Pulling The Thread with Elise Loehnen

“But what I do do is whenever I read an academic paper is I read around it. I don't just take that as given or assume that that's, you know, now cast in stone and science has nowhere else to go after this paper has been written, but that it sits in a context of other research, um, and evolving. It's always evolving. It's moving towards the truth. It's sometimes very faltering, really the history of sex difference research and race difference research, I think is a really good example of how faltering it can be and how orthodoxies can get created and take a really long time to be corrected. Um, but if you understand it in that historical context, then I think it's easier to accept science for what it is, which is a journey towards truth, rather than assuming that it's already there,” so says Angela Saini, an independent British science journalist, author, and the founder of the ‘Challenging Pseudoscience’ group at the Royal Institution. Angela joins me today to talk about science as fact, and the nuance that comes when we introduce human bias to the equation through interpretation. While Angela originally found a home in the objective and rational field of engineering, she tells us it was her experience as a journalist that opened her eyes to the vested interests and motivations within the scientific community that influenced the research and answers being published and touted as fact. 

Angela has since written two books interrogating the divisive politics embedded in the science of human difference, Inferior: How Science Got Women Wrong-And the New Research That's Rewriting the Story and Superior: The Return of Race Science. Whether it is sex research or race research, certain long-tentacled orthodoxies get created, she tells us, permeating our culture and eliminating any nuance from the conversation. Angela’s work encourages us to dismantle these orthodoxies, which have for so long sat uncomfortably with our lived experiences, and instead, to think more critically about what we assume to be “the norm”. We get into the way our cultural training has impacted our natural genetic destiny, how easy it is to slip into essentialist ideas of what it means to be a woman, and how important it is to embrace intersectional arguments when we talk about equality. When we reflect on who we really are, not just who we have been told to be, she tells us, we open up all the possibilities there are for being human. OK, let's get to our conversation.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

• Interrogating the politics behind the science of human difference…
• Extricating culture from nature…
• There is no one way to be a woman…

MORE FROM ANGELA SAINI:

Inferior: How Science Got Women Wrong-And the New Research That's Rewriting the Story

Superior: The Return of Race Science

Watch her 2019 BBC Documentary - Eugenics: Science's Greatest Scandal

Angela's Website

Follow Angela on Instagram

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“We sort of get into this, you know, relational model. And look, when it's working, when sex is a form of intimacy and merging and lovemaking and a really dissolution of self boundaries, I mean, it's fantastic. It's such a relationship boost and expression of love that only sex can provide. But very often, you know, relational sex can become really rote. It can become really predictable. It can stop serving our need for kind of sexual expansiveness, which is what recreational sex can do, right? Embracing the aspects of sex, embracing variety, embracing that psychological stimuli. Right? I think that's where, especially for heterosexual couples, we don't know how to integrate the relational with the recreational…,” so says Dr. Ian Kerner, my guest today and a licensed psychotherapist and nationally recognized sexuality counselor who specializes in sex therapy, couples therapy and relational issues. Ian is a New York Times best selling author of She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman and the co-founder and co-director of the Sex Therapy program at the Institute for Contemporary Psychology.

Today we discuss his newest book, So Tell Me About the Last Time You Had Sex: Laying Bare and Learning to Repair Our Love Lives as Ian shares the unique methodology he has used in his sex therapy practice to help countless couples rewrite their sex script in order to actualize their sexual potential. We don’t know how to talk about sex, Ian tells us, we have erotic minds but encounter shame around communicating what is in them, leaving us open to impersonal, predictable sex that stops serving our need for sexual expansiveness. 

To avoid falling victim to the plague of rote sex, we must rediscover touch, desire, and fantasy, he tells us. By reimagining and rewriting our sex scripts to include both the physical and psychological components of arousal, the promised land of mutual pleasure is within reach. Ian gives us the tools to get comfortable with the discourse around intercourse, and leaves us with the stepping stones to bridge the gap between the sex we are having and the sex we want to be having. 

