Katie is terrified of dying. As the youngest in a big family, she can’t stop thinking about the fact that all her loved ones may die before she does. Katie is a comedy writer who knows how to get laughs, but her obsession with death is real, and getting in the way of living. In this episode of How To!, we bring on Rachel Menzies, a psychologist and researcher at the University of Sydney and author of Tales from the Valley of Death, to share what she’s learned about death anxiety. Exposure therapy is often the most effective way to overcome your fears, but how do you expose yourself to death? Rachel has some unusual ideas for Katie—and all of us—to take control of these intrusive thoughts, starting with lying in a body bag. Focusing deliberately on death, Rachel says, can actually help us appreciate life.

If you liked this episode, check out “How To Not Be Scared.”

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