Psychologists Off the Clock

After 10 years and 484 episodes, Psychologists Off the Clock is saying goodbye. In this special final episode, all five co-hosts—Debbie Sorensen, Yael Schonbrun, Jill Stoddard, Michael Herold, and Emily Edlynn—come together for one last conversation about the podcast, the decision to end it, and what comes next.

The co-hosts pull back the curtain on the realities of running a psychology podcast, from the time, money, and behind-the-scenes work involved to the changing economics of podcast sponsorship. They share why, after a decade of meaningful conversations about psychological science, they decided it was the right time to close this chapter rather than compromise the depth and quality of the show.

But this episode is about much more than saying goodbye. The hosts reflect on their favorite memories, the books and research that shaped their thinking, the professional growth that came from interviewing experts, and the friendships and unexpected connections that made the experience so meaningful. Along the way, they share funny behind-the-scenes stories, reflect on the impact of connecting listeners with evidence-based psychology, and reveal some of the surprising ways podcasting changed their lives—including one love story that began with a listener reaching out.

They also look ahead to what's next, sharing updates on their individual projects, new podcasts, books, writing, and clinical work. 

Although this is the final planned episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, the archive of 484 episodes will remain available, so you can revisit old favorites or discover conversations you may have missed. And who knows? The hosts haven't ruled out a surprise bonus episode someday.

Most of all, this episode is a heartfelt thank-you to the listeners, guests, sponsors, production team, and colleagues who made the past 10 years possible. It's a celebration of curiosity, connection, evidence-based psychology, and the power of sharing what we learn with one another.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

• Why the co-hosts decided to end Psychologists Off the Clock now, after 10 years of podcasting
• The realities of producing and sustaining an independent psychology podcast
• The professional, personal, and relational rewards of podcasting
• Memorable moments and behind-the-scenes stories
• How the show helped spread evidence-based psychological science to listeners around the world
• What each co-host is working on next
• Where to find psychology podcasts to explore after POTC, and why you might consider quitting your job to listen to our 484-episode archive, which will remain available!

Thank you for being part of the Psychologists Off the Clock community! It's been a privilege to share the science and stories of psychology with you. We hope you'll keep learning, stay curious, and continue finding ways to bring psychological science into your everyday life.

Keep up with your POTC cohosts here:

DEBBIE SORENSEN

Website: www.drdebbiesorensen.com 

Books: 

• ACT for Burnout: Recharge, Reconnect, and Transform Burnout with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy
• ACT Daily Journal: Get Unstuck and Live Fully with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy 

Social Media: 

• Substack: https://drdebbiesorensen.substack.com/ (Subscribe to read Debbie's personal essays)
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbie-sorensen/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdebbiesorensen/ 
• Debbie will be joining Insight Timer with some content on burnout, ACT, midlife, and guided journaling. Stay tuned for that, coming soon! 

EMILY EDLYNN

Website: https://www.emilyedlynnphd.com/

Books: 

• Autonomy-Supportive Parenting: Reduce Parental Burnout and Raise Competent, Confident Children
• In Your Feels: A Journal to Work Out Your Emotions (for kids)

Social Media:

• Substack: https://substack.com/@emilyedlynn1 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-edlynn-phd-0610072/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dremilyedlynn/ 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmilyEdlynn 

Interested in working with Emily? Therapy and Parent Coaching Info!

MICHAEL HEROLD

Website: https://herold.coach

New Podcast: Mind Brew with Janina Scarlet and Michael Herold - coming soon!

Social media: @michael_herold_coach

New Podcast Social Media: @mindbrewjam (coming soon!) 

YAEL SCHONBRUN

Website: https://www.yaelschonbrun.com/

Books

• Why Don’t You Understand Me?: The Surprising Science Behind Connecting in a World of Missed Signals
• Work, Parent, Thrive: 12 Science-Backed Strategies to Ditch Guilt, Manage Overwhelm, and Grow Connection (When Everything Feels Like too Much)

Social media

• Substack: https://relationalriffs.substack.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaelschonbrun/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yaelschonbrun/

JILL STODDARD

Website: https://jillstoddard.com/

New Podcast: We the Sunlight

Books: 

• Imposter No More: Overcome Self-Doubt and Imposterism to Cultivate a Successful Career
• Be Mighty: A Woman's Guide to Liberation from Anxiety, Worry, and Stress Using Mindfulness and Acceptance
• The Big Book of ACT Metaphors: A Practitioner's Guide to Experiential Exercises and Metaphors in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy

Social media: 

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillstoddardphd/?isSelfProfile=true
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@jillstoddardphd

Recommended Podcasts:

NEW PODCASTS BY OUR CO-HOSTS 

• Michael’s new podcast: Mind Brew with Janina Scarlet and Michael Herold - coming soon!
• Jill’s new podcast: We the Sunlight with Jill Stoddard: a true-crime-meets-psychology show exploring what happens when people have the courage to speak out even when the stakes are high.

