ON BOYS Podcast

Jaclyn Greenberg often feels like she’s living a divided life.

When her daughter was born, there was music and laughter in the birthing room. When her disabled son was born, there was no music. No laughter. In fact, everyone swept out of the room soon after the baby’s birth, taking him with them. Jacyln hadn’t even had a chance to say hello.

Raising a disabled son alongside two typically-developing children (her daughter and youngest son) presents unique challenges and opportunities.

“I’ve learned, from my son, how to advocate for and speak up for my son, and it’s taught me how to do that for myself and other people in my family,” says Jaclyn, a writer who’s working on a memoir that’s tentatively titled Keeping Us Together. “There’s something about having children that makes you brave in a way you haven’t been before.”

Advocating for inclusion

Henry, Jacyln’s disabled son, will likely never walk or talk. The world at large isn’t very accessible to those who don’t walk and talk (or see, hear, speak, sense, and act like most others), so it’s difficult for Jacklyn’s family to do things together.

“I don’t want my husband to take my son and I take the other two. I don’t want us to have to divide and conquer,” she says. “I want us to experience life together.”

Henry’s siblings have long found ways to include him. “They will go to people’s houses on Halloween and say, ‘My brother can’t come up here because you have stairs. Could you please come downstairs?'” Jacyln says.

Others aren’t always accommodating, and too many people don’t make an effort to include people with disabilities. Some people even instruct their young kids to “look away” when they see a person with disabilities. These parents may believe they’re teaching their children not to stare at people who look or act differently, but it’s better, Jacyln says, to model curiosity and kindness.

“To me, the worst thing someone can say is, ‘don’t stare; look away,’ because they’re teaching a child to ignore somebody who looks different rather than to learn about them and engage with them,” she says. “It’s okay to stumble. It’s okay to say the wrong thing. Ask what’s the right thing. Ask ‘how can I include you?'”

In this episode, Janet & Jaclyn discuss:

• Parenting typically-developing & disabled children
• Inclusion & accessibility
• Managing mom guilt
• Pulling together a team of specialists
• Advocating for your disabled child
• Resources for parents of disabled boys
• Asking for (& receiving) help

Links we mentioned (or should have) in this episode:

jaclyngreenbergwriter.com – Jaclyn’s website

What My Children’s Relationship Taught Me About Accessibility & Inclusion — ScaryMommy article by Jaclyn

How an Adaptive Game Controller Helps My Family Bond – Wired article by Jaclyn

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Is middle school misunderstood — or magic?

For most of us — and many of our kids — middle school is a pretty miserable time. But that’s largely because most educators and parents misunderstand middle schoolers & these critical years.

“This is a very pervasive story, that middle school is terrible. But it doesn’t have to be. We make it terrible by working directly against the developmental needs of middle schoolers and designing these buildings and classes in way that make their lives really hard,” says veteran educator Chris Balme, author of Finding the Magic in Middle School: Tapping into the Power and Potential of the Middle School Years.

Middle Schoolers Have Unique Developmental Needs

There are two time periods in our lives when the brain is growing the fastest: the early childhood years (approximately ages 0-5) and early adolescence (approximately ages 11-16). In early adolescence, “the brain reforms itself as a social brain,” Chris says. That’s why middle schoolers are so acutely attuned to their peers (and seem more interested in social situations than academics).

Middle schoolers progress through predictable developmental stages:

• Belonging. A middle schooler “needs to feel as if there’s one group, or at least one person, that they feel safe with, who wants them to be here and is consistent,” Chris says. If they don’t have that sense of belonging, they can’t show up to their full potential.
• Achievement. During this stage, kids “try to show what they’ve got,” Chris says. They want to show that they can do things of value. Note: Kids can only move into achievement once they feel a solid sense of belonging.
• Authenticity. This stage involves figuring out what they really like (& don’t like.). Kids eventually learn to express more of their authentic self in their daily lives.

Helping Boys Thrive Despite Less-Than-Ideal Middle Schools

“If a school doesn’t give at least a third of the day for social and movement time, it is holding our kids back developmentally,” Chris says.

