In this episode of Perfect Prey, I’m honored to be joined by Judith Herman, one of the world’s foremost pioneers in trauma research and recovery.

Dr. Herman is the author of the groundbreaking books Father-Daughter Incest, Trauma and Recovery, and Truth and Repair—works that fundamentally changed how we understand trauma, complex trauma, institutional betrayal, and survivor healing.

Together, we discuss the origins of trauma theory, the women’s movement that brought survivor voices into public consciousness, the devastating lifelong impact of childhood abuse and coercive control, and why children living in unsafe family systems are so deeply affected—even when the abuse is not overtly physical.

We also explore the ACEs study, attachment, institutional failures, protective parenting, intergenerational trauma, and the critical role of safe relationships in healing.

This is an essential conversation for survivors, clinicians, advocates, educators, attorneys, judges, and anyone seeking a deeper understanding of trauma and recovery.

What we cover

• The origins of trauma and complex trauma theory

• How the women’s movement changed the understanding of abuse

• Dr. Herman’s groundbreaking work on incest and child sexual abuse

• The lifelong mental and physical health impacts of childhood trauma

• The ACEs study and adverse childhood experiences

• Coercive control, family violence, and child development

• Isolation as a tactic of abuse and coercive control

• Why children exposed to family violence are profoundly harmed

• Protective factors that help children heal from trauma

• Attachment, belonging, and the importance of safe relationships

• Institutional betrayal and why survivors must be heard

• Protective parenting and rebuilding connection with children

Why listen

If you are a survivor, protective parent, clinician, advocate, educator, researcher, or legal professional, this episode offers foundational insight into trauma, coercive control, attachment, and recovery.

Dr. Herman’s work helped shape the modern understanding of trauma and continues to guide how we think about healing, institutional accountability, and the long-term impact of childhood abuse.

Guest bio (short)

Judith Herman, MD, is a psychiatrist, researcher, professor, and internationally recognized pioneer in the study of psychological trauma. She is the author of Father-Daughter Incest, Trauma and Recovery, and Truth and Repair, groundbreaking works that transformed the understanding of trauma, complex PTSD, and survivor recovery.

About Dr. Judith Lewis Herman

• Guilford Press: https://www.guilford.com/author/Judith-Lewis-Herman?srsltid=AfmBOopF18dr2S7Z0VoukbbZiSSvNFY7XqwmoLAmoT2OykKgsoR2T4fY

• Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Lewis_Herman

• Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/judith-l-herman-md

Connect with Dr. Christine:

Protective Parenting Program: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/

Official site: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videos

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrol

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/

TEDxTalks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp2qByKOue4&t=24s

Books: https://url-shortener.me/c/FramedBook

https://url-shortener.me/c/EveryMomentOfEveryDay

If this episode landed for you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it, subscribe for more trauma-informed conversations, and consider leaving a review — it helps other survivors find validation and safety.

🩵

— Dr. Christine Cocchiola & guest Dr. Judith Herman

Description

In this episode of Perfect Prey, I’m joined by Ali Kessler, founder of Greyson’s Choice, child safety advocate, and a powerful voice for prevention, awareness, and systemic change.

Ali shares her deeply personal story of loss, resilience, and purpose—and how unimaginable grief became a mission to protect other children. Through Greyson’s Choice, Ali has transformed pain into advocacy, using her son Greyson’s legacy to create education, awareness, and meaningful change for families everywhere.

This conversation is both heartbreaking and inspiring, highlighting what it means to carry love forward through action, courage, and protection.

What we cover

• The story behind Greyson’s Choice

• Honoring Greyson’s legacy through advocacy

• Turning grief into purpose and prevention

• Why child safety awareness matters

• Systemic gaps that leave children vulnerable

• Supporting families after trauma and loss

• Creating change through courage and community

Why listen

If you are a parent, survivor, advocate, clinician, or someone navigating grief after trauma, this episode offers compassion, courage, and hope.

Ali’s story is a reminder that even after devastating loss, love can still become action—and protection for others.

Guest bio (short)

Ali Kessler is the founder of Greyson’s Choice, a child safety advocacy organization created in honor of her son, Greyson. Through education, awareness, and reform efforts, she works to protect children, support families, and create lasting change in Greyson’s memory.