PSYCHOLOGY PODCASTS

• People Soup with Ross McIntosh: hear real conversations about work, leadership and being human, grounded in behavioural science, with practical ideas you can actually use. 
• Mentally Flexible with Thomas Parkes
• Life’s Dirty Little Secrets with Emma Waddington and Chris McCurry
• Behavioral Grooves with Kurt Nelson and Tim Houlihan
• Wise Effort with our former cohost and cofounder, Diana Hill 
• Playing-It-Safe with Patricia Zurita Ona 
• Well, hello anxiety podcast with Jodi Richardson
• That’s What She Said with Robin Buckley: That’s What She Said is where women’s wisdom takes the mic. It centers real women, real stories, and the lessons women earn by actually living their lives.
• Spill Your Guts with Jenn Staples. A skills-focused podcast providing evidence-based strategies for a variety of mental health issues.
• The Type C Personality Podcast 
• Pause Purpose Play with Michaela Thomas is ideal for burned out women with (and without) ADHD
• Midlife Reclaimed podcast with Shannon Swales - perfect for burnout out women in midlife 
• Ask Lisa: Untangling Family Life, a parenting podcast with Lisa Damour 
• The Courageous Life with Joshua Steinfeldt
• Superpsyched with Adam Dorsay
• Getting to Yes And with Kelly Leonard

OTHER PODCASTS

• Maintenance Phase: Takes on the science of “wellness” trends 
• If Books Could Kill: Dissects “airport books,” many of which would fall into the psychology self-help category

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It’s a big week for one of the Psychologists Off the Clock! In this episode, all of the POTC cohosts come together to interview Yael about her brand new book, Why Don’t You Understand Me?: The Surprising Science Behind Connecting in a World of Missed Signals. 

Yael explains that misunderstanding is mainly a perception problem, not just a broadcasting problem, which is why someone can say exactly the right words and still be misunderstood. She discusses some counter intuitive findings from psychology research, and offers ideas like “generous understanding,” that can help us understand each other better, even in challenging circumstances. 

Yael's book has the potential to change your life, and maybe even the world, for the better. Join us for this conversation, and hear the POTC team talk all about it!

Listen and Learn:

• Why misunderstanding is more of a perception problem than a broadcasting problem, and the difference between communication (something that happens between people) and understanding (something that happens within them)
• How a stalled book about the kibbutz turned into this one, thanks to a family walk and a husband who said “Yeah, write that book”
• Why overconfidence is the one bias that rules all the others, and why therapists with “healthy professional self-doubt” build stronger alliances
• What the invisible gorilla study reveals beyond inattentional blindness (spoiler: we’re sure we’d see it next time, and we still don’t), plus Debbie’s inside scoop on where that gorilla suit came from
• The closeness communication bias: why we’re about as accurate with the people we love as with strangers, but far more confident
• The difference between “Do I understand you?” and “Do you feel understood?” and why the second question matters so much with kids, teens, and partners
• How humor’s “simultaneity” lets two things be true at once, so nobody has to surrender their view to take in someone else’s
• Why you might actually want to go to bed angry, and how hunger, fatigue, and stress quietly distort how we read other people
• How irreverence, from Barbara Walters to Marsha Linehan’s DBT, can leave people feeling more understood than gentleness alone
• Why validation isn’t agreement, with lessons from suicide prevention and FBI hostage negotiation
• Generous understanding: what the prisoner’s dilemma teaches us about being a little more generous than feels fair in noisy relationships
• How a detective’s compassionate approach to a serial killer yielded five murder confessions, and why understanding is not an obligation when safety is at stake
• Three tips for bridging political divides: complicate your story, separate people from their views, and share the project
• What to do when you’re doing all the understanding work and the other person isn’t

Resources:

• Why Don’t You Understand Me?: The Surprising Science Behind Connecting in a World of Missed Signals by Yael Schonbrun (audiobook narrated by Yael and can be purchased here)
• Yael’s Substack, Relational Riffs [link]
• “Understanding Is Not an Obligation” on Relational Riffs [link]
• Yael on Instagram and LinkedIn: @yaelschonbrun
• The Invisible Gorilla and Nobody’s Fool by Christopher Chabris and Daniel Simons
• Mindwise and A Little More Social by Nicholas Epley
• Validation by Caroline Fleck
• A Hunger to Kill by Kim Mager & Lisa Pulitzer
• Outraged by Kurt Gray
• High Conflict by Amanda Ripley
• Amanda Ripley’s New York Times piece on “necessary conversations.”
• Stalling for Time by Gary Noesner
• Give and Take by Adam Grant (for “otherish” giving)

About Yael Schonbrun

Yael Schonbrun, PhD, is a clinical psychologist and couples therapist in private practice and a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry and human behavior at Brown University. Her research specialization in relationship cognition, how people perceive one another, informs her clinical work helping couples get unstuck. She is the author of Work, Parent, Thrive and Why Don’t You Understand Me?, writes the Substack newsletter Relational Riffs, and contributes regularly to The Washington Post, with bylines in The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. She has co-hosted Psychologists Off the Clock for many years.

Related Episodes:

82. Therapist Self Doubt with Jim Lucas 

275. Work, Parent, Thrive with Yael Schonbrun

311. Nobody’s Fool with Daniel Simons and Chris Chabris

392. Outraged with Kurt Gray

403. Conflict Resilience with Bob Bordone and Joel Salinas   

408. Connecting Like a Hostage Negotiator with Gary Noesner 

413.Validate with Caroline Fleck 

422. Mindwise with Nicholas Epley 

452. How to Disagree Better with Julia Minson

456. High Conflict with Amanda Ripley

461. A Little More Social with Nicholas Epley 

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When was the last time you looked in the mirror and could not say who was looking back at you?

Ceri Samvilian joins Michael for his final episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, recorded in the Vienna living room where the two of them met ten years ago. Ceri moved from Nairobi to Vienna at 27 and spent years playing what she calls the role of a good immigrant. Speak German properly, do not be too loud, stay in the box. She only saw the cost later, when she realized she had suppressed herself in order to be accepted. The turning point arrived as a question in the mirror on an ordinary morning. Who are you now?

