Menu Talk

On this week’s podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discuss recent tasting adventures, starting with more of a smelling experience.

Bret was invited by Via Carota, a gem of an Italian restaurant in Greenwich Village, to try their new bottled cocktails. But the event was held at a perfume shop that crafted personal scents for the attendees while they sipped on espresso martinis, spritzes and white negronis. Bret left with samples of both bottled cocktails and his custom scent.

Pat visited Jones Wood Foundry, a British-style pub with an impressive draft beer selection. Between the Scotch eggs, Yorkshire pudding with blue cheese lemon dip, curried chicken pot pie and toffee pudding, she could have been in London rather than a few blocks from her Manhattan apartment. 

We shared an interview with Anthony Amoroso, the new VP of innovation and growth at Maggiano’s Little Italy. Amoroso has helmed the kitchen in several famous independents and Michelin-starred restaurants, and now welcomes this opportunity to return to his Italian-American roots and work with the chefs across Maggiano’s 50 locations. 

He talks about how he is elevating the dining experience with top-quality ingredients and presentations while retaining the menu’s well-loved favorites and Maggiano’s tradition. Amoroso also works closely with the beverage director and sommelier, and new cocktails and wine selections now complement the food. And he describes what’s next in terms of the Dallas-based chain’s menu, restaurant design and growth. 

On this week’s podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed Bret’s trip to the San Francisco Bay area, where he went for The Culinary Institute of America’s annual Worlds of Flavor conference in Napa. 

The theme this year was Borders, Migration, and the Evolution of Culinary Tradition, which Bret acknowledged was quite a mouthful, but basically it was a discussion of how cooks adjust their food based on what ingredients are available and what customs and traditions are around them, as well as their own life experiences. In short: It’s all fusion. Highlights included a demonstration of southern Italian spaghetti and tomato sauce made like it was risotto and accompanied by a lecture of how spaghetti and tomatoes got to Italy, and lentil fritters that combined the traditions of West Africa and East Africa.

Bret then spent the weekend in San Francisco, and a culinary highlight was a pastrami sandwich with horseradish and red pepper aïoli at Mario’s Bohemian Cigar Store Café in the North Beach neighborhood. 

Pat stayed in New York City and checked out a Cambodian restaurant called Bayon. It was her first time trying that particular cuisine and she found it lighter and more subtle than the cuisines of its neighbors, Vietnam and Thailand. She also had brunch at Sarabeth’s, a long-standing concept with four locations in New York City, where she enjoyed tasty popovers and mushrooms with eggs.

Then Bret shared an interview with Cheng Lin, chef and owner of Shota Omakase in the Brooklyn neighborhood of Williamsburg. The chef discussed the importance of rice in sushi and of cultivating regular customers.

On this week’s podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discuss a week’s worth of eating experiences, starting with a dine-around in Chicago.

The two editors were in Chicago for the last conference of the International Foodservice Editorial Council, familiarly known as IFEC, and the opening event featured a tasting tour of three restaurants in the city’s Fulton Market district. Chef-owner Joe Flamm of Rose Mary spoke about his popular Croatian-Italian restaurant while we chowed down Pork Ribs Pampanella with Calabrian Chile Agrodolce and walnut relish as well as Beef Cheek Gnocchi; at Publican Quality Meats we learned how to spatchcock a chicken while nibbling on Grilled Pork & Mango Brochettes, Porchetta Sandwiches and charcuterie; and at Leña Brava, we sampled Watermelon Aguachile and al pastor-marinated Watermelon Steak and sipped a watermelon cocktail and mocktail. 

While in Chicago, Pat also had dinner at Eataly, and was reminded of how this Italian retail emporium is also a worthy restaurant destination. She joined friends at Vino &, an in-store wine bar with a large menu featuring specialties like Tagliolini al Limone, Pollo alla Milanese and Grilled Branzino, all of which her table ordered along with a nice bottle of red wine. 

Bret continues to explore his Brooklyn neighborhood, where he discovered some Eastern European meat dumplings that he brought home for dinner. First, he tried them the traditional way, topped with sour cream, but then concocted an Asian-influenced “ranch dressing” with chili crisp and Chinese black vinegar that took the dumplings into another flavor dimension.

