Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

In this episode, Dr. David Yeager, a psychology professor at the University of Texas, shares groundbreaking insights from his book 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People. He challenges common misconceptions about teen motivation and presents research-based strategies for parents and teachers to encourage teens. Dr. Yeager explains how understanding the teenage brain, using autonomy-supportive language, and practicing "do-overs" can improve communication and motivation.

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5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:01.513)

Dr. David Yeager (00:46.424)

Dr. Cam (01:49.151)

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Dr. Cam (04:30.849)

Dr. David Yeager (04:51.212)

Dr. Cam (06:26.913)

Dr. David Yeager (07:42.146)

The updated view is a neurobiological competence model. Teens are really good at some things—just not what adults expect. The teenage brain is like the R&D engine for our culture. As society and technology change, teens have to adapt quickly and figure out how to succeed in our world—and they do this far faster than adults. What adults may see as a short attention span is often the brain at the frontier of innovation. Think about it: The same adults who complain about kids loitering at the mall might be served by an excellent 16-year-old waiter without even noticing. The teenage brain is paying attention to different things, and once we understand what those things are, we can communicate more effectively, inspiring independence and motivation in young people.

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Dr. David Yeager (11:28.268):

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Dr. Cam (25:24):

Dr. David Yeager (25:48):

What I’ve learned is a couple of things. One is that a big reason for complaints is that we’re often not transparent about why we’re holding the standard. We might just say, “Do this,” and when they ask why, we say, “Because I said so.” We don’t explain. But explanations show respect. If I asked you to do something for me without giving a reason, I’d come across like a jerk. I’d be manipulating you. But we talk to teenagers this way all the time, which would be totally inappropriate with other adults. The problem is that we still think they’re children, and they think they’re adults. So, there’s this two- to three-year gap in communication. They feel talked down to, and we feel like we’re being appropriate.

So, sometimes, you can ask for the same thing but be clear about your intentions. Show them how what you’re asking will help them become a better person or contribute to their happiness. Transparency is one simple step. Another, a bit harder, but very important, is questioning. Instead of just telling them, try asking for their perspectives. Avoid questions like, “What were you thinking?” because that implies they weren’t thinking. Instead, show curiosity by asking authentic questions that invite them to share their reasoning. When you do this, they feel respected and heard, and they’ll often start telling you what you want.

I’ll tell you, a lot of this comes from negotiation tactics, like those used in hostage situations. Sometimes talking to a teenager about going to a party feels like a hostage negotiation! And it turns out, the same tactics that work for negotiating with hostages also work with teenagers.

Dr. Cam (28:51):

Dr. David Yeager (29:08):

The problem with negotiations is offering something they don’t want. If you understand what they want, you can offer a deal they’re more likely to accept. That’s often what it’s like talking to teenagers.

Dr. Cam (30:03):

Dr. David Yeager (30:21):

In one paper I published in Nature a few years ago, we reframed difficulty. We showed that difficulty actually means you’re doing something ambitious. It’s a sign you care about something important. And those physical symptoms—the racing heart, the sweaty palms—are actually your body mobilizing resources to help you perform better. Your body sweats to cool itself down, and that helps you think more clearly. Your heart races to get oxygenated blood to your brain, which helps you think faster. So, reframing anxiety as excitement can help.

There are other reasons they don’t do homework, like not seeing the point, but I cover those in detail in the book, with practical tools.

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About the Show:

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

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In this episode, former CNN anchor Carl Azuz joins Dr. Cam to explore how to teach teens media literacy and critical thinking in today's news-driven world. Carl shares strategies for helping teens navigate bias, develop independent opinions, and manage anxiety caused by negative news. They discuss the importance of fostering open conversations, promoting respectful discourse, and exposing teens to diverse perspectives to encourage empathy and tolerance. Learn how to help your teen separate fact from opinion, engage in thoughtful discussions, and gain a broader understanding of the world around them.

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00:00 - Introduction and Carl Azuz’s Background

CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Carl Azuz

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:02.039)

Are your teens overwhelmed by today's chaotic news cycle? Do you wonder how to help them separate fact from opinion in a world full of bias? Today, we've got Carl Azuz, former CNN 10 anchor and new creator of the world from A to Z. Here to share how we can teach our teens media literacy, civil discourse, and critical thinking. So let's dive in. Carl, welcome to the show.

Carl Azuz (00:26.594)

Hey, it's fantastic being here with you, Dr. Cam. Thank you for having me on.

Dr. Cam (00:30.161)

Absolutely. let's start. You were on CNN for a while and then you have started the world from A to Z. Can you tell us a little bit about that first and how did that become in how did that come into reality?

Carl Azuz (00:43.022)

Absolutely, I had spent my entire career at CNN up until about the fall of 2022. I was gonna say October is probably around September, October of 2022. I was recruited to work there right out of college. I'd studied video and film production, not specifically broadcast news, though the University of Georgia had a strong broadcast news major you could focus on. But CNN was recruiting.

And I went for it because I'd been familiar with the network. I'd watched at home as I was growing up and everything. And I'd started at the very entry level two days after I graduated college. In fact, Ted Turner, who founded CNN, spoke at my college graduation coincidentally, and I didn't attend it because I was moving back to Atlanta to work for that man two days later. So that was like my little Ted Turner story, but everybody had one in those days. that was up.

Dr. Cam (01:32.621)

that's funny.

Carl Azuz (01:38.126)

You know, that was my career. I got on the air there and spent about 15 years on the air hosting CNN student news. It rebranded to CNN 10 around 2017. Then left the network in the fall of 2022. I freelanced for a year working with Sunlight Homeschool Curriculum, working with the Poynter Institute as a media ambassador, media literacy being my focus and did some public speaking. And then in the fall of 23, we launched the world from A to Z. And it's such an exciting thing because

We are independently produced. We are able to cover the news. can cover whatever's happening, whatever the story of the day might be, whether it's here or abroad. We want it to be very international, because after all, it's the world from A to Z. But we are able to do that without any sort of partisan bias. And that's really my priority when covering anything controversial, anything political. I don't want the show to lean to the left or the right.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, but is my intention to be as perfect as we can in, know, treating multiple viewpoints the same way without prioritizing one side over the other, especially when it comes to politics.

Dr. Cam (02:49.543)

imagine that's incredibly hard right now because everything is so completely at opposite ends. So how do you even do that? Where do you find middle ground? I don't even know where it is anymore.

Carl Azuz (03:03.566)

It's a challenge and I'm grateful to have had, you know, so many years of experience when I was training to write. I remember I had a really good piece of advice. and this was, this is many years ago. This is before I was even on the air, but I remember that there was an executive who sat down with us and said, don't just make sure every story is balanced. Make sure they're weighted the same. If you give a minute, 20 seconds to one political party and 15 seconds to the other, you could argue that you had balance. had multiple perspectives.but you're not weighting them the same. And so in those days, the priority was to have balance and weight. And so those are things I look for, but you, I mean, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, these are incredibly divided times and you know, folks in media, and this isn't a knock on any one network. This is media wide. People are increasingly telling news through blue or red tinted glasses. And so for us, you're right, it is a challenge. It is more challenging to write. today than it was when I started in news because so much of this information is either one sided or it's favoring one political partisan viewpoint over another. And so for me, it's like, well, look, I have an audience of students. I don't assume they watch the news every day. So my first thing is what are the facts? Just glean the facts. What happened? Is there a new law? What is it? What does it say? And then after you've established what's going on, why people care about it, why it's making news, then we can get into the different perspectives if there's time to talk about, okay, well, this is why supporters of this new law say it's gonna be great. This is why opponents of this new law say it's gonna be awful. But to try to do that in a way that doesn't land on one side or the other, so often, if we're doing a story that has a political, if it's politically charged, if on Monday we cover this story and I say, well, Democrats say this, Republicans say this,

If we revisit that on Wednesday or Thursday, I'll flip the order so that no one party always has the last word. So they're all part of the strategies to start first with the facts, then get into different perspectives, but do so in a way that, look, I don't want people to think I'm leaning one way or another. The only way I can get our audience to trust this show and to back up what we say when we say we're nonpartisan is to make sure we're representing those different viewpoints in a way that doesn't favor one.

Dr. Cam (05:03.511)

I think one of the things that's really hard too is we as adults and as parents have a very polarized view at this point, even if we think we're, I think I'm in the middle. I think I'm rational, but I know I'm not, right? I know for a fact that there's no way I am, right? You kind of pick your side, I guess. I feel like everything has a side, but then what you consume and how you consume it all is done in a way that's towards what you already believe. It's not something where we're open to understanding other sides, right? There's a big issue with that. So how is parents, when we are, even if we want to admit it or not, when we're biased, how do we teach our kids critical thinking and to come up with their own opinions, which again, I think is really hard for parents because they want their kids to have their opinions. There was a lot in there. 

How do we teach our kids to think for themselves in a situation where it's very difficult to think for ourselves?

Carl Azuz (06:34.338)

Well, I don't think there's, personally don't think there's something wrong in a parent sharing, you know, his or her opinion with the child. But that said, when it comes to media literacy, I always encourage our audience to have multiple sources and multiple credible sources. If you go to social media, you look at TikTok and Instagram, some of these folks are very gifted. Some of them, you know, could be journalists or reporters, but there are a lot of people, because anyone can say anything at any time on social media, there are a lot of people who are just, holding up a phone and spouting off a bunch of opinions or maybe some facts that line up on one side of an argument, but ignore the other. And they're becoming incredibly influential. So I'm always telling folks, look, it helps to start with major news organizations you have heard of because a lot of those big organizations, they do have reputations to protect and they want to, as those that are established, they want to make sure that their viewers, their readers, their consumers are trusting them. But to have multiple sources. Never let one organization be all your source for news because as we've talked about as reporters who are human beings increasingly put their opinion or their bias into their reporting, these different networks, it's very difficult at that level unless your whole network has just said, we're going to just explore this side, this is going to be our approach. It's very difficult for them to be nonpartisan or objective when so many people there aren't. And so I'm always encouraging people, young people, have multiple sources, multiple credible sources, get your news from different places, regardless of whether you personally lean left or right, read from both sides. Because oftentimes, the overlap is where the truth is. And to extend that to parents, I would just encourage them to say,

This is why I believe what I do. I mean, I think if parents are transparent, I think that that helps too to say, look, I mean, we're seeing these news, we're seeing these different viewpoints. This is what one side says, this is what another side says. But, you know, I personally believe this and you can make up your own mind. But I think that if parents and teachers did that, that conversation alone can help a student, a young person think critically because they are hearing multiple viewpoints, at least initially without judgment.

And I think that's key to understanding.

Dr. Cam (09:00.437)

That is a very difficult thing to do these days is listen without judgment. feel like judgment is just woven into the conversations at this point. so being able to separate that and wanting our kids to grow up without like we're raising them, I feel like in this very separated world and they're learning to think that way. So how do we have a conversation with them that opens that up and says, okay, here's some signs that we can look at to know that this is very biased or here's some things to think about if you're thinking this way that you could be stuck in a bias, right? So what are some things we can teach them and ourselves?

Carl Azuz (09:40.749)

It’s kind of using my show as an example. If we're covering a controversial story and you're hearing multiple perspectives, I think one thing that helps is to ask them, okay, what did you get out of that? What different opinions did you hear about this subject? I think basically just establishing the fact that there are different arguments, there are different opinions, just to talk about, just in a conversation, I think gets, you know, kind of the wheels turning among young people. mean, one thing on our show, try to, you we want to encourage critical thinking. We want people who watch our show to consume our show to say, look, there are different views on anything and every human idea, human invention, human law, it has pros and cons. There are side effects to the things that we come up with and the solutions that people come up with.

So I think that by watching our show, they'll get a sense of that, whether it's something politically controversial or maybe it's just a new initiative to use AI technology to test local bacteria levels and waterways. Okay, but who's paying for that? Will that impact water bills of people around? Just think in terms of broader, bigger picture so that when you hear about a new invention,

So often I've seen my colleagues in the media get caught up in all the pros. you know, I remember in the early days of self -driving cars and as the technology was developing, you know, there were people who'd get caught up and say, this is the solution. It'll eliminate human error and it'll be greener and cleaner. It'll get everybody where they want to go. And there won't be any accidents and all that stuff. And then as the reality has played out, first of all, it's taken a lot longer than anyone thought to develop that technology. And then of course we've seen in some places where they've gone whole hog on these, there have been some problems, even in parking lots with the self -driving cars themselves at the end of the day, looking to park themselves and struggling with that. So I'm not saying I'm looking to dump on new ideas, but I'm looking to provide what supporters say is going to be great about it, and then what's the critical angle so that they can have those conversations. And extending that to parents, extending that to teachers, to be able to say, what are you getting out of this story? Did you hear something that it sounds like

Here's a problem and here's the one solution and everything's all sorted out. So let's just do that. Or did you hear, wait a minute, some people are saying, let's pump the brakes on this. There are other angles, whether it's the cost of something, whether it's the impact, the side effects it has, like, you you've seen the advertisements for new medications and they always have this list of side effects they give. Correct. Exactly. It's fast, but at least it's there. And so the hope is, you know, to have a show that gives those multiple perspectives that could be used as a jumping off point for parents to say, okay, look, you heard one side that said this, but you heard another side that said this, and if possible, you know, bringing a whole bunch of viewpoints on it. But I want people to have discussions and to think critically about it. And I don't want folks to depend on any one media organization, including my own, as their sole source for information. I think that as people consider different perspectives, especially if those are presented without judgment, we're able to have a conversation about it. And now, I mean, as you and I have discussed, Dr. Kam, I mean, people aren't looking to converse. They're looking to say, this is the reason I believe this, and I want to shut you down. And I'm like, that's not helping the divide we have. That's not going to help us democratically, where, you know, throughout the past, we've always seen whether it's legislation, a new government initiative or whatever, it often moves forward with compromise because neither party has figured all this stuff out. And so hopefully in a small way, our show could be a jumping off point for those discussions.

Dr. Cam (13:30.267)

I love that and I think it's so important to realize that we are looking at, we have to look at multiple sources. And I think there's a lot of distrust with the media these days too. Why do you think that is?

Carl Azuz (13:45.494)

It's fascinating, you're exactly right in saying that. There've been a couple studies over the past couple of years that say Americans' trust in media is either at or close to a record low. So we have seen those studies over and over again. Personally, I believe, having spent my whole career in broadcast media, that it's because opinions have infiltrated broadcasts. And I think to some extent, you've got, again, this isn't a knock on any one network. This is media wide, but I think to some extent, different organizations want to serve specific audiences. They want to say, okay, well, we know that more people on the left or on the right are watching us and they're paying for us. So let's, cover news. That's exciting to them. You look at what you're fed on social media. That's meant to get your click. And so if Facebook, for instance, or TikTok or whatever, if it's learning about you that you always are watching something that's a rant against one party, it wants to feed you that to get the click and to help with their advertising and to show their advertisers that, we can drive you traffic that you're looking for. That's just the world we live in. And so that's why I'm always just like, don't have just one source.

Make sure you are looking to other places so you're getting those contrasting viewpoints.

Dr. Cam (15:09.707)

When let's go into a scenario, because I've heard this a lot, where the parents have one very strong point of view and the teenager has a very strong point of view that is different from the parent. And there's multiple reasons why. I mean, there's a generational thing. There's just a, you're my parent, so I want to disagree with you. This can cause a lot of tension in a household and a lot of shutting down of kids because we're like, you're wrong, right? You're just wrong. I'm the adult, you're wrong. So how do we have these conversations with our kids when they're bringing up situations or saying arguments that just make our skin crawl because it's so opposed to what we believe in? How do we have that conversation? Because this is true with anybody, right? But I think it's really important to be able to do this with our team because we can't just unfollow our team like we do with a lot of people on social media.

So how do we have these conversations where they become more productive and teach them to think critically and not just trying to convince them that we're right and they're wrong?

Carl Azuz (16:15.758)

think first and foremost, it's have the discussion, talk to the kids. mean, like there were a number of studies. I mean, when I was with CNN for a while, I did education reporting in addition to hosting CNN student news and CNN 10. And one conclusion that we saw in so many of these studies, whether it was, you know, risky behavior by teens or teens skipping school or teens dropping out or whatever, one thing we saw in all of these studies, I became a broken record, I was repeating myself, was that those young people who said their parents wouldn't really care either way were far more likely, always by double digits, to engage in the risky behavior, the controversial behavior or whatever it was. Whereas those students who said, my mom, my dad would totally freak out if they caught me doing this, were by double digits less likely. So what that taught me is that parents, teachers, you are influential, you have more influence than you might think you do, even if the kid, know, is contrarian, if we want to borrow a diplomatic term or if, you know, they're just antagonistic. You do have that influence. So I think first of all, is to have those conversations. Don't think, well, you know, so and so will just shut down or that's just how things are. And so I'm not even going to bring it up or I'm going to snipe at the child or the child's going to constantly snipe at me. So first, keep the lines of communication open. 