They also get into the Saturday afternoon that changed things for both of them. Ceri had prepared a seven-minute talk about dropping the mask, then watched her cue cards leave on the train without her. She cried in Michael's bathroom, rewrote the whole thing from memory, and gave the talk anyway. From there she gets practical about journaling as a standing habit rather than an emergency tool, and about the three stages she now takes clients through. Reignite, reconnect, redesign. 

Listen and Learn: 

• Why moving countries changes who you are and not only where you live
• How the masks we wear to fit in start out as protection and end up as suppression
• What happens when accommodating everyone else finally runs out, and why Ceri's limit arrived with her second child
• Why the three questions Deepak Chopra raised in that Oprah interview are worth living with for a year instead of answering on the spot
• How journaling works better as a habit than as an emergency tool, and why writing an idea down protects it from other people's opinions
• What a mirror moment is, and how Ceri turned hers into the reignite, reconnect and redesign stages she uses with clients
• Why a stronger net of friends lets you dare more, and how a simple signal makes it easier to ask for help as an adult

Resources: 

• Website: www.cerisamvilian.com
• Ceri on Facebook
• Ceri on Instagram
• Ceri on LinkedIn
• Elizabeth Gilbert - Big Magic
• Ceri’s book "Journal and discover your authentic self"
• Mind brew - A psychology podcast with Dr. Janina Scarlet and Michael Herold

About Ceri Samvilian

Ceri Samvilian is a Certified Life Coach and Author specializing in identity reconstruction for women. As the creator of The Phoenix Awakening, she has guided hundreds of women to rediscover themselves and redesign their lives. Ceri is a keynote speaker who has spoken to over 300 audiences across Europe. She is also a board member of NIWA (Network of International Women in Austria) and the author of the book Journal and Discover Your Authentic Self. Her mission is to liberate one million women from the belief that choosing themselves is selfish.

Related Episodes

• 173. Confidence, Self-Doubt, and Overcoming Limitations with Michael Herold
• 454. Remain Calm. Confidence Ahead with Michael Herold
• 428. How to Fall in Love with Questions with Elizabeth Weingarten
• 351. You Only Die Once with Jodi Wellman
• 457. Tiny Experiments with Anne-Laure Le Cunff

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For her last episode without her co-hosts, Debbie wanted to choose a topic that matters to her personally: existentialism and the search for meaning. She invited her “dream team” panel of colleagues with an interest in existentialism from the ACT community: Robyn Walser, Jim Lucas, Jenna LeJeune, and Jennifer Gregg.

Existentialism invites us to enhance our lives through exploration of life’s truths: we will die, we are free to make choices, and we must all create our own sense of meaning and purpose. Through grappling with the big questions of life, we can become more engaged, intentional, and present in the lives we have.

In this episode, our panelists discuss existential ideas like freedom and responsibility, living with death awareness, transcendence, and why vitality includes the painful parts of life as well as the joyful ones. They discuss the pressure of a culture that pushes us to optimize everything, and they close with an invitation to join in the “grand exploration” of life.

Listen and Learn:

• How existentialism grew out of a response to absurdity, and why it helps us question rules that don’t make sense. 
• The balance between freedom and responsibility, and why owning your choices can be both scary and liberating. 
• How awareness of the finite nature of life gives weight to our values. 
• Why vitality means tasting the whole experience, including “the rotten part of the apple,” and not only the joyful part. 
• Self-transcendence, and the importance of contributing to something greater than yourself.
• Why suffering can be seen as a teacher, instead of a problem to be solved.
• How meaning and hope differ, and why a meaningful life doesn’t depend on a better future. 
• How to hold both the “I” and the interconnected “we” in values work. 
• How cultural pressure to be productive can pull us away from what’s truly meaningful. 

Resources:

• Robyn Walser’s book Acceptance and Commitment Therapy: Deliberate Practice to Develop and Enhance Skills in ACT 
• Jenna LeJeune’s book Values in Therapy: A Clinician’s Guide to Helping Clients Explore Values, Increase Psychological Flexibility, and Live a More Meaningful Life

About the Panelists: 

Robyn D. Walser, Ph.D., is an internationally recognized clinical psychologist, educator, and author. She is the Director of Trauma and Life Consultation and Psychology Services, Assistant Professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and Director of Research at Bay Area Trauma Recovery Clinical Services. Dr. Walser has contributed significantly to the dissemination of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and held a pivotal role in implementing ACT in one of the US's largest national healthcare systems. Her work largely focuses on trauma recovery. A writer and scholar, Dr. Walser has co-authored nine influential books on ACT, including the Heart of ACT: Developing a Flexible, Process-Based, and Client-Centered Practice Using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Deliberate Practice to Develop and Enhance Skills in ACT.  She recently released a self-help book on ACT called You Are Not Your Trauma. Her research and clinical expertise have made her a sought-after voice in advancing the application of ACT to address a variety of complex psychological challenges. Since 1997, Dr. Walser has led ACT workshops worldwide, bringing her passion for process-based, experiential learning to therapists and clinicians. Known for her compassionate, client-centered approach, Dr. Walser’s teaching emphasizes integrating evidence-based practices with human connection and flexibility.

