Exciting news! New episodes are dropping on my Take the Next Step podcast, and I’m sharing this one here so you won’t miss out. Be sure to follow Take the Next Step with Amy Julia Becker wherever you listen so you are sure to get future episodes. https://pod.link/1838911087

More about Take the Next Step: amyjuliabecker.com/step/

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What if inclusion in schools didn’t have to be a constant fight? Adrian Wood, PhD, shares what actually helped her son with autism thrive in their public school system. Adrian and Amy Julia Becker explore:

• Building trust with educators
• Collaboration and creativity
• Navigating IEPs and transitions
• Small changes that make a big difference

Ask Me Anything: Record (or email) your question for our upcoming Ask Me Anything episode: amyjuliabecker.com/qr/

04:30 Navigating Public School for Children with Disabilities
 06:53 Creative Thinking and Working Together as a Team
 15:55 Strategies for Success 

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• VLOG: Tales of an Educated Debutante

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ABOUT:

Adrian Wood is the creator of the vlog Tales of an Educated Debutante. She has a PhD in Educational Research and contributes to Today Parents, The Today Show, and the Love What Matters blog. She lives in rural eastern North Carolina with her family. She is the co-author of Autism Out Loud.  

CONNECT with Adrian on her website (talesofaneducateddebutante.com), Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. 

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Take the Next Step is produced in collaboration with Hope Heals. Hope Heals creates sacred spaces of belonging and belovedness for families affected by disabilities to experience sustaining hope in the context of inclusive, intentional, inter-ability communities. Find out more about our resources, gatherings, and inter-ability communities at hopeheals.com. Follow on Instagram @hopeheals.

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S9 E9 — Our culture feels like a battlefield, but perspectives and actions change when we see it as a garden we’ve forgotten how to tend. Artist and author Makoto Fujimura shares with Amy Julia Becker how art, wonder, and imagination can restore our capacity to love, hope, and tend culture with care. Together they explore his book Art Is: A Journey into the Light, slow art, spiritual imagination, and a gentler way to live faithfully in a fractured world.

00:00 Introduction to Makoto Fujimura and the Process of Art
07:08 Stewardship Responsibility for Imagination and Creativity
13:34 The Importance of Slow Art and Observation
19:19 Engaging with Darkness in Art
22:15 The Role of Artists within the Darkness of Society
29:07 Giving Away Beauty: The Heart of Art
34:07 Imagination, Faith, and Love
42:58 Culture Care: Changing the Metaphor
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Art Is: A Journey into the Light, Art and Faith: A Theology of Making, and Culture Care: Reconnecting with Beauty for Our Common Life by Makoto Fujimura
• Embers International
• Amy Julia’s episode with Justin Giboney: “How the Civil Rights Generation Can Lead Us Out of the Culture War” with Justin Giboney 
• Amy Julia’s Take the Next Step podcast - new episodes beginning February 4, 2026

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Makoto Fujimura is a leading contemporary artist whose process driven, refractive “slow art” has been described by David Brooks of New York Times as “a small rebellion against the quickening of time”. In addition to his work as an artist, Mako is an author whose latest work is entitled Art Is: A Journey into the Light. From 2003 to 2009, he served as a Presidential appointee to the National Council on the Arts. He is a celebrated speaker and advocate for the arts and has received five Honorary Doctor of Arts degrees.

https://makotofujimura.com/

https://www.instagram.com/iamfujimura/

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S9 E8 — We're living through a season of deep division, political unrest, and global instability. Justin Giboney, political strategist and author of Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around, joins Amy Julia Becker to help us recover a moral imagination shaped by faith—one that resists polarization, refuses hatred, and offers a better way forward in public life.

