
Sign up to save your podcasts
Or


Chef Martin Oswald and I filmed this live from two different continents (he was in Austria, I was in the U.S.) and we spent over an hour fighting technical issues before we actually got the thing to work. So if you watched live and stuck around through all of that, thank you. Genuinely.
Once we got going, we covered three things. The dirty dozen. The clean 15. And then a conversation Martin wanted to have about what he calls “beyond organic,” which turned out to be the part I found most interesting. The video is above if you want to watch us actually cook. What is below is everything we talked about, organized so it is easier to use.
The Dirty Dozen
The Environmental Working Group publishes an annual dirty dozen list, which identifies the twelve produce items most contaminated with pesticide residues. Research consistently shows that pesticide exposure, even at low chronic levels, is associated with hormonal disruption, metabolic dysfunction, and increased inflammation. For anyone focused on metabolic health, this is not a footnote.
The current U.S. dirty dozen includes strawberries, spinach, kale, grapes, peaches, pears, nectarines, bell peppers, cherries, blueberries, green beans, and apples. These are the items where buying organic makes the biggest practical difference, and where Martin and I both agree you should not compromise if budget allows.
One thing worth knowing is that the dirty dozen varies by region. What is highly contaminated in Colorado may not match what is sprayed heaviest in California, and international listeners will have their own regional variation to consider. The EWG list at ewg.org is updated each year and is a reliable starting point, but it reflects primarily U.S. data.
Potatoes deserve a special mention because people often assume that anything growing underground is somehow protected. Martin explained pesticides applied at the soil surface do penetrate down, and the bugs that target root vegetables are prolific. Conventional potatoes are consistently among the more contaminated options, so organic matters there too.
During the live, Martin put together what he called a Dirty Dozen Salad. It is a spring arugula base with blueberries, raspberries, and roasted pistachios and almonds, topped with quinoa he had seasoned during cooking with clove, cinnamon, black pepper, and a little chili. The dressing was something I want to make every week. Strawberries, garlic, yogurt (plant-based works fine), a splash of vinegar, lemon zest, lemon juice, and optional mustard and basil, all pureed into a vivid pink dressing. I know garlic and strawberry sounds counterintuitive. I had the same reaction. Martin’s point is that garlic works beautifully with greens in a Caesar, so when you think of it as dressing the greens rather than pairing with the strawberries, it clicks. His one technique rule is to dress only about two-thirds of your greens, never the full amount. Over-dressing weighs the salad down and makes it go soggy fast.
Click here for the recipe.
The Clean 15
On the other end of the spectrum, the clean 15 are the items least contaminated with pesticide residues. These are produce with thick skins, natural pest resistance, or growing conditions that make heavy spraying unnecessary. Buying conventional versions of these is a reasonable, evidence-informed way to save money and redirect it toward the dirty dozen.
The current clean 15 includes avocados, sweet corn, pineapple, onions, papaya, sweet peas, asparagus, honeydew melon, kiwi, cabbage, mushrooms, mango, sweet potatoes, watermelon, and carrots.
Martin added some nuance here that I found useful. Radicchio and bitter greens generally have some of the lowest contamination levels of any produce you will find, not because they are grown organically but because insects do not want them. Bitter compounds are a natural defense mechanism. Martin said it simply during the session: “Bitter is better.” These are also some of the most potent liver-supportive foods available, and in his view, underused by people who could benefit most from them.
White asparagus is worth a specific note. In Austria, it is grown completely covered by mounded soil to protect it from light, which also means it is naturally shielded during growing. As a result, it tends to have very low contamination even in conventional form. Green asparagus is equally good. Both are clean 15 options that are also nutritionally strong.
For the Clean 15 Salad, Martin demonstrated a technique I am now going to use regularly. He cut cabbage, carrots, asparagus, and English peas into small, even pieces, then steamed them in a covered pot with just a splash of water for three to four minutes. After steaming, he immediately transferred them to cold water to stop the cooking and preserve the color. He then dressed them with whole grain mustard, flat-leaf parsley, and an avocado-based dressing he had prepared with sesame, ginger, soy, miso, rice vinegar, and lime juice. In lieu of salt, he added a small balsamic drizzle for acidity. His philosophy is to cook very low on sodium and use acids to compensate, whether lemon, lime, balsamic, or vinegar. It is a habit that makes food taste more complex, not less satisfying.
