Relationship Matters

In this episode, Katie talks with workplace conflict expert, Jennifer Pernfuss, about how to effectively meet systems amidst conflict and crisis, by taking the balcony view. They discuss why it’s important to bring a systems lens to issues involving workplace harassment, using workplace conflict in a constructive manner, creating psychological safety, and the role of rank and privilege. 

Jennifer Pernfuss is a non-practicing lawyer with a degree in Psychology and has maintained a consulting and coaching business for 27 years focusing exclusively on the prevention and elimination of workplace discrimination, harassment and the resolution of workplace conflict and employee complaints. Trained in systems theory, process-oriented psychology and relationship systems coaching combined with her understanding of the law Jennifer develops and implements restorative processes, helps repair strained working relationships and move parties to resolution.

For over 18 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

 We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

In this episode, Katie Churchman is talking with CRR Global co-founder Faith Fuller and CRR faculty member Janet Frood about viewing Nature as an ally when we consider relationship systems intelligence. This isn’t just about considering our relationship with nature but also, thinking about how nature is a part of us and looking at what nature can teach us. Across the episode, they cover a variety of colorful topics including: nature’s ability to shift our perspective; the healing power of nature; and nature’s insight into relationship challenges.  

Janet Frood is an executive, team and leadership coach who focuses on human and relational dimensions of organizational development. After 20 years of what Janet calls her “accidental” career, she made a big leap and completely changed my own career path. In 2005, she founded Horizon Leadership and dedicated her work to supporting leaders and teams on their journey. Janet’s inspirational work focuses on the human and relational dimensions of organizational life – cultivating the talent and resourcefulness of individuals and teams so they move towards their goals together. 

Faith Fuller is co-owner and President of CRR Global. She is a psychologist and experienced trainer and coach, with over 15 years of experience in working with organizations, couples and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching, namely that all aspects of the system need to be addressed in order for effective change to occur. Her particular skill is empowering powerful, productive and joyous relationships in couples, partnerships and teams . She also has a background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution and community crisis intervention.


For over 18 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

 We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

To kick-start a brand new season of the Relationship Matters Podcast, Katie Churchman talks with Sandra Cain (Director of Curriculum and Senior Faculty at CRR Global) about crossing edges around returning to the office. 

After over a year of lock-down and remote working, many organizations are now contemplating a return to the office. However, there’s no clear road map for navigating this change and business leaders are finding that the challenges are much more complicated than originally thought. Looking through a systems lens, Sandra considers the opportunities for relationship as we cross edges and create new ways of working together during this transition into another new normal with regards to company culture, work-life balance and clear and courageous communication.

Sandra Cain coaches individuals, pairs and teams around the world. Her background includes 15 years of experience at American Express with a variety of leadership and personal development roles. In addition to leading the CRR Global Core Curriculum, she is also Associate Director of the Certification Program and on faculty for The Coaches Training Institute. Her stand for this work is that since we’re already in relationships, we might as well be conscious and intentional about who we are, what we do and how we live.


For over 18 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

 We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 4 bonus episodes, you will be hearing from 4 World workers from across the globe, who have all used ORSC tools in very different ways tools to serve their wider communities.

In this episode, Katie Churchman is talking with Yuri Morikawa about how she has brought ORSC to the world in many different ways- personally and professionally, individually and collectively. 

Over the course of this episode Yuri takes us on a journey of discovery, expressing the many ways she has used ORSC in her life: firstly, by bringing ORSC to Japan and forming CRR Japan; she then discusses working directly with relationship expert John Gottman to bring new life into her marriage; then finally Yuri explains how she actively uses the ORSC tools to help NGOs work more effectively with survivors of human trafficking or as she calls them in this episode ‘survivor leaders.’

Yuri has been an active player in the professional coaching field since 2004. She has trained and coached more than 1000 leaders and coaches globally from various backgrounds, such as corporate executives, NGO leaders, business owners, independent professionals, and dream seekers of their own.

For more information about the Kamonohashi project and the Survivors Leadership Programme, please click here.

In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 4 bonus episodes, you will be hearing from 4 Worldworkers from across the globe, who have all used ORSC tools in very different ways tools to serve their wider communities. 

In this episode, Katie Churchman is talking with Jess Sedler about she blended ORSC with performance and cabaret, in what she has categorized as her first ‘Ted Talk’ cabaret.

Jess is an ICF accredited systemic coach and facilitator in both private and not-for-profit sectors. Through her brand ‘Self and System’ she coaches leaders and teams, as well as family systems, to develop their relational intelligence and build strong and intentional communication skills. Jess originally trained as an actress which helps her work practically and holistically with clients in terms of their impact. As an actress, she worked in theatre in the UK and around Europe. She co-founded cabaret ensemble The Ruby Dolls and together, they have written, performed and produced five full-length cabaret theatre shows in four-part harmony to sold-out audiences across London, as well as critically acclaimed runs at the Edinburgh Festival. 

In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 4 bonus episodes, you will be hearing from 4 Worldworkers from across the globe, who have all used ORSC tools in very different ways tools to serve their wider communities. 

In this episode, Katie is talking with Keiko Muramatsu about how she used ORSC tools in sports. Keiko is a co-representative and faculty member of CRR Global Japan and the founder of THRIVE. Thrive sees supporting people and teams as just the starting point and believes that their transformation impacts the world beyond themselves.  Prior to her coaching career, Keiko played lacrosse for Japan in the world cup and went on to be the General Manager of Japan’s women’s U-19 team. As part of her ORSC certification journey, Keiko began using ORSC tools to coach the young lacrosse players, and also the wider systems that they were involved in. 

In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 4 bonus episode, you will be hearing from 4 Worldworkers from across the globe, who have all used ORSC tools in very different ways tools to serve their wider communities.   

In this episode, Katie Churchman is talking with Wael El Helou. Wael is a Director at “trace and the former Director of CRR Lebanon 

From managing one corporate transformation to another, Wael has led a multi-disciplinary corporate career that, combined with an eloquent passion to make a difference, has led him to co-found “trace and to dedicate his life to making people and organizations stronger than their challenges.

During this podcast, Wael discusses how he used ORSC tools to help open up a dialogue between Lebanon students and Syrian Refugees. Lebanon has the largest per capita population of Syrian refugees in the world. As of 2020, the Lebanese government estimates their country hosts 1.5 million Syrian refugees. 

In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 4 bonus episodes, you will be hearing from 4 Worldworkers’from across the globe, who have all used ORSC tools in very different ways tools to serve their wider communities. 

In this episode Marita Fridjhon is deep-diving into the 5th and final principle of RSI: Relationship Systems are in a constant state of emergence, always in the process of expressing their potential.

This principle is critical to the phenomenon referred to as the speed of change. It signifies modern society’s increasingly shorter planning horizons and the required flexibility to embrace and navigate change effectively. Successful organizations are nimble and flexible in the face of shifting tides.

Most people are averse to change because they are afraid of the unknown or of losing the status quo. Even the word “change” itself often creates resistance. With RSI, the premise is to accept change as constant, natural and inevitable and to co-create with and from it. Leaders need to move away from the traditional unfreeze-change-freeze paradigm and encourage teams to embrace change as a natural and continuous evolution necessary for survival.