Of course, many of our boys attend middle schools that don’t prioritize movement and socialization. So, it’s on parents to help them thrive. One way we can do this, Chris says, is to be weird. Middle schoolers can (& should) see their parents pursue hobbies and interests — and see us resolve conflicts and cope with challenges.

If your son is getting into trouble at a school that doens’t respect his needs for movement, socialization, belonging, and achievement, your number one priority should be to “not make it worse,” Chris says. “School has made this child’s life harder than it needs to be.” Instead, work with your child to understand what’s beneath his behavior. Help him figure out other ways to meet his needs.

“We can stress a little bit less about academics in middle school,” Chris says. “If we actually help someone finish middle school feeling like they have some sense of who they are authentically, and they’re confident and skillful enough to put that out in the social world, and they’ve got some friendships based on their authentic sense of self, that is such a win.

“That is really what I think the goal posts should be for middle school.”

In this episode, Jen, Janet, & Chris discuss:

• Why modern middle school is a miserable experience for many middle schoolers & their families
• Developmental needs of middle schoolers
• “Twinning” — when tweens copy others’ look or behavior
• How parents & educators can help tweens & teens work toward belonging, achievement, & authenticity
• Why you should STRESS LESS ABOUT ACADEMICS
• Giving middle schoolers more responsibility

Links we mentioned (or should have) in this episode:

Finding the Magic in Middle School: Tapping into the Power and Potential of the Middle School Years, by Chris Balme

chrisbalme.com — Chris’s website

Growing Wiser — Chris’s Substack newsletter

What Middle School Boys Need — ON BOYS episode

Braden Bell Explains Middle School Boys — ON BOYS episode

Middle School Matters w Phyllis Fagell — ON BOYS episode

Phyllis Fagell Discusses Middle School Superpowers — ON BOYS episode

Sponsor Spotlight: Dabble & Dollop

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Most schools today aren’t boy-friendly. 

That’s one (big!) reason why boys lag behind girls academically. And why so many boys hate going to school. 

Tyler, a 16-year-old Texas boy, started struggling in middle school. Recess was no more. Classes were 90 minutes long. So, “he found it really hard to sit still in class,” says Julie Jargon, the Wall Street Journal Family & Tech columnist who interviewed Tyler for her series on boys and education. Now a high school student, Tyler suggests that “instead of making guys change the way they behave, maybe schools should change the way they’re structured.”

Boy-friendly education practices

Movement helps humans remain alert and engaged. Simply shifting activities every 15 minutes or so can boost boys’ (and girls’) performance in the classroom. Time outside is helpful as well. Visual cues can help keep boys on track too. Boy-friendly schools also prioritize hands-on learning.

“A lot of these things that are beneficial for boys are the same for girls. It’s not that girls need something vastly different,” Julie says. “The things that benefit boys also benefit girls. You can adopt boy-friendly practices in your school without being unfriendly to girls.”

All students benefit from time to reflect on — and correct — academic, social, and behavioral mistakes. One of the all-boys schools Julie wrote about uses a restorative justice approach, she says.

“Instead of just punishing them, they give boys an opportunity to talk about it and apologize,” Julie says. That approach helps boys hone their emotional intelligence and communication skills.

In this episode, Jen, Janet, & Julie discuss:

• Why so many boys struggle in middle school
• How misunderstanding male development contributes to boys’ problems in school
• Workarounds parents use to help boys
• Boy-friendly education practices
• Pushing back against developmentally inappropriate expectations
• Single-sex vs coed schools & classes
• Support for parents of boys

Links we mentioned (or should have) in this episode:

Boys are Struggling. It Can Take Coaches, Tutors, and Thousands a Month to Fix That — WSJ article by Julie

Inside the Schools Where Boys Can Be Boys — WSJ article by Julie

Losing a Grandparent Hurts Boys at School — Scientific American article

Set Boys Up for School Success — ON BOYS episode

Boys in School Task Force –– ON BOYS episode

The Gender Equation in Schools — ON BOYS episode

Boy Moms as Boy Advocates — ON BOYS episode featuring Gemma Gaudette

Sponsor Spotlight: Winona

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Sponsor Spotlight: Dabble & Dollop

Natural bath products for kids

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Modern male puberty starts earlier than you think.

