Pushing The Limits

How to develop mental toughness for sport business and life

Developing mental toughness is an underrated skill in, not only sport performance, but in business and for overcoming life's many challenges and obstacles. With the right mindset and approach you can achieve more than you ever thought possible.

Professional adventure athlete Lisa Tamati who has over 25 years experience racing in the worlds toughest endurance races, takes you through her top tips on developing the right mindset and mental toughness in sport and high performance.

Such things as: how you perceive the upcoming challenge how to tap into your parasympathetic nervous system to control your physiology how to deal with failure how to deal with fear. Includes advice for coaching athletes and putting positive frameworks around each experience -good or bad and how to build on success. For more inspirational and educational training and mindset videos or for specialised personalised coaching plans for achieving your sporting goals please visit us at www.lisatamati.co.nz and Lisas' coaching page, www.runninghotcoaching.com Please also subscribe to our channel and visit us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati/

If you would like to download our free 5 day run training ecourse go to https://goto.runninghotcoaching.com/running

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete? Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

Getting a disease is inevitable; no one is exempt from it. Some people are fortunate enough to be cured of their illnesses. However, some diseases and conditions do not have cures, such as cancer.

In a pandemic-stricken world, a deeper understanding of our immune system is crucial now more than ever. The body's immune system is the body's primary defence against sickness and disease. By learning the inner workings of our body, we can help support and prepare ourselves to fight cancer and keep ourselves healthy.

In this episode, Dr Elizabeth Yurth shares her knowledge on the effects of cancer and viruses on our immune system. She talks about alternative approaches based on scientific evidence that goes hand in hand with traditional cancer treatments, ranging from spermidine to vitamin D and zinc. Become pre-emptive and preventive when it comes to your health! Get ahead of diseases through early diagnosis.

If you want to learn more about how you can help your immune system fight cancer and other diseases, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

1. Understand how your immune system works against viruses and cancer cells.
2. Learn more alternative approaches to cancer treatment aside from chemotherapy and radiation.
3. Discover how early testing and screening can help improve your overall health.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up

For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at [email protected], we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at [email protected].

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa's Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

• NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
• NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
• 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
• 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

• Cellular Health
• Energy & Focus
• Bone Density
• Skin Elasticity
• DNA Repair
• Cardiovascular Health
• Brain Health
• Metabolic Health

My 'Fierce' Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights 01:04 Lisa's Journey with Cancer and her Mom

Lisa's mother has been diagnosed with high-grade diffuse B-cell lymphoma. These recent events have motivated Lisa to delve deeper into cancer research. Understanding how cancer works and the approaches besides traditional procedures such as chemotherapy and radiation are necessary and relevant. In the following episodes, she will be doing a series of interviews revolving around the theme of cancer.

09:12 How Cancer Rewrites the Definition of Healthy

When diagnosed with cancer, building muscles and promoting metabolic activity becomes less of a priority. The goal of cancer treatment is to slow everything down. We want to get rid of damaged cells and generate new ones. Dr Yurth adds that while it is vital to maintain glucose levels and everything, the general goal is to block muscle growth. Cancer begins at a mitochondrial level, and cancer cells need tons of energy to support their growth rate. We need to block all the typical pathways that make us healthy to stop its growth.

12:58 Spermidine and Autophagy Pathways

The effects of spermidine are different for different types of cancer, but it appears to be very beneficial to patients suffering from colon cancer. Blocking the polyamine pathways in prostate cancer has been good in getting rid of cancer cells. A high dose of spermidine will result in a dramatic autophagy effect. However, Dr Yurth advises that she wouldn't recommend this until research reveals more information.

Another good approach is doxycycline. Mitochondria started as bacteria and have their own DNA. Since doxycycline is an antibacterial agent, it works well in getting rid of these mitochondria. Dr Yurth advises us to stick to approaches that have better answers.

17:19 Autophagy as Recycling

Cancer cells can use recycled proteins as another fuel source, so it's vital to block these pathways. Dipyridamole is a drug that works well in blocking nucleotide salvage pathways. However, chemotherapeutic drugs work on only one pathway, and cancer cells tend to find other pathways to get their energy, which makes working against these cells challenging.

19:00 Fight Cancer By Starving It

Dr Yurth remarks that McClellan's work that includes safe, inexpensive, and readily available drugs in combating cancer is an innovative approach. She recommends doing them hand in hand with conventional approaches to cancer. Most oncologists will discourage patients from taking unconventional practices with cancer treatments.

21:25 Taking Others' Input, Making Own Decisions

We need new scientific research about making decisions about cancer treatment. For example, there may be detrimental effects to patients undergoing unconventional approaches. Dr Yurth adds that she does extensive research in everything she does.

23:00 Drug Interactions

Understanding drug interactions is vital in understanding cancer treatments. However, oncologists only look at it at the metabolic cellular level and follow their study protocols.

23:34 Understanding the Metabolism of Cancer

Cancer is not just a genetic disease. While genetics causes a disposition towards cancer, the disease itself starts in the mitochondria. The mitochondria are independent and can become cancerous. There is no homogenous pattern when it comes to cancer cells mutating. That is why we need to treat the mitochondria and target metabolism.

26:20 Progress in Understanding Cancer

There has been headway in understanding cancer, but you'll realise that research in the field has gotten further if we put everything together. The immune system responds appropriately to keep the cancer cells in check. However, as we age, the immune system becomes dysfunctional and can no longer get rid of cancer cells. Cancer is an age-related disease because the immune system starts to deteriorate. Viruses like cytomegalovirus, Epstein Barr virus (EBV), and COVID end up sticking around and dysregulating the immune system. Over time, these viruses can eventually link to a form of cancer.

28:40 Viruses and their Relationship to the Immune System

Over time, the immune system becomes depleted in keeping check with viruses in the body. The ratio of neutrophils and lymphocytes is vital for keeping your immune system working well. Having disproportionate lymphocytes means that your immune system can't protect your body from viruses. Dr Yurth shares that her son's white blood cell count dropped after experiencing EBV and COVID at the same time. Many people don't appreciate how viruses play a role in the long haul in our immune system. Dr Yurth suggests looking more aggressively at latent viruses in the body. Getting a simple CBC can determine how your immune system is currently faring.

33:53 What Peptides Are

Peptides are, in a sense, small proteins. A protein has more than 50 amino acids, and peptides have less than 50 amino acids. Our body makes thousands of peptides, each made with a specific function. Synthetic peptides are also present in the body. The thymus gland, responsible for producing peptides, becomes smaller as we age. For patients with autoimmune diseases, giving back peptide thymosin alpha 1 in doses helps their immune system fight viruses. Some countries use a drug called Daxon for this purpose or as an adjunct to vaccines. Immune system support is critical for cancer patients going through chemotherapy. However, this remains an expensive and inaccessible approach.

39:12 Emerging Home Diagnostic Tests in the Market

It is vital to get ahead and find early signs of diseases through testing. Dr Yurth shares an anecdote of her patient with dementia. There is a correlation between the brain scan and the immune system test results, which pointed towards a viral influence. Your lymphocyte count can be the marker in determining the status of your immune system.

40:52 Being Pre-emptive and Preventive

Your GP typically has you undergo a CBC test, but the results of this test tend to go overlooked. The risk of dying becomes dramatically higher when your blood count is above 1.5 to 1. Albumin dropping is a sign that the body is in a stressed state. This marker predicts if your body will respond well to cancer. Cell size and red blood cell distribution can also help healthcare providers determine the health status of your cells.

43:13 Background on Dr Yurth's BLI Academy Course

The course will be available in January and includes a blood test. Dr Yurth and her team will walk you through your test results and the possible diseases you need to consider. It's essential to look for markers that tell you if something's wrong with your body. There are long term ramifications to latent viruses such as EPV, which could lead to lymphoma.

46:25 COVID and How You Can Support the Immune System

Vitamin D is essential to support your immune system fight viruses, and by extension, fight cancer and the coronavirus. Dr Yurth recommends 1000 IU/day of Vitamin D and taking it with Vitamin K2 intracellularly. People lacking a binding protein may experience issues taking Vitamin D naturally through sunlight exposure. Fortunately, there are substitutes, including certain wavelength lamps and supplements. Sunlight exposure and vitamin D influences the frequency of colds and flu in winter. The vitamin D levels from the sun decrease during this season.

50:07 The Importance of Vitamin D

Vitamin D upregulates an antimicrobial peptide, LL 37, which fights infections. Instead of buying expensive LL 37, you can take more vitamin D and upregulate your own LL 37. It is a great antiviral agent as well. Some people fear getting too much vitamin D. However, studies have shown that you need to be taking massive amounts before it becomes toxic. Dr Yurth recollects the case of a patient taking around 500,000 IU/day. When she stopped taking massive amounts, her levels went back to normal.

52:17 The Problem with Taking Vitamin D Naturally

Wearing sunblock can protect us from skin cancer and wrinkles but can also affect vitamin D absorption. African Americans and people of Mediterranean origin have skin less likely to be damaged by sun rays but tend to have lower vitamin D levels. In contrast, people who have Norwegian and similar European origins have higher vitamin D levels because their bodies aren't under the sun all the time. Through testing, you can determine if you need more vitamin D in your body.

53:54 The Importance of Zinc

Viruses use your zinc to replicate. Zinc deficiency is present in people who contracted COVID, causing loss of taste and smell. A smell test is employed to determine whether a person has zinc deficiency. Higher levels of zinc can help protect our bodies against viral infections. Dr Yurth recommends a 1:1 zinc and copper ratio. You can add 2 milligrams of copper along with your zinc intake or use copper peptide face creams to achieve this recommendation. Some patients can take GHK Copper peptide intravenously or topically.

56:52 Quercetin and Resveratrol

Quercetin helps get zinc into the cell. Resveratrol and Quercetin also help in treating viruses. These drugs also block glucose transport which makes them beneficial in treating cancer.

57:52 Honokiol or Magnolia Bark Extract and Zeolite

Also known as Relora, it is an immune-modulating agent with antiviral properties. The drug has an adrenal function; it relieves stress and calms down cortisol present in the body at night. Zeolite is volcanic ash that forms a negatively charged structure upon hitting the water. Dentists commonly use it for mercury detox. Its cage-like structure can trap harmful toxins and viruses that get into our bodies. It also has anti-cancer properties. Ingesting zeolite while undergoing chemotherapy is not recommended because it can get rid of the toxins present in the treatment.

1:02:04 Mental Work in the Cancer Journey

As a caretaker, stress shows prominent signs in physical and mental health. Dr Yurth shares that when her mother died in September, her father's prostate cancer was exacerbated by stress, which eventually led to his death. Similarly, Lisa's family experienced the loss of her father, followed by her mother's cancer diagnosis. Don't neglect the mental side of cancer.

Resources

• Buy Healthspan Hacks: 4-part series Course
• Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
• How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland
• Visit Lorraine Picard's website for copper peptide creams here.
• Interested in BLI Academy Courses? Check out their offered services here.
• Learn more from Dr Elizabeth Yurth from her previous podcast episodes:
• • Episode 187: Back to Basics: Slow Down Ageing and Promote Longevity with Dr Elizabeth Yurth
  • Rethinking the Function of Mitochondria for Our Health with Dr Elizabeth Yurth
• You can also check out Dr Elizabth Yurth's podcast with the Boulder Longevity Institute here!
• Connect with Dr Elizabeth Yurth: Instagram l LinkedIn

7 Powerful Quotes

"What happens in cancer though, is we have this accumulation of damage. And so now we have to go really aggressively at getting rid of everything that's allowing cell growth."

"Neutrophils, think of them as your chronic inflammatory and lymphocytes are your innate immune system. When your innate immune system starts to become taxed and not functioning well, then you'll start to see your lymphocyte count drop,"

"I'm never an advocate of saying, Don't do all traditional approaches, because I do think there's some value to them, but we want to support the body along with it."

"And yet, we know that for every point above 1.5, to 1 that your risk of dying goes up considerably. You know, it's dramatic. And there are other little signs too, that things are going awry."

"(A higher risk) happens as we get older because our immune system is now taxed for so long. So if we could say okay, yes, you had this virus, let's try and eradicate it. Let's keep your immune system as healthy as it can, you know, until 150."

"The data really supports that if your vitamin D is robust, your likelihood of getting sick is really small."

"The studies have shown that it has to be taking massive amounts of (vitamin D) to ever become toxic. So at 10,000 IU/day, nobody is going to become toxic. You really honestly don't have to worry."

About Dr Yurth

Dr Elizabeth Yurth is the co-founder and medical director of the Boulder Longevity Institute.

Dr Elizabeth Yurth has more than 25 years of experience as a practising orthopedist specialising in sports, spine, and regenerative medicine.

She has a Stanford affiliated Fellowship in Sports and Spine Medicine and a dual-Fellowship in Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine (FAARM) and Anti-Aging, Regenerative and Functional Medicine (FAARFM) through the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M).

She also has a Fellowship in Human Potential and Epigenetic Medicine and is one of the first providers to receive the A4M National Peptide Certification. She also serves as a faculty member in the same organisation and the International peptide Society (IPS).

You can connect with Dr Yurth through her Instagram and LinkedIn.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise their immune system and fight disease more efficiently.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email ([email protected]) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

So much about the world remains unknown. What lies in the ocean's depths, the composition of outer space, life after COVID — these are all questions yet to be answered. However, we can discover different solutions for many unresolved problems using critical thinking. We need to stop looking for answers today and look forward; we need to seek the art of the possible.

In this episode, Dr Joe Dituri draws from his research and experience to discuss hyperbaric oxygen therapy, space travel, and the right approach to battling COVID. One might think that it takes an advanced academic degree to tackle these concerns and mysteries. However, in the episode, we'll learn that qualifications aren't all there is to it. Finally, he shares how research and studying can unlock doors to a whole world of possibilities.

Tune in if you want to learn more about harnessing the art of the possible.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

1. Understand more about hyperbaric oxygen therapy and oxygen toxicity.
2. Hear Dr Joe's opinion on how we can solve the current COVID situation — and why the research and doctoral approach just won't cut it.
3. Learn about the importance of diversity of thought and the art of the possible.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up

For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at [email protected]. We can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at [email protected].

Order My Books

My latest book, Relentless, chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa's Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

• NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
• NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
• 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
• 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility.

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

• Cellular Health
• Energy & Focus
• Bone Density
• Skin Elasticity
• DNA Repair
• Cardiovascular Health
• Brain Health
• Metabolic Health

My 'Fierce' Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:03] Dr Joe's Background

• Dr Joe did so poorly in his studies that he had no choice but to join the Navy.
• He has poor vision due to congenital ocular albinism. However, refusing to wear glasses impeded his learning potential.
• While his mother taught him his work ethic, the Navy taught him discipline.
• After finding out his learning method, he earned his bachelor's degree in Computer Science and became a Navy Special Operations Officer.

[11:22] Becoming a Navy Commander

• Dr Joe trained to walk on the ocean floor more than swim
• during his time as a Navy diver.
• He became a great diver and started writing papers after expanding his diving knowledge.
• His papers and diving expertise resulted in him receiving a promotion as the officer-in-charge of the Deep Submergence Unit.
• Upon building a dry combat submersible and bending a few rules, they came up with organisation state rules for the American Bureau of Shipping.

[18:25] Life After the Navy

• After finishing 28 years in the Navy, Dr Joe decided to write a paper on the ketogenic diet.
• There was a hypothesis that using a ketogenic diet could stave off epileptic seizures on one side. Joe wondered if it would work for hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
• Then, he decided to pursue a PhD in Biomedical Engineering to write the paper.
• After writing the paper, Dr Dom D'Agostino invited Joe to work in his laboratory and write a few chapters on a book together.

[23:19] Combating Oxygen Toxicity

• When you're diving, seizure won't kill you; drowning will.
• Joe's PhD was about designing an early warning detection system for when the autonomic nervous system is stressed.
• They also redesigned the current spacesuit.

[30:36] What Extreme Diving Is Like

• If there's a leak in your suit at 810 PSI, it would cut you in half and fuse you.
• With extreme diving, he needed to be calm about his potential death. The fear encouraged more careful measures.
• Being in charge of the detachment meant Joe carried a significant responsibility on his shoulders.
• Coming to terms with that responsibility, he devised a robust training plan and surrounded himself with people to help him execute it.

[34:58] His Diving Experience

• They did a scientific expedition on the Britannic to learn why it sank.
• The black coral dive was the most dangerous dive he's performed. The swinging of the hammer in the water takes so much energy, and it attracts sharks.
• Your body has compensatory mechanisms that allow you to dive as deep as 2,000 feet underwater.
• They're looking to break the record by living in an aquatic environment for 100 days. This endeavour also serves as survival training in extreme conditions.
• Everything we need to survive is on this planet — we just need to look in new places.

[48:05] The Art of the Possible

• We're all just trying to figure out what we're supposed to do.
• It's not about what is state of the art. Instead, consider the art of the possible. Always keep your eyes ahead.

[54:53] The COVID Situation

• Viruses will kill people.
• We need a common-sense approach rooted in a combination of politics, medicine, and business rather than just a blanket doctoral approach.
• Shaming and blaming are fear tactics used during the vaccination period.
• Rather than pointing fingers, it's more important to find a solution to the problem.

[1:00:32] What He's Currently Doing

• He's working at the Undersea Oxygen Clinic, where they're doing clinical research and a wide variety of treatments.
• Medicare doesn't hold all the answers; we could refer to the HMO since they have good interests at heart.
• Tune in to the full episode to find out his studies on post-COVID patients and why sometimes the research itself is the wrong attitude!

[1:12:52] Degree vs. Diversity of Thought

• You can't expect everything to work right away.
• Degrees and titles mean nothing compared to the ability to think outside the box. The art of the possible requires looking ahead.
• In the U.S., some legislations grant patients with a terminal diagnosis the right to dictate their own cure.

7 Powerful Quotes

'There's enough problems that can kill you, and the ocean will happily and gleefully kill you without blinking an eye. It won't even recognise that you're there, so… you actually have to give it a good dose of respect.'

'... everything that we need on this planet exists on this planet to survive.'

'It's not about the state of the art; it's about the art of the possible. Because the state of the art is yesterday and right now. The art of the possible is way the hell out there.'

'I firmly believe that [the solution to COVID] needs to be rooted not in politics. Not in medicine, but in a combination of politics and medicine and business and acumen.'

'People will do everything, and then do hyperbarics. Then they go, 'Hyperbarics didn't work.' Well, yeah, because you waited until the end to try it. If you had done it, it might have helped earlier.'

'...what degree you have, what title you put before your name, what title you put after your name, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. If you are a person that can think outside the box, I'd much rather have you in my corner.'

'If you are supposedly at the end of life and have been given a terminal diagnosis and I'm going to die if I do things the way you want to do, then why do you care?'

Resources

• Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
• Learn more about the Undersea Oxygen Clinic.
• Connect with Dr Joe: Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram | Website

About Dr Joe

Dr Joe Dituri is a retired Navy Commander and a consultant for the International Board of Undersea Medicine. He's currently the President of the Undersea Oxygen Clinic and the CEO of the Association for Marine Exploration.

He earned his bachelor's degree in Computer Science from the University of South Carolina, a Master's degree in Astronautical Engineering from Naval Post Graduate School, and a PhD in Biomedical Engineering at the University of South Florida. Enlisting in the U.S. Navy in 1985, he was commissioned in Special Operations and became Officer-in-Charge Deep Submergence Unit (DSU) Diving Systems Detachment (DSD). He also won several awards during his service.

Joe has written numerous diver-training manuals, co-authored "Tao of Survival Underwater", contributed to Hyperbaric Medical Practice (4th edition) and the Navy Diving Manual, and has been published in several journals. Currently, he is interested in writing books, skydiving, and being a civilian astronaut.

Learn more about Dr Joe's work, including hyperbaric oxygen therapy, on his website.

