What if the next billion-dollar startup isn’t built by 1,000 employees—but by 30, powered by AI? In this episode of The Burnouts, Bumble founder and CEO Whitney Wolfe Herd sits down with Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni to talk about building lean, trusting your gut, burning out, and why she believes AI will totally reshape how companies scale.

Whitney opens up about hiring mistakes that nearly broke Bumble, the myth of hustle culture, why listening to “grown-ups in suits” set her back, and how legacy tech is holding companies hostage. She shares her evolved vision for Bumble, her personal burnout recovery, and why she now swears by smaller teams, smarter tech, and protecting your energy like it’s cash.

Also: surprise-and-delight growth hacks, ego death, and what she really thinks about ROI-driven marketing.

Chapters
1:02 – She built Bumble. But at what cost?
5:11 – Why hiring “adults in suits” backfired
8:42 – Scaling smart: fewer people, better results
13:08 – AI, apps, and the future of building
16:30 – Burnout, ego death, and coming back stronger
22:14 – Bumble’s early growth hacks (inflatable bees, anyone?)
27:49 – Friendship-first is the next dating revolution
30:45 – Mentorship, motherhood & knowing when to say no

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About The Burnouts
As former Stanford roommates and now business partners, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni share their experience as startup founders and the chaos of building something new—covering everything from pitching VCs to maintaining friendships, decoding financial literacy, and finding power in female-driven storytelling. With candid conversations and top guests (like Kris Jenner and Sara Blakely), The Burnouts is your go-to for smart, hilarious, and sometimes chaotic advice on how to build your career on your own terms.