It may start as early as age 9 in boys – which means that the mood swings you’re seeing in your 10-year-old son could well be puberty-related. After all, as Cara Natterson & Vanessa Kroll Bennett write in their book This is So Awkward: Modern Puberty Explained, “The very first sign of puberty in most kids is a slamming door.” 

Most parents of boys aren’t prepared for male puberty. (And may be in denial when the first signs start appearing.) The earliest physical symptoms of male puberty aren’t obvious & typically occur around the same time your son starts seeking more privacy. So “you might not actually know when your kid is in puberty,” Vanessa says.

Why your 10-year-old son may be acting like a 16-year-old

Sex hormones fuel the physical changes that occur during puberty. (Testosterone is the primary male sex hormone.) These hormones also have a tremendous impact on our kids’ moods and well-being. And high levels of testosterone are linked to rage, as well as boys’ “swing to silence” during puberty.

“When those hormones rise and fall, they do not do so gracefully,” says Cara, a pediatrician. “They do not do so slowly. It’s high, high, HIGH, rapid surge, and then you’re off the edge of the cliff and you’re pummeling to the floor. Those hormones drop and bottom out.” These swings can happen in a matter of hours. And that, Cara says, “is what you are seeing when your kid behaves like a jerk.”

Kids don’t enjoy those sudden shifts and swings either. “Their brain is being bathed in a stew of hormones that is not familiar to them, and they don’t know how to manage how they feel as a result of this cocktail that is saturating all of the neurons in the brain,” Cara says.

Boys’ brains are still maturing during puberty too. They don’t yet have fully mature emotional regulation systems. And while they need to learn how to control their behavior, it takes time (and, typically, many mistakes) to develop consistent behavioral control. So, parents, educators, and other adults need to extend grace and compassion to tweens and teens.

“We have to give them the benefit of the doubt,” Vanessa says. “And give them a way back. They don’t feel good when they get that angry or emotional or react violently. They may feel ashamed or embarrassed.”

Surviving your son’s adolescence

It is completely normal to feel grief, doubt, anger, and fear as your son moves through puberty. During adolescence, boys (and girls) pull away from their parents. That separation is necessary and normal, but can feel like rejection to parents. It’s okay to grieve and feel sad. Take comfort, though, in the fact that boys typically “come back” to their parents as they reach the far side of puberty.

Your son may well be annoying, thoughtless, disrespectful, disorganized, smelly, and messy during puberty. None of that means he’ll end up that way as an adult. And none of it means that you’re doing (or have done) something wrong.

“The path to building kind, empathic, loving, thoughtful men is a very windy, bumpy road,” Vanessa says. “And at every step of the way, it can be really tempting to lose faith.”

When a boy reacts angrily or violently, stay calm. Give them space. Connect with them after they’ve cooled down. During calmer times, teach & talk about emotions. Navigate puberty along your son, seeking support as needed.

In this episode, Jen, Cara, & Vanessa discuss:

• The #1 question Cara & Vanessa get about male puberty
• Acknowledging the grief & sadness you may feel as your son enters puberty
• Building men
• How (& why) hormones affect teen boys’ behavior
• Puberty & perimenopause
• Helping boys manage their mood swings
• Wet dreams
• Talking about safer sex, contraception, family planning, intimacy, consent, & loving relationships

Links we mentioned (or should have) in this episode:

This is So Awkward: Modern Puberty Explained, by Cara Natterson, MD & Vanessa Kroll Bennett

lessawkward.com — Cara & Vanessa’s website (includes links to their books, newsletter, podcast, & talks)

The Puberty Podcast — Cara & Vanessa’s podcast (Don’t miss Jen on their podcast — Building Boys with Jennifer Fink)

Decoding Boys w Dr. Cara Natterson –– ON BOYS episode

The Truth About Parenting Teen Boys — the famous BuildingBoys post about 14-yr-old boys being a**holes

Puberty, Perimenopause, & Midlife Parenting — ON BOYS episode

Guy Stuff: The Body Book for Boys, by Cara Natterson

Guy Stuff Feelings: Everything You Need to Know About Your Emotions, by Cara Natterson

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There’s a connection between adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) & muscle dysmorphia, which is a strong desire to bulk up your body.