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

• Putting language around sex…(8:15)
• Integrating the importance of touch…(13:34)
• Fantasy, psychological arousal and the key to good sex…(25:07)
• The plague of ill-cliteracy...(40:57)

MORE FROM IAN KERNER:

So Tell Me About the Last Time You Had Sex: Laying Bare and Learning to Repair Our Love Lives

She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman

Passionista: The Empowered Woman's Guide to Pleasuring a Man

Love in the Time of Colic: The New Parents' Guide to Getting It on Again

Follow Ian on Twitter

DIG DEEPER:

Come as You Are: Revised and Updated: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life - Emily Nagoski 

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“I've spent many years, like med school residency, as a mom, eight books, which is a lot of deadlines. Just a lot of things that have put me behind eight ball in my relationship to time, like never feeling like I have enough time, never getting through my full checklist, always feeling like I should be doing something more, even when I'm relaxing. So for me, it's taking on too many things at once saying yes, when I really need to say no, or maybe say yes, but not all at once. And just really checking in with, am I feeling spacious? Am I feeling unpressured? Am I feeling like I have the capacity to handle what's on my plate right now?”

So says, Aviva Romm, who has the rare distinguishment of being both a midwife and a Yale-trained M.D. She mediates between the world of allopathic and alternative medicine, using the best of both approaches. From where she stands, balance is critical, particularly for women and our complex and sometimes confounding hormonal systems. Though Aviva Romm has written many books about women’s health, her latest—HORMONE INTELLIGENCE—is somewhat of a bible for many women I know, offering insight into the natural process of shifting hormones during different phases of our lives, as well as advice for treating all-too-common maladies like PCOS.

While we dive into some of these details in today’s conversation, Aviva and I primarily talk about what it is to be a woman today, along with our collective ambivalence about aging, and the necessity of honoring older women—particularly ourselves. We also get into stress and the way we’ve been trained to use hyper-vigilance and anxiety as prods for perfection and what it feels like to let that go, and drop into our own bodies, to hear from them directly on what they need. OK, let’s to get to our conversation.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

• Bridging the gap between how we feel and how we want to feel…(10:49)
• Hormone intelligence and our innate knowing…(23:33)
• Embracing the maiden, the mother, (the queen), and the crone…(42:58)

MORE FROM AVIVA ROMM, M.D.:

Hormone Intelligence: The Complete Guide to Calming Hormone Chaos and Restoring Your Body's Natural Blueprint for Well-Being

The Adrenal Thyroid Revolution: A Proven 4-Week Program to Rescue Your Metabolism, Hormones, Mind & Mood

Aviva's Website

Listen to Aviva’s Podcast, Natural MD Radio on Spotify and Apple Podcasts

Follow Dr. Romm on Instagram and Twitter

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Today’s guest is Elizabeth Lesser, bestselling author of classics like Broken Open, and co-founder of the Omega Institute, an internationally recognized retreat center, renowned for its workshops and conferences in wellness, spirituality, creativity, and social change. Throughout her life, Elizabeth has been somewhat of a doula for people in transition, for those who are looking for answers to some of life’s biggest questions—she helps them cross chasms, simply by pointing out the path

“The obviousness of something that has been with us forever and must change, is often the most painful part”, she says.

Lesser joins me today to talk about her newest book, Cassandra Speaks: When Women are the Storytellers, the Human Story Changes, which interrogates the way in which our origin tales and hero myths, where men are the prototype human, continue to influence our culture. She reminds us that these old stories are only half natural, and challenges us to activate, fund, and educate the emotional and caring nature we all possess, to face our shadows in order to recreate an Eden in which there is room for everyone. 