Second, I think to have a civil discussion in a way that says, listen, I understand where you're coming from. I understand maybe you've heard this or maybe they process, they're processing something they heard at school on TikTok, whatever it might be. And to say, listen, I understand why you would think that, but I want you to think bigger picture here because there is another viewpoint and that viewpoint says A, B and C, or there are side effects to making a law that says everybody must do this. And those side effects include D, E and F.

And I think that conversations like that, especially if they're kept civil, help the child understand, okay, look, dad's not gonna agree with me on this, but I kind of see why other people are saying what they do. At least they were able to have that conversation. And so I think that, you know, that's an important starting point. And I think that goes beyond the parent kid relationship. I'd like to see a classroom, even if 29 students line up on one side of a controversy and one lines up on the other.

I would hope that they could have a civil discussion at the end. Maybe nobody's opinion has changed. That's okay. But to also be able to see, I don't agree with you, dude. I can't see things the way you see them, but I understand where you're coming from. And I don't need to hate you because we're different in that viewpoint.

Dr. Cam (18:57.017)

How do we get there? I think we're modeling not that as adults. We're not modeling that behavior. And to teach it to our kids is a difficult thing when we're not modeling it. So I think being able to listen to somebody else's without feeling the need to convince, because I think we're stuck in convincing mode, right? So how do we even as parents listen to our teens' perspective?

Because our team may have points that we don't know about because they're listening to other resources. I mean, they're tapped in too.

Carl Azuz (19:30.147)

Yes, sure they are. they have so it's not, you know, we're not in an era anymore where you have the family gathered around the evening news for half an hour and then discussing it. It's like people are being flooded with information from the moment they wake up and look at a screen. And so you're exactly right. The parents and teens are dealing with that. But again, I mean, I think that, you know, it comes back to what you're saying about modeling the behavior and there are a number of health reports that we've aired on the world from A to Z that discuss the importance of modeling behavior. you know, it's like, it starts with parents. It's fine for you to consume what you want to consume and have your opinion. But if all your child hears is you grumbling about a political party, can't believe they're doing this, you know, grumbling about a candidate all the time. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's It's not going to encourage the conversations that I think that folks need to be having in a civil way. So I totally agree. think that it does start with modeling that behavior. It does start with sitting down and just having conversations and saying, look, this is where I stand on this. And this is why, because of what, you know, what I grew up or what I saw are because of you and the future and all these other things, but it's all right if you disagree, but just understand that there are other opinions and try to respect them. I think if adults model respect, I think kids are more likely to be susceptible to it and hopefully model that themselves, hopefully have that themselves. But to respect the fact that there are other viewpoints, I think you're right, I think it starts with us.

Dr. Cam (21:11.839)

I want to hit another thing, Carl, that comes up a lot is, I mean, there's a lot of really horrific stories in the news. And like you just said, we're bombarded by it from everywhere and almost makes it sound like this is happening all the time everywhere, right? And so how do we help our kids? Because I've seen this a lot where teenagers now are far more impacted by what's going on in the news than we were growing up when we didn't have, you know, we didn't, had television and we just didn't watch it. And now it's like, you can't even avoid it. How do we help our kids who are actually struggling from anxiety and fear from all these stories that they're being bombarded by?

Carl Azuz (21:56.738)

That is an excellent question. The short answer again, I believe it's so important for parents and students, teens, children, whatever it might be, to converse, to talk about it. Open those lines of communication. Let them know if there's something that's bugging you, if there's something you're struggling with, talk to me about it. Feel like you can talk to me or another parent, a trusted aunt, whoever it might be. But first off, keep those lines of communication open. I think that's so important. And that's what we've seen.

In news, mean, I'm not a psychologist, but we've reported on so many of these psychological studies and they're always like converse and be able to have civil discussions with students. I think that's first and foremost. Another thing too is look at the news sources. If you have a highly partisan organization that's trying to drive people to, and I mean, they do this in the left and the right. So I'm not like picking on one side or another, but they'll try to drive people. to fear and get out there and vote or else they're gonna take away your right to do anything. mean, there's so much of that, so much fear mongering in mass media that I think, you one thing that we try to do on our show is, okay, you know, like Mr. Rogers used to say, look for the helpers. And I'm sorry if I've misquoted that, but the general sense is there. But to find out what's being done to remedy these different things. I remember, you know, when I was reporting on the early days of COVID. I mean, we were, we didn't want to terrify our audience. I my audience in news is very unique and we're looking at middle school students, high school students, it's international. And so I don't want to terrify them. I want to give them a sense of the fact that yeah, there are problems in the world, but there are people working on those problems. If it's big scale geopolitical upheaval, it might help them to hear, there are other countries involved trying to get Russia and Ukraine to have peace talks, Israel and Hamas to have peace talks. But also when it comes to some of these stories, whether it's a new disease that's spreading or something like that, I'm not looking to be a fear monger in this. I'm looking to give them knowledge of the fact that, look, there are people who are finding solutions. There are new medicines being tested out, new treatments being tested out. Some people stay at home, drink a lot of water and that's helping. Whatever it might be, I wanna make sure to include the fact that there are efforts being taken to address the problems they see. And hopefully that'll alleviate a little bit of that anxiety. I'm not saying that we should put trust in every solution that people have instantly as the one size fits all thing. But I think it's important for students to know when they hear about bad things happening, even if it's a plane crash because of a technical problem, what's being done about it? What does the company say? Is the government investigating? Are there efforts being made to solve this and keep it from happening again. I think hearing that, as we always try to include on the world from A to Z, is something that can help with that anxiety.

Dr. Cam (24:55.343)

I love that Carl and I think that is such a great way to shift it from blame, know, the blame and the worry and it's this person's fault and that person's fault and if they had done that too, how are we solving it? Which then it's even can go a little step further and it's like, well, how can we, what can the two of us, me and you, what can we do? Is there anything we can do about it? Is there any groups that we can support? Is there anyone we can donate to? Is there anything?

And now it turns into this proactive, have some control over something and I can do something towards the solution rather than just yelling at somebody that I think is to blame, which does nothing, right? And now I've got, I love that. That really creates that critical thinking. What else have I not asked that parents need to know about talking to kids about the news and being literate with the media?

Carl Azuz (25:52.31)

I mean, one thing I just, I always underscore is to just make sure that you are having those conversations. You do, as I mentioned, have more influence in so many cases than you think you do. And, you know, to encourage your student, look, if you see something on the news that troubles you, we can talk about it, but look for different perspectives on it. Look to see how different major news networks are covering topics.

And one thing I think that's kind of fun to do, especially when it comes to major news networks, and this is, you know, whether it's CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, Fox News, whatever it might be, if you go online during a slow news day, there's not one big overarching international story, right? On a day when there's not a lot going on in the world, if you go online and you just click all the homepages, you can tell so much about these different news organizations and the stories that they prioritize tells you so much about where their leanings might be, where their priorities might be, what stories that they think people really ought to care about when there's not a big central event. And I think that that can help with students understanding students' media literacy, that these different networks bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. I think that those are fascinating things. And I also think when it comes to news, and this is one thing I love about working on the world from A to Z is that it's not all politics. It's not all tragedy and war and gloom and doom and missing planes and horrible things. Yes. Well, in many cases it does. think, you I would argue for a student audience, you know, especially where teachers are the gatekeepers in a homeschool environment, parents are the gatekeepers. I would argue that they do want a variety. They want young people to see that there is a breadth.

Dr. Cam (27:25.495)

But that's what sells.

Carl Azuz (27:42.7)

to news that includes sometimes the news is some dude setting a Guinness World Record by bungee jumping off a bridge to dip a biscuit in tea. I mean, that was an actual Guinness World Record I reported on years ago. And so sometimes goofy things like that make news. Sometimes there's a dog that goes viral because it can't stop sneezing. And so like, you know, that's fun to look at. Sometimes there are events, you know, we've recovered a fashion show in a slum in Nigeria where the designer is like, I wanna open people's minds. I grew up in this slum. And now I wanna open people's minds up to the broader world. As a fashion designer, I'm able to have an outfit on the back of someone in a far flung place. And yet I'm showing that off right here in the slum where I grew up. We've had so many different international components and slice of life, cultural components that give students a sense of it's a big, broad, colorful world. And there are a lot of people doing things that might not directly impact laws in the United States and might not directly impact what you drive or the doctor you see or how you vote or whatever that might be, but they show you how people are coping. They show you how people are celebrating. They show you how people are interacting with each other. I think that's so important for students to see to have a well -rounded view of news and media in general. And also to kind of know that, you know, there are so many things going on outside our own bubble. And I think it's important for them to see that, that in some places, you know, well, there many countries where people aren't allowed to vote, or if they do, it's kind of rigged to begin with, okay, how are they coping? What are they doing? Do they have things they celebrate or festivals or, you know, events that they can get involved in? I think that a show that portrays all of that helps students just to kind of get outside their own community and their own locked mindset that we build around ourselves and to have hope.

Dr. Cam (29:41.525)

Yeah. I love that. And it gives them an opportunity to just widen their world perspective too, which makes us have more tolerance towards people that are different than us. And I think that's extremely important too, to see that and to balance because we do, if we just looked at the news and the stories, it would sound like the world is just shot and everyone is evil or weird. And that's scary, right? Instead of going, there's actually, that's a small percentage, hopefully, of what's going on. We're just focused on that, but there's so much more. Carl.

Carl Azuz (30:14.168)

Dr. Cam, I you raise a good point. And one thing I would add to that to kind of illustrate what we're talking about is in today's show, we had a story about Ukraine, obviously Ukraine and Russia being involved in a full scale war since 2022. And we can cover that big headline and many major media organizations will major on that headline, major on the violence, destruction and death and that sort of thing. We had a slice of life piece where Yes, we acknowledge that this has been going on and why it started and what different people say about it, but then it goes into students attending school underground. And what is that like? How are they coping? And obviously, how do you, there are no windows in the schools. They painted all the walls bright colors. They have teachers focusing and teachers teaching students, look, we have to do the best we can with what we have each day. This is it. This is a lesson. Let's focus on this. Let's learn. Let's get this education, despite the fact. that there might be bombs falling nearby above ground. It's an underground school. think just seeing that, seeing how people are coping in the worst of circumstances can hopefully inspire us in much better circumstances here in the United States where things are generally peaceful outside our doors. I think stories like that can make people grateful can help people see how others are coping, how other people, their lives are going on. They're still managing to get an education despite tremendous adversity they're facing in places like Ukraine or Afghanistan or anywhere else. And I think that just seeing that helps students get outside, maybe their comfort zone a little bit, but also, you know, the perspective they have every single day that, know what, maybe we should be grateful or this is better here or, you know,

Obviously we're mad about all these politics and all these other things. There are some people who have it worse and yet are still getting an education like I am. I think that does something for a student's perspective.

Dr. Cam (32:14.999)

It's so important to get a perspective like that too, because I think it's very easy to compare yourself to the person right next to you and you forget that there's so much more going on in the world where even the person next to you, you've got so much more than so many other people. And I think it's hard to get that perspective. Especially again, when you're following on social media and everyone has more than you, you start feeling like you have nothing, right? That's hard.

Carl Azuz (32:42.69)

Right, absolutely. We are in two places. Our homepage is worlda -z .org. And that's where I think the bulk of our viewership is at worlda -z .org. We encourage people, you you can sign up for a daily email that gives you a newsletter. It just gives you a preview of what's coming in each day's show. Any announcements we have, like if we're off the air for Labor Day or something like that, we let folks know. So that's where you can watch the show. You can sign up for the newsletter. You can request a shout out for your class.

Dr. Cam (32:43.691)

So how do we find your show?

Carl Azuz (33:12.938)

And then we're also on YouTube at youtube .com slash at the world A to Z. You need that little ad in there, but it's youtube .com slash at the world A to Z. And that's where people can also subscribe and watch there. And if they subscribe, they'll get the little notification when each new show posts. But that's where, you know, we'd love to see you. We'd love to get your feedback, which you can send us through our homepage. And we love to hear how people are watching and consuming the world from A to Z.

Dr. Cam (33:39.081)

I love it. I'm going to show that to my daughter who's actually a news junkie. She tells me what's going on in the world because I am not a news junkie. But doing that, but even having something where at the dinner table you just say, hey, what interesting story came up. That's not like who got the most strangest, bizarre or happy story or anything like that would be fun and kind of teach kids to dig a little bit deeper too than just the headline.

Carl Azuz (34:06.442)

Exactly. One of the most gratifying pieces of feedback I've received is that, you know, when students are watching our show, parents will come to us and say, my kid can discuss the news at the dinner table. My kid brought up an event that happened in some far flung place that we were able to discuss at the dinner table. That is an incredibly fulfilling thing that I'm grateful to have heard more than once. And I

You know, I'm excited to work on a show, grateful to work on a show like The World from A to Z that allows me to bring that to young people.

Dr. Cam (34:39.637)

That's great and such a better topic than how was school today. No kid wants to answer that question. Carl, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it.

Carl Azuz (34:44.11)

It's a start! It's a start!

Carl Azuz (34:53.89)

Dr. Cam, it's been a pleasure. Thank you and thank you for everything you're doing to help make things better. 

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together.

#ParentingTeens #MediaLiteracy #CriticalThinking #DrCamCaswell

Is your high-achieving teen secretly battling self-doubt? 😔 Mental health expert Jason Phillips joins Dr. Cam—The Teen Translator—in this powerful episode to decode the hidden struggles of perfectionist teens. Learn how to support your teen without adding pressure, embrace failure as growth, and balance achievement with well-being. Get actionable strategies to build their confidence and foster a positive self-perception, as Jason and Dr. Cam unpack self-doubt, academic pressure, burnout, and teen anxiety.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE

5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS

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About the Show:

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam: Welcome back, parents! Today, we're diving into how to support high-achieving teens through self-doubt and burnout. Many teens push themselves to the limit but still feel like they aren't measuring up, even though their parents see their amazing potential. It's frustrating when parents try to help, but their words seem to have the opposite effect. To help us unpack this, I’ve invited Jason Phillips, a therapist and mental health expert who specializes in guiding high achievers to overcome self-doubt and build real confidence. Jason has worked with Fortune 500 companies, law firms, and universities, and today he’s here to help us understand how to support our teens through perfectionism. Welcome, Jason!

Jason Phillips: Thanks for having me, Dr. Cam. I'm excited to have this conversation!

Dr. Cam: So, Jason, tell us about your journey. How did you end up focusing on helping high achievers?

Jason Phillips: It really happened organically. After graduating from the University of Michigan, I worked with military populations at the Ann Arbor VA and later served as the clinic chief at Fort Bragg. Over time, I noticed that corporate executives and leaders were drawn to my approach because I specialize in helping them overcome anxiety. That led me to helping high achievers break free from self-doubt and build confidence.

Dr. Cam: That’s amazing. It’s so ironic that high achievers often struggle with self-doubt. From the outside, they seem so confident, yet many of them are riddled with anxiety. I see this a lot with the teens I work with, too. They’re getting straight A’s and excelling, but they still feel like they’re not enough. Their parents tell me that no matter how much they express their love and support, it doesn’t seem to help. So, where do you think this drive for achievement comes from?

Jason Phillips: A lot of it comes from external pressures—parents, teachers, peers. I can relate to that pressure myself. I was a high achiever growing up, constantly pushed to excel. While straight A's were celebrated, they came with their own anxiety, because I felt like I couldn’t ever drop below that standard. External pressures, even from well-meaning sources like teachers and family, can make teens feel like they have to be perfect. That’s often where the self-doubt begins.

Dr. Cam: That’s such an important point. Parents want to encourage their teens and help them live up to their potential, but the way they say things can sometimes have the opposite effect. How can parents motivate their teens without adding pressure?

Jason Phillips: The key is to make room for failure. When we constantly tell our teens how great they are, they might think anything less than perfection means they’re failing. Allowing them to fail is essential, as it helps them see that mistakes are just part of the learning process. They need to understand that not being perfect doesn’t mean they’re not enough.

Dr. Cam: I love that. It’s one thing to allow failure, but I try to encourage my teen to embrace it. The idea is that failing at something difficult means you’re pushing beyond your comfort zone, which is where true growth happens. So, it’s not about being perfect; it’s about challenging yourself and learning from those challenges. What do you think about that approach?

Jason Phillips: Absolutely. Embracing failure is one of the best ways to help teens develop resilience. By pushing themselves outside their comfort zone, they’ll encounter setbacks, but that’s where growth truly occurs. It’s about focusing on what you tried, not just whether you succeeded or failed.