You can also connect with him on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Dr. Sherr believes that Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) -- the administration of 100% oxygen at greater than atmospheric pressure -- is one of the most powerful ways to decreasing inflammation, accelerate wound healing, and optimise both physical and mental performance. He is one of the few HBOT providers in the USA that creates personalised treatment plans for patients that include cutting edge & dynamic HBOT protocols, adjunctive technologies, laboratory testing, and nutritional interventions. Dr. Sherr is the Director of Integrative Hyperbaric Medicine and Health Optimization at Hyperbaric Medical Solutions, in addition to operating his own independent hyperbaric consultation practice and performing in-person consultations in the San Francisco Bay Area (where he lives). Dr. Sherr aims to create access and educate all those who may benefit from HBOT through telemedicine consulting, advocacy, and education practice worldwide. I wanted to share this second episode with Dr Sherr (he was on back in episode 77) to go even deeper into the little known facts about hyperbaric oxygen therapy like making epigenetic shifts, angiogenesis, stem cell production, lymph drainage and how it influences around 8000 genes in the body. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy was a major component in my mother, Isobel's rehabilitation after a devastating brain injury over 4 years ago. Isobel was left with hardly any higher functioning, the brain damage was so severe she was unable to control her body in any meaningful fashion, had virtually no memory, no speech and was let in the . stage of a toddler at the age of 74. But after three months in hospital and after months studying hyperbaric oxygen therapy and searching for somewhere to get her access to it I was lucky enough to find a chamber to use. What followed was in my opinion nothing short of miraculous. and now after thousands of hours of training, combined with supplementation and diet changes and over 250 hyperbaric sessions later. Mum is completely normal again, can walk, read, write, do all her normal daily duties and is living a full life again, her doctor saying is a one in a million comeback story. This is why I was so excited to get one of the worlds leading experts on this therapy to speak on my podcast and to explain much clearer and better than I ever could, just what the mechanisms of HBOT are and the benefits, limitations and research going into this area of medicine. My book "Relentless" which is out now on my website and everywhere good books are sold shares our journey with hyperbaric among other adjunctive therapies. If you or anyone you know would be interested in purchasing a hyperbaric chamber, contact [email protected] for more details.

