The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk has become a go-to book for understanding trauma, but not everyone agrees with its approach. 

In this episode, journalist and author of Acceptance: A Memoir, Emi Nietfeld joins us to talk about The Body Keeps the Score and how it influenced the world of trauma therapy. Bringing both her personal experience and sharp insight to the table, she enlightens us on trauma treatment and why popular narratives around resilience and recovery often miss the mark, especially when they lean more on storytelling than science.

We get into where the book falls short, especially around science and why proven methods like CBT and prolonged exposure therapy deserve more attention. Emi also opens up about how those treatments personally changed her life.

It’s an honest look at trauma, what really works, and how we can do better, both personally and as a society.

Listen and Learn:

• Why true resilience isn't about toughness alone but about community, care, and real support systems
• How the mental health system often fails kids by ignoring family dysfunction and why real change starts with seeing the full context, not just labeling the child
• Why positive thinking isn't enough for trauma recovery and how validating, supportive therapy makes all the difference when you're ready to speak your truth
• Avoiding trauma memories in therapy can cause more harm and what effective healing requires
• How popular trauma books like “The Body Keeps the Score” can fuel shame
• Challenging the "addicted to trauma" label and how oversimplified narratives can stigmatize survivors and ignore systemic causes of violence
• How trauma research can be misrepresented, especially about cognitive behavioral therapy’s real effectiveness
• Using structured prolonged exposure therapy to help you safely face trauma and build resilience
• Writing a memoir can unearth painful truths, but honest storytelling sparks real healing and self-acceptance
• Why popular trauma books feel like belief systems—and why we need solutions beyond therapy

Resources: 

• Emi’s Book Acceptance: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593489499 
• Emi’s website https://www.eminietfeld.com/ and her Substack https://eminietfeld.substack.com/ 
• Connect with Emi on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/emi-nietfeld/ and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/eminietfeld/ 
• Mother Jones article: https://www.motherjones.com/media/2024/12/trauma-body-keeps-the-score-van-der-kolk-psychology-therapy-ptsd/ 
• Slate article: https://slate.com/technology/2024/08/sexual-assault-treatment-talk-therapy-prolonged-exposure-recovery.html
• Article mentioned on trauma theory as a belief system: https://beiner.substack.com/p/the-truth-about-trauma-bessel-van

About Emi Nietfield

Emi Nietfeld is an author, journalist, and speaker. She is the author of Acceptance (Penguin Press ‘22), a memoir of her journey through foster care and homelessness, interrogating the true meanings of resilience, ambition, and success. After graduating from Harvard in 2015, she worked as a software engineer, an experience she wrote about in her viral New York Times essay, “After Working At Google, I’ll Never Let Myself Love a Job Again.”

She’s passionate about mental health, helping young people navigate their careers, and the connection between engineering and creativity. A dynamic, sought-after speaker, she can be found on podcasts, leading conference keynotes, and speaking at universities and companies alike.

Her essays have appeared in The New York Times, New York Magazine, The Atlantic,  and other publications, been nominated for the Pushcart Prize, noted in The Best American Essays, and taught in classrooms from high schools to MFA programs.

Related Episodes: 

• 416. Trauma and PTSD Treatment with Robyn Walser
• 383. What My Bones Know: C-PTSD with Stephanie Foo
• 279. ACT for Healing Black Racial Trauma with Jennifer Shepard Payne 
• 313. ACT-Informed Exposure for Anxiety with Brian Pilecki and Brian Thompson
• 355. What is EMDR with Jamie Marich 
• 77. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy with Jill Stoddard    

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Trauma and PTSD leave a lasting imprint on how we see ourselves and navigate the world, which is why Debbie sits down with returning guest Dr. Robyn Walser for this episode, a clinical psychologist and expert in evidence-based treatment for PTSD, to explore the path to trauma recovery. 

Robyn unpacks the principles of exposure therapy, the importance of processing traumatic experiences, and insights from her new book, which she co-authored with Darrah Westrup, You Are Not Your Trauma. 

