The Growth Vault is LIVE: https://growthinreverse.com/vault

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“This is the underrated growth strategy every newsletter should be using.”

What if every subscriber could turn into 10 more?

In this episode of the Growth In Reverse podcast, Dylan and Chenell unpack one of the most underrated newsletter growth levers: referrals.

They explore how to turn one subscriber into ten, without even needing a full-blown referral platform. From embedding share prompts into your welcome sequence to clever ways to incentivize email forwarding, this episode is packed with low-lift, high-impact strategies that help creators build a referral flywheel — even without a tech stack.

No matter our ESP, get some new ideas and actionable tactics to boost growth using your most valuable asset: your existing subscribers.

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• The absolute best time to ask subscribers for referrals (and why most miss it)
• A surprising strategy a deliverability expert recommends to get more shares
• How one subtle tweak in your welcome email can 10x word-of-mouth growth
• The low-effort email trick that gets people to forward your newsletter
• “Send this to your plant bestie” — why hyper-specific asks perform better
• Why sharing via social might outperform traditional email referrals
• The hidden moment after a lead magnet download you should be capitalizing on
• A single click that triggers a referral follow-up (without any tech stack)
• The tiny line at the bottom of your email that can quietly drive growth
• A one-referral incentive so clever, readers feel compelled to share

LINKS MENTIONED 

• Get The Growth Vault — a vault of newsletter growth strategies with templates and real examples you can implement at your own pace.
• Tyler Cook (Email Deliverability)
• Dan Oshinsky's Growth Lever
• The ShareLinkGenerator (Dan Oshinsky's "mailto" tool of choice) 
• Aakash Gupta's GIR Interview
• Ali Abouelatta's GIR Deep Dive
• Shaan Puri's Viral Post Framework
• Ask us a question or submit a podcast topic idea: growthinreverse.com/questions
• Check out the 30 Days of Growth FREE >>
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.

“I waited to launch my paid newsletter until I had a solid strategy and felt like I’d earned it.”  — Tom Orbach, Marketing Ideas

Tom Orbach of MarketingIdeas.com — which recently crossed 44,000 free subscribers and over 500 paid subscribers in just the first few days after launching his paid tier — joins Chenell & Dylan to share the exact playbook he used to grow his newsletter and launch the paid version. He became a Substack bestseller within a day of his paid launch! And he did this all while working a full-time job.

You'll learn how he engineered a wildly successful Product Hunt launch, and why he delayed monetization for nearly two years. We also dive into the tools he uses, the psychology behind his launch strategy, and how Substack's built-in network helped supercharge his growth after turning on his paid tier. Whether you're at 500 subscribers or 50,000, this episode is a tactical goldmine.

PS - Tom is not only smart marketer & newsletter creator, he's also a member of the GIR Pro community 🔥

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Tom shares how he started the newsletter and bought the domain marketingideas.com after selling a viral tool.
• He explains why he invested in a ".com" domain instead of going with a cheaper option
• What publishing his first newsletter edition to a waitlist of 1,000+ felt like—and why publishing early and often matters.
• Balancing a full-time job with weekly publishing.
• How his job fuels his content.
• His top growth levers (including one that helped him gain over 7,000 subscribers).
• Why he waited nearly two years to launch a paid tier.
• How he designed the offer to feel premium and "non-calculable."
• Behind the scenes of Tom’s nine-day email launch strategy that brought in 500+ paid subscribers.
• How Tom reinvests revenue into experiments, gear, and ads to continue scaling.
• The emotional pressure of going paid—and how he maintains quality content and subscriber trust.
• Building community and micro-launches as the next phase of his newsletter growth.

LINKS MENTIONED

• MarketingIdeas.com
• Tom on LinkedIn
• Ask us a question or submit a podcast topic idea: growthinreverse.com/questions
• Check out the 30 Days of Growth FREE >>
• Get Chenell's brand-new course: The Growth Vault — newsletter templates, growth strategies, and real examples you can implement at your own pace.
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.

“$250k is when growth changes. It’s when you need systems. You usually can’t do it solo.”  — Matt Gira, The Quarter

Matt Gira joins Chenell & Dylan — in person — to share how he went from building underwater drones to launching The Quarter: a newsletter that deep dives into how founders grow bootstrapped businesses to $250K. This is an interview, but also an impromptu coaching session with Matt as we help him figure out how he can grow his newsletter faster and get it in front of the right audience.

We talk content strategy, growth experiments, and the surprising data he's uncovering along the way.