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

• Women, storytelling, and paying attention to the world within us
• Elevating the importance of the caretaker
• Changing systems, changing self

MORE FROM ELIZABETH LESSER:

Omega Institute

Cassandra Speaks

Broken Open

Marrow

The Seeker’s Guide

Follow Elizabeth on Instagram  and Twitter

DIG DEEPER:

Biobehavioral Responses to Stress in Females: Tend-and-Befriend, Not Fight-or-Flight - Shelley Taylor, UCLA

In the Bonobo World, Female Camaraderie Prevails - NYT, Natalie Angier

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 “Are you doing something that brings you joy? Are you doing something that brings you fulfillment? Do you take yourself seriously when you have a dream or do you say, “Oh you are being too big for your britches?” What happens with morning pages is we are led into expansion —we are trained by the pages to take risks. The first risk is putting it on the page, the second risk is saying to yourself, “Oh I couldn’t try that.” The pages keep nudging you, and finally you say, “Oh alright I’ll try,” and the “oh alright I’ll try” is what brings you to an expanded sense of self because the risk you are afraid to take soon becomes the risk you have taken…” so says Julia Cameron, best-selling author of more than forty books, poet, songwriter, filmmaker and playwright. Hailed by many as “The Godmother” of creativity, Julia is credited with starting a movement in 1992 that has brought creativity into the mainstream. Her book, The Artist’s Way, has been translated into forty languages and sold over five million copies to date, inspiring millions of readers with its egalitarian view of creativity: We’ve all got it, and Julia is on a mission to help us unlock it. The book bestows the reader with a practical toolkit, including the famous Morning Pages and Artist Dates, in service of the broader creative journey and personal rejuvenation. Her newest book, Seeking Wisdom, explores connecting to the artistic process through prayer.

In this episode of Pulling the Thread, Julia and I talk creativity, process, and purpose. We are so worried about being selfish, Julia says, that we end up investing disproportionately in the lives and dreams of others—sacrificing our own passions in the process. Her approach guides readers, one step at a time, out of a stymied life and into a more expansive, more joyful existence, opening up opportunities for self-growth and self-discovery. I hope our conversation resonates with the creator in all of you. 

MORE FROM JULIA CAMERON:

SEEKING WISDOM

THE ARTIST’S WAY

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“But the true guru, you know, the Buddha came and turned all that inside out. You know the Buddha taught the Four Noble Truths and the word he used, “the Noble,” that came out of that, like the Brahmans were the Nobles. But the Buddha was like, no, the Nobles aren't, it's not that priest over there, lighting the fire, the sacred fire, the noble thing is like your own ethic, your own internal ethic, your own loving heart is the noble thing. The Buddha was all about that. He was a good, you know, cognitive therapist in that way, turning, turning people's concepts inside out.”

So says Mark Epstein, a psychiatrist and Buddhist who has written several brilliant and beautiful books about the Venn diagram of meditation and therapy. In his latest: THE ZEN OF THERAPY, he reveals more of his own backstory, how as a young med school student trying to bridge the gap between his role as a doctor and his love of Eastern spirituality he came to help Dr. Benson study meditation and its benefits for the body. He opens the books though, by explaining that meditation is not a panacea, it is instead a rare opportunity to get quiet with yourself, to observe your own mind, and to process your emotions.

In the ZEN OF THERAPY, Mark recounts a year of therapy sessions where he was able to provide psychotherapy paired WITH Buddhist insights—it’s a wonderful and fascinating book—I personally LOVE reading about peoples’ therapy sessions—and it offers many takeaways for anyone, including the ways in which we fixate on our childhoods rather than focusing on the evolution of our own identities, and where our own resistance to change can point the way to healing. OK, let’s get to our conversation.

MORE FROM MARK EPSTEIN, M.D.

THE ZEN OF THERAPY by Mark Epstein, M.D.

ADVICE NOT GIVEN by Mark Epstein, M.D.

THE TRAUMA OF EVERYDAY LIFE by Mark Epstein, M.D.