This week we share an interview with renowned chef and restaurateur Michael Mina, whose new cookbook, “My Egypt,” was just published. Subtitled “Cooking from My Roots,” the book relates Mina’s experiences of journeying back to Egypt—which he left at the age of two—to rediscover his family’s culinary legacy. The result is a book filled with stories, firsthand cooking experiences and a lifetime of recipes.

Mina operates more than 30 restaurants in the U.S., including the recently opened Orla in Santa Monica, California—his first to specialize in Egyptian-Mediterranean cuisine. Here he elevates the dishes he enjoyed eating around his mother’s table and shares the food he tasted and cooked in Egypt. Listen as the chef shares his passion for Egyptian food and talks about how Mina Group is ramping up restaurant openings.

On this week’s podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discussed their recent eating adventures. That included Pat’s visit to a Hampton Inn, home of the original waffle bar, created by the midscale hotel chain 40 years ago. 

That historical milestone is being celebrated by the hotel chain and promoted by Paris Hilton, since Hampton Inn is a brand of her family’s hospitality empire, in the form of special pink waffles with edible glitter that guests can add. The hosts observed that there’s a lot of edible glitter on menus these days, because it’s fun and dazzling on social media and, one hopes, safe to eat. 

It turns out that some onions being served by McDonald’s probably weren’t safe and allegedly sickened a number of people, resulting in one fatality. Pat and Bret discussed that turn of events.

First, however Bret discussed his visit to a sushi restaurant in Midtown Manhattan, which he said was fine, just like a lot of sushi is fine these days, but not with the attention to detail that came with sushi in the past—the server didn’t even bother to explain what type of fish he had been served. Pat suggested that this is what happens when food like sushi becomes ubiquitous. 

She had a chance to visit the newest location of Kernel, a heavily automated quick-service restaurant developed by Chipotle founder Steve Ells, and was happy to report that the formerly meatless chain is now serving chicken. 

While Pat was at Kernel, Bret went to a preview of Hudson Club, a new restaurant in Midtown Manhattan headed up by chef John DeLucie. He particularly enjoyed oysters with an apple mignonette, and that was a nice segue to this week’s guest, Aaron Juvera, a level one certified oyster master and chef de cuisine of Southerleigh Fine Foods & Brewery in San Antonio, Texas. 

Juvera discussed the oyster master certification program, Texas’s burgeoning oyster-cultivation industry and Southerleigh’s increasing use of lesser-known fish species. We hope you’ll tune in.

On this week’s podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, share highlights from their recent eating and drinking excursions.

Both editors attended a media preview of Taco Bell’s chef-created Crunchwrap Supremes. The chain tapped three emerging chefs to come up with variations of this wildly popular menu item, and the results included Indian and Thai versions as well as a Southwest-style hot chicken. 

Bret also attended a Cava event at a country western bar in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, to celebrate the launch of the fast casual’s garlic ranch pita chips. The tie-in between ranch as a flavor and “ranch” as an icon of the American West was a little shaky, but Bret enjoyed the new chips and some ranch water cocktails. 

Australian coffee café Bluestone Lane was also a recent stop on Bret’s itinerary. It’s known for its personalized service, and he reported that he did get extra-special attention along with his flat white. And Pat took a trip to Cape Cod and treated herself to a lobster roll done in the Connecticut style—hot and toasty with lots of melted butter. She also enjoyed a New England specialty: fried clam bellies.

Speaking of clams, we share a conversation with Sammy Monsour, chef at Joyce Soul & Sea in L.A. and an ambassador for Food for Climate League, where he is promoting sustainable bivalves like clams as well as sea vegetables. October is National Seafood Month, and Monsour describes how he sources and prepares fresh seaweed, sea lettuces and mussels at his restaurant. He also talks about his advocacy work with the Monterey Bay Aquarium and other nonprofits to help chefs and consumers make smarter choices when it comes to farm-raised and wild-caught seafood.

On this week’s podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, discuss a week’s worth of eating adventures, starting with the CREATE conference in Nashville. 

The conference, geared toward emerging chains, is organized by NRN, so Bret and his colleagues were on the ground hosting sessions and networking with operators. He was super-impressed with the quality of the speakers—not a dud among them.