Dr. Cam: Exactly! And that mindset shift can make all the difference. Thanks so much for sharing this insight, Jason. It’s such a helpful perspective for parents trying to support their teens.

Jason Phillips: I don't know if you're into exercise or weightlifting, Dr. Cam, but there's this term where you'll ask, how many reps are we doing? Ten, twenty? And sometimes it's until failure, which means pushing yourself until you can't anymore.

Jason Phillips: Because we know that's when the growth happens. It's not in staying in a comfort zone. I want you to push yourself to failure until you just can't do anymore.

Jason Phillips: And then we've got kids who are constantly pushing themselves and never feel like it's enough. How do we balance that, where it's okay to be just okay and not amazing at everything? How do we communicate that without making them feel like we just think they're okay?

Jason Phillips: It goes back to balance. As much as we want to push to failure, we also need time for rest. We can't just go, go, go, or we'll get exhausted and burned out. We need to carve out time to relax, watch TV, play video games, or sleep in.

Jason Phillips: Make sure you're not just filling your calendar with things you have to do. You can put so much on there and never feel done.

Dr. Cam: I want to emphasize that because I see a lot of parents who don't understand why their kids feel that way, but when you look at their schedules, they're packed. Every time the kids try to relax or scroll through TikTok, they hear, "You're being unproductive."

Dr. Cam: You can't do that. If you have time for that, you have time for this. You should be doing this, doing that. We have this belief that we need to be productive 24/7, and that’s exhausting. It leads to burnout. We need to prioritize sleeping in and taking naps. Why is that so hard for us to prioritize?

Jason Phillips: For high achievers, it’s almost like feeling guilty—what am I missing or not doing? You're good at so many things, but just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. We need to incorporate rest, too. Parents need to be mindful and let kids pick a couple of things, but not everything.

Jason Phillips: Parents really have to model that same confidence and boundaries. If mom and dad are constantly stretched thin, saying yes to everything, how can we expect our kids to do otherwise? When we model it, it's much easier for them to follow.

Dr. Cam: Yeah, modeling is huge. And when we see our kids doing different things, we often need to look in the mirror and ask, "What are we modeling?" Often parents say, "My teen is amazing, but they have no self-esteem. They think they're not good at anything." How do we help them see their value when anything we say gets an eye roll?

Jason Phillips: One thing I encourage is asking your teen what they could help someone else do. How could they mentor someone younger? That often builds genuine self-confidence. The second thing is to give less advice. Instead, listen more to figure out where the disconnect is.

Dr. Cam: That’s so important and one of the hardest things for parents because we have so much wisdom to share, and we finally have an audience—but they don’t want to hear it. It’s frustrating.

Dr. Cam: Instead of getting frustrated, be thrilled that your kid feels confident enough to figure it out on their own. That’s a plus! So, what do you think about asking your teen for advice?

Jason Phillips: Yeah, it’s a huge plus. It builds trust. When you ask your teen for advice, it shows them that their thoughts are valued. It lets them know they have something insightful to add to the conversation. Teens probably have a lot of wisdom we’re not tapping into, and by listening to their advice and implementing it, it does wonders for them.

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The L is for listen. Listen to what they're saying because there may be some disconnect. If they say they're not good at something, you can highlight all the awards and trophies, but you can’t do that first without listening. Be objective. Don’t put so much pressure on what they're saying. Don’t judge whether it’s bad or good. Listen objectively and have a neutral space.

The V is for validate. You want to validate their feelings and thoughts. If they feel a certain way, don’t try to immediately take it away or say it's nonsense. Maybe they’re having a hard day or feeling insecure. Validate that with empathy.

Once you do that, they’ll be in a place where they can be more vulnerable, and then you can point out what they’re missing. They might be putting a lot of pressure on themselves and thinking they're not enough.

Dr. Cam (33:43.278):

If your teen says something like that or rolls their eyes, it’s a sign you need to go to the LOVE approach.

Jason Phillips (34:52.022):

Dr. Cam (35:28.396):

Jason Phillips (36:35.413):

Secondly, encourage them to practice saying good things about themselves. It’s like an elevator pitch where they get to talk about themselves in a positive way. We're often uncomfortable because we’ve never been taught to do it. We're so used to others speaking highly of us, but we haven’t taken the time to say something positive about ourselves. It's not bragging; it's just being honest.

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#HighAchievingTeens #TeenConfidence

In this heartfelt and insightful episode, Dr. Cam sits down with Heather Hester, founder of Chrysalis Mama and host of the "Just Breathe" podcast, to discuss the journey of parenting an LGBTQ+ teen. Heather shares her personal experience with her son Connor’s coming out at 16 and how it inspired her mission to support parents of LGBTQ+ teens. In this conversation, Heather offers valuable advice on how to navigate your emotions, avoid common pitfalls, and create a safe, inclusive space for your teen.

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Top 5 Takeaways for Parents of Teens

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Help others discover this episode by leaving a rating and review! Your feedback means the world to me and allows us to bring even more valuable insights to parents like you. Don’t forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 

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About the Show:

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

Chapters

00:00 Navigating the Challenges of Raising LGBTQ+ Teens

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:02.402)

Heather Hester (00:44.509)

Dr. Cam (00:47.016)

Heather Hester (01:03.539)

Dr. Cam (03:14.955)

Heather Hester (03:26.227)

Dr. Cam (03:42.338)

Heather Hester (03:57.507)

Dr. Cam (05:55.096)

Heather Hester (06:15.399)

Heather Hester (she/her) (15:03.131)

Dr. Cam (15:38.51)

Heather Hester (she/her) (15:38.51)

Dr. Cam (15:56.036)

Heather Hester (16:14.001)

Dr. Cam (16:28.365)

Heather Hester (16:42.303)

Dr. Cam (16:35.182)

One thing as you, yeah, one thing when you're thinking about that too, and I think we find, I actually think that's a bigger plus of the social media talking to teens. A lot of them have found that that has actually saved their lives because they have found community and support where they can't find it in real life. The other thing is from what I hear too is that it's not that they come to them and change their mind. It's that they find the people that they relate to and then explain who they are. And that's why they're drawn. So parents see it as a cause this way. And really it's a cause of I'm finding you because I already feel this way. And now you're explaining to me how I feel and showing that I'm not alone and that there's others like me. And so you're not changing me. You're helping me accept me. And that's what I see a lot.

Heather Hester (17:05.885)

Correct. Correct. That is a thousand percent correct. And that was so beautifully the way you just said that was perfect because that is it. That is it. I kids are, and I think about, know, even going back to Connor, which was 2017, a while ago, but that he was out there because he felt he couldn't come to us.

He was so scared to say anything to anyone that he was looking things up. He was trying to get answers to the questions of, this is how I'm feeling. And we want to be part of that process because the flip side is there are a lot of dangerous things out there. There are a lot of dangerous people out there who are preying on our kids. So if we are not having these conversations with them and and acknowledging like, this is actually a great thing that you've found this community and you've found these people where you do feel like it is so validating of who you are and where you can ask questions because there are a lot of questions that we can't answer as cisgendered, know, straight people. So that is a great, great thing. And we want to make sure it's safe. So that's, again, a reason to have that open communication to encourage like, okay, hey, I'm learning right along with you and I want to know and this isn't a bad thing at all.

Dr. Cam (18:59.554)

Yeah, I think as you're saying this, we come from a place of wanting to keep them safe by trying to talk them out of it. When that is actually shutting them down and in a way becoming their number one bully because we're turning away who they are. And it prevents us from being able to help protect them because now they don't trust us. Rather than saying, okay, this is who you are. How do you be who you are out in the world? and how do you keep yourself as you out in the world? And one thing you will always, always know is that I've got your back. And man, that is what helps kids make it through mentally because we go, my gosh, this has such a negative impact on their mental health. Well, the number one reason is when their parents reject them is why. So if we accept them, we can help them become more resilient.

Heather Hester (19:50.003)

Correct. Correct.

Dr. Cam (19:56.472)

to the people that aren't gonna accept him. And yeah, there's gonna be a lot of people out there that are going to be cruel. We just don't wanna be one of them.

Heather Hester (20:03.751)

Yes, correct, correct. And realizing our speech, there's a lot of work that goes into changing our speech and the words that we use that we don't even realize are hurtful or harmful. And I think that can be very difficult to, there's a lot of work that we have to do as parents and unlearning some of those, very deeply ingrained either beliefs or slang that we use, all of these things that we now, it is very important to your point to be aware of, to shift so that we aren't that bully, so we aren't that reason that our child is struggling with mental health because...they do have the world that's gonna come at them. So they need their home, their parents, their people to be, this needs to be like the safety nest, like 100,000 % safe, open, and just this warm, cozy place that they learn then how to build the resilience and build those tools that they're gonna need to go out in the world and handle all the things that come at them.

Dr. Cam (21:33.142)

Yeah. And I think, and we mentioned before, and I'm like replaying stuff that has happened, you know, in my life as well with being curious and wanting to show support without question, but also being a little selfish in asking questions and depending on them to relay my, to inform me and to educate me and being offended if they took what I said the wrong way and saying, well, that's not what I meant, rather than going, let me go learn as much as I can. And let me ask you if I can ask questions, because I do have questions that I want to understand. And also making it all about that. And all of a sudden, was their identity became just about that for a while while we settled in. which was unfair and I'm glad we're past that point where that's not the identity. But it was for a long time and I feel bad about that because I know a lot of it was me because of my curiosity. So how do we support them, show them we support them, but allow them to be them without making it all of it? You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Heather Hester (22:54.503)

All of it, yeah, absolutely, 100 % of their identity, absolutely. Well, I think you already really kind of hit the really important parts, which are go do your own work, go do your own learning, figure out the places. There's so many books, websites, articles, professionals that are factual. And that's also another very important piece of this is really that I've worked really hard these past eight years to like the facts. Like that's what I've been, I just want to know what is factual, what is true, what is correct, because there is a lot of stuff out there, right? So doing that work on your own. And then again, to your point, coming to them and asking, you know, saying, I have been learning, I've been reading, and I have questions.

Is it okay if I ask you the questions? Are you okay with answering some questions? I know it's kind of weird. Whatever your, I mean, your relationship is going to shift and grow in a way that you never imagined it would, I promise you, and in such a great positive way. I will also say that it is very normal for both your child and for you to go, there is a piece of this like, coming out process that is the identity is 100%. They are gay, are bi, they are non-binary, are fill in the blank, right? And that is super normal that there is a time where everything revolves around that because they're trying to get their footing and we're trying to get our footing. I think the fine line in there, the happy space in there is that we're allowing them to kind of bounce around and do their figuring out. And while also knowing that we are a safe space for them to come to that we are happy to get the supports in place that they need. Right. And we are doing our own work. Right. So they're not failing this extra like, I've got to take care of mom. Like mom's going to come ask me a hundred questions today. You know, that whole, we do not want that.

Dr. Cam (25:13.76)

Yeah, I think the big one and I know what helped me a lot was to focus more on the nephew I've always known and the person I've always known rather than this new piece of identity, but focus on them. And so that is really, and it was hard at first because it was hard to see past this new, because my mind had to shift. a lot and old brains are harder to shift. My daughter used to get so mad at me because I would muggle up and just use the wrong pronouns all the time and my daughter would get so mad at me because she changed like that. I'm like, I'm struggling. I'm trying so hard. And so I said to my nephew, I go, please, I'm going to mess up. I know I'm going to mess up.

Heather Hester  (26:08.093)

Absolutely.

Dr. Cam (26:10.488)

pointed out and they said, he said, just don't make a big deal out of it when you do. Like you don't have to make a big deal out of it. Just go on and it's fine. Because I would be like, my God, I'm so sorry. And they're like, don't, don't, just go on.

Heather Hester (26:24.691)

Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly, exactly right. And I think people are, you know, they would much rather that we try and make mistakes and, you know, mess up than not try at all, then just shut down, then just like be so afraid of, and they are, especially if they're teenagers, they're going to get impatient and they're going to snap at us, but they're going to do that regardless. Like this isn't because they're gay, they're snapping at us because they're teenagers and that's what teenagers do. Exactly, like this is, they are learning all of these developmentally like things that every teenager goes through, Developmentally. And on top of that, they're learning how to manage their sexual orientation or their gender identity on top of that. So there's a lot going on.

Dr. Cam (27:01.518)

They're learning to regulate their emotions.

Heather Hester  (27:23.505)

that holding space for that and allowing them just to be messy and all of that is really important and such a great thing. like it's not a lot, but it is so much to be able to do that. And you had said something about at the beginning of that. I don't remember what it was. It was something that triggered a thought, but it was so good on how to respond and how to kind of, guess, again, hold space for your person and just recognize that they are growing and changing and going through all of these things all at once. So not being overly sensitive to, yeah.

Dr. Cam (28:05.677)

I was gonna say because the other thing is, and I was talking about the pronouns, there's pronouns, name changes, the pronouns went through a phase of different, like there was a phase of different pronouns being used and things like that and names and things like that. And parents I see will roll their eyes, they'll get offended, well that's the name I gave you, I'm not gonna change that, that I'm mourning the loss of.

Heather Hester  (28:38.023)

Yes.

Dr. Cam (28:50.488)

How do we navigate and those feelings are real and that sense of loss is real. You raised a straight boy for years and now all of a sudden your child is not a straight boy, right? And so you do mourn the loss of that and what your, but it's not a loss of your child. It's a loss of your expectations of that child. So let's be real first of all.

Heather Hester  (28:57.318)

Absolutely.

Dr. Cam (29:19.884)

Those expectations were not fair and might not have lived out anyway. So how do we let go of these expectations in that feeling of loss without putting it on our kids?

Heather Hester  (29:24.083)

Correct. So completely normal. And I think absolutely necessary, actually, to go through, I call it the movie reel, the explosion of the movie reel, because that's how I visualized it in my head when I realized what was going on. And it is such a normal thing that a parent needs to go through, again, with a professional, with trusted adult with a friend, not with their child. This is not their stuff. This is not about them. This is about your stuff, right? And it's valid stuff. It's very valid. Yes, you did name your child that. Yes, you did, you know, use the pronouns he. And now your child wants to use the pronouns they or she or he, she, they, or it is fluid.

And here's, and this is the other thing that I thought of a little bit ago is the idea of being fluid, whether it's, you whether it is with gender or with sexuality. It is something that our kids are able, and first of all, something that has been since the beginning of time. So this is not a new thing that has just popped up in the past five years. This has been historically documented since the beginning of time.

Second, our kids are so good at just rolling with it. We and our generation and I think generations kind of around us are so connected to the binary and so connected to being able to check a box and really connected to these finite ideas, whereas our kids are not. And so for them, it's not that they're changing their mind. It's not that they're making a choice. It's not these things that are like very concrete ideas in our brains, they are able to really explore the possibilities of like, I'm feeling this, like this is what I'm connecting with. This does not really have a name or a label or a thing. So I'm gonna try to connect it to something you understand, adult person in my life, right? And so there is that kind of what seems like a breakdown in communication, but they are really actually trying to communicate as best they can their experience. And so it becomes again for us, another layer of the work to, and this was a hard one for me. Like this took a lot of, not that I was like angry or mad about it, but just like realizing how much of this was stuck in there of the binary of needing to have a box of being like, you know, kind of bumping back up against stuff and being like, why is this stuck in my vernacular? Like, why do I keep defaulting to this, you know, using these three words over here? So give yourself some grace knowing that this this isn't something that you just decide, well, I'm going to do the work, which Bravo, thank you. But know that that work is going to take time and you are going to mess up and you are going to make mistakes. And you're going to have to pick yourself back up and dust yourself off and be like, all right, I'm just going to keep doing this because I want to show up for my kid. I want to show up for the people in my life who I love. I want to keep evolving as a human being.

Dr. Cam (33:14.794)

Sorry, I think what is very difficult to is when and you were talking about, know the boxes We do as adults get very set in social norms and a lot of them are social norms We fought against when we were younger Before we were like set in stone that this is the way it needs to be and now we're trying very hard to Mold and box our kids up into social norms that we have accepted which by the way have changed drastically over the years and will continue to change drastically. So they are not law, they are social norms, but we are so stuck to them that we are sure we are right. And we are so convinced and we choose social norms, things that have been told to us that are different all over the world, but we choose those over listening and believing our kids.

Heather Hester  (33:47.005)

Yes.

Dr. Cam (34:10.606)

accepting our kids for who they are. And I think we need to really look at our social norms more important to us than our kids and allowing them to be their authentic selves. And some people I know are going to choose social norms. And I get that there are people that just are not able to let go of that. But for the people that can look at and accept their kids and want their kids to be authentically real because all of us want our kids to be happy. Kids are not going to be happy molding themselves to try to fit social norms that they don't fit into. They are going to be happy being accepted for who they are.