PS - Matt is not only an up-and-coming newsletter creator, he's also a member of the GIR Pro community 🔥

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Why $250k is the key milestone for bootstrapped founders
• How Matt turned a niche data set into a powerful newsletter growth lever
• How he grew his newsletter to 1,200+ subscribers without chasing virality
• Collaborations, events, and the tour that could 10x his reach
• The power of being early, scrappy, and generous in your creator journey
• How Matt reverse engineers founder journeys from YouTube to written content
• The role of YouTube, LinkedIn, and in-person meetups in his growth flywheel
• Strategies he’s testing now: content swaps, data licensing, services

LINKS MENTIONED

• The Quarter (Matt's newsletter)
• The Bootstrapped Report
• Matt on LinkedIn
• Kit's Craft + Commerce conference
• Chenell's Deep Dive on CJ Gustafson of Mostly Metrics
• Ask us a question or submit a podcast topic idea: growthinreverse.com/questions
• Check out the 30 Days of Growth FREE >>
• 30 Days of Growth Course Pre-launch
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.

“I love unsubscribes. Don’t be here if you don’t want to be here.”

It is insanely easy to subscribe to a newsletter—and even MULTIPLE newsletters all at once.

But is that a good thing? Should newsletter creators be more choosy when determining who signs up? We're diving into one of the most overlooked and under-discussed aspects of newsletter growth: friction.

Specifically, how adding friction—rather than eliminating it—can actually improve subscriber quality, open rates, and monetization.

This one’s a must-listen if you’re growing via referrals, recommendations, or paid ads—or if you’re cleaning your list and still not seeing better open rates.

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Why the "low friction" mindset can lead to worse subscribers
• What happened when Chenell got aggressive about cleaning her list
• Backend vs. frontend friction: which is better and when
• Building a false double opt-in to retain more good subscribers
• Why double opt-in purgatory can kill 20–40% of your growth
• How paid ads can inflate list size but tank your quality
• Form fields, first names, and checkbox tactics that work
• The danger of creating “unsubscribe friction” (and why you shouldn’t use it)
• What Dylan includes in every single broadcast to improve list health
• Creative ideas like gated quizzes, segmenting checkboxes, and engagement-driven welcomes

LINKS MENTIONED

• Workweek
• beehiiv Creator Network
• Kit Creator Network
• Chris Hutchins → AllTheHacks.com
• Ask us a question or submit a podcast topic idea: growthinreverse.com/questions
• Check out the 30 Days of Growth FREE >>
• 30 Days of Growth Course Pre-launch
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.

“The real value wasn’t in the keynotes—it was the dinners, the hikes, the casual connections.” – Dylan Redekop, first-time C+C attendee

Dylan and Chenell reflect on their time at Kit's Craft + Commerce email newsletter conference for creators in Boise.
 
But this episode isn’t just a recap — it’s a deep dive into what made the conference unforgettable: the people, the ideas, and the big shifts in how creators are building authentic businesses. From mastermind dinners with Pat Flynn to keynote takeaways on AI, content strategy, public speaking, and creator community, they unpack what creators should actually focus on in 2025.

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• The irreplaceable power of in-person connection
• The difference between “insanely valuable” vs “insanely frequent” content
• Why mastermind-style events create outsized ROI
• How to use AI without burning out
• The importance of crafting your personal “what do you do” intro
• Creator identity and the fight with impostor syndrome
• Content strategy lessons from Sam Vander Wielen and Amanda Goetz
• Pat Flynn’s “lean learning” growth loop from 0 to millions of YouTube subs
• How to run better meetups and create serendipitous opportunities
• What Craft & Commerce nailed — and why you might want to go next year

LINKS MENTIONED

• Kit's Craft + Commerce creator conference
• Pat Flynn's Deep Pocket Monster YT Channel
• Sam Vander Wielen's website
• Amanda Goetz's website
• Ultraspeaking (Tristan de Montebello & Michael Gendler)
• Ask us a question or submit a podcast topic idea: growthinreverse.com/questions
• Check out the 30 Days of Growth FREE >>
• 30 Days of Growth Course Pre-launch
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.

"Every time I try to be an expert, I lose readers. When I’m just me, they stick around." – Jesse J. Anderson, Extra Focus newsletter

For the first time ever, Chenell & Dylan have recorded LIVE, in-person podcast episodes!  

Coming at you in-person from Kit Studios in Boise ID, Chenell & Dylan connect with Jesse J. Anderson—better known online as ADHD Jesse—to uncover the evolution of his successful newsletter, Extra Focus. 

