At last, here is the final installment of our interview with Jordan and Kate Jones (aka Part 3). This is also the end of Season #8. Thank you for being with us! Jordan shares something very profound at the top of the episode and we roll from there. We talk character change, perspective shift in what Jordan cared most about, and Jordan's wholesale surrender. We also talk about Kate's six months of detachment and her perspective on trust and ultimately that she knows deep down, no matter what, she will be okay. I loved the framework that Kate developed for herself - here are some of the truths she shared: #1 - No matter what, I will be okay. #2 - If something is going on, I know I will find out, #3 - I can't be with you all the time, but I do see your character. #4 - I don't need him to be okay for me to be okay. Toward the end of the podcast, Kate shares that the security she has in God and the work it took to get there is worth the struggles she has gone through. What sweet redemption. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.

• Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups - we have a couple of groups starting soon. You can snag all the details here.

• For more information on RL Academy, click here.

• Podcast Freebies can be found here. (Please note, you have to email us (see link below) if you need us to send the updated podcast freebies to you. Working on a better way to deliver these, but for now, we need you to let us know if you want the updated list of freebies.)

• The Worthy of Her Trust Workshop is SOLD OUT for April. Click here to get on the interest list for the next men's workshop outside San Antonio, TX, slated for late 2026.

• The RLW retreat is SOLD OUT, but we would love for you to add yourself to the interest list for the next retreat, slated for October of 2026.

• Empowered Boundaries is coming back in June - if you are interested in joining the 14th cohort, we would love to have you. Make sure you get on the waitlist here so you know when registration opens.

• If you are interested in a couples conference/event, we would love for you to let us know by filling out this quick form.

• Same with 1:1 Coaching - if you are curious about 1:1 coaching - start here.

• Anchored, led by Kate Jones, is SOLD OUT. It is a fantastic class, and if you are interested in taking this class in the future, join the WaitLIst here. No stress, it WILL come back!

• We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.

• Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus.

• We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, workshops/retreats, and online courses - check out our websites:redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop!

• Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + monthly polls + all the things. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list.

• Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

Here is Part 2 of our interview with Jordan and Kate. We talk about hiding, lying, addiction, compromises, alcohol, ADD, and relapses. Thank you again to Kate and Jordan for sharing their story with us and for being so vulnerable with what they shared. We will see you next week for Part 3 of Kate and Jordan's story, which coincides with the end of Season #8.

We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.

• Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups - we have a couple of groups starting soon. You can snag all the details here.
• For more information on RL Academy, click here.
• Podcast Freebies can be found here. (Please note, you have to email us (see link below) if you need us to send the updated podcast freebies to you. Working on a better way to deliver these, but for now, we need you to let us know if you want the updated list of freebies.)
• The Worthy of Her Trust Workshop is SOLD OUT for April. Click here to get on the interest list for the next men's workshop outside San Antonio, TX, slated for late 2026.
• The RLW retreat is SOLD OUT, but we would love for you to add yourself to the interest list for the next retreat, slated for October of 2026.
• Empowered Boundaries is coming back in June - if you are interested in joining the 14th cohort, we would love to have you. Make sure you get on the waitlist here so you know when registration opens.
• If you are interested in a couples conference/event, we would love for you to let us know by filling out this quick form.
• Same with 1:1 Coaching - if you are curious about 1:1 coaching - start here.
• Anchored, led by Kate Jones, is SOLD OUT. It is a fantastic class, and if you are interested in taking this class in the future, join the WaitLIst here. No stress, it WILL come back!
• We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.
• Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus.
• We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, workshops/retreats and online courses - check out our websites :redemptiveliving.com
• and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop!
• Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + monthly polls + all the things.
• Click here to subscribe to Jason's list.
• Questions for the Podcast?
• Email us with the subject line: Podcast

We are ending Season #8 of RL Radio with an interview with one of the amazing couples on our team - Kate and Jordan Jones. This will be at least a three-part series where Kate and Jordan share their story. SO many insights, so many things to learn from them. We are grateful for their vulnerability and humility in sharing about the choices made, the pain experienced, and the unknowns ahead of them. A HUGE thank you to Kate and Jordan!

We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8:

• Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups - we have a couple of groups starting soon. You can snag all the details here.