This is Robyn’s EIGHTH appearance on Psychologists Off the Clock! You can hear her previous episodes here: 

• 320. Anger and Forgiveness with Robyn Walser 
• 416. Trauma and PTSD Treatment with Robyn Walser  
• 138. Exploring Existence and Purpose: Existentialism with Robyn Walser 
• 133. Mental Health in the Age of COVID-19 with Robyn Walser
• 106. Therapy from “The Heart of ACT” with Robyn Walser  
• 98. Narcissism with Avigail Lev and Robyn Walser
• 49. Empowering Women with Robyn Walser  

Jenna LeJeune, Ph.D. is President and co-founder of Portland Psychotherapy Clinic, Research and Training Center in Portland, Oregon. She is also a researcher and study therapist at the Portland Institute for Psychedelic Science. Both in her clinical practice as a licensed psychologist and in her work with psychedelics, Jenna is deeply interested in issues related to meaning, purpose, belonging, and values. Jenna specializes in using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) to help those she serves connect with what is most meaningful so that they are able to live lives of purpose and integrity even in the midst of suffering. She is the co-author of the book Values in Therapy: A Clinician's Guide to Helping Clients Explore Values, Increase Psychological Flexibility, and Live a More Meaningful Life as well as numerous other book chapters, journal articles, and other publications. Jenna is also a Fellow of the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science and a peer-reviewed ACT trainer and provides ACT trainings for professionals around the world.

Jenna previously appeared on Psychologists Off the Clock for episode 116: Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune  

Jennifer Gregg is a professor of Psychology at San Jose State University and a licensed clinical psychologist. She specializes in Psycho-Oncology and end of life care, and has been researching, delivering, and training professions in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) since 1995. She has written dozens of scholarly articles and three books for the public on ACT, and is a peer-reviewed ACT trainer. She lives in the San Francisco Bay Area where she helps cancer patients and their families live amazing lives with difficult medical illnesses. 

Although this was Jen’s first time on the podcast, she has been with us in spirit, and we’ve discussed two of her books on the podcast previously with her co-author. You can check those episodes out here: 181. Stop Avoiding Stuff with Matt Boone and 469. ACT Refresher with Matt Boone  

Jim Lucas has been an ACBS Peer-reviewed ACT Trainer, Consultant, Supervisor, Author and Therapist since 2003. Jim has helped 1000s of practitioners integrate Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) into their therapeutic toolkit.  As one of the founding presenters of the legendary Birmingham ACT Week back in 2015, Jim has since trained therapists, psychologists, counsellors, social workers, physiotherapists, and other allied health professionals in this powerful approach to behaviour change.  Now, through the Openforwards ACT Learning Centre, Jim helps practitioners worldwide to build their expertise and optimise their clinical impact. 

Jim previously joined us on the podcast for episode 82: Therapist Self Doubt with Jim Lucas 

Related Episodes: 

138. Exploring Existence and Purpose: Existentialism with Robyn Walser

116. Building a Meaningful, Values-based Life with Jenna LeJeune 

375. Midlife: From Crisis to Curiosity with Meg McKelvie and Debbie Sorensen 

242. Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management with Oliver Burkeman 

351. You Only Die Once with Jodi Wellman

285. What Do You Want Out of Life? Values Fulfillment Theory with Valerie Tiberius

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Listen and Learn:

• Why genes, like environments, tilt the playing field without determining the outcome, and what a cloned Texas bull named Second Chance (who gored his owners, unlike the sweet original) teaches us about genetic determinism
• Why "What if you'd had my childhood?" invites sympathy while "What if you'd had my genome?" feels like an identity threat, and how DNA has become our modern "essence placeholder"
• What the Lindsay Clancy and Andrea Yates cases reveal about the limits of our victim/perpetrator binary, and why our legal system and moral intuitions struggle when someone is both
• How punishment shows up across the natural world, from paper wasp queens who get deposed for eating too many of their sisters' eggs to fig trees that shrivel the fruit of lazy pollinators
• Why our retributive drive is deeply "baked into the evolutionary sauce," and why simply understanding the free will problem won't make it disappear
• Durkheim's argument that a society without crime would be neither possible nor desirable, and how deviance drives moral innovation
• Why accountability has become collapsed with punishment, in criminal justice and in modern parenting debates, and what a "third way" might look like
• How the Norwegian response to Anders Breivik reframes the question from "Does this person deserve punishment?" to "How do we treat someone who has done something terrible and is still one of us?"
• Why dehumanizing others degrades the punisher as well as the punished, and how service-based consequences might replace immiseration

Resources:

• Kathryn Paige Harden's website: https://www.kpharden.com
• Original Sin by Kathryn Paige Harden
• Why Don't You Understand Me?: The Surprising Science Behind Connecting in a World of Missed Signals by Yael Schonbrun 
• Form to get pre-order bonuses for Why Don't You Understand Me? 
• Yael's favorite true crime podcasts: 
• Beyond All Repair
• Love Trapped
• The Dropout
• Serial
• Dr. Death
• One of Us: The Story of a Massacre in Norway and Its Aftermath by Åsne Seierstad
• The View From Nowhere by Thomas Nagel
• "What Is It Like to Be a Bat?" by Thomas Nagel
• Outraged by Kurt Gray

About Kathryn Paige Harden

Kathryn Paige Harden is a professor of clinical psychology at the University of Texas at Austin, where she leads the Developmental Behavior Genetics Lab, studying how kids' and teens' DNA sequences and epigenomes interact with their environments to shape thought, feeling, and behavior. She earned her PhD in clinical psychology from the University of Virginia and trained clinically at McLean Hospital, Harvard Medical School. Her first book, The Genetic Lottery, argued that genetics matters for social equality and made her one of the most debated scientists writing for a general audience. Her new book, Original Sin, is part memoir, part behavioral genetics primer, and part philosophical reckoning with her own evangelical upbringing, arguing that the question of why people do terrible things cannot be answered by nature or nurture alone.