For anyone with a sensitive digestive system, there is no need to eat these vegetables crunchy. Steaming them soft, what Martin called “shankos” (a culinary term from therapeutic kitchen work developed for elderly patients decades ago), retains meaningful nutrition while making the food far easier to digest. If raw and crunchy cruciferous vegetables cause gas or discomfort, softer steaming is the right call. You still get the benefit.
Click here for the recipe.
Beyond Organic
This is where the conversation went in a direction I did not anticipate, and it is the part I keep thinking about.
Martin recently sat down with Professor Harald Mange, a researcher based in Graz, Austria, who studies childhood obesity and unadulterated food systems. Their conversation led Martin to describe a third tier of food quality, something that sits above organic certification in terms of nutritional density.
The concept centers on the alpine farming and foraging tradition. Martin pointed out that Switzerland consistently produces some of the longest-lived populations in the world, with average lifespans comparable to Japan and higher than Italy. When he and Professor Mange pulled on that thread, what kept coming up was not a single food or supplement but the food environment itself. Foraged wild berries from forests. Bitter greens growing in rocky soil. Cattle grazing on pristine alpine grasses with no commercial feed in sight. People physically exposed to cold and heat as a byproduct of living and working outdoors rather than as a wellness intervention.
The nutritional argument is compelling. Plants that grow in harsh conditions (cold temperatures, poor soil, exposure to pests without chemical protection) respond by producing significantly higher concentrations of protective phytocompounds. These are the antioxidants and secondary metabolites that research increasingly connects to cancer protection, cardiovascular health, and metabolic function. A blueberry harvested from a forest hillside in Austria and a conventionally grown blueberry in a covered greenhouse may look identical. They are not the same food.
The practical takeaway for most of us is the farmer’s market, and Martin was clear about how to approach it. Not every farmer’s market vendor is organic, and not every label that says organic is fully what it claims. His parents are farmers, and they were honest with him that growing everything organic at scale is genuinely difficult. What the farmer’s market does offer, particularly from smaller operations with a limited number of crops, is a higher likelihood of fresher, less-processed, more nutritionally intact food. Talk to the vendors. Ask what they grow and how. Look for the unusual items, the strange roots, the foraged greens, the heirloom varieties. That is where the density is.
Martin’s example from his own kitchen in Austria made this concrete. A neighbor grows Jerusalem artichokes (sunchokes) that come back year after year with no spraying needed because the plant is essentially a weed. They are harvested locally, handled minimally, and eaten seasonally. Sunchokes contain inulin, a prebiotic fiber that feeds beneficial gut bacteria and produces short-chain fatty acids that support blood sugar regulation and reduce inflammation. Martin also freezes porcini mushrooms and wild huckleberries at peak season rather than preserving them in sugar. His freezer is his pantry for winter. The goal is produce harvested at its nutritional peak and stored without adulteration, not produce engineered to last three weeks in a refrigerated shipping container.
A Note on Washing
Wash everything, every time, regardless of whether it is organic. Martin’s method of choice is plain water, which he has used consistently for years. If you want to go further, a dilute baking soda solution is the most evidence-informed option for reducing pesticide residues on surface-washed produce. Vinegar and water will help reduce mold and surface bacteria, particularly on items like blueberries that develop mold quickly. Both work. Neither is a substitute for buying organic on the dirty dozen in the first place.
One practical tip Martin shared is to only wash what you are about to use. Storing produce wet accelerates breakdown and mold. Wash as needed, not in bulk ahead of time.
His chef trick for tired greens is worth keeping. Arugula or spinach that has dried out over a few days can be revived by soaking in warm water (around 100 degrees Fahrenheit) for about three minutes. It comes back crisp. Cold water will not have the same effect.
Quick Reference
Always buy organic (Dirty Dozen) -- strawberries, spinach, kale, grapes, peaches, pears, nectarines, bell peppers, cherries, blueberries, green beans, apples. Add potatoes to your personal list.
Safe to buy conventional (Clean 15) -- avocados, sweet corn, pineapple, onions, papaya, sweet peas, asparagus, honeydew melon, kiwi, cabbage, mushrooms, mango, sweet potatoes, watermelon, carrots. Bitter greens like radicchio are also low-risk.
Washing -- plain cold water works for most situations. Baking soda diluted in water is the best option for reducing pesticide residue on produce you could not buy organic. Vinegar and water extends the shelf life of mold-prone berries.
Reviving tired greens -- soak in warm water (around 100 degrees Fahrenheit) for three minutes.
Freezer as pantry -- buy organic or foraged produce at peak season and freeze it. Frozen at peak is nutritionally superior to fresh produce that has been shipped and stored for weeks.
For sensitive digestion -- steam vegetables soft rather than eating them raw or crunchy. You preserve meaningful nutrition and make it far more digestible.
Quinoa technique -- dry-toast the quinoa in a pot for three to five minutes before adding spices and water. It brings out a nuttiness and gives you more control over the texture. Season during cooking rather than after.
Dressing rule -- dress no more than two-thirds of the greens in a salad. Over-dressed salad becomes soggy and heavy within minutes.
Acidity instead of sodium -- balsamic drizzle, lemon juice, lime juice, and good vinegar can replace most of the salt in a dish while adding complexity.
Farmer’s market strategy -- go to smaller vendors with fewer crops. Talk to them. Look for the unusual roots, foraged items, and seasonal specialties. These are most likely to approximate the nutritional density of truly unadulterated food.
Check your region’s list -- ewg.org publishes an updated dirty dozen and clean 15 each year. The U.S. list is the most widely referenced, but regional contamination data varies. Use it as a baseline and adjust for where your food is grown.
Join the Habit Healers Community
If you want to cook this way every week alongside Chef Martin and me, this is exactly the kind of work we do inside the Habit Healers Community on Skool. Martin brings his professional kitchen into our sessions with recipes, techniques, and walkthroughs built specifically around the science of metabolic health. I bring the clinical framework. Every week, we take what we know and turn it into something you can actually do at dinner tonight.
We cook, we talk, we troubleshoot the real obstacles (time, budget, picky families, and all of it). If you are ready to build a kitchen practice that works for your metabolic health long-term, come join us.
Join the Habit Healers Community.
References
Environmental Working Group. Dirty Dozen and Clean Fifteen. ewg.org. Updated annually.
By Laurie Marbas, MD, MBA4.7
205205 ratings
Chef Martin Oswald and I filmed this live from two different continents (he was in Austria, I was in the U.S.) and we spent over an hour fighting technical issues before we actually got the thing to work. So if you watched live and stuck around through all of that, thank you. Genuinely.
Once we got going, we covered three things. The dirty dozen. The clean 15. And then a conversation Martin wanted to have about what he calls “beyond organic,” which turned out to be the part I found most interesting. The video is above if you want to watch us actually cook. What is below is everything we talked about, organized so it is easier to use.
The Dirty Dozen
The Environmental Working Group publishes an annual dirty dozen list, which identifies the twelve produce items most contaminated with pesticide residues. Research consistently shows that pesticide exposure, even at low chronic levels, is associated with hormonal disruption, metabolic dysfunction, and increased inflammation. For anyone focused on metabolic health, this is not a footnote.
The current U.S. dirty dozen includes strawberries, spinach, kale, grapes, peaches, pears, nectarines, bell peppers, cherries, blueberries, green beans, and apples. These are the items where buying organic makes the biggest practical difference, and where Martin and I both agree you should not compromise if budget allows.
One thing worth knowing is that the dirty dozen varies by region. What is highly contaminated in Colorado may not match what is sprayed heaviest in California, and international listeners will have their own regional variation to consider. The EWG list at ewg.org is updated each year and is a reliable starting point, but it reflects primarily U.S. data.
Potatoes deserve a special mention because people often assume that anything growing underground is somehow protected. Martin explained pesticides applied at the soil surface do penetrate down, and the bugs that target root vegetables are prolific. Conventional potatoes are consistently among the more contaminated options, so organic matters there too.
During the live, Martin put together what he called a Dirty Dozen Salad. It is a spring arugula base with blueberries, raspberries, and roasted pistachios and almonds, topped with quinoa he had seasoned during cooking with clove, cinnamon, black pepper, and a little chili. The dressing was something I want to make every week. Strawberries, garlic, yogurt (plant-based works fine), a splash of vinegar, lemon zest, lemon juice, and optional mustard and basil, all pureed into a vivid pink dressing. I know garlic and strawberry sounds counterintuitive. I had the same reaction. Martin’s point is that garlic works beautifully with greens in a Caesar, so when you think of it as dressing the greens rather than pairing with the strawberries, it clicks. His one technique rule is to dress only about two-thirds of your greens, never the full amount. Over-dressing weighs the salad down and makes it go soggy fast.
Click here for the recipe.
The Clean 15
On the other end of the spectrum, the clean 15 are the items least contaminated with pesticide residues. These are produce with thick skins, natural pest resistance, or growing conditions that make heavy spraying unnecessary. Buying conventional versions of these is a reasonable, evidence-informed way to save money and redirect it toward the dirty dozen.
The current clean 15 includes avocados, sweet corn, pineapple, onions, papaya, sweet peas, asparagus, honeydew melon, kiwi, cabbage, mushrooms, mango, sweet potatoes, watermelon, and carrots.
Martin added some nuance here that I found useful. Radicchio and bitter greens generally have some of the lowest contamination levels of any produce you will find, not because they are grown organically but because insects do not want them. Bitter compounds are a natural defense mechanism. Martin said it simply during the session: “Bitter is better.” These are also some of the most potent liver-supportive foods available, and in his view, underused by people who could benefit most from them.
White asparagus is worth a specific note. In Austria, it is grown completely covered by mounded soil to protect it from light, which also means it is naturally shielded during growing. As a result, it tends to have very low contamination even in conventional form. Green asparagus is equally good. Both are clean 15 options that are also nutritionally strong.
For the Clean 15 Salad, Martin demonstrated a technique I am now going to use regularly. He cut cabbage, carrots, asparagus, and English peas into small, even pieces, then steamed them in a covered pot with just a splash of water for three to four minutes. After steaming, he immediately transferred them to cold water to stop the cooking and preserve the color. He then dressed them with whole grain mustard, flat-leaf parsley, and an avocado-based dressing he had prepared with sesame, ginger, soy, miso, rice vinegar, and lime juice. In lieu of salt, he added a small balsamic drizzle for acidity. His philosophy is to cook very low on sodium and use acids to compensate, whether lemon, lime, balsamic, or vinegar. It is a habit that makes food taste more complex, not less satisfying.
For anyone with a sensitive digestive system, there is no need to eat these vegetables crunchy. Steaming them soft, what Martin called “shankos” (a culinary term from therapeutic kitchen work developed for elderly patients decades ago), retains meaningful nutrition while making the food far easier to digest. If raw and crunchy cruciferous vegetables cause gas or discomfort, softer steaming is the right call. You still get the benefit.
Click here for the recipe.
Beyond Organic
This is where the conversation went in a direction I did not anticipate, and it is the part I keep thinking about.
Martin recently sat down with Professor Harald Mange, a researcher based in Graz, Austria, who studies childhood obesity and unadulterated food systems. Their conversation led Martin to describe a third tier of food quality, something that sits above organic certification in terms of nutritional density.
The concept centers on the alpine farming and foraging tradition. Martin pointed out that Switzerland consistently produces some of the longest-lived populations in the world, with average lifespans comparable to Japan and higher than Italy. When he and Professor Mange pulled on that thread, what kept coming up was not a single food or supplement but the food environment itself. Foraged wild berries from forests. Bitter greens growing in rocky soil. Cattle grazing on pristine alpine grasses with no commercial feed in sight. People physically exposed to cold and heat as a byproduct of living and working outdoors rather than as a wellness intervention.
The nutritional argument is compelling. Plants that grow in harsh conditions (cold temperatures, poor soil, exposure to pests without chemical protection) respond by producing significantly higher concentrations of protective phytocompounds. These are the antioxidants and secondary metabolites that research increasingly connects to cancer protection, cardiovascular health, and metabolic function. A blueberry harvested from a forest hillside in Austria and a conventionally grown blueberry in a covered greenhouse may look identical. They are not the same food.
The practical takeaway for most of us is the farmer’s market, and Martin was clear about how to approach it. Not every farmer’s market vendor is organic, and not every label that says organic is fully what it claims. His parents are farmers, and they were honest with him that growing everything organic at scale is genuinely difficult. What the farmer’s market does offer, particularly from smaller operations with a limited number of crops, is a higher likelihood of fresher, less-processed, more nutritionally intact food. Talk to the vendors. Ask what they grow and how. Look for the unusual items, the strange roots, the foraged greens, the heirloom varieties. That is where the density is.
Martin’s example from his own kitchen in Austria made this concrete. A neighbor grows Jerusalem artichokes (sunchokes) that come back year after year with no spraying needed because the plant is essentially a weed. They are harvested locally, handled minimally, and eaten seasonally. Sunchokes contain inulin, a prebiotic fiber that feeds beneficial gut bacteria and produces short-chain fatty acids that support blood sugar regulation and reduce inflammation. Martin also freezes porcini mushrooms and wild huckleberries at peak season rather than preserving them in sugar. His freezer is his pantry for winter. The goal is produce harvested at its nutritional peak and stored without adulteration, not produce engineered to last three weeks in a refrigerated shipping container.
A Note on Washing
Wash everything, every time, regardless of whether it is organic. Martin’s method of choice is plain water, which he has used consistently for years. If you want to go further, a dilute baking soda solution is the most evidence-informed option for reducing pesticide residues on surface-washed produce. Vinegar and water will help reduce mold and surface bacteria, particularly on items like blueberries that develop mold quickly. Both work. Neither is a substitute for buying organic on the dirty dozen in the first place.
One practical tip Martin shared is to only wash what you are about to use. Storing produce wet accelerates breakdown and mold. Wash as needed, not in bulk ahead of time.
His chef trick for tired greens is worth keeping. Arugula or spinach that has dried out over a few days can be revived by soaking in warm water (around 100 degrees Fahrenheit) for about three minutes. It comes back crisp. Cold water will not have the same effect.
Quick Reference
Always buy organic (Dirty Dozen) -- strawberries, spinach, kale, grapes, peaches, pears, nectarines, bell peppers, cherries, blueberries, green beans, apples. Add potatoes to your personal list.
Safe to buy conventional (Clean 15) -- avocados, sweet corn, pineapple, onions, papaya, sweet peas, asparagus, honeydew melon, kiwi, cabbage, mushrooms, mango, sweet potatoes, watermelon, carrots. Bitter greens like radicchio are also low-risk.
Washing -- plain cold water works for most situations. Baking soda diluted in water is the best option for reducing pesticide residue on produce you could not buy organic. Vinegar and water extends the shelf life of mold-prone berries.
Reviving tired greens -- soak in warm water (around 100 degrees Fahrenheit) for three minutes.
Freezer as pantry -- buy organic or foraged produce at peak season and freeze it. Frozen at peak is nutritionally superior to fresh produce that has been shipped and stored for weeks.
For sensitive digestion -- steam vegetables soft rather than eating them raw or crunchy. You preserve meaningful nutrition and make it far more digestible.
Quinoa technique -- dry-toast the quinoa in a pot for three to five minutes before adding spices and water. It brings out a nuttiness and gives you more control over the texture. Season during cooking rather than after.
Dressing rule -- dress no more than two-thirds of the greens in a salad. Over-dressed salad becomes soggy and heavy within minutes.
Acidity instead of sodium -- balsamic drizzle, lemon juice, lime juice, and good vinegar can replace most of the salt in a dish while adding complexity.
Farmer’s market strategy -- go to smaller vendors with fewer crops. Talk to them. Look for the unusual roots, foraged items, and seasonal specialties. These are most likely to approximate the nutritional density of truly unadulterated food.
Check your region’s list -- ewg.org publishes an updated dirty dozen and clean 15 each year. The U.S. list is the most widely referenced, but regional contamination data varies. Use it as a baseline and adjust for where your food is grown.
Join the Habit Healers Community
If you want to cook this way every week alongside Chef Martin and me, this is exactly the kind of work we do inside the Habit Healers Community on Skool. Martin brings his professional kitchen into our sessions with recipes, techniques, and walkthroughs built specifically around the science of metabolic health. I bring the clinical framework. Every week, we take what we know and turn it into something you can actually do at dinner tonight.
We cook, we talk, we troubleshoot the real obstacles (time, budget, picky families, and all of it). If you are ready to build a kitchen practice that works for your metabolic health long-term, come join us.
Join the Habit Healers Community.
References
Environmental Working Group. Dirty Dozen and Clean Fifteen. ewg.org. Updated annually.

11,904 Listeners

7,293 Listeners

1,086 Listeners

3,471 Listeners

875 Listeners

490 Listeners

3,415 Listeners

2,638 Listeners

3,470 Listeners

9,194 Listeners

8,043 Listeners

150 Listeners

2,322 Listeners

1,246 Listeners

70 Listeners