This conversation offers a deep understanding of PTSD, the wide-ranging effects of trauma, and how healing involves redefining one’s relationship to past events rather than being retraumatized by them.

Listen and Learn:

• Breaking free from trauma’s grip and reconnecting with the deeper, fuller self beyond it
• Why understanding the true meaning of trauma matters and how misusing the word can impact healing
• Understanding how trauma, whether single events or complex, can cause avoidance, disrupt life, and impact relationships
• How trauma’s fear cycle traps you and how changing your relationship to thoughts frees you to live again
• Reclaiming your life by embracing fear and living your values fully through trauma recovery in ACT
• Embracing the natural flow of trauma memories helps you process and regain freedom
• Using written exposure therapy helps you safely process trauma by revisiting and writing about it
• How structured, flexible exposure therapy in Robyn and Darrah’s new book, You Are Not Your Trauma, helps you process trauma and build lasting resilience

Resources: 

• Coming Soon—You Are Not Your Trauma: An Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Guide for Healing from Within by Robyn Walser and Darrah Westrup: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781462557899
• Robyn’s Website: https://robynwalser.com/
• Connect with Robyn on Social Media: 

https://www.instagram.com/walser.robyn/

https://www.facebook.com/theheartofact

https://www.linkedin.com/in/robynwalser 

About Robyn D. Walser

Robyn D. Walser, Ph.D., is an internationally recognized clinical psychologist, educator, and author. She is the Director of Trauma and Life Consultation and Psychology Services, Assistant Professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and Director of Research at Bay Area Trauma Recovery Clinical Services. Dr. Walser has contributed significantly to the dissemination of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and holds a pivotal role in implementing ACT in one of the US's largest national healthcare systems. She also works at the National Center for PTSD, where her work focus is on trauma recovery, depression, and moral injury. A writer and scholar, Dr. Walser has co-authored nine influential books on ACT, including the widely respected The Heart of ACT: Developing a Flexible, Process-Based, and Client-Centered Practice Using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. Her research and clinical expertise have made her a sought-after voice in advancing the application of ACT to address a variety of complex psychological challenges. Since 1997, Dr. Walser has led ACT workshops worldwide, bringing her passion for process-based, experiential learning to therapists and clinicians. Known for her compassionate and client-centered approach, Dr. Walser’s teaching emphasizes the integration of evidence-based practices with human connection and flexibility. Whether through her books, articles, or live training, Dr. Walser continues to influence the evolution of ACT and inspire professionals in their pursuit of effective, transformative therapy. To learn more about her work, visit robynwalser.com.

Book: You Are Not Your Trauma: An ACT Guide for Healing from Within by Robyn D. Walser and Darrah Westrup

Related Episodes: 

• 383. What My Bones Know: C-PTSD with Stephanie Foo
• 279. ACT for Healing Black Racial Trauma with Jennifer Shepard Payne 
• 313. ACT-Informed Exposure for Anxiety with Brian Pilecki and Brian Thompson
• 355. What is EMDR with Jamie Marich 
• 77. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy with Jill Stoddard   
• 320. Anger and Forgiveness with Robyn Walser 
• 106. Therapy from “The Heart of ACT” with Robyn Walser
• 98. Narcissism with Avigail Lev and Robyn Walser  
• 49. Empowering Women with Robyn Walser
• 345. Writing for Personal Growth with Maureen Murdock 

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If you've been feeling like alcohol just doesn’t fit your life anymore, this conversation with Casey Davidson, a Life and Sobriety Coach, might really speak to you.  

Casey opens up about her personal journey of becoming alcohol-free, talks you through the benefits and challenges of sobriety, and clears up some common myths along the way.

You’ll come away with takeaways about the impact alcohol can have on your mental and physical health, how social norms and marketing can negatively influence drinking habits, and why approaching sobriety with curiosity and self-compassion can make all the difference in your journey. 

We hope the personal stories combined with practical insights in this episode will be an inspiring and relatable resource for anyone exploring a more mindful relationship with alcohol.