According to new research by Kyle Ganson, an assistant professor in Canada & a licensed clinical social worker who’s worked with teenagers & young adults, boys who experience abuse, neglect, incarceration or divorce of a parent, poverty, or parental mental illness or substance use, are more likely to develop muscle dysmorphia. That’s important because it a) suggests ways to prevent muscle dysmorphia and b) indicates which boys may benefit from screening and intervention.

Many well-meaning adults miss (or ignore) the symptoms of muscle dysmorphia because, on the surface, many of those symptoms appear healthy. A sudden, dedicated interest in fitness is often praised by parents & coaches; so is boys’ desire to “eat healthy.” But muscle dysmorphia is unhealthy and can become physically and emotionally damaging. Boys and men who are obsessed with bulking up may prioritize working out over all else. They may decline social outings and family gatherings that revolve around food.

Adults may assume that a boy’s desire to bulk up is rooted in his desire to obtain a specific “look.” But “sometimes for boys, it’s not always about the aesthetic appearance; it’s about the function,” Kyle says. That may be especially true for boys who were bullied or abused.

What the research says about ACES & muscle dysmorphia

Kyle’s research showed that children who experience 5 or more ACEs are more likely than others to develop symptoms of muscle dysmorphia. That association “was particularly strong for boys & young men,” he says. In fact, 30% of young boys who had 5 or more ACES were at clinical risk of muscle dysmorphia. (For comparison, only 10% of the girls who had 5 or more ACEs were at clinical risk of muscle dysmorphia.) The researchers also found that boys who experienced multiple ACEs were more likely than others to use performance enhancing drugs and supplements.

Please note: Not all children who have ACEs experience adverse outcomes. However, if your son has a history of ACEs, stay alert for possible symptoms of muscle dysmorphia. If he shows a sudden interest in going to the gym or changing his diet, Kyle recommends approaching him with “respectful curiosity.” Ask questions; listen carefully.

In this episode, Jen, Janet, & Kyle discuss:

• Symptoms of muscle dysmorphia
• The link between ACEs & muscle dysmorphia
• Why ACES may increase the risk of muscle dysmorphia for boys
• Dealing with diet culture
• Talking to healthcare professionals about muscle dysmorphia

Links we mentioned (or should have) in this episode:

Adverse Childhood Experiences and Muscle Dysmorphia Symptomatology: Findings from a Sample of Canadian Adolescents and Young Adults — Kyle’s research study

Body Image, Eating Disorders, & Boys — ON BOYS episode

Helping Boys Develop Healthy Body Image — ON BOYS episode

Boys & Body Image — ON BOYS episode

Why Now is the Best Time to Raise Boys (w Michael Reichert) — ON BOYS episode

Picky Eaters, Family Meals, & Nutrition — ON BOYS episode

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How can boys experience school success? 

Parents and educators frequently ask, “How do we help boys thrive in school?” A question we rarely ask is, What can boys do to set themselves up for school success? What can we do to help boys successfully navigate school?

“It’s really essential that we, as parents & educators of boys, are preparing them to navigate the struggles within school,” says Dr. Todd (Jason) Feltman, author of Transforming into a Powerful Third, Fourth, or 5th Grade Navigator of School Success.  “It’s not just the academic struggles but also the socialization, the physical and emotional struggles.”

Equipping boys with strategies they can use to manage these stressors can increase their confidence & school success.