• For more information on RL Academy, click here.

• Podcast Freebies can be found here. (Please note, you have to email us (see link below) if you need us to send the updated podcast freebies to you. Working on a better way to deliver these, but for now, we need you to let us know if you want the updated list of freebies.)

• The Worthy of Her Trust Workshop is SOLD OUT for April. Click here to get on the interest list for the next men's workshop outside San Antonio, TX, slated for late 2026.

• The RLW retreat is SOLD OUT, but we would love for you to add yourself to the interest list for the next retreat, slated for October of 2026.

• Empowered Boundaries is coming back in June - if you are interested in joining the 14th cohort, we would love to have you. Make sure you get on the waitlist here so you know when registration opens.

• If you are interested in a couples conference/event, we would love for you to let us know by filling out this quick form.

• Same with 1:1 Coaching - if you are curious about 1:1 coaching - start here.

• Anchored, led by Kate Jones, is SOLD OUT. It is a fantastic class, and if you are interested in taking this class in the future, join the WaitLIst here. No stress, it WILL come back!

• We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.

• Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus.

• We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, workshops/retreats and online courses - check out our websites :redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop!

• Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + monthly polls + all the things. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list.

• Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

In this episode, we continue unpacking our discussion about what to do when HE thinks her anger is too much. To start with, we talk about how, from a Biblical perspective, we are taught NOT to get angry - see James 1:19 for an example. Most women we work with struggle to get angry. Therefore, our starting point with women is that her anger is NOT too much. AND - there are times when the expression of rage can be unhelpful. (I hope that isn't too confusing!) Jason then jumps in and talks through his Biblical research on anger - sharing that there are at least eight different words for anger. They fall into three categories:

• Smoldering, simmering expression of anger, always there, wanting to explode. (Can be expressed in an unhealthy way.)
• Violent outbursts of anger due to provocation (can be expressed in an unhealhty way).
• Godly anger that is a settled disposition - something opposed to what God says is right, good, and true, and it makes us mad. ( This is an ideal, controlled anger that we want to move toward.) See John 2:17.

We will experience ALL of these types of anger. What we want to do is be aware of them and be careful in how we express them, especially the first two. I end with reflection questions for her: #1 - Prior to this relationship, were there issues with anger for you? If so, it's an area that needs attention. #2 - Is there movement on the back end? As in - is the anger productive? Were you able to reflect on the back end - and is it guiding you to clarity? #3 - Are you moving toward the settled disposition, where you are getting clarity and able to own the anger? We wrap up by discussing: there are times when she will apologize for her anger, and if that happens, meeting her with much tenderness and gentleness is imperative. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.

• For more information on RL Academy, click here.

• Pocast Freebies can be found here. (Please note, you have to email us (see link below) if you need us to send the updated podcast freebies to you. Working on a better way to deliver these, but for now, we need you to let us know if you want the updated list of freebies.)

• Registration is OPEN for the next Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX. The workshop is April 24-26. Click here for all the details and to register.

• The RLW retreat is SOLD OUT, but we would love for you to add yourself to the interest list for the next retreat, slated for October of 2026.

• Empowered Boundaries is coming back in June - if you are interested in joining the 14th cohort, we would love to have you. Make sure you get on the waitlist here so you know when registration opens.

• If you are interested in a couples conference/event, we would love for you to let us know by filling out this quick form.

• Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups - there are three new groups starting in April. You can snag all the details here.

• Same with 1:1 Coaching - if you are curious about 1:1 coaching - start here.

• Anchored, led by Kate Jones, is SOLD OUT. It is a fantastic class, and if you are interested in taking this class in the future, join the WaitLIst here. No stress, it WILL come back!

• We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.

• Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus.

• We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, workshops/retreats and online courses - check out our websites :redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop!

• Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + monthly polls + all the things. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list.

• Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

In this episode, we wanted to address some feedback we have received, specifically with episodes #106 and #107 on Blocks to Anger Parts 1 and 2. In those two episodes, we wanted to really encourage women to find their anger. What can be helpful is when we NAME the blocks to anger and then bust through them.

The feedback we received is that we fell short by not addressing when her anger is actually too much. So, we decided to give the people what they want and address this.

Essentially, the question is - what about when he thinks her anger is too much?