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“My goal isn't to not be afraid, my goal is to have a relationship with fear. So I presume fear is going to be part of the picture. So my goal is more to have a relationship to that fear so I can move with it so I can push back on it so I can learn from it. Um, and so it doesn't have so much power over me, but I, I've not, I've not met any truly fearless people. It's more that I've met people who understand their fear and have made peace with it.” So says BJ Miller, a remarkable doctor who specializes in palliative medicine and end-of-life care, which ironically means that he spends most of his time teaching people how to really live.

When BJ was an undergrad at Princeton, he climbed an electrified train car and ended up as a triple-amputee and long-term patient. Understanding the healthcare system from the inside out inspired him to go to medical school—and it also put him into a deep and reflective dance with mortality, fear, and what it means to lean into life. He has become a cultural sherpa, showing us all what this looks like. These days, he is the founder of Mettle Health, which makes palliative care more accessible: He offers virtual consultations and guidance for individuals and families dealing with practical, emotional, and existential issues. 

He joins me today as we discuss his work on life, death, and how we go about handling the in between. Our conversation covers the cultural numbness to death in the abstract and the concrete fear that arises when death becomes personal. We forget, BJ says, that suffering and dying are fundamental and intrinsic parts of life. When we allow ourselves to acknowledge the many small deaths that occur throughout our lives—whether it be the death of a relationship, of a career, or of a way of life - we can use these moments to practice losing and letting go, gaining clarity around what truly matters in the process. The goal, BJ tells us, is not to be unafraid of the end, but rather to cultivate a love of life so big, that it encompasses death as well. I am thrilled to call BJ a dear friend, and am even MORE thrilled to bring this conversation to you as we contemplate the year that just was, and the year to come. 

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

• Contemplating death and a fascination with life…
• Big deaths, small deaths…
• The illusive sweet spot of perspective…
• Stripping down…

MORE FROM BJ MILLER

A BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO THE END by BJ Miller

Mettle Health

BJ Miller - What Really Matters at the End of Life - Ted Talk, 2015

One Man's Quest to Change the Way We Die - The New York Times Magazine

After a Freak Accident, a Doctor Finds Insight into Living Life and Facing Death - BJ on NPR's Fresh Air with Terry Gross

Follow BJ on Twitter

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“Like family relationship has obligations that go both ways. Hopefully there's unconditional love there, but it's also the, like your re your family and, and, and the other people in your family see you as family too. But in a job, if you, the, the whole family thing goes one way, you're supposed to give and give and give and give and, and, and, and feel this like guilt and obligation to your company and your coworkers, your company at any moment can sever those ties, you know, your is at will employment in, in this country. And, and, and so, like, that's not part of a, a family thing. That's not unconditional. Your job is totally conditional.”

So says Charlie Warzel, who together with Anne Helen Petersen, wrote OUT OF OFFICE: THE BIG PROBLEM AND BIGGER PROMISE OF WORKING FROM HOME. Petersen and Warzel, ditched New York City for the promise of a better life/work balance out west a few years ago, which gave them a headstart on understanding the reality of working from home—before it became a reality for the rest of the world through the pandemic. Both culture, media, and technology journalists for Buzzfeed at the time, they found that the promise of work from home was not a panacea for more time to spend in nature: Like the rest of us—just earlier—they discovered that they were spending even more time PERFORMING their work, showing their managers back in New York City that they deserved the privilege of being untethered from a traditional office. Being out of the office only added to their anxiety and overwhelm.

So when COVID hit, they were already aware of both the the pitfalls and potential of work from home—their fantastic book, which just came out, offers a survey of how we find ourselves in this intractable bind today, where for too many of us, our jobs have taken over the center of our lives, and how we can use this opportunity to reshape workplaces for a more sustainable future. In our conversation we talk about how we don’t prioritize the art of managers, how the idea of time and output is problematic for so many people who are not, actually machines, and what a more inclusive and human HR structure might look like, if it weren’t engineered to avoid abuse and instead could focus solely on providing support. Let’s get to our conversation.