Strategies to Help Boys Succeed

Generally speaking, boys have a hard time sitting still in the classroom. Todd recommends addressing this issue head-on with your boy. Talk about this challenge & help him brainstorm ways to incorporate movement. Teach him how to self-advocate with his teacher. (Perhaps they could agree on a non-verbal signal that could mean it’s okay to stand and stretch.)

Allowing boys to draw before beginning a writing assignment can also be helpful. (Many boys think visually – and many elementary school-aged boys struggle with handwriting and spelling.)

“Every student has strengths,” Todd says. “We need to teach them how to unpack and apply their strength. I know that boys can take charge of their education.”

In this episode, Jen, Janet, & Todd discuss:

• Why 3rd, 4th, & 5th grade are so challenging for boys
• Helping boys self-advocate
• The link between sleep & learning
• Teaching boys organization (Note: modeling, mentoring, & regular practice helps!)
• Why should you ask for boys’ input
• What to say when a boy says “the teacher doesn’t like me”
• Setting high expectations for school success
• Developmentally appropriate school expectations

Links we mentioned (or should have) in this episode:

toddfeltman.com — Todd’s website

Transforming into a Powerful Third, Fourth, or Fifth Grade Navigator of School Success, by Dr. Todd (Jason) Feltman

Mentoring My Elementary- and Middle-School Students to Become Powerful Navigators of Success, by Dr. Todd Feltman

Building Boys’ Reading & Literacy Skills — previous ON BOYS episode w Dr. Feltman

Sponsor Spotlight: ByHeart 

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Color blindness affects a lot of boys.

In fact, 1 in 12 males are color blind. They perceive color differently than most humans. Some see shades of tan instead of vivid reds and greens. Some see life in black, white, and grey. Many don’t realize that they see things differently than their peers, teachers, and parents. And many parents and teachers don’t realize that their boys are colorblind – which can lead to unnecessary learning complications and affect boys’ learning.

Signs of Color Blindness

Jessica Fleming, a writer & mom of 4 sons (currently age 9, 7, 5, and 5), first realized her 7-year-old son’s vision was different when she asked her boys to sort the books in her office by color. After a few minutes, her oldest son declared, “Everett doesn’t know his colors!” and pointed out a couple out-of-place books, including a pink tome. Further questioning revealed that her second-grade son was as confused by his “mistakes” as the rest of his family.

Then Jessica remembered that she had an uncle who was colorblind. She found a color blindness test online, administered it to her son, and learned he has a vision deficiency. A follow up visit to an ophthalmologist revealed that her son has a red/green vision deficiency, the most common kind of color blindness. To him, red and green look virtually the same — almost like a khaki brown.

Some kids who are colorblind don’t like art — so pay attention and dig a little deeper if your son avoids (or complains about!) art activities. (P.S. Sam, Jen’s son, is not colorblind!)

Unfortunately, color blindness is often not diagnosed until a child is in middle school. Some people are adults when they first realize they are color blind.

How Color Blindness Affects Boys’ Education

Contrary to popular belief, color blindness can affect quality of life. Early childhood and elementary school education depends heavily on color cues and visual processing, so kids who are colorblind may struggle in school. Many children who are colorblind are in special ed classes – perhaps because they couldn’t see and access information as easily as their peers.

If you suspect (or know) that your son is colorblind, tell his teachers ASAP. Simple accommodations, such as printing things in black-and-white instead of color, can help him. Ensuring a high contrast between print and background colors is also helpful. Another: Instead of color-coding maps and graphs, use patterns, such as polka dots and stripes. Be sure art supplies are labeled with the color name. Color vision-correcting glasses are also available.

Kids who are color blind are also eligible for a 504 plan.

Testing Can Easily Detect Color Blindness

Only 11 states test for colorblindness during vision screenings at school, even though the test is non-invasive, cheap, and easy to administer. Jessica recommends administering an online screening test to all kids.