Bret was very busy at CREATE but he still had time to hit a couple of Nashville’s restaurants, including Rodney Scott’s whole-hog barbecue spot. Scott is famous for his North Carolina-style barbecue, where his now six-location restaurant started, and Bret feasted on pulled pork with cole slaw and collard greens. Spanish restaurant Barcelona was another stop on his Nashville dining tour, and Bret got to try a unique rendition of boquerones—marinated anchovies served on house-made potato chips—and huge platters of paella. 

Once back home, Bret attended EatOkra, a new festival celebrating Black-owned businesses. One of the standouts he sampled were nachos made with plantain chips topped with Haitian-style braised pork. He also took a trip to Princeton N.J. and visited restaurant Agricole, where he had a tasty mushroom flatbread. And Bret stopped at McDonald’s on the way back to try the new Chicken Big Mac. Tune in to hear his review.

Meanwhile, back in New York, Pat attended Eeeeeatscon, a food and entertainment festival organized by restaurant review platform, The Infatuation. All the vendors were local restaurants, including Shake Shack—now a national chain that got its start in Manhattan. Its booth served up the Thai Burger Shack, a cheeseburger topped with “evil jungle prince Shack Sauce,” pickled bamboo, green chili relish and Thai basil. Pat’s favorite taste was Hong Kong Style Wonton Noodles from Great NY Noodletown.

Also on offer were empanadas from actress Sophia Vergara’s Toma, a retail brand that she and her son, Manolo (the chef in the family) are planning to spin off into a fast casual. Manolo was especially proud of the everything bagel empanada he created exclusively for Eeeeeatscon.

Chef Tse Richmond

We wrapped up with clips from an interview Pat did with Tse Richmond, a culinary specialist with Sysco in Portland, Oregon. The chef was excited to talk about the fall product line from Sysco’s Cutting Edge Solutions, an innovation-focused division that supports smaller producers. Just rolling out this week are several seafood products, a new condiment, recipe-ready beans and global pork preparations. All are designed to help operators save time and labor while turning out signature menu items.

Chef Richmond is also playing around with AI, and she enthusiastically shares tips and smart strategies to maximize its benefits in the kitchen. Give a listen.

Bret was a bit of a homebody last week as he prepared for CREATE: The Event for Emerging Restaurateurs, a conference that Nation’s Restaurant News is hosting in Nashville this week, but he did enjoy traditional Jewish brisket for Rosh Hashannah at a friend’s home in Manhattan. 

Pat attended two Broadway shows that were preceded by tasty and affordable meals, which can be hard to find in New York City’s Theater District. She had a prix fixe pre-theater dinner of creamy parsnip soup, grilled swordfish with vegetables, and baklava at Kellari Taverna for $55, and before a Saturday matinee, she had a tasty and reasonably priced brunch at Boqueria, which was less than $20 per person (before tip) — an extreme rarity in Midtown Manhattan.

The co-hosts also discussed the Chicken Big Mac, which McDonald’s is launching on Oct. 10, replacing the two all-beef patties with breaded and fried chicken patties. Like the original sandwich, the new version has special sauce, lettuce, cheese, and pickles, but no onions. Bret wondered about that, which led to a discussion on the role of onions on a chicken sandwich and whether, in fact, they have a role to play at all. 

Then he shared an interview he had done with Rob Levitt, head butcher and chef de cuisine of Publican Quality Meats in Chicago. Levitt shared his passion for butchery and his appreciation for One-Off Hospitality’s leader and chef, Paul Kahan. He also discussed his appearance on the hit TV show "The Bear," streaming on Hulu, in which he played himself.

Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, kicked off this week’s podcast by briefly introducing a friend, of sorts. He had asked ChatGPT to greet the audience of Menu Talk, and the chatbot, which can now simulate a human voice much better than the electronic messages we have grown accustomed to, inferred pretty accurately what sorts of topics would be discussed in a podcast with that name. Real co-host Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, was duly impressed.

She was also impressed by KPOT, a Korean barbecue and hot pot concept that is one of the fastest growing restaurant chains in the country. The food was abundant and well-priced, the service was great and apart from the hot pot and barbecue, there was also a substantial food bar with kimchi and an assortment of different sauces, among other items.

