was very different than that of 2020. In 2018, Nicole and her mother could grieve for her father, together and in person. In 2020, Nicole was on the other side of the country, grieving for her mother in isolation during the early days of the pandemic. The other context that played a role in her parents' lives and their deaths is the structural inequality that exists in the U.S. economy and end of life care. Nicole chronicles all of this in her new memoir, A Living Remedy.

We discuss:

• How hard it is to describe people and what they mean to us
• What it was like to be cut off from more traditional grief rituals during the pandemic
• Grieving an unexpected vs (more) expected death
• Learning to distinguish between guilt and regret
• How grounding her parents' deaths in a larger context helped alleviate some of her guilt
• The pressures Nicole felt to care for her parents as an only child in a working class family
• What it costs to die and grieve in the U.S.
• The unacknowledged grief of being a transracial adoptee
• Approaching the 4-year anniversary of her mother's death

Nicole Chung's A Living Remedy was named a Notable Book of 2023 by The New York Times and a Best Book of the Year by over a dozen outlets, including Time, USA Today, Harper's Bazaar, Esquire, Electric Literature, and TODAY. Her 2018 debut, the national bestseller All You Can Ever Know, was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award, a semifinalist for the PEN Open Book Award, a Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers selection, and an Indies Choice Honor Book.

Chung's writing has appeared in The New York Times Magazine, The Atlantic, Time, The Guardian, GQ, Slate, Vulture, and many other publications. Previously, she was digital editorial director at the independent publisher Catapult, where she helped lead its magazine to two National Magazine Awards; before that, she was the managing editor of The Toast and an editor at Hyphen magazine. In 2021, she was named to the Good Morning America AAPI Inspiration List honoring those "making Asian American history right now." Born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, she now lives in the Washington, DC area.

Maybe you're familiar with the phrase, "You can't go around grief, you have to go through it." Or, "You have to feel your feelings." If you're like a lot of people, you might cringe and also wonder, "What does that actually mean?" Grief isn't linear, and it's not something to get through - and yet, a lot of people appreciate having some sense of what to expect and what to do with it all. That's where Claire Bidwell Smith's new book, Conscious Grieving, comes in. Offered as a framework, not a formula, Claire suggests four ways to orient towards grief: entering, engaging, surrendering, and transforming. Claire comes to this work with her lived experience of losing both of her parents to cancer by the time she was twenty-five. She's a licensed therapist, international speaker, and the author of five books.

We discuss:

• What Claire's parents would think of her work
• How she stays connected to them
• The rise of anxiety in grief
• The pressure to "move on" from grief
• How those who are grieving carry the burden of educating others
• What Claire does to manage health anxiety
• The four orientations of Conscious Grieving
• How important community can be when it comes to grief
• Where Claire currently is with her grief
• Both sides of the compassion coin

Listen to our previous conversation with Claire, Ep. 109 - Grief & Anxiety.

In 2015, Diane Kalu was living in Nigeria with her husband and their three young children. One day, about eight weeks after the birth of their third child, Diane's husband went to work and never returned. A few days later she got the news that he dad died. She was suddenly a widow, responsible for raising three children under the age of five, in a country with several widowhood customs and traditions that are harmful to women. Thankfully, Diane had her mother to help her survive those early days of widowhood. Then, about five years after her husband's death, Diane's mother also died. Through both of these losses, Diane discovered a lot about herself, including a passion for helping others. That led her to start the WiCare Lekota Foundation, an organization dedicated to supporting widows in Nigeria through social, emotional, financial, and educational support programs.

We discuss:

• Grieving for her mother
• Telling her children their grandmother died
• How her mother supported her after her husband died
• Grief brain fog and how Diane recovered her memory with singing & sticky notes
• Widowhood customs & traditions that are harmful for women
• The ways Diane broke with community expectations for widows
• Pity vs. compassion
• The mindset that helped Diane survive
• What Diane's husband would think of who she is now
• Starting the WiCare Lekota Foundation to support other widows

WiCare on Facebook

Read Transcript

Whenever Annette & Mel connect, there's always a third person in the mix. That third person is Amy, their friend and chosen family member who died in 2012 of pulmonary fibrosis. While they each had a unique friendship with her, both connections were formative and deep. When Amy died, Annette and Mel's friendship grew stronger, because of their shared grief.