Jesse's grown Extra Focus to over 70,000 subscribers and a combined social following in the hundreds of thousands. Jesse shares the real, raw, and often hilarious truth about building a brand and business around ADHD while balancing a full-time job and raising three kids.

We talk through the early days of posting atomic essays in Ship 30 For 30, stumbling into virality, learning what content resonated (and what didn’t), and how he’s navigated massive growth across platforms like Substack, Instagram, and YouTube. 

Whether you're managing life with ADHD or not our chat with Jesse is full of valuable insight into newsletter growth, business, and some brutal honesty.

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Jesse’s unexpected entry into content creation through Ship 30 for 30
• The signal pointing him towards doubling down on ADHD content
• How he built a massive newsletter while working full-time and raising a family
• Lessons learned from running paid newsletters, courses, and planning a thriving ADHD community
• What led to his viral Instagram and Twitter growth, and Jesse's simple content repurposing strategy
• The emotional rollercoaster of getting laid off and turning that moment into a creative breakthrough
• Why authenticity matters now more than ever in a post-AI content world

LINKS MENTIONED

• Ask us a question or submit a podcast topic idea: growthinreverse.com/questions
• Jesse’s Newsletter: ExtraFocus.com
• Jesse on: Instagram | Twitter | Bluesky
• Ship30For30.com (←affiliate link)
• Recorded in Kit Studios, Boise ID
• Check out the 30 Days of Growth FREE >>
• 30 Days of Growth Course Pre-launch
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.

"Podcasting isn’t a shortcut to growth—but it’s a hell of a way to deepen relationships." – Chenell Basilio

What can happen when you commit to a weekly podcast for six straight months? 

You're about to find out. Chenell & Dylan pull back the curtain on the Growth In Reverse podcast—sharing the behind-the-scenes of what’s worked, what hasn’t, and what we’ve learned along the way.

We get real about the numbers: subscribers, downloads, YouTube stats, and more. Plus, we chat through the very real question—should newsletter writers even start a podcast? You’ll hear our honest take on the ROI (or lack thereof), and the surprising benefits that go beyond metrics.

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Reflecting on 6 months of consistent podcasting and what kept us going
• Why podcasting isn’t a fast-track to newsletter growth—and what it is great for
• The powerful trust-building impact of being in your audience’s ears
• Our top-performing content and what formats resonated most
• How YouTube fits into our podcast strategy and where Shorts fell flat
• Lessons from other creators like Jay Clouse, Lenny Rachitsky, and Aakash Gupta
• Easy ways for newsletter creators to test podcasting without going "all in"

LINKS MENTIONED

• Ask us a question or submit a topic idea: growthinreverse.com/questions
• The Pour Over podcast (on Spotify)
• Riverside.fm
• Matt Giovanisci (MoneyLab)
• Jay Clouse's YT Channel
• Lenny Reaches 1M Subscribers (past GIR episode)
• Lenny Podcast (YT Channel) 
• Check out the 30 Days of Growth FREE >>
• 30 Days of Growth Course Pre-launch
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.

“You can pretty much do anything on Substack—which is good and also makes me nervous.” – Chenell Basilio

We've seen a wave of creators flocking to Substack over the last month and couldn’t help but wonder... what’s really going on here?

In this episode, Chenell & Dylan unpack the why we believe this migration is happening. Are creators just chasing the next shiny thing, or is Substack genuinely offering something new and powerful?

We dive into the benefits, red flags, and the not-so-obvious consequences of going all in on the platform. We cover how Substack is evolving from a newsletter tool into a full-blown creator ecosystem, and whether that’s a blessing or curse—or a bit of both? If you've been thinking about launching (or leaving) a Substack, this episode is your guide to making an informed decision—minus the hype.

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Why big-name creators like Justin Welsh, Dan Koe, and Jay Clouse are experimenting with paid Substack newsletters
• Substack’s Creator Fund and how it might be influencing the migration
• What makes Substack’s all-in-one platform appealing—and the tradeoffs you make using it
• Our concerns about data control, platform dependency, and reach
• How recommendations and native distribution can supercharge growth (but also create subscriber quality issues)
• Whether Substack’s 10% revenue cut is worth it for smaller vs. larger creators
• Substack’s limitations when it comes to API access, segmentation, automation, and list hygiene
• How we personally use Substack (or don’t), and what we’d do differently if we started newsletters there today

LINKS MENTIONED

• Chenell on Substack
• Dylan on Substack
• Substack's Creator Fund announcement
• Check out the 30 Days of Growth FREE >>
• 30 Days of Growth Course Pre-launch
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.