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible] brought to you by lisatamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:12) Well hi everyone. Fantastic to have you back again on pushing the limits today. I have a fantastic interview with Dr. Scott Scheer, who is a physician out of the United States. Now Scott, Dr. Scott has been on my podcast previously and it was one of the most popular episodes, so I'm really, really privileged to have him back on. Yeah, Dr. Scott is a pioneer in health optimization medicine and in this episode we really going and doing a deep dive into one of my favorite therapies, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, but we're also going to be talking about meta below mix in the hollow biome. Yeah, Dr. Scott is a position certified in the health optimization medicine and in hyperbaric same time and he uses both of these protocols and adjunctive technologies. Uh, he's a father of four and he's an incredible, uh, really outside of the box thinker and I love his approach to his work. Speaker 2: (01:04) So I'm hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Scott shoe. Just a reminder, my book [inaudible] is now out. And, uh, my story with my mom was all, uh, one of the cornerstone therapies was hyperbaric oxygen therapy and I was, it was wonderful to connect with Dr. Scott about that previously and to learn all about hyperbaric. So I hope you enjoy this interview and if you want to grab the book while you're at it, he don't have it to my website, lisatamati.com and there was a lengthier under the shop for the books, so check them all out. Thanks for listening and we'll see you again soon. And now over to Dr. Scott. Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here and very excited to have you on board again today for an exciting episode. I have Dr. Scott Scheer with me who is a hyperbaric specialist, uh, from the States and he is, uh, had been on my show before and he is now coming back on here. It was one of the most popular episodes on the whole show. So I'm really, really excited to have Dr. Scott Beck and he's actually sitting in his own hyperbaric chamber right now and doing the interview from inside his own hyperbaric. So Dr. Scott, how are you doing? Speaker 3: (02:16) I'm doing well. Can you hear me okay, Lisa? Speaker 2: (02:18) Yeah, it's not too bad. We might have to ramp up the volume when we're doing the either thing, but we'll give it a go. See, here we go. Okay, Speaker 3: (02:26) sounds good. Speaker 2: (02:27) I'm sorry. Speaker 3: (02:31) Yes, I'm in my own chamber. I, um, I have my own mild hyperbaric units. Mild hyperbaric therapy is defined as hyperbaric therapy, less than or 1.3 atmospheres or more superficial than that. Um, and so these chambers go to about 15 feet of seawater equivalent. Um, and these chambers are approved for home use. Um, and I use them for a lot of different reasons, but personally I use it for just overall health and wellness, cognitive capacity enhancements, muscle recovery, jet lag, and a couple of other other indications. The chamber is nice because it's a triangular type of chamber, which means that you can actually sit up in it and not have to lie down completely. And I've been using it a lot these days, given pandemics and all those kinds of things and doing my best to stay healthy along with everybody else. At least a lot of other people that are not eating junk food all the time. Speaker 2: (03:32) Yeah. And we'll get into that a little bit later that year. Um, no amount of boy hacking all out to a good dog bed diet. So we definitely need to focus on that. But, so Dr. Scott, so I have my own hyperbaric chamber. I go in and every pretty much, you know, three or four times a week at least my one goes up to 1.5 atmospheres. And, but you also have a clinic that goes, uh, has, um, hyperbaric chambers that go, uh, too high up precious. Can you explain a little bit difference between the mild hyperbaric and the medical grade, if you like hyperbaric sort of things? Speaker 3: (04:09) Yeah, sure. So hyperbaric therapy in the United States is approved for 14 different conditions and all of those conditions have been studied at two atmospheres or greater. And so all the medical conditions for hyperbaric therapy cannot be treated in mild hyperbaric units. They can only be treated in, in units that are more medical grade. The medical grade chambers go down. Uh, there's different types of medical grade chambers. The most common, it's called a motto place or a single unit occupancy chamber. That chamber goes down to somewhere between 2.4 to three atmospheres of pressure. Three atmospheres of pressure is the equivalent of 66 feet of seawater. What's interesting about 66 feet of sea water equivalent is that when they, that's actually where they've done studies showing that at that level you no longer need red blood cells in circulation to get enough oxygen diffused into the plasma where the liquid of your blood at that level and maintain your physiologic functions. Speaker 3: (05:10) So it's a, it's a significant amount of oxygen that we can get into circulation. And so, um, what we're doing in a chamber is obviously driving more oxygen into circulation. And that's kind of like the quick and dirty of what's happening. When you go in there. The heart chambers are typically going down to deeper pressures, um, two atmospheres or above. Mmm. And then the soft chambers, um, depending on the type of chamber you have, it could go down to 1.3. Some of them go to 1.5. It depends on the country and the location. Well, I think what's more important for people is not that type of chamber really. But because some soft chambers can actually go to very deep pressures and heart chamber go to any pressure, they can go to superficial chamber pressures and they can go to deep pressure. What's most important, I think is knowing is treated or what the difference in treatments is depending on the pressure. Speaker 3: (06:03) Mmm. We think of neurologic pressure. So brain and spinal cord related pressures being somewhere between 1.3 and 2.0 and we think of things outside the central nervous system, soft tissue, um, and sort of overall hello. Outside of the central nervous system. A 2.0 and greater in general. No. From a like detoxification, lymphatic perspective, you can get benefits at both at 1.3 to 2.0 along with a 2.0 or greater. And from a STEM cell release perspective, the further down you go, the deeper you go, the more STEM cells that are released. So the indications fall into those two basic categories of neurologic versus non neurologic conditions. Although you can modulate the salt chambers to help you with some non neurologic conditions as well. You are getting more oxygen in circulation, right? So you are getting the ability to enhance your flow of oxygen to tissues regardless of the chamber and regardless of the pressure actually, although some pressure is needed. Mmm. And then you are helping with detoxification as well, no matter what pressures you're using, Speaker 2: (07:19) but it's more optimal at the, at the higher pressures. So, Speaker 3: (07:23) okay. Speaker 2: (07:24) So for neuro separate brain injury, like um, you know, not my story with my mum, um, 1.5 was what, you know, we were recommended is an ideal, uh, pressure for, for brain injury. So, so you're saying the neurological, the problems that people have actually better at the lower or the a then this oppression. So I should say, and for things like, um, Mmm diabetic wounds or um, healing injuries, uh, boons, that type of thing at a higher pressure would be more beneficial, but, or hyperbaric will help with detoxification. And was the limps and speeding up the healing hearing properties, the STEM cell release, is that higher when it's deeper, uh, pressure or high pressure? Speaker 3: (08:11) Yes. Yeah. The deeper you go, the more STEM cells are released because it's related to how much oxygen is being infused. The more oxygen infused, the more STEM cells get released. It's a, it's kind of a, it's kind of, it's a direct relationship. Speaker 2: (08:27) So do you know the, um, so I remember from the last podcast you're saying, you know, up to 12 times the amount of oxygen can be taken up into the body. Um, it is sad. So it says three atmospheres, there'll be 12 times in it at one and a half atmospheres. That would be, I don't know, somewhere in that for some six, seven times the amount of Mmm. Uh, oxygen that's diffusing. Now, the difference with a hyperbaric is actually, you know, like people will say, well, you know, I put an SPO two of my little thing on my finger and it says I'm 98%. I'm saturated with oxygen, right? How do I get more oxygen in? So what is the different mechanism between normal barracks, uh, pressure and hyperbaric pressure? Speaker 3: (09:16) Yeah, it's a question I get a lot, Lisa, and I'm sure you get it a lot too. So a pulse oximeter, it's something you put it on your finger and that measures the arterial oxygen saturation of your red blood cells. So you, red blood cells are what typically carry oxygen from your lungs. When you take a deep breath [inaudible] after going out of your lungs, as they go through the rest of your body and they to release oxygen so that you can make energy without oxygen, you cannot make ATP, which is the energy, energy currency of, of our body. And so you're right, our red blood cell carrying capacity for oxygen at sea level, he's actually quite good. That's when you put a pulsox machine on your finger. You get 97 to a hundred percent if you have normal lungs. So hyperbaric therapy is going to saturate any more sites on the red blood cells where they can carry oxygen. Speaker 3: (10:08) If there is like 97% sites, I already occupied those extra 3% will be occupied. But what's actually happening and the power of hyperbaric oxygen therapy in its ability to change this gaseous form of oxygen into a liquid form that actually diffuses directly into the plasma or the liquid of our blood and the liquid of our blood has very little oxygen in it at sea level. And we can diffuse up to 12 times or actually even more than that, a deeper pressures than three ATA, oxygen in circulation. And it's that extra oxygen you cannot get without having also been under pressure at the same time as getting more oxygen as well. Speaker 2: (10:49) So then this is really powerful when it comes to say injuries where uh, there's been a blockage to the blood supply to a certain area so that whether that's from a heart attack or a stroke or you know, Mmm. Or even as I presume with crush injuries and certain things like this we are not able to get, Lisa was a blocked in some way that you can actually perfuse the area around the injury with oxygen despite it not going through the blood vessels. Is that, is there a correct way of explaining it or Speaker 3: (11:25) know? The way I like to think about it is that you have all this oxygen that's now in circulation and it's kind of like oxygen, just like osmosis. We'll go to the area where there's less of it, so the more oxygen you have in a blood vessel, the more of that oxygen is going to get into the tissue around the blood vessel so you don't have to have as much vascular density potentially to get oxygen to that tissue because we've found a few, so much oxygen inside of that tissue bed itself that it could potentially factor as a way of saving tissue in the acute setting. So like you said, like the acute ischemia is the acute hypoxia is or low oxygen safe that happened with a heart attack. Well you have a lack of a blood flow in a coronary artery or a stroke. Speaker 3: (12:09) We have lack of blood flow, an artery in the brain or a spinal cord injury. When you have arteries that are actually broken you can actually get more oxygen to that tissue because you can diffuse more into the tissue bed around the injured blood vessel. It was also good is that when you have an acute injury there's also going to be a lot of swelling and actually injury too. The vessels that are going to cause leakage of that fluid and swelling. And actually in the chamber you actually constrict down blood vessels a little bit and that constriction actually helps you and prevents some of that fluid from releasing. And for some of that swelling to happen, even though you have this constriction of the blood vessel, you've also net had a significant delivery of oxygen to that tissue regardless because we've had all of that oxygen diffuse into the plasma. So Mmm, oxygen carrying capacity in normal settings without pressure is only dependent on how many red blood cells you have. But in a chamber we're pressurizing your body, pressurizing your breath or your whole body really. But when you take a deep breath, that pressurized oxygen is driven into the plasma or your liquid of the blood and that liquid of your, of your blood, it can go much further and diffuse much further into tissues outside of blood vessels as well. Speaker 2: (13:26) So for an example was, um, you know, my mom's story with the aneurysm. If I had managed, and of course at this stage I didn't know anything about Harbor about when this first happened, but if I'd been able to get her into a chamber immediately after the event occurred, uh, the cause the inflammation obviously with a broad love and Brian tissue mixing causes inflammation in the skull. Yeah. Um, that would have been hugely beneficial if I've managed to get her in a few times immediately after the event. So after she was stable, yes. Obviously, yeah, Speaker 3: (14:03) being stable. So I have some people, I just like to be very clear, you should go to a hospital. Did you have a stroke or you will have a heart attack and don't go to your local hyperbaric provider once you're stabilized. Yes. Um, there are some indications that the sooner that you can get treated in a chamber, the more oxygen you can get to your brain to a certain degree. I mean, not huge amounts. You don't want to go down to three atmospheres because that could be dangerous for your brain, but oxygen to your brain, oxygen to your heart after an acute event is going to save tissue in your brain and save tissue in your heart. [inaudible] they've even done studies looking at people that are getting bypass procedures, coronary bypass procedures. And if they're doing this, they get into a hyperbaric chamber right before, um, they save tissue in their heart so they, they have more harder to function, have better neurologic function after a coronary artery bypass grafting procedure. Speaker 2: (14:56) Wow. So, so Dr. Scott, like why is there any place in the world where this is offered in the ICU? You know, in the acute setting where people are coming in with major injuries or strokes or heart attacks or this type of thing where it's actually used as a part of the syrupy and if not, why not? Why is it not everywhere? Speaker 3: (15:17) Well to do acute care, hyperbaric therapy, it takes very specialized capability because if you're going to be in there with attendance or you have IVs going and you have others drugs you need to give, it's, it's definitely a specialized service. Um, in Japan, China and Russia, it's used much more in the acute setting than it is in the United States. The U S it has, and it still is used for acute trauma. So if you have like a traumatic ischemia, like we have a traumatic injury to one of your soft tissue areas, for example, it can be used. Um, but in general, um, it's not used as often in the trauma setting in the, in the U S as it is in other countries, especially China, Russia and Japan. Speaker 2: (16:05) Right. Okay. And it's not, it's not used here either and it's not even approved. Is it on the, in America, is it an approved treatment for, um, neurological events? Speaker 3: (16:18) There's no neurologic indication that's covered right now in the United States. Wow. Yeah. Speaker 2: (16:23) Even though it is right, Speaker 3: (16:24) I'm going to change that. And I mean the one that has the had the most, I think research behind it in the most interest is traumatic brain injury and concussion. There is definitely some good studies from across the world. M a U S showing how hyperbaric therapy can help people recover from concussion and traumatic brain injuries, which is another name for concussion really either in the short term and like from an acute concussion or even from hello term symptoms that may not go away. Speaker 2: (16:53) Yeah, absolutely. So we were talking about like there's different things here that are going on. You've got, it's detecting the inflammation is producing more STEM cells. It's a, it's Oh, sorry. Knocking off senescent cells isn't it? Which are your old cells that are not doing much of anything. Speaker 3: (17:15) Yeah, they're called the zombie cells. Right. So, um, can we, I like to think about hyperbaric therapy is, is relatively simply, there's four things that we do in the chamber. The first thing we do is we reverse hypoxia. We've been already talking about that. We reverse low oxygen States by getting more oxygen into circulation and over the longterm a protocol of hyperbaric therapy, create new blood vessels in those areas that have been injured. We're going to play games and then maintain the ability to get blood flow to that tissue over the long term. That's the first thing, reversing hypoxia. The second thing is decreasing inflammation. It does that immediately by constructing down the blood vessels like we talked about, but also over the longterm. It has the ability to shift our epigenetics, change how our body, our DNA expresses certain proteins that are responsible for inflammation. Speaker 3: (18:07) Things like TNF alpha, I'll one L six I'll eight and others. The third thing it does is releases a massive number of STEM cells. Those STEM cells all released throughout the body and they hone or they go to areas where there is more inflammation or there's more need for STEM cells to go to those areas and regenerate them. The next thing that happens is that there is, especially in higher oxygen environments, we have the ability to kill bugs, kill bacteria, fungus, and potentially even viruses. A deeper pressures in the chamber. So senescence cell populations look like they do get decreased or they do go down. We're not exactly sure how that's happening. We don't know if that's happening because those cells are being regenerated or if those cells are being killed off and either way is good for the body really. Because when they stick around and they're not replicating, and there we have a high association with cancer, with degenerative disease. Yeah. With aging overall. So senescent cells aren't cool in general. So we want those to go away. Uh, we don't know if that's because new STEM cells are coming and just the other ones are dying or if we're now getting more oxygen to the tissue. And so those cells are getting enough oxygen to regenerate their mitochondria and start making energy more effectively, which is where we make energy in ourselves. We're not sure. Speaker 2: (19:39) So the senescent cells are basically cells that have had past their use by date really. And they're not doing much of anything except causing trouble in the body, causing inflammation, causing changes, perhaps even, uh, in closing cancers and so on. Um, so it's really good to be getting rid of those. You mentioned the, um, I was six. Yeah. I are six from memory as one of the ones that they talking about in the Cobra, uh, scenario a that that's so interleukin six is, can you explain, um, I mean obviously we don't know whether it's good for coven Mmm. But is this potentially something that if someone has the Corona virus that they can potentially look at doing to stop the cytokine storm that's actually killing the people? Speaker 3: (20:30) Well, we're actually looking into it now. I have several colleagues around the United States that are starting with clinical studies to look at how hyperbaric therapy I can work on two fronts. It can work as a way to get more oxygen to the system as we've been describing it, because one of the things that's happening in covert is that they're getting very, very hypoxic. They're getting very low oxygen levels and we think this has something to do with destruction of the red blood cells or the inability of red blood cells to carry oxygen as effectively. So again, we can bypass that by being in a chamber like I am right now and pressurizing around you. And then as a result of that pressurization, I'm getting more oxygen in circulation regardless of how many red blood cells I have working or not, how many hemoglobin molecules I have working or not. Speaker 3: (21:16) So that's one area that we're looking at is how hyperbaric therapy can work. The other area that we're looking at is as, as as an anti-inflammatory. So it does have the ability to downregulate those inflammatory cytokines, one of them being IO six. So maybe helping with that cytokine storm at the same time. We also know for other studies over the years that hyperbaric therapy is and immuno modulator, it helps the immune system function better. Um, so we think in the early part of the process, maybe if coven 19 we don't know yet for sure, but it may help to support the immune system and allow it to sort of weather the storm better as opposed to not weathering it as well. So it's a lot of conjecture right now, Lisa, you know, we don't know for sure how it works or if it's going to work, but there are definitely some of my colleagues around the U S and around the world that are looking at how hyperbaric therapy might be a helpful adjunct to conventional care. Speaker 3: (22:16) Maybe prevent people from getting intubated or being on ventilators, which would be a great thing. And so they're looking at that as another having you, and they're also looking at pressurizing the hoods, the hoods that you were in a hyperbaric chamber as a way to get more oxygen into the system without being an hyperbaric chamber as well. So yeah, I've posted a little bit about this on my Instagram because I just find these really intriguing. There is actually one company that's looking to retrofit airplanes. Airplanes are usually pressurized at 8,000 feet above sea level, so they're actually hypoxic environments. There's lower oxygen on and off on an airplane. That's your breathing as opposed to being at sea level. Wow. But what they can do is that they can reverse their pressurization and actually pressurize it. Like a hyperbaric environment. No, you couldn't fly with a plane like this because it would be too heavy, but you can keep it on the ground and and make it a hyperbaric chamber. And you know those oxygen masks that come from the ceiling already, right? So they could use those oxygen masks as a way to get more oxygen into circulation. So this is just one of those sort of crazy ideas. But it's a really interesting idea where you can actually retrofit airplanes to be hyperbaric chambers. Wow. Speaker 2: (23:31) Because that's one of the reasons we get jet lag, isn't it? Because we're, we're, we're at this, um, you know, equivalent of 8,000 feet or 2,500 meters. Mmm. Right? So we're just, we were actually coming out with a bit of an altitude situation where you've actually not got enough oxygen and that's adding to the fact that you've been traveling for how many hours and sitting still and not oxygenating. Anyway, Speaker 3: (23:55) there's the circadian rhythm piece of it, but you are at low oxygen levels and you are at higher risk for jet lag and infection too, so that's why you have a higher risk for infection when you fly. Not so much because of the sanitation on the plane. Although yeah, the air itself on a plane isn't the cleanest. Yeah, and I'm hoping that one of the things that happens with this whole covert thing is that the air on planes becomes cleaner than it is now. That more is coming from the outside of the plane and be less being research related, but in in in essence the low oxygen environment is, is definitely not helping from your health perspective and like the Dreamliners. Some of the newer planes are pressurized to 6,000 feet above. See instead of the 8,000 you said it helps with jet lag and you add on circadian rhythm changes or helping urge on your circadian rhythms to be in the, the times when you're going on it's going to help significantly and that's what new plans are trying to do and that's a new health. Your hotel rooms are also trying to do as well, new hotel rooms with new lighting and things like that that are happening, which is super cool. But in essence, yes, the airplane itself is a hypo H Y P O Barrick environments. And we can make it and retrofit it to be a hyperbaric environment as well, which, so if you have any extra seven 30 sevens hanging around, let me know and we can work on it. Speaker 2: (25:14) There you go. We can got Richard put them together. That sounds really good because flying is one of a really big danger to our health and we've, we've seen the effects of covert going through airplanes, you know, all that sort of, um, um, I just wanted to, to touch on a couple of years, NGO Genesis. Can you explain what angiogenesis is and what is actually happening there in regards to Hochberg? Speaker 3: (25:42) Yeah. So angiogenesis is the creation of new blood vessels. And in a hyperbaric chamber, that acute infusion of, of oxygen, it's going to flood the body with more oxygen, but it's not going to create new blood vessels. What happens after a protocol call of hyperbaric therapy is that we have these epigenetic shifts, we have these shifts and expression of DNA and that DNA expression is shifted in a way that more blood vessels are created because of some of the various factors that are released under pressure and under a high oxygen conditions. Those are things like VEGF, which is a very common blood vascular growth factor and others. And we have these new blood vessels that form and they tend to form in areas where there is hypoxic tissue or there is low oxygen in tissue. They tend to form an areas where there have been injuries in the past. And so these new blood vessels which are created allow the sustainability of the results on the effects of hyperbaric therapy to be a longer term play. Speaker 2: (26:43) So if you have a heart problem, so you have to ha, you know, you've got a blockage in one of your, your arteries. Um, is this a possible way to get around that blockage without surgery in conjunction with surgery over the longer term enough stations here. Speaker 3: (27:01) So we're talking about collateralization of blood vessels, which which would, what I mean by that is that that's the medical term of you basically create collaterals around blockages and that's what a bypass is, right? A bypass procedure is creating ways to go around blockages. It's like, it's like going off the on ramp and taking the service road like around traffic, uh, that stopped and then going back on the service road back onto the freeway after the traffic is over kind of deal. That's a good way to describe it. What a collateral would be like a collateral road. And so hyperbaric therapy can help you create those. And we don't know about the heart specifically though because we haven't done the studies to know. But we do know from the studies that have been done that there is an increase in vascular density in the heart. There's an increase in vascular density in the brain after a protocol of therapy. And so as a result of that, you will have the ability to get more oxygen to tissue because you have more density of blood vessels. No, we haven't done the study looking at people with blocked blood vessels to see what happens under hyperbaric conditions. It just hasn't happened. But the conjecture that we have is that it would potentially help without collateralization. It goes off roads, service road kinds of ideas. Speaker 2: (28:18) Yeah. Going around, I heard, um, that DHEA is an interesting one for the main, at the uh, uh, erectile dysfunction can be helped with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, creating new new blood PA angiogenesis for that sort of a problem. Is that correct? Speaker 3: (28:35) Yeah, it's the same deal. I mean the, the physiology of hyperbaric therapy, it goes everywhere. Your, your full body is oxygenated. So decreasing inflammation, reversing hypoxia, the STEM cell release and killing bugs happens anywhere and that includes regenerating blood vessels in, in a penis or and uh, in areas around the heart or in areas that have degenerated otherwise. And so they did a study looking at erectile dysfunction in males that were relatively healthy and their erectile function improved after, I think it was 6,600 hyperbaric chamber treatments. And so that's new blood vessels that are getting created, a new blood vessel, low vascular flow and the penis. And so we have indications that happens in women as well with, with vaginal flow. But we don't have the studies to show that. Right. Often we'll get the, uh, the feedback from women and men that sex life is better in, in hyperbaric. There's people that have gotten hyperbaric therapy. Speaker 2: (29:38) That's a good reason. Speaker 3: (29:40) Yeah. Speaker 3: (29:41) Well, yeah, there are some studies on infertility already, uh, in helping with fertility because it helps getting it a deeper pressure helped, helps with the uterine lining. The uterine lining itself will, um, we'll get thicker under hyperbaric conditions we think. And then as a result of that, there's a higher chance for the embryo, the embryo to be implanted. And so if you have a thinner uterine lining, you can pick it up potentially in the chamber. So this is used already in Russia and in China as a fertility treatments actually quite commonly in the West and the U S it's not very common. Speaker 2: (30:19) No, I haven't come across the same one. You know, you the troubles with fertility for years. [inaudible] um, I'm going to get in there even more often now. That's not the reason. Speaker 3: (30:31) Just to be clear though, this is at the deeper pressures. Speaker 2: (30:34) Oh yeah. Speaker 3: (30:34) It's shown effect. So this is at like two atmospheres, 2.4. Speaker 2: (30:38) The 1.5 why won't quite cut it so that, that sort of a problem. It probably can't hurt Kenneth. Speaker 3: (30:44) I don't think it would hurt. No. I mean, but there are certain things that I don't recommend going at less pressure. Uh, and that I'm pretty emphatic about. So the things that I don't feel are likely well-treated at 1.3 are any open wounds. Any open wounds really need to be treated at deeper pressures. If you have any ongoing infections. I don't, I feel for the most part, that 1.3 atmosphere is enough. Really. I see a significant benefit unless it's an it, a bug that does not like oxygen environments. And then in that case maybe, but the deeper pressures would likely still be better. Yeah. If you have any chemical sensitivities, these chambers can sometimes make them worse because they're made out of a plastic material. And that plastic material, uh, does off gas to some degree. And I do find that some of my patients that are highly sensitive, so plastics and to chemicals, uh, will not feel good in these kinds of chambers either. Speaker 3: (31:46) If you have any of the FDA approved conditions in my country, I don't recommend using a soft chamber either. Those should be done in deep pressures. The only approved indication for these chambers, assault chambers, that's insurance coverage in the U S is acute mountain sickness. So you go up a mountain too fast, you get signs of altitude sickness, you can get into one of these chambers and you can feel better pretty quickly. And that's, you know, one of the reasons why I have some interests in, Oh, there has been interested in coven 19 specifically because they're thinking that some of the physiology is similar. Yeah. Altitude tickets, how people are, how responding to the virus. Speaker 2: (32:30) So, so, so most of those, um, so since only the only thing that, uh, Molotov America is approved for is mountain, even though there are, but, um, from, from, yep. Okay. Speaker 3: (32:45) There are studies to show that these pressures can be beneficial for brain related conditions. Yes, yes. Speaker 2: (32:52) Yep. Mmm. That's interesting. So, so oxygen oxidative stress was the next thing I wanted to touch on. So, so w when we think of oxidative stress, we think that that's a negative thing. Generally. You know, we should, we need to get rid of the oxidants in our body and we need antioxidants and we need to detox and so on. So why isn't this case oxidative stress? Not a bad thing. What is it [inaudible] is it an oxidative stress? Speaker 3: (33:19) Well, there's a lot of things in life that are good for us that are oxidative stress. One of the most common, hopefully his exercise exercise creates inflammation and oxidative stress. Body responds with the ability to produce antioxidants. And then as a result of those anti-oxidants being released, the body has a way of compensating and then growing stronger. And that's what's happening inside a hyperbaric chamber. Every single thing that's happening almost in a hyperbaric environment is because of oxidative stress. The only thing that's not as a result of oxidative stress is purely the oxygen infusion that's getting more oxygen to the cells and that's allowing more energy to be produced, but everything else, of course, that's very important, but everything else, the oxidative stress causes those epigenetic changes that are happening on the DNA. It causes is that STEM cell release, it causes that inflammatory downregulation. Speaker 3: (34:17) It causes those that vasoconstriction, that constriction of blood vessels that could be injured during an acute event, so it's oxidative stress that initially spurs the system to have a cataclysmic cataclysmic. Yup. Okay. That sounds almost like like a catastrophe. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Basically, you know, it's a huge catalyst for change. Cataclysmic and catalysts are not the same word, but I had a huge catalyst for change. But what happens is that the body, just like with exercise, has a significant ability to have a reactive antioxidant search and that antioxidant surge, it happens and equates or balances out all that oxidative stress or the oxidative stress that we gave the body initially. So it's important for me when I'm thinking about hyperbaric protocols, I think about the person in front of me, I think is this person, somebody that has the ability to have a re the reactive antioxidant surge to balance out that oxidative stress. Because if you're not healthy, if you are sick, if you're inflamed, if you have lots of chronic conditions you made, do be depleted in various things that could make it difficult for you to do this. And that's why I'm very emphatic when I can and when there's time to consider a foundational of cellular health, looking at vitamins, minerals, nutrients, antioxidant levels, looking at signs of gut dysbiosis and immune system function to understand how well somebody is going to do in the chamber before they get in. Speaker 2: (35:54) So that, that's a perfect segue because I wanted to go into, um, the whole foundational health, uh, and, and, and also adjunctive therapies too. Hyperbaric. Um, so it started with a couple of things like Mmm. You know, like taking things like vitamin C infusions before going into hyperbaric, uh, doing the keto diet or exogenous ketones in combination with hyperbaric. Mmm. And then looking as the next step and the conversation into the foundational things which really need to be addressed as well. Um, so they start with it junked of therapies that will benefit from a hyperbaric in combination. Speaker 3: (36:40) Sure. So yeah, that's a good segue I feel before getting into adjunctive, it's important I think to describe that I jumped in. Therapies can definitely synergize together, but it's really important I feel to have a good sense of your own foundational biology before you start stacking therapies on top of each other. Because synergistic tools that are both potentially oxydative, IB, vitamin C, and I can direct therapy, it can be very helpful. However, if you don't have the capacity to physiologically benefit from it or potentially have side effects as a result of the too much oxidative stress, it could be detrimental. So when I think about stacking therapies, I often try to take it a step back and say, okay, let's look at that foundation assessment first. Like your vitamins, your minerals, your nutrients, you're announcing the levels. That's the reprogram that I have that I, that I work with called health optimization medicine, which was founded by a colleague of mine named dr Ted Archer, COSO. Speaker 3: (37:43) And I work as the C Oh of our nonprofit that's educating doctors on how to do this. And I also have my own clinic concierge virtual clinic, really in the Bay area in San Francisco, working with clients across the U S across the world. So once I've done that, once I've looked at that foundational biology, then I think about therapies that can stack on top of hyperbarics or with it. One of the things that I think about is a low level light there. There'll be a low level light technologies because lights have the ability to get more oxygen to tissue by dilating the blood vessels in that area. And so if you're dilating various blood vessels in an area, you can then get more oxygen to that area. So that's one way for some specific spectrums of light to help. Um, infrared light is also really good for detoxification. Speaker 3: (38:33) So I often combine hyperbaric therapy with detox publication strategies and one of them being infrared light, I think about post electromagnetic field technologies. Wow. Those are micro circulatory pulses of electromagnetic fields that can help with circulation. And then increasing circulation is going to help you benefit in a hyperbaric chamber as well because you're getting more tissue oxygenated because there's more tissue that's dilated in blood vessels. And so we can help there. I also think about using various technologies inside of a hyperbaric chamber. If you're in a software like this one because then now you can bring in things that are portable and then you can do brain training like neurofeedback for example. And you can do other types of brain training and using computers or iPads or whatever, doing certain things to sort of work on your multitasking capabilities and, and the like. And you can do a lot of other different things. But those are some of the things that come to mind. Speaker 2: (39:31) Wow. This is what really getting into the whole, you know, optimizing in, in high performance and being able to, to stack the different biohacks if you like. And the different things on top of each other. I'm very interested in the infrared light therapy and um, have some of the products from vital light. Um, again, something that I've used in conjunction with, uh, for mums rehab. Mmm. And uh, very interested in the PME if I haven't had a chance to, to go down that route, but very keen cost prohibitive to have that at home unfortunately. Um, so there are so many amazing things in the biohacking world if you like, where we can actually, uh, sat to look with relatively low risk, um, the lights therapy. Um, it's an interesting one. Also the detrimental effects of blue light coming from our computer screens, stuff like that. Speaker 2: (40:28) Um, yeah and that's um, you know, probably a topic for another day. But what I did want to go into is as you work with dr Ted COSO who I would love to get on the show as well. He's amazing. Um, so dr Ted, uh, is from the Philippines and he has a um, uh, he has health optimization, Madison and so you are the CEO of that company. Can you tell us, well dr tin has created his own own hole. What would you call it, system of looking at so meter below mix the hollow biome. Can you explain what the heck those are? Cause I'm sure nobody listening to this podcast would have come across those terms yet. Sure, no problem. Speaker 3: (41:16) Yeah. So dr ten's an anti-aging doctor. He, uh, we specialize in antiaging medicine and then created his own practice that looks right. Two, I think take the best of conventional medicine. And then the best of what was under the radar in conventional medicine, which is called metabolomics, which is the field of study that we look at real time cellular metabolites. So the real time factors that are making ourselves work. And we can measure all of this. This is something that I didn't know when I was in medical school that you can actually do, but you can actually measure all of these various factors and understand how the body is making energy, how the body is processing your various foods into like from macronutrients all the way down to micronutrients, understanding how we can measure antioxidant levels. And so you can do all this. And so what Ted developed was a way to do this sort of like in the 80 20 framework, which is 80% of the benefit for 20% of the testing and focusing that testing on health and not focusing on any specific disease or condition and setting that aside for the moment and, and just doing, Mmm. Speaker 3: (42:25) More testing related to health and health focus. And so the program itself has seven pillars, but they all comprise what's called the hollow biomes. H, O, L, O, B, I, O, N, T. And this is the idea that we are not just an individual in a population, but we're actually up population of organisms or individuals together in ourselves, in it of ourselves. So we are made up of fungus, virus, bacteria, human. And then we're also made up of the, the metabolites or the production, the toxins and the other things that are in environment. That's all happening all on our cellular level that we can see. So the idea is to create a program for people that uses all of that data that we can measure and understanding where it's coming from and then how to optimize and balance. So the first pillar is metabolomics, which is looking at the cellular data. Speaker 3: (43:25) Another one is epigenetics or looking at how our environment and how are exposures overall change how our epigenetics are or express or how our DNA is expressed through epigenetics, looking at chronobiology or circadian rhythms and how light especially affects our circadian rhythms, looking at the gut immune system. So that's our gut microbiota and in detail how our gut is a very significant indicator of our overall health and our immune health and neurologic and psychologic health are all related to our gut, just on some level looking at evolutionary biology. So the idea is that we have trade offs in our evolution that some certain traits will help us when we're younger, but actually be a detriment to us when we're older. And also how our evolutionary biology is related to our ancestry. So where our ancestry as well also indicate where we should potentially best focus our diet and our and how we change it depending on seasons, et cetera. And there's also the bioenergetics pillar, which is related to energy production, other cellular level. And that's mostly our mitochondria as well, where we're making energy and exposomics, which is the study of toxins, the toxins in our environment. But in essence, this is what we call our whole bio. And we can use about 500 or so data, measure measures to look at measures of all of these things and then create programs for our clients using those metrics and these pillars. [inaudible] really optimize health over the longterm. That's the idea. Speaker 2: (45:09) Wow. So that's just, this is, this is unsigned and something that I'm hoping to study in that in the future. Once I get through the next lot of study, it's just seems to be one Speaker 3: (45:19) the chamber you can study. Speaker 2: (45:21) I do. I was yesterday sitting in there listening to all your lectures and preparing for today's podcast. It's a brilliant way to do it and it just seems so much to learn. Mmm. And I'm very interested in dr Tibbs work and um, you know, coming to grips with it. Um, you know, we, we, we do something in our company, you know, if the genetic testing was that dr Alberto Gralise work and we're finding that absolutely. Yeah. Fascinating. Now, adding in the functional genomics into that with document's or Mohammed's work, uh, it just gives another lens at another lens to be able to look through. And the microbiome is an, is an area anyways, you know, um, you can't have one without the other. I just wish there was more hours on a day to day to deep misinformation. Speaker 3: (46:08) It's a network, Lisa. I think that's what you're going at, right? It's a network effect. Our body doesn't work in silos. You don't just have a heart, you just don't have a brain. You don't just have a gut. They all work together. It's this beautiful symphony. Mmm. Bacteria, virus cells, humans, human cells, mitochondria, which can be classified potentially as bacteria cells as well. Probably back in the day became or came from bacteria that combined with another type of cell that didn't have oxygen capabilities. And that's our, so we have all these things working together. We have hormones working together. We have chemical factories called cytokines working together, um, from a distance. Nothing has to be right next to each other to get there. We have blood vessels, we have lymphatics, we have nerves and other different types of channels to get things. So where they need to go with neurotransmitters. Speaker 3: (47:00) And so it's very difficult to just boil it down. So just a couple of things. I think where the future is going, there's a great article that I loved. It was actually, I think published about six months ago. It was at, it was actually published at Stanford, they called it the narcissism like narcissistic, right? The idea that you'll know everything about yourself, you're no your jeans, you'll know you're genomics, your proteomics, which are the proteins get from genes, you'll know your epigenomics, you'll know you're metabolomics and you will be able to use all this data to create a personalized understanding of you, your risk factors, but also what's actually happening to you right now and getting ideas of what you need to do now so that you can optimize over the longterm. The problem with just looking at genomics is that yeah, it gives you risks of what you may have, but it doesn't tell you actually what's happening. Speaker 3: (47:56) That's what metabolomics does. And so the narcissism is the idea that you have access to all this information and access to the data that's being, I studied as a result of this information too. So anyway, I think we're all gonna have those in our pocket books at some point in the next two years. It's a fascinating to be able to have all of that and to be able to look through these different lenses and to look at the person as a whole. And I think that's where, um, you know, allopathic medicine has had its limitations and that every specialty is very siloed in, in not necessarily communicating with. Right. Hmm. It's still too siloed and the brain does a work independently of the knee and the, you know, whatever the case might be. Mmm. Is it interconnected, focused on, in the past I'm saying would that would be a fear? Speaker 3: (48:52) Well, because as human beings, we try to simplify things as much as possible. There's very good reasons for that. Um, and I'm not, I'm going to be against it, but I think it's important that you have certain people that specialized in organs and do the work that they do and be very, very good at it. But it's like not having a primary care doctor, I'm just going to see a specialist. If you're just in the conventional world, what's going to happen is that you just get opinions in the very singular lens of that particular organ system. So it doesn't look at the big picture. And then you look outside the conventional system and you have to think about this larger, this larger understanding to really get a good holistic, comprehensive plan I feel of of how to maintain your health over the longterm. Cause if you're just looking at, I want to optimize my heart function, I want optimize my, my brains function. Speaker 3: (49:48) It's like, well what about your gut? You know, what about your antioxidant levels? What about your, see, what about you're motion in your feet and how that's affecting your back. And there's all these other aspects of things that are important. So I tend to work with people that look at more of a holistic view of movement and holistic view of health with whatever capacity. And I do my best to help people across the world in not only hyperbaric therapy, but helping them understand the best ways to approach their goals from a holistic perspective. And so I do, I think you remember, I do virtual consultations, education, advocacy for hyperbaric across the world. And I love new challenges and ways to people. I mean, I often get the thing, it's the same things over and over again, but I love when new things kind of pop up and I go, Oh, that's super interesting. And then I get to harness the network that I've created across the world to really help people. And a lot of these things, things can be done remotely now, which is great, which is even even better given that most of us are stuck in our homes. No, anyway, at the moment, given the whole pandemic thing, I was talking to my hyperbaric chamber for a little while longer, which I'm not too sad about that. Speaker 2: (50:58) And, and you know, I find this just such a refreshing approach that you, you know, as a doctor, as a medical doctor, an internal doctor who's looked outside of the box you had on your website somewhere or some somewhere I read, you know, the box was broken a long ago. Um, you don't all to confine yourself to one way of thinking or one. Speaker 3: (51:18) There was never a box Speaker 2: (51:20) for me, Lisa. Speaker 3: (51:23) It was actually, I created a box after not having a box and then I broke it open again. I grew up because I'm the son of a chiropractor who didn't have a box. There was no such thing. And so aye created some sides of that box and some, you know, some stingy walls and pretty thin walls when I went to medical school. So I could learn what I needed to learn and then now use that information and work within that framework when necessary in the conventional framework, but also knowing that they're clumsy and that it's easy to get outside of those walls and we should, especially if there's time, if there's time to work unconventionally than work on unconventionally. If there isn't a time work eventually, but also do unconventional things if you can and you could do them side by side. And that's one of the things I specialize in too is understanding that most things in life are not mutually exclusive and you don't always have time to wait for one or the other. And sometimes you just kind of have to throw the bus at it in a very methodical way to help it. I know that's what you did with your mom. Speaker 2: (52:31) Yeah. By Sigma. Yeah. A multifaceted Chuck everything. It started them out at the wall and I'd hope some of it sticks. [inaudible] it has, Speaker 3: (52:41) yeah. Throw shit at the wall is like is the nice way of saying it for maybe the nonsense nice way of saying Speaker 2: (52:46) and, and Speaker 3: (52:47) you do that in a methodical way and that's the important, the thing that I try to emphasize is that there has to be a physiologic reason and they have to be done, at least if it's, yeah. If it's a recommendation for me, it's have to be done in a methodical way that you kind of understand what's happening. And w the factors that are playing and not just throwing shit at the wall without a plan of what shit is going at the wall. At what time Speaker 2: (53:10) and looking at the risk reward. Yeah. And then making sure that you're not, um, and you know, for someone like, so, you know, if my nature is, is very much a dive in and just have a crack and, um, you know, sometimes they have to pull myself back and go hang a minute. The risks too high here or yeah. Speaker 3: (53:29) Words. So Speaker 2: (53:31) yeah, it's really, it's, you know, it's one thing to do it on yourself. It's another thing with other people in being able to, Speaker 3: (53:40) yeah. What I was saying is that as a new Zealander, you're, you're known for your risk taking. So sometimes you gotta you gotta you gotta bring it back in a notch there. Speaker 2: (53:48) Exactly. Yup. Too much adrenaline. You can say it in my epigenetics, my ring finger is longer than my index finger. I've got too much to drink. Nice. Um, but you know, like doctor dr Cher, you know, we'll wrap up in a second, but I just wanted to thank you so much because the advocacy that you're doing, the work, the connections that you're boating, the network, you really are the worlds having age of, of, of Oh this new, whatever the says that sets happening with us as personalized health, uh, this new paradigm shifts. And um, I'm excited to get your message out there. So if any of the lessons sitting out there, we'd like to talk to Dr. Scott because obviously he's a super expert in everything from a hyperbaric right through to metabolomics and the holiday BYOD. Um, if you would like a bitch or a consultation with doctors, dr shear, where can they go doctor? Speaker 3: (54:43) So for my consultation work, my education and advocate, you can see work, I do it all through my, my website. It's integrative HBO t.com Speaker 2: (54:52) integrated kioti.com. Speaker 3: (54:54) Yeah. And then if you could also disconnect with me on Instagram to add Dr. Scott [inaudible], S C O T T S H E R R. And I also, we can set some things up through that as well if people have interest. I've been looking to post more and get more out there for people. And I know I've been doing podcasts for awhile but I feel like smaller little bits of information are helpful too given the attention deficits of our current state of affairs. So I have this like funny airplane pillow around my neck there. That's better. Okay. Um, so it was nice when I was in the other position. Um, but so those are the two major places that I do my education, advocacy and consultation. I also have a new Facebook group actually just set up called optimize H optimize HBO T with Dr. Scott Cher. Speaker 3: (55:43) And this is a really fun one. I'm looking to have a location where we all can kind of get along in the hyperbaric community. They have like the heart chamber advocates and the salt chamber advocates and you have to be able to know a lot about having barrier therapy in that, you know, very little. And my hope is to create a platform where we can kind of all come together and I'm going to be creating content and curating content with a team of people to hopefully bring, I think I hope the community together a little bit more and bring more information out there. So that's a new, that's a new one that I've just come out with. Speaker 2: (56:16) I'm definitely count me in, count me in. I'm definitely an advocate for all of us. And um, want to share, you know, um, I've just sent you actually a copy of my book. I don't know if it'll get through when the covert situation, but I really want the story to get out. Speaker 3: (56:32) Yeah. For sure. Speaker 2: (56:33) Yeah, Speaker 3: (56:34) we'll hear that story. Speaker 2: (56:35) Yeah. And that's like 250 and counting hyperbaric sessions so far. Speaker 3: (56:41) That's amazing what you and your mom has done. It's really beautiful. Speaker 2: (56:44) That is really beautiful. So Dr. Scott, thank you so much. I'll put all those links for everybody in the show notes today. I really appreciate your time. Um, it's very, very precious to me and I really, really grateful for you doing all this work. So thank you very much. Okay, Speaker 3: (57:00) and you, Lisa. Thanks for all your hard work and your advocacy and it's been my pleasure to be on your podcast, my first one in the hyperbaric chamber. Speaker 1: (57:09) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com. The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