Heather Hester (34:39.527)

Yeah. Right. And I would say to that point, our kids, their, and kids just from all of time want to make their parents happy. They want, they want the love of their parents, right? So they're going to do whatever they can to get that love. So if, you know, people are saying, well, my child did do what I told them to do, or did, you know, say, well, it was a choice or it was a phase or it was this.

Dr. Cam (35:01.195)

100%.

Heather Hester (35:20.059)

I have to stop and question that because how much of that was your child wanting to be loved? And I say that coming from a place of I did that for the greater part of 35 years of my life wanting that from my parents, right? So like twisting myself and knots and knots and knots until I realized like, no, like that doesn't that's not who I am, that doesn't work for me. And then having to do all the work to untwist, right? And knowing that that is also possible, right? That that is possible to do.  Our child, our children. just need us to love them unconditionally for who they are. And yes, that might cause you some discomfort. And yes, that might cause fractures in other relationships in your lives or a separation from societal norms that you are comfortable with. But it's something that I really encourage people to sit with and think about at the end of the day. What is more important, having that relationship with your child, being able to have your child walk into the world as who they authentically are now instead of 20 years from now or 30 years from now? What is most important to you? And really examining that. that takes courage to do that.

Dr. Cam (37:02.382)

It takes a lot of courage and I think there there's definitely a piece where people feel like well, this isn't the kid I wanted I wanted a This kid or I wanted a this kid and you know I'm trying to make them into this kid because that's what I wanted and I think that is a very unfair thing because you're given the kid that you're given just as they are given the parent that they are given and

Heather Hester (37:27.997)

Right, exactly.

Dr. Cam (37:30.71)

You are the parent that they were given. So our goal is to be the best parent for them that we can be if we want to be, you know, and I think that's hard for a lot of, it is, it's hard for a lot of people to accept this is the child that I have.

Heather Hester  (37:38.043)

Exactly/ Well, and I think there are two, you know, it is very, very difficult and I'm kind of trying to take a moment with that to respond wisely. Because I see such an opportunity in that for growth. Not only within allowing your child to really show up in the world as who they are, but for you to be able to pause and say, a second, like this is actually really cool. Look how much I can learn about this over here that I never even imagined I would have the opportunity to learn about in such an up close and personal way. Look at, you know, the direction that this is moving my life, right, in a way that I never imagined that it would move. And, you know, again, to your point, I do understand that it is difficult to let go of the expectation but it's also kind of what we sign up for when we decide to become parents is.

Dr. Cam (39:12.494)

I think what I'm finding too is the movie that we create for our kids future, right? Which we may do based on what we want. A, no matter what, there's no guarantee any of that's gonna ever happen. So we need to stop trying to get our kids to play out the role that we've created for them. I think also when we let it play out, it goes beyond anything we are capable of imagining.

Heather Hester (39:34.685)

Correct.

Dr. Cam (39:42.446)

And I just see all of the kids, my daughter and my nieces and my nephews living a life that would never have been any of it, what I specifically would have imagined for them. they're so much better than what I came up with, right? And they're doing beautifully and they're authentic and happy and they still struggle and there's still things that are problems and their life is not perfect because God doesn't want, we don't have perfect lives. They still have a lot of those, but that's part of the life and the fact that they all are able to turn to one another and to us. And there's a support system there that no matter what they go through, they know they've got people behind them is the most magical thing that I can see with the family.

Heather Hester (40:33.233)

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think there's that piece of realizing that control is an illusion. And so the fact that we think we can control our kids and we can control the outcome of their lives is not, right? So the sooner we realize like, we have these little beings and like, What are their passions? What do they love? What do they want to, you what did they, how do they see the world? Right? What are they imagining? And, you know, exactly to your point and kind of at the same time, allowing that movie reel we created, it needs to fall apart. It needs to fall away. So doing the work that we have to do to be like, okay, yeah, I did create that. And I, I really did love that outcome for whatever reason. those things for whatever reason. And I'm gonna be okay with letting it go because I see my kid over here and my gosh, they're so happy. And they're so just like experiencing life in a way that I never imagined it could be experienced. they're human, they're human, right? So they're having the whole human experience. And which means there are gonna always be struggles, there are gonna always be peaks and valleys and all of that because that's part of being human.

Dr. Cam (42:04.652)

Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. job is not to protect them from themselves or from the world. Our job is to support them and let them know they can handle whatever comes their way. And we're going to be there for them.

Heather Hester  (42:17.195)

Exactly. Yep. Teaching resilience, teaching, you know, yeah, that they can do this. They can go out there in that big world and do it. you know, at the of the day, we're always here to be a listening ear, to do what needs to be done, right?

Dr. Cam (42:39.118)

So Heather, how do people find you, particularly if they're looking for support?

Heather Hester  (42:46.083)

Absolutely. Yes. So I, my website is the best way to find me. You can contact me right through there through the contact page. It's chrysalismama.com, which is C-H-R-Y-S-A-L-I-S-M-A-M-A.com. I think that is really the best way that you can find me. The podcast is Just Breathe, Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen, and that is everywhere podcasts are. So that is a good way just to listen in. But yes, reaching out to me directly. I love when people reach out. I love talking with other parents and working with other parents. so bring it on.

Dr. Cam (43:32.97)

I love it. And what is the one takeaway you want parents to have from this conversation?

Heather Hester  (43:39.685)

my goodness. I think kind of the thread we have been pulling this entire time, which is it doesn't need to be difficult. Just love them, love them unconditionally and really embracing and understanding that that meaning of unconditional love and just holding that space for them. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (44:05.824)

I love it. Thank you so much for joining us, Heather.

Heather Hester  (44:08.989)

Thank you so much for having me. 

In this powerful episode, Dr. Cam and Jamie Edelbrock explore the challenges of parenting teens, from managing anxiety and depression to overcoming parental guilt. Jamie shares her personal journey of advocating for her child, building trust, and embracing the power of connection over control. Discover practical strategies for balancing guidance with independence, prioritizing your own well-being, and creating a safe space for your teen to be their authentic self. This is the essential conversation every parent of a teenager needs to hear!

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE

5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS

Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! 

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Jamie's Books:

EPISODE CHAPTERS: 

00:00 Introduction to Mental Health Advocacy for Parents

02:58 Personal Experiences with Teen Anxiety and Depression

05:59 Navigating Parental Guilt and Finding Support in Parenting

09:04 Building Trust and Effective Communication with Teens

11:51 Why Letting Go Is Crucial for Parenting Teenagers

15:00 Finding Joy and Fulfillment in Parenting Teens

18:02 Balancing Teen Freedom with Parental Responsibility

21:04 The Impact of Worry on Parent-Teen Relationships

24:00 Encouraging Authenticity and Self-Expression in Your Child

26:49 Trusting the Parenting Process and Letting Go of Perfection

30:49 Building Strong, Supportive Relationships with Your Teen

36:44 The Importance of Parental Self-Care for Mental Health

42:41 Empowering Your Teen Through Autonomy and Independence

48:56 The Power of Connection Over Control in Parenting Teens

55:57 Embracing Imperfection in Parenting Teenagers

CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Jamie Edelbrock

CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:02.259):

Jamie Edelbrock (00:43.342):

Dr. Cam (01:50.053):

Jamie Edelbrock (02:04.65):

Dr. Cam (02:18.843):

Jamie Edelbrock (02:31.725):

Dr. Cam (03:12.809):

Jamie Edelbrock (03:37.718):

Dr. Cam (03:51.806):

Jamie Edelbrock (04:07.102):

Dr. Cam (04:45.343):

Jamie Edelbrock (05:01.482):

Dr. Cam (05:44.549) 

You spend your life advocating for mental health, focused on your children's mental health, yet you're not able to escape it. Parents feel guilty, shameful, like they're failing. But you're evidence that no matter what you do, We can't always avoid it. So what did you go through processing it as a mom?

Jamie Edelbrock (06:22.614) 

Automatically I thought, I'm doing something wrong. I know all the tips, tools, tricks. She has a good life. We have this set up for her to succeed. I'm doing something wrong. Then I started going back, mom guilt. Maybe I shouldn't have yelled, or done this. That's not the case.

I think the first thing besides getting her immediate professional help was getting myself help and professional help and realizing that it's not my fault. I've learned that through therapy. It can be environmental, but it's usually brain chemicals. It runs in our family. While thinking, "what did I do wrong?" I talked to my aunt and learned it runs deep. That was an important key. It's not my fault. Getting her help says you're doing something right. We halted our world, got her what she needed, and got the help I needed. Then I started researching, knowing it's literally her brain chemicals.

It's literally how her body and brain are working and something isn't right there. So realizing it's not our fault. We made changes in our lifestyle to help her and us.

Dr. Cam (08:42.815) 

My heart goes out to you. Parents start parenting from fear. They want to prevent their child from going through something, or they don't want anything to happen on their watch. They become hyper-vigilant, constantly asking, "are you okay?" Kids say, "I'd be fine if my parents would just leave me alone." Parents can't let go, building a wall and distrust. Kids don't feel like they can be their authentic selves. How do we manage that fear and the sense that something's wrong without kids opening up?

Jamie Edelbrock (10:01.154) 

We've definitely gone through that. I worry, I'm a fixer. I wanted to protect her, but she made it clear that's not helpful. I need to trust her.

As hard as it is, trusting your kids after an event like this, they want to live their happy life. Learning to trust her and that she will tell me if something happens was helpful. Putting other adults in their life is huge because sometimes they don't want to talk to us. She'd say, "I don't like seeing you cry. I don't like hurting you." I had to work on that, get a therapist. Putting other adults in her life was huge. She has a therapist, psychiatrist, trusted adults, friends, and the suicide hotline. I cling to the fact that during her darkest times, she did tell me.

And so I cling to that. Anytime she's ever been in trouble, she has come to me. Releasing that and trusting them, knowing it'll come back to you, is healthier. You're opening up that road for them to come. If you cling, you're putting a roadblock up.

I've learned to trust they'll tell me.

Dr. Cam (12:56.831) 

Parents struggle most with letting go and trust. They fear, "if I do and something happens, I'm never going to forgive myself." We focus on what we need to feel okay, disregarding what our kids need. How do we live with that fear and discomfort to give our kids what they need to heal?

Jamie Edelbrock (13:39.242) 

I have a phrase: "It's not about me." That's hard because it feels like it is. When they're going through anything, I automatically think, "how is this gonna look? This hurts me. What is this gonna say about us, about our family, about me as a parent?" Especially as an advocate. Having kids do something my old community wouldn't agree with, "what are people gonna say?" I have to freeze and say, "it's not about me." My focus is my children, making sure they are their truest, best, and healthiest selves. It's putting your ego aside and asking, "how can I help you thrive?" That's our job. That saying helps

Dr. Cam (15:17.533) 

It's true and hard to let go. When it's our kids, they are not an extension of us. We often parent as if they are representing us. We are responsible for who they become. We are responsible for being the parent they need to become who they are. It's difficult to see we're not molding them. We are supporting and influencing them and their choices, but we are not controlling that. When they're going down dark paths, it's our job to be there, not to stop them.

That is a very difficult thing for parents to hold on to. It's like, yes, it's my job to stop them.

Jamie Edelbrock (16:17.302) 

It's not safe or it's not what I would do or it's not what society would do. You have to think, are they not making a good choice for you or for them? I always say to myself and my kids, I'll let them make their choices. I sit back and I've learned to do that.

Do it. If it fails or if you need help, I'm here. Everything in this life is figureoutable. If you try this and it fails, come to me and I will help you figure it out. If you don't come to me, that's okay because I know you can figure it out too. It could be the worst thing, it can be figured out. We will get through this. If I'm lucky enough, I get to help you. Just letting them know, I'm here. I will help you get through this if you want me to. Another phrase I say is, do you want me to help you or do you just need a hug? Instead of automatically thinking I have to help you? I used to be such a fixer.

That caused a lot more attention. You think if you fix something, you step in, I'm going to do it. It's insulting. You're doing them a disservice because they can't do it themselves. It's saying you don't trust them. Just even by saying, "what are you going to do?" and "do you want my help?" or "how can I help you?" A lot of times it's "I can do it" or "I'll let you know."

We have three teenagers. One's getting ready to move out. That's also, how can I help? I don't want to overstep. I want to wrap you in my arms and make sure you, bubble wrap. I always joke with them.

But that's not true. Our job as parents is to let them fly. If you stick with, "I'm here for you and we're gonna figure it out," they will come back if they need help.

Dr. Cam (19:09.971) 

Parents get hurt or offended when their kids don't take their advice or won't listen. For me, I'm excited because that shows my teen feels confident to try to figure it out and not lean on me. There's nothing offensive about that. I'm like, yay, you. You got this.

Jamie Edelbrock (19:36.138) 

You did it.

Dr. Cam (19:39.781) 

It's another thing of it's not about me. It's about what does she need? You have to set aside your ego. I have found my daughters typically more right than I am. She has a way better memory and knows herself better than I know her. There's no way for me to know her better because I'm not in her head.

Jamie Edelbrock (20:10.502) 

My kids will always say, "you don't know what's in my head." Or "I got this." Or the best thing I can hear is, "I already did that." You're just like, "okay." They will say, "you don't need to worry."

I traveled to Jordan years ago. I was on the top of Petra with a Bedouin shepherd. I was worried. I was asking him worry questions. Instead of enjoying the view, I was faced with worry. I was ruining the moment. The Bedouin Shepherd looked at me,

And he said, "why you worry lady?" He said, "I would not have a job if people died."

It brings you right back. Focus on reality.

Dr. Cam (21:57.161) 

When we spend so much of our children's teen childhood worrying, we miss the beauty and joy of what that period is about. We miss it completely and we ruin it for our kids. Our kids don't get to experience the joy of being a teen. I see so many kids that are hopeless, powerless, self harm, drowning themselves in their phone, miserable, trying to escape. In the real world it is fear, pressure, misery. They're not enjoying anything. The things they do enjoy constantly get taken away.

Jamie Edelbrock (23:01.218) 

With each of my kids, they're all so different and their interests are so different. It's so easy to say no. But finding that joy of them being teens and not being stuck on their phone is saying yes to what they want to do, even if it isn't what you pictured for their life. My husband and I were talking about this yesterday because something our youngest wants to do, and he just said, "it's not about me."

Letting them be their authentic self is key for building your relationship with them, for them trusting you. Then you get to learn something new too.

I had no idea that even existed.

Dr. Cam (24:33.139) 

Aren't we raising entitled kids if we're always indulging them in what they want to do? Does that mean we just sit back and indulge them and let them do whatever they want? Aren't they gonna become entitled, disrespectful kids? Where's that line drawn where we're still raising kids that are respectful, grateful, polite, and kind?

Jamie Edelbrock (25:23.16) 

That comes from connection with your kids. If you take that connection away by not allowing them to do what they want, I'm not saying dangerous stuff, but their hobbies, their special interests, they'll trust you, which builds a connection.

How would I want to be treated? Growing up I didn't have money to do stuff that I wanted to. If someone was giving me everything I wanted to do for my special interests, I think that would have set me on a road to success. If you have the means and the ability, do it. Even if you don't have the money, every single thing is figureoutable. There are ways to help your kids in these special interests. What matters is that you are believing them. "I believe you want to do that. I believe you're good at that. You're gonna become great at that. I wanna see where this takes you." If it is a flop, now we know.

Dr. Cam (27:17.887) 

We focus so much on preparing them for the future. My focus has always been how do I make this stage of her life amazing? I want her to look back at her teen years and go, "those were freaking amazing." And I loved my relationship with my mom and I loved what we did and I worked really hard in these areas. And you know what? I did fail in these areas, but I learned from that and I've grown from that. And I know now based on my conversations with my daughters, like daughter, every, she does, like she's sad about moving onto the next phase, even though she's excited about it because she loves this phase.

And every phase has been a phase that we've loved because we have made it something special. it's not been indulging in everything that I've said no to stuff that we can't do. But man, if I can say yes, 100%, I am saying yes. And those are the best moments we've had.

Jamie Edelbrock (28:28.332)

Well, yeah, and absolutely. And I think if we say no to everything just out of control or out of anxiety or because it's not what we want for them, you are building that wall. And if you say no every single time, they're not gonna trust you. If you say yes and let's try it, then when you do have to say no, they realize it is serious. So it's like, pick your battle.

Like, say no to the things that really matter. And I've had to say that, I've had to say no. And my daughter has said, okay, I trust you. Because we say yes to so much and let's try it, let's do it.