Listen and Learn: 

• How Casey broke free from nightly wine, ditched mommy wine culture, and found freedom
• How high-functioning people can unknowingly rely on alcohol, and what waking up at 3 AM really means
• Alcohol disrupts joy, sleep, and mood. See what changes when you give it up for just 30 days
• Navigating sobriety without hitting rock bottom, plus mindset shifts, social fears, and partner dynamics
• Why the term "alcoholic" can be misleading, and how redefining sobriety empowers choice
• How non-alcoholic drinks can fit joyful routines without the triggers
• The lasting benefits of 30, 60, and 100 days sober, like better sleep, mood, and self-care
• Why trying to moderate drinking often traps you in a craving cycle, and quitting frees your mind and sparks new creativity

Resources: 

• Casey’s website: Hello Someday Coaching - https://hellosomedaycoaching.com/
• The Hello Someday Podcast For Sober Curious Women - https://hellosomedaycoaching.com/podcast/ 
• Good Morning America asked Casey how I saved $48,000 by not drinking alcohol!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyrfQMv5waU&authuser=0
• Connect with Casey on Social Media:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseydavidson/

https://www.instagram.com/caseymdavidson/

https://facebook.com/hellosomeday

About Casey McGuire Davidson: 

Casey McGuire Davidson is a Life & Sobriety Coach and the host of the Top 100 Mental Health Podcast, The Hello Someday Podcast for Sober Curious Women. 

As an ex-red wine girl who spent 20 years climbing the corporate ladder while holding on tightly to her love of wine, Casey’s passionate about helping busy women stop drinking and create lives they love without alcohol. 

Her work has been featured on Good Morning America, NPR, HuffPost, The New York Times and NBC News.

Related Episodes

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• 202. The Addiction Inoculation with Jess Lahey
• 206. Fair Play Part 2 with Eve Rodsky
• 233. Dopamine Nation with Anna Lembke
• 247. Find Your Unicorn Space with Eve Rodsky
• 286. Not Drinking Tonight with Amanda White
• 316. Understanding Addiction with Judith Grisel
• 402. Harm Reduction for Addiction with Kristin Dempsey

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Why do so many kids seem unmotivated at school, and what can we do about it? In this episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, we’re taking a look at what’s really going on with student engagement, especially during those tricky adolescent years. 

Our guests, Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson, co-authors of The Disengaged Teen, join Emily to break it all down. From the four types of learners—the Passenger, Achiever, Resistor, and Explorer—to how we can help kids tap into curiosity and motivation, this conversation is full of eye-opening insights for both parents and educators. 

They also unpack the pressures of today’s achievement culture, the influence of tech and AI, and most importantly, how parents and teachers can support teens in becoming more confident, engaged learners.

Listen and Learn: 

• Why Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson wrote a game-changing book to fix the student disengagement crisis
• Why only 4% of teens feel truly engaged in school, and what you can do to change that
• What true engagement looks like in your teen 
• How boosting your child’s engagement in learning can improve grades, motivation, and mental health
• Why the “age of achievement” hoop-jumping is harming your child and how to shift toward true agency
• How your child can shift between four learning modes and how you can help them thrive
• Spotting if your child’s stuck in “passenger mode” and igniting their true learning spark
• How your neurodivergent or struggling child can unlock support and build resilience
• How your well-meaning expectations might be fueling your child’s harmful perfectionism
• Turning your child’s “resistor mode” into growth by truly understanding and supporting them
• Why your child’s curiosity and choices spark real learning skills that grades and rules can’t teach
• How your curiosity and relationship with your child can transform their learning mindset

Resources: 

• The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better:
• https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593727072
• Jenny’s website: https://www.jennywestanderson.org/ 
• Rebecca’s website: https://www.rebeccawinthrop.com/
• Connect with Rebecca on social media: 

https://www.instagram.com/drrebeccawinthrop/?hl=en

https://x.com/rebeccawinthrop?lang=en

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-winthrop-b36b0617

• Connect with Jenny on social media: 

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/jennyandersonnyt

https://x.com/jwestanderson?lang=en

https://www.instagram.com/jennyandersonwrites/?hl=en 

About Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson

Rebecca Winthrop is a leading global authority on education, the director of the Center for Universal Education at Brookings and an adjunct professor at Georgetown University. She is dedicated to ensuring that every child has the opportunity to thrive in life, work, and as an engaged citizen. She leads cutting-edge research and initiatives aimed at transforming education systems around the world to better support children's learning and development. 

Rebecca is a trusted advisor to both school communities and national and international organizations. Her expertise is sought by many including parent networks, schools, district education leaders, the White House, the United Nations, and Fortune 500 companies. Rebecca's work is centered on developing and advocating for evidence-based strategies that bring people together—families, educators, policymakers, and companies—to help children maximize their potential. 

She holds a PhD from Columbia University’s Teachers College, an MA from its School of International and Public Affairs, and a BA from Swarthmore College.

Jenny Anderson is an award-winning journalist, author, and speaker with more than 25 years of experience. Her work has appeared in some of the world’s leading publications, including The New York Times, where she was on staff for 10 years, TIME, The Atlantic, the Wall Street Journal and Quartz.

Related Episodes:

• 369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky
• 344. Differently Wired Kids with Deborah Reber
• 332. Middle School Superpowers with Phyllis Fagell
• 324. Toxic Achievement Culture with Jennifer Wallace
• 319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with Emily Edlynn
• 272. Middle School Matters with Phyllis Fagell

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What’s a skill that can instantly improve your relationships, communication, and even your influence? In this episode, Yael talks with Caroline Fleck, a licensed psychologist and author of Validation, to unpack exactly that.

Caroline explains what validation really is, how it’s different from empathy or sympathy, and why it can be so powerful in both personal and professional relationships. 

They walk you through how validation first gained traction in therapy, especially in dialectical behavior therapy, and Caroline shares simple techniques like attending, copying, and proposing that anyone can use.

You’ll get Caroline’s take on the challenge of validating someone when you strongly disagree, the role of self-disclosure in connection, and how our understanding of emotions has shifted from classic microexpressions to a more nuanced view of emotional experience.

If you’re looking for practical ways to build better relationships and truly connect, this episode is full of insight.

Listen and Learn: 

Resources: 

https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593541210

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolinefleck/

https://www.instagram.com/carolinefleckphd/

https://www.youtube.com/@Dr.CarolineFleck

https://www.tiktok.com/@drcarolinefleck 

About Caroline Fleck: 

Dr. Caroline Fleck is a licensed psychologist, writer, and corporate consultant who has served as a supervisor and consultant for some of the most rigorous training programs in the country, including Dr. Marsha Linehan’s program at the University of Washington, the Department of Psychiatry at Stanford Medical Center, and the VA Palo Alto.

She is a respected voice in psychology and has been featured in national media outlets, including The New York Times, Good Morning America, and The Huffington Post. Her new book, which we’re here to discuss, is the first of its kind to make the specialized validation skills therapists master to get through to anyone available to everyone.

Related Episodes:

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In a world constantly demanding our attention and energy, have you ever felt trapped between the crucial need to care for yourself and the undeniable urge to care for those around you? 

Well, for this conversation, Debbie gets into that very dilemma with Dr. Jordan Quaglia, as he challenges us to move beyond the 'either/or' of self-care and explore his revolutionary 'We Care' approach. 

Jordan, who is the author of Self-Care to We Care: The New Science of Mindful Boundaries and Caring From an Undivided Heart, gives his take on the research on balancing self-care with caring for others and emphasizes the importance of holding both self-care and compassion for others simultaneously and offers practical strategies for setting healthy boundaries and integrating self-care into daily life. Come join Debbie and Jordan to redefine what it means to care!