00:00 Guidance from the Civil Rights Generation
07:18 The Black Church's Public Witness
10:00 The Civil Rights Movement vs Progressive Activism
13:52 Forgiveness and Redemption
17:28 Navigating the Culture Wars
25:39 The AND Campaign: Bridging Divides in Politics
28:51 Cultivating Moral Imagination
31:51 The Impact of Social Media
37:52 Practices for Living Out a Moral Imagination
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around: How the Black Church's Public Witness Leads Us out of the Culture War by Justin Giboney

 • AND Campaign: andcampaign.org

 • Church Politics podcast

 • Amy Julia's Take the Next Step podcast: amyjuliabecker.com/step/

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Justin Giboney (JD, Vanderbilt University) is an author, ordained minister, attorney, and political strategist. He is the founder and president of the AND Campaign, a Christian civic organization focused on raising civic literacy, promoting civic pluralism, and equipping Christians to engage politics with the love and truth of Jesus Christ. Justin is dedicated to promoting Christ-centered values as the basis for engagement in politics and social issues. 

BOOK: Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around

INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/justinegiboney/

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S9 E7 — Your body is trying to tell you something. Are you listening? In this episode, corporate lawyer Justin Whitmel Earley joins Amy Julia Becker to explore how spiritual life is also embodied life. As you reflect on the year ahead, this conversation invites you to think not in terms of resolutions, but in terms of habits that nurture health and wholeness. Justin and Amy Julia reflect on:

• How breathing can reconnect body and soul
• How fasting, feasting, and everyday meals contribute to the spiritual life
• How to understand pain and sickness in a world that is both beautiful and broken
• Why sleep matters spiritually

00:00 Intro: Anxiety Journey
05:20 The Body and Soul Connection
09:25 Cultural Disconnect
14:46 Breath: A Practice to Reconnect Body and Soul
23:35 Food: Fasting, Feasting, and Ordinary Fare
32:08 Understanding Pain and Sickness in a Broken World
38:18 The Spiritual Significance of Sleep

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Bible verses: Ephesians 2; Genesis 1-2; Genesis 2:7; Genesis 2:9; Psalm 23
• Kelly Kapic interview with Amy Julia
• Embodied Hope by Kelly Kapic

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Justin Whitmel Earley is a writer, speaker, and lawyer. He is the author of The Common Rule, Habits of the Household, and Made for People, though he spends most days running his business law practice. Through his writing and speaking, Justin empowers God’s people to thrive through life-giving habits that form them in the love of God and neighbor. He continually explores both how physical habits are more spiritual than we think and how spiritual habits are more physical than we think. He lives with his wife and four boys in Richmond, Virginia, spends a lot of time around fires and porches with friends, and is a part-owner of a local gym. You can follow him online at justinwhitmelearley.com.

ONLINE:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/justinwhitmelearleyauthor/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/justinwhitmelearley/

X: https://x.com/Justin_W_Earley

YouTube: www.youtube.com/@justinwhitmelearley163

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S9 E6 — In a season of parties and entertaining, it’s good to remember that hospitality means something very different—welcoming the stranger and caring for one another. In The Hospitality of Need, Kevan Chandler, born with a progressive disability, explores how dependence can expand life and deepen community. His story points us back to our shared human neediness, reflected in the baby lying in the manger. 

00:0 Reimagining the Good Life
06:12 Gift of Interdependence
12:52 Understanding Need and Hospitality
17:37 Proximity and Need
21:43 Peer to Peer Caregiving
26:39 A Journey to Skellig Michael
32:53 Spiritual Realities of Need
38:12 Invitation Into Need

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Amy Julia’s interview with Kevan on Take the Next Step
• The Hospitality of Need: How Depending on One Another Helps Us Heal and Grow Together by Kevan Chandler and Tommy Shelton
• We Carry Kevan 
• I John 1

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

KEVAN CHANDLER is the founder of the nonprofit organization We Carry Kevan and speaks worldwide about friendship and disability. He and his wife, Katie, enjoy doing everything together, including growing vegetables and reading to each other.

Kevan was the second of his siblings to be diagnosed with spinal muscular atrophy, type 2, a rare neuromuscular disease. In 2016, he and his friends took a trip across Europe, leaving his wheelchair at home, and his friends carried him for three weeks in a backpack.

An avid storyteller, Kevan is an author and speaker worldwide about his friendships and unique life with a disability, being a featured speaker for Tedx and Google, as well as various conferences, pharmaceutical companies, and universities.