When I say no, she'll ask why and I let them ask why, I let them push back, I let them, because maybe it could turn into a yes. need to, what don't I know about this? But saying yes as often as you can, I think makes the nos that much more important. You know, like, this is a serious thing, you cannot do that. Or this is why I don't want you to do that. So yeah.

Dr. Cam (29:25.108)

Exactly. I had a mom tell me, who has an older child, that she looks back and wishes so much that she had not fought about all the stupid stuff they had fought about because now her daughter doesn't trust her on some of the bigger stuff. And she goes, none of that mattered. None of it mattered at all. And I was so focused on being right and controlling it and making sure she didn't do any of these little things. And I regret all of it because it just was stupid. And now when it's really matters and it's really important, she's digging herself out of a hole because her daughter doesn't trust her for the big stuff. I'm like, that is so incredibly true. And the big stuff, going back to mental health, is when your child is struggling with

Jamie Edelbrock (30:27.18)

Yep, it is, it really is.

Dr. Cam (30:38.051)

series mental health issues, which again, we've just said it's not on us. It's not about us. It's about them. But when they know we're going to figure it out and we're not going to lose it and we're not going to make it about us, then they trust us.

Jamie Edelbrock (30:43.146)

Right, right. That's the biggest thing my daughter was not making it about me. And it is about her. And she even said at one point in the middle of all of this, I don't want you to think this is your fault. and I think, yeah, having them being able to come to us with those big things, I think we think in the moment we're doing something wrong, but because they came to you, you're actually doing something right. And the way to get to that rightness is to cultivate that relationship with them now when things are good. And it's by saying yes, it's letting the little things go. I've been saying all these phrases I use, but it's true. Another one is I don't want to fight you.

and the argument stops or I'm going to go to my room until we're both calmed down. I'm not going to put you in time out or till you're grounded or take away your phone. I'm going to calm down. And once I've calmed down, we can talk about this because I know this is important to you. Those little things matter for the big stuff. You're really you're giving yourself and your child a gift by doing those things when things are right. for when things go wrong. Like you can open that gift up when the things go wrong.

Dr. Cam (32:16.253)

Yeah, I love that, the gift. That's beautiful. And it is something that they have to turn on too, because the one thing that also is very foundational when kids are struggling is to know without a doubt that they have a support system there and that they have somebody else that believes in them, because it's very hard to believe in themselves. And if they don't have anyone else, particularly their parents, that believe in them,

How are they going learn to believe in themselves? But when they know, and I think there's the difference between feeling pressure saying, okay, I'm responsible for my parents' emotions because if I'm doing something and I'm responsible for how they feel, that's a lot of pressure on me and I can't handle the pressure because now I'm responsible, but I'm not, they're not responsible for how we feel. They're not responsible for making us happy. They are not responsible for making us feel valued. That is not their job, right? Our job is to do that.

Jamie Edelbrock (33:17.102)

Right, right. It's easy to fall into that trap when you're a parent though, to think that.

Dr. Cam (33:25.081)

It is. It is so easy to do that and then to get really resentful to them for not making us feel okay. And that is not correct. You made me feel disrespected. You made me feel this. And that is a very unfair thing because we're making them feel that as well in the same respect, but we don't like them saying that.

Jamie Edelbrock (33:30.744)

Like, you're in trouble because you hurt me. You made me mad, so you're in trouble. Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (33:54.535)

So there's a lot of kind of irony or, know, there's a little confusion going on there. They're like, well, you made me mad, but I'm not allowed to be mad. Now I'm mad at you and now I'm in trouble for making you mad. I'm confused.

Jamie Edelbrock (34:05.419)

It's so true. And again, that goes back to how do you want to be treated? If I was in this conversation or on the other end of the conversation, how would I want to be spoken to? How would I want to feel? And as soon as you realize that, like, I would hate it, or I hated it when my parents talked to me like this, why would I think that's okay for my kid? When we were in this mental health facility with my daughter, she would go through counseling sessions and therapy sessions and then they would once in a while pull me into the therapy session. And the first thing the therapist said to me, she looked me dead in the eyes and said, but what are you doing for you? Like you're doing all of this. And you know, my daughter is seeing. doesn't like to see me cry, doesn't like to see me upset. Like you said, automatically that puts the pressure on them. Like I need to hold this together because I don't want my mom to be upset. And she said, how are you controlling your emotions around her? Like what's helping you? And I didn't have an answer. One, because life was chaotic in the moment, but it was very much like...

Jamie Edelbrock (35:23.872)

You're right, your daughter does need to see a therapist and a psychiatrist. What are you doing? Like, it's like she flipped it right on me. Not because it's my fault, but because when I'm okay, that's gonna help our relationship. And I think that comes down to that then you learn what they're doing is not about me. What they're doing, they're not trying to hurt us. They're not trying to, it's like...

You all of sudden, well, I all of a sudden saw us as two completely separate individuals versus, we are, we absolutely like, like you said, not an extension of us. like, okay, I am living with an almost adult. let's figure this out. And so that's why I think it's so important. And I think the most advice I think I would give to any parents out there was seek help for yourself.

Dr. Cam (35:55.071)

but you are.

Jamie Edelbrock (36:17.58)

That is so important. When it comes to your kids, yeah, it's not about you. It's not at the same time, you are about you. Right? Yes. So you need to get the help. You need to get like focus on you. It's for you. Because then everything trickles down.

Dr. Cam (36:39.039)

For you. Exactly. 100 % for you.

Jamie Edelbrock (36:44.064)

And everything kind of falls into place. When you're focused on yourself, when you're focused on helping yourself and self-help and getting in your right zone, and that could mean a lot of different things. I've had to, there's, you know, people have had to like let go of, there's, you know, there's situations or things I've had to be like, okay, no, I'm moving on. I'm bettering myself. But when things are right with you, things will trickle down and be right with your family and your kids as well.

Dr. Cam (37:11.327)

I hear parents go, well, I don't have time because I'm doing all this stuff for my kids and I'm doing all this stuff for my family and I don't have time for me. And I think if you are doing all this stuff for your family, right there's the problem because that's not your job to do all that stuff for your family. Support them, but let them do for themselves because that helps them more than you doing for them.

Jamie Edelbrock (37:25.292)

Right. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (37:36.521)

So if you're, if you're doing all this and a lot of times we're resentful towards them and they're in great, they're not grateful for all we're doing and I'm giving everything of mine, they don't want it. So they're not grateful because they don't want it. And you're making them feel bad for giving them stuff they don't even want. So step back. They want freedom. They want their own ownership. They want that. Not for you to not care, but for you to care for yourself.

Jamie Edelbrock (37:46.36)

It's true. It's true. 

Dr. Cam (38:03.175)

and take time because they're watching. How do I value me while I'm watching how mom values her and takes care of her? And then you don't feel all this anger and resentment towards them, which takes away a lot of the stress. yeah.

Jamie Edelbrock (38:16.16)

It does. Like I said, it becomes a roadblock. When you have control you have, I just picture it like two fists coming on a road like, nope, in order to get by, it's going to be a fight. But as soon as you let go, it just opens a path for peace and communication and a better relationship. Yep. Yep.

Dr. Cam (38:31.133)

And they enjoy being around you and they trust being around you and they want to be around you when you're when you are someone that you want to be around yourself. Right. And not controlling all of this other stuff. So to me, if you're feeling any resentment or stress or any of that, that is not your kid's fault. That is on you to let go. And how empowering is that? Because now we don't need them to change for us to be OK.

Jamie Edelbrock (38:40.425)

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I saw this firsthand the other day. I used to be like, hey, if the house is a mess, why aren't you helping? why? Like, don't you see the dishes? Don't you see the laundry? Don't you see the trash? And they don't, to be honest. Like, it doesn't matter to them. They don't care. So, but it matters to me. So I had to learn to like, okay, I can go to bed with dirty dishes in the sink. I can let the laundry sit on the couch. I'm tired. I'm going to bed or, you know, prioritize. And,

Dr. Cam (39:15.955)

They don't, and they don't care! No! 

Jamie Edelbrock (39:31.242)

They know how to a sink or a dish. They know how to get their clothes if they need to. But I was out with my two other kids, but the other one wanted to stay home. And she was home, and I came home, we left the house with, it was a mess. Came home, and she was sitting on the couch with this smile on her face, like.

I'm like, what? What's happening? What's going on? And she just kept smiling until I looked up at the kitchen and saw that it was completely clean and she had made homemade cookies. And I, at that moment was like, I hugged her, I like, this is so amazing. Thank you so much. Like, thank you, thank you, thank you. But that was done without asking. That was done without nagging. That was done, like I would get to it, absolutely. And if I asked for help, they would help. But...

The fact that that was done on their own just because they wanted to do something nice, that was like, okay, they, yes, yes, yes, yes. They don't care, yeah.

Dr. Cam (40:29.703)

and they know your love language is a clean house. They don't care, but yeah, I love that. I think it's focusing too on what their strengths are as well because like my daughter will leave stuff around and she knows it drives me nuts and everyone's gonna be like, you know, it drives me nuts. Can you clean that up for me? I know it's not for you, but can you clean? But then she'll do her stuff. Like when I was sick, she's like, I'm gonna run across the street and she came back and she had. Cough drops and a tease and like all this stuff and she's like I'm gonna take care of you because that's her love language like she loves Cleaning up not her thing taking care of her thing. I'm like, okay So I'm not gonna get mad that there's some dishes that don't haven't been clean the way I want them to be clean Cuz that's not me. But man how cool of that, but she just

Jamie Edelbrock (41:00.707)

It is and that's it's important to focus on what they're doing right. Focus on their strengths. Focus on and bend into that. Lean into that because that's where you're going to see them shine. That's where you're going to like it'll help you stop nagging the little things that are bothering you when you focus on like wow you're really good at that. Like you're really good for caring for others and for me and that's their strength. I have found that not nagging about chores and homework and all of that stuff. When I do say, can you help? Like, can you bring in the garbage? They do it like that. It's not even an issue. But if I were to nag them, exactly, exactly. That was a hard, like if they say, no, I don't want to right now. Or, you know, my one teen is like, I just got off work. My back hurts. I'm like, okay.

Dr. Cam (42:00.115)

Yeah. No. And they're allowed to say no too.

Jamie Edelbrock (42:15.662)

Like I understand because in that situation, I would probably say the same thing. I don't want to do it. It's not good for me right now. And I think that's a powerful lesson when your kids say no, like letting them say no, because when they get out in the real world, they need to have that, what is it, that tool in their toolbox to be able to say no and mean it. And people need to respect that.

Dr. Cam (42:41.801)

I think a lot of parents fear that if they do that, that's all their kids will ever do, is no, no, no, no, no, no. And I have found that they will try it once and of course their kid is gonna say no. And then they get mad and I'm like, well, they weren't allowed to say no then. And when you do it for a while and you set that precedent and they know that they can say no, that's when things shift. But that doesn't change overnight. It does not change overnight. And then if they...

If their answer is not what we want their answer to be, then we get upset too. And I'm like, that's not the point either. Point is not for them to now suddenly do what we want them to do on their own. That's not the point. The point is to respect what they're doing. And it's once we respect that, they start respecting us a lot more and they do jump in when it's on their terms and it makes them feel good. Whole different ball game. And it's amazing how much they like love to help.

Jamie Edelbrock (43:21.166)

It doesn't feel natural when you first do it, especially, you know, the way I was raised and how I started raising them as kids. Like, don't you say no to your mom. Like, how dare you? Like, I told you to do something. Like, that is, you need to respect me. But then you think, I have never respected anybody that demanded respect.

You know, I haven't. And if someone wouldn't listen to, yeah, if someone didn't listen to how I was feeling or really cared, they're blocked. That wall is up, or I don't trust them. And if I have to work with them or be with them, that's not gonna be a good relationship. And so the same goes, and especially for our kids.

Dr. Cam (44:01.663)

No. It's on how respect is made.

Jamie Edelbrock (44:27.278)

Like that's where it goes back to treat them how you want to be treated. And if you want them to respect you, you need to respect them. And that isn't by demanding. That's not by dictatorship. That's not, I mean, that's one thing I say all the time is parenting is not a dictatorship. It's a relationship. And when you have that relationship, then the connection is there. And that's when, that's what matters.

Dr. Cam (44:34.516)

I think parents really, really struggle with that because it feels like you're giving up authority. It feels like you are letting them rule the world and you are letting them have their way. And I think what's really important is when we have that thought process and that mindset, we are seeing and viewing our kids not as human beings, individual human beings.

We are seeing them as our subjects, our things to control. And that right there is what causes so much friction and disrespect. We are not saying, yes, we are adults. Yes, it is our home. Yes, it is things that we want to influence them and teach them. But it's not done through demand and yelling and control because that's not how humans work. And kids are human beings. And I think that's where we're separate. We're not seeing kids.

As humans, we're expecting things and we're expecting them to respond to things that humans do not respond to. And we need to let go of this view that just because we raise them, that they should be a different way towards us despite our own behavior. That is not how humans work.

Jamie Edelbrock (45:55.576)

No, and I never understood, you know, my parents, it was very controlling, like, parent-child relationship. But then eventually we leave and that control, their control is gone. And then what? Like you kind of left floundering or I don't know what to do or we're always expecting someone to be in control of us or tell us what to do. So you either are underdeveloped in that area or you go off the deep end and because you're free finally.

And so I think, I can't remember the exact wording you just used, but yes, they should be in control of their lives. They should be in control of their, know, kids should be what's going on in their brains, in their minds. I think you said something about parents being worried, like, my gosh, they're gonna be the center of the universe or whatever. They should be in their lives. We are, like, and that's how they learn their independence, their self-respect, that's how they know the feelings and emotions in their body. That's how they can tell when something's off. That's how they learn. And it's our job to be there to help them figure out their authentic best self and what's going on with them. And by trying to control them, we are just hindering that. The control doesn't last forever, so it shouldn't even be there at all.

But if you're a parent that is so concerned about controlling your child and their actions and making sure they don't mess up and they're doing things the right way, you're actually hindering them. You're stunting their authenticity and their growth at being an adult. Because eventually your control will stop when they move out of the house.

Dr. Cam (47:50.793)

Right. And what you can do and what is your most powerful thing as the parent, which is through connection, is influence. And when you're controlling, you have minimal influence, which is what makes long lasting change and really helps them learn how to make good decisions and trust you to talk through decisions. And that's what we want to teach them. So as parents, yeah, we have lots of influence. Yes, we do want to set up some rules and regulations to keep them safe with them, understanding them, because we're teaching them. We're teaching as parents, we're not controlling. And I think that's a really difficult, difficult thing for parents to embrace. It feels completely wrong and uncomfortable and no, I'm supposed to be the master of everything and then wonder why their kids don't trust them or won't talk to them. And that's why.

Jamie Edelbrock (48:56.962)

Yeah, it is.

Dr. Cam (48:57.087)

So you can do it. That is definitely a choice, but you can't have both.

Jamie Edelbrock (49:02.99)

No, and you need to decide, think. I remember the turning point in my parenting where I was like, this isn't working. What I'm doing is not working. I don't like the way the kids are feeling. I don't like the way I'm feeling. Something's not working. And so, it felt at the time like I was giving up, but what was happening was relationships were finally starting to build.

letting them be themselves and just letting go of that control and that power and really respecting what they want to do even if it's like what's what do you want for dinner what movie do you want to watch what do you want to do today you just want to rest it's like but I had all these things planned for us okay we'll have a rest day you know like yeah that that letting go I think is essential if you want a good relationship with your kids and especially when they leave the house.

Dr. Cam (50:05.075)

Yeah, and I think going back to even what you were saying with mental health where, you know, no matter what you did, it wasn't going to change the fact that your daughter was suffering from depression. It just, that was, it was what it was. And I think we often think and imagine our kids as like these wild beasts that if we don't control and contain them, they are going to wreak havoc on the world and they're going to be nasty, wild, ugly people. And what I have found is

The kids that are nasty, ugly, wild people are the ones railing against feeling controlled. And the kids that are not are the ones that don't feel a need to rail against control and are given that spot. And you know what? There are going to be kids that are going to make some terrible, bad, awful mistakes, no matter what we do.

Jamie Edelbrock (50:58.22)

Right, they're something, yep. They make their own choices, yep, yep.

Dr. Cam (51:00.231)

We can control it and they're going to fight our control. And there's going to be kids that no matter what we do aren't. We got to look at who our kid is and how to best support them. But we have to start, we have to understand who they are individually first and figure out what works best for them. But immediately going, got a controller. It's going to get out of control. It's not, not a great place to start. And that gets us into trouble.