Listen and Learn: 

Resources: 

About Jordan Quaglia

Jordan Quaglia, PhD, has spent over a decade researching and teaching on topics such as mindfulness, compassion, and boundaries. He is an associate professor of psychology at Naropa University, where he directs the Cognitive and Affective Science Laboratory and is research director for its Center for the Advancement of Contemplative Education. A recognized expert in the science of compassion, he has been designated as a research fellow by the Mind & Life Institute, a Contemplative Social Justice Scholar for Contemplative Mind in Society, and a panelist for multiple United Nations Day of Vesak conferences. In addition to his research, Jordan co-developed and regularly teaches an eight-week compassion training curriculum for hundreds of individuals. He lives with his wife in Boulder, Colorado.

Book: From Self-Care to We-Care: The New Science of Mindful Boundaries and Caring from an Undivided Heart

Related episodes: 

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True strength and success lie in how well we can come together and support one another and how well we can stand side by side to move forward as a collective. 

That powerful message comes straight from our guest, Dr. Lakeysha Hallmon, who is the author of No One Is Self-Made: Build Your Village to Flourish in Business and Life, and it perfectly sets the tone for this deeply honest and inspiring conversation with Jill.

They talk about why we’re not meant to do life or business solo, the power of building your “village,” and how real success comes from community, not isolation.

If you’ve ever wondered who you need in your corner, how to find your purpose, or how to stop carrying the weight alone, this one’s for you. Hit play on this conversation to find out what being “village made” really means and why it just might change the way you show up in the world.

Listen and Learn: 

Why the "self-made" myth is harmful and how being "village-made" redefines success

How neuroscience proves we're wired for community and why it's vital for well-being

Why being communal is especially critical for marginalized communities to overcome systemic barriers

Are purpose and alignment the driving forces behind building a thriving community?

"Life assignments" you can put into practice reveal your true purpose

The six essential roles needed to build your "village" and how they contribute to collective success

How to attract your "village" by showing up authentically and setting intentions in new spaces

The crucial difference between individual and "village-made" values, and how they shape community

Key "village-made" values like sharing space with those who shine and radical inclusivity

When to keep grinding and when surrendering opens doors you never expected

Channelling your anger into action and the "village verbs" that empower community building

Resources: 

Find Lakeysha and buy her book, No One is Self-Made, at https://drkeyhallmon.com/noism/ or get it at our POTC bookshop: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780063315891 

Connect with Lakeysha on social media: http://www.linkedin.com/in/lakeysha-hallmon-ed-d-52680215a

https://www.instagram.com/drkeyhallmon  

Debbie’s article on asking for help: https://psyche.co/guides/how-to-ask-for-help-without-discomfort-or-apology

About Lakeysha Hallmon

Dr. Lakeysha Hallmon has transformed the lives of thousands of Black entrepreneurs across the world through her flagship brand The Village Market, and sister organizations The Village Retail, a storefront featuring premier Black-owned brands and nonprofit Our Village United, which revitalizes small businesses by providing funding and technical services. Her love of community, paired with her mantra, Support Is a Verb, inspires Black entrepreneurs everywhere and the communities who support them with intention. As an award-winning expert in education and business development, Hallmon’s innovative village model has become highly sought-after and has facilitated 8.3 million dollars in sales to Black businesses.

Related Episodes

116. Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune

138. Exploring Existence and Purpose: Existentialism with Robyn Walser

234. The Power of Us with Dominic Packer

273. A More Just Future with Dolly Chugh

285. What Do You Want Out of Life? Values Fulfillment Theory with Valerie Tiberius

329. The Power of Curiosity with Scott Shigeoka

370. Freedom, Energy, and Power with Emma Seppälä

371. Uniting Toward a Better Future with Diana McLain Smith

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It’s easy to forget how much doing something creative can lift your mood. Whether you're painting, building something, or just doodling for fun, creating is good for your brain and your mental health! 

In this conversation, Debbie interviews bestselling author Kelly Corrigan, along with her daughter and coauthor, Claire Corrigan Lichty. They talk about their new children’s book, Marianne the Maker, which highlights how creativity and hands-on making can support well-being for kids and adults alike.

Listen in to hear about Kelly and Claire's experience working together as a mother-and-daughter duo, and learn how to incorporate everyday creativity to lift spirits, spark connection, and bond families!

Listen and Learn:

Resources:

Social Media: 

Kelly’s New York Times Op Eds: 

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See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Raising grounded, thoughtful kids in today’s chaotic world is no small task.

In this episode, Emily talks with award-winning journalist and author Melinda Wenner Moyer about her new book, Hello, Cruel World: Science-Based Strategies for Raising Terrific Kids in Terrifying Times.

Melinda shares practical, research-based tools to help parents guide their children through media influence, bias, and the challenges of social media and technology.

It’s a powerful conversation filled with real-world strategies for raising compassionate, critical-thinking kids who can thrive, even when the world feels upside down.

Listen and Learn:

Resources:

About Melinda Wenner Moyer

Melinda Wenner Moyer is an award-winning journalist whose work explores the intersection of science and everyday life. She’s known for her deep dives into subjects that have both scientific and societal implications, addressing issues that are relevant to parents, families, and the general public. Melinda is a contributing editor at Scientific American magazine and a regular contributor and former columnist at The New York Times. Her first book, How To Raise Kids Who Aren’t Assholes, was published in July 2021 and won a gold medal in the 2022 Living Now Book Awards. Her second book, Hello Cruel World!: Science-Based Strategies for Raising Terrific Kids in Terrifying Times, will be published on May 27, 2025. She lives in New York's Hudson Valley. 

390. Raising Empowered Girls in a Sexist World with Jo-Ann Finkelstein

381. Reimagining Boyhood with Ruth Whippman

382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health

377. How to Raise a Citizen with Lindsey Cormack

317. Growing Up in Public with Devorah Heitner

256. Social Justice Parenting with Traci Baxley

214. How to Raise Kids Who Aren’t Jerks with Melinda Wenner Moyer

398. Finding Joy in Your Relationship with Money with Elizabeth Husserl

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What if the ability to negotiate with a hostage-taker was also a skill that could improve relationships in everyday life?

Gary Noesner, who is a former FBI chief negotiator and author of 'Stalling for Time,' which deep dives into his experiences and the lessons he's learned about human nature and effective communication over his 30-year career, joins Yael for this episode.

You’ll hear how patience, empathy, and active listening aren't just crisis tools; they're essential for everyday connection too.

Gary also reflects on the evolution of negotiation tactics, the significance of emotional control, and the value of building genuine relationships.

Resources: 

Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator

https://garynoesner.com/

Yael’s newsletter post about connecting like a hostage negotiator

Kate Murphy’s book with a profile of Gary: Why Won’t You Listen to Me?

Jamie Holmes’ book with a profile of Gary: Nonsense

Connect with Gary on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-noesner-1a2480b

Connect with Gary on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stalling-for-Time/148979708465038

Connect with Gary on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/garynoesner/?hl=en

Gary Noesner retired from the FBI in 2003 following a 30-year career as an investigator, instructor, and negotiator. A significant focus of his career was directed toward investigating Middle East hijackings in which American citizens were victimized. In addition, he was an FBI hostage negotiator for 23 years of his career, retiring as the Chief of the FBI’s Crisis Negotiation Unit, Critical Incident Response Group, the first person to hold that position. In that capacity, he was heavily involved in numerous crisis incidents covering prison riots, right-wing militia standoffs, religious zealot sieges, terrorist embassy takeovers, airplane hijackings, and over 120 overseas kidnapping cases involving American citizens.

He has written a book about his FBI negotiation career, which was published by Penguin Random House in 2010, entitled Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator.    The book is being used in part as the basis for a six-part mini-series on Waco that will air on the Paramount Network on January 24, 2018.

255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance

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392. Outraged with Kurt Gray

403. Conflict Resilience with Bob Bordone and Joel Salinas

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