• Cellular Health
• Energy & Focus
• Bone Density
• Skin Elasticity
• DNA Repair
• Cardiovascular Health
• Brain Health
• Metabolic Health

My 'Fierce' Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

• Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
• How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland
• Learn Jane's four pillars to help you recover from cancer with the How to Starve Cancer Online Course
• Episode 227: Fighting Cancer and Other Diseases Using the Ketogenic Diet with Dr Dominic D'Agostino
• Boulder Longevity Institute
• PubMed
• Australian Integrative Medicine Association
• Learn from Dr Elizabeth Yurth on the function of our mitochondria:
• • Episode 196: Rethinking the Function of Mitochondria for Our Health
  • Episode 187: Back to Basics: Slow Down Ageing and Promote Longevity
• Connect with Jane: Website I Twitter I LinkedIn I Email ([email protected])

Episode Highlights [04:40] Why Jane Wrote 'How to Starve Cancer'

• Jane shares that she was first diagnosed with cancer when she was 30. Her cancer developed to an advanced stage over a prolonged screening.
• Her mother had stage-IV breast cancer and passed away a few years later.
• As her cancer developed further, Jane felt that the medical industry wasn't helping her enough.
• There was already research on how glucose serves as a fuel for cancer. However, Jane found out that cancer can also metabolise glutamine and protein — even lipids.
• Jane wrote her book to help people starve cancer without starving themselves. Starving cancer is about being blocking the different chemical pathways that cancer uses.

[13:10] How Cancer Develops

• In 1924, Warburg found that cancer cells use sugar up to 20 times more than normal cells; this an indication that cancer is a metabolic disease.
• Jane argues that cancer is linked to the microenvironment and often develops when a patient has inflammation.
• Inflammation can develop due to obesity, exposure to carcinogens, and more.
• Hormonal influences can also promote cancer growth. These influences include exposure to xenoestrogen, plastics, microwaves, and microplastics.
• These influences can change mRNA to trigger changes in the mitochondrial DNA, leading to cancer development.

[19:25] How to Detect Early Cancer

• You can prevent cancer as long as you understand what's causing it.
• Dysfunctional mitochondria are a symptom and not the cause.
• It's critical to look at changes in the mRNA to detect early cancer.

[20:47] Learn to be Careful about what You Take

• There isn't a lot of data regarding mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines and their long-term effects on the human immune system.
• We need to be careful about what we're putting in our bodies and their potential consequences.
• For example, high doses of Vitamin E and NAC may be inappropriate for specific cancers.
• Jane shares that small doses of NAC can be beneficial when you're trying to kill cancer and improve immunity post-chemotherapy.
• Stopping glutamine transport is also helpful to block fuel transport to cancer cells.

[25:45] There's no One Solution for Cancer

• Cancers work differently and can have different fuel sources. No single approach will beat all cancer types.
• For example, B cell lymphoma is responsive to ferroptosis. However, you need to ensure that this method kills only the cancer cells and does not affect the brain.
• HDAC inhibitors are also viable cancer treatments.

[30:31] How Homocysteine can Help or Worsen Your Condition

• Jane recommends having low to normal homocysteine levels by sometimes taking vitamin B. Cysteine can help provide backup replenishment for cells.
• When you're trying to induce ferroptosis and have high homocysteine, the cancer cells may utilise the homocysteine instead.
• This is why your homocysteine levels should be low before starting ferroptosis for cancer treatment.

[32:08] There are Better Cancer Treatments

• Most medical practitioners are often not updated with the latest clinical studies and tend to dismiss them.
• For example, high doses of Vitamin C can be used as a pharmaceutical, and not an antioxidant.
• There are ways to treat terminal illnesses even when medical professionals tell you otherwise.

[43:50] Don't Focus on Only One Phase of Cancer

• Jane's book is a simplified discussion of cancer metabolism and how cancer develops.
• Current cancer treatments often don't focus on earlier phases of cancer development.
• You need to tackle every phase of cancer and stop the tumour environment that helps cancer grow. Diet can make a huge difference.
• Ketones and hydroxybutyrate are also HDAC inhibitors and can help with ferroptosis.
• Hyperbaric oxygen therapy can also help since cancer cells can't thrive with high oxygen levels.

[49:18] Cancer Treatment is Different Per Phase

• Lisa shares that her mother is currently following the Riordan Protocol. They use a blend of Vitamin C, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and ketones.
• Fenugreek can help stimulate the production of free radicals, but you need to avoid antioxidants like luteolin and green tea.
• You need to ensure you're getting the desired effect in the right phase. The kill phase tends to be more specific.
• In the full episode, Jane discusses how berberine and metformin can help lower cancer markers.

[54:29] Jane's Recommendations

• Jane recommends being careful with taking DCA since some brands can cause inflammation.
• Deoxy glucose is like fake glucose that the body recognises as glucose, but cancer cells don't.
• Melatonin can block glycolysis pathways.
• Jane recommends being selective when taking her course. You don't need to learn about every single pathway. She recommends focusing on glycolysis, glutamine, fats, and lipids.
• Jane shares what she did to block her cancer pathways in the full episode.

[1:01:55] Remember, It's about the Metabolic Pathway

• Over the years, starving cancer has become the critical key to curing cancer.
• Remember that cancer is about the metabolic pathway. You need to have the right combination of supplements and cancer treatments.

7 Powerful Quotes

[01:51] "...if you're at all affected by cancer in your family, if you have high-risk factors, one in six of us is going to get cancer at some stage in our lives, and you need to know this stuff."

[09:11] "...the trick was trying to find ways that would actually starve the cancer without having to go on starving yourself."

[16:44] "I think a lot of people stop the estrogen, and I think it's a good idea, in many cases, to reduce or your estrogen exposure. That can be plastics, it can be cooking in the microwave, just all sorts of, you know. Now, it's just about everywhere. We've got tiny bits of microplastic in the air as well now. It's just pervasive."

[18:29] "There are these viruses that can cause cancer, and I think it's a combination of the influence of kind of like these things acting a bit like a parasite."

[23:38] "People should have the choice of doing that [going unvaccinated] if they want to run that risk. But the problem is it's putting other people at risk, and you get slated."

[27:03] "You have to tailor your approach a little bit. Is it feeding more on glutamine? Is it feeding more —? What are the mutations?"

[35:50] "...you have to fight for your rights. You really do. When it comes to this, they don't have the answer for cancer."

[53:10] "But it's all about getting the correct effect..you've got to be a little bit careful that what you're doing with one thing doesn't counteract something else. "

About Jane

Jane McLelland trained as a Chartered Physiotherapist and was able to win the Sarah Leeson Memorial Award as a promising student. She then worked in the NHS and private practice for 12 years, specialising in orthopaedics and neurology. From 1994 to 2004, Jane battled two aggressive terminal cancers. For that reason, she put together a cancer-starving formula using natural therapies, exercise, and diet to save herself.

After her recovery, Jane advocated for off label drugs for cancer therapy and wrote the book How to Starve Cancer. In 2019, she won the title of "Amazing Women Global" from the Lifetime Achievement Award.

Interested in Jane's work? Check out her website.

You can also connect with her on Twitter, LinkedIn, and email ([email protected]).

In today's modern world, we have seen numerous advances and progresses in the medical sciences each day. There is an even high demand for non-invasive procedures to maintain physical and mental health. In this episode, we are joined by Dr. Lew Lim as he talks about photobiomodulation (PBM). He shares his journey in studying and inventing this therapeutic procedure for over 30 years.

According to Dr. Lim, when talking about photobiomodulation, they mean the use of red and near-infrared light. This kind of light is used in low-level laser therapy. He explains how this light is absorbed by the mitochondria in your cells during the procedure. Then, it relieves pain or stimulates and enhances cell function.

Want to know the benefits of photobiomodulation in your body, specifically, your brain? Then, this episode is created for you. You will gain an insight into the biochemical processes behind this procedure. And how it shows promising results in medicine, especially, in treating certain diseases.

Here are three things you'll learn from this episode:

1. Discover how Dr. Lew Lim's journey in studying photobiomodulation and how it can stimulate the brain to promote healing
2. Learn the important role of the mitochondria in photobiomodulation
3. Find out more about the benefits of photobiomodulation in our health and well-being

About Dr Lew Dr Lew Lim, PhD, MD, MBA has been studying photobiomodulation (PBM) and low-level light therapy for over 30 years. In the mid 1990's he invented intranasal photobiomodulation as a non-invasive method of introducing therapeutic photonic energy into the human body. He is the founder of vielight.com which brings intranasal and transcranial devices using photobiomodulation to the consumer.

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this podcast go to www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

For more information on photobiomodulation and this area of medicine visit https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5215795/

We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

**If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes**

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

How well do you think you're managing your stress? If you work in a fast-paced environment, this can be difficult. We tend to power through our tasks and stress, but this can lead to burnout in the long run. Burnout can then result in anxiety and depression that can make it even harder to deal with stress. Stop the cycle by going back to the basics and learn to manage your sleep and support your body with ketones!

In this episode, Damian Porter shares how he has adapted to his busy and high-pressure lifestyle as a firefighter and former Special Forces operator. Even though his training made him relentless, he has also learned the value of working smarter rather than harder. When trying to manage stress, make sure that you're getting good quality sleep. Ketones can also help manage stress and can reduce anxiety by as much as 40%!

If you want to learn more about managing stress in a fast-paced or high-pressure lifestyle, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

1. Discover how Damian can keep up with fast-paced and stressful situations as a former Special Forces operator and firefighter.
2. Understand that you can manage your stress if you support your body properly. Sleep is the first step.
3. Learn how ketones, specifically exogenous ketones, can help you lower stress, manage weight loss and more!

Resources

• Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
• Episode 220: Handling Pressured Situations and Making Career Transitions with Conrad Smith
• Episode 211: How Sleep Affects Our Lives and Why It's Vital with Dr Kirk Parsley
• Episode 206: How to Achieve Metabolic Health with Prof Grant Schofield
• Start tracking your sleep with Whoop.
• Everything Harder Than Everyone Else by Jenny Valentish
• Real Ketone's study on Ketones for Weight Loss and Body Composition
• Real Ketone's study on How D-BHB Ketones Lowers Normal Stress and Anxiety
• Learn more about Real Ketones: Website | Youtube | Instagram | Pinterest | TikTok
• Connect with Damian: Website | Facebook | Instagram | Email

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up

For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at [email protected], we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at [email protected].

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa's Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

• NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
• NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
• 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
• 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

• Cellular Health
• Energy & Focus
• Bone Density
• Skin Elasticity
• DNA Repair
• Cardiovascular Health
• Brain Health
• Metabolic Health

My 'Fierce' Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:04] Damian's Experiences before Joining the Special Forces

• Damian shares he used to bodybuild when he was around 19 years old, and he was a Pan Pacific champion.
• Then, he joined the army in New Zealand. In 2000, he was sent to East Timor for a mission.
• His experience in the military taught him to be less selfish. It made him see how people grow up and learn the realities of developing countries.
• Damian recounts his time in East Timor in the full episode.

[09:17] How to Cope with Trauma

• Seeing terrible situations during his mission taught Damian to compartmentalise.
• Talking to others can help you avoid bottling up feelings. You can start with one friend or your partner first, then your teammates.
• Sleep is also important. It's where we can disconnect our emotions from traumatic events.
• Get the basics right. Have good food, exercise, sleep and connect with others.

[12:34] How Damian Joined the Special Forces

• After his time in East Timor, Damian left the military and went into exercise rehabilitation.
• After one and a half years, he went back to the military. By 2005, he helped form a counterterrorism team as a standalone squadron.
• Selection for Special Forces is different since the job is different. Damian observes that one criterion is people's response and management of physical and mental pain.

[17:05] The Mindset to Help You Keep Going

• Damian shares that the Special Forces' tenets are hard-wired into them and help them keep doing their work.
• The first tenet is the unrelenting pursuit of excellence. Always be better than your best.
• Next, have the discipline to learn and teach.

[18:45] Keep Learning and Evolving

• He shares that the Special Forces constantly evolves and now supports people to rest and not go hard all the time. In fact, a regiment in Australia has sleeping pods in their camp.
• He also shares that his team is able to relax before missions. Be able to switch on and off before difficult and serious situations.
• Damian recommends working and training smarter, not harder. This includes exercise selection and performance.
• Keep up with the times and stay humble. Be willing to learn from others, even when they're younger than you.

[23:21] How to Cope with Changes and Transitions

• In professional sports, athletes face the problem of transitioning out of their careers.
• These athletes tend to be stuck in a bubble that can burst if they get injured and can't play anymore.
• Damian shares that this can be similar to those from the military. Once they come back, they often feel like fish out of the water.
• Therefore, having a team of people to support you through changes is important.

[29:12] How to Manage Your Thoughts and Actions

• Remember that people react to situations differently. For example, if you're prone to be addicted to dopamine, you may find it harder to be satisfied.
• Understand your genes better so you won't beat yourself up for things that don't suit you in the first place.
• Remember that your biology will create your thoughts. If your body lacks certain chemicals, you will naturally want to fill the void.
• If you want to change your thinking, start with self-awareness and reflection.

[34:01] How Damian Started Ketones

• Damian is now with the fire brigade in Australia and coaches clients on sleep and nutrition.
• Six years after he left the Special Forces, Damian shares he was depressed and anxious. This led him to learn about ketones in 2015.

[35:42] How Ketones Can Help Us

• Ketones are a fuel source. In the keto diet, people are aiming to get into a state of ketosis to use ketones to fuel the brain.
• It can also help cancer patients, sports performance, depression and mood stabilisation.
• A 2019 study shows that ketones can reduce anxiety by 40%.
• When you're on a keto diet or in a fasting state, the ketones can change glutamate into GABA. Glutamate is a chemical that can make us excited or anxious.
• Ketones can also inhibit seizures.

[39:51] Damian Shares Real Ketones

• Real Ketones carry two products. One is a human identical ketone, which is DBHB. The other is an LDBHB mix, which is more effective for anxiety, weight loss, and brain performance.
• It's found that the latter mix has a 59.9% drop in anxiety, 159% more fat loss and 10% greater brain processing speed.

[42:18] Why Exogenous Ketones?

• Regardless of your diet, exogenous ketones can significantly raise your ketone levels.
• Remember, ketone drinks were invented for the Navy Seals because it's more convenient than depending on a keto diet.
• Exogenous ketones can also help fat-adapted athletes lose weight and those who are prone to inflammation.

[52:09] The Importance of Sleep

• Sleep can help you manage stress better. This is the first thing you need to work on. After that, you can layer on better food, ketones, exercise and other strategies.
• Poor sleep for one year can easily lead to being 7 kilos overweight. It can also increase neurodegeneration, diabetes risk, cancer risk and more.
• Due to his schedule as a firefighter, Damian shares how he would do Tabata exercises to stay awake. This is 4 minutes of exercise with cycles of 20 seconds of exercise and 10 seconds of rest.
• He would also get light exposure and drink caffeine in the morning, as well as take theanine and ketones.
• To make up for his lack of sleep, Damian would take magnesium, theanine, tryptophan and GABA.

7 Powerful Quotes

'Sleep is where we disconnect emotions from traumatic events. As if you've been up all night, not able to sleep, of course, you're gonna feel the same the next day.

'Getting good food, getting good sleep, bit of exercise, and having connection with somebody in some way is going to help you out.'

'You're just trying to do your best and then be better than that. Yeah, not just trying to hit a standard—trying to be better than that.'

'Driven people, they can achieve anything. And then they're asking themselves to do it by themselves. And that's where they fall over.'

'Connection is the cure...Build a team before you go. And the team just could be your wife. That's your team. At no point in the military and no point in the org base did you ever do anything by yourself.'

'I'm being self aware, being able to self reflect, and then apply something and if I can't do it, I'll ask someone that can help me identify it or help me throw it off, or get their advice, and then analyze that and then apply it to myself.'

'Your three year old: would you would you let them get by six hours sleep? If you possibly think on that, you think that's insane? Don't do it to yourself because we are the same as the three year old.'

About Damian

Damian Porter has over 28 years of experience in the health and wellness industry. He is a career firefighter, champion national bodybuilder, exercise rehabilitation physiologist, former Special Forces Operator and a police officer with years of experience in both military and civilian applications.