Jamie Edelbrock (51:25.45)

No. Yeah, and I think that's why it's important if you do have a kid that is like that and you're like, what is happening? Is to seek, make sure they're safe and seek professional help if they want it, because they're also at this age where I don't want to go to therapy, I don't want to go. You can't force them, but to get help for yourself. Get tools in your toolbox and make sure that you are mentally healthy and that you have someone you can talk to.

because it is uncomfortable when you don't know what to do with your child and you've done everything right. But I think the most important thing, like having that connection, like you said. So if or when that does happen, they know you're a safe person no matter what. Like they know that your love is unconditional, truly unconditional. Not if you check these boxes, not if you look this way. or if you get your act together, then you can come home. It is a truly, I am here and I will listen and I will help you figure this out. That's why the connection is important. So they can come to you when they're

Dr. Cam (52:31.859)

Yeah, they need to trust. They need to have that. They need to believe. And so if kids are being distrustful or disrespectful, we need to go, why do they feel the need to act that way? What's going on? What's going on?

Jamie Edelbrock (52:47.597)

Yes, find the why behind it. That is huge too. Okay, you made this bad choice or this poor decision. You learned your lesson, but let's find the why. That's been huge in our family. Why is this happening? do you need to fill in your life or what's missing or what? And just being able to have that conversation is huge. okay, let's talk about the why.

Dr. Cam (53:14.781)

Yeah. I have just found if in doubt, matter what, nothing goes well when I start in a place of criticism and being mean and being mad and all of that. When I approach anything that way, it never goes well and it doesn't help. When I approach things from kindness and from curiosity and from giving her the benefit of the doubt, we always end up somewhere way better than where we even started from.

Jamie Edelbrock (53:15.244)

Let's figure this out.

Dr. Cam (53:44.251)

And that to me is just key. There's no reason to be unkind. There's just no reason.

Jamie Edelbrock (53:44.27)

100%.

Jamie Edelbrock (53:49.942)

I love that so much. It's so true. It's so true. And that goes back to how do I want to be treated? Something my sister said that was so great that I've held close to my heart is she said our relationship isn't fragile. And I think about that with our kids. They can, know, bad things can happen. They can make wrong choices. They are who they are. But my love for them is not fragile. They can throw what they want at me, but I will stand there because not literally. No, no, but you know what I mean. Like the words or whatever happens.

Dr. Cam (54:23.699)

Not literally, they can't throw knives and stuff. not literally. I just know people get real stuff and that's not a joke. People get real stuff thrown up. We got to step back, right? Yeah. But again.

Jamie Edelbrock (54:34.849)

That is not a joke. Yes, that is not a joke. Absolutely. you, our, happens, my love for you is not fragile. Our relationship is not fragile. It will be fragile though, if you hold on too tight. That breaks easy.

Dr. Cam (54:41.715)

Yeah, I love that because there's no nobody in our family is walking on eggshells because we're just stomping on them because we know that we're going to get through it. Yeah.

Jamie Edelbrock (54:55.863)

Absolutely. And I think that's the best relationship to have with your kids. Like, give it to me. Tell me. Like, let's work it out. And call me out. yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (55:15.079)

And I can call, we can call each other out. We call each other out, not disrespectfully, sometimes jokingly, but we call each other out. Absolutely.

Jamie Edelbrock (55:24.084)

Right, of course, and I think that's important. That's so important. And I learned so much. I'm like, I had no idea. Like, or I didn't know that that was a thing. Or like, I'm so sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't think that would hurt your feelings, and I'm sorry.

Dr. Cam (55:36.031)

Yeah. I feel a lot of times people think that that's being a weak parent, but I see it as being a very strong parent because we're able to parent despite, and I'm not saying I don't have an ego. I do. It's being able to parent despite that. It's being able to put that aside. And that's not an easy thing to do at all.

Jamie Edelbrock (55:49.154)

No, it's not. And those voices, I mean, there are critics and there are people, people are going to parent how they want to parent. They have those voices and those are things that, okay, this is working for me and my family. And it's so important to turn those voices off sometimes. Like, hey, I am not getting, like, I'm not growing from you saying that. I'm like.

That actually hinders my growth from these things or like the things I'm reading or whatever it is and like protecting your mental health in those ways too I think is huge.

Dr. Cam (56:32.979)

Yeah, parenting is not a report card. I'm not trying to parent to get all A's based on somebody else's qualifications. That is not my job. Whatever other people think, they think. That is fair for them to think. I need to let that go because what matters to me is what my daughter thinks and what my daughter is feeling. That to me is the only, if I have a report card, that's the only one that's allowed to fill it out. Nobody else.

Jamie Edelbrock (56:56.622)

Yep, absolutely. Yep.

Dr. Cam (57:01.119)

I'm to get a go check. think I'm getting pretty good grades right now, but we'll see. There's times where I will bomb a test. So man, I will bomb a test. No doubt about it.

Jamie Edelbrock (57:07.498)

Yes, so true. And it's the repair after you bomb the test going back and like, okay, sorry, how can I have a retake? Yes, I need to redo this. I think that is huge. Like I messed up. I know I did. This is what I'm gonna do better. Let's redo it. And that's huge for building trust too.

Dr. Cam (57:14.537)

Can I have a retake? I go get a retake. Yep, I go get a retake. Yep. I'd start this again.

Yeah, it is. And then she does it with me as well. Yep. Jamie, we could talk probably for about 10 more days nonstop without even taking a breath.

Jamie Edelbrock (57:31.49)

Yeah, yes, because you're modeling it. Yep, same. I know it's been so good to talk with you and just revisit our friendship. love this.

Dr. Cam (57:47.951)

I know we will do it. We'll do it offline as well. So Jamie tell people how they can find you.

Jamie Edelbrock (57:54.478)

Sure, yeah, you can go to jamieettelbrock.com that has links to my books and links to my social media. I'm on Instagram, it's Tangled That Book. And there you'll see, that's where I'm probably the most active. Every once in a while I'll do a blog post if my heart feels like it. But yeah, I think Instagram is probably the best way to get a hold of me, Tangled That Book.

Dr. Cam (58:16.755)

Yeah, I love your content. It's beautiful. One thing that you want people to what we've talked to cover so much, what is one thing you would like people to walk away with from this?

Jamie Edelbrock (58:30.446)

I really think it is help yourself so you can help your kids. I think that's the main thing because kids are going to struggle. You are going to have that. If your kids aren't struggling then they're hiding something from you. And so it is very important to have a strong foundation and having your mental health. and emotions in check. So when that time comes, you can help them exactly how they need to be helped.

Dr. Cam (59:01.285)

I love that our job is not to prevent them from struggling. Our job is to be able to make sure we're strong enough to help them and support them.  

About the Show:

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

#MentalHealthMatters #TeenAnxietySupport

In this episode, Dr. Cam is joined by parenting coaches Kyle and Sarah Wester to explore the challenges of co-parenting and the conflicts that arise from differing parenting styles. They dive into the importance of communication, understanding, and personal accountability, offering real-world strategies for resolving conflicts and strengthening family dynamics. The Westers share personal experiences on how external voices can facilitate change and how intentional conversations can lead to a more connected and harmonious parenting approach.

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:01)

The thing I would say to those couples listening—where one person is really open and doing the work—is that Sarah just kept being patient. She kept throwing more and more resources and opportunities my way to hear different voices. But it was never a demand. It was never, "You need to do this."

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast delivers real-world strategies, expert advice, and actionable tips to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen.

Whether you're struggling with teen behavior, communication, or motivation, each episode is packed with practical solutions to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding.

#parentingteens #drcamcaswell #co-parenting #raisingteens #familydynamics #communication

In this episode, Dr. Cam Caswell and Lindsay Cormack discuss the challenges of engaging teens in political discussions, the decline of civics education, and the importance of fostering critical thinking and open dialogue. Lindsay, author of How to Raise a Citizen, shares her insights on how parents can guide their children through the complexities of political discourse and media literacy. They emphasize the importance of parents modeling engagement, curiosity, and empowering their teens to become informed, responsible citizens in today's fast-paced media environment.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE

5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS

Engage in Political Conversations Early: Starting conversations with your teen about politics is essential for fostering critical thinking and helping them understand complex issues.

Civics Education is Crucial: Civics education has been declining in schools, but parents have the power to teach their teens about the importance of voting and civic participation.

Help Your Teen Navigate Information: Teens are bombarded with information on social media and news. By encouraging critical thinking, you can help them evaluate sources and form informed opinions.

Model Political Engagement: It’s essential for parents to model curiosity and engagement in political issues. Your teen will learn by watching how you approach important topics.

Practice Listening in Political Discussions: Active listening is a key component of meaningful political conversations. It’s important to not just talk but also to listen and understand your teen’s perspective

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CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Lindsay Cormack

CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:01)

I have Lindsay Cormack, an associate professor of political science with me today. And Lindsay specializes in helping teens think critically and engage thoughtfully with the world around them. She's even written the book on it, How to Raise a Citizen. Lindsay is here to share practical strategies to turn those tricky political conversations into meaningful and even peaceful discussions. Welcome, Lindsay.

Lindsey Cormack (00:50)

Dr. Cam (00:53)

Lindsey Cormack (01:02)

And this is something where at first I thought like, you maybe that's just particular to engineering students. But, you know, after a decade of looking at that and talking with other people and doing research on, you know, how much our 18 year olds actually know, I've come to realize like it is a nationwide problem. We graduate most of our high school students without a rudimentary understanding of the government system that they're in. And so this became a project for me because I don't want college kids to feel not powerful. I don't want them to feel jaded already. I don't want them to feel turned off by a system because I know that say what you will about US democracy. It's one of the best decision-making frameworks that's ever existed in the history of the world. And our children will do better if they understand that system. So that's what got me inspired and involved to do it. I didn't know when I set out that this was going to be a parenting book. I thought this might be a book that was like, here's how some states do it, here's how other states do it. But in the course of researching it, I realized no state is doing it that well. And if we want to change things, we're really going to have to start in another level, and that's going to be in the home.

Dr. Cam (02:24)

Lindsey Cormack (02:39)

Dr. Cam (03:33)

Lindsey Cormack (04:32)

Everyone's playing catch up from the time they're like 20 to 60, and then they have 20 years where they're like in their like, you know, really powerful political place, and it probably shouldn't be like that. But I understand why schools have been hard sites to do this work in. I mean, part of it is to blame with ourselves. When we were doing the research for this book, we interviewed teachers in nearly every US state. And something that we heard throughout the country is that teachers operate in sort of a constrained environment where they're afraid to say the wrong thing.

because then someone's gonna go home, tell a parent, that parent's gonna get mad, they're gonna email them, or the principal, or they're gonna have, know, the whole PTA gets mad. And so they're in a tricky position. And it's not that I don't think they can do this work. I think there's plenty of really good social studies teachers out here who can do this work. But I understand that their incentives are not always aligned to kind of get into that hard stuff because they don't want it to blow back.

Dr. Cam (05:51)

I don't agree with that opinion. So how do we help our kids who are getting tons of information? How do we help them think about it critically?

Lindsey Cormack (06:31)

And so that's like a really hard environment for children to be raised in because they don't have any other assessment tools at their disposal. They're not having to grapple with like finding a different book or trying to figure out who's funding things. And so I think it's one of the very important things that we do as parents is to make sure that we don't just denigrate the stuff they're seeing because it's not like everything they're seeing is garbage, but it is to engage in it with them. And so something that I ask my daughter, I have a 12 year old who has like limited time to see things that I don't see.

But I do ask her, I'm like, what are you hearing on this? What are you seeing on this? And then if it's something where she'll show me like Pinterest, I guess Pinterest is social media in its own way now. She'll show me like, here's what it is. And I think it's important for us to see it too instead of just missing it out of hand because it's not likely that we're gonna see the same things kind of ever. Our algorithms are just so different. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (07:42)

I love this. We see something that our kids are looking at and it is true. Like there's algorithms that'll feed them all kinds of stuff based off of one search. So they can go down rabbit holes that might go down very narrow opinionated places. And when you're on social media and that's all you see, it becomes what you believe everyone believes.

How do we have conversations with them when they are like, this is what I see, this is what everyone is saying, because it's everyone in their feed is saying, how do we start that conversation to help break that down without shutting them down?

Lindsey Cormack (08:27)

that whoever's putting in front of them believes it's gonna keep their attention or it's going to let them disassociate in a way where they can stay there and tell an ad place. And so we have to ask themselves, what are we doing here? What is it that keeps us here and why is it that this tool exists in the first place? We're not paying for this tool, so something else is being traded. it's your attention. it's the insights on what you're watching. So making sure that they understand the ecosystem that they're playing in and what they are, I think that's part one. But part two can be something that's maybe harder to do in a one day setting, but in a longer timeframe, is thinking about what you would see if your algorithm was different. And I'll give you an example that I did in my class. In my classroom this last year, I said to the kids, you know what, let's start two fake Instagrams. We're gonna start one with the seeds of some conservative words, we're gonna start one with the seeds of some liberal words. And I let them pick the list. I said, you guys pick one. And then at the end of class on Thursdays, we would watch about eight minutes of Instagram and see like, okay, what's happening on the liberal Instagram, what's happening on the conservative Instagram.

And never once was there anything that was the exact same. Never once did we see the same content at all. And so I was like, okay, so we understand that we would be operating in different environments if this is what we saw before bed when we were scrolling or this is. It's just a different world. And because there's no crossover, it's just important that they sort of understand that blind spot that everyone has. It's not something that's particular to children. It's kind of particular to our entire media environment. No one's getting the same configuration of things. And so that's like part one is make sure they have to like have a full understanding of that. It's not everyone. It's everyone who's kind of like them. But even then, it's very individualized.

Dr. Cam (10:18)

Lindsey Cormack (10:46)

Dr. Cam (10:53)

Lindsey Cormack (11:06)

They say, you know what, I'm gonna rebel and I'm gonna be a Democrat or I'm gonna be Republican, whatever you're not. It also just doesn't really make sense because we know that the parties and the ideologies and the personalities are fluid and changing. And so the party that served you in your time that you were like a teenager or 20 and 30s might not be the one that serves or resonates or speaks to them. That's okay. Like that's okay. Both parties have strengths. Both parties have weaknesses. There's not one that's better than the other. That's why we have like a very persistent two party solution to what we're doing here because they both kind of like work in different ways.

Dr. Cam (12:07)

Lindsey Cormack (12:18)

Dr. Cam (12:36)

Lindsey Cormack (12:49)

Doing stuff with kids teaches us things about ourselves. It reflects things to us, it shows us stuff, and so it's always helpful. And the idea that this is a topic that's off limits or maybe they're not gonna be interested in, that's just not true. We just don't really give them a lot of opportunities to engage on it with us.

Dr. Cam (13:32)

Lindsey Cormack (13:38)

Dr. Cam (14:04)

Lindsey Cormack (14:09)

There's an opportunity, I imagine that they might be talking about it. And so it's just sort of finding those entry points that make sense. Like if you had asked me, you know, like last year, should I talk to my kids about what's happened in Israel? It would be like, well, you know, if that's something that's gonna be in your community, if that's gonna be a conversation that's gonna happen, yeah, you don't wanna be the off limits person. But if you have like a five year old and you're not, know, in a community that's gonna have any sort of relation to this, I'm not sure that it makes sense to say like, hey, just so you know, this horrific, scary thing happened that you have no control of. Like, yeah, so you know your kids best, you gotta go where they're going, you have to understand what they wanna get into and not try to push something into it, because that's not what they wanna do.

Dr. Cam (15:20)

Lindsey Cormack (15:59)

I think they need understand federalism. know, state government does different things than local, does different things than federal. So it's not just like, there's this nefarious people in DC doing all government stuff. It's like, it's your neighbors and your friends who are making zoning decisions and decisions on like, you know, what stoplights going to go up or if this is going to be a Stein, whatever. It's all that sort of quality of life, local area stuff. But I think one of the most important things and one that encompasses all of them. which is this ability to have a hard conversation because that is something that is so missing from the way that we sort of have schooling done. like, they're not really asked to be advocates. They're not really asked to, you know, fight or grapple or dig into some sort of topic that's hard and then come back and be like, OK, and that is what the practice is. So it's developing that muscle memory for hard or uncomfortable conversations of which politics offers a lot of opportunities. There's a lot of chances to do this and they just don't really get that in most of school because we don't focus that much on politics or government to begin with. It's mostly, we know some things, we're gonna teach you some things, please tell us those things back. And a lot of our politics curriculum looks like of like history, where they're like, okay, learn these things that happened 250 years ago, make sure you know them, now you're a citizen. Contemporary politics demands a lot more of us. It demands this like back and forth and flow of ideas, but they can't just learn it on their own. We gotta practice with them. We gotta show them what that is. We can't hide them from that, but we need to do it with them.