Related Episodes:

• 392. Outraged with Kurt Gray
• 434. How Trust Works with Peter H. Kim
• 438. The Hypocrisy Trap with Michael Hallsworth
• 430. Nonadaptive Guilt and Shame with Carolyn Allard
• 476. Why We Ask Why with Tania Lombrozo
• 467. Bonded by Evolution with Paul Eastwick

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What does it really mean to speak up—and what happens when telling the truth comes at a cost?

In this special episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, Jill Stoddard and Yael introduce Jill’s powerful new podcast, We the Sunlight, a show about the brave act of speaking up in a culture that too often rewards silence. Then, listeners get an exclusive preview of the first episode, featuring Jules Bindi, one of the first women to publicly share that she was sexually assaulted by Harvey Weinstein before the #MeToo movement began.

Jules shares her story—from growing up surrounded by trauma and abuse to building a successful career as a massage therapist to Hollywood’s elite. She describes the grooming, manipulation, and sexual assaults she experienced at the hands of one of the most powerful men in the entertainment industry, as well as the complicated question that haunted her afterward: Why did she go back?

Together, Jill and Jules explore the complex survival responses that can make victims blame themselves, including fawning, appeasing, and attempting to maintain safety in the face of overwhelming power. Jules also shares what finally helped her come forward, what she feared would happen if she spoke publicly, and why she ultimately decided that staying silent came at too high a cost.

You’ll hear about shame, self-forgiveness, post-traumatic growth, and the complicated reality of speaking truth to power. Most importantly, Jules offers a powerful message to anyone considering whether to come forward—and to those who have already spoken up and are living with the consequences.

Join us for this moving introduction to We the Sunlight and the story of one woman who discovered that courage doesn’t mean speaking without fear. Sometimes, it means deciding that something matters more than staying silent.

Listen and Learn:

• The story behind Jill’s new podcast, We the Sunlight, and how her own experience speaking publicly about a family member who caused harm inspired her to create a show centered on truth-telling
• Why speaking up can be both deeply meaningful and incredibly costly—and how people weigh the potential consequences before deciding whether to come forward
• Jules Bindi’s journey from a childhood shaped by abuse and trauma to becoming a successful massage therapist with high-profile celebrity clients
• How Harvey Weinstein used power, praise, promises, and manipulation to groom Jules and exploit the enormous power imbalance between them
• Why survivors may continue contact with or return to someone who has harmed them—and how survival responses such as fawning and appeasing can complicate our understanding of trauma
• Why asking, “Why did they go back?” can fuel shame and self-blame when survivors are already struggling to understand their own responses
• How fear of retaliation, public scrutiny, victim-blaming, and professional consequences can make speaking out against a powerful person feel nearly impossible
• What ultimately motivated Jules to come forward publicly and later participate in the legal case against Weinstein
• How becoming a mother helped Jules reconsider what she would want her own daughter to do if she were ever harmed
• Why Jules says she experienced fewer negative consequences from speaking up than she expected—and how speaking publicly allowed her to put down some of the weight she had carried in silence
• The difference between taking responsibility for someone else’s harmful actions and finding meaning in the ways we choose to respond afterward
• How Jules has transformed her experiences into advocacy, supporting other survivors and teaching children about bodily autonomy and personal boundaries
• Why self-forgiveness can be one of the most difficult—and meaningful—parts of healing
• What to consider if you are wrestling with whether to speak up, including the question of what it may cost you to stay silent
• Jules’ message to those already living through the difficult aftermath of coming forward: celebrate your courage, care for yourself, and remember that the intensity of the moment will not last forever
• Why all of us can support survivors by resisting the urge to judge, question, or shame them for the ways they responded to trauma

Resources:

• We the Sunlight podcast
• Jules Bindey / EQ Kid Books
• My Body, My Rules by Jules Bindi
• The Harmony Hills children’s book series
• Ask Before Touching Me
• It’s Okay for Me to Say No

About Jules Bindi:

Jules Bindi is an entrepreneur, emotional intelligence advocate, author, and storyteller dedicated to helping people heal, develop stronger boundaries, and use their voices.

After experiencing sexual assault by Harvey Weinstein, Jules eventually became one of the first women to publicly share her story before the #MeToo movement gained widespread momentum. Her decision to come forward was motivated not only by her own experience, but by a desire to support other survivors and help create greater accountability for people who abuse their power.

Today, Jules works with survivors who are navigating the difficult process of reporting abuse and coming forward. She also teaches children about bodily autonomy, boundaries, and emotional intelligence through her children’s publishing company, EQ Kid Books.

She is the author of My Body, My Rules and the creator of The Harmony Hills series, which helps children learn that they have ownership over th

eir bodies and the right to set boundaries and say no.