Connect with Ali Kessler:

Website: https://greysonschoice.org

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/greysonschoice/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GreysonsChoice

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/greysons-choice/posts/?feedView=all

YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjQd87p3UbsHmUWxVkxJlUw

Connect with Dr. Christine Cocchiola:

Protective Parenting Program: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/

Official site: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videos

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrol

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/

TEDxTalks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp2qByKOue4&t=24s

Books:https://url-shortener.me/c/FramedBook

https://url-shortener.me/c/EveryMomentOfEveryDay

If this episode landed for you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it, subscribe for more trauma-informed conversations, and consider leaving a review — it helps other survivors find validation and safety.

🩵

— Dr. Christine Cocchiola & guest Ali Kessler

Description

In this episode of Perfect Prey, I’m joined by Emma Katz, criminologist and author of Coercive Control in Children’s and Mothers’ Lives. Emma is one of the leading researchers in the world examining how coercive control impacts children—not just as witnesses, but as direct victims navigating survival, attachment, and identity.

Together, we explore how children experience coercive control in deeply complex ways, how abusers strategically target the mother-child bond, and why so many systems continue to misunderstand—or completely overlook—the perpetrator’s role.

This conversation offers both profound validation and hope, highlighting the resilience of children and the critical role of protective parents in healing and recovery.

What we cover

• Why children are not “witnesses” but direct victims of coercive control

• How perpetrators strategically target and damage the mother-child relationship

• The three ways children experience abusive fathers: dangerous, “admirable,” and omnipresent

• How manipulation, intermittent reinforcement, and fear shape children’s attachment

• Why children may align with the abusive parent—and why that is not a choice

• The psychological impact of coercive control on children’s identity, safety, and development

• The resilience of children and the power of attachment with a protective parent

• What recovery can look like for families after coercive control

Why listen

If you are a protective parent, survivor, clinician, or professional working with families, this episode offers essential insight into how coercive control shapes children’s experiences—and why traditional frameworks often get it wrong.

Emma’s research brings clarity to what many families are living through, while also offering hope: children can heal, attachment can be rebuilt, and protective parenting matters more than anything.

Guest bio (short)

Emma Katz is a criminologist, researcher, and author specializing in coercive control and its impact on women and children. She is the author of Coercive Control in Children’s and Mothers’ Lives and writes extensively about domestic abuse, family dynamics, and systemic responses. Her work has been instrumental in shifting the understanding of children as active victims of coercive control rather than passive witnesses.

Learn more about Dr. Emma Katz

Substack:

https://substack.com/@dremmakatz

Official Site:

https://dremmakatz.com/

Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/emmakatz_phd

LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-emma-katz-5b911865/

YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx1f7_MhfCmVufMQS0ZPRjQ

X(twitter):

https://x.com/DrEmmaKatzBook (Coercive Control in Children’s and Mothers’ Lives): 

https://www.amazon.com/Coercive-Control-Childrens-INTERPERSONAL-VIOLENCE/dp/0190922214/

Connect with Dr. Christine

LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-christine-marie-cocchiola-443a58204/

Protective Parenting Program:https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/

Official site:https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/

YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videos

TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrol

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/

TEDxTalk:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp2qByKOue4&t=24s

Books:https://url-shortener.me/c/FramedBookhttps://url-shortener.me/c/EveryMomentOfEveryDay

If this episode landed for you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it, subscribe for more trauma-informed conversations, and consider leaving a review — it helps other survivors find validation and safety.

🩵

— Dr. Christine Cocchiola & guest Emma Katz

Description

In this episode of Perfect Prey, I’m joined by Donna Palomba, founder of Jane Doe No More and survivor of a violent home invasion and sexual assault that led to years of institutional betrayal.

Donna shares her harrowing story—from surviving a brutal attack in her own home to being disbelieved, interrogated, and re-traumatized by the very system meant to protect her. What followed was a seven-year legal battle against law enforcement, uncovering systemic failures, bias, and the devastating impact of not believing victims.

This conversation explores not only the trauma of the assault itself, but the profound harm caused by institutional betrayal—and the strength it takes to fight back, seek justice, and create change.