Then Bret shared clips of an interview he did with Olivier Rassinoux, vice president of culinary and bar for Patina Restaurant Group, and they discussed cocktail trends, including spirit-free cocktails, as well as Rassinoux’s management style and the joy of dining out.

On this week’s podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, start off by chatting about the joys of grazing.

Neither editor is in the Gen Z or Millennial age group that popularized the “girl dinner” on TikTok, but both like to try small tastes of a lot of different things—whether they are eating alone or dining with friends. On a recent visit to Boston, Bret went to a dinner party where friends gathered around the counter and nibbled on Middle Eastern dips, sashimi, grilled scallops and more while they caught up with each other.

Pat is a fan of happy hours, which encourage sharing and nibbling without breaking the bank. She recently went to Springs Tavern on the East End of Long Island where the group ordered a multi-cultural spread that included mussels and frites, potstickers, chicken nachos and Mediterranean spreads with pita. Everything was under $15, including the $12 well-crafted margaritas.

Bret also mentioned how heat levels are escalating, sometimes to the detriment of the dish. During a visit to a Chinese restaurant his table specified “medium” spicing on the food they ordered, but it was too hot for most of the diners. 

Which brings us to Eggs in Purgatory, an item that seems to be showing up more often on breakfast menus. Can it be the next Shakshuka? Let us know your thoughts.

Pat was down in Atlanta visiting GoTo Foods and the team from Moe’s Southwest Kitchen. She learned to roll her own burrito like the pros at Moe’s and got a sneak peek at some of the flavors coming on to the menu. Look for birria and chili crisp soon.

And we shared clips from an interview with Paul Pszybylski, VP of culinary innovation for California Pizza Kitchen. The chef has been with CPK for 15 years but recently moved into this role. 

He talks about how the menu has evolved, the signatures that can never be taken away, labor challenges, and the new direction of CPK’s sourcing and limited time offers. Chef Pszybylski is especially proud of the new Nashville hot chicken pizza he developed. Give a listen.

On this week’s podcast, Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, talk about the post-summer flurry of restaurant activity in New York City.

Bret was treated to a pre-opening preview of Alessa, a new Italian restaurant where the chef created a menu spotlighting mushrooms in many sizes and shapes. His first bite was a white pizza topped with assorted mushrooms and lots of garlic, then he moved on to crab-stuffed cremini mushrooms and risotto with hen-of-the-woods and truffle butter. Mushrooms and fall are a perfect pairing, although the pistachio gelato for dessert was devoid of mushrooms.

Bret also got to try a new Korean restaurant from Hand Hospitality called Odre, where the food is cooked in cast-iron pots. It’s kind of a rustic style for what he thought was a refined tasting menu, but he thoroughly enjoyed all the different courses.

That night, he sampled asparagus with cured shrimp in a pine nut sauce with grapefruit, squash pancakes, little pork dumplings with shiso leaf, and braised beef shank with shishito pepper and yes—mushrooms. The tasting menu is a reasonable $42 for dinner.

Also on Bret’s restaurant itinerary was the revamped Central Park Boathouse, a venue in the middle of NYC’s Central Park that has long been known as a special occasion place. It was recently taken over by Legends Hospitality—the same company that does the food at Yankee Stadium—and there’s a new chef-driven menu that makes it a great destination for lunch and dinner.

David Pasternak, a chef known for his former seafood-focused restaurant Esca, is a consultant, so Bret tried some of the fish dishes, including a salmon crudo and swordfish.

Pat was on vacation and was dining around in the South of France instead of New York City, but she did get a chance to interview Brad Hedeman and Mo Frechette of Zingerman’s, the destination deli in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Brad and Mo both worked behind the counter and in the retail section of the famous deli, but now head up Zingerman’s thriving mail-order business.

They talk about how they travel the world to meet farmers and producers and procure the specialty foods that have built Zingerman’s reputation. Service and hospitality are built into Zingerman’s DNA, and Brad and Mo share how they extend that to online customers that they never interact with face-to-face.

People in any part of the restaurant industry can learn a lot from their many years of combined experience and fascinating stories. Give a listen.