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S9 E5 — There is a lot of conversation right now about the role of women and men in society. Whether we’re talking about the Jeffrey Epstein scandal or the viral essay "The Great Feminization" and all the commentary it sparked, it’s clear we’re in a cultural moment where we don’t quite know how to talk about men and women. Should we see men and women as interchangeable? What does equality look like when our bodies are not the same? Can we admit our neediness and maintain our dignity as women or as men? These are some of the questions I'm asking Leah Libresco Sargeant as we talk about her new book, The Dignity of Dependence.

00:00 The World is the Wrong Shape for Women
6:14 The Lie of Autonomy and How It Harms Everyone
21:09 Building a Just Society: Dismantling False Anthropology
22:52 Understanding Disability and Unemployment
25:43 Societal Examples of Dependent Communities
30:15 The Dignity of Dependence
32:51 Legacy of Care in Society
38:20 The Costs of Devaluing Vulnerability
41:14 Practices for Embracing Dependence

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• The Dignity of Dependence: A Feminist Manifesto by Leah Libresco Sargeant
• Sara Hendren’s What Can a Body Do
• Amy Julia’s interview with Sara Hendren: Who Belongs? Disability and the Built World with Sara Hendren

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Leah Libresco Sargeant is the author of several books, including The Dignity of Dependence. She runs the substack Other Feminisms, which focuses on how to advocate for women as women in a world that makes an idol of autonomy. She lives in Maryland and works in family policy in D.C.
Other Feminisms: https://www.otherfeminisms.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/leahlibresco

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S9 E4 — What if real freedom doesn’t come from more self-esteem—but from self-forgetfulness? Amy Julia Becker and author and pastor Sharon Hodde Miller explore the difference between the false self and the true self—and how thinking about ourselves less without thinking less of ourselves leads to healing, humility, and purpose.

00:00 Introduction
01:58 Defining Self and Self-Forgetfulness
07:33 Understanding the Self and Healing
09:50 Noticing Ourselves
14:12 False Self vs. True Self
16:31 The Concept of Self-Denial
19:18 The Role of the Body in Self-Understanding
22:08 Embracing Insecurity, Humility, and Limitations
29:33 The Role of Self in Parenting
31:34 Beyond Self: Purpose and Community
38:12 Practicing Humility in Daily Life

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Free of Me and Gazing at God • Books by Sharon Hodde Miller
• The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness by Tim Keller
• To Be Made Well and White Picket Fences by Amy Julia Becker
• Amy Julia's new podcast: Take the Next Step amyjuliabecker.com/step/

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Sharon Hodde Miller (PhD, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) leads Bright City Church in Durham, NC with her husband, Ike. She writes, travels around the country speaking at churches and conferences each year, and holds a PhD on women and calling. Sharon is the author of three books: Gazing at God, Free of Me, and Nice. Sharon lives in North Carolina with her husband and 3 young children. To read more of her writing, you can visit her site, SheWorships.com, and you can connect with her on Instagram at @sharonhmiller. 

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S9 E3 — What is the good life? Is it a life marked by money and success and achievement? Or a life marked by love? Author and professor Kelly Kapic joins Amy Julia Becker to rethink our obsession with productivity and self-reliance. They explore:

• Why “independence” is not the ideal
• How love—not intelligence or achievement—defines our humanity
• How receiving our limits can lead to rest, belonging, and deeper joy

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00:00 Exploring Humanity's Limits and Gifts
04:30 The Distinction Between Limits and Brokenness
09:35 Redefining Human Value Beyond Achievement
12:16 The Role of Love in Defining Humanity
19:45 The Gift of Humble Dependence in Relationships
26:03 Recognizing and Cultivating Gifts
28:21 The Good Life: Beyond Material Success and Happiness
34:33 Embracing Limits within Work, Rest, and Love
39:16 Practices for Accepting Limits and Cultivating Love

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Books: You Were Never Meant to Do It All, You're Only Human, and Embodied Hope by Kelly Kapic
• Four Thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkeman
• When Helping Hurts by Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert 
• Becoming Whole by by Brian Fikkert and Kelly Kapic
• World Happiness Report
• I Corinthians 13