What we cover

• Donna’s story of surviving a violent home invasion and sexual assault
• The immediate aftermath and failures in the investigative process
• Institutional betrayal and being treated as a suspect instead of a victim
• The long legal battle against law enforcement and systemic resistance
• The role of DNA evidence and delayed justice
• How perpetrators often live “double lives” and evade suspicion
• The impact of statute of limitations laws on survivors
• Donna’s advocacy work and the founding of Jane Doe No More
• Prevention, education, and empowering communities to protect others

Why listen

If you are a survivor, advocate, clinician, attorney, or protective parent, this episode offers a powerful and deeply emotional look at what happens when systems fail victims—and what it takes to hold those systems accountable. Donna’s story is both heartbreaking and hopeful, showing that even in the face of profound injustice, change is possible.

Guest bio (short)

Donna Palomba is the founder of Jane Doe No More, an organization dedicated to improving the way society responds to survivors of sexual crimes and advancing prevention education. After surviving a violent sexual assault and years of institutional betrayal, Donna became a leading advocate for victims’ rights, helping change laws and educate communities on safety, accountability, and survivor support.

Learn more about Donna Palomba & Jane Doe No More:

Website: ⁠https://janedoenomore.org/⁠Book (Jane Doe No More): ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Jane-Doe-No-More/dp/1642939709⁠Podcast (Jane Doe No More Podcast): ⁠https://janedoenomore.org/podcast/⁠

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/janedoenomore/⁠Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/janedoenomore⁠LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/jane-doe-no-more/⁠

Connect with Dr. Christine

Protective Parenting Program:⁠https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/⁠

Official site:⁠https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/⁠

YouTube:⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videos⁠

TikTok:⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrol⁠

Instagram:⁠https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/⁠

Books:⁠https://url-shortener.me/c/FramedBook⁠⁠https://url-shortener.me/c/EveryMomentOfEveryDay⁠

If this episode landed for you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it, subscribe for more trauma-informed conversations, and consider leaving a review — it helps other survivors find validation and safety.

— Dr. Christine Cocchiola & guest Donna Palomba

Description

In this episode of Perfect Prey, I’m joined by Dr. Elizabeth Dalgarno, founder and director of the SHERA Research Group and lecturer in public health at the University of Manchester. Dr. Dalgarno’s work focuses on the global harms caused by family court systems and the institutional abuse experienced by women and children navigating these legal processes.

Through SHERA’s groundbreaking research, Dr. Dalgarno and her international team have documented how family court engagement can produce profound health consequences for protective parents and children. Their studies reveal a disturbing pattern: when abuse is reported, mothers are frequently accused of “parental alienation,” their credibility is questioned, and the legal system often becomes an extension of the abuse rather than a source of protection.

Together, we explore how coercive control continues after separation, how courts can become tools of post-separation abuse, and why the health impacts of family court trauma are still largely ignored by institutions responsible for protecting families.

What we cover

• The mission and global research of the SHERA Research Group

• How family court systems create institutional betrayal for survivors

• The health consequences of family court trauma for women and children

• The “blueprint” pattern many protective parents experience after reporting abuse

• Why parental alienation frameworks often silence abuse disclosures

• The concept of malicious fracturing of attachment

• How coercive control continues through legal systems after separation

• Why systemic reform is necessary to protect children and survivors

  
  

Why listen

If you are a survivor, protective parent, clinician, researcher, attorney, or advocate, this episode offers crucial insight into how family court systems can perpetuate harm rather than stop it. Dr. Dalgarno’s research provides evidence-based documentation of what protective parents have been saying for decades—and highlights why systemic reform is urgently needed.

Guest bio (short)

Dr. Elizabeth Dalgarno is the founder and director of the SHERA Research Group, a global collective studying the health impacts of institutional abuse within family court systems. She is a lecturer in public health at the University of Manchester, where she teaches global women’s public health and health system challenges. Her research focuses on the intersection of coercive control, institutional harm, and the health consequences experienced by women and children navigating family courts worldwide.

Learn more about SHERA Research

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sherafamily_
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/sherafamily
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sherafamily
Substack: Still Not Safe – Dr. Dalgarno

Connect with Dr. Christine

Protective Parenting Program:
https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/

Official site:
https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videos

TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrol

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/

Books:
https://url-shortener.me/c/FramedBook
https://url-shortener.me/c/EveryMomentOfEveryDay

If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it, subscribe to Perfect Prey, and consider leaving a review. Your support helps other survivors and protective parents find validation and clarity.

