Dwarkesh Patel recorded a Podcast with John Schulman, cofounder of OpenAI and at the time their head of current model post-training. Transcript here. John's job at the time was to make the current AIs do what OpenAI wanted them to do. That is an important task, but one that employs techniques that their at-the-time head of alignment, Jan Leike, made clear we should not expect to work on future more capable systems. I strongly agree with Leike on that.

Then Sutskever left and Leike resigned, and John Schulman was made the new head of alignment, now charged with what superalignment efforts remain at OpenAI to give us the ability to control future AGIs and ASIs.

This gives us a golden opportunity to assess where his head is at, without him knowing he was about to step into that role.

There is no question that John Schulman [...]

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Outline:

(01:12) The Big Take

(07:27) The Podcast

(20:27) Reasoning and Capabilities Development

(25:01) Practical Considerations

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Narrated by TYPE III AUDIO.