About Jill Stoddard:

Dr. Jill Stoddard is passionate about providing clients, audiences, and readers with transformative experiences that are based in the latest psychological science but translate to everyday skills for flourishing at work and in life. She is an international and TEDx speaker, award-winning former professor, three-time book author, entrepreneur, licensed psychologist, coach, and professional podcaster. Her former show, Psychologists Off the Clock, was ranked in the top .5% worldwide and was the number one clinical psychology podcast according to Feedspot. Her latest passion project, We the Sunlight, offers a platform for truthtellers to shine a light on crime. Her books have been translated into more than a dozen languages and include: The Big Book of ACT Metaphors; Be Mighty; and Imposter No More. She is a standing-ovation-commanding speaker (ok, that’s only happened twice so far, but it’s her goal for every talk!). She regularly appears on podcasts and as an expert source for various tv and print media outlets. She has written for or been quoted in Time, the Washington Post, New York Times, Woman’s World, Today.com, Psychology Today, The San Diego Union Tribune, The Boston Globe and more. Her work centers on the simple but powerful belief that discomfort isn’t a sign that something’s gone wrong, it’s a sign you’re right where you are meant to be -- at the intersection of caring and challenge. She lives in Newburyport, MA with her husband, two kids, and disobedient French Bulldog.  

About We the Sunlight:

What happens when you risk everything to tell the truth?

We the Sunlight is a podcast about the brave act of speaking up in a culture that too often rewards silence. From whistleblowers to victims of crime to people intimately connected to those who have caused harm, each episode features raw, personal stories from people who faced high stakes to speak their truth.

Guests share why they came forward, what they considered before speaking up, what it cost them, whether they regret their decision, and how radical transparency became part of their healing. The show is grounded in the belief that truth can illuminate, stories can heal, and—as the saying goes—sunlight is the best disinfectant. We just shouldn't have to shine it alone.

Related Episodes:

19. Keeping Children Safe from Sexual Abuse with Feather Berkower 

84. Courageous Conversations to Prevent Childhood Sexual Abuse with Feather Berkower

394. Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant with Andrea Dunlop and Mike Weber

421. Defy with Sunita Sah

436. Consent Laid Bare with Chanel Contos

463. Doubting Accusers; Protecting Abusers

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What if the biggest threat to kids’ mental health isn’t smartphones or social media—but the loss of freedom, play, and independence in childhood?

In this episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, Emily welcomes researcher Peter Gray, author of Restoring Childhood: How to Set Kids Free in the Age of Anxiety. Drawing on decades of research in developmental psychology, anthropology, education, and play, Peter challenges some of our most common assumptions about what children need to thrive.

Peter explains why play isn’t simply recreation—it’s how children naturally learn independence, problem-solving, negotiation, courage, and the social skills they’ll need throughout their lives. He traces how adults have gradually “colonized” childhood, replacing independent play and exploration with increasingly adult-directed activities, supervision, and schoolwork.

Emily and Peter also take on one of today’s biggest parenting debates: the role of smartphones and social media in the youth mental health crisis. Peter offers a provocative interpretation of the historical data, including why teen mental health actually improved during the early years of home computers, video games, and online communication—and why he believes increased school pressure deserves far more attention as a contributor to youth anxiety and depression.

You’ll hear why children need opportunities to solve problems without adults swooping in, how risky play helps kids develop courage, why trust can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and what parents and schools can do to give children more ownership over their lives.

Join Emily and Peter for a thought-provoking conversation about what we lose when we try too hard to protect and prepare our kids—and why restoring childhood may require adults to step back so kids can step forward.

Listen and Learn:

• Why play is a biological drive across young mammals—and how it helps children practice the skills they need to become increasingly independent
• How self-directed play teaches children to negotiate, compromise, solve problems, consider other people’s needs, and navigate conflict without adults stepping in
• Why children’s freedom to play and explore independently has declined dramatically over the past several decades—and what Peter means by the disappearance of a distinct “culture of childhood”
• How children’s peer cultures once gave kids opportunities to create their own games, norms, language, and social worlds largely outside adult oversight
• The surprising mental health trends Peter identifies from 1950 onward, including rising distress during decades when children’s independence was declining
• Why Peter believes the arrival of home computers in the 1990s may actually have improved adolescent well-being by giving teens new opportunities for mastery, independence, play, and connection with peers
• How early computers created an unusual reversal in expertise, with teenagers often knowing more than their parents—and why that experience of competence may have mattered
• Why video games and other forms of pretend or risky play can give children opportunities to experience fear, vulnerability, challenge, and mastery in relatively safe environments
• Peter’s critique of the popular claim that smartphones and social media are the primary cause of today’s youth mental health crisis, and why he argues the broader research literature does not support such a simple causal story
• Why Peter sees increasing academic pressure and changes in American schooling as an overlooked contributor to rising anxiety, depression, and burnout among young people
• How schools could become more supportive of mental health by improving school climate, increasing student autonomy, restoring teacher flexibility, protecting recess, and reducing unnecessary academic pressure
• One simple question parents can ask children to begin expanding their independence: What would you like to be doing on your own that you aren’t doing now?
• Why shifting from “What am I afraid to let my child do?” toward “What could I encourage my child to do independently?” can help both children and parents build confidence
• What Peter calls “TAS parenting”—combining trustful and autonomy-supportive parenting by not only trusting children’s developing capabilities but actively creating opportunities for them to exercise independence

Resources:

• Peter Gray’s book Restoring Childhood: How to Set Kids Free in the Age of Anxiety
• Peter’s book Free to Learn: Why Unleashing the Instinct to Play Will Make Our Children Happier, More Self-Reliant, and Better Students for Life
• Peter’s website: petergray.org
• Peter’s Substack: Play Makes Us Human

About Peter Gray:

Peter Gray is a research professor of psychology and neuroscience at Boston College. He has conducted and published research in neuroendocrinology, developmental psychology, anthropology, and education. He did his undergraduate study at Columbia University and earned a Ph.D. in biological sciences at Rockefeller University. His current research and writing focus primarily on children’s natural ways of learning and the life-long value of play. He has helped found and continues to support nonprofit organizations aimed at bringing more play and independent activity to children’s lives. He is the author of an internationally acclaimed college introductory psychology textbook (Psychology, now in its8th edition), which views all of psychology from an evolutionary perspective, and of Free to Learn: Why Unleashing the Instinct to Play Will Make Our Children Happier, More Self-Reliant, and Better Students for Life. His newest book, Restoring Childhood: How to Set Kids Free in the Age of Anxiety, is out now.