"I thought this would grow my list. It did—but the real win was something else entirely." — Chenell Basilio on her 30 Days of Growth experiment.

In this special episode of Growth In Reverse, Chenell & Dylan break down the whirlwind that was Chenell's 30 Days of Growth experiment. 

What started as a simple idea to improve my cross-promotions quickly snowballed into a full-fledged daily popup newsletter, complete with giveaways, podcast episodes, and a ton of valuable insights.

We dive into the gritty details—from the unexpected chaos of daily publishing and coordinating with 30 creators to the strategic plays that made the campaign a success. I also share the raw numbers, what I’d do differently, and how this experience has reshaped my approach to newsletter growth and content creation.

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Why Chenell launched a 30-day pop-up newsletter to improve cross-promotion tactics—and how she pulled it off in just two weeks
• The exact structure and format she used to keep each daily edition short, tactical, and engaging
• The referral system that brought in 20% of new subscribers and why the private podcast feed became a surprisingly powerful incentive
• What worked and didn’t work with cross-promotion strategies, Substack distribution, and leveraging LinkedIn newsletters
• How Chenell handled massive reader engagement, including 200+ thoughtful replies to a single welcome email
• Lessons learned about launching under pressure, collaborating with other creators, and building a flywheel from content
• The future of the 30 Days of Growth content—and how others can repurpose similar efforts for their own growth campaigns

LINKS MENTIONED

• Check out the 30 Days of Growth FREE >>
• 30 Days of Growth Course Pre-launch
• Tools mentioned: Senja, Tella, Viral Loops RightMessage (via Brennan Dunn)
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.

Get 30 proven newsletter strategies to grow and optimize your email list FREE >>

"There is a strong, undeniable correlation between the number of emails you send and the amount of money you make." — Olly Richards

In this episode, Chenell & Dylan chat with Olly Richards — the founder of Storylearning.com and now a fast-growing personal brand — about exactly how he grew his personal brand from $0 and 0 audience to $1.2m and over 18,000 subscribers in 18 months. 

From his early days as a broke jazz musician to building a multi-million dollar language learning business, Olly walks us through the evolution of his business brain, the intentional pivot into mentorship, and the role of his newsletter in scaling it all.

We go deep into his email strategy, the content philosophies behind his newsletter, and how he leveraged high-leverage, low-effort marketing techniques to build a loyal audience — and then turn that audience into over $1.2m in revenue. If you’re building a business around your newsletter or thinking about launching a premium offer, you’ll want to hear how Olly layered mentorship, digital products, and events to create a flywheel that fuels itself.

→ Take your newsletter to the next level with GIR Pro >>

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Olly’s transformation from language teacher to seven-figure business mentor
• The origin and impact of his now-famous 118-page Google Doc
• How that doc helped him attract 18,000 subscribers and generate $1.2M+
• Why brand is the ultimate “cheat code” in an AI-driven world
• His email newsletter philosophy — from long-form essays to raw, daily thoughts
• The tools and cadence he uses to stay consistent (and inspired)
• How he structures mentorship, masterminds, and digital products into a scalable business
• The 60/20/20 revenue breakdown that funds his growth flywheel
• Why most creators are missing the fundamentals of internet marketing
• The one skill Olly believes every creator must learn to build a sustainable business

LINKS MENTIONED

• Get 30 proven strategies to grow and optimize your email list FREE >>
• OllyRichards.co
• Olly's Newsletter
• Olly's 118-page Case Study (Google Doc)
• Olly's Courses (incl. 7 Figure Marketing Stack)
• Chenell's Growth Lever featuring Olly 
• StoryLearning.com
• Want your newsletter roasted? Submit it here. 
• Growth In Reverse PRO Community
• Check out past Growth In Reverse Deep Dives: https://growthinreverse.com/archive/

FOLLOW ON SOCIAL

• Chenell: Twitter | LinkedIn | Bluesky
• Dylan: LinkedIn | Bluesky

OUR NEWSLETTERS

• growthinreverse.com
• growthcurrency.net

Subscribe & Leave a Review:

If you found this episode valuable, take a second to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! It helps more newsletter creators find the show. Plus, if you submit a review, you’ll get priority for your own newsletter roast!

Thanks to Tim Forkin for editing these episodes.