Through his wide range of experiences, Damian is able to help clients achieve their optimal body, health, and performance-based on practical and educated perspectives.

Interested in Damian's work? Check out his website.

You can also reach out to him on Facebook, Instagram, and email ([email protected]).

Enjoyed This Podcast?

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can include more amino acids in protein in their diet.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Becoming a championship medalist — or an Olympic medalist — is an ambitious goal that many athletes dream of. But are we training the right way? In reality, training to be an Olympic runner is more than just stretching your physical limits; it's also about your recovery, mental strength, environment and so much more.

In this episode, famed Olympic runner Rod Dixon joins us to talk about his journey in becoming an Olympic medalist and his victory at the NYC marathon. He shares why creating a strong foundation is crucial, no matter what you're training for.

If you want to learn from and be inspired by one of New Zealand's greatest runners, then this episode is for you!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up

For our epigenetics health programme all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, your goals and your lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at [email protected], we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us at [email protected].

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa's Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, a NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that is capable of boosting the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements that are of highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

• NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
• NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
• 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
• 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combat the effects of aging, while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

• Cellular Health
• Energy & Focus
• Bone Density
• Skin Elasticity
• DNA Repair
• Cardiovascular Health
• Brain Health
• Metabolic Health

My 'Fierce' Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

1. Discover the necessary foundation an Olympic runner used to create a solid training base.
2. Learn to believe in yourself and avoid being influenced by others.
3. Understand how to build a strong mentality to handle self-doubt and hesitation.

Resources

• Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limit Podcast by becoming a patron! You can choose between being an official or VIP patron for NZD 7 and NZD 15 per month, respectively. Check out the different benefits of each in the link.
• Rod's KiDSMARATHON is a running and nutrition educational programme organised to help children in the United States and the world! Check out his website.
• Connect with Rob: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights

[05:01] How Rod Grew Up with Running

• Rod shares that his brother John was a significant part of his running career. John helped coach Rod while Rod was young.
• He fondly remembers his time growing up and always running from place to place.
• His father used to explore and travel around Australia by bike, while his mother played basketball and did gymnastics.

[11:42] Early Years of Training

• Learn by doing. You can run the same race twice, but don't expect a different result when you do everything the same. Run differently.
• Rod grew up loving cross country racing, especially the beach races through dunes.
• It was during this time that he was inspired to reach for the 1968 Olympics. His brother, John, immediately put him on a training regimen.
• Once you have a goal, you need to know how to reach it and what you're prepared to do for it.
• Multiple amazing runners inspired Rod to keep going for his goal. Tune in to find out who!

[19:13] Approach to the Foundations

• Get the timing right first, not the miles. The foundation is to start with running long and slow.
• Rod's brother, John, also helped keep a logbook of his training. This enabled them to narrow down what to improve and work on.
• Athletes don't get better from training; improvement comes from rest and recovery.
• Learn to prioritise your health. This will bring more results than just pushing yourself too hard on your training all the time.
• Know that there's a period for different types of training. There will be times when you'll need to set your foundations and conditioning right first.

[25:20] Rod's Journey Towards Becoming an Olympic Runner

• Getting acclimated to an area is essential to planning an Olympic runner's training regimen.
• With the help of John, Rod realised he was a strength runner. This knowledge became crucial in planning for his races.
• When you train with runners, it will be a race. Train with marathon runners, and it will be a long and slow run. Choose your training partners based on your needs.
• Rod's training with runners helped him learn more than just racing. His nutrition improved, too.
• Listen to the full episode for Rod's exciting account of his Olympic journey—from qualifications to his training!

[36:47] Handling Self-Doubt

• Rod shares that he also had bouts of self-doubt. During these times, he would look for his brother John, his mother and his grandmother.
• Ground yourself and just run, not for training but to clear your head and be in the moment.
• In a lot of things, confidence matters more than ability. The more confident you are, the more it will bring out your ability.
• Don't be influenced by bad habits.
• What matters is finishing the race. Finishing in itself is already a win.

[42:02] Life as a Professional Athlete

• Training effectively resulted in Rod becoming an Olympic runner, medalist and breaking records.
• Rod shares that he works full-time in addition to taking on small jobs to balance the costs.
• Tune in to the episode to hear the ups and downs of being an Olympic runner and a professional athlete.

[50:07] Transition from Short to Long Races

• After his experiences as an Olympic runner, Rod wanted to focus on cross country and longer races.
• Once you have your foundations, you will need to adjust your training for long races. It's not going to be much different from what you're already doing.
• Rod shares that he had to work towards the NYC marathon through conquering half marathons and many other experiences.
• Build on your experiences and learn to experiment. Rod discusses his training in the full episode!

[1:04:47] Believe in Your Ability

• When preparing for a big race, you need to protect your mindset and remember that running is an individual sport — it's all about you.
• Don't be influenced by others. Learn to pace yourself and run your own race.
• A race starts long before you set your foot on the track. Listen to the full episode for Rod's recounting of the NYC marathon.

[1:21:23] Build and Develop Your Mentality

• People will often hesitate when they face a hill. When you're in this situation, just keep going.
• Sometimes, some things won't happen the way you want them to. But certainly, your time will come.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode

'John would tell me. He said, 'You know, you've run the same race twice expecting a different result.' He said, 'You've got to run differently.'

'He said, 'You know, you set a goal, but I won't tell you how to do it. So, you've got to figure out what you're prepared to do. And I think, [it was] then [that] I realised it was my decision making and I had to focus.'

'You don't improve when you train, you improve when you recover.'

'Just remember to learn by doing.'

'I just thought this [the race] is about me. It's not about anybody.'

'I learned all that in my road racing. That sometimes, you just can't run away from people, but you can find out their vulnerable moments. And when they would come into a hill, they would hesitate because they'd look up the hill. And that's when you try.'

'My mother had said that sometimes, things won't happen the way you want them to. Sometimes, you know, you're watching this, but your time will come at another point or another time. And I realised then what she was saying when I had one that was my defining moment. It just took longer than average.'

About Rod

Rod Dixon is one of the most versatile runners from New Zealand. For 17 years, Rod continuously challenged himself with races. His awards include a bronze medal from the 1972 Olympic 1500m, two medals from the World Cross Country Championship and multiple 1500m championship titles from the United States, France, Great Britain and New Zealand. But most importantly, he is well-known for his victory at the 1983 New York City Marathon.

Now, Rod is passionate about children's health and fitness due to the lack of physical exercise and nutrition among children. Through KiDSMARATHON, he helps thousands of children learn the value of taking care of their bodies and developing positive life-long habits. The foundation has since made a difference in many children's lives.

You can reach out to Rod on LinkedIn.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Transcript Of The Podcast

Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Your host here, Lisa Tamati. Great to have you with me again. And before we head over to this week's exciting guest, just want to remind you, we have launched our premium membership for our patron programme for the podcast. So if you are loving the content, if you're enjoying it, if you're finding benefit in it and you want to help us keep getting this good content out to people, then we would love your support. And we would love to give you some amazing premium membership benefits as well. Head on over to patron.lisatamati.com. That's P-A-T-R-O-N patron.lisatamati.com, and join our exclusive membership club, only a couple of dollars a month. It's really nothing major. But what it does is it helps us make this content possible. As you can imagine, five and a half years of doing this for love, we need a little bit of help to keep this going if we want to be able to get world-leading experts and continue to deliver such amazing content. So if you can join us, we'd be really, really appreciative of it. Head over to patron.lisatamati.com.

And a reminder, too, if you are wanting help with your health, if you're wanting to up your performance. If you're a runner, and you're wanting to optimise your running, then please check out our programmes, we have our Running Hot Coaching Program, which is a package deal that we have. We make a personalised, customised programme for your next event. Whether it's a marathon or a 5k, it doesn't really matter, or a hundred-miler, we're up for that. And we're actually programming people for even much, much bigger distances than that. So if you want to come and join us over there, we'd love to see you at runninghotcoaching.com. That's personalised, customised running training programmes that will include everything, from your strength programme, your mobility work, your run sessions, your nutrition, your mindset, all of those sort of great aspects, you get a one-on-one session with me. You get video analysis of how are you running and how can we improve your actual form, plus your customised plan. And if you want ongoing support, then that's available as well. So, check that out at runninghotcoaching.com.

We also have our epigenetics programme, which is all about testing your genes, understanding your genetics, and how to optimise those genetics. So, eliminating all the trial and error so that you can understand how do you live your best life with the genes that you've been given? What is the optimal environment for those genes? So right food, the right exercise, the right timings of the day, what your dominant hormones are, what social environments will energise you what physical environments, what temperatures, what climates, what places? All of these aspects are covered in this ground-breaking programme that we've been running now for the past few years. It's really a next level programme that we have. So check out our epigenetics programme. You can go to epigenetics.peakwellness.co.nz, that's epigenetics, dot peak wellness.co dot.nz or just hop on over to my website, if that's a little bit easier, at lisatamati.com, and hit the work with us button and you'll see all of our programmes there.

Right over to the show now with an amazing guest who is one of my heroes, a hero from my childhood actually. Now I have Rod Dixon to guest. Rod Dixon, for those who don't know who he is, maybe you were born only in the past 20 years or so, and you really don't know. But if you're around when I was a kid, this guy was an absolute superstar. He is a four-times Olympian; he won a bronze medal at the 1972 Olympics. He's a runner, obviously, he won in the 1500 meters bronze medal. He's won multiple times championships and cross-country running, and who really one of his biggest successes was to win the New York City Marathon and absolute mammoth feats to do back in 1983. So hope you enjoy the insights that Rod Dixon is going to provide for you today. If you're a runner, you will love this one. But even if you just love interesting, amazing people then check out this interview with Rod Dixon.

Lisa: Well, welcome everybody. Today. I have an absolute legend with me on the show. I have Rod Dixon, one of my heroes from way back in the day, Rod, welcome to the show. It's wonderful to have you on Pushing the Limits. Thanks for taking the time.

Rod Dixon: Lisa, thank you. I mean, of course, I've known about you and read about you but this is our first time, and it's come about through the pandemic. So, some good things have come out of this.

Lisa: There's definitely some good things come out of it. And I've definitely known about you sort of pretty much my entire, since I was a little kid. So you're one of my heroes back in the day, so I was like, 'Oh, wow'. And the funny thing is, we got to meet through a friend in America who just happened to know you. And I was talking with them, and they're like, and I'm like, 'Can you introduce me?' Via America we've come, but to get you to Kiwi, so wonderful to have you on the show, Rod.

Rod, you hardly need an introduction. I think people know sort of your amazing achievements as an athlete and runner are many, and we're going to get into them. I think one of the biggest, most incredible things was winning the 1983 New York City Marathon. And that iconic image of you with your hands in the air going, and that guy behind you not such good shape. That's one of the most famous images there is. But Rod, can you tell us a little bit about your story, where you came from, how did that you were such a good runner? Give us a bit of background on you.

Rod: I think, Lisa, I started… I was born in Nelson, and living out at Stoke, which is just not far out. And my brother, John, three years older, he went to Stoke Primary School. And so, I was in a centre, I think. And my mother came out to check on me. And there's a young Rod, and he sees, and he said in the centre, 'I'll go and take my shower now'. And that was my chance to then put all the things that I've learned of how to climb over the gate. And I climbed over the gate, then off I went. My mother got the phone call from the Stoke school. 'Where is your son, Rodney?' He said, 'Oh he's at the back, hanging in the sand', and she's, 'No, well, he's down here at the Stokes school with his brother'. Because we used to walk John down to school and walk and go and meet him to walk him back. And so, I knew that way. And here is my chance, so I think, Lisa, I started when I was four years old, when I ran out.

Lisa: When you are escaping? And your brother John. I mean, he was a very talented, amazing runner as well. And actually, he's got into it before you did. Tell us a little bit of his story, because he was definitely been a big part of your career as well. Tell us about John a little bit.

Rod: Yeah, well, my mother's family were from Mishawaka. They're all farmers. And fortunately, they were tobacco farmers, hot guns, and sheep and cattle. And so, we would be over with the family a lot of the time. And of course, a big farm, and John would always say, 'Let's go down and catch some eels' or 'Let's go chase the rabbits'. And so we're on, outside running around all over time. And I think, then we used to have running races. And John would say, 'Well, you have 10 yards and say, for 20 yards, 50 yards, and see if you can beat me down to the swing bridge.' And I would try, and of course he'd catch me. So, there was always this incredible activity between us. And my dad was a very good runner, too. And so, we would go down for our, from the north we'll go down to the beach for swim. Pretty well, most nights we could walk and run down there. So we would all run down. And then we would run along the beach to the estuary, and run back again.

And then my dad, of course, he would stride out and just make sure that we knew our packing order. Slowly but surely, you see John waited for his moment where he beat dad. And I think, dad turned around and came back to me and he said, 'I won't run with John, I'll just run with you'. So, I knew what the story was that I had to do the same, but it took me another couple of years before I could beat my dad. So, running was very much an expression, very much part of us. We'd run to school, we'd run home. I would deliver the newspapers in the neighbourhood, most of the time I would run with dad. So, and then at 12 years old, I was able to join the running club, the Nelson Amateur Athletic Harriot and Cycling Club. There's three or four hundred in the club, and it was just incredible because it was like another extension of the family. And so we would run on farms and golf courses and at the beach or at the local school, sometimes the golf cart would let us run on the golf club. So, there was this running club. So the love of running was very part of my life.

Lisa: And you had a heck of a good genetics by the sound of it. You were just telling me a story, how your dad had actually cycled back in the 40s, was this around Australia, something like 30,000 miles or something? Incredible, like, wow, that's and on those bikes, on those days. And what an incredible—say he was obviously a very talented sports person.

Rod: I think he was more of an adventurer. We've got these amazing pictures of him with his workers in those days, they have to wear knee high leather boots. He's like Doctor Livingstone, explorer. And so he was exploring and traveling around Australia, just his diaries are incredible. What he did, where he went, and everything was on the bike, everything.. So, it was quite amazing, that endurance, I think you're right, Lisa...

Lisa: You had it in there.

Rod: ...there's this incredible thing and genetically, and my mother, she played basketball, and she was very athletic herself and gymnast. So I think a lot of that all came together for us kids.

Lisa: So you definitely had a good Kiwi kid upbringing and also some very, very good genetics, I mean, you don't get to the level that you have with my genetics that much. We're just comparing notes before and how we're opposite ends of the running scale, but both love running. It's lovely. So Rod, I want to dive in now on to a little bit of, some of your major achievements that you had along the way and what your training philosophies were, the mentors that you had, did you follow somebody and started training? Who were you— so, take me forward a little bit in time now to when you're really getting into the serious stuff. What was your training, structure and stuff like back in the day?

Rod: Well, it's very interesting, Lisa. This was after did, in fact, incredibly, he was working, and with Rothmans, and he would travel the country. And he would come to the running clubs to teach the coaches, to impart his principles and philosophy with the coaches. And my brother being three years older, I think he tended to connect with that more so, as younger kids. And but we were just pretty impressed, and Bill Bailey used to come in as a salesperson, and he would come and we'd all go out for lunch with Bill and he would tell stories. And we were fascinated by that, and encouraged by it, and inspired by it. So, I think what John did, as we started, John will get to Sydney in 1990. And he noticed that young Rodney was starting to — our three favourite words, Lisa, it's learned by doing. So I would learn from this race and I would adopt something different. I would try. When I knew, I mean, John would tell me, he said, 'You've run the same race twice expecting a different result.' He said, 'You've got to run differently'. And I would go out train with John and then he would say, 'Okay, now you turn around and go back home because we're going on for another hour'. So he knew how to brother me, how to look after me or study.

And so really, as I started to come through, John realised that maybe Rodney has got more talent and ability than I do. So, he started to put more effort into my training and that didn't really come to us about 18. So, he allowed those five, six years just for club running, doing the races, cross-country. I love cross country — and the more mud and the more fences and the more steep hills, the better I ran. And so that cross country running say I used to love running the beach races through the sand dunes. And I love trackless, fascinated with running on the grass tracks because of Peter Snell and yeah Murray Halberg. And also too fascinated with the books like The Kings Of Distance and of course, Jack Lovelock winning in 1936. One of the first things I wanted to do was to go down to Timaru Boys High School and hug the oak tree that was still growing there, 80 years old now, Lisa because they all got a little oak sapling for the end, and that is still growing at Timaru Boys High School,

Lisa: Wow. That was so special.

Rod: There's a lot of energy from all around me that inspired me. And I think that's what I decided then that I was going to take on the training, John asked me, and I said yes. And he said, 'What do you want to do?' And he said, and I said, 'Well, I just listened to the 1968 Olympics on my transistor radio' — which I tell kids, 'That was Wi-Fi, wireless'. And I said, I want to go to the Olympics one day. And he said, 'Right, well, they know you've made the commitment'. Now, obviously, during the training, John would say, 'Well, hold on, you took two days off there, what's going on? So, that's okay', he said, 'You set a goal, but I told you how to do it. So you've got to figure out what you're prepared to do'. And I think then I realised it was my decision making and I had to focus.

So I really, there was very, very few days that I didn't comply — not so much comply — but I was set. Hey, my goal, and my Everest is this, and this is what it's going to take.

Lisa: And that would have been the 19, so 1972.

Rod: No, 1968.

Lisa: 1968. Okay.

Rod: So now, I really put the focus on. Then we set the goal, what it would take, and really by 1970 and '70 or '71, I made the very, my very first Kewell Cross Country Tour. And I think we're finishing 10th in the world when I was just 20. We realised that that goal would be Olympics, that's two years' time, is not unreasonable. So, we started to think about the Olympics. And that became the goal on the bedroom wall. And I remember I put pictures of Peter Snell, Ron Clark and Jim Ryun and Kip Keino on my wall as my inspiration.

Lisa: Your visualisation technique, is that called now, your vision board and all that. And no, this was really the heyday of athletics and New Zealand, really. I mean, you had some, or in the 70s, at least, some other big names in the sport, did that help you — I don't think it's ever been repeated really, the levels that we sort of reached in those years?

Rod: No, no. know. It certainly is because there was Kevin Ross from Whanganui. He was 800, 1500. And then there's Dick Tyler, because he went on incredibly in 1974 at the Commonwealth Games, but Dick Quax, Tony Polhill, John Walker wasn't on the scene until about '73 right. So, but, here are these and I remember I went to Wanganui to run 1500. And just as a 21-year-old and I beat Tony Polhill who had won the British championships the year before. So we suddenly, I realised that —

Lisa: You're world class.

Rod: First with these guys, I can — but of course, there were races where I would be right out the back door. And we would sit down with it now, was it tactics, or was it something we weren't doing in training, or was it something we overdid the train. And we just had to work that out. It was very, very feeling based.

Lisa: And very early in the knowledge like, now we have everything as really — I mean, even when I started doing ultramarathons we didn't know anything. Like I didn't even know what a bloody electrolyte tablet was. Or that you had to go to the gym at all. I just ran, and I ran slow and I ran long. And back then I mean, you did have some—I mean absolutely as approach what's your take on that now like looking back and the knowledge we have now that sort of high mileage training stalls. What's your take on that?

Rod: Well, John realised, of course I am very much the hundred mile a week. John realised that and the terrain and I said, 'I don't want to run on the right job. I just don't like that.' He said, 'Okay, so then, we'll adapt that principle, because you like to run on the cross-country and mounds all around Nelson'. Yeah. And, and so we adapted, and I think I was best around the 80, 85 miles, with the conditioning. There would be some weeks, I would go to 100 because it was long and slow. And we would go out with the run to the other runners. And the talk test showed us how we were doing.

At 17, I was allowed to run them, Abel Tasman National Park. And of course, the track was quite challenging in those days, it wasn't a walkway like it is now. And so you couldn't run fast. And that was the principle behind bringing us all over there to run long and slow. And just to get the timing rather than the miles.

Lisa: Keep it light then, the time is for us to use it.

Rod: So, he used to go more with time. And then after, we'd come to Nelson and he would give John time. And John would, of course, I would have to write everything down in my diary. And John would have the diaries there. And he would sit with Arthur and I would go through them. And afterwards, we would give a big check, and say that 'I liked it. I like this, I liked it. I like to see you doing this'. And because we're still the basic principles of the period with the base as the foundation training, as you go towards your competitive peak, you're starting to narrow it down and do shorter, faster, or anaerobic work and with base track. And John, we just sit straight away, you don't improve when you train, you improve when you recover.

Lisa: Wow, wise.

Rod: Recovered and rest and recovery.