In the first part of this two-part series, we speak to husbands about some of the reasons they might feel like her anger is too much. We also share several thoughts to consider + a pro-tip from Jason. This episode is for husbands, by a husband.

If you get confused, please snag the infographic - it's a part of the podcast freebies. Click here for those.

And finally, the verse Jason shares at the end of this episode is Psalm 69:7-9, (see also Romans 15:3 and John 2:17).

We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.

• Check out our Bowtie Diagram Tool.

• For more information on RL Academy, click here.

• Podcast Freebies can be found here. (Please note, you have to email us (see link below) if you need us to send the updated podcast freebies to you. Working on a better way to deliver these, but for now, we need you to let us know if you want the updated list of freebies.)

• Registration is OPEN for the next Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX. The workshop is April 24-26. Click here for all the details and to register.

• The RLW retreat is SOLD OUT, but we would love for you to add yourself to the interest list for the next retreat, slated for October of 2026.

• Empowered Boundaries is coming back in June - if you are interested in joining the 14th cohort, we would love to have you. Make sure you get on the waitlist here so you know when registration opens.

• If you are interested in a couples conference/event, we would love for you to let us know by filling out this quick form.

• Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups - there are three new groups starting in April. You can snag all the details here.

• Same with 1:1 Coaching - if you are curious about 1:1 coaching - start here.

• Anchored, led by Kate Jones, is SOLD OUT. It is a fantastic class, and if you are interested in taking this class in the future, join the WaitLIst here. No stress, it WILL come back!

• We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.

• Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus.

• We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, workshops/retreats and online courses - check out our websites :redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop!

• Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + monthly polls + all the things. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list.

• Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

In this episode, we talk about the practices that help us stay safe, avoid going too far off course, and ultimately navigate grief and pain. Jason, rightfully so, struggles with using the word anchor (he suggests we use the word buoy), and while I hear him, an anchor certainly doesn't help us literally keep our heads above water, I love what an anchor DOES do. Here is an excerpt from a book that I read AFTER we taped this episode - the book is called Anchored by Deb Dana - and Deb says this - "anchors are essential to staying safe in response to changing conditions. An anchor digs into the ocean floor with enough line between it and the boat to hold the boat safely in one place, but with enough leeway to move in response to changes in the sea and wind. Safety comes with a firmly embedded anchor and the right amount of line. When we are anchored, we have a sense of being safely held, so we can venture out without becoming adrift. We are connected to a state of regulation and have room to explore the world around us." I love how this is explained. I couldn't say it any better. Bottom line: anchors help us navigate unexpected changes and give us a sense of being cocooned in (safety) in the midst of the upheaval. Jason and I both share what our anchors have looked like throughout the process. I especially appreciated the recitation that Jason repeated to himself early in recovery and wanted to make sure to capture that here: God, you are good, and your intentions for me are good. I'm dearly loved and infinitely valuable. I am forgiven for what I have done. I walk in your grace. I don't have to act out today. We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.

• For more information on RL Academy, click here.

• Pocast Freebies can be found here. (Please note, you have to email us (see link below) if you need us to send the updated podcast freebies to you. Working on a better way to deliver these, but for now, we need you to let us know if you want the updated list of freebies.)

• Registration is OPEN for the next Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX. The workshop is April 24-26. Click here for all the details and to register.

• The RLW retreat is SOLD OUT, but we would love for you to add yourself to the interest list for the next retreat, slated for October of 2026.

• If you are interested in a couples conference/event, we would love for you to let us know by filling out this quick form.

• Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups - there are three new groups starting in April. You can snag all the details here.

• Same with 1:1 Coaching - if you are curious about 1:1 coaching - start here.

• Anchored, led by Kate Jones, is SOLD OUT. It is a fantastic class, and if you are interested in taking this class in the future, join the WaitLIst here. No stress, it WILL come back!

• We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.

• Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus.

• We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, workshops/retreats and online courses - check out our websites: redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop!

• Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + monthly polls + all the things. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list.

• Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

In this episode, a continuation of episode #113, Jason shares about what it looked like for him to "not take from me" (from a needs perspective) as well as a rubric he used to help keep him focused on what mattered most when I wasn't able or willing to meet his needs. We banter back and forth about staying up late talking recovery (Jason clearly thinks we stayed up until the wee hours of the morning for YEARS), we talk about Jason wanting physical touch from me while lying in bed at night and we also talk about times when he desperately needed something from me while sharing emotionally and I wasn't able to give it to him.