This episode is part of a series focused on grieving the death of a friend. As much as we decry there being a hierarchy of grief, most people still assume the death of a family member is harder than the death of a friend. In reality though, the death of a friend or chosen family member can be absolutely devastating, in ways that catch us, and others, off guard.

We discuss:

• Amy's magnetic personality - and what she meant to each of them
• What they both learned from being friends with her
• The different friendships Mel & Annette had with Amy, while still being part of the same circle
• How Annette & Mel got closer through Amy's illness and death
• Witnessing Amy's rapid deterioration
• How she tried to have end of life conversations with both of them
• When they each realized that Amy was going to die
• What grief has been like for both of them
• Annette being diagnosed with the same illness that Amy had
• The "Amy objects" they keep close
• Navigating new relationships with people who never met Amy

Learn more about Annette Leonard and listen to her podcast, Chronic Wellness.

What if there was a place you could go in your grief and be both perfect and broken? That's the kind of place Laura Green dreamed up with her friend and co-founder, Sascha Demerjian. Together they created The Grief House, a community space for people to explore grief through movement, conversation, creativity, and care. Since she was very young, Laura can remember being afraid of death. Afraid of losing everyone and everything she cared about, especially her mother. Three years after starting The Grief House, Laura had to face that biggest fear when her mother, Grace, died in the summer of 2023.

We discuss:

• Laura's current grief expression - clay
• Why she feels so lucky to be her mother's daughter
• The fear of death she's had as long as she can remember
• How her mother's death story has influenced Laura's grief story
• Why it was so important for Laura to spend time with her mother's body
• The physicality of death and grief
• The Grief House's origin story
• What Laura and her co-founder are dreaming up next for The Grief House

Listen to Laura and co-founder Sascha on their podcast, Portals.

Follow The Grief House on IG.

In an instant, Leslie went from sharing every aspect of life with her husband Ryan to feeling like half a person. Leslie, Ryan, their two young children, and their extended family were on vacation in California when Ryan told Leslie that something didn't feel right. He was rushed to the hospital where he died of a stroke and an aneurysym, leaving Leslie to figure out how to live their life without him. The people Leslie most wanted to talk to in her grief were other widows. This inspired her to start Vids for Wids - a project to capture the stories of widows in the hopes of helping others feel less alone.

We discuss:

• How Leslie and Ryan met as co-workers

• The day Ryan died while they were on vacation

• Suddenly feeling like half a person without Ryan

• Telling her very young children about his death

• The early days and weeks of widowhood

• How her kids' grief is changing over time

• The power of talking to other widows

• What Leslie learned about grief from Ryan

• Dating and becoming a remarried widow

• Leslie's Vids for Wids project to support other widows

What happens when you put your grief on hold? In the summer of 2016, Channing Frye was riding high. After over a decade in the NBA, his team, the Cleveland Cavaliers, had won the Championship. Then, in the fall, he hit one of the lowest lows. His mother Karen died of cancer. Just a month later his father, Thomas, also died. Channing put his grief on hold to deal with the logistics of planning two funerals, supporting his family, and going back to work as a professional athlete. Eventually, with the help of his wife, his friends, and a therapist, Channing started to talk about and explore grief in ways that worked better for him. Doing this allowed him to get more present in his life and explore new passions like podcasting and starting a wine label, Chosen Family Wines.

We discuss:

• Channing's parents and how they supported him in his basketball career
• What it was like when his parents died
• Being with his mom as she was dying
• Putting his grief on hold to take care of business
• How his grief intensified after his dad's death
• Going back to the NBA soon after his parents' deaths
• The role alcohol played in his early grief
• How he got into therapy and started working with his grief
• Reclaiming significant days like birthdays, Father's Day, and other holidays
• How he stays grounded & connected to his parents
• The connection between grief and the name of his wine label, Chosen Family

Follow Channing on IG

Listen to his podcast, Road Trippin'