— Dr. Christine Cocchiola & guest Dr. Elizabeth Dalgarno

Description

In this solo episode of Perfect Prey, I explore one of the most heartbreaking dynamics of coercive control: the weaponization of children.

Children rely on their parents for safety, stability, and unconditional love. But when a predatory parent is operating within the family system, attachment can become fractured.

Instead of growing up with secure connection, children are often indoctrinated into false narratives, exposed to subtle undermining, and pulled into loyalty binds they cannot cognitively or emotionally process.

I explain how coercive control is the underpinning of all forms of abuse — psychological, legal, financial, physical, and emotional — and how, when an abuser can no longer control their partner, they often shift to controlling through the child.

We’ll talk about:

• How attachment is formed — and how it can be fractured

• Why children may come home dysregulated, angry, or oppositional

• How subtle undermining and false narratives are planted

• The difference between alienation rhetoric and attachment fracture

• Why predatory parents rely on retaliation and loyalty conflicts

• How protective parents can create “roadblocks” to manipulation

• What it means to respond instead of react — even when you are traumatized

  
  

This episode is especially for protective parents navigating post-separation abuse and family court dynamics. The reality is painful: children are often placed in impossible positions, forced into emotional roles they should never have to carry.

But there are ways to respond differently.

If you are watching your child struggle, unravel, or lash out after time with the other parent, this episode will help you understand what may be happening beneath the surface — and how to stay grounded in your role as the secure base.

Protective parents are doing some of the hardest work there is. You are not alone.

Connect with Dr. Christine

Protective Parenting Program:
https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/

Official site:
https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videos

TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrol

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/

Books:
https://url-shortener.me/c/FramedBook
https://url-shortener.me/c/EveryMomentOfEveryDay

If this episode resonated, please share it with someone who needs this information, subscribe to Perfect Prey, and consider leaving a review. It helps other survivors and protective parents find validation and clarity.

— Dr. Christine Cocchiola

In this episode of Perfect Prey, I’m joined by Laura Richards, a criminal behavioral analyst, former New Scotland Yard specialist, and one of the leading global voices on coercive control. Laura has been instrumental in changing laws on stalking and coercive control in the UK and internationally, and her work has helped shape policy, legislation, and professional practice worldwide.

We explore why coercive control is not about isolated incidents, but a patterned strategy of domination, entrapment, and power imbalance. Laura explains why coercive control is best understood as a war of attrition, how patriarchy and misogyny shape institutional responses, and why women and children are so often disbelieved—even when the evidence is present.

This conversation examines how legal systems, family courts, and law enforcement frequently fail victims and survivors, particularly at the point of separation, when risk escalates most dramatically. We also discuss why coercive control must be criminalized, why gender matters in risk assessment, and how language itself can either obscure or reveal abuse.

What we cover

• What coercive control really is and why it’s a patterned form of abuse

• Why victims and survivors are often disbelieved by systems meant to protect them

• Coercive control as “murders and suicides in slow motion”

• The role of patriarchy, entitlement, and power imbalance in abuse

• Why separation is the most dangerous time for women and children

• How family courts can become a tool of post-separation abuse

• Why protecting children requires protecting the non-abusive parent

• The urgent need to criminalize coercive control globally

Why listen If you are a survivor, protective parent, clinician, attorney, advocate, or policymaker, this episode offers critical insight into how coercive control operates beneath the surface of relationships and systems. Laura Richards brings clarity to why abuse is so often minimized, misunderstood, or reframed—and what must change to prevent further harm.

Guest bio (short)Laura Richards is a criminal behavioral analyst, former New Scotland Yard specialist, and a leading international expert on coercive control, stalking, and violence against women. She helped create the DASH risk assessment model, founded the National Stalking Advocacy Service (Paladin), and played a central role in criminalizing coercive control in England and Wales. Laura is the author of Policing Domestic Violence and host of the Crime Analyst and Real Crime Profile podcasts.

Connect with Dr. Christine

Official site: https://www.thelaurarichards.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crimeanalyst?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

X (twitter): https://x.com/thecrimeanalyst

Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@crimeanalystpod

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCksfRSwfwFqUCjcxKYju6_Q

Books: https://www.thelaurarichards.com/resources/books

Connect with Dr. Christine

Protective Parenting Program: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/Official site: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videosTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrolInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp2qByKOue4&t=24s

Books:https://url-shortener.me/c/FramedBookhttps://url-shortener.me/c/EveryMomentOfEveryDay

If this episode resonated, please share it with someone who needs this information, subscribe to Perfect Prey, and consider leaving a review to help other survivors find validation and clarity.