In this episode, Jen, Janet, & Jessica discuss:

• Signs and symptoms
• Types of color blindness
• Testing for color blindness
• Genetics of color blindness
• Adaptations to help kids who are color blind
• Advocating for color blind kids

Links we mentioned (or should have) in this episode:

Countless Kids are Colorblind – and Don’t Know About It. Here’s How to Help — Jessica’s Washington Post article

Roanoke City Schools Discover Hundreds of Students May be Color Blind

Enchroma online color blindness test

Myths & Misconceptions About Boys — previous ON BOYS episode with Jessica

Boy Moms as Boys Advocates — ON BOYS episode with Gemma Gaudette

 

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Which ON BOYS episodes were the Best of 2023? 

Photo by Photo by Engin Akyurt via Pexels

Your favorites include:

5. Simplicity Parenting with Kim John Payne

Simplicity parenting prioritizes a balanced schedule, predictable rhythm, and decluttered, information-filtered family environment…The antidote to constant overwhelm is simple, Payne says. It’s simplicity. He advises parents to “dial back”…

4. Parental Accommodation & ADHD (featuring ADHD Dude Ryan Wexelblatt)

“Parental accommodation is when parents change their behavior to alleviate or avoid their child’s temporary distress,” Ryan says. It’s often done out of love — and fear. Doing so may avoid some conflict, but it allows unhelpful behaviors to continue….

3. Talking to Tween & Teen Boys (featuring Johnathon Reed of NextGenMen)

…boys won’t necessarily tell you about their problems. “If boys are struggling, often they’re struggling in silence,” Reed says. “There’s still a stigma against asking for help, particularly when it also means admitting a weakness or a vulnerability.”

2. Teen Boys’ Emotional LIves (featuring Brendan Kwiatkowski, PhD)

…the #1 reason why teen boys restrict emotion (& emotional expression) is because “they don’t want to burden other people.”The #2 reason is “fear of judgment.”

1. Parenting “Spicy” Boys (featuring Mary Van Geffen)

“Spicy” boys are those who express themselves in big and loud ways, feel things intensely, and have energy to spare…They often are very persistent and quite emotionally intelligent.

A few of our other 2023 favorites:

Building Boys in a World that Misunderstands Males

What Middle School Boys Need

Phyllis Fagell Discuss Middle School Superpowers

Nonverbal Communication with Boys

Boys, Babies, & Breastfeeding

Calm the Chaos: Parenting Challenging Kids

Emotional Lives of Teens

Why Now is the Best Time to Raise Boys

Sponsor Spotlight: ByHeart 

Get 10% off your first order using code ONBOYS at byheart.com

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Our January 5 conversation with Mary Van Geffen, Parenting “Spicy” Boys, is ON BOYS’ Most Popular Episode of 2023. (And Jen’s sons’ least favorite! Gen Z defines “spicy” quite differently than we’re using it here.)

Sure, this episode, released early in the year, had the benefit of time. But Mary’s message also resonates with frustrated and overwhelmed parents of boys. As she told us,

“Spicy” boys are those who express themselves in big and loud ways, feel things intensely, and have energy to spare. They “have so much loyalty toward their own soul — and less to the adults’ agenda.”

Mary’s audience continues to grow — she has over 286,000 Instagram followers! — because parents need help supporting their strong, spicy kids. You’ll want to listen to this episode more than once because a) it contains a lot of wisdom and b) because your spicy kids are now likely challenging you in ways they weren’t the first time you listened!

In this episode, Jen, Janet, & Mary discuss:

• Characteristics of a Spicy One
• Why shame-based discipline approaches don’t work with spicy boys
• How your perceptions affect your parenting & relationship w your child
• Parenting when you are spicy or highly sensitive
• A sensual pause technique you can use to calm your nervous system
• How changing your voice can help you reach your kids
• Setting boundaries & managing others’ expectations
• Grocery shopping with boys

Links we mentioned (or should have) in this episode:

maryvangeffen.com – Mary’s website

https://www.instagram.com/maryvangeffen/ — Mary on Instagram

Highly Sensitive People Can Thrive — ON BOYS episode

Highly Sensitive Boys with William Allen — ON BOYS episode

Sensitive Boys (w Dr. Sandy Gluckman) — ON BOYS episode

Brain-Body Parenting w Dr. Mona Delahooke — ON BOYS episode

Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours — book by Shirzad Chamine (recommended by Mary)

Sponsor Spotlight: ByHeart 

Get 10% off your first order using code ONBOYS at byheart.com

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YouTube isn’t all entertainment and education. Misogyny, racism, and porn lurk there too.

