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Jeff and TJ sit down with Enneagram teacher and Enneagram theorist Joey Schewee, author of the upcoming When Working Together Doesn’t Work: An Enneagram Guide to Productive Relationships with Coworkers.

Together they dig into mistyping: what it really means to know your type, why some numbers mistype more than others, and how gut, heart, and head play into landing on the right story about yourself.

Joey makes the case for paying far more attention to stress moves, stance, and reference point (and far less to tests, memes, and subtype hype), and the three explore why narrative teaching and “aha” moments matter more than any online quiz for finding your true type and using it for real growth.