— Dr. Christine Cocchiola & guest Laura Richards

In this episode of Perfect Prey, I’m joined by Andrew Carpenter, a solicitor and partner at Webster Lawyers in Australia, widely known for his work holding child sexual abuse perpetrators accountable and advocating for systemic reform.

Andrew and I have a frank, uncomfortable, and deeply necessary conversation about child sexual abuse, grooming, coercive control, and the institutional failures that continue to endanger children. We explore how child predators use the same grooming tactics as coercive controllers, how technology and AI have dramatically increased access to abuse material, and why legal systems—including family courts—so often fail to protect children and the parents trying to keep them safe.

This episode centers the reality that child sexual abuse is not rare, not accidental, and not a crime of opportunity—it is intentional, patterned, and enabled by silence, disbelief, and systemic blind spots.

What we cover

• How child sexual abuse perpetrators groom children, families, and institutions

• Why all child predators use coercive control and relational grooming tactics

• The disturbing accessibility of child abuse material online

• How technology, AI, and social media are being weaponized against children

• Why most abuse occurs within trusted relationships and family systems

• The failures of criminal courts and family courts to protect child victims

• Why lack of physical evidence does not mean abuse did not occur

• Warning signs, behavioral red flags, and changes parents should not ignore

• How shame, fear, and silence protect perpetrators—not children

• What meaningful prevention, accountability, and reform must address

Why listen

If you are a survivor, protective parent, clinician, attorney, educator, or advocate, this episode provides critical insight into how child sexual abuse actually operates—and why so many children are disbelieved, retraumatized, or returned to unsafe environments. Andrew’s work exposes how deeply embedded these harms are within systems that claim to protect children, and why uncomfortable conversations are essential to change.

Guest bio (short)

Andrew Carpenter is a solicitor and partner at Webster Lawyers in Australia, specializing in child sexual abuse litigation and survivor advocacy. He is widely recognized for challenging institutional failures, advocating for legal reform, and amplifying survivor voices in cases where children have been silenced or ignored. His work focuses on accountability, deterrence, and systemic change to better protect children.

Connect with Andrew Carpenter

Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/andrewcarpentersolicitor

Websters Lawyers:https://websterslawyers.com.au/lawyers/andrew-carpenter

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/andrewcarpentersolicitor?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-carpenter-041456123/

Connect with Dr. Christine

Protective Parenting Program:https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/

Official site:https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/

YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videos

TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrolIf this episode landed for you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it, subscribe for more trauma-informed conversations, and consider leaving a review- it helps other survivors and protective parents find validation and safety.

-Dr. Christine Cocchiola & guest Andrew Carpenter

In this episode of Perfect Prey, I’m joined by Tonia Bales, author of When You See It: How I Outsmarted and Outlasted Dirty John. Tonia shares her story as the first wife of the man later known to the world as “Dirty John”—long before the podcast, Netflix series, or public recognition of who he really was.

Tonia describes how coercive control, deception, and manipulation unfolded inside her marriage, how she began uncovering her husband’s double life, and how the legal and family court systems failed to protect her and her children. This conversation offers a powerful look at how predators hide in plain sight, how survivors are often DARVO’d when they speak up, and how children become collateral damage in abusive systems.

What we cover

• Life with Dirty John before the world knew his name
  

• How predators identify and target “perfect prey”
  

• Early warning signs, red flags, and deception hidden in plain sight
  

• DARVO tactics and false accusations used to silence victims
  

• Substance abuse, professional abuse of power, and systemic failure
  

• Family court, coercive control, and the weaponization of children
  

• Protective parenting, resilience, and healing after profound trauma
  

  
  

Why listen If you are a survivor, protective parent, clinician, attorney, or advocate, this episode offers critical insight into how coercive control operates long before abuse is publicly recognized. Tonia’s story underscores why survivors are not naïve or weak—and why systems must do better to protect those who speak up.