It can be really difficult to keep up with what our boys are watching online, though. Creators come & go, interests change, one click can lead to, well, anywhere.

Boys love YouTube

YouTube is ubiquitous these days. Gaming and challenge videos (think Mr. Beast) are certainly popular with boys, but many also engage in educational content on the site.

“It’s Google and YouTube,” says Cindy Marie Jenkins, founder of OutThink Media. “Those are the search engines” people now use to find information. It’s better, safer, and more effective to teach your boys how to navigate YouTube (and other online spaces) than it is to ban them all together. (Especially because motivated kids can get around almost any parental control!)

“We have a massive responsibility to give boys the tools they need to be amazing people,” Cindy says. Parents and other adults can (& should) mentor and guide children as they explore online. Here’s how:

1. Build your relationship, so your boys know they can talk to you without judgement. “Let them know that you are interested & want to be involved,” Cindy says. “Not in a dictatorial way, but in a ‘let’s have conversations about this’ way.” Express curiosity.
2. Build boys’ critical thinking skills, both so they’re better able to understand and process what they see and hear online and so they’re prepared to discuss online personalities, ideas, and videos with their friends.

YouTube videos can radicalize boys

You can certainly find blatant misogyny, misandry, hate, and racism on YouTube. But most boys don’t watch those videos. Many, however, watch creators who casually “slide in” comments that may appear to jokes but might also consistently point blame at a particular group of people. You might notice, for instance, that five “jokes” in a row singled out Black people as the antagonists, Cindy says.

Certain things that may seem relatively harmless on the surface can lead to more extreme videos and ideas. “Trad” content, emphasizes traditional gender roles and female submission to men in marriage. It can celebrate women as homemakers and men as providers — and can convince some boys that males should be dominant in relationships and the females are meant to submit to their leadership.

The pathway to extremism is not necessarily obvious. “It can start with something small and then blow up into, ‘This is what’s wrong with everything,'” Cindy says.

How to protect your kids online

LISTEN to what your kids are talking about. And listen to what they say when you ask them about the videos and creators they see online. Pay attention if your kids seem to be obsessing or angry about certain topics or ideas.

Ask questions with curiosity. Use, but don’t completely trust, parental controls and filtering software.

Talk about trending videos, movies, ideas, and games. Share your perspective and add context. You can also seek out and share YouTube videos about creators’ personal experiences with hate, misogyny, and racism. Cindy “watches YouTube so you don’t have to,” so you can check her site OutThink Media, to learn more about the creators, gamers, and YouTubers your kids are watching.

In this episode, Jen, Janet, & Cindy discuss:

• Educational power of YouTube
• How to mentor and guide kids’ YouTube use
• Trad wives
• The Great Replacement theory
• Gamergate
• Kids’ parasocial relationships with YouTubers
• Doxxing
• Discussing media

Links we mentioned (or should have) in this episode:

OutThink Media — Cindy’s website

Why I’m Not Worried About Screen Time — Jen’s BuildingBoys post (the one about Sam studding his bike tires)

How One Mom Talks to Her Sons About Hate on the Internet — NPR story about Joanna Schroeder‘s viral Tweet thread

YouTube Merch Part 1: 7 Reasons Not to Buy Prime Energy Drink — OutThink Media post about energy drink promoted by (former YouTuber) Logan Paul

Sisters in Hate: American Women & White Extremism, by Seyward Darby — thought-provoking book that details how individuals become extremists

Amy Lang on How to Keep Boys Safe Online –– ON BOYS podcast episode

Social Media Safety — ON BOYS podcast episode

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