Who is really winning here?

In the wake of Charlie Kirk's very gruesome and very public assassination on September 10, the debate over his legacy has played out in real time and online. The responses to his death revealing just how fractured we've become. Some called him a martyr, modern-day St. Paul. Others pointed to his history of racist and xenophobic rhetoric and wondered why Christians were valorizing someone who had said such hurtful things. Workers were fired for their social media posts. Jimmy Kimmel was suspended. Pastors faced backlash no matter what they said — or didn't say — from the pulpit.

On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy grapple with how to hold space for both mourning political violence and reckoning with Kirk's troubling legacy. We are joined by New Testament scholar Nijay Gupta, whose viral substack post, "If You Are Elevating Charlie Kirk, Consider Who You Are Crushing Underfoot," wrestled with what it means to remember controversial figures honestly — especially when half the church sees a saint and half sees a devil in disguise.

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If every generation of parents has their anxieties, the post-evangelical Millennial parent is perhaps most angsty about how to raise their kids as Christians — without all the baggage. Many parents our age — especially those who grew up evangelical — were raised in a time when Christian parenting books were ubiquitous and none more so than James Dobson's. Dobson, who died this summer, was the founder of Focus on the Family and the impact of his teachings on parenting — from discipline, to parental authority, to obedience, gender and sexuality — is hard to understate. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy examine Dobson's legacy and the broader Christian parenting empire he helped build. We're joined by author Marissa Franks Burt to discuss what made these teachings so appealing to anxious Christian parents and why so many adult children are now processing the harm.

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Doug Wilson’s name is suddenly everywhere (and his voice too). The 72-year-old pastor from Moscow, Idaho has become the go-to theologian for Christian nationalism, offering what has been framed as a more moderate, more intellectually rigorous case for a Christian nation. One where women can't vote, immigration is strictly limited to maintain a Christian majority and only Christians (of a certain kind) can hold political office.

From his base in Moscow, Wilson has built a denomination, a network of schools, and a multimedia empire. His church has doubled in size since the pandemic and his denomination has a new church plant in Washington D.C., where Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth has been spotted in attendance.

In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore who Wilson is, why he matters, and what his growing influence reveals about the kind of conservative religion gaining political power in this moment.

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Jack Jenkins is a national reporter for Religion News Service and has been reporting on Doug Wilson since 2022.

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What the holy heck is happening at Hillsong?

The last six weeks have seen a seesaw of scandalous revelations between Hillsong U.S. and Hillsong Australia. The resignation of global senior pastor Brian Houston after revelations of sexual indiscretion. The discovery of allegations of rape by a junior staffer against a former pastor. The departure of several prominent U.S. pastors and Hillsong affiliated churches. A not-so-flattering documentary. And then the leaked report of the Hillsong NYC investigation, which painted a picture of a church leadership rife with abuse, sexual misconduct and secrecy.

This week, Katelyn and Roxy break down the Hillsong breakdown — and explore some of the systemic issues that have seemed to haunt the church from the beginning. Roxy gives a recap of her reporting on Hillsong from the last few years — beginning with the firing of Carl Lentz, hype-priest and Justin Bieber confidante, for his “tequila-drenched love affair.”

And we dig into some questions core to Katelyn's upcoming book on Christian celebrities. Including of course, just how deep can a pastor's V-neck go?

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When the clock keeps ticking, you gotta get picking ... a sperm donor, that is.

Ok, but really, as more and more women are single into their late thirties and early forties, the option to have a child through in vitro fertilization becomes a very live question. As much as forty may be the new twenty, the biological timeline for many women still looms large. If you're someone who wants to bear children, waiting for the right partner may feel like a dead end. Or, as our guest today puts it, that's a lot of pressure for a first date. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk to a friend who made the decision to put dating on hold and become a mother on her own. We discuss process, finances, a bit of theology and a lot of love.

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Let's get a drink sometime!

New York's a drinking town. Happy hours. Boozy brunches. Martinis and oysters. The city's social life revolves around artisan cocktails and bubbly toasts and late night dive bars. And while the pandemic may have put a screeching halt to the social side of that life, it didn't stop the flow of booze. Restaurants offered craft cocktails to go, the sidewalks became open carry and delivery drinks were an app away. Drinking went from social to solo and it was during that time that both Katelyn and Roxy began to wonder if all this imbibing was really OK.

On this episode, we examine our relationships with alcohol and the changes we've made since the pandemic. We're joined by Sarah Bessey — a self-described "evangelist" for the sober life — who gave up drinking a few years ago and hasn't looked back since.

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From Jesus Freak to freaked out.

In this episode, we grapple with "the e-word" and why we struggle to claim the evangelical label. Having grown up fully immersed in that culture and going on to dedicate much of our careers to the movement, we examine our disillusionment and disappointment with its trajectory — and where we go next.

The past five years revealed fractures and hypocrisies that betrayed so much of what we — and a generation of millennial Christians — grew up being taught. Now we wonder: Is evangelicalism worth saving?

Plus: We go on an adventure to Washington Square Park to hear what some of our New York City neighbors think about the word "evangelical."

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This episode, Katelyn and Roxy are joined by the GOAT, the legend who arguably started the spiritual podcasting genre, the longtime host of On Being, Krista Tippett. This wide-ranging conversation lingers on some of the more salient questions of our time: What is the role of faith in a technological era? Does religion only divide? How can spiritual practices make a difference in a world that needs action?

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From 2024

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Founded in 2007 as a "learning community that mobilizes Christians to advance the common good," Q was part of a broader movement of Christian cultural engagement in the mid-aughts and early teens. Much of it influenced by the late Tim Keller.

Today, Q — now THINQ Media — feels emblematic of the broader tensions within evangelicalism around how Christians should navigate what they see as an increasingly hostile culture. The "winsome" approach is increasingly seen as naive, cultural engagement has given way to culture war rhetoric, and terms like "negative world" have entered the evangelical vocabulary. On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy share memories of Q conferences over the years (Portland! Los Angeles! Boston! DC! ... and, finally, Nashville). We examine its decided shift rightward and mourn an importance space that feels lost. We are joined by Collin Hansen, editor-in-chief of The Gospel Coalition and author of a Tim Keller biography, who offers insight into the fractures among Keller's acolytes and the growing pushback against his approach. 

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First, we set the scene with our our most movie-worthy post-breakup moments — we're talking ice cream binging, sad song belting, pillow weeping melt downs. Next up, we get into your break-up stories. It's our long-awaited break-up episode and you, dear listeners, delivered. You sent in your sad stories, you sent in your sob stories, you sent in your weird stories and you sent in your evangelical stories. In this break-up bonanza, Katelyn and Roxy dissect the anatomy of a break-up — what makes for a good one and what makes for a bad one (no splitting up over text!). And we share our own tales of lost love — and also of dodging bullets.

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