MORE FROM ANNE HELEN PETERSEN & CHARLIE WARZEL

OUT OF OFFICE by Anne Helen Petersen & Charlie Warzel

CAN’T EVEN by Anne Helen Petersen

THE BURNOUT GENERATION by Anne Helen Petersen

“Galaxy Brain” newsletter from Charlie Warzel

“Culture Study” newsletter from Anne Helen Petersen

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“Outside the legal context, I'm urging readers and listeners in this case to think very deliberately about whether that high standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt is really necessary before a person will believe so to speak, will feel confident enough to offer, let's say, support to a roommate or to a coworker. And I want to suggest that we should actually require much less by way of certainty and confidence in order to offer that kind of support to someone who is in an informal setting coming to us as a kind of first responder, because this is how most allegations surface. People rarely go to the police. First more often, they turn to a trusted confidant, someone within their inner circle. And it's the response of that individual that's likely to affect the trajectory to come” so says Deborah Tuerkheimer, a Harvard and Yale-educated lawyer, former New York District Attorney specializng in domestic violence and child abuse protection and current professor at the Northwestern Pritzker School of Law where she teaches and writes about criminal law, evidence, and feminist legal theory. To say she is impressive is a massive understatement.

Today she joins me to discuss her book, CREDIBLE: Why We Doubt Accusers and Protect Abusers. We dive into a conversation about credibility and sexual assault: What makes a credible victim? How do culture, law, and psychology shape our judgement? And how can our systems be more responsive to the needs of survivors? In the court of cultural opinion, Deb says, we disservice so many victims by dismissing and discounting their pain that sometimes, the aftermath is almost worse than the event itself. We talk about the myth of the false accuser, underreporting as a reflection of our cultural credibility context, and the dangerous archetypes of the perfect victim and the monster abuser. 

Finally, we discuss the push for restorative justice processes, which must begin with an acknowledgement of responsibility from the offender, and then go on to ask: “What will it take to repair the harm?”, ultimately turning to the victim and their community to answer that question. 

Please note that today’s episode contains information about sexual assault and/or violence which may be triggering to survivors - I encourage you to care for your safety and well-being.

MORE FROM DEB TUERKHEIMER

CREDIBLE: Why We Doubt Accusers and Protect Abusers

More Books, Articles and Op-Eds by Deb Tuerkheimer

Deb's Website

DIG DEEPER:

RAINN: the nation’s largest anti-sexual violence organization

National Sexual Assault Hotline: 800.656.HOPE

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“I think what COVID did was it really made people realize that the state of their emotions, the state of their relationships, all of those things that felt very optional, meaning they were important to people, but in the rushing around of daily life, you, you could kind of ignore them a little bit. Um, you know, you didn't have to really think about them or face them. They weren't, a mirror was not being held up to you in the way that it was during COVID. And so I think that the, the good thing that came out of all of this is that people really said, oh, I want to understand this better.”

So says Lori Gottlieb, one of my favorite conversation partners. Lori is a psychotherapist and the author of the bestselling MAYBE YOU SHOULD TALK TO SOMEONE, which is a brilliant exploration of what it means to be in therapy and be a therapist—in her storytelling, she manages to touch on everything from existential anxiety to inconceivable loss. She’s also the co-host of the DEAR THERAPIST podcast, a brilliant show that tackles peoples’ real problems, like narcissistic partners and parental alienation. In today’s episode of this podcast, Lori and I get into the impact of COVID on our partnerships, the often uncredited grief of single people, and how we can come to deepen the intimacy of our most important relationships, whether they’re with lovers, friends, family, or even co-workers.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

• We’re all unreliable narrators…(6:05)
• Emotional egalitarianism…(16:00)
• COVID and the great reprioritization…(22:53)
• When is it time to let a relationship go...(36:44)

MORE FROM LORI:

Maybe You Should Talk to Someone

Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: The Workbook

Dear Therapists Podcast

Lori's Website

Lori's Instagram

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