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Kelly M. Kapic (PhD, King's College, University of London) is professor of theological studies at Covenant College in Lookout Mountain, Georgia, where he has taught since 2001. He is a popular speaker and the award-winning author or editor of more than fifteen books, including the devotional You Were Never Meant to Do It All, The God Who Gives, and the Christianity Today Book Award winners You're Only Human and Embodied Hope: A Theological Meditation on Pain and Suffering. Kapic has been featured in Christianity Today and The Gospel Coalition and has worked on research teams funded by the John Templeton Foundation. He also contributes to the Journal of Spiritual Formation and Soul Care and various other journals. kellykapic.com

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S9 E2 — What if disability isn’t something to fix, but a way to see God and one another more clearly? Theologian John Swinton joins Amy Julia Becker to explore how our ideas of perfection, healing, and humanity can distort—or deepen—our understanding of the good life. Together, they imagine a church and a world that welcomes every body as good, beloved, and whole. They explore:

• How culture shapes (and distorts) our perceptions of disability and beauty
• What it means for a world to be both wounded and beloved
• Why the difference between goodness and perfection matters
• How interdependence includes both beauty and a cost

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00:00 Introduction

02:54 Significance of Disability in Faith

05:50 Cultural Perceptions of Disability

08:50 The Image of God and Human Relationships

11:45 Understanding Goodness vs. Perfection

18:18 Goodness and Suffering

23:55 The Power of Naming and Identity

27:38 Relationality and the Cost of Interdependence

35:38 Resisting Culture's Distortions of the Image of God

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Christianity Today essay: “It Was Good, Not Perfect.”
• Genesis 1-3

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

John Swinton is Professor in Practical Theology and Pastoral Care and Chair in Divinity and Religious Studies at the University of Aberdeen. For more than a decade John worked as a registered mental health nurse. He also worked for a number of years as a hospital and community mental health Chaplain alongside of people with severe mental health challenges who were moving from the hospital into the community. In 2004, he founded the University of Aberdeen’s Centre for Spirituality, Health and Disability. He has published widely within the area of mental health, dementia, disability theology, spirituality and healthcare, end of life care, qualitative research and pastoral care. John is the author of a number of monographs including Finding Jesus in the Storm: The spiritual lives of people with mental health challenges. (Eerdmans 2020) which won the Aldersgate prize for outstanding interdisciplinary work within theology. His book Dementia: Living in the memories of God won the Archbishop of Canterbury’s Ramsey Prize for excellence in theological writing. 

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S9 E1 — Some people get paid to do what they love, but most don’t. How can we find meaning in everyday work that we don’t always love doing? How can we discover our purpose in life? Author Karen Swallow Prior and Amy Julia Becker explore:

• Why passion is not the same as calling
• How vocation centers on service and relationships, not just career
• Pursuing truth, goodness, and beauty in ordinary life
• How multiple callings unfold across a lifetime
• Wisdom for discerning and living into a deeper purpose

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New! Take the Next Step podcast: amyjuliabecker.com/step

00:00 Introduction

02:04 Exploring the Call to Creativity

05:39 The Myths of Passion and Work

08:55 Defining Calling and Vocation

12:32 The Relational Aspect of Calling

15:31 Pursuing Truth, Goodness, and Beauty

22:28 The Intersection of the True, the Good, and the Beautiful

26:04 The Good Life and Purpose

31:46 The Role of Suffering in Calling

36:55 Navigating New Callings and Responsibilities

40:44 Finding Meaning and Calling in Everyday Tasks

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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• You Have a Calling: Finding Your Vocation in the True, Good, and Beautiful by Karen Swallow Prior

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Karen Swallow Prior, Ph.D. is the 2025-26 Karlson Scholar at Bethel Seminary. She is a popular writer and speaker, a contributing writer for The Dispatch, and a columnist for Religion News Service. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, Vox, The Washington Post, Christianity Today, and many other places. Her most recent book is You Have a Calling: Finding Your Vocation in the True, Good, and Beautiful (Brazos 2025).

CONNECT with Karen: karenswallowprior.com

• Facebook: Karen Swallow Prior
• Instagram: karenswallowprior
• X: @KSPrior 
• Substack: @karenswallowprior
  
  

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