Lisa: Are you listening, athletes out there? You don't get better training alone. You need the rest and recovery, because that's still the hardest sell. That's still the hardest sell for athletes today, is to get them to prioritise the recovery, their sleep, their all of those sort of aspects over there. And like you already knew that back then.

Rod: And I said once again, just remember to learn by doing. So, unless you're going to record what you've learned today, you're not going to be able to refer to that. Sometimes John would say, 'Ooh, I noticed today that you didn't do this and this. Bring your diary over.' And on those days, of course, it was a blackboard and chalk. And he would write the titles at the top. And then from our diary, he would put under, he would take out, and he'd put under any of those headings. And then we'd stand back and said, 'Now look at this. There's three on this one, nine on this one, two on this one, six on this one.' We want to try and bring the lows up and the highs down. Let's get more consistency because this is your conditioning period. We don't need to have these spikes. We don't need to have this roller coaster. I want to keep it as steady as we can because it's a 8, 10-week foundation period. So those are the ways that we used to be. And John just simply said, he would say, when you wake up in the morning, take your heart rate. Take your pulse for 15 seconds, and write it down. And then he would say 'Look, the work we did yesterday, and the day before, yesterday, I noticed that there's a bit of a spike in your recovery on Tuesday and Wednesday. So instead of coming to the track tonight, just go out for a long slow run'.

Lisa: Wow and this was before EPS and heart rate monitors, and God knows what we've got available to us now to track everything. So what an incredible person John must have been like, because he also gave up pretty much his potential, really to help you foster your potential because you obviously genetically had an extreme gift. That's a pretty big sacrifice really, isn't?

Rod: He was incredible. And I just saw him yesterday, actually. And he used to live in the Marlborough Sounds. And of course, now that moved back to Nelson and so it's wonderful. I mean, I would always go down there and see him, and I used to love—well, I wouldn't run around — but I was biking around, all around the Marlborough Sounds, Kenepuru Sound. and I do four- or five-hour bike rides in the head. He says to me, 'What was your big thing?' And I said, 'Well, I saw three cars today, John, for three hours', and he said, 'Oh, yes, and two of those were in the driveway'. It was amazing. I just loved down there, but now he's back here we see each other and talk and we go through our bike rides, and we go for a little jiggle, jog, as we call it now.

Lisa: And so he helped you hone and tailor all of this and give you that guidance so that you boost your really strong foundation. So what was it, your very first big thing that you did? Was it then, would you say that for the Olympics?

Rod: I think qualifying — no, not qualifying — but making the New Zealand cross-country team, The World Cross Country Team at 1971. I think that was the defining moment of what we were doing was, 'Well, this is amazing.' And so, as I said, 1971, I finished 10th in the world. And then then John said, 'Well, what are you actually thinking for the Olympics? Are you thinking the steeplechase or the 5000 meters?' And I said, 'No, the 1500.' 'Why?' And I said, 'Oh, Jack Havelock, Peter Snell, John Davies', and then, he said, 'Good. You're committed, so let's do it'. Okay. Of course, once I have announced that, then, of course, I got all the — not criticism — but the suggestions from all the, 'Well, I think Rod's a bit optimistic about the 1500. He hasn't even broken 1'50 for the 800 meters. He hasn't yet been broken 4 minutes for a mile. He wants to go to the Olympics. And I think he should be thinking, and John said, 'Put the earmuffs on.'

Lisa: That is good advice. Don't listen to the naysayers.

Rod: Off we go. And then slowly, but surely, I was able to get a lot of races against Dick Quax and Tony Powell, and Kevin Ross, in that. And then I remember, in Wellington at Lower Hutt, I was able to break the four-minute mile, then I got very close in a race to the Olympic Qualifying time. And then of course, you look at qualifications. And a lot of those runners didn't want, they already realised that they hadn't got anywhere near it. So they didn't turn out for the trials. So John gave up any idea of him going to the Olympics. And he said, 'I'm coming to Auckland to pace you. And this time, you will stay right behind me. And when I move over and say go, go'. And so because we've done a couple of these earlier in the season, and 'I said that I can sprint later.' And of course, I missed out at the time, but this was it. And so, he said, 'Our goal is for you to win the trials and to break the qualification'. And he made it happen. He said, he ran in one second of every lap to get me to 300 meters to go. When he moved over, and he said 'Go!' I got the fight of my life and took off.

Lisa: You wouldn't dare not, after that dedication order. And you qualified you got–

Rod: I won the trials and qualified. And Tony Polhill had qualified in his and he had won the national championship. So he qualified when the nationals and now I've qualified and won the trials. So, they actually, they took us both incredible. He was an A-grade athlete, I was a B-grade athlete. You got everything paid for, be in your head to train.

Lisa: Yes, I know that one. And so then you got to actually go to the Olympics. Now what was that experience like? Because a lot of people, not many people in the world actually get to go to an Olympics. What's it like? What's it like?

Rod: So we went to Scandinavia, and to Europe to do some pre-training. And on those days, we used to say, 'Well, no, you got to acclimatised'. I mean, nowadays you can kind of go and run within a few days. But in my day, it was three to four weeks, you wanted to have —

Lisa: That's ideal to be honest.

Rod: Yeah, if they were right.

Lisa: Yeah. Get their time and like that whole jet lag shift and the changing of the time zones, and all of that sort of stuff takes a lot longer than people think to actually work out of the body. So yeah, okay, so now you're at the Olympics.

Rod: So here we were, so and John gave me a written for a track that schedule every day, and this was a training, and he had bounced with knowing that I was going to be flying from London to Denmark. And then, we're going to go to Sweden, and then we're going to go to Dosenbach. And so he expected in all the traveling, all the changes, and really a lot of it was I was able to go out there pretty well stayed with that. Now again, I realised that that wasn't going to work. And but what he had taught me, I was able to make an adjustment and use my feeling-based instinct, saying, 'What would John say to this?' John would say this because those all that journey, we'd have together, I learned very, very much to communicate with him. Any doubts, we would talk, we would sit down, and we would go over things. So, he had trained me for this very moment, to make decisions for myself. Incredible.

Lisa: Oh, he's amazing.

Rod: Absolutely.

Lisa: That's incredible. I'm just sort of picturing someone doing all that, especially back then, when you didn't have all the professional team coaches running around you and massage therapists and whatever else that the guys have now, guys and girls.

Rod: It was the two days he knew that I would respond, it would take me four to five races before I started to hit my plateau. I found early in those days that — see, I was a strength trainer to get my speed. I came across a lot of athletes who had speed to get their strength. And so, what I wrote, I found that when I would go against the speed to street, they would come out of the gate, first race and boom, hit their time.

Lisa: Hit their peak.

Rod: Whereas, I would take three, four or five races to get my flow going. And then I would start to do my thing. My rhythm was here, and then all of a sudden, then I would start to climb my Everest. I've been new. And so John said, 'These are the races that the athletic, the Olympic committee have given us. I want you to run 3000 meters on this race, I want you to run 800 meters if you can on this race. If you can't run 800, see if you can get 1000. I don't want you running at 1500 just yet. And so, then he would get me under, over. Under, and then by the time that three ball races, now it's time for you to run a couple of 1500s and a mile if you can. Then, I want you to go back to running a 3000 meters, or I want you to go back out and training'.

Lisa: Wow. Really specific. Like wow.

Rod: He was very unbelievable. Also to that at that time, I had these three amazing marathon runners, Dave McKenzie, our Boston Marathon winner, Jeff Foster, who is the absolute legend of our running, and a guy called Terry Maness. And John said to me, 'Don't train with quacks and all those other guys. Run, do your runs with the marathon runners'. You see, and they would take me out for a long slow run. Whereas if you went out with the others, you get all this group of runners, then they'd all be racing each other.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't race when you're training

Rod: Your ego. With the pecking order, when you ran with the marathon runners, there was no pecking order.

Lisa: It's all about pacing and —

Rod: And of course, and I would eat with them too because I learned how to eat because they were better eaters than me. I would eat more carbohydrates and more organic foods because it was the long run. I learned to do that. It was interesting because Jack pointed out to me said, 'Now you see those two guys that were at the track today. And they were doing, and you are quite overwhelmed because they are your competitors and they were doing this incredible workout'. And I said to them, I said, 'Woop, that what I was up against'. And Jack said, 'Put it behind you. I want you to come to the dining room with us tonight, and we'll try and see if we can sit with them or near them.' And I'm sure enough, there they were over there and they were talking. And they were pushing their food all around their plate and they weren't eating much'. And Jack said, 'Look at you, you've eaten everything, and you're going back for seconds and thirds. If they're not replacing their glycogen, they won't be able to run very well in a couple of days because they're not eating right'. So that gave me the confidence. Oh, I'm eating better than them. So they may have trained better. And sure enough, you didn't see them at the track. And the coach had taken them off because they were obviously racing too hard, they were racing their and not recovering.

Lisa: Recovering. Yeah, so don't be intimidated. Because it's very easy, isn't it, when you start to doubt your own methods and your own strategies, and you haven't done it right, and so-and-so's got it better than me, and they're more talented. And this is — all that negative self-talk, and you found a couple of guys to go, 'Hang on, you've got this part better than they've got.' What a great sort of mentoring thing for them to have done, to put you in that sort of good headspace. On the headspace thing, how did you deal with the doubts? Did you ever have lots of self-doubts? I mean, I know I certainly I did, where you don't feel good enough. Like you're what am I doing here? The old imposter syndrome type thing? Did that ever rear its head in your world? Or were you able to focus and...?

Rod: No, absolutely, Lisa. I mean, I would often, fortunately, I could go to John with any question. There is nothing, no stone left unturned. He was amazing. Because he sensed it too, by the way, that being that brother, playing and training. And he was very, very connected with me because he would train with me, and he would sense things. And he'd say to me, he said, 'Oh, you're a little bit down today, aren't you?' and he said, 'What's happened?' There are like bit of a bullying going on in school and this or that, or 'That girl won't talk to me anymore, and I love her' and that stuff.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, all that stuff.

Rod: And so he was like Marian, my mother. She was very, very on to me, too. She would sit with me and talk with me. And her mother, my grandmother, amazing, amazing people. And I will say this, right now, when my mother was 95 years old, she asked me to come and sit with her on her birthday. And she held my hand. And she said, 'You can call me Marian from now on'. And I said, 'Wow, this is fantastic'. And that was my mother's gift to me because I've always called her mother. I never call her mum. No. Always 'mother'. And that relationship with my mother was very, very powerful, and it came through in my running. And John would now and again have to kind of toughen me up a little bit — that was incredible balance. So I never had anything that I had, I took to bed with me, I never had anything that I would go out.

Lisa: Get it all out.

Rod: I would say, sometimes, if you're running through the Dan Mountain Retreat. And he said, 'I know what you get yourself wound up'. He said, 'Stop, take your shoes off, and hug a tree.'

Lisa: These guys is just so like, what astounds me is that your mom, your brother, these good mentors and coaches that you had were so advanced. And this is the stuff that we're talking about now, like, I'm telling my athletes to take your shoes off and go and ground yourself every day. And go hug a tree and get out in the sunlight and get away from the screens and do all these basic sort of things. But back then there wasn't that, like, there wasn't all this knowledge that we have now, and they obviously innately just nurtured. It sounds like you had the perfect nurturing environment to become the best version of yourself.

Rod: Yes, I think so, Lisa. I was very, very, — and wonderfully, even in the club, in our running club, get this, our chairman of our running club was Harold Nelson, 1948 Olympian. Our club captain was Carrie Williams, five times Australasian cross-country champion. And they took time to run with us kids. They didn't all go out and race. The club captain and Harold would come down and talk with us kids and we would run. And then, I remember Carrie Williams, when he took us for a run. And he said, 'Right'. He said, 'Now there's a barbed wire fence in, there's a gate'. And he said, 'We've got the flag there and the flag there'. He said, 'You got a choice of going over the barbed wire fence or over the gate'. He said, 'Come on, you boys, off you go'. And of course, 9 out of 10 went over the gate. And a friend of mine, Roger Seidman and I, we went over the barbed wire. And then he said, 'Why did you do that?' And I said, 'Because it was shorter.' And they turned to the others, and he said, 'I like his thinking'. And he said, 'You've got to have, to jump over a barbed wire fence, you've got to have 100%, you got to have 90% confidence and 10% ability.

Lisa: And a lot of commitment. That is a good analogy.

Rod: Things like that, all started to, there's this big, big jigsaw puzzle. And all those pieces started to make sense. And I can start to build that picture. And when I started to see the picture coming, I understood what they were telling me. And once again, learn by doing — or another word, another thing that John had above my bed was a sign, 'Don't be influenced by habits'.

Lisa: Wow, that's a good piece of advice for life. I think I might stick that on my Instagram today, Rod Dixon says.

Rod: And, of course, wonderfully, all these I've carried on with my programme that I did with the LA marathon, and bringing people from the couch to the finish line now. And when I was going through, we're putting through, I started off with five or six hundred. But I got up to over 2000 people. And basically, it's the matter that I used for my kids' programme is, 'Finishing is winning. Slow and steady. The tortoise won the race.'

Lisa: Well, that's definitely been my bloody life history, that's for sure. Finishing is winning and the tortoise wins the race. Yeah, if you go long enough, and everyone else has sort of stopped somewhere, and you're still going. That was my sort of philosophy, if I just keep running longer than everybody else, and whatever. Let's go now, because I'm aware of time and everything, and there's just so much to unpack here. I want to talk about the New York City Marathon because it was pretty, I mean, so you did the Olympics. Let's finish that story first, because you got bronze medal at the 1500 at the Olympics. Now, what was that like a massive, life-changing thing to get an Olympic medal? You did it four times, the first time?

Rod: I mean, my goal, and I remember, I've still got a handwritten notes of John. And our goal was to get to the sideline at the first heat. And if you can qualify for the next thing, would we give you this, that, if you're there, this is what we've worked for. And of course, and I remember 1968 again, when I was listening to my transistor radio, to the 1500 meters with Keino and Ryun, Jim Ryun, the world record holder, Kip Keino, Commonwealth champion from Edinburgh in 1970. And here he was, this incredible race, and we were absolutely going in there, listening to it, and it was incredible. And to think they said that four years later, I'm on the start line, and beside me, is Kip Keino.

Lisa: Yeah, it'd be, it's pretty amazing.

Rod: And then the next runner to come and stand beside me was Jim Ryun, the world record holder and here I am. And I'm thinking because I don't pick it out, when we got the heats, well you've got the world record holder, silver medallist, and you've got the Olympic gold medallist in my race, and only two go through to the next leap. So I'm going for it but I never, I wasn't overwhelmed by that because John has said to me, our goal is, and I wanted to please John by meeting our goal, at least get to the next round. Well, history has shown that Jim Ryun was tripped up and fell and I finished second behind Keino to go through to the next round. And then and then of course, I won my semi-final. So, I was in the final, and this was unbelievable, it's no doubt is –

Lisa: It's like you're pinching yourself, 'Is this real?' All that finals and the Olympics. And you ended up third on that race, on the podium, with a needle around your neck on your first attempt in a distance where the people sent you, 'Yeah, not really suited to this tribe'.

Rod: And what was amazing is that just after we know that we've got the middle and went back to the back, and after Lillian came in into the room to congratulated me and Bill Bailey. And they said, 'You realise that you broke Peter Snell's New Zealand record'. And I was almost like, 'Oh my god, I didn't mean to do that'.

Lisa: Apologising for breaking the record. Oh, my goodness. I'm sure that's just epic. And then you went on to more Olympic glory. Tell us from...

Rod: So at that stage, we went back to… New Zealand team were invited to the Crystal Palace in London for what they called the International Athletes Meet. And it was a full house, 40,000 people, and I didn't want to run the 1500 — or they didn't actually have a 1500 — they had a 3000, or two mark, this right, we had a two-mark. And that's what I wanted to run, the two mark, and that was Steve Prefontaine, the American record holder, and he just finished fourth at the Olympics. And I went out and we had a great race — unbelievable race. I won it, setting a Commonwealth and New Zealand record. He set the American record. And that was just like, now, it was just beginning to think, wow, I can actually run further than 1500.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, you can. You certainly did.

Rod: So we got invited to go back to Europe at '73. And so we have the called, the Pacific Conference Games in '73, in Toronto. So, I asked the Athletic people, 'Can I use my ticket to Toronto, and then on to London?' Because I had to buy—may they allow me to use that ticket. And then Dick Quax and Tony Polhill said they were going to do the same. And then we had this young guy call me, John Walker. And he said, 'I hear you guys are going to England. And could I come with you?' And I said, 'Yeah', because he didn't go to the Olympics, but he ran some great races, we thought it was heavy. And he said, 'Now do you get me the ticket?' And I said, 'No, you have to get the ticket'. And he said, 'Oh, how do I do that?' And I said, 'If you, can't you afford it?', and he said, 'Not really'. I said, have you got a car? He said, 'Yes'. I said, 'Well, sell it'. And he said, 'Really?' So he did. And my reasoning is that, 'John, if you run well enough, you'll get your tickets back again, which means you'll be able to buy your car back again.' And that was John...

Lisa: Put your ass on the line and forward you're on, because this all amateur sport, back in the day. And it was hard going, like to be a world-class athlete while trying to make a living and how did you manage all of that, like, financially? How the heck did you do it?

Rod: Well, before I left in '73, I worked full time, eight hours a day. I did a milk run at night. I worked in a menswear store on a Friday night. And then of course, fortunately, I was able to communicate with Pekka Vasala from Finland. And he said, 'We can get you tickets. So the thing is, get as many tickets as you can, and then you can cash them in'. Right. But then, so you get the ticket, of course, there you wouldn't get the full face of the ticket because you were cashing it in. But if you got enough to get around. And you did get expenses, double AF and those rows you're able to get per diem, what they call per diem. Yep. But by the time you came back, you kind of hopefully, you equal, you weren't in debt.

Lisa: Yeah.

Rod: Well, then you go back and comment for the Sydney Olympics. Very good friend of mine allowed us to go do shooting and we would go out every weekend and then sell with venison. Yeah. And that was giving another $100 a weekend in, into the kitty.

Lisa: Into the kid. And this is what you do, like to set, I mean, I must admit like when I represented New Zealand, so I did 24-hour racing and it's a ripe old age of 42. Finally qualifying after eight years of steps. And I qualified as a B athlete, I did 193.4 in 24 hours and I had to get to 200. I didn't make the 200, but hey, I qualified. And then we didn't even get a singlet, we, and the annoying thing in my case was that we qualified for the World Champs but they wouldn't let us go to the World Champs. And I've been trying for this for eight years before I could actually qualified. And I was desperate to go to the World Champs and then just on the day that the entries had to be in at the World Champs athletics, New Zealand athletic said, 'Yes, you can actually go' and I'm like, 'Well, where am I going to pull $10,000 out of my back pocket on the day of closing?' So I didn't get to go to the World Champs, which was really disappointing. So I only got to go to the Commonwealth Champs in England and got to represent my country, at least. Because that had been my dream for since I was a little wee girl, watching you guys do your thing. And my dad had always been, 'You have to represent your country in something, so get your act together'. And I failed on everything. And I failed and I failed, and failed. And I was a gymnast, as a kid, it took me till I was 42 years old to actually do that and we had to buy our own singlet, we'd design our own singlets, we didn't even get that. And that was disappointing. And this is way later, obviously, this is only what 2010, 9, somewhere, I can't remember the exact date. And so, so fight, like you're in a sport that has no money. So to be able to like, still has, to become a professional at it, I managed to do that for a number of years, because I got really good at marketing. And doing whatever needed to be done — making documentaries, doing whatever, to get to the races. So like, even though I was like a generation behind you guys, really, it's still the same for a lot of sports. It's a hard, rough road and you having to work full time and do all this planning. But a good life lessons, in a way, when you have to work really hard to get there. And then you don't take it for granted.

Now, I really want to talk about the New York City Marathon. Because there's probably like, wow, how the heck did you have such a versatile career from running track and running these, short distances? It's super high speeds, to then be able to contemplate even doing a marathon distance. I mean, the opposite ends of the scale, really. How did that transition happen?

Rod: Yeah, I think from '73, '74, I realised that John Walker's and then Filbert Bayi and some of these guys were coming through from the 800,000 meters. And so I knew, at that stage, it was probably a good idea for me to be thinking of the 5000 meters. So that was my goal in 75 was to run three or four 5000 meters, but still keep my hand in the 1500. Because that was the speed that was required for 5000. You realise that when I moved to 5000, I was definitely the fastest miler amongst them, and that gave me a lot of confidence, but it didn't give me that security to think that they can't do it too.

