IndoctriNation

Lisa got out of a small, suburban, new age, therapy-based group in 2016, which she had joined as a 19-year-old, single mother. This high-demand group went through many phases over the 30 years she was involved. The charismatic, narcissistic leader utilized modalities such as rebirthing, affirmations, hot seat talk therapy, sleep deprivation, as well as verbal, physical, and sexual abuse as a means to control. These techniques combined with intervals of positive reinforcement held her captive in a sealed system where all efforts towards personal success were directed to benefit the leader. Creative endeavors were quashed if it meant confidence and self-esteem were to be gained. In 2015, there were enough cracks that Lisa realized that she could never become the person she joined the group to be if she stayed.

Since Lisa got out, she married the man who helped her find her way back to herself and out of the group. Lisa is passionate about supporting other cult survivors to find their own voices and share their own stories…and for those voices and stories to be heard, acknowledged, and understood.

Lisa shares her experiences of being in an abusive high control group for decades, she explains what it was like joining as a single teenage mother and examines the differences between being raised in a cult vs joining one as an adult. Lisa then examines what led to her finally leaving the group and what triggered her passion for supporting cult survivors once she left. She continues the conversation by talking about #igotout the movement she founded to bring survivor's stories to the public.

Before You Go: Rachel provides her professional insights on what an unhealthy therapeutic experience looks like, and how to keep yourself safe from a potentially harmful situation. To hear Rachel dive deeper into this topic, you can watch her video here:

https://youtu.be/EEBo_Z2VTqE

For more information on Lisa's #igotout movement please visit:

https://www.igotout.org/

Thanks to Maura Campbell-Balkits for increasing their monthly pledge on Patreon!!

You can always help support us for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

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Christopher Buckley of LaFayette, GA is an Afghanistan and Iraqi war veteran. When he returned from Iraq, he joined the Georgia White Knights as an Imperial Nighthawk, because their anti-Muslim and racist values were consistent with his worldview after returning from war. Arno Michaelis, a former white power skinhead, and Dr. Heval Mohamed Kelli, a Kurdish Muslim refugee, were able to teach Chris the error of his ways and helped bring him out of the movement. Today, he volunteers at The Haven in Georgia, a local organization that helps homeless and drug addicts. He also gives motivational speeches, trying to spread awareness and educate the public about the dangers of white supremacist extremism. Chris now works with Dr. Kelli on a program called Help, Heal, Love; where they work to repair flawed thinking in hate groups and spread a message of love and healing. He also created a deradicalization program designed specifically with veterans in mind but is geared to work with all manners of hate and extremist ideology.

Melissa Buckley is Christopher Buckley’s wife and a key person in helping her husband leave the Ku Klux Klan. She realized that the KKK was damaging to Chris and their children and wanted a healthier path for the well-being of her entire family. She searched online to try and find someone to help her get Chris out of the KKK and found Arno Michaelis, a former white power skinhead, and Parents for Peace advisory board member. Over a several-month period, Melissa worked with Arno to help pull Chris out of the dangerous extremism he had become involved with. Thanks to the support of Melissa and Arno, Chris is now an inspirational model that spreads awareness about the dangers of white supremacist extremism and teaches others how to help their family members who have become involved with extremism.

In this follow-up episode, Chris and Melissa share the details of the intense emotional journey that deradicalization brought to their relationship. Melissa explains how she went about planning the intervention that eventually led to Chris getting sober and leaving the KKK. Together they tell the story of how their love for each other gave them the strength to not only deradicalize Chris but completely transform his life for the better, of not just him and his family, but also for others who have loved ones involved with extremism.

Before You Go: Rachel examines the strength and resilience that Melissa showed in planning and executing Chris's rescue from hateful ideology.

For More Info on Parents for Peace, visit:

www.parents4peace.org/

If you are worried about extremism, you can call their helpline at 1-844-49-PEACE

For more info on Arno Michaelis visit:

https://www.theforgivenessproject.com/stories/arno-michaels/

Thanks to our newest Patrons: Big Easy Blasphemy, Chris Campbell-Garcia, and Kendy Maher!!

You can always help support us for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

As an independent producer, reporter, and sound designer, Jonathan Hirsch has produced hundreds of long-form audio works for NPR, Vox, NBC, Fusion Media Group, and many others. He is a recipient of the Green Eyeshade, Edward R. Murrow, and DuPont Awards. His 7-part documentary podcast series Dear Franklin Jones debuted #1 on the iTunes podcast charts. In April of 2018, Jonathan launched Neon Hum Media, an LA-based podcast production company, specializing in narrative-driven, high production value, “audio first” documentaries, talk shows, and partner content.