Please note: this had nothing to do with me having a callous heart (although I'm completely capable of that) and more to do with me holding boundaries and also hanging on by a thread and not having anything to pour into the relationship as it was hanging on by said thread.

You can download the rubric Jason talks about in this episode by clicking on the podcast freebie link.

Jason mentions several caveats:

- some women want to know what his needs are, even if both of them know she can't meet the needs. This is more so coming from a place of needing to see him be vulnerable and lean into intimacy. Jason cautioned the guys, in doing this, do not blame her for your needs.

- if a wife says she wants to know (his needs, in vulnerability), jason tells the guys - don't give an inch and take a mile.

Toward the end of the episode, we discuss how this applies when there is severe intimacy aversion, and he doesn't even share that he has needs. I thought this comment was key that Jason said: "the needs get shrouded in other things and expressed in ways that aren't vulerable - as in, they come out in passive aggressiveness or aggressiveness or in wonky expectations of things that don't make any sense."

We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.

• Shelley mentions Episode #85 when discussing super-sized needs. Here is a link to the episode.

• Registration is OPEN for the next Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX. The workshop is April 24-26. Click here for all the details and to register.

• Registration is open for the May RLW Retreat in Rosemary, FL. You can click here for all the details.

• If you are interested in a couples conference/event, we would love for you to let us know by filling out this quick form.

• Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups - there are three new groups starting in April. You can snag all the details here.

• Same with 1:1 Coaching - if you are curious about 1:1 coaching - start here.

• Anchored, led by Kate Jones, is SOLD OUT. It is a fantastic class, and if you are interested in taking this class in the future, join the WaitLIst here. No stress, it WILL come back!

• We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.

• For more information on RL Academy, click here.

• Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus.

• Pocast Freebies can be found here. (Please note, you have to email us (see link below) if you need us to send the updated podcast freebies to you. Working on a better way to deliver these, but for now, we need you to let us know if you want the updated list of freebies.)

• We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, and online courses - check out our websites :redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop!

• Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + monthly polls + all the things. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list.

• Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast

Bear with us through the first six minutes of this episode - not sure exactly what kind of point we are making as we talk, but also wasn't sure how to trim it out and for the rest to make sense, so I left it as is. Oftentimes in early and mid-recovery, husbands try to find comfort (of some kind) in her, whether via physical touch, words of affirmation, words of validation, physical proximity, time together, sex, etc. This is rooted in a common belief that husbands share: she still has a responsibility to meet some of my needs in the marriage. We talk about this common (and mistaken) belief, common misconceptions and in the next episode, we will walk through a rubric for men to use.

We are so glad YOU are here. Thanks for joining us for Season #8.

• Registration is OPEN for the next Worthy of Her Trust Workshop for men, outside San Antonio, TX. The workshop is April 24-26. Click here for all the details and to register.

• We have officially opened registration for the May RLW Retreat to the interest list. Next week, we will open registration to the public. You can click here for all the details.

• If you are interested in a couples conference/event, we would love for you to let us know by filling out this quick form.

• Ladies, would love for you to consider one of our support groups - there are three new groups starting in April. You can snag all the details here.

• Same with 1:1 Coaching - if you are curious about 1:1 coaching - start here.

• Anchored, led by Kate Jones, is SOLD OUT. It is a fantastic class, and if you are interested in taking this class in the future, join the WaitLIst here. No stress, it WILL come back!

• We will be uploading the video portion of the podcasts to the WOHT Academy website. If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll find the signup button for our Public Content Section. If the content is helpful, you might consider joining the Academy membership to access more teaching videos and weekly live teaching with our team.

• For more information on RL Academy, click here.

• Join the community on Instagram - @shelley_martinkus.

• Pocast Freebies can be found here.

• We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses, and online courses - check out our websites :redemptiveliving.com and rlforwomen.com for the full scoop!

• Click here to subscribe to Shelley's {almost} monthly letter + monthly polls + all the things. Click here to subscribe to Jason's list.

• Questions for the Podcast? Email us with the subject line: Podcast