Related Episodes:

• 470. Parenting Science in the Media: Lost in Translation
• 433. Rethinking Screens and Video Games with Ash Brandin
• 414. The Disengaged Teen with Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson
• 382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health
• 369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky 
• 319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with Emily Edlynn

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What if some of the things you believe most strongly aren’t actually facts—but tools you’re using to navigate a complicated world?

In this bittersweet final interview for Psychologists Off the Clock, Jill Stoddard welcomes back Nir Eyal, author of Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Extraordinary Results. Nir was Jill’s very first guest when she joined the podcast, making this conversation a fitting bookend to her time on POTC. Together, they explore how our beliefs shape motivation, perception, pain, relationships, and our ability to create lasting change.

Nir explains why beliefs are different from facts or faith, and why treating beliefs as tools rather than truths can give us more flexibility. He shares his personal story of struggling with his weight, how changing his beliefs helped him persist, and what his experience with Pain Reprocessing Therapy taught him about chronic pain.

You’ll hear why “seeing is believing” is only half the story, how our expectations can change our experience of pain and pleasure, why venting may reinforce the very beliefs that keep us stuck, and how expanding your portfolio of perspectives can create more freedom in relationships and everyday life.

Join Jill and Nir for a fascinating conversation about the power of belief—and a reminder that feeling bad isn’t necessarily bad. Sometimes, pain comes with purpose.

Listen and Learn:

• Why beliefs are neither facts nor faith, but flexible “working models” that help us navigate reality when the truth isn’t fully knowable
• How beliefs influence motivation, behavior, and persistence—and why believing you can succeed may be just as important as knowing what to do
• Nir’s personal weight-loss journey and how searching for the “one true” diet ultimately got in the way of persistence
• Why beliefs can be powerful tools even when we can’t prove that they are objectively true, and how choosing beliefs that serve us can change the way we respond to everyday challenges
• How attention shapes perception, why our brains rely on predictions and prior beliefs, and what the classic checkerboard illusion teaches us about seeing reality
• The relationship between beliefs, expectations, pain, and suffering—including what Nir learned from Pain Reprocessing Therapy and the surprising power of the brain to change the experience of chronic pain
• Why feeling bad isn’t necessarily bad, and how redefining discomfort as something that can accompany purpose may help us stop avoiding the experiences that matter
• How placebo and nocebo effects demonstrate the powerful role of expectations, and why beliefs can influence our experience through changes in behavior and biology
• Why venting can reinforce negative beliefs about other people, and how “getting it off your chest” may provide short-term relief while making us angrier in the long run
• How Inquiry-Based Stress Reduction can help us loosen rigid beliefs by developing a broader “portfolio” of possible perspectives rather than forcing ourselves to replace one belief with another
• Nir’s personal transformation in his relationship with his mother, and how questioning assumptions about other people can create more flexibility without requiring them to change
• How expanding our beliefs can create “wiggle room” to respond more flexibly, reconnect with our values, and take responsibility for our own contribution to difficult situations

Resources:

• Nir’s book Beyond Belief: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593852033
• Free belief change guide is here: www.nirandfar.com/beyond-belief-live
• Bonus content and the 30-Day Belief Transformation Journal is here: nirandfar.com/beyond-belief
• Website: http://nirandfar.com
• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nireyal/
• Instagram - http://instagram.com/nireyal

Previous books:

• Hooked: geni.us/hooked
• Indistractable: geni.us/Indistractable

About Nir Eyal:

Nir Eyal writes, consults, and teaches about the intersection of psychology, technology, and human potential. He previously taught at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design at Stanford.

He is the author of the international bestsellers Hooked and Indistractable, which have sold more than a million copies in more than 30 languages. His latest book, Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Extraordinary Results, explores the science of beliefs and how they influence our perceptions, behaviors, and ability to create lasting change. The book recently reached the New York Times bestseller list.

Nir is also an active angel investor whose portfolio includes multi-billion-dollar companies such as Canva and Kahoot!. He blogs at NirAndFar.com and has published writing in The New York Times and Harvard Business Review. He is also a regular contributor to Psychology Today.

Related Episodes:

127. Indistractable with Nir Eyal

310. The Expectation Effect with David Robson

312. Throwback Episode! The Invisible Gorilla with Christopher Chabris

422. Mindwise with Nicholas Epley

443. Shift with Ethan Kross

458. The Pain/Brain Connection with Alan Gordon

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What makes an explanation feel satisfying, and does that feeling have anything to do with whether it's actually true?

Cognitive scientist Tania Lombrozo, author of Why We Ask Why: The Science of Explanation and the Human Drive to Understand, joins Michael to talk about the human drive to explain: where it comes from and what it buys us. She also makes the case that explanations aren't objects sitting out in the world waiting to be found, but mental acts we construct.

Tania walks through why philosophers and psychologists have circled the same phenomenon from different angles, and why a strong drive to explain isn't an obvious thing to build into an intelligent system in the first place. Curiosity, she explains, works as a filter on the endless supply of questions we could be asking. She also shares what her own lab has found about what actually predicts it, and why a satisfying explanation tends to open up more questions rather than shut inquiry down.