Jonathan talks about the insights he gained from researching the spiritual teacher Dr. Fredrick Lenz III for his new audio documentary podcast series I Am Rama. Jonathan shares with Rachel the story behind his fascination with Lenz, also known as Rama, which begins with his parents meeting at a spiritual convention organized by Rama. By the time Jonathan was born, his parents had changed paths and became devotees of another controversial spiritual leader, Adi Da, joining his new religious group Adidam which Jonathan was born into and raised in.

Before You Go: Rachel explains why victims of cults or high control relationships often go from one bad situation to the next and what measures you can take to stop the cycle of abuse and protect yourself from manipulation.

Listen to Jonathan's podcast Smoke Screen: I Am Rama here:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/smoke-screen-i-am-rama/id1525807626

Thanks to our newest Patron Sarah Mayberry!!

You can always help support us for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Amanda Montell is a writer, language scholar, and podcast host from Baltimore. She is the author of Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism, about the language of "cults" from Scientology to SoulCycle.

As a reporter and essayist, Amanda's writing has been featured in Marie Claire, Glamour, Cosmopolitan, Nylon, Bustle, The Rumpus, Byrdie, and Who What Wear, where she formerly served as the Features & Beauty Editor. She holds a degree in linguistics from NYU and lives in Los Angeles with her partner, plants, and pets. Find her on Instagram @amanda_montell

Amanda explains to Rachel her experience growing up with her father, who was raised in the cultic group Synanon, an alternative community centered on group truth-telling sessions that came to be known as the "Synanon Game" a form of attack therapy. She explains how from a young age her father's story informed her skepticism of the language of high control environments. She also shares some of the insights she gained about cultic language while interviewing sources for her book. Throughout the conversation, Rachel emphasizes the important role language plays in the manipulation of victims of high control groups of all kinds.

Before You Go: Rachel elaborates on the idea of "Thought terminating cliches" and the dangers it can pose in the context of high control groups.

Thanks to our newest Patrons: Isabel, Duncan, and Stephany Zamora!!

You can always help support us for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

CW: Sexual violence against children

Christopher Buckley of LaFayette, GA is an Afghanistan and Iraqi war veteran. When he returned from Iraq, he joined the Georgia White Knights as an Imperial Nighthawk, because their anti-Muslim and racist values were consistent with his worldview after returning from war. Arno Michaelis, a former white power skinhead, and Dr. Heval Mohamed Kelli, a Kurdish Muslim refugee, were able to teach Chris the error of his ways and helped bring him out of the movement. Today, he volunteers at The Haven in Georgia, a local organization that helps homeless and drug addicts. He also gives motivational speeches, trying to spread awareness and educate the public about the dangers of white supremacist extremism. Chris now works with Dr. Kelli on a program called Help, Heal, Love; where they work to repair flawed thinking in hate groups and spread a message of love and healing. He also created a deradicalization program designed specifically with veterans in mind but is geared to work with all manners of hate and extremist ideology.

Chris shares with Rachel his intense and traumatic personal story, identifying key moments in his upbringing that ultimately led him down a dark and destructive path of addiction, racism, and violence. Together, he and Rachel examine the "cognitive bias" and as Chris explains the "cognitive openings" that can be a catalyst both into and out of extreme belief systems. In the second half of their conversation, Chris talks about his journey towards healing through sobriety and deradicalization. He also tells us about the life-saving redemption initiated by his wife that led to him working with Arno Michaelis and Parents for Peace and the meaning he has found in helping others overcome their extremist ideologies.

Before You Go: Rachel examines the vulnerabilities and sequence of events that can lead to indoctrination and radicalization, and how behaviors commonly seen in addiction are mirrored in extremist ideology

For More Info on Parents for Peace, visit:

https://www.parents4peace.org/

If you are worried about extremism, you can call their helpline at 1-844-49-PEACE

For more info on Arno Michaelis visit:

https://www.theforgivenessproject.com/stories/arno-michaels/

Thanks to our newest Patrons: Sabine Breiholz, Renee M Williams, Nicholas Herrera, and Felicity Kusinitz!!