Guest bio (short) Tonia Bales is a survivor of coercive control and the author of When You See It: How I Outsmarted and Outlasted Dirty John. Her story sheds light on the early patterns of abuse used by predators and the long-term impact of coercive control on victims and children. Through her writing and advocacy, Tonia works to educate the public and professionals about how abuse hides in plain sight—and why survivors must be believed.

Book information When You See It: How I Outsmarted and Outlasted Dirty John Available for presale on Amazon and Barnes & Noble Release date: January 13

Connect Tonia Bales:

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/toniabales?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tonia.bales/

• Book Pre-order Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FCDDC6FL?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGnHUKUJZ66YW-ed61SGw-lrKgFG6dnBGrVNG3HKq8--EQOpUpk0p_RHBPIooU_aem_yzp5bcFQZ3qA-0ZB2cUsZQ

• Book Pre-order Barnes & Noble: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/when-you-see-it-tonia-bales/1147557107?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGnsCgCEudPLDgxvCiAhmFYxcmlITQgdX8Kg9N5ItIrcW5Doxah2aRfQpDKwmU_aem_nHP_j-GiGb8xTQFMQqQo4g

  
  

Connect with Dr. Christine:

• Protective Parenting Program: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/

• Official site: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/

• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videos

• Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrol

• IG: https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/

• TEDxTalks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp2qByKOue4&t=24s

• Books: https://url-shortener.me/c/FramedBook

• https://url-shortener.me/c/EveryMomentOfEveryDay

  
  

If this episode landed for you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it, subscribe for more trauma-informed conversations, and consider leaving a review — it helps other survivors find validation and safety.

— Dr. Christine Cocchiola & guest Tonia Bales

In this episode of Perfect Prey, I’m joined by David Challen, author of The Unthinkable, who shares his experience growing up as a child inside a coercively controlling family system. David offers a rare and powerful perspective on coercive control through the eyes of a child—long before there was language to describe abuse, and long before systems were willing to see it.

This conversation explores how coercive control creates an atmosphere of fear, vigilance, humiliation, and emotional captivity within families, even when there is no visible violence. David reflects on the early intuition that something was wrong, the “rot in the house” that others could not see, and how children normalize danger in order to survive. Together, we examine the intergenerational harm caused by coercive control and why children are not passive witnesses, but co-victims.

What we cover

• What coercive control looks and feels like through the eyes of a child

• How children sense danger, imbalance, and domination long before abuse is named

• The normalization of mockery, humiliation, fear, and emotional subservience within families

• Why coercive control is not “hidden abuse,” but a trajectory of escalating harm

• How long-term psychological domination strips autonomy, identity, and safety over time

• The concept of “systemic degradation” and how victims are worn down across years or decades

• Why victim retaliation is often misunderstood, mislabeled, and criminalized

• The long-term impact on adult child survivors and protective parents
  

Why listen

If you are a survivor, protective parent, adult child survivor, clinician, or legal professional, this episode offers critical insight into how coercive control operates inside families and why children are deeply affected—even when abuse is not outwardly visible. This conversation brings clarity to experiences that are often minimized, misunderstood, or dismissed, and highlights why coercive control must be recognized as the foundation of all abuse.

Guest bio (short)

David Challen is an author, speaker, and campaigner on domestic abuse and coercive control. He is the author of The Unthinkable, which tells the story of growing up in a coercively controlled household and the devastating impact of long-term psychological abuse on children and families. David is a prominent advocate for greater recognition of coercive control and has spoken widely about intergenerational harm, survivor justice, and systemic failure.

Connect David Challen:

• Instagram: https://l1nq.com/davidinstagram

• Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@davidchallen?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc

• Learn more about David: https://www.eida.org.uk/davids-story

• Website: https://l1nq.com/davidchallenwebsite

• The Unthinkable: https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/david-challen/the-unthinkable/9781914240263/

  
  

Connect with Dr. Christine:

• Protective Parenting Program: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/services/for-parents/

• Official site: https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/

• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@DrCocchiola-coercivecontrol/videos

• Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.c_coercivecontrol

• IG: https://www.instagram.com/dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol/

• TEDxTalks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp2qByKOue4&t=24s

• Books: https://url-shortener.me/c/FramedBook

• https://url-shortener.me/c/EveryMomentOfEveryDay

  
  

If this episode landed for you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it, subscribe for more trauma-informed conversations, and consider leaving a review — it helps other survivors find validation and safety.

— Dr. Christine Cocchiola & guest David Challen