So I kept running, the 800s, 1500s as much as I could, then up to 3000 meters, then up to five, then back to 3000, 1500 as much as I can. And that worked in '75. So then we knew that programme, I came back to John with that whole synopsis. And then we playing for '76 5000 meters at the Montreal Olympics. Pretty well, everything went well. I got viral pneumonia three weeks before the Olympics.

Lisa: Oh my gosh. Didn't realise that.

Rod: Haven't talked about this very much, it just took the edge off me.

Lisa: It takes longer than three weeks to get over pneumonia

Rod: And I was full of antibiotics, of course. It might have been four weeks but certainly I was coming right but not quite. Yeah. So the Olympics '76 was a disappointment. Yeah, finishing fourth. I think the listeners set behind the first.

Lisa: Pretty bloody good for somebody who had pneumonia previously.

Rod: Then I went back to Europe. And then from that point on, I didn't lose a race. And in fact, in '76, I won the British 1500 meters at Sebastian Coe and Mo Crafter, and Grand Cayman, and those guys. So, then I focused everything really on the next couple of years, I'm going to go back to cross-country. And I'm going to go back to the Olympics in 1980 in Moscow, this is going to be the goal. And as you know, Lisa, we, New Zealand joined the World Cup. And we were actually in Philadelphia, on our way to the Olympics, when Amelia Dyer came up to John Walker, and I said, 'Isn't it just disappointing, you're not going to the Olympics'. And I look at John and go...

Lisa: What the heck are you talking about?

Rod: No, and we don't? New Zealand joined the boycott. So at that stage, they said, 'Look, we've still got Europe, we can still go on, we can still race'. And I said, 'Well, I'm not going to Europe. I'm not going to go to Europe and run races against the people who are going to go to the Olympics. What? There's nothing in that for me'. And I said, 'I heard there's a road race here in Philadelphia next weekend. I'm going to stay here. I'm going to go and run that road race. And then I'll probably go back to New Zealand'.

Well, I went out and I finished third in that road race against Bill Rogers, the four-time Boston, four-time New York Marathon winner, Gary Spinelli, who was one of the top runners and I thought, 'Wow, I can do this'. And so, I called John, and we started to talk about it. And he said, 'Well, you really don't have to do much different to what you've been doing. You've already got your base, you already understand that your training pyramid'. He says, 'You've got to go back and do those periodisation… Maybe you still got to do your track, your anaerobic work.' And he said, 'And then just stepping up to 10,000 meters is not really that difficult for you'.

So, I started experimenting, and sure enough, that started to come. And in those days, of course, you could call every day and go through a separate jar. I had a fax machine, faxing through, and then slowly but surely, I started to get the confidence that I could run 15k. And then I would run a few 10 milers, and I was winning those. And then of course, then I would run a few races, which is also bit too much downhill for me, I'm not good on downhill. So I'll keep away from those steps to select. And then I started to select the races, which were ranked, very high-ranked, so A-grade races. And then I put in some B-grade races and some C. So, I bounced them all around so that I was not racing every weekend, and then I started to get a pattern going. And then of course, I was able to move up to, as I said, 10 mile. And I thought now I'm going to give this half marathon a go. So, I ran the half marathon, I got a good sense from that. And then, I think at the end of that first year, I came back rank number one, road racing. And so then I knew what to do for the next year. And then I worked with the Pepsi Cola company, and they used to have the Pepsi 10K races all around the country. And so I said, I'd like to run some of these for you, and do the PR media. And that took me away from the limelight races.

And so, I would go and do media and talk to the runners and run with the runners and then race and win that. And I got funding for that, I got paid for that because I was under contract. And so I was the unable to pick out the key races for the rest of the set. And then slowly but surely, in 82, when I ran the Philadelphia half marathon and set the world record — that's when I knew, when I finished, I said, 'If I turn around, could you do that again?' And I said, 'Yes'. I didn't tell anybody because that would be a little bit too —

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Praising yourself.

Rod: So I just thought I'd make an honest assessment myself. And when I talked to John, he said, 'How?' and I said, 'Yes, I couldn't'. And he said, 'Well then, we're going to look at that'.

Lisa: We got some work to do.

Rod: He said, 'What we will do in 1982, you're going to come back and you're going to run the Pasta Marathon in Auckland, and that was going to be my trial. And Jack Foster was trying to be the first 50-year-old to break 2:20. So, I got alongside Jack and I said, 'Now this is my first marathon. What do I do?' And he said, 'I see all these runners going out there and warming up and I don't want to run 29 miles...

Lisa: For the marathon? I need to do some extra miles warmup.

Rod: 'Use the first mile as a warmup, just run with me'. I said, 'That'll do me'. So, I went out and ran with Jack and then we time in, started down to Iraq, and we're going through Newmarket. And he said, 'I think it's time for you to get up there with the leaders'. He said, 'You're looking at people on the sidewalk. You're chatting away as if it's a Sunday run. You're ready to go'. I said, 'You're ready?' and he said, 'Yeah, go'. And so, alright, because this is Jack Foster.

Lisa: Can't leave him.

Rod: 1974 at 42 years old. Jack said, 'You can climb Mount Everest,' I would do it. Yeah. So, I got up with the leaders and join them and out to Mission Bay. And on my way back, and I was running with Kevin Ryun, he who is also one of our legends from runners. And Kevin, he said, 'We're in a group of four or five'. And he said, he came out, he said, 'Get your ass out of here'. I said, 'What do you mean?' He said, 'You're running too easy. Make you break now.' So I said, 'Yes. Kevin'.

Lisa: Yes, Sir, I'm off.

Rod: So I ran one that and then that was when I talked with John, that was going to be the guidelines that maybe not another one this year, but certainly look at 83 as running a marathon at some point.

Lisa: How did you work the pacing? Like going from such a shorter distances and then you're going into these super long distances, where you're pacing and you're fuelling and all that sort of thing comes into it. Was it a big mind shift for you? Like not just sprint out of the gate, like you would in, say, 1500, the strategies are so very different for anything like this.

Rod: Certainly, those memories of running with the marathon boys in 72. And I went back to Dave McKenzie and Jack Foster and talked to them about what it takes. And then, John, my brother, John was also too, very, very in tune with them, and he knew all the boys, and so we started to talk about how it would be. And he said, 'So I want you to do, I want you to go back to doing those long Abel Tasman runs. I want you to do those long road aerobic runs, and just long and slow.' And he said, 'I don't want you going out there with your mates racing it. I want you to just lay that foundation again.' And he said, 'You've already done it', he said, 'It's just a natural progression for you'.

So it was just amazing, because it just felt comfortable. And at that time, I was living in Redding, Pennsylvania, and I would be running out or out through the Amish country and the farms and roads, they're just horse and cats.

Lisa: Awesome.

Rod: I had this fabulous forest, Nolde Forest, which is a state park. And I could run on there for three hours and just cross, but I wouldn't run the same trails. I mean, you'd run clockwise or anti-clockwise, so. And then, but I kept — I still kept that track mentality and still did my training aerobically but I didn't do it on the track. Fortunately, the spar side, they had a road that was always closed off only for emergencies. And it was about a three-mile road. And so, I asked if I could put a little pin markers with some tape, and I knew that there was 200, 400, 600, 800. And I would do my anaerobic work in this trail, not going to the track point. And then I would do the odd time trial at the track, but that was only maybe once a month, I would do any track work. And if I was doing it, if I did, wanted to do 2 by 1 mile, I do one mile, counterclock and one mile clockwise. And I could run within about 10 seconds either way.

Lisa: Wow. So, you really got your pacing down. And then, when did you set your sights on doing the New York Marathon?

Rod: It was interesting, Lisa, because in '82, I actually went to the World Cross Country. And I realised that I ran '71, '73, 1980. And I realised that if I was going to run marathons, I got to get back to my cross-country mentality.

So, I went to the World Cross Country in '82, in Rome. And I remember we always just sit around and Fred Lebow, the legend of New York City. Of course, he had heard about my marathon on in New Zealand, and he said, 'It's time for you to run New York'. I said, 'I don't think so. I don't think so.' Because Boston, London, and San Francisco all wanted me to run a marathon then. I wanted to go and have a look at the course. So Chris Brasher brought me into London. I had a look at the course, I quite liked the course in London. San Francisco was fascinating, because I love the hills, but I didn't like the downhill, so.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. It was a no-go there.

Rod: And Boston was too much downhill from Heartbreak. So really, I looked at New York, and I thought New York was going to be probably my best marathon course. I had to connect to it emotionally, physically, spiritually and mentally. So, it was ticking all those boxes for me. So, '82, at the World Cross Country, I said to Fred, 'Look, Fred, I will commit to running New York. But it won't be this year, because we've got 40 more races this year. I will look at 1983, and if I run one, I'm pretty sure to be New York'. And he said, 'Well, how do I put that all together?' And I said, 'Well, I'll tell you what, if I have a medal here at the World Cross Country, be it first, second or third, I will run the New York Marathon'. And I thought to myself, I'm just saying that. Wow. I mean, I'm out again to the finishing third. I was coming out into the finishing, there's somebody standing right in the middle of the finishing, and I thought, 'What the hell are you're doing there?'. And as I got closer, it was Fred.

Lisa: You're coming out.

Rod: And I said, it would be 1983, Fred. So, I made the commitment to him then. I said, 'I will come to New York Marathon in '82 and watch, and get a feeling of what is it all about and course notes'. And that was when Gomez and Salazar had this unbelievable race and right down to the finish line. And I remember I went out, ran on the Central Park the next morning, Monday morning. And I came across the finish line and I stood there — and of course, it was so weird, but it's like a visual warning.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, visual.

Rod: And I look up and I go, 'This is me, I can see myself here'.

Lisa: You're visualising getting yourself ready.

Rod: And it was funny because I know Arnold, Arnold would say, when I said Arnold, and I stood there and I get, 'I'll be back'.

Lisa: I'll be back. And you were definitely back. So the following year, you spend this year preparing solely for New York?

Rod: Yes, I came back to New Zealand and, and I did a few, I think it was called the pastor series of races, we did a few road races. And that was about mainly to come back to New Zealand for summer training and preparation. And then when I went back, I said, by this stage I had my whole schedule, and this was the first time in my life, they said, that I actually had a programme designed for one race. And that was going to be, no, these races here in between were part of that journey.

Lisa: Build-up races.

Rod: Over a hundred races. And so, and John said, 'If you're going to be serious about this, you've got to train. No distractions, you focus'. And what was incredible is when I committed to that first day, I felt, and I said, 'Been hugely influenced by Sir Edmund Hillary in my life and set the Mount Everest —'

Lisa: Yeah, that's your base camps.

Rod: Yeah. And so here I was now, for the first time my life, kind of like blinkers on.

Lisa: Tunnel vision. One thing. You gotta get up this mountain.

Rod: Going in and writing that diary every day. And it didn't become obsessive, but it became very, very much my goal orientation. And what was, I could see each month is that I was going up the mountain. I was climbing up. I wasn't having those fallbacks, and I just kept going and the blocks would building that improvement.

Lisa: Ugh, you must have incredible endurance, man. Yeah, and you've got a decade or more of actual base behind you now and experience at racing at this high level, and everything was sort of coming together.

Rod: It was. It was incredible. And the time trials. And I remember I said to my brother, John, I called my brother, 'You've got a 3000 meter time trial for me here.' But I said, 'I wanted run the mile'. And he said, 'What's your reasoning?' And I said, 'I don't know, John. Everything is right. Everything is done. I've done it. I've got all the texts, everything, all the ducks in a row'. And he said, 'So what's the draw?' And I said, 'I don't know. It just goes back to '72, I guess. It goes back to the Magic of The Mile. It goes back to snow. It goes back to Bannister; it goes back to Lovelock'. I said, 'It's all part of my journey'. And he said, 'Good boy, go out and run that mile. So, I went to the biker High School track. I had my mate come with me. And I said, 'I'll warm up. And when I'm ready, I will let you know. And you click the watch. Don't get me splits. I'm just going to go out there and run feeling base'. Now, I said, 'I'll come back'. And I said, 'Don't call out the time, I will come to you, and that's when you tell me the time'.

I went out there and I did everything as I would have done in the 70s. And I came, and I ran. And I felt just right. And I came across the line, and of course, I came over to him and I said — he said, 'What do you think you ran?' I said, 'I ran very close to it 4'1, 4'2, I think. Maybe. Yeah'. And he said, How about 3'58.6? Well, I said, 'That's it. Nothing has to be done'.

Lisa: Sub 4 minute and you're preparing for a marathon. So that's just insane. So we're going to have to wrap up in a few minutes. So we're going to get to the actual bloody — the day of the race. And I was really reading one of your articles, and you were talking about you didn't go the elite athletes' limos that they put on. You went in the public transport, what was all that about?

Rod: Well, all those years, with the runners, and very few of them I would go. What was this teaching? It's only a race, it's not the end of life.

Lisa: It could have changed the side.

Rod: And I will bet, because I went to the Expo, and I saw the enthusiasm and I saw everything going on. And I just was fascinated by all these people. And I just did my first marathon, really international marathon, and I was fascinated. And Fred said, 'Well, the limo will pick you up'. And I said. 'No. I'm going out on the bus'. He said, 'Oh. You can't go on the bus'. I said, 'I'm going'. And I did and I liked it, because there are coffee drinkers and bagel eaters.

Lisa: On the way to the marathon.

Rod: And I just listened to this and I laughed all the way out.

Lisa: And they had no idea who was sitting next to them, really. That's classic. So, did you do that to protect your mindset really? So you would not see the other guys? Or just because you wanted to be one of the crew and see?

Rod: I just thought, this is about me. It's not about anybody.

Lisa: Yeah, that's a good lesson for everything guys — just block out everybody else and do your thing. So now you're at the start line of the New York Marathon. How did the day go? We know the outcome, but spoiler alert.

Rod: They were there. Of course I actually set my time, my goal at 2009 laps.

Lisa: Yep. Same for me. I just can't.

Rod: So I put my information down, I didn't have watches or anything. And so, I did my 5-mile split, my 10-mile split, my 13-mile split, my 18- mile split, and my 23-mile split. So those were my splits and that's what I kind of wanted to go through. And it was, once again, Lisa, don't be influenced by others. So, I went out there, running my race within a race. And I stayed with these splits, and it was amazing. The first five mile, I went through within two seconds.

Lisa: Wow. You had such a expertise now at this — yep.

Rod: 10 miles, I was two seconds, and of course, you look down and you look at the clock and you go, 'Whoa'. So you getting a shot of adrenaline every time.

Lisa: You're setting your mark. Yeah.

Rod: The leaders were ahead of me. But I had to blink it, I didn't care.

Lisa: You didn't care.

Rod: Once again, don't be influenced by others. Run your own race.

Lisa: So such gold lessons you're sharing here.

Rod: And it is just amazing and that's how it just progressed. And of course, coming off the Verrazano Bridge onto the First Avenue, and the roar of the crowd was just incredible. I mean, every hair on my body stood out, it was so exciting. And so I could see the leaders out and I was slowly catching some of them. And then, of course, I knew where the leader was because of the lead car with the flashing lights. So, I couldn't quite see him, but I could see like where he was and people were calling out, 'Oh, you're two minutes behind'. I go, that's not two minutes. 'Oh, you only 20 seconds behind'. So you can't be influenced by–

Lisa: No, don't listen to them.

Rod: Once again, back to my goals. And then I came, I remember about 20 miles, I came around with quite, and it was starting to rain now. And I was where I created three pair of shoes, a very slick shoe, an intermediate, and a fur wick leather shoe and I went for the intermediate. Given it was going to rain hard. What was happening is when it starts to rain in New York City, the oil is on the road.

Lisa: Very slick. Yeah.

Rod: Quite slick. And the white lines are even more, it was like ice. So, I had to be very careful where I was going. And of course, you'd see the road and you'll be running and you've a bit of a pothole and you go down. So I was very careful. And I came around one corner and I just slipped a little bit and felt my hamstring twinge. So, I had to slow down, short my stride, and wonderfully, I was able to just do some acupressure. And a couple of times, I didn't quite get it but I got one with just, you could feel the whole release. Oh my gosh.

Lisa: That was lucky. That doesn't usually happen, you usually like struggling for, like, 'Aw aw'.

Rod: And then, of course, at that point 20 to 23, that little, short roads, and of course, I'd come around a corner looking up and there's nothing there. So, out of sight out of mind, and then I'll come around another corner, and just see them and they'd go around the corner. And then once we got into Central Park, it was a bit more open and I could see him.

Lisa: You can see where he was. Were you at second place at this point?

Rod: Yes, I was now on the second. And now I'm not very good at math. I wasn't good at math. At school, I got 23%, the teacher said he gave me 3% because I spelled my name right. What I do understand is that I'm getting the times and where he is in the miles, and I think I'm going to run out a distance here, I'm catching him at three seconds.

Lisa: So, he's 20 seconds in.

Rod: He's got to slow down. And I thought well, I can't really rely on him slowing down. So what else can I do? And I thought to myself, I've got to start running the shortest route. I've got to start running my tangents. And so the good thing is what I did see is that he was still — and in those days they had the blue line for the mountain — it was in the middle of the road. And he was —

Lisa: He was running the blue line.

Rod: So, I realise that I've got, in my mind, I have another 30, 40 corners. And if I could pick him up one- or two-seconds.

Lisa: One meters, two meters, yep.

Rod: This is the minute hand. Don't try and go any faster, stay within your rhythm. Don't think anything more than just running the tangents and running and staying within your ability. And then slowly but surely another corner and I can see us catching. Slowly, and then there's a bit of a rise up to Columbus Circle. And I noticed, he was in the middle of the road which is the apex of a high steep low. And I sat down low, and I kept my arms more short on my stride, leap more into it. I didn't look like a runner; I'd look like a mountaineer. And I got up into Columbus Circle and into the park, and here he was, he was only 100 yards ahead of me. And so, then I realised, I wonder if he is actually waiting for me to catch him before he speeds out.

So, I was kept and I realised he was still in the middle way and here's this nice turn, right turn. I went down through the apex and as soon as I got along his peripheral, I ran as hard as I could, so that he got the shock.

Lisa: He got a shock because you were like just suddenly and powerfully going past him.

Rod: Yes and he wasn't looking around either, too. I mean, motor racing, they have side mirrors so they can see what's going on behind.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. You guys can't.

Rod: Now again, I would always go around the corner and just glance back, I want to know what's going on. So he wasn't looking around, he wasn't really running the tangents. So, I realised that these are pluses for me, and it's the game of plus and minus.

Lisa: And you're just like — like I love this mentality of like what can I do in the situation where I cannot go faster? What can I do to stay, because a lot of people would break at that point, like he's 100 meters ahead of me. I've only got the sun, not going to make it. And you've got that negative self-talk going on. You obviously you're like, 'Ooh, what can I do here?' So your brain obviously goes to where's the around-the-obstacle solution here? What can I do? That's brilliant.

Rod: So, I learned all that in my road racing that I knew that sometimes you just can't run away from people but you can find out their vulnerable moment. And when they would come into a hill they would hesitate because they look up the hill and that's when you try and get five or six ahead of them, while they try to figure out. Then you do those things and then so, I would always, if I got 100 yards or 50 yards on a runner, I'd say, 'Right. Now settle back down again. You got that quite easy. I did that and I spent 20% of my energy to get back, I'm going to make you spend 80% to get it back'. So, I've let them come back up to me and then I would go again and that would mentally —

Lisa: Bust them.

Rod: So, I was able to play with things.

Lisa: That's gold.

Rod: And when I sometimes I'd be running and I would say, 'Okay I'm going to run this. They're expecting me to run this tangent but actually I'm not going to do that because that tangent takes you up a little bit of a hill. I'm going to go a little bit longer around here but it's not as steep so I can maintain the speed better rather than slowing down then speed up.'

Lisa: Wow, you're the master at strategy, yay.

Rod: They would come with me and then I'd go back and they come with me. And I realised they're doing exactly what I want them to do — they're running my race, you're not going to get my race.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you've got this all sussed for your particular set of talents and skills. And so coming down that last, but there were, you've got them in your sights now, what was that feeling like? Did you have that feeling 'I'm going to do this. I've got this guy' and did you break him as you went past him?

Rod: Well I think, I knew that everything I'd been thinking and doing and planning on running was, they got me to this point. Now I've got to kind of shock him or give him something that can affect. If you watch the tape, when I do go past, he threw his head back. Now, I didn't see that but I sensed he got a fright. And then of course, the next turn, it's 150 meters, but I was running scared.

Lisa: Psychologically, you've broken someone.

Rod: Was he going to come back for me? I just had a lot slight glance, we did the right turn and I could see that, and I saw the finish line, I said, 'He's not going to get me between here and there'. And of course, I'm full of adrenaline, that this is amazing.