Dr. Cam (18:14)

Lindsey Cormack (19:11)

Dr. Cam (20:08)

Lindsey Cormack (20:49)

Dr. Cam (21:11)

Lindsey Cormack (21:21)

And so if you can show them what it is to do that and say, you know what, I can learn a little more. I can have a conversation. I can do that. I think that's the best thing you can do. All the other pieces, know, no one needs to become a government trivia expert. You don't need to know the ins and outs of everything. You need to show and model what it is to care, to learn more, to care, to be involved, to show that this is something that's worth your time. And that's kind of easy. That's like a mindset shift. That's saying like, okay, I can take this on.

Dr. Cam (22:11)

Lindsey Cormack (22:14)

Dr. Cam (22:35)

Lindsey Cormack (22:38)

Dr. Cam (22:44)

About the Show:

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your ultimate resource for navigating the challenges of raising teens. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, a seasoned adolescent psychologist and parenting coach, this podcast provides practical strategies and expert advice on how to build stronger relationships with your teen while supporting their emotional and intellectual growth. Whether you're dealing with teen behavior struggles or seeking to improve communication, each episode offers actionable tips to help parents confidently face the challenges of raising teens today.

#ParentingTeens #TeenPolitics #CriticalThinking #CivicsEducation #ParentingTips #RaisingInformedCitizens

In this episode of Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam, Dr. Cam Caswell and Dr. Jenny Woo explore the crucial role of emotional intelligence in parenting teens. They discuss how emotional intelligence influences relationships, communication, and teen development, and why it’s more important than ever in today’s world. Dr. Woo sheds light on the "emotional recession" affecting today's youth, and how technology, social media, and societal pressures contribute to emotional challenges. The conversation offers practical advice on how parents can model emotional regulation, resilience, and empathy to help their teens navigate their feelings, cope with emotional discomfort, and build stronger relationships.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE

5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS

Emotions Are Data: Understanding your teen’s emotions can give you valuable insights into their needs and how to better support them. Recognize the nuances of emotions to improve communication.

Validating Emotions is Key: Dismissing your teen’s feelings can lead to a breakdown in communication. Validation fosters trust and helps teens feel seen and understood, encouraging stronger connections.

Resilience Through Discomfort: Letting your teen experience emotional discomfort helps them develop resilience and coping skills, which are essential for long-term emotional growth.

Model Emotional Regulation: Parents need to model healthy emotional regulation. Showing your teen how to manage emotions effectively is the first step in teaching them to do the same.

Empathy is Built Through Experience: Allow your teen to face challenges and even "micro failures." This builds empathy and teaches them how to navigate their emotions with greater maturity.

🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW?

EPISODE CHAPTERS

CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. Jenny Woo

CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:01)

Dr. Wu has spent her career bridging the gap between science and practice, creating tools like her award-winning card games, 52 essential conversations, and 52 essential coping skills used by families, schools, and workplaces worldwide. Dr. Wu's expertise has been featured in Forbes, PBS, Parents, and more. And she's here to share practical tips and proven strategies with us to help our teens thrive emotionally and…

Socially welcome. Dr. Wu Jenny. How are you?

Dr. Jenny Woo (01:00)

Dr. Cam (01:04)

Dr. Jenny Woo (01:15)

How can you get that on that career trajectory that you're passionate about? And from there, taught MBA students as well as undergrads. And then after having kids of my own, and that's also part of the reason why we're talking, right? Why I got into mind, brain, emotion, and emotional intelligence is really, realized, well, here I am teaching adults in the workplace, but realizing that myself, as a mom and at the time it was mom for three kids under three all in diapers, two are twins preemies. I realized, right? So Dr. Kam, when you mentioned, you know, we want to equip our teens with the skills, but we also want to equip ourselves in the context of parenting with these emotional fluency, awareness, intelligence, regulation skills ourselves.

So then that really just educated myself at home and so I wanted to learn more, then really pivoted my career into education, was a Montessori school director for little toddlers, to working in K-12, to then teaching at University of California Irvine with undergrads and graduate students. So long story short, I think emotional intelligence is so important yet so tricky because It's different in different situations, but that's the fun part as well, right?

Dr. Cam (03:11)

Dr. Jenny Woo (03:24)

Dr. Cam (04:31)

Dr. Jenny Woo (04:35)

So that's what it is. It's knowing how to make emotions work for us and not against us.

Dr. Cam (05:11)

Dr. Jenny Woo (06:17)

Dr. Cam (06:19)

Dr. Jenny Woo (06:47)

I love. And I was like, wow, that is so tiring and draining just hearing you saying that, know, gotta do this, gotta do this, should, could, would, you know. And in the workplace, know, Gen Zs are really experiencing the most burnout, sadness, and stress. That's what we're seeing. And so the question becomes, you know, like, what can we do now, right, to equip our kids? with these emotional intelligence skills, these coping skills, to be able to know what they want, right? Take actions toward it. And also, like you said, stay resilient, understand how to manage adversity in the tough times.

Dr. Cam (08:47)

Dr. Jenny Woo (09:26)

Dr. Cam, times are changing and they are accelerating changes rapidly. We've certainly gone through the pandemic. We have the combination of social media, the goods and bads and uglies, right? And sadly, economically speaking, our teens are less daring in terms of dreaming up.

that they'll move out of the house, they'll have their own house, right? You know, all those things because of the barriers that we are facing today that we're seeing, right? So I think it's more structural, systemic, and know, things that are sort of out of your control in some ways, right? So how do you deal and manage with the uncontrollables? That becomes yet another thing to think about.

But I think as parents, we need to give ourselves a pat on the back. It is extremely hard. But I do also have to call out that it's all about modeling too. And so for example, one of the things I've been talking about lately a lot is when we talk about social media or phone usage, these dopamine hits that we ourselves are very much drawn to.

I think it's important to understand how we behave and use technology, right, before we say anything else about our kids.

Dr. Cam (11:41)

Dr. Jenny Woo (12:10)

Dr. Cam (12:16)

Dr. Jenny Woo (12:37)

Dr. Cam (13:23)

Dr. Jenny Woo (13:33)

Dr. Cam (13:51)

It's not on them, it's on the environment that's been created for them. So how do we help them become more resilient in a world that is far more, there's so much more stress, there's so much more pressure, there's so much more just distractions. How do we help our kids build that resilience and emotional intelligence?

Dr. Jenny Woo (14:43)

Dr. Cam (18:25)

Right? So modeling that. So how do we as parents, when we're stressed and we're overwhelmed and we're exhausted, how do we model emotional intelligence and regulation in front of our teens when we just, we're having trouble finding it?

Dr. Jenny Woo (19:13)

We love your thoughts if you have time, interested, that kind of thing. Make it a conversation because so many times we feel like we're running into a wall when we're trying to pry these information out of them and you get the one word response. You're like, where do I go from there? And so start the conversation yourself. And this is also where we use our emotional intelligence skills to recognize their social cues. Are they latching on to certain things you said? Or do they seem really bored? Or they need to do something else, right? So then you can adapt what you say, what you share accordingly. But really, when we're having a bad day, don't force it, you know? Sometimes it's it's cloudy, know, almost time to rain and that's, the rain's not turning back, right? So you can remove yourself.

Right? Just in the intense moments, remove yourself, take a pause and regroup before you go back to, you know, whatever's needed.

Dr. Cam (21:15)

I have to walk on eggshells because I'm worried that whatever I do is going to set my teen off. Please address that because that is completely emotional intelligence right there. What do we tell parents who are walking on eggshells?

Dr. Jenny Woo (21:56)

Dr. Cam (22:34)

Dr. Jenny Woo (22:46)

What do I want to do? You know, I need to make sure my kid's doing the right thing right now. Yeah, that's not going to work. That's not going to work. You're going to have to change your rhythm to your team's rhythm. And, you know, a lot of the times when they are ready to open up, it's usually the time, say, I find that at like right before bedtime when you are so tired yourself, right?  .

And they are sleeping later, but you want to go to bed, right? So it's the most inconvenient times. But knowing that, I would really sort of pace yourself and allocate other times that are more, you know, when they're more open to be able to where, you know, it's less about walking on eggshells. They're more open to you.

Dr. Cam (24:17)

Dr. Jenny Woo (25:28)

One of the developing the best team coping skills, is, which is really our kryptonite is that our teams are great at dumping their emotions, their distress on their parents. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So parents, you're the emotional dumpster, you know, you, you. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (26:36)

Dr. Jenny Woo (26:46)

Dr. Cam (26:49)

Dr. Jenny Woo (27:43)

So concretely speaking, it is about reminding yourself, these are all my control and these are not my emotions. You know, my goal has been served. I'm here to listen, but that's done. It's their sort of problem to solve, right? Their skills to build situations to understand and, know, building into, ways of unloading your emotion, whether it's taking a walk, doing journaling or treating yourself, right, to a nice massage. Being able to have that menu of syncing up with yourself and regulating your own emotion is about being emotionally intelligent.

Dr. Cam (29:19)

Dr. Jenny Woo (29:56)

Dr. Cam (30:55)

Adolescence is a very egocentric phase. so empathy does not exude from teenagers and parents feel like, my God, I'm raising this kid that has no empathy whatsoever, especially for me. How do we address that in our kids if we feel like they're not developing empathy right now?

Dr. Jenny Woo (31:46)

Those are paving the way, but your kids have never experienced what it feels like. How can they even begin to relate to others, you know, and help others in expressing those empathy? So again, it goes back to doing less, right, to have more impact. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (33:28)

I think too, and I think we have to be really very, very intentional on how are we modeling empathy towards them.

Dr. Jenny Woo (34:09)

Dr. Cam (35:15)

Dr. Jenny Woo (36:03)

And so this help seeking behavior becomes nonexistent and they don't have that barometer of understanding when enough is enough or when they need to slow down and take a break. And I can also tell you, when I mentioned I work with Twilight years as a cognitive neuroscience researcher, I did a lot of interventions with adults 70 plus.

And it was really about their memory intervention, right? How to build strength and working memory, all that good stuff. But what comes up is really this growth mindset of, you know, like, I can't do it because when I was young, you know, I was told and, you know, and dealing with those emotions, again, the mixed emotion of I am getting older, right? But yet I'm getting more mature, you know, sort of just the good and the bad, right?

So I would say, recognize, are you doing this only to your sons or also to your daughters, right? And what are some of the upbringing messages as parents that you have heard that you're carrying on to your kids? Is that appropriate? And what's the worst that could happen by acknowledging your kids' emotions, right? What's the worst that could, only the good, right? And we do this to ourselves. We have less self-compassion because we say this.

like suck it up to ourselves and we are hesitant to give ourselves credit because we feel like that will make us complacent, right? We do the same thing and look at ourselves, all the anxiety and the stress we're experiencing because of this very same act. So, you know, for those who are not brought up this way, I would say experiment, keep an open mind, right? Yeah.

Dr. Cam (38:58)

their parents and the people that told them that rather than helping them express and deal with them. So there's a lot and like you said, at 70, they're still have that because that happened when those formative years, which is adolescence of how we form our identity and how we recognize our emotions and learn to manage them. So I think it's so important and I love just just try it because it is absolutely amazing when you do validate.

The connection it builds between you and the trust and respect it builds between you and your child too, which is the foundation of everything else you do as a parent.

Dr. Jenny Woo (40:20)

Dr. Cam (40:23)

Dr. Jenny Woo (40:43)

Dr. Cam (41:48)

Dr. Jenny Woo (42:03)

Dr. Cam (42:27)

Dr. Jenny Woo (42:38)

Dr. Cam (42:47)

Dr. Jenny Woo (43:14)

About the Show:

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is a valuable resource for parents navigating the challenges of raising teens. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, a clinical psychologist and certified parenting coach, the podcast offers expert advice, practical parenting strategies, and insights to help you connect with your teen, improve communication, and support their emotional development. Whether you’re looking for strategies to address teen behavior or improve your relationship, each episode is packed with actionable tips and real-world advice. #ParentingTeens #EmotionalIntelligence #TeenParenting #TheTeenTranslator

In this episode of Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam, Dr. Cam Caswell sits down with life coach and former teacher Kristi Simons to dive into the secrets of building teen confidence. They discuss why self-awareness is the foundation of confidence, how parents can encourage emotional expression, and why resilience matters more than confidence alone. Kristi shares powerful insights on shifting internal beliefs, fostering self-worth, and creating a supportive environment where teens feel seen, heard, and valued. If you're looking for practical ways to help your teen navigate self-doubt and embrace their full potential, this episode is for you.

Self-Awareness Fuels Confidence – Teens who understand their emotions and thought patterns develop a stronger sense of self-worth. Encourage reflection and emotional awareness.

Emotional Expression Builds Strength – Suppressing emotions leads to self-doubt. Let your teen know it's okay to express how they feel without fear of judgment.

Kindness is a Confidence Booster – The way you talk to your teen (and yourself!) influences their self-perception. Kindness and encouragement go a long way.

Resilience Over Perfection – Confidence isn’t about never failing—it’s about bouncing back. Teach your teen that setbacks are learning opportunities, not defeats.

Believe in Them First – Your teen mirrors your belief in them. Show them you trust their abilities, and they’ll start believing in themselves too.

Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫

00:00 – Unlocking Teen Confidence: A Journey Begins

Dr. Cam

Hey parents, are you ready to unlock the secrets to building your teens confidence? In today's episode, we're diving deep into how to help our teens tackle challenges with a strong sense of self, whether they're facing struggles at home or feeling the pressure at school. And we've got a special guest with us, Christy Simons, a former teacher turned teen life coach, who's on a mission to equip teens with the life skills she was she had growing up.

Me too. Skills that build true confidence and resilience. So if you're looking for ways to help your team not only survive, but thrive, this episode is for you. Welcome, Christy.

Kristi Simons (00:43)

Dr. Cam (00:53)

Kristi Simons (01:02)

My son really changed everything for me, my daughter as well. After two mental health breakdowns, I finally decided that coaching was the right route for me. So I hired my own coach. I stepped into such an inspiring community with all of these incredible women. And I just looked around and I was like, my gosh, it's like there's a different way. And what started to come to me was that they were speaking like a completely different language. And it was this language of self-love, confidence and empowerment that I feel like I wasn't really surrounded by before. And so things slowly started to piece themselves back together. I mean, I really do feel like motherhood for me just shattered me into pieces. And there were pieces of myself that needed to fall away and others that were meant to stay. It's just, had to figure out how to put them back together. And so that's what coaching and community really did for me. And I found myself a little after four years starting my own podcast. And the reason that it ended up being, you know, teens specifically that I work with. Honestly, truthfully, I sit here today and I'm still like, how did this happen? Like to me, it's just, I look back and I can see all of the breadcrumbs. But honestly, I tell people like it just kind of happened organically. And there's something bigger at play here, I truly believe. But that's a different conversation. And so yeah, I started to initially help teens through the pandemic.

A lot of them were just dropping out of high school for multiple reasons, mainly main one being like their mental health and just the way that they were actually feeling. And so I started helping them in that capacity. And then I realized how much coaching had changed my life and the trajectory of it. I became sober. I still am three years later. Like there's just so many shifts that have happened for me in such a positive way that I knew that I wanted to give back in that way as well. So I started doing like tutoring and life coaching, and now it's just moved into full life coaching. yeah.

Dr. Cam (03:30)

Kristi Simons (03:43)

They feel like they need to constantly be comparing themselves to others. They're worried about others' opinions. So there's evidence just from the clients that I work with that there's people pleasing involved. So it's how do we now start to help them to understand that they are, in fact, their own person and that they can trust themselves. And so I would say a lot of it is that.

It may seem like these external factors to them, but really what's happening is it's like the internal, it's the beliefs that they have about themselves. And so it's trying to get them to shift their perspective to that language of self-love, confidence, and empowerment that I feel like I learned later in life. But now that I know it, I feel like it's like my duty to teach it. So this is why I stepped out of the classroom to do this. And again, it's just to me, I'm still just like, wow, it's kind of like this like holy shit moment where I'm like, can't believe this is actually the work that I'm doing. Because you recognize like those qualities within yourself, like you can't do this work unless you actually have confidence and you feel empowered in your life, or at least you're moving in that direction. I mean, it's a constant evolution. And there's always going to be struggles and challenges. But you come to this place where you really do realize that you are like this machine that is capable of so, so much.

Dr. Cam (05:06)

Kristi Simons (06:41)

And I know my husband thinks I'm super strange for doing this, but it honestly works. And this is just like to make a point. So he bought me flowers for our anniversary and this was October 30th was our anniversary. And so these flowers are still alive. And I know that they are alive because I continuously every morning I do one thing. It's like one small habit for these flowers so that I can keep them as long as possible.

I will fill them up with new water and I will literally talk to, like I will speak to them and I will speak into the water and I will just give like positive energy to them, like stay alive essentially, but you're beautiful. You're so powerful, like you're so strong. And I swear to you, I will go get them if you want me to prove they are still alive. And when I think about the fact that we as human beings are like, I don't know if it's like 70 % energy or something, don't quote me on that, but it's close.

It's all in the way that we speak. It's all in the way that we show up. It's in the way that we communicate. Like to me, like your words have such power. And so if just by, and this is just me doing an experiment to prove to my husband that these things are going to be alive till freaking Christmas, and then he'll finally believe me. But it's true if we can understand that from that perspective, like 90 % of, 90 % of life I believe is all about energy. The other 10 % is strategy.

Dr. Cam (08:19)

Kristi Simons (08:46)

I feel like we all need those people in our lives. So it's really about just shifting the conversation and also like giving ourselves a ton of compassion as well, because I know there's conversations that I used to have about other people, about myself, that yeah, I just, don't want to be hard on myself for that anymore. It's just about, okay, today, like what can I do to start making some changes and focusing in a direction that actually benefits everybody.

Dr. Cam (09:34)

Kristi Simons (11:12)

It may seem awkward or feel awkward for everybody because if it's not something you're used to doing, of course it's going to be different. When you're creating change, there's going to be that discomfort. And so what I see is just for them, it's really being aware of their thoughts and learning to think about what they actually think about. And then once you're in that space, you can then take action from a different perspective.

Because to me, it all comes down to choice. We all have a choice in that moment, whether we want to lean into all of the limiting beliefs that we have about ourselves or whether we want to lean into the feelings that we're actually desiring to feel. Because again, to me, at the end of the day, all of this, it all comes back to feeling. We want to feel connected to our children. They want to feel confident. They want to feel proud of themselves. These are words that I hear from my clients.

It has more to do with what they're experiencing internally rather than the external. So we really have to come back to a place of how do we encourage them slowly to start either, you know, connecting with a mentor, connecting with a teacher, a best friend, a cousin, like a role model, somebody that really inspires them in their life. Like find them that person. If you still feel that, you know, there's stuff that you want to work on for yourself and just start having those conversations with them, start exposing them to a different language. This is what this is. And I feel like for a lot of people, like even leaning into that feels uncomfortable. And that's where the confidence is created. And I feel like that's the part that we often miss is to be emotionally uncomfortable is where you will start to build the resilience and the knowing and the evidence that you are in fact capable of overcoming anything in your life because what doesn't challenge you won't change you. So that's essentially what we're after.

Dr. Cam (14:02)

We are okay with those being really big. We're not okay with the other emotions. So when those emotions come up, allowing our kids to feel those emotions without trying to change them, without trying to fix them is part of what builds confidence because we are, especially teenagers, they are their emotions. that leads every day, they are living in their emotions. So when we tell them their emotions are wrong,

or we try to push back their emotions, we're telling them they're wrong, that something's wrong with them, that how they're feeling is not okay, which means they're not okay. And I think that's what I'm, then they don't trust themselves. They start going, well, if I'm feeling this way about this and I shouldn't, then I don't trust how I feel. So I don't trust myself. So there goes my confidence in my ability to understand what's going on.

Do you agree with that? .

Kristi Simons (16:01)

But yeah, so many of these different ways of being that once you're aware of them, you're like, my gosh, why didn't I know this before? it's a muscle though. This is the thing. It's a muscle. Like anything else in life that say we desire, I desire to run a full marathon this year. And I'm not going to lie to you. When I signed up, I was like, yeah, fully confident. Then throughout the year, holy gosh, it was a roller coaster. I was like, I don't think I can do this. Now I'm ready for sure. No, I can't do this. I was all over the map. But it really just came back to the person that I had to become along that journey and the overcoming of each and every emotion and each and every belief that was telling me that I couldn't or I shouldn't or whatever the case may be. Like once it finally came race day, it wasn't even so much crossing the finish line. Like I am looking back now thinking to myself like, yes, I did run and complete a full marathon. And I'm proud of myself for that, but I'm so much more proud of every small step that led me to that finish line along the way, because I was overcoming so much and I was proving to myself that I'm capable.

Dr. Cam (18:43)

Kristi Simons (20:25)

Dr. Cam (21:11)

Kristi Simons (21:24)

Dr. Cam (21:41)

Kristi Simons (22:24)

Dr. Cam (23:53)

Kristi Simons (23:59)

Dr. Cam (24:07)

Kristi Simons (25:06)

And it's just, makes you wonder like, you know, what thoughts they're thinking in their minds on a day to day basis. And so it's just, I feel like it's so important to be just kind with people because you don't know the battles that they are facing. And so, yeah, you just gotta keep, as much as it feels annoying, I promise you it's not, it'll be worth it. Just keep reinforcing the positive belief because it's like, it's there, it exists. You just have to make the choice to choose it.

Dr. Cam (26:51)

Kristi Simons (28:23)

But I feel like the in-between, like what we sometimes miss, which is why it makes it so hard to repair, is because we lack kindness for ourselves. We lack empathy for ourselves. So then our hurt just keeps projecting onto them. So it's really about healing ourselves. And I feel like this is one of the biggest things that needs to start happening for our teens. It's again, it's a lot of everybody's discomfort that gets in the way from them actually achieving.

Dr. Cam (28:53)

Kristi Simons (30:20)

Dr. Cam (30:21)

Anything that you want to make sure parents walk away with from this episode.

Kristi Simons (30:47)

And I feel like if you can just continuously remind yourself of that, you're already on the right track. And over time, once the language shifts, like everything just becomes easier.

Dr. Cam (31:42)

What can I learn from each time? What can I do differently today? What can I learn today to be a little bit better than I was yesterday? Then you're not failing. So I think I love that where we were does not define where we are now and where we're going to be able and where we can go.

Kristi Simons (33:11)

In that moment, here's a little tool for you, can use just literally start from like when they were like first born and take yourself like through like the years of you know, just their life so far and all of like your happiest memories, I promise you it will shift your energy in that moment and it will help you to make a more conscious and aware decision.

Dr. Cam (33:39)

Kristi Simons (33:52)

Dr. Cam (34:29)

Kristi Simons (34:52)

Dr. Cam (34:57)

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers expert advice, practical parenting strategies, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding.

#ParentingTeens #TeenConfidence #RaisingResilientTeens #TheTeenTranslator

In this episode, Dr. Cam sits down with Elaine Taylor-Klaus to explore the challenges and strategies for raising neurodiverse teens. Elaine shares her personal journey as a mom of neurodiverse kids and how she became a coach to help other parents. They discuss the shifting perceptions of ADHD and autism, the increasing diagnoses, and why neurodiversity should be seen as an evolutionary adaptation rather than a deficit. The conversation focuses on collaborative problem-solving, trust-building, and fostering teen autonomy, as well as the role of medication in supporting neurodiverse youth.

If this episode was helpful, share it with other parents and leave a rating and review! Your feedback helps us create more valuable content to support you and your teen.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:00)

Elaine is a true thought leader in the field of neurodiversity, co-founding the first global coaching communities for parents of complex kids through Impact ADHD and ImpactParents.com. She's dedicated her career to educating and empowering parents like us, and her insights are invaluable. Elaine is here to help us understand how to nurture our teens so they can thrive. So if you're ready to transform the way you support your neurodiverse teen, stick around.

This episode is going to be packed with essential advice you don't want to miss. Welcome, Elaine.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (00:58)

Dr. Cam (01:02)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (01:09)

Dr. Cam (01:18)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (01:29)

Dr. Cam (03:54)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (04:19)

And so everybody wanted, you didn't want an autism diagnosis. That was like a death sentence in those days. Now a provider, first of all, a provider doesn't have to make the choice. Both can be diagnosed and are very frequently. The correlation is very high. But now a parent can get better services with an autism diagnosis than an ADHD diagnosis and better support and compassion from their peers and friends and family. So now you've got people seeking a diagnosis that they used that 20 years ago they were avoiding. And I was one of them, right?

Dr. Cam (06:17)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (06:24)

Dr. Cam (07:17)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (07:29)

Dr. Cam (08:38)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (08:41)

And there's some online, I mean, it's way better. It's going to be easier 20 years from now to diagnose it than it is now. But there was a major smear campaign that was launched against ADHD in the late 90s and early 2000s. was multimillion dollars done by the same people who actually took on the tobacco industry. They went after teachers, they went after doctors, they went after school systems they demonized medication. And I'm not gonna go into the all of who was behind it because I don't need that lawsuit neither do you. But there is a podcast episode on my podcast on parenting with impact with Kelly Pickens talking about the smear campaign. So I think part of what we're still dealing with was that in the late 90s and early aughts, a lot of people were avoiding a diagnosis, providers were avoiding the diagnosis, parents didn't wanna get it or didn't want to use medication or try medication. So we all these adults now who were never identified and treated. And so that's kind of coming out of the woodwork. So that's kind of the context for what I think is going on. Now, what's the question?

Dr. Cam (10:10)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (11:03)

Dr. Cam (11:39)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (12:02)

Dr. Cam (12:38)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (12:57)

Dr. Cam (14:35)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (15:05)

Dr. Cam (15:10)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (15:46)

And when I'm here, I'm like bulletproof, I'm awesome. can be present and I can be engaged and I can go all day long. If I have to try to make dinner, I become like this really ridiculously weak, incapable adult. So I'm a specialist in this world. And when I can lean into my specialty, I can soar. But when I'm asked to perform as a generalist, when I'm expected to do well in science when I'm a language arts person. And then you only want me to focus on the science and the math because that's where my weakness is. So I should really work on that. And then you take me out of the art class that I'm really soaring in. Like it's counterintuitive, right? And so I do think, I think what, one of the things I've learned in the last few years, we've done a lot of work around neurodiversity education. I do training for corporate, do training for coaching groups on neurodiversity coaching, neurodiversity inclusion, and all that kind of stuff. And what I'm really clear at is that when you look at the full range of neurodiversity, it is probably about almost half the population. When you look at anxiety, ADHD, autism, depression, trauma, right? Let's just go to trauma for a minute and how many people in PTSD and how many people have had various trauma experiences in their lives. It rewires your brain. It may be circumstantial or situational. It may last, but everyone has some experience of being neurodivergent at some time. That's what neurodiversity is about. It's about all of our brains are wired different and some are not better than others.

Dr. Cam (18:34)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (18:51)

And it's kind of the all boats will rise philosophy, right? The notion is if you, you, what we do for people with neurodiversity, the education we provide, if we adapt a classroom for kids with neurodiversity or for kids with neurodivergence, it's going to serve all of the kids in the classroom, right? Everybody's going to do better if we create basic accommodations.

that give kids a sense of agency and autonomy and a voice, right? Everybody's gonna do better if we don't give them a ton of busy work and we help them learn what they need to learn without wasting their time. And so if we begin to see that, and this is the same in the workplace, everybody's gonna do better if we're onboarding somebody in a work environment and we find out, would you be better to communicate with this in text or video or like,

If we ask people how they process information and how they motivate themselves, and then we play to that, it's going to benefit everyone. So that's where I think we're going, but I think we've got a few decades before we actually get there. Yeah, well, you know, it takes some time.

Dr. Cam (20:34)

And that is not where their brain functions at its best. How do we as parents support our kids going through there without them feeling like they're broken, which happens quite a lot. And they're treated that way often in school. That's been a big issue for my daughter and I. How do we help them maintain that sense of self-esteem and that belief in themselves and help them find their strengths?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (21:30)

It's about cultivating a sense of agency, fostering their ownership and helping them see their why, what's in it for them. And, you know, collaborative problem solving, but not just what are the lacking skills, which is great, but still deficit based, right? But to say, okay, so I was, was working with a client this morning, her kids are younger. So maybe, maybe I can extrapolate this to a teenage example. Okay.

Because we do a lot of work with parents of teens and young adults. We have groups for parents of teens and groups for parents of young adults. You got a kid who's trying to get out the door to go to school, who wants to go to school, who is having a really hard time waking up in the morning. And maybe they don't want to go to school, and that's a different conversation. But let's assume you've gotten the relationship. So you lean into the relationship and you build some trust and you're communicating better. And you've gotten to the point where you're collaborating and they want to be able to get to school, but it's a struggle.

Okay, we all know the scenario. It happens a lot. Okay, so in our model, we talk about taking aim. So understand that what I've just said is the assumption that you've done a lot of work already. You've really leaned into the relationship. You've built trust because what happens with teens is we fall out of trust with them and they fall out of trust with us and they fall out of trust with themselves. So done that work and we're communicating better. So now we can begin to really collaborate.

So you start by taking aim, and instead of taking aim on mornings, you say, okay, what's the one thing that if we change that, it's gonna start having a cascading effect? What's the one tweak? And it might be getting out of bed when the alarm goes off. Okay, so they've set the alarm, the alarm's going off, you're walking by, you're trying not to yell and scream because they're not getting out of bed, and then you say, you gotta get out of bed, and then they get mad at you because you're already aggravated, right? We don't know the scenario at all, I'm sure.

So collaborative problem solving would be going to the kid and saying, I really get that you're trying to get out to go to school in the morning on time and that it's hard and that you're setting your alarm. How do you want me to handle it when I do hear the alarm going off and you haven't gotten out of bed? What would you like me to do? So now that you're not saying you need to, you're assuming that by this point you've been collaborating and now they've taken ownership. They've got the agency. They just need some help. How can I support you?

What would be useful for you? And this is a really true story. When we took this approach with my eldest at the time, who was maybe a little young, maybe 15, 14, 15. And after trying every alarm and the bed shaking alarm and the alarm that ran across the room, and we tried everything, Nothing was working. They said, don't you come in with a spray bottle? Now, a water bottle.

Kids don't try this at home. I am not suggesting to any of your parents that you go get a spray bottle and tell your kid you're going to. But this came from my kid, this idea, because they like to play and they're very playful with their father. And so we were like, OK, you sure? Yeah, I'm sure. Whatever. Right. So we get in there and I'm down in the kitchen one morning and I hear this really loud noise and it's like really loud and I go running upstairs and my husband and my child are hysterically laughing.

My child has got the corner of the bed by the hands on the ground and their dad's got their ankle and is pulling them across the floor and they're pulling the bed across the floor. Okay. And it's loud and they're cackling with laughter and they may have been late to school because we were having so much fun. Right. But, the notion here was that we were supporting them in their agenda of trying to get out of bed instead of making it our agenda.

So we need to want for them more than we want from them. And if we want for them to support them in their agenda, then we can do all kinds of crazy things because it's their agenda. And we're just experimenting with them and helping them try different things. But if it's our agenda and we're like, well, you need to set the alarm and put it across the room and you should be like, if our hands are on our hips, we're probably not collaborating, right?

Dr. Cam (26:24)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (26:28)

Everybody, right? That's right.

Well, it has to do with whose expectations is it, right? Because we have this tendency to assume that if we expect something or the world expects something of us and our kids, that that's the right thing. And the truth is, I mean, the big shift in my family happened when I stopped trying to listen to the world's expectations and I started meeting my kids where they were and figuring out what was an appropriate expectation to set for this kid at this time in this moment. Like that's the shift. It's meet them where they are and raise the bar from there. Instead of setting the bar up here because everybody should because they're 12 or 15 or 22, you know, like that just doesn't work.

Dr. Cam (27:12)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (27:24)

Dr. Cam (27:50)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (27:57)

So they came up with the idea that at a certain agreed upon time, instead of coming out and saying, you need to be downstairs in 10 minutes, dad would come out and give them the weather report. And when he gave the weather report, they knew what time it was. It gave them an idea of what to wear and they could manage their time around that. And I can't say it was a perfect fix immediately, but I can say that it worked and we used it for years because it was their idea was their agency, it worked for them. I wouldn't have come up with it, it was brilliant. Right?

Dr. Cam (28:58)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (29:08)

Dr. Cam (29:31)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (29:50)

Dr. Cam (29:57)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (30:06)

Dr. Cam (30:40)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (30:50)

Well, we have a podcast too. And if you're listening, you're probably a podcaster. So the Parenting with Impact podcast, wherever you podcast, where sometimes I interview experts, sometimes it's Diane and me, know, spitballing about what's been going on. Sometimes we have clients on and do success stories. So it's fun. we're coming up next year. We'll hit our 200th episode. So good podcast, great blog, great website, impactparents.com.

Lots of free gifts and downloads and you know come check us out if you are a parent of a complex kid of any age 4 to 44 There's lots of stuff to help you learn how to take a coach approach. That's neurodiversity informed And you know whether it's taking our sanity school class or joining coaching groups or listen to the podcast Come play with us

Dr. Cam (31:57)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (32:01)

Dr. Cam (32:07)

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (32:14)

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding.

#ParentingTeens #Neurodiversity #ADHDParenting #TeenConfidence