Along the way: Alison Gopnik's provocatively titled paper on the aha moment, and the explore/exploit trade-off behind the randomized summer reading program Tania uses to keep herself exploring. They also get into the self-explanation effect, and why explaining to another person usually beats explaining to yourself. The conversation closes on what to do when a three-year-old asks why, including how to bring a chatbot into that moment without skipping the part where good inquiry gets modeled.

Listen and Learn:

• Why a strong drive to explain isn't an obvious thing to build into an intelligent system, and what seeking explanations actually does for creatures like us
• Why explanations are mental acts rather than facts sitting out in the world, and how a punchline makes that idea concrete
• How curiosity filters the endless supply of questions we could ask, and why we gravitate toward things just one step beyond what we already understand
• What happens to your curiosity right after a satisfying explanation, and why good answers tend to open up more questions instead of closing them off
• The explore/exploit trade-off, and practical ways to build a little more randomness into what you read and what you try
• Why explaining something to another person usually beats explaining it to yourself, and the three things that make the difference
• How to respond when a child asks why, and how to use AI tools with kids without cutting out the modeling of good inquiry

Resources:

• Tania’s book: Why We Ask Why https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780063395008  
• Twitter / X: https://x.com/tanialombrozo?lang=en 
• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/tanialombrozo.bsky.social 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tania-lombrozo 
• Tania's Website: www.tanialombrozo.com http://www.tanialombrozo.com/
• Michael’s Confidence Course http://herold.coach/course

About Tania Lombrozo

Tania Lombrozo is Arthur W. Marks '19 Professor of Psychology at Princeton University. She holds degrees in cognitive science and philosophy from Stanford University and in psychology from Harvard University. Her award-winning research has explored the human drive for explanation in both children and adults. She lives in Princeton, New Jersey, with her husband and two daughters. Her book, Why We Ask Why: The Science of Explanation and the Human Drive to Understand, will be released in October 2026.

Related Episodes:

• 428. How to Fall in Love with Questions with Elizabeth Weingarten
• 385. Oliver Burkeman on Embracing Your Limitations
• 457. Tiny Experiments with Anne-Laure Le Cunff
• 429. May Contain Lies with Alex Edmans

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Navigating a loved one's mental health struggles can feel like walking a tightrope between wanting to save them and trying to keep your own head above water.

In this episode, Dr. David Dozois from the University of Western Ontario highlights his book, What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed, talking through the toll depression can take on relationships and why the supporting partner's experience so often goes unnoticed.

He shares with us why our instinct to "fix" a partner's pain can often backfire, and offers up actionable strategies for giving real support, encouraging treatment, and how to shift from frustration to true connection, without taking on the role of an unpaid therapist.

Plus, David touches on essential self-care, navigating tricky boundary dynamics, and safely approaching heavy, sensitive topics couples tend to avoid.

Listen and Learn: 

• How clinical depression differs from ordinary sadness, how it impacts both partners in a relationship, and actionable, evidence-based strategies to support a depressed partner without burning out or sacrificing their own well-being 
• The complexities of supporting a depressed partner and reveal why the human impulse to "fix" things often backfires, sharing research-backed strategies on how to move from wrestling with your partner to truly connecting with them first 
• The art of true active listening, explaining why genuine empathy means tuning into your partner’s heart rather than just rehearsing your next response 
• Framing depression as a shared "we" problem rather than an individual label to encourage a struggling partner to seek help without putting them on the defensive 
• How non-depressed partners can support their loved one without burning out or slipping into the role of an unpaid therapist 
• How excessive reassurance seeking can strain a relationship, and why setting compassionate boundaries and practicing response prevention are essential for long-term trust
• Navigating the delicate balance between self-care and supporting a loved one through depression 

Resources: 

• David’s Website: https://dozoislab.com
• David’s book: What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed: Supporting Your Loved One While Caring for Yourselfhttps://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/what-to-do-when-your-partner-is-depressed
• Pre-order Yael’s new book, Why Don’t You Understand Me?: The Surprising Science Behind Connecting in a World of Missed Signals. Then fill out THIS form to get pre-order bonuses!
• Link to Yael’s newsletter and (for paid subscribers), a chance to win a copy of David’s book!

About David Dozois

David Dozois is a professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Western Ontario, where he directs the clinical psychology graduate program and studies cognitive vulnerability to depression, the "why" behind who gets stuck in depressive thinking and why it's so hard to climb out. He's published more than 200 scientific articles and books and has served as president of the Canadian Psychological Association twice.

His new book, What to Do When Your Partner Is Depressed: Supporting Your Loved One While Caring for Yourself, tackles something couples therapists see constantly and talk about far too little: depression is never really a solo experience. It moves into the relationship and unpacks its bags. The partner who isn't depressed often becomes the default project manager of the household, the mood, and the marriage, all while getting none of the concern, support, or permission to fall apart themselves. David's work is a rare combination of rigorous science and genuinely useful, human advice for the partner nobody's checking in on.

Related Episodes:

• 135. Power of Empathy and Motivational Interviewing with Stephen Rollnick
• 255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance
• 397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Cordova
• 408. Connecting Like a Hostage Negotiator with Gary Noesner
• 413. Validate with Caroline Fleck
• 449. How to Feel Loved with Sonja Lyubomirsky and Harry Reis
• 472. One Relationship, Two Brains with Cindy Ariel

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