You can always help support us for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This week's guest is a fourth-generation Christian Scientist. Lauren Hunter is a freelance writer, consultant, and entrepreneur. She is the author of "Leaving Christian Science, 10 Stories of New Faith in Jesus Christ". Lauren shares with Rachel her story of leaving the church and describes the religious trauma that followed. Lauren also talks about her work with The Fellowship of Former Christian Scientists, along the way, she provides some insightful and concise background on the history of Christian Science and its founder Mary Baker Eddy.

Before You Go: Rachel explains the concept of spiritually advised neglect and the damage it can do both physically and mentally.

You can learn more about Lauren and find her book here:

https://www.laurenhunter.net/

Learn more about The Fellowship of Former Christian Scientists here:

https://ffcsministry.org/

Thanks to our newest Patrons: Maura Campbell-Balkits and LeAnneRobinson!!

You can always help support us for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Elli was raised a third-generation Christian Scientist in Southern California. She left the religion in her late teens and discovered it was a cult in her mid-twenties. Her journey of over 10 years has been undoing the restrictive thinking and false beliefs imprinted since birth and finding out who she is underneath it all. In this conclusion of a three-episode series, Elli shares with Rachel her continued struggle of learning how to process and even recognize emotion in herself and others after leaving the church. She describes the deep and lasting impact being raised to deny the existence of her own emotions has had on her as an adult.

Before You Go: Rachel addresses the importance of striving to, as Elii said "become yourself", after leaving a high control group. She also provides insight on how to overcome the fear that often accompanies meeting yourself for the first time.

Thanks to our newest Patron, Thomas La Cour!

You can always help the show for free by leaving us a review on Apple/ iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Elli was raised a third-generation Christian Scientist in Southern California. She left the religion in her late teens and discovered it was a cult in her mid-twenties. Her journey of over 10 years has been undoing the restrictive thinking and false beliefs imprinted since birth and finding out who she is underneath it all. In this second part of a three-episode series, Elli continues sharing her story with Rachel and details her experience of starting therapy after leaving the church. She explains the difficulties she had in simply recognizing her own emotions, after being taught from a young age to ignore all feelings and even bodily sensations.

Before You Go: Rachel addresses the importance of titles with regard to health professionals and the fraudulent use of them in Christian Science. She explains how this betrayal of trust can cause mistrust of healthcare workers that can be hard to unlearn.

Thanks to our newest Patron Jackey Good!!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

You can always help the show for free by leaving us a review on Apple/iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Elli was raised a third-generation Christian Scientist in Southern California. She left the religion in her late teens and discovered it was a cult in her mid-twenties. Her journey of over 10 years has been undoing the restrictive thinking and false beliefs imprinted since birth and finding out who she is underneath it all. In this first part of a three-episode series, Elli shares with Rachel her story of growing up in a restrictive household and church where she was denied access to any form of medicine or healthcare. Throughout the conversation, Elli provides insight into her uniquely sheltered perspective and explains the confusing and disorienting feelings she experienced while integrating into broader society for the first time.

Before You Go: Rachel addresses Elli's feelings of confusion surrounding a lack of basic medical language and how it can prevent the solution-oriented thinking that would usually lead to treatment from a doctor.

Thanks to our newest Patrons: Caroline Hinton, Dolan, Felicia Baucom, and Heather Silsbee!!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

You can always help the show for free by leaving us a review on Apple/iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Rachel and Erin Alder are a married couple from Seattle. Shortly after they met they became entangled in a situation within AA where their vulnerabilities were being used to control their behavior by a controlling sponsor. In Rachel's case, the vulnerability that was exploited was undiagnosed mental illness, specifically Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. While Erin’s biggest vulnerability became whether the marriage was dependent on continued work with this manipulative group leader. Eventually, Rachel and Erin were able to break free from the exploitation of the invasive sponsor and her high-demand group. They share with Rachel the details of how they were pulled into this controlling situation and describe the fears that kept them there for 7 years.

In our third and final episode with Rachel and Erin, they conclude the story of their experiences in a high control AA group. They discuss the difficulties of leaving the group and the after-effects they felt once they finally left it behind.

Before You Go: Rachel emphasizes the importance of taking breaks from high control groups. She explains how it gives your mind a chance to reset and gain a new perspective.

Thanks to our newest Patrons: Elizabeth Kirkpatrick, Sherry Agee, Gina Claborn and, Connie Scum!!

To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit:

www.patreon.com/indoctrination

Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! http://www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION

You can always help the show for free by leaving us a review on Apple/iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show!

To read more of Rachel's thoughts on AA check out this article in Filter Magazine:

https://filtermag.org/deprogramming-from-aa-when-a-fellowship-resembles-a-cult/

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands