Psychologists Off the Clock

What do you do as a mental health provider when a client walks into your office and flat-out refuses to be there, is silent, or is disengaged?

In this episode, Michael chats with psychotherapist and Motivational Interviewing trainer Kristen Dempsey about her book, Advancing Motivational Interviewing, and how to actually navigate those cases.

They get into why Motivational Interviewing works so well when a client is stuck on the fence and how these skills end up being surprisingly useful outside the clinic, too. Kristen also breaks down how MI can help to build real connection early on, why our instinct to "fix" people almost always backfires, and how to work with mandated clients without getting into a power struggle. 

They also touch on practical group ideas, the whole concept of "lending hope," and how using MI might just save you from burning out. Tune in for the full chat!

Listen and Learn: 

• How Motivational Interviewing (MI) helps clients uncover their own internal motivation for change 
• Blending MI with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) to meet clients where they are and navigate ambivalence
• Practical strategies for handling mandated and disengaged clients with the use of "comfort agreements," and offering flexible participation options
• How practitioners can act as a "professional hoper" in Motivational Interviewing (MI) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) 
• How MI can prevent burnout and cultivate deeper curiosity, compassion, and presence in relationships 

Resources: 

• Advancing Motivational Interviewing: https://www.kristindempseycounseling.com/kristins-book-advancing-motivational
• Kristin’s Website: https://www.kristindempseycounseling.com 
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-dempsey-ed-d-lpcc-lmft-322812a/ 
• https://www.facebook.com/p/Kristin-L-Dempsey-LPCC-LMFT-100057356474362/
• https://www.instagram.com/kristin_d_author_trainer?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==&utm_source=qr 
• MI Macrostack Collaboration: https://substack.com/@ali1850709/note/p-194642379?r=1tfnrv&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action 
• Michael’s Confidence Course https://herold.coach/course  

About Kristin Dempsey

Kristin Dempsey is a psychotherapist, trainer, and counselor educator in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has over 30 years’ experience working with individuals, youth, and families with challenging behavioral issues that impact their lives, such as substance use disorders, co-occurring mental health and substance use disorders, trauma symptoms, and unresolved grief. Kristin believes that each individual has unlimited ability to change and grow, and she enjoys exploring the complexities of complex challenges and how to approach them with compassion and curiosity. Kristin has taught many classes in the counselor education curriculum, and she is currently focused on practitioner skill development, substance use disorder treatment, and effective practices in community mental health. Kristin is a member of the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT), and she currently teaches motivational interviewing to behavioral health and other allied human services professionals. She is an adjunct professor at the Wright Institute’s Counseling Psychology Program and lecturing faculty at San Francisco State University. Kristin is the author of The Harm Reduction Workbook for Addiction (New Harbinger, 2024), co-author of Advancing Motivational Interviewing: An Experiential Skills Guide for Mental Health Professionals (PESI, April 2026), and a writer for The Mental Health and Substance Use Recovery Workbook (New Harbinger, May 2027).

Related Episodes:

• 135. Power of Empathy and Motivational Interviewing with Stephen Rollnick
• 66. Helping People Change Using Motivational Interviewing With Nadine Mastroleo
• 402. Harm Reduction for Addiction with Kristin Dempsey

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Don't stress over parenting advice, as much of it is based on clickbait, panic, and outdated science.

In this episode, we hear from science journalists and experts Melinda Wenner Moyer, Tracy Dennis-Tiwary, Jacqueline Nesi in a conversation with Emily on how to spot actual, trustworthy parenting guidance amid all the online noise.

Dismantling the myth of the "one-size-fits-all" approach, they explain why classic research was always meant to be flexible and why anyone claiming there is only one right way is usually just selling something. 

You'll also learn about the deep flaws in historical parenting studies and what modern research is getting right, as well as the viral panic surrounding screen time, extreme media narratives, and the real risks AI companions pose to kids' emotional growth. 

If you’d appreciate a reassuring, reality-based sanity check on modern parenting so you can tune out the fear and focus on what actually works for your family, tune in for this episode on Parenting Science in the Media.

Listen and Learn: 

• How parenting advice moved past simple "good vs. bad" rules to look at how things like culture, environment, and everyday context actually shape what works 
• Calling out rigid parenting advice, spotting the red flags, and breaking down why real child science actually depends on the context
• Biases in parenting science and leaning into "goodness of fit" to figure out what actually works for your specific kid  
• How nuanced, multi-method science often gets distorted by media algorithms and fear-based messaging and how to spot misleading science headlines 
• How kids are actively using AI, why vulnerable or unfulfilled kids are most at risk of over-dependence, and how parents can guide their children through open communication rather than strict bans 
• Positive trends in youth resilience and self-control, how modern parenting shifts drive these improvements, and why adults in every generation fall victim to the cognitive bias that "kids these days" are doomed 

Resources: 

•  jacquelinenesi.com 
• melindawennermoyer.com 
• https://www.tracydennistiwary.com/
•  technosapiens.substack.com 
• https://tracydennistiwary.substack.com
•  melindawmoyer.substack.com. 
• The Kids Are All Right, Scientific American article by Melinda
• Tracy’s Book Review in the New York Times
• The Most Elusive Part of Modern Parenting, Emily’s Substack (if you hit a paywall, just email Emily for a free link - [email protected])

About Melinda Wenner Moyer, Jacqueline Nesi and Tracy Dennis-Tiwary 

Melinda Wenner Moyer - Melinda Wenner Moyer is an award-winning science journalist and author. She’s a contributing editor at Scientific American magazine and a regular contributor at The New York Times. She’s the author of How to Raise Kids Who Aren’t Assholes and Hello, Cruel World! She also writes the popular parenting Substack Now What. 

Jacqueline Nesi - Jacqueline Nesi, PhD, is a Clinical Psychologist, Associate Professor at Brown University, and author of the popular weekly newsletter Techno Sapiens. Her research focuses on the role of technology in kids’ mental health (especially teens), and on how parents can help.

Tracy Dennis-Tiwary, PhD, is a clinical psychologist, professor, researcher, mental health tech entrepreneur, and AI safety advisor. Her research focuses on the intersection between digital technology and mental health. She writes about growing up and growing old in the digital age in news outlets like the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Washington Post, as well as on her Substack The Future of Sanity.  She is author of the book Future Tense: Why Anxiety is Good for You (Even Though it Feels Bad). 

Related Episodes:

• 464. Dad Brain with Darby Saxbe
• 428. How to Fall in Love with Questions with Elizabeth Weingarten
• 409. Raising Terrific Kids in Terrifying Times with Melinda Wenner Moyer
• 382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health
• 319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with Emily Edlynn
• 307. Navigating Social Media As a Parent with Cara Goodwin
• 266. Future Tense with Tracy Dennis-Tiwary
• 253. Free-Range Kids with Lenore Skenazy
• 214. How to Raise Kids Who Aren’t Jerks with Melinda Wenner Moyer

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We spend an exhausting amount of energy trying to outrun our own difficult thoughts and feelings.

For this episode, Jill Stoddard brings back ACT therapist, trainer, and author of The Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Skills Workbook, Matt Boone for a refreshingly grounded look at Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. Matt shares how his own path through chronic pain led him to ACT, breaking down why trying to "fix" uncomfortable inner experiences usually backfires.

You'll hear about why we procrastinate, how to unhook from spiral-inducing thoughts, and how to get unstuck when uncertainty feels overwhelming. Plus, Matt shares how ACT helps therapists dodge burnout. 

Join us for this practical guide to making peace with the noise in your head so you can finally move toward what actually matters.

Listen to POTC ad-free for just $5 a month by becoming a Mega Supporter on Patreon! Or, support the podcast with a one-time donation at Buy Me A Coffee!

Listen and Learn: 

• How ACT moves away from trying to "fix" or eliminate difficult emotions, teaching people to live alongside their pain so they can focus energy on what truly matters 
• Matt’s personal journey from chronic pain patient to ACT therapist, exploring how real-life experiences shaped their approach to therapy and led to designing experiential ACT training courses 
• How Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) shifts the focus from managing symptom scores to creating meaningful, real-world behavior changes through experiential, values-based action 
• Why "we hurt where we care," how procrastination and avoidance function to give us short-term relief, and how reconnecting with your deeper "why" can help you step through discomfort toward a full life 
• How to define values as actionable, ongoing ways of being rather than fixed feelings, and discover practical tools 
• Aligning small everyday actions with your values to allow you to act with intention, kindness, and self-acceptance, even in hard moments 
• Major clinical hurdles and creative, practical exercises to act in alignment with your values anyway 
• How mindfulness allows you to step back and observe unhelpful thoughts without getting tangled up in them or taking them as "capital-T truth 
• Why arguing with your mind often backfires, how to shift focus from thought content to thought impact, and why taking a "leap of faith" empowers you to take meaningful action aligned with your values 

Resources: 

• The Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Skills Workbook https://www.matthewsboone.com/acceptance-commitment-therapy-skills-workbook
• Matt's Website https://www.matthewsboone.com/
• Connect with Matt on Social Mediahttps://www.facebook.com/matthew.boone.794/about
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewsboone
• https://www.praxiscet.com 
• 
  

About Matt Boone: 

Matt Boone is a social worker, psychotherapist, and author who specializes in translating mental health concepts for the general public. His books include The Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Skills Workbook, co-authored with Jennifer Gregg, and Stop Avoiding Stuff: 25 Microskills to Face Your Fears and Do It Anyway, co-authored with Jennifer Gregg and Lisa Coyne.

He is the Associate Director at the Student Wellness Program (SWP) of the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences (UAMS) and Instructor in the Department of Psychiatry. As the Clinical Director of Mental Health Coaching at Lyra Health, he oversaw the clinical development of Lyra’s mental health coaching program and offered workshops and webinars on mental health topics to workers in the tech industry. Lyra partners with eBay, Lyft, Uber, Servicenow and others to provide evidence-based care to their employees.

At Cornell University, he oversaw the development of Let's Talk, an outreach program that has since been replicated at nearly 100 other colleges and universities. 

He lives and works in Little Rock, Arkansas with his wife, guitars, and cats, Giorgia (a sassy Tortie) and Finley (a gentle giant orange kitty with a superhuman -- or superkitten-- capacity for empathy).

Related Episodes:

• 77. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy with Jill Stoddard
• 106. Therapy from “The Heart of ACT” with Robyn Walser
• 116. Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune
• 121. Be Mighty: An Episode for Stressed Out, Worried Women with Jill Stoddard
• 128. ACT for Food Restriction and Anorexia with Rhonda Merwin
• 190. ACT for Suicide Prevention with Sean Barnes
• 195. ACT Daily with Diana Hill and Debbie Sorensen
• 226. ACT for Perfectionism with Jennifer Kemp
• 279. ACT for Healing Black Racial Trauma with Jennifer Shepard Payne
• 301. Seven Daily ACT Practices for Living Fully with Diana Hill and Debbie Sorensen
• 313. ACT-Informed Exposure for Anxiety with Brian Pilecki and Brian Thompson
• 338. ACT for Burnout with Debbie!

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sometimes saving the planet can feel like a massive, exhausting guilt trip. 

In this episode, Debbie sits down with University of British Columbia professors Elizabeth Dunn and Jiaying Zhao to talk about their book, Leave the Lights On: How Joyful Decisions Can Save Our Species. 

Their main point is about the whole "you must be perfect" climate messaging is totally backfiring, and focusing on joyful, high-impact changes is actually what keeps people motivated. Jiaying breaks down a massive 63-country study showing how scare tactics just make people want to shut down, and the duo debunks some common eco-myths.

It turns out that obsessing over turning off the lights or choosing the perfect reusable bag doesn't move the needle much. Instead, they shout out smarter, high-leverage moves like treating beef and lamb as occasional splurges, eating more plants, and traveling lighter. 

They also get into how to influence the people around you by making sustainable choices easy, attractive, and non-political, proving that individual habits and big systemic changes (like voting) both matter.

Listen and Learn: 

• How "doom and gloom" climate messaging actually backfires by discouraging real-world action
• Surprising insights from a massive global study of 60,000 participants across 63 countries
• Finding joyful, climate-friendly lifestyle changes to create a positive feedback loop that makes us happier and more motivated to protect the planet 
• How making practical, high-impact shifts in your daily habits like smarter food choices can create a truly sustainable difference for both you and the planet
• Data-backed truth behind common environmental myths and how to easily focus your energy on the daily lifestyle choices that actually make a high-impact difference for the planet  
• How to significantly lower your carbon footprint without sacrificing the foods you love
• Reducing your carbon footprint without giving up the joy of travel by mastering the art of packing light, making smarter flight choices, and embracing the unexpected adventure of staycations 
• How to inspire positive behavior change in others without lecturing them on climate change 
• Why individual action and systemic change are not a false dichotomy, but rather a powerful partnership where local community engagement can drive larger policy shifts and boost your personal happiness 

Resources: 

• Leave the Lights On: How Joyful Decisions Can Save Our Species
• www.happyclimate.org 
• Book Debbie mentioned: Soil: The Story of a Black Mother's Garden, by Camille T. Dungy
• Debbie’s essay about the drought in Denver, with pictures of her low-water garden: https://drdebbiesorensen.substack.com/p/drought-dispatches-from-denver 

About Elizabeth Dunn 

Elizabeth Dunn is Professor of Psychology at the University of British Columbia and coauthor of Happy Money. She directs UBC’s Happy Lab, which focuses on how to optimize valuable resources including time, money, and carbon to maximize human well-being. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The Atlantic, TIME, Rolling Stone, and Harvard Business Review; and on numerous podcasts and television shows, including Hidden Brain, NPR’s Short Wave, The Happiness Lab, Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris, Morning Joe, and CBS Mornings. Dunn spoke on the TED mainstage in 2019, and her talk was selected as one of the top ten TED talks of the year.

About Jiaying Zhao

Jiaying Zhao (JZ) is Professor of Psychology and Sustainability and founded the Behavioral Sustainability Lab at the University of British Columbia, which designs and tests behavioral solutions that encourage climate action. She has worked with NASA, NOAA, and the US and Canadian Forest Service to develop pathways to net zero. Zhao has appeared on numerous podcasts and in documentary films, including Why Is This Happening? With Chris Hayes and Close the Divide. Her research has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, TIME, The Economist, Scientific American, CNN, and NBC. In 2023, Zhao gave a TED talk on climate strategies rooted in happiness, which was selected as one of the top TED Talks to be a better you in 2024.

Related Episodes:

• 262. Hope and Values in Dark Times with Us 
• 255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance 
• 215. How to Change with Katy Milkman 
• 371. Uniting Toward a Better Future with Diana McLain Smith 
• 431. Ordinary Magic: Social Psychology for Big Change with Gregory Walton 

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Are we being lied to about the science of attraction?

In this episode, UC Davis relationship scientist and author of Bonded by Love: The New Science of Human Attachment, Paul Eastwick, challenges the massive online narratives around "mate value," hardwired gender differences, and dating strategies. It turns out a lot of the viral relationship theories we see online are built on shaky evidence, relying on photos and surveys rather than real, live human interaction.

Paul explains why what we say we want on paper almost never predicts who we actually fall for in person. He redefines compatibility not as a rigid trait-matching algorithm, but as something unique that two people construct together over time.

If you're ready to look past the internet's rigid dating rules and see how attraction actually works in the wild, tune in.

[And if you are interested in pre-ordering Yael’s book, Why Don’t You Understand Me?, this link will take you to the larger booksellers, while THIS link will take you to her pre-order bonus form. Thank you for supporting Yael’s book launch! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeq8tfQnl1o5GvfxrIrDzeOFtIvB8E16czMKajY3B8IDy1oww/viewform]

Listen and Learn:

• The "Evo script" and the popular, outdated evolutionary psychology myths that dominate modern dating advice and why the latest science challenges its assumptions about mate value, gender differences, and relationship strategies 
• Why popular evolutionary psychology models fail to predict real-world relationship success, and learn how relationship science reveals a far less competitive and much more hopeful reality of how we actually choose and stay with our partners 
• Why the way we evaluate romantic partners on paper or dating apps is completely different from how we judge them in person 
• The surprising scientific truth that our abstract checklists for a romantic partner rarely predict real compatibility, discovering instead how long-term satisfaction is built through shared experiences rather than finding someone who matches a mental template 
• How actual data debunks extreme evolutionary psychology scripts about gender differences, revealing that men and women are much more aligned in their romantic and sexual desires than popular media and online advice suggest 
• Why the concept of "mate value" and physical attractiveness only matter for short-term dating and initial impressions, while true long-term relationship success depends on compatibility that partners uniquely construct together rather than a predictable algorithm 
• How relationship satisfaction and compatibility are not predetermined by matching personality traits, but are instead actively constructed through vulnerability, open-minded interactions, and the unpredictable connections built within real-world social networks 
• Why platonic friendships between heterosexual men and women are not only entirely possible but also deeply enriching, mind-expanding, and a proven positive predictor for finding a romantic partner in the long run 
• The major drawbacks of online dating, learn why you should wait until the third date before making a decision, and find out how a "failed" date can actually help you find your next match 

Resources:

• Bonded by Love: The New Science of Human Attachment https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593593981
• https://www.lovefactuallypod.com/
• http://pauleastwick.com/pauleastwick 
• https://linktr.ee/pauleastwick 

About Paul Eastwick

Paul Eastwick is a professor of psychology at UC Davis, where he runs the Attraction and Relationships Research Laboratory. His work sits at the intersection of evolutionary psychology, social psychology, and close relationships research, meaning he has spent his career asking why people fall for who they fall for, and whether the stories we tell ourselves about that process hold up to scientific scrutiny.

His new book, Bonded by Love: The New Science of Human Attachment, makes a sweeping argument: the dominant narrative about human mating — attraction as hierarchy, competition, genetic optimization — isn't just incomplete. It's wrong in ways that matter. The real science of how humans form lasting bonds is, if anything, more interesting and more hopeful than what we've been sold.

His research has been funded by the National Science Foundation, he sits on the editorial boards of several major psychology journals, and he has the rare combination of scientific rigor and personal candor. Paul is also the co-host of Love Factually, a podcast he runs with Northwestern relationship researcher Eli Finkel, which fact-checks Hollywood rom-coms one movie at a time (and which happens to be one of Yael’s favorite binge-listens).

Related Episodes:

• 63. The Ape That Understood the Universe with Steve Stewart-Williams
• 92. Marriage in Midlife with Daphne de Marneffe
• 179. How to Be an Adult in Relationships with Dave Richo
• 248. Let’s Talk about Sex & Intimacy with Zoë Kors 
• 397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Cordova

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

For some people, stories are entertainment; for others, they can be a lifeline.

Janina Scarlet, licensed clinical psychologist, author, and founder of Divine Feminine Publishing, returns to discuss her work promoting books with strong female and gender-diverse representation. She shares how surviving illness after Chernobyl, along with physical and sexual abuse, led her to find comfort in stories and eventually become a writer. 

The conversation covers the challenges of writing about personal experiences, the importance of reading widely, separating drafting from editing, and protecting creativity. Janine also talks about researching and writing her Holocaust novel, Through Bullets and Thunderstorms, based on her grandmother’s survival in Ukraine. 

Listen and Learn: 

• How surviving childhood trauma, abuse, and the aftermath of Chernobyl shaped Janina’s drive to write, revealing how fictional characters can serve as vital support systems and how shared vulnerability allows us to step into each other's worlds to find hope and healing
• How sharing our deepest, most vulnerable personal stories is an act of courage that fosters post-traumatic growth and acts as a powerful reminder to others that they are not alone 
• Kickstarting your writing journey by reading your target market and separating the creative writing process from the analytical editing phase 
• Why giving up prematurely is a beginner's biggest mistake and how learning to "embrace the mess" of an imperfect first draft is the true secret to finishing your book 
• How to break out of the research "bottomless pit" when writing about unfamiliar topics by leveraging interviews with experts and people with lived experience to craft authentic, deeply nuanced fiction 
• The raw and deeply personal story behind Janina’s book, Through Bullets and Thunderstorms: Our Holocaust Survival Pact 

Resources: 

• Through Bullets and Thunderstorms: A Holocaust Survival Pact https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9798992940404
• https://www.superhero-therapy.com/
• https://divinefeminine-publishing.com/
• https://writingtheother.com/ 
• Michael’s Confidence Course https://herold.coach/course  
• I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780808510574 
• The Artist's Way https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780143129257 

About Dr. Janina Scarlet

Dr. Janina Scarlet (she/her) is a licensed clinical psychologist, author, a neurodivergent, queer person with a disability, and founder of the Divine Feminine indie book publishing company. She has authored eighteen books and written chapters for twenty others.

Dr. Scarlet is the recipient of the Eleanor Roosevelt Human Rights Award from the United Nations Association. She regularly consults on books and television shows, including HBO’s Young Justice. She was also interviewed for Marvel’s MPower series and was portrayed as a comic book character in Gail Simone’s Seven Days graphic novel.

Dr. Scarlet’s goal is to promote books featuring at least 50% female and/or gender-diverse characters because when women and gender-diverse people have greater representation in fiction, it empowers them to have a stronger voice in real life.

Related Episodes

• 325. Unseen, Unheard, Undervalued with Janina Scarlet
• 275. Work parent thrive with Yael
• 345. Writing for Personal Growth with Maureen Murdock

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We’ve all been there: you’re scrolling through your feed, watching someone bake sourdough from scratch in a pristine linen dress, and suddenly your own life feels incredibly messy and chaotic. 

In this episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, Debbie and Emily are pulling back the curtain on the hyper-curated worlds of social media influencers, reality TV, and the massive "tradwife" trend.

Grab your headphones and get ready for a much-needed reality check on why we need to be way more skeptical of what we see on our screens.

Listen and Learn: 

• What happened when Debbie fell down a Ballerina Farm rabbit hole
• How glamorous images of the past conveniently leave out the harsh realities of history, like poverty, oppression, and environmental harm
• How reality shows feed us false ideals, driving us into a spiral of social comparison and reinforcing toxic, patriarchal beauty standards
• Why chasing these unrealistic lifestyles actually hurts our well-being
• The rise of fear-based pseudoscience, MLMs, and totally unqualified "mental health influencers" who are just looking for clicks

Resources: 

• Debbie’s recent Substack post on Tradwife Influencers: https://open.substack.com/pub/drdebbiesorensen/p/trad-wife-influencers-reflections
• The critique Debbie mentioned about how making cereal from scratch is a leisure class activity: https://www.tiktok.com/@professorneil/video/7339254814578150661 
• Maintenance Phase podcast: https://www.maintenancephase.com/ 
• The Dream podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc28XHKS2jY

About Debbie Sorensen

Debbie (she/her) is a clinical psychologist in private practice in Denver, Colorado with a bachelor’s degree in Psychology and Anthropology from the University of Colorado, Boulder, and a Ph.D. in Psychology from Harvard University. She is author of the book ACT for Burnout: Recharge, Reconnect, and Transform Burnout with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and co-author of ACT Daily Journal: Get Unstuck and Live Fully with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. She loves living in Colorado, her home state, with her husband, two daughters, and dog. When she’s not busy working or podcasting, she enjoys reading fiction, cooking, traveling, and getting outdoors in the beautiful Rocky Mountains! You can learn more about Debbie, read her blog, and find out about upcoming presentations and training events at her webpage, drdebbiesorensen.com.

About Emily Edlynn

Emily (she/her) is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in pediatric health psychology who works in private practice with children, teens, and adults. She has a BA in English from Smith College, a PhD in clinical psychology from Loyola University Chicago, and completed postgraduate training at Stanford and Children’s Hospital Orange County. Emily spent almost ten years working in children’s hospitals before pivoting to private practice, which allowed her to start a writing career. Emily has written her blog, The Art and Science of Mom, since 2017 and a parenting advice column for Parents.com since 2019. Emily’s writing has also appeared in the Washington Post, Scary Mommy, Good Housekeeping, Motherly, and more. She recently added author to her bio with her book, Autonomy-Supportive Parenting: Reduce Parental Burnout and Raise Competent Confident Children and has a Substack newsletter. Emily lives with her husband, three children, and two rescue dogs in Oak Park, IL where she can see Chicago’s skyline from her attic window.    

Related Episodes: 

• 295. Buyer Beware: Pseudoscience and the Wellness Industry, featuring Pooja Lakshmin 
• 390. Raising Empowered Girls in a Sexist World with Jo-Ann Finkelstein 
• 311. Nobody’s Fool with Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris – Psychologists Off the Clock
• 307. Navigating Social Media As a Parent with Cara Goodwin 
• 433. Rethinking Screens and Video Games with Ash Brandin 
• 382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health 
• 429. May Contain Lies with Alex Edmans 

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We’ve been told forever that women are the only natural caregivers, but neuroscience shows that’s just not true; men actually go through huge biological shifts when they become dads, too.

Sitting down with Emily for this episode is clinical psychologist Darby Saxbe, who chats to us about her book Dad Brain: The New Science of Fatherhood and How It Shapes Men’s Lives, which challenges neo-traditional assumptions about parenting roles. 

Their conversation highlights the biological reality of fatherhood, exploring how men experience hormonal shifts, brain changes, and even paternal postpartum depression. 

Darby also uncovers how hands-on parenting trends are shifting across generations, the connection between relationship conflict and a dad's mental health, and how policy changes like paid paternity leave can transform modern family dynamics.

Listen and Learn:

• How the modern science of fatherhood rewrites traditional gender roles, why the "Dad Brain" is biologically wired for caregiving, and how millennial and Gen Z fathers are redefining the rewards and divides of modern parenting
• The concept of "facultative adaptation" and how it shapes the natural variability of fatherhood 
• How a father's brain and body prepare for parenthood during pregnancy
• How a couple’s relationship conflict during pregnancy can directly impact the labor and delivery experience  
• Why the prenatal period is a critical window for couples to proactively strengthen their communication, navigate relationship shifts, and better manage the stress and emotional toll of childbirth and early parenthood 
• The ways postpartum depression manifests in new dads 
• How a father's hormone levels naturally drop after birth and why high testosterone can unexpectedly strain romantic relationships and parenting 
• The unique benefits of the father-child relationship 
• Why we need to view men's mental health through a family lens 
• How progressive policy shifts are working to empower and destigmatize active fatherhood 

Resources: 

• Dad Brain: The New Science of Fatherhood and How It Shapes Men’s Lives https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781250387523 
• Darby’s Website: https://www.darbysaxbe.com
• Darby’s Substack: https://darbysaxbe.substack.com
• Connect with Darby on Social Media: 
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/darbysaxbe
• https://www.instagram.com/darbysaxbephd/
• Behind Every Dad Bod is a Healthy Dad Brain https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/06/opinion/dad-brain-health-fatherhood.html

About Darby Saxbe

Darby Saxbe, PhD, is a clinical psychologist and tenured full professor of psychology at the University of Southern California.

She has published over eighty scientific articles in peer-reviewed journals and secured major research grants from the National Institutes of Health and National Science Foundation. She earned awards from the American Psychological Association and the Society for Research in Child Development and was a Fulbright fellow. Dr. Saxbe received her PhD in clinical psychology from UCLA and her BA in English and psychology from Yale University.

Her research focuses on the transition to parenthood, particularly the neural and hormonal underpinnings of fatherhood. She integrates neuroscience and psychology to explore how close connections shape health and wellbeing.

When she is not doing research, she hangs out with her husband and two kids, plays guitar in an all-mom indie rock band, and writes the Substack newsletter, Natal Gazing. She was a mediocre contestant on the show Who Wants to Be A Millionaire and recently lost a chili cookoff.

Related Episodes:

• 446. Cognitive Household Labor with Allison Daminger
• 445. The Unexpected Magic of Caring with Elissa Strauss
• 361. Dudes and Dads: Men’s Mental Health with Danny Singley
• 206. Fair Play Part 2 with Eve Rodsky
• 176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky

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When a survivor speaks up, the world too often demands a 'perfect victim' before it offers belief, a painful reality that leaves many wondering if their truth will ever be enough. 

In this episode with Deborah Tuerkheimer, author of Credible: Why We Doubt Accusers and Protect Abusers, we hear about the “credibility complex,” including credibility discount and credibility inflation, rape myths, the “perfect victim” and “monster abuser” archetypes, and how victim-blaming and disbelief are reinforced by culture and legal rules. 

You’ll also learn about underreporting, the “second assault,” trauma-informed investigation, expert testimony on trauma dynamics, and how loved ones can respond supportively when someone discloses abuse. Listen in to understand why credibility judgments are patterned and how believing, validating, and offering help can change what happens next. 

Listen and Learn: 

• The credibility complex and how social power dynamics cause the credibility of marginalized individuals to be discounted while powerful individuals receive an inflated boost
• Why society perpetuates rape myths and victim-blaming 
• How the "perfect victim" myth is weaponized against survivors in the legal system 
• How institutional disbelief and victim-blaming are systemic realities baked into the penal code
• Why cultural tropes and a deep-seated "care gap" cause society to minimize astronomical statistics, overstate the prevalence of false reports, and prioritize the futures of perpetrators over the lives of victims 
• How the cultural myth of the "monster abuser" prevents fair credibility judgments by creating a false archetype of a deviant stranger 
• How the justice system creates an institutional imbalance by weaponizing an accuser's personal history while shielding a perpetrator’s past behavior 
• How physical attractiveness acts as a "Goldilocks" trap for victims' credibility
• Why true progress relies on upending a systemic culture of impunity rather than relying solely on institutional training 

Resources: 

• Credible: Why We Doubt Accusers and Protect Abusers https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780063002760
• Deborah’s Website: https://www.deborahtuerkheimer.com

About Deborah Tuerkheimer

Deborah Tuerkheimer is a professor at Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law. She earned her undergraduate degree from Harvard College and her law degree from Yale Law School. Tuerkheimer served for five years as an Assistant District Attorney in the New York County District Attorney's Office, where she specialized in domestic violence and child abuse prosecution. She teaches and writes in the areas of criminal law, evidence, and feminist legal theory. She is also the author of CREDIBLE: Why We Doubt Accusers and Protect Abusers (Harper Wave/HarperCollins).

Related Episodes:

• 19. Keeping Children Safe from Sexual Abuse with Feather Berkower
• 84. Courageous Conversations to Prevent Childhood Sexual Abuse with Feather Berkower
• 163. The Likeability Trap with Alicia Menendez
• 394. Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant with Andrea Dunlop and Mike Weber
• 399. Likable Badass with Alison Fragale
• 421. Defy with Sunita Sah
• 436. Consent Laid Bare with Chanel Contos
• 448. The Power of Oversharing with Leslie John

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It’s easy to live life on autopilot, with your eyes glued to a screen, completely disconnected from your physical surroundings. 

But as we learn in this episode with Leidy Klotz, the spaces you inhabit aren't just backdrops; they are actively shaping your mind, moods, and memories. 

Talking about Leidy’s latest book, In a Good Place, you’ll hear about Leidy’s framework of agency, growth, and belonging; why attention to physical environments matters in an age of screens and automation; how workplaces and homes can support different needs through thoughtful choice and design; and how spaces anchor powerful memories.

Listen and Learn: 

• Modern automation and screen time are subtly changing the way you interact with your physical surroundings and how you can intentionally reclaim your agency in the environments you navigate every day 
• Why some modern architectural choices and environmental distractions might actually be making it harder for you to form genuine connections with the people right in front of you 
• Breaking through modern habits, tune out your digital devices, and actively re-engage with the world around you 
• How different personality types navigate physical environments
• How having personal agency and direct control over one's space profoundly increases comfort levels 
• Allowing spaces to serve as powerful physical conduits for processing grief, honoring lost loved ones, and preserving their spirit through physical landmarks 

Resources: 

• Subtract The Untapped Science of Less https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781250249876
• In a Good Place: How the Spaces Where We Live,  Work, and Play Can Help Us Thrive https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780316567367
• Jill’s newsletter post about the sweet spot: https://jillstoddard.substack.com/p/the-one-question-that-can-unlock?utm_source=publication-search  
• Leidy’s website: https://leidyklotz.com/  

About Leidy Klotz: 

Leidy Klotz is a professor at the University of Virginia whose research sits at the intersection of physical design and behavioral science. Before academia, he designed schools in New Jersey — and before that, he played professional soccer. A man who has never met a lane he wasn't willing to cross.

His first book, Subtract, uncovered our systematic bias toward adding rather than removing, and what we lose in the process. His latest, In a Good Place: How the Spaces Where We Live, Work, and Play Can Help Us Thrive, explores how the spaces we inhabit quietly shape how we think, feel, and connect — usually without our awareness. It's also a deeply personal book whose emotional resonance defies easy summary.

Related Episodes:

• 182. Stretch with Scott Sonenshein 
• 211. Subtract with Leidy Klotz

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.