Lisa: You're just over. Coming he's got that psychological brokenness of seeing you slide past where he's led the race the whole way. That's harsh. That's harsh.

Rod: I turned around, I looked at the finish line, I said, wow I'm the first person from Verrazano Bridge to here.

Lisa: Wow. Amazing.

Rod: So of course, across the line and I went down on my knee and of course, kissed it down. And I said, 'I was here this time last year saying I'll be back'.

Lisa: Yeah. And here you are, you'll be back. And did that change your life? Like to win New York's just pretty like, next level really.

Rod: To put the disappointment of '76 into perspective, the disappointment at the 1980 boycott, and I just, and I realised, and really, Marian, my mother, had said that sometimes things won't happen the way you want them sometimes. You're watching this, but your time will come at another point or another time. And I realised then what she was saying when I had won New York, that that was my defining moment, it just took longer than other people.

Lisa: Wow. That's a pretty big defining moment, not many people get to have a life like you've led, Rod. And I do feel like we probably need a bit of a second session because we haven't even gotten to the work that you've done, which is I really want to share about the kids marathon project and all the other stuff, the couch… What's the name of the couch programme that you had?

Rod: After the finish line? Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. That's the one, yeah. And to share a little bit of that and the work that you've been doing since then because I think that would be an important topic in themselves. But we're going to have to wrap it up to that for today. I've got a mum out there that's like banging around, giving me signs that I need to go and take her out. So, get her to her training.

So Rod, thank you so much for your time today for your insights, your wisdom, and sharing such an exciting ride. I think the listeners have been going up on the up and downs with you the whole way. And say hi to your amazing brother, John, I think what an incredible person to do all that with you. So, thanks very much, Rod.

Rod: Thank you for your inspiration to me too, by the way.

Lisa: I haven't done anything.

Rod: Yes, you have. I can feel it. I can sense it straight away.

Lisa: It's amazing. Very, very different athletes with very, very different skill sets and very different genetics. But we both love running and we both understand the power of running to change the world. And I think we can probably very much align on that.

Rod: Absolutely we do, Lisa. Thank you for your time and I've enjoyed every second. Every second.

Lisa: Thanks, Rod.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

Even the most resilient and strongest individuals are not safe from the bone-deep exhaustion that cancer can bring. Treatment protocols will vary depending on a patient's condition, but they may cause fatigue. While it takes an average of 17 years for medical research to reach clinical practice, it is beyond doubt that there are now better ways to treat cancer.

Did you know there is now emerging evidence that a ketogenic diet combined with standard cancer treatment may help patients? We often hear about the ketogenic diet from the fitness industry, but it's more than just for managing weight, glucose and insulin levels. Research shows it can also starve cancer cells and eventually kill them off!

In this episode, Dr Dominic D'Agostino discusses how the ketogenic diet has evolved and how we can adopt a proper ratio for our lifestyle. He also shares the press-pulse control to manage cancer, which includes utilising ketosis, Vitamin C and oxygen. Don't wait until you're diagnosed with a disease to become more mindful of your lifestyle and nutrition! Prevention is key if you want to live healthier.

If you want to learn more about fighting cancer and several other diseases through the ketogenic diet, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

1. Understand how exogenous ketones and the ketogenic diet can help make your cells more resilient and even combat cancer!
2. Remember that we need to prioritise preventing diseases. Starting early is key.
3. Learn how cancer cells function and how to kill them without suffering from side effects common from drugs.

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Episode Highlights [03:40] Dr Dom's Background

• Dr Dom majored in nutrition science and biology, then studied neuroscience for his PhD.
• Specifically, he studied the neural control of our physiology through electrophysiology. This includes respiratory and cardiovascular controls.
• His research interests then led him to study diving physiology and hyperbaric technologies.
• For over 15 years, Dr Dom has been developing hyperbaric technologies and nutritional and supplemental therapies to protect people from high hyperbaric conditions.

[06:14] How to Make Cells More Resilient

• Dr Dom shares that electrophysiology in hyperbaric chambers can directly measure neurons in response to the graded levels of oxygen in the chamber.
• Oxygen can provide a therapeutic effect, but too much of it can lead to a seizure (oxygen toxicity).
• His research on measuring the cellular response on the level of mitochondria and plasma membrane led him to study how to control the metabolic states of the cell to make them more resilient to extreme environments.
• Dr Dom worked with the NAVY Seal divers and focused on treatments such as lactate, glucose and ketones to enhance cell metabolic states and reduce seizures.
• Ketones can not only make cells more resilient but also help maintain resting membrane potential and have less oxidative stress.

[12:07] How the Ketogenic Diet has Evolved

• The ketogenic diet is celebrating its 100th year anniversary in clinical use. It started as a standard of care for drug-resistant epilepsy in children.
• Anti-epileptic drugs have been found to delay learning development in kids, while the diet can enhance development.
• The ketogenic diet has also evolved over the years. The modified Atkins diet, or MADD, utilises a 20–25% protein diet.
• The quantity and type of fat are important when considering a ketogenic diet. Listen to the full episode to learn more!
• Over the years, research on the ketogenic diet and its applications have surged. Now, Dom is working with the Navy to not only use ketones to block seizures, but to also enhance performance.

[18:56] What is the Ketogenic Diet for?

• There are two primary uses for the ketogenic diet: life-saving and prevention.
• If your intent is to manage seizure disorders, neurological disorders, cancers,and other disorders, you need to implement a ketogenic diet continuously.
• Using the ketogenic diet for prevention can be for controlling glucose and insulin levels.
• It's better to prevent disorders and diseases by getting ahead of the problem.
• For example, those who are pre-diabetic should start monitoring their glucose levels and learn how to eat better to avoid becoming diabetic.

[23:13] Prioritise Prevention

• Diabetes can be the gateway to a host of other diseases. Prevention is key.
• The ketogenic diet can be very effective in controlling your glucose and insulin levels.
• When tracking your glucose levels, don't focus on single time points. Instead, observe how the levels change over time.
• Understand the dynamic of glucose in your body. You can correlate them with changes in inflammatory markers.
• You can check whether you're in ketosis through biomarkers that can be measured through breath, blood or urine ketones.

[27:26] How to Adopt the Ketogenic Diet to Your Lifestyle

• The ketogenic diet is four parts fat and one part combination of protein and carbohydrates.
• This means around 90% fat, 8 to 10% protein, and around 10 grams of fibrous carbohydrates. This is the recommended diet used for pediatric epilepsy.
• You can also modify the diet if you find it too strict and difficult to follow.
• Ketones have been found to be anti-inflammatory, neuroprotective, and have epigenetic effects.

[29:23] Managing Cancer Through the Ketogenic Diet

• It's not enough to cut down on sugar. Cancer cells are metabolically flexible and can use other sources like glutamine, fatty acids, and more.
• Studies show that if you take away glucose from cancer cells and give them ketones, they will eventually die.
• Cancer patients will experience the Warburg effect, where cells revert to a primitive form of energy metabolism by directing biomolecules to anabolic processes.
• However, this also allows cancer cells to grow, divide and expand.
• Treating cancer can be done by blocking DNA replication like chemotherapy or by energy restriction. While you cannot fast forever, you can achieve the fasting state through a ketogenic diet.

[38:33] Utilise Autophagy to Kill Cancer Cells

• Cancer cells naturally have higher energy demand than healthy cells.
• When you restrict energy, you can stimulate autophagy, slowing down tumour growth and eventually killing it.
• There may be forms of cancer that can capitalise on autophagy, but this is not common.

[43:55] How to Use Vitamin C to Combat Cancer

• Glucose monitors tend to also detect Vitamin C as blood sugar since they are very similar.
• However, ascorbic acid can be antagonistic to glucose by using the same transporter. When you have high physiological levels of Vitamin C, you can impair glucose metabolism in cancer cells.
• Vitamin C can also help create the Fenton Effect, where it further increases oxidative stress in tumours.

[49:42] How Much Oxygen Is Enough for Cancer Cells?

• Cancer cells can die when exposed to a rise in oxygen.
• Dr Dom shares that his study used a 2.5 atmosphere of oxygen given for 60 minutes three days a week. This was done using a soft-shell chamber.
• Lower levels of oxygen can still be beneficial for cell production.
• Dr Dom recommends taking Vitamin C on the same day as getting hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

[55:29] What to Remember When You Have Cancer

• Nutrition should be the core of general health and cancer therapy.
• Restrict sugar, optimize glycemic control and suppress insulin. Do intermittent fasting if you can.
• If you're overweight, be more aggressive with fasting and the ketogenic diet. If you're underweight, make sure you have enough protein and nutrients.
• Dr Dom recommends foods like eggs, sardines, raw vegetables like salads, olive oil, nuts and non-glycemic fibrous carbohydrates.
• He also recommends taking exogenous ketones to further boost ketosis.

[1:02:53] Types of Exogenous Ketones

• MCT is useful for fat and ketone. You can also use ketone salts which are bound to electrolytes like sodium, calcium, potassium and magnesium.
• Racemic compounds optimise signalling and delivery pathways.
• You don't want spikes in your glucose and ketones.
• Listen to the full episode to learn more!

[1:09:08] Dr Dom's Recommendations

• Dr Dom has always been interested in fitness. Not only is he interested in the science of nutrition, but he also applies it to himself.
• Our bodies can withstand fasting. The more you do it, the easier it gets, and you'll get more benefits.
• Remember to take care of your body.

7 Powerful Quotes

'Oxygen is a stimulant to the brain, and if we get too high, it can actually trigger a seizure.'

'...some of the anti-epileptic drugs, if they are given to kids, they can cause developmental delays. Whereas if you administer a ketogenic diet, it actually enhances learning and memory.'

'We believe that it's very important if you're pre-diabetic, to get different wearable technologies that will tell you and coach you how to eat so you don't become diabetic.'

'Warburg hypothesized that the cells were producing, were fermenting because the mitochondria were damaged, and they were defaulting to a more primitive form of energy production.'

'The ketogenic diet is mimicking fasting and I think that the suppression of the hormone insulin, the reduction in glucose availability, and the elevation of ketones are all contributing to the anti-cancer effect.'

'...nutrition is really about the patient's health and they should not be advised to just eat anything to gain weight.'

'I think it's important to push the limit as well. I mean, I was always interested in fitness, and working out, strength training has been a form of self-medication.'

Resources

• Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
• Track your blood glucose in real time with Levels Health.
• Tripping Over the Truth: How the Metabolic Theory of Cancer is Overturning One of Medicine's Most Entrenched Paradigms by Travis Christofferson
• Curable: How an Unlikely Group of Radical Innovators is Trying to Transform our Health Care System by Travis Christofferson
• How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland
• Want to learn more from Dr Dom? Check out Peter Attia's podcast episodes with him:
• • Episode 116 - AMA with Dom D'Agostino, PhD, Part I of II: Ketogenic diet, exogenous ketones, and exercise
  • Episode 120 – AMA with Dom D'Agostino, PhD, Part II of II: Ketosis for cancer and chronic disease, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and the effect of ketosis on female health
  • Episode 5 - Dom D'Agostino, Ph.D.: ketosis, n=1, exogenous ketones, HBOT, seizures, and cancer
• You can also check out other podcasts where Dr Dom was a guest here.
• The 1-Week and 8-Month Effects of a Ketogenic Diet or Ketone Salt Supplementation on Multi-Organ Markers of Oxidative Stress and Mitochondrial Function in Rats
• Press-pulse: a novel therapeutic strategy for the metabolic management of cancer
• Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer
• Moffitt Cancer Center
• Get your exogenous ketones from Audacious Nutrition
• Keto Nutrition: Website | Youtube | Instagram | Facebook
• Connect with Dr Dom: Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram

About Dr Dom

Dr Dominic D'Agostino is currently an associate professor with tenure at the University of South Florida where he teaches in the Morsani College of Medicine and the Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Physiology. He focuses on topics such as neuropharmacology, medical biochemistry, physiology, neuroscience, and neuropharmacology. He is also a research scientist at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition (IHMC) where he researches optimization of safety, health, and resilience of astronauts and warfighters.

Over the last decade, Dr Dom and his lab have been focused on understanding the ketogenic diet and ketone supplementation for anticonvulsant and neuroprotective benefits. He was also a research investigator and crew member on NASA's Extreme Environment Mission Operation (NEEMO 22) and has an interest in ways to enhance resilience in extreme environments.

Learn more about Dr Dom's work on his website.

You can also connect with him on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

We often associate illnesses and pains with old age. But our guest today reveals that the real cause of health problems is how you've lived your life. Accumulated amounts of stress can change our bodies down to the cellular level. Luckily, scientific discoveries such as peptide therapy can help our cells function better. Age is not the issue. If you take care of yourself, being older can mean being at the peak of your performance.

In this episode, Dr William Seeds joins us to discuss how our cells function and how epigenetic influences can harm our bodies. He shares how peptides and peptide therapy play a crucial role in keeping ourselves healthy and treating injuries and illnesses! As we age, our bodies slowly lose their ability to perform specific functions, including growth hormone production. But with the right intervention, including peptide therapy, a 100-year-old can produce just as many growth hormones as someone a quarter their age!

If you want to learn more about peptide therapy and how to age gracefully, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

1. Understand that taking care of our cells and helping them function properly is essential to living a healthier life.
2. Discover why diseases are not a function of age but how we have experienced life and accumulated negative influences on our cells.
3. Learn the importance of growth hormones and how peptides and peptide therapy can help with the neuroplasticity of our brains.

Resources

• Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
• Peptide Protocols: Volume One by William Seeds
• Life Extension: A Practical Scientific Approach by Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw
• Pearson Chemistry by Drew Chan, Richard Hecker, Bob Hogendoorn, Kathryn Hiller, Louise Lennard, Mick Moylan, Pat O'Shea, Maria Porter, Patrick Sanders, Paul Waldron, Jim Sturgiss
• Boulder Longevity Institute
• Want to learn more from Dr William Seeds? Listen to his podcast, Sex, Drugs, and Epigenome.
• Connect with Dr William Seeds: Website | Youtube | LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter

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Episode Highlights [05:29] William's Background and His Father's Death

• William used to train with his father when he was a young athlete.
• Unfortunately, he lost his father on the track right before his eyes. He could not do anything to save him.
• His life changed drastically afterwards. As the eldest sibling, he had to take charge.
• William questioned how someone could seem like they're in the best of health but die so early. This thought led him to learn more about biochemistry and molecular biology.
• In the full episode, he shares the one book that jump-started his interest in biology and chemistry.

[09:15] Shifting from Business to Medical School

• William shares that he was a business major, but he spent most of his college days researching and reading more about biochemistry.
• He became so good that he started helping people with their biology classes.
• When he graduated from business school, he knew that his path was in medicine. Along the way, he faced people telling him that he couldn't do it.
• However, he found a way to enter medical school by taking accelerated classes during the summer. These classes let him qualify for the entrance exam.
• People's advice, even disbelief, can help us achieve the impossible. Listen to the full episode to learn more about William's shift and how he even got early admission!

[16:59] The Value of Constant Learning

• When William went into medical school, there were many things that didn't make sense to him. So he used to argue and get in trouble.
• He observed that the cell is more important than we give it credit for. While it's good to know its components, it's more important to understand how we can use it to treat illnesses.
• His work on nutrition and the cell built his orthopedic career and research on peptides. Eventually, he taught others about the application of peptides in their practices.
• Learning is not about being smart; it's about constantly working hard to gain and build knowledge.
• You have the power to explore what interests you and build expert-level knowledge based on the research you can find online.

[25:32] What Are Peptides?

• Peptides are signalling agents that help maintain cellular health.
• There are many different names of peptides, depending on how and where they are made. They can be called hormones, enzymes, or more.
• Some of the most significant scientific discoveries started with the study of peptides. For example, insulin is one of the major peptides discovered back in the 1920s.
• Peptides may seem complicated, but you can make people understand them.
• William encourages everyone to learn more about it to make better decisions for their health, but it is the job of empowered people to educate people.

[34:20] Peptide Therapy and Epigenetics

• Our genetics are unchangeable, but epigenetic influences can change how our cells transcribe and translate our gene's instructions.
• Epigenetic influences include things that affect us every day, like stress, aging, disease, and more.
• The work that William does, including peptide therapy, is all about epigenetics.
• Cells have their own intelligence. We just need to give them the ability to correct themselves.
• For instance, we need to maintain cellular redox — the thermodynamics of the cell.

[37:02] What Happens When a Cell is Not Performing Well

• When epigenetic influences harm the cells' performance, they become senescent cells.
• Our bodies are programmed to kill these unhealthy cells, but this doesn't happen all the time.
• Senescent cells are the key to aging and diseases.
• When these cells establish themselves in the body, it is hard to get rid of them, especially since they can build up over time.

[41:48] Aging and Growth Hormones

• As we age, the brain loses the capacity to release the same amount of growth hormone, which is the master regulator of our body.
• By the age of 30, we experience a slow decline in how much growth hormone we can produce, which decreases even more with age.
• However, you will never lose the capacity to create growth hormones.
• What dictates this production are the events in your life that affect your body and whether you have a buildup of senescent cells.
• Peptides and peptide therapy can help you regain the ability to release endogenous growth hormones based on your body's demand.

[44:29] How to Increase Growth Hormones

• There are over 100 types of growth hormones. Each one is released based on the body's demand.
• Cells can recognise if synthetic growth hormones do not match the demand, and this can be harmful.
• One way we naturally release growth hormones is during sleep.

[48:22] The Value of Growth Hormones

• Peptides can help not only with improving the increase of growth hormones but also with neuroplasticity.
• Certain peptides have specific uses. For example, Ipamorelin allows the secretion of growth hormone within 20 minutes of usage. This is typically used before sleeping and upon waking.
• Brain injuries tend to shut down more growth hormones. This goes to show how improving brain function involves many levels.
• Senescent cells suppress the stem cells' ability to perform repairs and can convert stem cells to senescent stem cells.
• Listen to the full episode to learn more about growth hormone pathways and how they improve function!

[53:07] Age is Not the Issue

• Even if neural pathways have been damaged, the brain can build new ones.
• Age is not an issue; older people can still produce new neural pathways.
• There are a lot of aspects needed to create these pathways. It involves timing, planning, building momentum, and supplements.
• The gut plays an important role in recovering from brain injuries since it makes a lot of neurotransmitters.
• You also need to look at the cell membrane because you can lose certain phospholipids vital to conduction in axons and how neurons work.

[56:49] There is Hope

• William's goal is to help people have enough knowledge to know that they can prevent themselves from things like a traumatic brain injury.
• Certain diseases take time to incubate, so you won't even know you're in its path until it's too late.
• We must take advantage of the knowledge that we can improve our cell's functions: we can change a cell to be more protective, more efficient, and keep it that way.
• We should aim to live our lives to the fullest capacity, no matter our age.
• William shares that even though he is already in his 60s, his capacity is at its peak.

7 Powerful Quotes

[29:25] 'If anybody tells you something is too complicated, you have to have a PhD to understand that, right away, you should call bullshit because it means [they] just can't teach well.'

[29:48] 'We all have the same capability of understanding. So our job is to educate people of what they have out there and not to keep them thinking they can't learn this.'

[44:58] 'The cell knows what to make when the body has the demand.'

[50:21] 'Growth hormone has some tremendous downstream effects that are effective in so many ways, in helping people regain the ability to improve cellular metabolism in the brain.'

[57:32] 'We can change a cell to be more protective, more efficient, and keep that cell.'

[57:41] 'We're not looking to live at 150 years of age… We're looking to live every day of our lives at our fullest capacity.'

[58:13] 'There is just so much that people deserve to know that they can be doing it, that they can change their lives no matter what state they're in.'

About Dr William Seeds

Dr William Seeds is a board-certified orthopedic surgeon. For over 25 years, he has been a leading physician specialising in all aspects of sports medicine and total joint treatments. Dr Seeds is also the world's leading authority on peptide therapy, with training in advanced metabolic and nutritional medicine.

In his constant pursuit of medical research, he has published several research papers. Among his works is the first handbook on peptides written for practitioners, Peptide Protocols Volume One. He is the founder and president of the Seeds Scientific Research and Performance (SSRP), the training institute on cellular medicine and peptide therapy for medical practitioners.

Dr Seeds is also the Chief of Surgery and Orthopedic Residency Site Director for University Hospital, Conneaut and Geneva, Ohio. He has also been honoured at the NFL Hall of Fame for his medical services as a Professional Medical Consultant for the MLB, NHL, NBA, and NBC's Dancing with the Stars.

Interested in Dr Seed's work? Check out his website.

You can also reach him on Youtube, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa