The Dental Marketer

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Hey guys, welcome to this week's MMM! This week, we're getting back to SEO (Search Engine Optimization), covering both on-page and off-page strategies, with our expert guest, Brandie Lamprou! We explore the fundamentals of SEO, including the importance of word count, choosing the right keyword focus, utilizing internal linking effectively, crafting compelling meta descriptions, and creating SEO-friendly titles. Whether you're a beginner looking to start your SEO journey or a seasoned practice owner seeking to refine your strategies, this episode will help you start on the right foot with a strong SEO plan, improving your website's visibility in search engine results!

Jump into this episode with Brandie Lamprou to get up to speed on tried and true SEO strategies!

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You can reach out to Brandie Lamprou here:

Website: https://gargle.com/

Email: [email protected]

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Other Mentions and Links:

Yelp

Yellow Pages

Google My Business

SERP - Search Engine Results Page

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If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:

My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/

The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

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Michael: Hey Brandy. So talk to us about s e o. How can we utilize this, or what advice, suggestions, or methods can you give us that will help actually attract new patients through s e o?

Brandie: S e o has been around for at least 22, 23 years and his. It changed a lot over the years, but there are certain pieces of SEO o foundational components of SEO that are still very applicable today.

Foundational, s e o is not dead, even with all of the local pack and maps and using SER and using other tools. Foundational seo, which is on page seo. An off page s e o is still very, very relevant and very necessary in every dental practice website. And so, I think I just wanna touch on those components and make sure that people understand how SEO O works.

In the search engines as well as what OnPage and off-page s e o technically is. Uh, I know it can kind of seem intimidating, but it is just a series of components that we wanna make sure are visible and implemented on every page of a dental website as well as the external pieces On the internet and being found more consistently in the organic search positioning on Google.

So when you're looking at Google, the search results are kind of broken out into chunks for you. The very first thing you normally see is all of your pay-per clicks and your ads. For people who are running keyword, Google Ads. The next section is generally your local pack or your Google Maps, which come up, um, with the map next to it.

And that has your positioning there is based on, uh, not only content of your Google My Business, the verification of your Google My Business, but also the consistency of your listings on the internet. Consistently making sure your Google My Business profiles are updated with your hours and services.

so that is your local pack, and then you have your organic search results, and that's really where SEO comes in. Traditional foundational SEO comes in in those organic search positions. So. four on page s e o. Every single page of a dental website that you, you are SEOing for, needs to have about 650 to 1200 words.

So 650 is your minimum word count for a good nice Google crawl to index that keyword. Focus for the page and Raise you in your positioning. So you do wanna have a minimum of 650 words. You also, obviously those words have a keyword focus, so you determine that when you're writing the content for an s e o page and that keyword content, the keyword itself will be present in the title of the page, usually the URL of the page, and within the text body.

But the foundational s e o components have to do with your S e O title and your meta description. The SEO title is generally the title of the page. And so when you do go onto Google and you do a query the, and your organic search results come up, that very first line that you see in bold on Google, that is your SEO title, so it's very important to.

Make sure that that title contains your keyword focus. You also want that keyword present in the first paragraph of the page, but then also in the meta description on the page, meta descriptions are very, very important because meta descriptions tell Google what that page is really about. It's also what's crawled to get the, uh, snippets that are featured on Google, so that, uh, SEO title, your meta description, having the keyword focus clearly presented in the backend of the website.

Those are all key components to foundational, s e o and getting you index for the keyword you are going for on that particular page. those are really the, the, uh, foundational pieces of on-page s e o. You also wanna do some internal linking, which means you're taking keywords from other places within your website and you're linking them to the page.

You're SEOing so that there's internal linking, going back and forth out of your page to another page of the website and from another page of the website into the page. It keeps people also on your website longer. Which helps, helps as far as your bounce rates and things like that, but it also shows Google that you have more than just this one page, on this particular topic.

When you're linking it to another page that mentions that topic that content strategy of internal linking becomes much easier as you get into what's called clustered content for SEO purposes, and that's when you have multiple pages. Focusing on a search term keyword focus. Example being dental implants.

The first page that we create is dental implants, but then we may create five, six other pages that relate in some way to the core page of dental implants, such as, Make a page for all on fours implants that then links back to your core implant page. Make a page for denture supported implants.

link back to your dental implant page so that you end up with clustered content. And that's really a great content management strategy for showing Google that your site is a real resource for dental implants. Now with all these keywords, You always want to, uh, add your local tag to it.

So you want, you know what, d as dentists, what we're all looking for is local targeted traffic. So you want to add your city name before and after your keyword or within your keyword phrase. That's gonna really help you get, be found using the geolocator that, that Google has, as well as the content on your website, SEO Together.

Michael: Okay. Gotcha. Okay. That's interesting. Okay, so this is all on page, right?

Brandie: That's all on page, yeah. Okay. Okay. I know it's just one step. So the other, uh, side of that is your off page seo. That's everything that happens on the internet outside of your website. So one of the best strategies that you can, uh, implement when it comes to that is, Backlink strategy.

we, as a part of our gargle s e o product, we actually do order backlinks based on the keyword that we're focusing on for our clients. Which means that a blog is written on another applicable or relatable website that links back to our client's website as a resource for that particular keyword.

So the more. External links you have on the internet pointing to your website that actually makes Google, let's Google know that you have authority or you have knowledge and, and are a legitimate resource for that keyword term. and you want them to be reputable websites that are linking to you because there is a way of scoring the domain authority from the outside website into your website as far as relevance on the topic.

So that is called backlinking. And then we also utilize off page SEO with referrers. So when you do belong to directories, let's use directories as an external link or refer, uh, back to you when you are in a health grades or even Yelp, even um, you know, local directories, yellow pages, all of those things.

Anytime you have a link on those profiles that are pointing back to your website, that is helping you get those back links and get refers that point to your website. So the more links that you have going into your website, the better off you're gonna be in your long-term s e O strategy. At your off page seo.

Michael: Okay. Okay, so that's off page seo. Is there another thing for off-page SEO or those two things? Well, you know,

Brandie: going back again to like Google My Biz, your Google My Business profiles and the local pack, like all of those are still off page because they're outside of the realm of your website, but they definitely work.

For your overall S E O, when the Google algorithm is crawling, it's looking for consistency in all of those pieces.

Michael: Gotcha. Now, if the on page is not on point, but you're str striving to make like the back linking work, right? And all that stuff, Are we gonna clash here? Is there gonna be like a thing or,

Brandie: yeah.

on page that, that foundational fundamental, s e o of, you know, your word count and representing your keyword focus clearly, your meta description, all of that stuff. If that is not on point, anything else you're doing is not gonna work. Mm-hmm. So you really need to start there. You really need to start there.

There are people that have the ability to, uh, rank quite high on local pack just by finessing their Google My Business and their other listings on the internet. But with, without consistent posting to that Google my business, you end up losing some traction. So what you really do want is, a nice s e o strategy that combines those components.

Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So first and foremost, if we're, if listeners listening, they're like, okay, you know what I mean? I need to, I'm on number 10 or page seven or something. First. Look into the on page, right? Yes. Fix that as much as possible. Get it honed in, and then the off page is where we can start working on, yes.

Brandie: Yes. I would always start at the core, your website is your 24 7 calling card, so. Even s e o aside, if your website isn't dialed in and you're not focusing on that presence and giving it some love, And making it really a part of your brand and making your website work for you, not you work for your website.

That would be step one. Step two is then focusing on your content, on your on-page SEO specifically. Making sure you just have that little checklist, the fundamentals, you know, your word count, your keyword, focus your s e o title, your meta description, and internal linking. Those five pieces Are gonna dial you in to where you'll be able to grow your website and not cannibalize on search terms and internally link and get more opportunities for back linking if you're focusing on that on page, in my opinion.

Michael: Nice, nice. Awesome, Brandy, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you directly?

Brandie: You can go to gargle.com we have a demo form there that you can fill out and it'll get to me Also, my email address is brandy, b r a n d i e, dot LoPro, l a m p r o u gargle.com, shoot me an email and hopefully I can answer your question.

Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below so you can reach out to Brandy.

And Brandy. Thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode.

Brandie: Thank you.

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Eric is giving all of our listeners a 30 Day Free Trial! Just type in the coupon code "TDM" at the end of onboarding and you'll receive this exclusive offer!

Click this link to get started! https://www.joinordo.com/

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Guest: Eric AppelsiesBusiness Name: OrdoCheck out Eric's Media:‍

Website: https://www.joinordo.com/

Email: [email protected]

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Other Mentions and Links:

HPSP Scholarship

Bank of America

Wells Fargo

Invisalign

Henry Schein

Darby

Net 32

Open Dental

Google Ads

Positioning - Jack Trout and Al Ries

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Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer

Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society

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My Key Takeaways:

• Acquiring an already established practice can be tough when it comes to updating systems and processes!
• When hiring, be sure to utilize your internal team members and their connections.
• Try to hone in on 1 or 2 marketing tactics rather than all of them at once.
• Always have great communication and expectations set with your marketing team.
• Having an identifier on your phone calls for new and existing patients will streamline your patient acquisition.
• When ground marketing, make sure you attend the events your target demographic will be at!

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Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]

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p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guest, Dr. Eric Apsey. Eric, how's it going,

Eric: man? Doing well. How are you doing? Pretty

Michael: good. Pretty good. If you don't mind me asking,

Eric: where are you located? I am in Denver, actually, in like the suburbs.

Michael: Okay, nice, nice. It's gonna be good weather out there for here for like the rest of the

Eric: summer or?

Yeah, I think we've heard it's supposed to be, I've read something that was supposed to be hot, but also pretty wet, so it's been a weird, we actually had a pretty, our winters are normally pretty mild. I've been out here like maybe five, six years. This last winter was a rougher winter in terms of snow, and it's been a little bit yeah, it's been a little bit wetter of a spring too than normal, which, you know, like everyone says, you know, you could always use rain, right?

I feel like that's what everyone always says, but yeah, I mean, it's normally. Pretty dry here, so it's not a bad thing. So, yeah.

Michael: Oh, okay, man. Awesome. So let's jump into it. Let's, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions, all right. Mainly based off of your marketing. So number one, could you briefly introduce your dental practice and the demographic you primarily

Eric: serve?

Yeah, so I actually, I have two dental practices in Denver. One's in like the kind of south metro area. One's in like the North Metro area, so maybe 30 miles or so apart. Both of them are de Novo offices. The one down south opened in 2017, the one up north in 2019. And the demographics that we primarily serve at the one down south it's a little bit more of an established community.

So we see. More adults, empty nesters, not quite as many children. And then up at the north location that's more of a growing and emerging kind of area. Lots of new builds and stuff like that. So we're seeing a lot of younger families there too. So we tend, we tend to see more kids in kind of family age at that location.

How

Michael: far apart are they normally?

Eric: Like those practices? Yeah, about thir, about 30 miles. So, I mean, it takes, depends on traffic, right? But yeah, it can take anywhere, say around 30, 35 minutes apart.

Michael: Was that always the goal for you? Like, I want two practices, or was it, I it just started happening.

Eric: Yeah, I mean initially, so my, my little backstory, my wife is also a dentist, right? We met in dental school and everything and we always kind of wanted to have at least a couple offices. we love the dentistry part too, but we also like the idea of building our own stuff as well and being able to like create our own vision with our dental practices.

So we always knew we kind of wanted multiple ones. And then, I mean, one nice thing is my wife actually was the one that kind of started up. The one down south and was kind of the main driver in there, was the one up north. I was too. So, I mean, kinda the reason we were able to do two is there's just two of us, right?

Mm-hmm. So we were able to kind of divide and conquer. So, yeah. Oh, okay. Gotcha,

Michael: gotcha. so for you, was that always the goal? Like, I wanna do my own practice?

Eric: Yeah. I mean, so my journey was after I graduated dental school 2013. Right. And then I ended up doing like a scholarship with the Navy, like the H P S P scholarship.

And was in the Navy for four years until 2017. During that time my wife and I had actually bought kind of an old Practice from, you know, an old dentist that really wasn't doing much and kind of fix and flip that. So we had done an acquisition when I was in the military and then from that experience we had said, you know, there were a lot of, there's a lot of challenges with buying a practice that doesn't have like good systems in place and you're just getting it kind of just cheap.

So that kind of made us realize, hey, maybe if when we do this again, cause we weren't gonna stay in California where I was stationed, let's look in doing our own thing and doing it from scratch so we can kind of like, you know, create our own vision.

Michael: Gotcha. Shit. What challenges were there that you can just think of right now where it's like, man, I don't know, like for acquisitions, if somebody's like, Hey man, I wanna do an acquisition, the first things you wanna let them know

Eric: is what, My only experience is buying a practice. So like it was, I think the practice was doing maybe like $360,000, right? It was an old dentist who needed to retire for, you know, certain medical reasons. And so that's my only experience there. So I don't really have any experience if it was like a, you know, a 2 million practice or a really, you know, well ran practice.

But from that, The one pro was, yeah, it was really inexpensive to buy. So like going out and getting a bank loan from B of A or Wells Fargo was pretty easy. Right. But it comes with a lot of challenges. Cause you know, obviously with the practice not being that strong of an office. From a production standpoint, made it challenging, more challenging with staff, right?

When you wanna put your processes in place. They'd been there for 30 years, right? So we had a lot of challenges. The dentist wasn't honestly the greatest to transition with. There were challenges there too. So even though sometimes I think if you were doing an acquisition and you were trying to do something like we were, where it's like, Hey, I'll buy a practice that's like a cheap practice that looks like it's a gem, right?

A lot of times there's a reason that it's a cheaper practice to buy and it wasn't doing well. So, I mean, there, yeah, there were a lot of challenges. So that, that, like, from that, I would say that's You can go into it and do it. Just don't expect, just because it was cheap that it's gonna be like easy at all.

It's gonna have a lot of challenges with it as well.

Michael: Yeah, I always hear it's like the team where it's like really hard to bring them on board and stuff like that.

Eric: Yeah, definitely. Just because like I said, so the other challenge is we did that when, what my wife and I were like, Late twenties. Right. So, you know, and the, the, the team that was all there were in their fifties.

Right. So it was a challenge. It, it is a challenge when you're trying to transition from a dentist who's older, had been there forever, the team has been there forever. And then, you know, the new owners or new doctors come in and they're the age of like, That those team members' children, right. So mm-hmm.

It was very challenging to get them on board and get that level of respect. that was probably a big challenger. Right? Yeah,

Michael: no, definitely, definitely. I get you. Okay, so then number two, in which category would you place your practice? Was it urban, suburban, rural, D s L, private practice, solo, docker, et cetera?

Eric: So let's just start the one down south. So that's in a, it's in a suburb area, right? A pretty well established suburb area. It's private practice, right? Cause my, my wife and I own it. There, we have one associate dentist there right now, and a couple hygienists. It's mainly a general, it's a general practice.

All the docs that work there are general dentists, but our associate is great with, you know, kind of being a. The super general dentist, right? Like mm-hmm. Enjoys doing third molar extractions, sedation some root canals adult ortho or aligners. All that kind of stuff.

So it does help us that we brought on associates who like to do a lot more than I guess what you would typically say a general dentist would do. And then the other location up north. I'm working there. I have another associate doctor that works there as well. Same thing, private practice. And kind of suburb area, but like a growing suburb area.

So like a lot of residential, but not really a lot of commercial spaces there yet. So that, that's been really, I'm, I'm glad we kind of made that decision where we picked that location. It's, it's worked out well. And same thing he likes to do, you know, he had gotten the G P R, so he got extra training, which was great.

So when we brought him on, he already was comfortable with, you know, all extractions, third molars, sedation, kind of the same stuff as the associate that we have down south. Gotcha. Okay.

Michael: Well, how did you find your

Eric: associates? kind of a good story. So, the first associate we had just kind of put an ad out, right?

And he had reached out to us that he was graduating from his G P R and was moving out to Denver. So, met him, had a, you know, great interview, brought him on, and then my office up north had been growing a lot and this was probably 2021, beginning of 2022. My practice up north was growing a lot and just to expand services and do some of the things that I didn't do as a dentist, I wanted to bring an associate on too that had a wider scope of what they wanted to do.

And so my associate down south. he had a friend from dental school who was finishing who was actually working out here had finished his G P R at the same time as that associate down there. Was working a job and just really wasn't that happy. And so it was kind of like an, like a, I didn't have to do any marketing or I didn't have to go through LinkedIn or reach out to people because we had a good relationship with this associate down south.

He pretty much said, Hey, I have a buddy who is looking for a new job. I went to school with him. I already know him. It's good. He's a good guy. And so, you know, we were able to bring him on. So, I think that just showed finding, you know, good associates, building good connections with them. That was great that we were able to find another associate just internally, right?

Mm-hmm. Versus having to go out and interview a bunch of people, and that's worked out great too. Gotcha.

Michael: Okay. So you kind of, you, do you always leave it open like as in the sense of like you let your associates know, or your team know like, Hey guys, we're always looking for applicants SMAs or no

Eric: on for associate?

It probably just depends on, it's all in like capacity issues, right? So right now it, both offices we're pretty like stable where we're at and still growing. But I haven't hit that next point to where. I'm having such a hard time getting patients in for months and months and months that I need another producer right now.

I think it's, like you said, it's always good to just keep the door open and just say, Hey, we're continuing to grow. We want to grow as we do, we're gonna need more providers. So, if you know people like, always share the word about your experience here. But like actively all the time.

No, and that's just based on like I said, we're pretty stable on the providers we have. Gotcha.

Michael: Okay. Good man, that's awesome. That's a great way to, uh, you know what I mean, continue to get like associates, especially like, you know what I mean, within your own internal team.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. It was great. Cause they all, they already knew each other, right?

So when we do meetings and we do things with them and help them grow, it's nice because they already had an existing relationship and so it just, it just creates a really good environment.

Michael: Yeah. No, no, no. I, I agree. So then what has been your experience with different marketing companies and which strategies have proved to be the most effective?

Eric: Yeah, good question. So experience with different marketing companies. I think probably a lot of the same challenges that a lot of the listeners have here too, you know, I've had as well, it's, marketing. I feel it is such a soft science, right? And it's very easy. To get suckered into companies who we promise you X amount of new patients in this time or your money back, and it's very gim.

It can be very, very gimmicky. okay, so going back to the beginning when we had the practice back in California, right? We just kind of did some research, went and saw who had good reviews, marketing agencies picked one who promised kind of the world, That didn't really get delivered after, we noticed after a few months.

And so we're like, all right, well that's not really gonna work. And so we had challenges even then when we moved out to, Colorado out here. You know, we had gone through two, three different marketing companies that, first, everything seems great. And then push all these different kind of avenues to grow and do all that.

And then when you start trying to track things and figure things out, you're finding that you're maybe not getting the same returns that were promised. So honestly the thing that's really worked for us recently is kind of just going back to the basics a little bit. And so the current marketing company that we use, We're just honing really in and from like a, a digital perspective of just doing Google Ads, making sure we're ranking really well, and that we have really good reviews.

We were just finding, with when tracking right on where our new patients were coming from, so many of a majority were coming from, Hey, you guys, you know, rank high and you guys had really good reviews, And that's what everyone was saying. So we listened to what our customers were saying.

That's how they were finding us. And so we just kind of doubled down and really focused in on that. And it made it a lot easier because we didn't, now, we don't have, now, I don't have to track direct mailers like I was in the past. I don't have to do as much ground marketing as I was in the past and track all these different things.

We were able to just hone in on a couple things, make sure they're done really, really well, and it's worked

Michael: nice. Okay. Right now. Could you tell us the name of your marketing company,

Eric: the one you're using right now? So I use a guy who is based overseas actually, and it's his name is eSSH.

He works with a lot of general practices, works with DSOs as well too. So yeah, that's, that's who I'm using. And that was just from internal referrals from other friends. But yeah, and I haven't really seen a drop off. I mean, at first you're kind of scared sometimes cause you're like, oh, you know, you're outsourcing stuff and you're outsourcing it overseas.

But, honestly, the cost has dropped down a bit and I've seen no drop or possibly even a little bit of an increase in the number of new patients I've seen. So, you know, I was hesitant at first, but honestly it no complaints.

Michael: Gotcha. Okay. When it came to the marketing companies that promised the world, how long did you stick with them?

Eric: Yeah. I mean, you always wanna stick a little bit, right? Mm-hmm. Like, you don't wanna be one of those people that just switches after a month or two. We would give it a good, say, six months to a year. Especially because a lot of them, we're pushing direct mailers, right? And so in the beginning we used direct mailers a lot.

Like that is what we did. It's expensive. Mm-hmm. And, the whole proposition on that was, well, you know, you gotta hit the consumer three, four or five times with like, same messaging, all that kind of stuff. You gotta put, deals in for place for them, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, you do get calls for 'em.

So a lot of times we would wait with a marketer to at least do that first round of direct mail because we didn't wanna like commit and then back out halfway through. But I mean, usually within a first, the first few months little red flags we would notice were, that they weren't tracking the KPIs for us or any type of roi, right?

Mm-hmm. On what we were getting. You know, communication was poor. It was almost like they spent a lot of time trying to get me. And then once they had me as a customer, it was kind of like just, okay, now we'll push 'em off, right? Mm-hmm. And so those were some red flags that I had noticed were just, yeah, it was, it was great in the beginning, but after a couple months you're like, all right, well this guy's not responding anymore.

You know? He used to respond every, you know, and within 30 minutes and now it's a few days, and so yeah, those are some of the red flags I kind of noticed.

Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then how much budget do you typically allocate for your marketing

Eric: activities? Yeah, so budgeting, like I said right now, because we're really focused in on just a few things.

Our ad spend, it is dependent on where you live too, right? Mm-hmm. And how expensive, AdWords are and stuff. But we're spending anywhere from like, say two to three grand a month in ad spend and then just a management fee. Um, That's pretty small to the marketer that I use. So maybe all in for each office we're spending maybe.

Three grand at one, four grand at the other, say. And we're seeing on average, say 60 to 80 new patients probably for each office which, happy with.

Michael: Yeah, that's really good. So you're getting around a month, 60 to 80

Eric: new patients? Yeah. Each office. Yeah. Got it. Like for e not total. Each office gets between that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael: So like in total it would be like 160 kind of thing,

Eric: right? Like yeah, probably anywhere from, say like, One 30 to one 50 if you averaged it. Probably around there. Yeah. Okay.

Michael: On can you tell your highest months? Yeah, I knew we got that much cuz we were spending, or we were doing this or we were doing that, or, or you can't really tell.

I mean,

Eric: I'm trying, so I was looking back at that our, our biggest month ever was, we've had a couple times that we've gone over a hundred at the location that's up north. Some of that has been, it, it really wasn't that we spent more in ad spend that month. We just had a lot of openings and we had a lot of open capacity at the office.

So kind of the issues that I'm starting to run in now is, you know, I'm getting say 60 to 80 new patients, but, just based on the size of the office. a new patient calls, we always try to get 'em in within the week, but I mean, we're starting to book out more so in my head we, I could probably get more new patients in.

I'm just running into a capacity issue. So the reason I was able to see a hundred that one month is we just had a lot of openings in that June for some reason. And so we were able just to fill in tons of new patients there. So the positive. From that on my perspective is if I feel like I pushed it harder and either, extended hours or opened up a new operatory, did something like that and created more space to see more patients, then I could, probably get even more new patients in.

So yeah, that's probably why we had that higher number.

Michael: Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So it was more slots open, available in the schedule. Exactly. Exactly. Interesting. Okay. And then how equipped is your team in converting calls into actual

Eric: patients? I feel like we're pretty good with it. I've made sure to train my team to always answer the phone.

And one thing that we've actually done, which is a I forgot where I had learned it, but it was a good little nugget of information that on our phone system, right? When someone calls in, they, you know, it says, Hey, welcome to our office. If you're a new patient, press one. If you're an existing patient, press two, right?

Mm-hmm. So if they press one and they're a new patient, the phone will ring longer. It'll go through, I don't know, four or five rings, right? Whereas if it's an existing patient, but it'll go for a shorter period of time. That way, my whole team knows if the calls ring longer, like it's gone through its third ring or its fourth ring, hey that is 100% someone who's calling to be a new patient.

You gotta drop what you're doing. You gotta answer that phone. We cannot let that go to voicemail. Right. We need to answer that. Yeah. So we implemented that system in place and so my whole team knows that. Hey, even if I'm doing something else, if I hear the phone ringing and it's still been ringing for longer than normal, I gotta pick that up cause that's probably a new patient.

Right? Cuz like all of us know those new patients cost money, right? We gotta put marketing efforts in to get that. So, my team knows to do that and that's a little trick we did to get them on board to answer that and then, We have a, just a very simple paper intake form that just has some basic questions on it that kind of directs our team on what to ask for whether, just a.

New patient appointment for a checkup and cleaning, or if it's a limited exam, right, they need to come in for an emergency. If it's a new patient exam, we make sure we build our schedule out that we can get them in within the week, right? Because you don't want a patient calling and saying, oh, well we can't get you, you know?

And we say, Hey, we can't get you in for three weeks. They're gonna find somewhere else. Or they'll make the appointment and then not show up. Right? So we make sure we have capacity in our schedule to be able to see them, within a decent timeframe. And then if it's an emergency, one thing I have told all my team is we gotta get them in same day.

You know, we don't need to promise that we're gonna start treatment on 'em, right? But we can at least get 'em in to address their concerns and figure out what's going on. Patients really appreciate that, and that has created a lot of goodwill within our community that patients know they can come in and see us.

We've had a couple patients who call in for emergencies because the dentist down the street or wherever they normally go, can't see 'em for three days. We get 'em in the same day and then we convert them over to our practice. So it's been a great way to, gain more patience by doing that.

Michael: Gotcha.

Okay man. So then they basically fill out that new patient form real quick and then bring them in.

Eric: Right. Yeah. We have 'em fill in. So everything else is pretty much digital in the office, right? Mm-hmm. So when they fill out that intake form, then it's my scheduler's job or whoever has, whoever's taking the call to find time within our schedule to get them in.

We'll try to get, you know, basic insurance information, all that kind of stuff so we can make the appointment go a little more smoothly when they come in, right from that perspective. and then, yeah, they pretty much just, they, we'd get 'em in.

Michael: Gotcha. Awesome, man. And then could you elaborate on any unique.

Ground marketing or outta the box strategies that have been successful for your practice.

Eric: So when we did, because our practices were startups, right? So I feel like in the beginning we had to try to get creative, cuz you come in with no pa, no new patients, right? So, and you don't have, your website isn't built up, you don't have a ton of good reviews, all that kind of stuff.

So a lot of the things I'm doing now is a byproduct of. Time, and being able to build all that. But in the beginning, yeah, some of the ground marketing I did and was, we went to all the apartment complexes that were nearby, you know, gave gift, either gift baskets to the people working there or asked to drop certain, flyers and different things in there new mover baskets that they'll give, right?

Mm-hmm. To new tenants coming in. And saw some decent results with that in the beginning. I don't do that anymore because it's not, it's not really needed because we. Built up the new patient flow to where it needs to be. But in the beginning, man, you gotta kind of just grind, right? So, I mean, we did that, you know, I went to the towns we're in, they have like festivals, every summer.

And so we took a booth out, wore our swag that we had and just, had 'em. Play like a game to win a prize. Then we try to get their information in, you know, as long as they put in their information, then we try to reach out to them later to try to get them to schedule. One issue we did see with that, and it's probably just dependent on the market you're in and where it is is my office is, don't take Medicaid insurance, but one of the festivals we were at, it was a heavy A lot of people who were there, used Medicaid for their dental benefits.

And so that didn't work that well for us because, I mean, we didn't really know what the demographic was gonna be, who was gonna be at that, right? Like, there's no way to know that. But that was one good learning lesson is, the, the audience we were targeting wasn't the audience that was at that, mm-hmm.

Ground marketing kind of event. Right? Yeah. But you know, I've thrown around tons of other like, kind of ideas, but it kind of goes back to that first point that I had was. initially I think you gotta do some of that ground marketing, but one I think you really hone in and focus in on, you get good reviews, right?

As fast as you can. you get really good marketing company that can just build your rankings and build a really good modern website. That's good, that's easy for patients to use. we use a software that has kind of like a local med right, where the patients can schedule online to make it convenient for them.

And we just really focusing on building those few things really well. And it's allowed us to kind of step away from having to do all this ground marketing that we, you know, in my head I'm like, oh, this is gonna be huge. Right. Because a, that takes a lot of time too. Mm-hmm. You know, my time, team members time, right.

I gotta pay team members to be there, whereas, I have to pay for the Google ad, but don't have to pay for a team member to be there. So, we've definitely pivoted more to just, like I said, focusing in on those few main things and it's, it's been good.

Michael: Yeah. The Pareto principle, right?

Like you're focusing in on the this pretty good, pretty good. Exactly. Exactly. Have you ever faced a situation where the promised results were not achieved within the expected

Eric: timeframe? Yeah, I mean, yeah, kind of like I alluded to earlier, you know, the one good thing about the marketer that I use now is it's pretty straightforward. Easy to get in touch with. I kind of know I, expectations are good, but yeah, in the past, so like, for example, the previous marketer I used. Before this one was a local marketer in Colorado. He was a de dental specific still, right? Like I still reco, you know, I'd still recommend you pick a dental specific marketer, right?

Mm-hmm. he had all these huge ideas on what he was gonna do every week. It was, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, and then nothing would ever come to fruition. So that was kind of frustrating. I also found out, cause I had some friends that were clients of his as well.

And they, you know, we'd talk and they'd say, Hey, I'm doing really well with him and, we're doing x, y, and z marketing things. And I was like, well, those never, how come those never got mentioned to me? I'm only 15 miles away from this other office. Why? Why is he telling them and not telling me?

So I'd have to go back and say, I just talked to my friend, they said they're doing this and this with you. Just how come we're not having consistency here? Like everything's kind of all over the map and not organized. So, that was kind of frustrating as well, where I felt like I wasn't getting at least the options to know everything.

Right. so then direct mailers too, like we used those in the beginning. And those, those did work for a bit, but then kind of tailed off and didn't really give us much of an ROI after that. But those were, those cost a lot of money and, sometimes marketers I think would promise, a certain result from those.

And then when we would track it, we're like, well, we got like a third of that. Right? Like, Hey, you're gonna get. I'm just throwing random numbers, like you're gonna get 20 calls on this and we'd see like six. Right. And it would be consistent. So I think a lot of times, A lot of times I think it was just over-promising and underdelivering.

Mm-hmm. Right. Or with rankings, previous marketer, I used two before this one. That's helped me boost my rankings, All right. How come rankings aren't where they're at? How come I'm still ranked like 20th and there's 20 dentists in the area, right? Why am I at the bottom? feel like we've got good reviews, we've got a good website, all this stuff.

Oh, no, no, we're working on it. It takes time. It takes time. three months later, Hey, I'm still 20th, man, you know? Are we working on, oh, yeah, no, no, we're working. We're good. Next month. I'm at 19, right? See, see, we made some progress. Now we're at 19 and it's like, All right. Well, I mean, I'm paying you every month.

Like I'd like to see some, possible, some quicker results. What do we need to do that? I'll do what you deem me to do. Just tell me. And so I think we were running into issues where it was just a lot of that Right. Just, you know, mm. Not being able to deliver. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael: That's true. I feel like especially the SEO game, It's like that, where they're like, oh, you gotta optimize your website. You gotta piss optimize. You're like, well, whatcha you doing every month to really optimize this thing? Yeah. Paying a fee all the time, you

Eric: know? Yeah. And it's not meant to try to be negative on it. I get, it's a really soft science, and I'm not a marketer, so I don't understand all the workings of it, but I think the issue is, is when.

The promise or the expected delivery is we're gonna get you on the first page within X timeframe. What would happen is that timeframe would happen and it wouldn't happen. And so then I think as like Dennis, like us, we say, okay, well I just paid you X amount of money with the goal that we would get here.

We're not here. And then it was always like a new excuse of why it didn't happen. So, I'm happy with, who I've got now. We've been able to deliver on the results and it's been good.

Michael: Awesome man. So who you got now? The marketing company or the guy who's doing your, your marketing right now.

What specific actions have they undertaken for you? Like, I know you said they're doing your digital or Google ads, and then at the same time seo, but specifically like what do they recommend from you? Or what they, would they ask for you?

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. So for me, I'll use Slack, like, I don't know if you've ever used that app.

Right. Just to communicate. And so we'll communicate on there. in the beginning he came through and he's like, Hey, I need to, like every marketer, I need to reoptimize your website. Right? So, you know, he went through and he told me, Hey get me a video here. This'll help if we put this here, I wanna put a call to action here.

Here's the reason why I need some photos of this, this, and this. And so he would just gimme tasks of what I needed. I would send it to him, and then he would do it. Right. And that's, and we communicate mostly through like Slack, which is kind of nice. And then in terms of ads, a lot of it is, when I do meetings with him, it's, Hey, what do you, at your practice, what are you looking for right now?

Right. Do you wanna see more emergencies? Okay, let's push Google Ads. Here's some of the recommendations that I have for ads that we do. Look over it. Tell me if you're okay as well with how it's worded, right? Because we wanna make sure things are worded how we want, right? Because to make sure there's not any, like either errors or we're saying something that we can't promise on, right?

So I, I like to just do a quick double check just to make sure, or hey, My associate wants to get more into uh, clear aligners, right. You know, like Invisalign kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. And he'd say, okay, let's make a, let's make a landing page and try to put an offer on there.

This is what I'm recommending what do you think? And I look my stuff and say, yeah, we're good. So he is like, all right, we're gonna drive traffic to here, and then it's gonna push them through to your site and then they can schedule. Right. So we kind of just are a little more collaborative and we kind of talk about that stuff and then, it's pretty basic.

He just tells me what he needs and then he does it right. Which, sometimes, I think we think things have to be complicated for them to actually feel like they're good. And sometimes I think there's a lot of genius in people that can take things that. Are complicated, make 'em very simple and then just make 'em work, right?

Yeah. And that's kind of what I've been finding with this marketer. So it's been good. Nice man.

Michael: Awesome. Awesome. And then can you share any other strategic changes apart from marketing that you implemented and found to contribute

Eric: to your success? So apart from marketing, For us, I think what's helped attribute our to our success in general and being able to grow both the, startup practices I feel like pretty strongly in a, in a relatively short amount of time.

It's just having systems and processes in place, right. I kind of had to learn that the hard way. between the two of us, my wife is way more of the systems person, way more of the organized person. Mm-hmm. Hold people accountable. And I tend to just be like the fun one who just comes to hang out.

Right. And so there's a lot of cons to being that type of person. Right. Especially when we had our first child a few years ago and she had to step away from the businesses and, then it was all on me to kind of. Take over it. And you know, I knew all the systems, but you know, I wasn't following 'em as much and I didn't track to make sure they were being done.

The team kind of noticed I was, not doing my checklist of stuff I had to do in a, and then they stopped. Right? And so it caused the practices to kind of, dip a little bit. And so I kind of had to, Think about all that and kind of have a little heart, heart to it myself and say, Hey man, you got two options.

Like we know these systems work. Either need to do it and be the leader of it or don't, and then they'll continue to dip. So once I started following more of our, you know, our systems for how we order our systems for, how we track lab or all that kind of stuff, right? That comes into a practice.

Once I started actually. Holding myself and other people accountable to that, then the practices starts to, to get going better again. Right. And doing well again. So I would think the one thing that really contributed and contributes continuously to our success is just having systems in place and making sure that we're following those systems.

Michael: Okay, so having systems right now, if you can think about it, what are like one or two systems where you're like, man, we created it. It's a unique system in our practice. We love it

Eric: and it's amazing. Yeah, so that's great. I mean, probably for me it's probably all ordering stuff. Right? And then I'll, this kind of goes into, how I ended up creating a software company too that's based on.

Like an ordering system. Right. So, little bit of a backstory. So when Covid hit right, it hit all of us as dental offices, right? We were all shut down. It was mandated, you know, some longer, some shorter, but in Colorado we were shut down for six weeks unless it was like a, just a straight up emergency, right?

So, say mid-March to beginning of May my wife and I were just home, right? And we brought the office phone back to our office at our house. And we were just answering calls and we kind of said, all right, well, you know, since we kind of have to bootstrap this, the entire staff was furloughed, right?

we'll take calls when we're not doing that, what are we gonna do with our time? Like, we had a little kid at home, but like when they're sleeping and stuff, it's like, we're not just gonna sit around and watch tv, right? Like, how can we, how can we actually like take this negative experience and make it positive?

So we said, all right, let's look at all of our different processes, What are we doing? Let's look at our systems, let's review everything. So we started to go through all of our different systems and. We had gotten onto ordering and you know, we had a spreadsheet and everything and it was good. It was organized.

And at that same time though, I realized that I had to order, right. Usually my assistant ordered, but my order, my assistant's not working for me. So, we were looking and we were trying to find the things that everyone was trying to find. Right. All the PPE you're trying to find. Yeah.

Gloves, masks. You know, you've got, I had my Henry Shine tab up and I had my Darby tab up and my net 32, and then some random supplier in like China or something, right? Mm-hmm. And you got all of them up and you're trying to figure out, I need to get this kn N 95 max. No, no, no. It needs to be a level three.

No, it needs to at least be this. Right. And then with gloves, but we need, you know, I wear larges. Oh, they only have extra smalls, right? And they're like, crap, okay, what does Darby have? What do they have? And one second, it's in stock. Then you press add to cart and it's now it's unavailable, right?

And the prices are skyrocketing and there's all these issues with this. And so we're like, man, this is kind of tough. We're like, I wonder if there's like a better way to, outside of all this covid stuff, just to kind of order in general, right? Mm-hmm. Cause we were seeing all those challenges.

So the idea for the software company we created Ordo like O R D O was born and so, They kind of first just started out as an idea to just take all of those vendors that we all use and just have 'em on one platform because, it's so annoying to have to click between 10 different tabs and, compare prices and do all that.

So at first, the tool was just built out as a way to link all of the vendors that you have, put 'em on one platform. You search for an item, like if I was searching for Septocaine, right? I press search and then I can see. Septocaine, I can see all the vendors I've linked. I can price compare right then and there in real time.

these are all made up numbers, but shine's numbers, it's, it's 45 bucks for Shine, it's, it's 50 bucks for Darby and it's 55 for net 32. Okay, well I'm gonna pick Henry Shine. It's in stock and it's there. So that's where that idea was born to just make it a lot easier for dental offices, assistant office managers, whoever who's ever ordering to be able to just.

Place their orders and then it's grown, right? So we went from there and said, all right, well how else do you continue to build out an ordering system? Right? You gotta be able to track your inventory, track your budget, all that stuff too. So we've built out additional features where you know, you can track your budget.

In real time so your team knows where they're at. You don't have to have a spreadsheet for that anymore. with inventory we can track all of your orders on one platform from all your different vendors. You can check to see, if it's shipped, you can click on the tracking link to know when it's expected.

So pretty much from start to finish, you can order supplies and track all your inventory, which is great. We let users keep their current. Prices if they're part of a buying group, they get to keep the current prices they have with them. So, doesn't create an issue. And then we've even, sorry, I know I get excited about talking about this.

No, it's good. It's good. Feel free to stop me if you need me to, but no. One other thing that we did cool that I feel like differentiates us from the other people in the space that are doing something similar is we've actually linked up directly with open dental. Right. You know how their softwares will do that as well.

You know, there's a way where you can link your open dental account to Oro and we can first, we can pull all of your budgets automatically. So we'll just take your, you know, monthly report that shows your production or collections, and we can sync it straight into Oro and then it'll update, every month.

So your team doesn't have to manually put in all that stuff again. And the other thing that we did that's really cool with Open Dental is we created a feature called FutureCast. And what that does is it allows us to scan your schedule on open dental, either a week out, two weeks out, just you know, certain timeframes into the future.

We can compare how many of a certain procedure you have compared to what you normally do, like historically. So like for Example that actually happened. My associate had a ton of extractions scheduled in the following week. He had a full mouth case. He had a thirds case. He had a ton of just single teeth.

He had like 30 more extractions than he normally does. That's what we figured out by running future cast. And so what it did is it allowed my assistant to be really proactive and she said, Hey, look, The doc here is doing 30 more extractions. Do I have enough bone graft? Do I have enough sutures?

Do I have enough membrane? Do I have enough of the things I need, or my doc needs to be able to do these procedures so it's not Monday and we're scrambling to try to get stuff, you know, next day air sent over. So she was able to be proactive about her ordering. And it solved a huge issue. It was a super smooth week.

We kept production. We didn't have to reschedule patients, you know, and everyone got, what they needed to get done and there was no stress then because she just was able to be proactive. But yeah. Cool. Yeah. So, yeah. That's nice man. Pretty

Michael: excited about it. Yeah. And this is going live when?

Eric: So right now we are just, we just got out of beta. We're doing kind of a soft launch with a few other offices just to kind of work out some final kinks on it. But, our goal is, June 1st, we're gonna start kind of doing a little bit heavier of uh, bringing on some more offices.

And then July 1st is when we'd like to be full steam ahead, anyone can join on. And yeah, just go from there. So yeah, we're real, we're really, really excited. A lot of work development takes a long time, but it's definitely been worth it. It's been great.

Michael: No man, it's gonna be exciting stuff.

Awesome. So we'll talk about that a little bit and especially the exclusive offer you have for our listeners in a bit. But one of the last questions I wanted to ask you is, as a practice owner, what advice would you give to our listeners regarding effective marketing and ROI

Eric Applesies DRAFT-cm: tracking?

Eric: Yeah, that's a really, really good question.

I was kind of contemplating and thinking about that a little bit it kind of goes back to what I've kind of been talking about throughout the podcast, I feel like is. Eventually just once you've got your practice established and you're good, just going back to the basics a little bit on what you're doing with marketing, right?

And this is just from like the last year of when we've just kind of gone back to keeping it simple. And I think I tell a new practice owner, Hey, in the beginning you gotta go hard. You gotta ground market, you gotta do whatever you can. You gotta hustle, right? To get those new patients in.

Cause you're, you know, if you're a startup, you're starting with nothing. And if you're a transition, I mean maybe not as much cause you maybe already have new patient flow. But I would say it's really just go back to the basics. focus first and on. If you're doing an acquisition, check to see what your reviews are like.

If they're not where they need to be, get 'em up. Right? Use a company that does review management, right? There's a ton of 'em out there that'll help make it easy for you, right? Mm-hmm. Build up your reviews. 90 plus percent of your patients it happens every time I tell 'em, or I ask 'em, how'd you hear about us?

It's always, you guys had amazing reviews. Right? And they're not just, you know, at our office, we just don't have a five star review with no. Like comment underneath it that the user left, it'll be a five star review and it'll say, I had a great experience. You know, Dr. So-and-so was great. The assistance were great.

It's a long response. And potential customers or patients love to see those. So I would say build reviews, build them as fast as you can, and make sure they're quality reviews right. Focus in on that. Focused in on getting a marketing company that, doesn't try to over promise. If they're trying to over promise on stuff and like, Hey, we're gonna make you first in the rankings and all that, it's probably a red flag cuz I don't think they're doing something that's special that another marketing company can't.

I have not been convinced yet that there's some special sauce that some market one marketing company has that other ones don't. Right. So, I don't see a lot of difference between them in terms of that. I would say, Get a really good website, make sure it's modern. Something that people wanna see, right?

That users don't feel like. Cause if a, if a website feels old or it's not working, then they probably attribute that to your office, right? If it's modern, it looks new, it's clean, it's easy to use, you can schedule online, then you've created a smooth process for them before they've even seen you. So they have the expectations subconsciously in their head that my appointment is gonna be smooth too, right?

So make it easy for 'em. And Yeah, and I, I'd say yeah, focusing on, focusing on those Google ads have worked really well for us. They're very hands-off. Once you have 'em running, you don't have to think about 'em. I found more of the marketing that I don't have to think about and just gets done and it gets done effectively.

Frees up more time for me and it's less things I have to think about. So that's why I like those as well. But yeah, I would, I would say focusing on those things.

Michael: Awesome, man. I appreciate your time. And real quick, where can people find out more about Ordo at the same time? The exclusive deal. All that stuff.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. So our website, it's join ordo.com. Very easy process. Once you go in you can check out the website, kind of see our vendors we have on there kind of see all the features that we have. You can onboard straight from the website, which is great. Onboarding takes safe five to 10 minutes, and then you're good to go.

So, very easy as well. And yeah, so the offer that I wanted to, you know, give all the listeners here is just the first month free, That way it gives everyone a chance to use the platform, love it as much as we do. Make sure it's a good fit and everything. And if you just use promo code T D M and you put it in to the end of onboarding, there'll be a spot.

Then it'll apply and you'll be good.

Michael: Nice guys. So you're gonna get a month for free. Check it out. Taste it, right. Feel it. It's interesting. But future cast is really, really interesting. You know what I mean? Like everything's really great. But that to me, I was like, oh, snap.

Eric: Yeah, we're really, and honestly it was through a friend who was like, you know, I was giving, I was just asking some friends about it, and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if we could do this?

And I was like, yes, that would be amazing. We should do that. And so, yeah, we built it out. I, I really, I'm really, really excited about that feature. I feel like it's something that hasn't been seen before and it's gonna provide a lot of value to practices, so, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Michael: definitely. Awesome. Eric, thank you so much for your time.

If wanted, if anyone wanted to reach out to you, where can they find you?

Eric: Yeah my email is Eric e r i c, join ordo.com. So feel free there. And yeah, I'll I'm happy to answer any questions for you.

Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, along with the exclusive deal and the Ordo website if you guys want to go check it out.

And Eric, thank you for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear

Eric: from you soon. Sounds great. Thanks for having me.

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(If you DO want to work with Golden Proportions, they are actually giving all our listeners 2 EXCLUSIVE DEALS)

Reach out to Golden Proportions here: https://go.goldenproportions.com/dental-marketer-deal

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Hey guys, welcome to this week's MMM! Today we're diving into the world of SEO with our special return guest, Xana Winans. Join us as we explore the secrets of utilizing SEO for your dental practice, and how to know if it's actually moving the needle. We'll uncover the importance of location and service keywords, with Xana's expert advice recommending 3-5 keywords for every 500-600 words of text on your website. The competitiveness of your area impacts your SEO strategy vastly, so we share some thoughts and strategies on effectively assessing your competition's keyword usage. Plus, we'll uncover a crucial tip: if your website hasn't seen new content in years, Google may be ignoring it.

Don't miss out on this chance to boost your SEO chops, and get more searching patients through your doors!

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You can reach out to Xana Winans here:

Website: https://www.goldenproportions.com/

Get Xana's free assessments and guides here: https://www.goldenproportions.com/dental-marketing-resources/

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Other Mentions and Links:

AACD - American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry

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If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:

My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/

The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

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Michael: Hey Xana. So talk to us about s e O. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions or methods can you give us that will help us actually attract new patients through

Xana: seo? So first off, thanks for having me, Michael. Um, I love talking about seo O I'm a complete geek when it comes to this stuff because it feels like Google has this secret sauce that they're not willing to share with the rest of us.

But there's actually a ton of information out there, and, part of the reason I'm so excited about it just because doctors don't understand what they're buying. So I like to teach them things that allow them to literally look on their website and see. Did I get the right thing? Am I getting something that is gonna actually help me to rank my website?

So it all starts with keywords. so let me ask you a question. When you want to find a question or the answer to a question on Google, what's the first thing you do?

Michael: I'm gonna ask it. Like, where can I find. Take, I don't know, something like that. You know

Xana: what I mean? Sure. Yeah. So with within the phrase that you're asking, there are target keywords that Google is trying to match up with the best possible result.

Their entire goal is to give you the best user experience, and that means they wanna give you a website that matches the, the answer that you're looking for. Um, and that happens because they're able to find that answer on your website in the way it's been built. So, For any doctor to know if their website is ranking.

It's all about understanding the keywords. And the keywords are, are the basic things that just like if you were a patient and you were trying to understand, how do I find the best dentist for, uh, pediatrics, for cosmetic dentistry, for dental implants, they're gonna go online and they're gonna type in a phrase that says, cosmetic dentist near me.

How do I find a good pediatric dentist? Those keywords. Physically have to be on your website. I don't know how familiar you are with seo, but do you know the top couple of places that you can look at on your own site to see if your keywords are being used? Well, is it like homepage or? No, it's all over the website.

Oh, okay. So when you're in your browser, let's say you're in Google Chrome. I don't know about you, but I have like 10 tabs open at all time. I'm hopping back and forth. Yeah. Between like email and my calendar and something I'm researching and something I'm working on for a client. Well, every time that you're in your browser and you're looking up a couple of different websites, you probably don't even realize this, but if you take your mouse and you hover over the little tab at the top mm-hmm.

It has some words on it. And those words on the website are known as the title tag. It's a meta tag or a meta description that kind of explains to Google what the purpose of the website is about. So if, for example, I am on a doctor's website that is in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania where I happen to live, and um, it's a page about cosmetic dentistry, I would expect to see the words cosmetic dentistry.

And Lewisburg, the town that's most important to me physically pop up when I hover on that, that little tag, that tab. If you hovering over something and it says home, or it just has your business name without any local geo identifiers, your website is definitely not optimized. That's place number one to look for keywords.

Another really good place to look for them is called anchor text. I'll ask you, do you know what Anchor text is and what the purpose of it is?

Michael: Um, man, this on you. You're putting me on the spot and I don't know anything about seo, so I, I'm assuming anchor text is like the, the text that people can easily find, like if they click on something and it goes to it, or, or no.

Am I super

Xana: off? No, you're, you're roughly right. So let's say you're on this page about cosmetic dentistry. part of the goal is to get you to maneuver around the website to a couple of different pages to explore what this doctor has to offer. Mm-hmm. So, as you're reading the text on this page, on cosmetic dentistry, You might see a couple of underlines or hyperlinks that will take you to a different page.

So for example, if you are accredited with the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, you might say that in your bio, or talk about the importance of that accreditation. But then you're gonna link out to a different website, the very words that are used in that link. That link is considered anchor text.

And the better the keywords that are used in that link, the more valuable it is in Google's mind. So often you've probably seen this, we all have, where um, you're reading something on a website and it says, click here. Mm-hmm. And click here are the only two words that are your hyperlink. What do you think that does for, say, somebody who's trying to rank for cosmetic dentistry in Lewisburg?

Michael: it doesn't

Xana: go with it exactly. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't tell the search engine what is most important on that page. So instead, you might want to have your hyperlink with the anchor text, say, learn more about cosmetic dentistry services in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania and. That whole section is typically like a highlighted word and it links to another page, but there's keywords physically in that link that make a better user experience.

It helps someone know, what is this thing I wanna learn about? It's a great signal to Google. there's also a couple of other places that you wanna use these keywords and it's in the text on your website page. So the content on your page should contain not just the one keyword that you care about, like cosmetic dentistry, Lewisburg, but it should be repeated and talked about a couple of different ways.

Throughout the website, Google has something that they call semantic language. So they understand when you're talking about cosmetic dentistry, that that's also tied to smile Design. And smile design might also be affiliated with porcelain veneers. And so you talk about a couple of different cosmetic dentistry topics and Google knows to tie it all together.

So ideally you need to be incorporating your primary keyword, say cosmetic dentistry, Lewisburg into that website page. I'd say probably three to five times in about five or 600 words on a page. Doctors hate to see all this content on their website. They seem to think like nobody's gonna sit there and read all that, so they just want like a little blip of text.

Unfortunately, Google wants to see all of it. So you've gotta have enough information to actually describe this thing that you're talking about.

Michael: Mm. Okay. Now information wise, how much is like too much? How much is too little? If I were to be like, can we just do, like for example, let's hire Golden Proportions.

And I tell them, can we just do like five sentences every month of a specific topic, but like really talk about it or no. Um, well,

Xana: I would tell you to probably not waste your money doing that. it really needs to have some depth to it. Mm-hmm. So there's a, a couple of things to keep in mind. Let's say you wanna rank for cosmetic dentistry, Lewisburg, but there's somebody else who's po in position one and you're in position for, one of the things you want to do is go to your competitor and literally see how many words.

Are on that same page that they're ranking for the term that you want, and then how often is that keyword repeated in their text? And believe it or not, and this is very well documented and proven, you need to have more words than the next guy as one of a really big ranking signal to get you up there.

So you know, if you only have five sentences and the guy. Who is ranking number one has a thousand words on this page about cosmetic dentistry. He's gonna win hands down, over and over and over again. it's not just that there's a hard and fast rule, it's kind of more knowing I. If there's nobody else in town who cares about that keyword, you'll rank by default.

But if it is, you know, a really competitive keyword, you've gotta do some competitive research to find out what else is going on in your community and take a really targeted approach to your

Michael: success. Gotcha. Okay. Would video work in that scenario

Xana: or no? So video works in a couple of different ways in that it's great for user engagement.

People love to watch videos, but just watching the video itself only gives Google one signal, which is how long somebody spends on the website. What it doesn't do is give them any actual content. So what you'll need to do is use a transcription service. Who then writes out the script of what was talked about in your, um, video, and then you include that text on the website and that text is inevitably going to be containing some of the keywords you're looking for.

Gotcha. Okay. So

Michael: this is what, a portion or all of it, or is this part of what we kind of pay for when it comes to s

Xana: e O? So this is just a part of it. This is a little bit of the magic behind why search engine. People write what they write and the way that they write it. Often I've seen doctors who want to go in and edit the way that something is written because it doesn't sound as much like them.

Or, they want to use a word that might, in their mind be more descriptive of the procedure, but if it's not a keyword that somebody is actually searching, it's kind of useless. So it's important to know that, you know, what you're paying for is someone who knows where to put the right words in the right place with the right frequency in order to get you to rank.

Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So that's part of it, right?

Xana: That's part of it. Part of s Yeah, it's actually kind of like a mathematical formula, figuring out that right density of keywords. Oh,

Michael: okay. Okay. And so frequency matters too. I heard you say that right? Like how often we're supposed to be posting, um,

Xana: You're ready. Um, frequency matters both in how many times the keyword is used in a page on the website, but also how often you're adding new content.

So that's one of the great joys of blogging is if you have a blog on your website, it's really easy to write something interesting, maybe about an FAQ that you hear from a patient, and you write 350 to 500 words about that particular topic, and you're adding new content to the website. I'd every two weeks, you know, once a month at the absolute minimum.

And it shows Google that your website is active and interesting. So if you have a website where you have not added any new content in literally years mm-hmm. Your website is being completely ignored by Google.

Michael: Okay. So, for example, let's just say some, we're listening right now, right to this episode.

We're like, all right, I wanna get golden proportions to do just by, by the way, do you guys just do seo? If we were to just ask you guys just to do

Xana: seo, Well, it depends on the quality of the website. So if somebody comes to us and they have an otherwise really good website, absolutely we can transfer the site in, we can do SEO o for them.

but often part of s e o is also the websites speed and how good the user experience is. And so sometimes if you've got a website that's more than three or four years old, often it needs kind of to be re-skinned on new technology that makes Google happy. So, And I always say Google because they're the king of the search engines.

Obviously there's more than just Google out there, but it is really helpful. Gotcha.

Michael: Okay, so then we did the seo. What's the best kind of, you recommend if we're like, Hey, you're on page 10, you're on page seven, right? Like if you wanna get to number one, this is the frequency, this is the package you need to get, and then can you kind of let us know like, okay, if somebody were to recommend that, that's a little bit.

Eh, they're just getting you for your money kind of

Xana: thing. Well, that's the thing is it's really different from practice to practice. It depends on the market that you're in. Mm-hmm. If you're trying to rank number one for dentist in Chicago, it's gonna take a whole different level of effort. Then dentist in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania, which is a town of about 25,000 people.

So when you have a package, That's kind of trying to shove a really unique situation into a standard solution for everybody. Mm-hmm. I think it's better to make sure that the company really looks at your website and says, okay, knowing your market, knowing your competition, knowing what you wanna rank for, here's the best way to do it.

And it could be outside of a package, it could require something completely different. So packages have their place, but they might not be serving you really, really well.

Michael: Gotcha to like your unique demographic and everything like that.

Xana: not so much demographic as it is understanding your market and the other doctors that are out there.

So it, it's one of those situations that, you know, if you're at a trade show and you see somebody selling SEO services and it's 2 95 a month, they're selling the exact same solution to somebody in a Podunk small town where there's no competition as they are to somebody in an incredibly competitive market.

And it might not be the right solution for you. So seo, you don't wanna buy on price. You wanna buy on someone who actually understands what it takes to rank in your market for the things that are important to your practice.

Michael: Awesome. I appreciate that Xana, and thank you so much for your time. And if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you

Xana: directly?

Uh, best way to reach us is on our website, golden proportions.com. Um, there'll be a live chat. We can definitely have a chat on there, or you'll see a place where you can schedule an appointment and we'd love to talk to you.

Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below. As always, anzania, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode.

My

Xana: pleasure. Thank you, Michael.

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Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society

Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/[Click here to leave a review on iTunes]

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Guest: Mary Ann PruittBusiness Name: Mosaic MediaCheck out Mary Ann's Media:‍

Website: https://mosaic.agency/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/mediaMAPs

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryann-pruitt/

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Other Mentions and Links:

MeatEater

Netflix

Google Pay for Click

Bing Pay for Click

Hulu

Amazon Prime Video

Dr. Clark

Superfans - Pat Flynn

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Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer

Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society

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My Key Takeaways:

• Can you answer 10 questions about your target audience? This will help narrow down your marketing efforts.
• Don’t be the turtle in a recession, do something to stand out from the competition!
• Outsourcing to a professional in marketing with save you valuable time and money.
• Having a specific strategy partner will help bring your marketing plan together.
• Make sure content you put out always speaks to your target audience.
• Social media platforms are NOT for targeting, they are for branding!

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Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]

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p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

Michael: it's time to talk with our featured guests, Marianne Pruitt. Marianne, how's it going? Great. How are you

Mary Ann: today?

Michael: I'm doing pretty good. Before we pushed record, you were giving us a lesson real quick on where you're located. Where are you?

Mary Ann: Where you from? Yeah, so I live in Anchorage, Alaska.

I'm not originally from there, but I live in Anchorage, Alaska now. We are a media firm that is covers the entire country. It's just, I just have the amazing benefit of being able to live in Alaska.

Michael: I know I got really into Alaska when I was watching Meat Eater. I don't know if that Oh yeah.

Netflix. Yeah. I mean, they're in Alaska all the time. Real quick, if you can let our audience know. Two quick facts about Alaska where

Mary Ann: you're from. Two quick facts. The state of Alaska is almost the same size as the continental us. If you were to take the state of Alaska and put it in the middle of the continental US, it would touch coast to coast.

People do not realize that and top to bottom. Oh wow. So Alaska is huge. Another quick fact. We are the more what number one ice cream consumer per capita. So who knew that? And then one more fact, we have more pilots than any other state per capita as well. Oh, wow. The

Michael: ice cream wine.

Mary Ann: Interesting. The ice cream one. Right. Number one highest consumer of ice cream. So you would think you love our ice cream? I, I think it's the lack of vitamin D in the winter, but maybe not. I don't know. Oh, okay. Maybe this is the theory. I think we just like our ice

Michael: cream. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Awesome, Marianne, I appreciate that.

If you can tell us a little bit about your past, your present, how'd you get to where you are today?

Mary Ann: I'm an East Coast girl originally. But I actually started in marketing and in media at a very young age. So I was 16, 17 years old. I started on the graphic design side, believe it or not.

And this was before everything was digitized, so you had to take an actual picture, scan it in, use it that way. And that's actually how I got into marketing. I worked in a tourism shop for a while designing various gadgets for tourists and various things along those lines. It was a lot of fun, but I fell in love with media at a young age, getting into media and doing media, planning and strategy and all the above, and I was very fortunate to get into it really young.

So I worked my way through college. Was able to find the fact that I loved marketing and economics, and that's amazing how that goes with media and especially in today's world cuz we are all data nerds. When you are into economics and when you are into media, you have to understand and love your data in today's world.

So, the economic side of me definitely in the statistical data and all those things, I'm definitely a stats nerd. I absolutely fell in love with that so, I started my firm a little over 12 years ago and really focus on media. That's all we do. And we got into programmatic media early and that's where we are now of being able to be one of the leaders in programmatic and being able to offer those services to multiple, multiple different brands and multiple verticals.

Michael: Real quick, rewind a little bit. Marketing and economics. Break it down to us. How does that go? Hand

Mary Ann: in hand? It, it's so funny cuz you don't actually think that it does Uhhuh. I did my thesis on recessional recovery. On the economic side. Well, guess what? And the, one of the key things of recovering from and being a company that is recovering from a recession, Is actually your marketing plan and the two go hand in hand, and we don't think of them going hand in hand.

We think, okay, marketing's over here. Economics is over here. Well, both of them are in the business sector and both of them are in that umbrella. If we actually bring them together, the knowledge that you learn in and I, I call marketing the marketing bridge. So we have all of our different pillars, everything from your name, from your website all the different things of your clients being able to find you and your potential clients being able to find you.

That's your marketing bridge. Well, media is one of those pillars and in economics, and if I look at that side of it, statistical data. Is a huge part of economics. That's what you're studying. You're studying statistics, you're studying that, those pieces of, especially in a recession various recoveries, various things that you can do with it and what better to go together.

Media is in marketing and the statistical data falls into economics and marketing as well, and that's where you have that bridge. But you have to have that bridge for you on your marketing has to have all those pillars filled and economically. We need to look at no matter what. And a lot of people are accidental business owners.

They go into a career off of something totally different. They either want to be like you're listeners, they wanna be a dentist, they want to be a medical practice, but they're never taught actually how to be a business owner. And when you think of it as having that. Bridge with all those pillars. The economic piece is there too, because depending on how the economy is doing globally and locally and nationally that's gonna be how your business is gonna do.

So what can you do? What are tactics and strategies that you can do headed into a recessional prospect or something that's gonna take place?

Michael: Oh, so what are some things we can do? Because we're like, in that situation coming in, a

Mary Ann: lot of people are So, key thing first, own your space. What is your, what is your niche?

Where are you, who's, what's your vertical that you're gonna be in? But huge piece of it is also, so know that audience, know your audience and get to know it better. And when you get to know your audience even better to that level where you can list 10 things about who your ideal customer is, and you can have that full line out there to be able to do it, you will be able to strategically build content that will reach them.

You will be able to have your ad buys be more strategically done. One thing that I think is really imperative actually, especially in the dental space, in the dental practice and the medical space, is that we don't actually think of media as being a positive necessarily paid media specifically, because, you know, if I'm good enough as a dentist or if I'm good enough as a doctor, I don't necessarily need to have media.

Right. But no, in reality in today's world, you have to have that presence out there. So how do you, how do you start building everything that you can to recover recession, even before recession starts to happen? Start building content to your, to your audience. So know that audience. Start building content to the audience and strategically start doing paid advertising with it.

I call using the paid portion of it and the paid media side of it as leapfrog. So you're gonna wanna do your ppc. So that you're showing up on searches, you're gonna wanna do some programmatic targeting. So programmatic targeting, cuz a lot of people get confused on what programmatic is. Mm-hmm. But programmatic targeting is it's a bidding process.

When I start in a media, you used to do an R F P and say, okay, TV radio station, gimme what your rates are, put the plan together and go from there. Now it just automates it where now I don't have to get a rate card from a website. I go in and I'm bidding on the individual. That I want to see the ad. So I'm bidding on that impression and I'm able to target that impression based by my audience.

So the more I know my audience, the more I can bid towards that audience and bid for that impression specifically to them. And the more first party data you have, you can also target in that manner. Do you know who, do you have email list? Do you have things that you can really target with? Do you have addresses that then we can do IP targeting with?

There's various things there. So. The one, the very first reaction of recessions are happening and recessions are about to happen. Mm-hmm. Is everybody just retreats back in and is turns into turtles and we're like, we're just gonna hold onto everything. Mm-hmm. And in reality, this is the time that you can play leapfrog and actually go above your competition, stand out a little bit more.

You just have to be strategic at it.

Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So programmatic, you mentioned something called R F P. What

Mary Ann: is that? Yeah, an RFP is request for proposal. So that would be, that was, that's the old school way of doing media. There's still ways that we would do it where you you need your television, you need your radio print, outdoor, but a lot of that's starting to move into programmatic, so you can start bidding outdoor programmatically, some TV and some radio.

You're bidding programmatically as well, but, some of the old school ways of doing it. If you need those traditional platforms, which I'm a big believer that traditional is not dead. Mm-hmm. We have traditional and digital and you ha you just need to know how to do the two together.

Michael: Gotcha. When it comes to traditional marketing, what falls under that

Mary Ann: in your eyes?

So, tv, radio, print, out of home, those are the ca billboards, various things there. Buses that falls into traditional, except for now, programmatic wise, we're able to do a lot more with that, with digital billboards and digital things that are out there that we can bid to be able to actually programmatically bid that as opposed to having to do it on the traditional front.

Michael: So how can we use both?

Mary Ann: here's the key thing. You need to use both. Mm-hmm. So again, I'm gonna go back to get to know your audience. Who is your audience? Who is it exactly that you want to reach? And we're gone in the day of thinking of just a demographic. know in a dental practice and various things that you're thinking, I just, everybody is my.

Ideal client, right? Because everybody has teeth. Well, okay, but who, when you see your patients come in, who do you know is that sweet spot client? Who is that person? That is the individual that you go, okay, that is who I want to duplicate to have in my chair all the time. Somebody who, who is easier going, maybe has a full family, that you're gonna get multiple cleanings a year out of.

What is it that you want to do there? Who is the decision maker in the household? What are the things that are taking place? Identify clearly who you want and then from there you're gonna be able to strategy reaching out into all of these different audiences that you're looking at. But it's not a demographic anymore.

Okay, so we're not looking at adults 18 to 50 fours who are reaching No, because I am gonna reach the 18 year old differently than I am the 54 year old. I'm going to more strategically say I would like to target women who are mothers at the age of 35 to 45, have two plus children in the household who maybe are employed as well have, you're giving those persona.

Identifications as opposed to just a demographic, a wide net, you're actually narrowing it down into a persona and an individual targeting system that you're looking at. So

Michael: can we come up with a plan for, for that, like specifically the example you gave us, like, well, let's just say the patient I want is.

The family, right. But I'm gonna target the, the mom or the woman. Right? And from that point on, she's making maybe like, you know, she's the other working or together as a household. They're making 150 k plus they have two children. What now do I do as far as when it comes to traditional and digital? I.

Mary Ann: So would I would a couple of things here. So unless you as a practice are investing in the multiple tools to know where she is, I would find a great partner. So there's a difference between a partner and a vendor. A vendor would be somebody that really goes into that is a TV station, that is a radio station.

Those are great people. I love 'em. They're great people. Nothing bad there. However, in this type of targeting, You want a partner that is similar to like our, our firm, where you come in and somebody can outline for you and help you. You say, okay, here's my ideal customer, and then. You're looking for a strategic partner at that point that can say, okay, then I can help build out your plan for you, and here's your strategy, here's your plan.

This is where we're going, and we're gonna base it off of what budget you wanna spend. Various things there. So there's that difference. Huge difference between the fact of having A vendor and a strategic partner. Strategic strategic partners are night and day. They're gonna be part of your team.

That's how you should be seeing them as part of your team. So when you're building this, you're looking at, okay, I wanna build my, plan towards a woman that's 35 to 45 years old. So I'm gonna look in that. She has, she's a family, family of. Four plus, you know, hold household. She works, this is her household income.

On the programmatic space. I'm actually going to be able to target based off of her income, based off of family size, based off of which neighborhood she lives in, which neighborhood she doesn't live in, what kind of car she might drive. That might be something I would put in there. Various activities.

Is she a gardener? Is she. Does she like to run as a hobby? Very. Is she outdoors? What types of targets would I look at? That I know her hobbies are you don't have to go that deep. You are fine to not, you want to know who she is for which in which you're trying to target. So the family of four, the age range where she's gonna be.

So I'm gonna actually build a model about this persona. Mm-hmm. Find out where she is, find out where she's going to be, and then from there I'm gonna figure out the programmatic tactics that are gonna work best for her. I'm gonna make sure that we have our p c, our Google and our Bing taken care of there on that front.

So if she's searching for us and she's looking for a new dentist, maybe she's even new to the area. And that's another layer of something that I wanna put in there. And making sure that it, when she's Googling, she's able to find it. And then on the traditional side. So that's all my digital stuff.

I'm gonna look programmatically, where is she? Where is it display? Is it video? Is it connected tv? What is she gonna be on? A lot? And I will tell you right now, she will be on streaming. So look at TV in that manner. And then I'm gonna go over here on the traditional side. Where is she gonna be? Now that's gonna depend on the market that I'm in.

So it's gonna be varied. And this is why a strategic partner is also important because they will have access to ratings. They will have access to information like in your market in Los Angeles. I'm gonna have access. I have access to all the numbers. I have access to all the information that I need to have.

To see who's watching what, who's listening to what, what billboards have the most traffic, what various things, what's the best place for me to place it. So in that sense, depending on the market, TV's probably not going to be your best option unless it's a live event that she's gonna listen to and watch.

Okay. But live events mean local news. It means sporting events, various things. If her kids are gonna be, if if there's a live events that kids are playing or things like that, then she might be a part of that. That's where your TV's gonna come in. When it comes to radio, that's probably where you're actually gonna reach her the most.

So you wanna make sure you have your digital portion. That, that's where you're reaching her the most. But then you're gonna back it up with your radio to make sure that she's getting high frequency over and over and over again. Cuz believe it or not, local radio is still very highly consumed and people listen to it.

People love to, especially women during covid, we saw starting to turn to local radio to find out. what the counts were in their county, what were various things that they needed to know? What were the new regulations? And these are habits that developed over such a quick period of time that kept going, that their habits are still there.

So radio's gonna be your best option. And outdoor, those are gonna be the two key things that you're gonna bring in with that. With that digital plan as well, because you wanna make sure that you have high frequency and that they're seeing, they feel like they're seeing you everywhere and they're hearing you everywhere.

It's an omnichannel approach, but you don't have to have the budget spread so thin that you're just condensing it into one area and you're making sure that your digital and your traditional are working together.

Michael: Hmm. So it feels like, man, they're everywhere, but really it's just targeted. They're going after that specific person now.

Real quick, how do you get that information when it comes to like, oh, okay, everybody in, I know all the ratings and stuff like that. Is there a place or you have to subscribe to 'em,

Mary Ann: you have to pay for 'em. Um, So that's why having a strategic partner is really important because you're having to subscribe, you're having research tools, various things we use and utilize.

This is all we do, right? So just like you would not want me put a filling into your tooth because I'm not a dentist. You don't want me to do that, right? Mm-hmm. So as dental professionals, You guys don't need to do the media. You don't need to think about that side of it or that strategy side of it.

Outsourcing it actually probably will not cost you any extra money to have that portion of it. So if you're looking at having strategy, having various things, your return on investment is so high, but also the actual placement. There's various ways that it's actually not gonna be, it's negligible in comparison to you doing it yourself.

When you think about you, let's say you're a dentist that's owning, that owns a practice, and your time and your team's time, that is going into your marketing or your media. That's a return on investment where they can be in the office doing other things. They can be doing it. They can be in the office focusing on the patients, making sure that that portion is there.

Outsource that part and find a good partner that you can trust and be a part of and work with, because that's where it goes hand in hand. That's where you need to know in today's world, collaborating together is the best way to get the most outta your business plan.

Michael: I like that. So then when it comes down to this, let's just say, Startups, right?

It's like a super lean budget. And then they're like, Marianne, like, you know, I want to, I wanna do this. My budget is like bare, bare minimum. Yeah. Can we still do that or

Mary Ann: no? Absolutely. And you should. So, knowing and starting even with a bare minimum budget, you should be looking at what are my marketing efforts that I'm gonna go into it.

You have to see it as an investment because if you are a startup, your brand recognition is zero. Nobody knows who you are. Nobody knows what you're doing. Nobody knows what your specialty is. Nobody has a clue, right? So you have to identify and know, all right, I'm going into this as a startup, I need to make sure that I am building a plan there.

Even if it's minimal, you'll wanna make sure that you're investing somewhere. So, that's again where a good strategic partner comes in because they'll be able to help you and say, okay, hey, how do I make sure. That I'm doing what I need to do with this budget. Here's this budget, this is what I have set aside.

What can I do with it? But that's where a good strategic partner will be able to say, okay, here's a few options for you. It's not necessarily just cookie cutter. This is the only thing for you. It's making sure that there's a few options.

Michael: Okay. I like that. And now, Maybe this has happened to you before, but you know how sometimes you're like, this is my target, this is who I want to get.

You get them, but then, you know, other people start hearing Yep. Maybe not in that age range or anything like that, and then they, they come in and you're like, oh, I love this type of patient too. Yep. Different generations, right. Is there a specific type of marketing for that? Yes. Or do we have to change it, or how does that

Mary Ann: look?

No, no. In fact, you don't wanna change it. So you want to stay steady where you are. And I called that your baseline plan. So that's your baseline targeter and who you're targeting. So you're, you're gonna target this baseline plan, who is your ideal customer? From there, you can have multiple targets and multiple personas that you're looking at.

So if you start to see, hey, This audience segment is actually influencing the family as well. And now I'm growing as a firm. Now I'm growing as a practice. I actually have a little bit more money that I can invest in this target as well. So it's a layer. So you're gonna start with your foundation, and especially if you're a startup, start with that foundation and then you're building to get to that point, right?

And you're gradually adding things to it. When you're marketing and your media budget start to shrink back. As a practice, no matter how long you've been in, you really need to look at that and assess it and decide why am I wanting to shrink back? Do I think that it's actually because I don't need any more customers, that I don't need any more patients?

Well, in reality, you actually, the longer you've been around, the more you actually are going to have to promote to get new customers and to get new patients. You have to keep it going. It's not something that is a set and forget it, and it's not something that you start and pause. You actually need consistent branding and consistent media out there for you especially in today's world and especially with how many competitors you will have in a market.

Michael: Mm. Gotcha. Okay. I like that. And then I know like a lot of the times we tend to, you've seen it, right? Traditional has been evolving into like what it is now, digital and things like that. People are on social media and you know, all these other platforms and everything like that. Is there a specific one where you're like, Hey, look, you need a focus.

Everybody should be focusing on this media right now, at least, or is there a best one? Worst

Mary Ann: one, each one has its strengths, right? So it depends on its goals. You're looking at traditional, I talked about traditional, a little bit of what the strengths are there. TV you're looking at live events.

That's where your strength is. If your target audience is men, television still is pretty highly consumed by men. Mostly in the live sports arena, and that's where you're gonna be. Although we see an increase in female numbers too with live sports. So across the board, that's where you're gonna see that.

And then in radio it's more informational. So your weather updates, your traffic updates, those types of things that you're gonna see that are key for you to be a part of in radio. Now when it comes to programmatic, right now, you, no matter what, you need to be looking at programmatic, you need to be looking at Google p c being p ppc, very sync.

So, paper per click and seo. That's what you need to be looking at. But programmatic is where that is the future of media. That is the future of how we're consuming when I started my career, well over 20 years ago. Programmatic was not an option. Obviously, it wasn't anything that you could really do.

You had, your f. Few options. It's pretty much four. That's it. And that's what you were gonna buy in every market. Now you have so many options of what you can do and go after and target. So programmatic is definitely something that you need to be looking at. Social platforms, I'm going to say this as loud as I possibly can.

Social platforms are no longer a targeting tool. Social platforms are a branding tool. Overall brand recognition period. Do not try to use it as a targeting tool. There is no longer availability or possibility with cookies, with various things on Facebook that you cannot target the same way you can. We can do lookalike audiences, various things there on social media.

Mm-hmm. But that's not a targeting tool like it used to be. Programmatic is now your targeting tool. That's where you want to use. You're targeting and that's where you wanna use your focus, not social media. So each one has its strength, each area has its strength. But if you're not doing something digitally, you definitely need to refocus and do something digitally.

Hmm.

Michael: Okay. So when people say sometimes, cuz there's a lot of types of like. Influencer marketing on social media, then people I know we, we know a couple dentists who they say like, yeah, you know, my new patients from like Instagram. That's more cuz of like brand awareness

Mary Ann: or It is. It absolutely is. So it, there is nothing wrong with that.

And there is nothing wrong with influencers. We do a lot in the influencer space. There is nothing wrong with that. You just wanna use it correctly. It is not the same targeting tool that it once was, and that's what you need to think about it. If you have first party data, if you have emails, you have various things there.

Algorithms are gonna show how things are targeted to that and what. In that sense where the algorithms are gonna pick it up, but you as a marketer are not gonna be able to use it the same level that you've done before. When and when I'm talking targeting, I'm talking like the multiple layers of targeting of who my ideal customer is.

Not just broad, I'm talking very, very in depth. That's where programmatic comes in space now, and that's where that it's starting to take over in that area. Instagram's a great place for you to be and if that is where you're getting most of your customers, great. keep budget in Instagram, keep budget on Facebook.

However past that, add programmatic for that additional targeting of that customer and where they're gonna go. Again, it's that omnichannel approach cuz now I'm able to actually target them in even further and to be able to go down that path with programmatic.

Michael: Okay, so you said use it correctly. Social.

What, what have you seen where you're like, oh my gosh, you're using it super, not even good. You know what I mean? What are the pros and cons

Mary Ann: of that? So you wanna make sure, again, you're thinking brand recognition more than you are. Very specific. Targeting and who you're, who you're looking at, but your content still needs to be specific to who you wanna talk to.

That's where, so yes, it's overall branding. However, your content needs to be driven to that target audience, no matter what platform you're on, because if they do see it, if they, if it comes across their path, that's where that targeting. Message point comes in. So when it's done poorly is when it's a very broad message.

Mm-hmm. As opposed to a very targeted message, meaning your message itself is talking to a specific person. Even if you're using a broad platform or a branding platform when it's done best videos work really well, more than still images. We know that, we know statistically speaking. And 15 seconds or less is what you wanna do.

And what you can look at too, if you are doing videos, if you have that kind of content that you're putting out there, absolutely. Look at adding a programmatic pre-roll layer to that, or a connected TV layer to that, because that's where you're gonna target your audience. Audience even further.

Michael: Okay?

When it comes to tv, especially streaming, how expensive is that?

Mary Ann: So now programmatically when it comes to streaming, that's how you're getting streaming tv. for the most part, so you do have your local TV vendors that you can still work with that are various things. I would actually suggest not buying programmatic through them.

I would suggest finding a strategic partner to buy it through that has a direct seat on a d s DSP and that you're able to use use that instead. The buying directly through the vendor, your cpm or cost per impression, is usually, typically higher and not necessarily, as quality. It can be, but not necessarily.

So when you're buying it on the programmatic side, you have a little bit more controls of what you can do, but you are buying it by the impression. So it actually buying streaming TV can actually be more affordable than you would think. Specifically. If I'm gonna take a step back and not talk just tv, connected TV or O t t, which is over the top television.

If I'm looking at pre-roll, that's actually more affordable than people realize or recognize. So those are 15 seconds, 15 second ads that are gonna run before another ad or are gonna insert site an ad. Right. So pre or mid-roll. And those are the ones that you also need to think about. It's not as expensive as you would think.

Digital has allowed it to be more affordable that we are able to build budgets based off of what your size is. Based off of what kind of budget you have to actually make it a strategic plan no matter what size the budget is.

Michael: Oh, actually, okay. So that would be like Hulu, places like that, right?

Cause I don't know if, does Netflix even have commercials or no? I don't know.

Mary Ann: Not yet. They'll, they, so you have your Amazon Prime, so you've got your Hulu, you've got your Amazon, but you also then have, if you're a direct seat on A D S P, you have anything that's streaming all the various.

There's tons of streaming outlets that are out there.

Michael: What, what does D S P stand

Mary Ann: for? D S P is demi demand side platform, and that is the bidding capability that takes place. It's literally, software and automation that allows you to bid in the programmatic space. And it's, it's very expensive to be, to don't.

As a dental practice, I would not suggest you trying to do it yourself because, and find a partner that is a direct seat and that's a question that you wanna ask. Are you a direct seat? And that way you have that capability of having that team because it's a good couple million dollar investment to be able to do that.

But you wanna make sure that you have that that capability because then you have somebody, if they've built their team correctly, they're optimizing, they're doing various things for you on your behalf every day.

Michael: Wait, so it's a million dollars for the practice or no. For you,

Mary Ann: for the, like, you, so, so to be a direct seat is not, it's not.

It is not cheap. It is, it's okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. So find a partner that's a direct seat. Mm-hmm. As opposed to you trying to do it yourself. Yeah. I would assume you'll, you'll take advantage of the fact if you don't, if you don't have a large budget, and even if you do have a large budget, but it's not in the millions and we're talking millions, not just a million, we're talking millions.

If it's not in that category, then you need to think about what kind of strategies you wanna have in partnering with. Being able to get that done. Plus you have to have the team on top of it to optimize and to be able to do all the bidding and to be able to do the work.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I know, yeah, especially if you're starting up or anything like that, it's not gonna be in the millions, right?

Like the No.

Mary Ann: Correct. And nor should it be. You don't need to be in the millions. Um, So find a partner that is that direct seat for you that is able to, they take their volume. So if you work with us, we take our volume and we, we do. Millions and tens and twenties and you know, we are over a hundred million at times.

That's what, kind of work we do in placement. So take the advantage of our millions and be able to place. Mm-hmm. So take advantage of how much we are placing. On behalf get on our backs of being able to negotiate that for you and use our leverage overall of what we're able to do, as opposed to you trying to spend a couple thousand dollars to be able to get the same kind of leverage, you're not going to.

Michael: Yeah. But I appreciate that, Marianne. I appreciate that. Like we can tell you, this is who my, this is who I wanna see. Right? And then you can kind of create something and then say, this is the routes we need to go through. Instead of me going like, I want. You know, Google ads and then at the same time, I, I want social media marketing and they're like, okay, it's gonna cost you this much and this mu, you know what I mean?

Kind of thing. Yeah. It's a different

Mary Ann: approach. It's very stressful actually. So when you are starting a practice, especially a startup, but even if you're mid practice, if you're a few years in and you're looking, okay, we're about to hit a recession, I need to revamp and rebrand, whatever it is I need to do or just retarget of where I need to be.

Having a strategic partner that can outline all of it for you is better than you going, Hey, social media person. Hey Google person. Hey and hey, programmatic person. Hey TV person. That's stress on you and your staff, where that can be you providing more services to your patients, your staff, providing more services to your patients.

It's more efficient and it's, it's be, it's offering better efficiency for your patients, but it's also a better investment for you to be actually working with a partner to get it done as opposed to distributing it and, Just you trying to keep track of all of it or having your own in-house person. The other piece is having your own in-house marketing person.

That can be a benefit. However, at the same time, you wanna make sure that you're, you're still doing your media practices and the media things that you need to do because you're gonna lose your audience. You need to stay consistent in that, your in-house person needs a strategic partner in media.

Media is very specialized today, and you still need that in-house partner for your media.

Michael: Yeah, I agree. So then what can a dentist do today to improve their marketing?

Mary Ann: So first, evaluate it, look and see where it is. If you're a startup. Make sure that it's included in your plans. Make sure that you market the media portion of your marketing plan is there and make sure that there is budget set aside for it.

But if you're, if you're a practice that's been a practice for a couple of years, make sure that you reevaluate regularly. So look at it and say, okay, every year, what options do I wanna look at? What do I wanna make sure I increase? What do I make sure? Where has my audience shifted? What are various things that I need to, I do, I have my foundational audience and I need to maybe add some layers on top of it.

So reevaluate. Find that partner that can help you evaluate, find that unbiased and treat that partner like they're part of the team. That's the key thing. A lot of times that relationship and where it doesn't go as well is when you're looking at the partner almost like, oh, you're just a check. I have to cut.

Mm-hmm. And in reality, don't think of it as just a check. You have to cut it. Think of it as that's what's getting customers and patients through my door. That is a funnel process that's taking place and. You, if you feel, eh, that's just a partner, that's just, that's not a partner, that's just a check. I have to cut, reevaluate that relationship as well.

Reevaluate. I want a partner, I want somebody who I feel good about it, but also make sure that you have an open heart to have a partner with it. Not to just say, Ugh, you know, and have that, make sure we're your mi your mindset's in the right place. frankly, Dentists have a huge opportunity in their media and their marketing.

Mm-hmm. Huge opportunities because there's a lot of targeting that you can do based off of dental habits based off of various things in the programmatic space that you can look at and say, you know, where are, what are some things that they've done habit wise over the last year, a couple years that we can target.

There's blueprinting where you can even target. Competitors locations for ads to be served about you. When somebody walks through a door you can also use blueprinting to track people coming into your door. How do, how are they coming in? How is that happening? So on the digital side, there's so many options and dentists have huge amounts of options in that space.

Michael: Okay. I like that. It, it is interesting you say that. I, I always wanted to know, like from the agency side, from you, especially working with practices and things like that. Where do you see the ball being dropped when it comes to like, Hey, you know what I, and then they may, I mean, maybe it could be the agency's ball or maybe it not, you know what I mean?

So where do you see the ball being dropped?

Mary Ann: So I think the ball is being dropped when in. I can completely understand this because I'm a business owner, right? And I'm running a business myself, and at times as the business owner, which you as the doctor of the practice, if it is your practice, you're the business owner.

And sometimes we can be distracted by the business portion of it as opposed to, okay, what is our marketing? Which at the end of the day is what drives our sales and gets people in the door. So when you have that meeting with your partner once a month, once a quarter, whatever it is, that's set up for you.

Take advantage of that time. A lot of times where the Dr. Ball is dropped is when the dentists or whoever it is that's marketing just sees it as the marketing meeting for the month where that person is only answering to them of telling them, updating them. No. Take advantage of that partnership time of the, I'm thinking this, I'm thinking this, I'm thinking this.

Take advantage. Have notes. Be prepared yourself, not just them. Be prepared for you. Now that being said, On the other side of it, if they're coming to your marketing meetings and they're not prepared, they're not showing reports, they're not showing insights, they're not showing you things of what's been taking place, you need to evaluate that relationship as well.

So there, it's both sides of the coin here, but you have to do multiple things, um, to be able to do it. You as the doctor, need to be prepared at that marketing meeting to ask tough questions and to write them down, because in between, from meeting to meeting, you will have thoughts, oh, I need to talk to so-and-so about that.

I need to talk to 'em about this. Write them down. Have a marketing list and a media list for your partner and for your team. And then when you're in those meetings and when you're in there, you're prepared, you're ready to go. And you can say, okay, I was thinking this. I was thinking this. I was thinking this.

And you'll get that collaboration back and forth. So where I see the ball drop the most is doctors that are checking the list as opposed to wanting a partner that will collaborate with them. Find that marketing strategic partner that's going to collaborate with you and work with you. Take advantage of that.

When they are sitting there for that meeting with you, take advantage of the fact that they can collaborate with you.

Michael: Okay, I like that. Now these next questions are just to get into the head of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side of dentistry. What would you Marianne like to see more from a dentist?

Ooh.

Mary Ann: So I think where I see it go well is where every dentist, I think mm-hmm. Wants it to be, well, I go to Dr. So-and-so and I'm not going anywhere else. That's Dr. So-and-so where you trust them so much that they're not, they are not gonna switch. Mm-hmm. Where they don't wanna see is the sale is hard on them, right?

So they don't wanna see, Hey, you're a new dentist that I've never gone to. I'm here, but now all of a sudden I have. Four cavities and I need a crown. I'm very confused. Where six months ago I didn't need any of that. Can you explain why? So you have to approach if there's a need and if there's something that is there.

Automatically people kind of question things. We are, we as human beings analyze, we overanalyze, hence actually why media consumption is at an all-time high. Because in Covid we analyzed everything and we wanted to gather information. That's what we do to survive, right? Mm-hmm. But in this case, When you, when I can trust my dentist for anything, I don't care what my dentist is like.

I have that kind of a relationship personally with my dentist. Mm-hmm. No matter what he says to do, I will do it. And because he's telling me that, and I've trusted him for years in that, I've had dentists in the past where I'm like, Hmm, I don't trust that. I don't like it. I'm not sure it's there. Right.

Whether or not that was real. But in reality, it's how you talk to your patients and it's how you communicate to your parent patients and explain to your patients what services they need that is gonna build that trust. Don't underestimate the the message when you are talking to your patient when they're in the chair.

Don't underestimate that when your technicians and your hygiene technicians are talking to them in their chair. Don't underestimate that communication and how important that form of communication actually is. Are you, as the, are your hygienists getting to know your patients well? Are they getting to know the personal side of their life?

Are they, they're in the chair for a while? Yes. Your hands are in their mouth, but they're in the chair for a while. There are things you can get to know. The hygienists that AC that usually are the best. Talk about the patient. They don't talk about themselves, they talk about the patient, and then what information is that that can then go to the doctor and then the doctor gets to know the patient.

Right? That's where, on that side of it, don't underestimate the client relation side. Think of your patient as a client, not just a patient that is a client that you wanna have returned customers from. Mm-hmm. Ok. And they're the biggest referral. They're the biggest referrals. They will refer you all day long.

Michael: Yeah. No, I really appreciate that, that that's, that's true. When it comes to the two that you mentioned, like the practices, what were you noticing with the dentist where it's like, I guess the communication was, was completely different.

Mary Ann: So I'll tell you, and my, my dentist now, his name's Dr. Clark, love him.

Love to give him a shout out whenever I possibly can. That's my personal dentist, right? Yeah. And he is a phenomenal communicator, but he tells me, Hey, this is what we're seeing. This is what's going on. This is where things need to be. My whole family, we all trust him in that because of how he honestly communicates, to me, he makes me feel like, okay, I understand, and that's what's really important as opposed to where I've had doctors or dentists.

It's not just in the dental field, it's all across the board. This is what you need and this is why, and it's not even, this is why it's, this is what you need. And a lot of patients are confused because it's not their profession, it's not what they do. And as dentists and as medical professionals, take a step back and remember, your patients are not dentists, your patients are not in the dental practice, they actually don't understand.

Mm-hmm. And nor should they understand they're hiring you for your expertise, for you to explain it to them, for you to tell them why their son has four cavities. It stinks. We've done, we've even done, we've done the fluoride treatments in the past, but this is what's happened. He's six, this is, it's his baby teeth, you know, whatever.

Explain all those things to them. They don't know, and you're assuming that they know they don't remember. You are the one that is the expert in the room at that point. Own that expertise. Just like how when somebody comes to me and they're a dentist and they're a dental practice. Own the fact that in media, you don't have to be the expert in that.

And that's okay. I should be explaining it to you. My team should be explaining it to you in that, and in that mindset. Yeah.

Michael: Okay. Okay. And so the next question is, what do you hate or dislike about dentistry? Ooh.

Mary Ann: Well, nobody likes to get any kind of certain treatments done, but mm-hmm. I'll tell you this though.

I mean, if you've had, and I've been very blessed with good teeth, knock on wood. and still in my forties only have had one cavity, so I'm, I'm happy with that. So, I mean, I'll, I'll be, I, I take that, I'll, I'll wear the little badge of pride, although I'm not as good as my husband who has never had a cavity.

Wow. But whatever. Not fair at all. But anyway, he says it's because of the fluoride and the water in Anchorage. He grew up in Anchorage. But anyway, so that being said, things that you hate, I think it is that bad communication. That's where it's always gone wrong for me with any type of medical practice or any kind of dentist.

And this is me personally, If there's not that good communication, that clear communication that makes me feel safe, that makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing for my health that is clearly communicating that that's what I don't like. That's where, and frankly, that's no patient likes that.

Michael: Okay. Gotcha. So no, kinda like just bland communication where you feel like, all right, we gotta get in, get out, boom. Kind

Mary Ann: of thing. Yeah. You don't wanna feel, you don't want to feel like cattle moving in and out. Mm-hmm. And. There, there are. Now I will say this, there are some dental practices that have worked really well and efficient of getting people in and out, but there's still moments for that personal touch so that you can get people quickly in and out, but them still feel like they're getting that customer service or that attention that they want.

They want that attentive acknowledgement of what they're feeling, what they're seeing, what's going on.

Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And then, so what do you absolutely love about dentistry?

Mary Ann: What do I love about dentistry? Mm-hmm. Actually, the fact that you can build relationships and long-term relationships within dentistry.

So another thing I love about dentistry is the things that you can absolutely find out with the health of the body by finding out what's going on in the mouth and people. Don't. They just underestimate and average patients don't understand that there are so many different things that dentists find and save lives every day, and people forget about that.

They don't know that they don't recognize it, but if you actually get into people's stories with heart disease or various things, they can tell you, and those are stories for you as dentists to be telling of, he saved my life because he saw this. And he saved my life because he saw this. Mm-hmm. That's a big deal.

Those are things, other things that are happening in the body that dentists can actually identify and send them to a great expert outside of that.

Michael: Yeah. Awesome. Wonderful. Maryanne, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you?

Mary Ann: Absolutely. So you can go to our website, which is mosaic.agency/contact. That comes directly to my, to my email. So mosaic.agency/contact. You can find me on Twitter at Medium apps. Follow me. We put out tips every day. And information every week. You can also, if you email, if you go to mosaic.agency/contact, you will be able to get your email added to our email list.

We put out email blasts every week that give information on media and various things that are going on. And then find me on LinkedIn. I love to connect uh, Maryanne Pruit, and you'll find me right there. Mosaic Media. And we, I love to connect. I love to brainstorm. If you have questions in your dental practice of how is your media working, if you want a free assessment, let us know.

Michael: Awesome. So guys, as always, that's gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely go check that out. And Marianne, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon.

Mary Ann: Thank you, Michael. I really appreciate it.

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Welcome to this week's Monday Morning Marketing episode! I'm joined by my good friend, Shane Simmons, and today we're going to explore the untapped potential of your online presence and SEO! We are hashing out the importance of tracking patient traffic and learning the nuts and bolts of an effective Search Engine Optimization campaign. In today's world, Google Maps is such a prominent part of our everyday lives, so we are going to show how YOU can best leverage it. From best practices for Google Maps, to SEO strategies we think are outdated, we're diving in the deep end today. Don't miss this opportunity to make your Google Business listing a valuable tool for growth in the digital age.

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Catch my conversation with Shane for some of his best strategies to thrive in the ever-evolving world of digital marketing!

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You can reach out to Shane Simmons here:

Website: https://www.crimsonmediagroup.com/

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Other Mentions and Links:

Google Maps

Google My Business

Yelp

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If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:

My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/

The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

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Michael: Hey Shane. So talk to us about s e O. How can we utilize this, or what advice, suggestions, or methods can you give us that will help us actually attract new patients through

Shane: s E O? Yeah. You know, Michael, this is one of the things that in the marketing landscape, we see so much change year after year, month after month, and new technology come in and, and out and, and everything's always and in flux.

But SEO has always stayed top importance for many dental practices because Google still is one of the main drivers of new patients. And so today what I really want to share with your audience is some of the insights that I've learned from. From people who are plugged into Google on what are some things that you can do to help get more new patients organically, specifically through the Google Maps, uh, or map pack as many people call it.

So it's kind of a brief overview. I won't spend too much time on this, but, you know, and, and your s e o um, you know, you have two different. Areas really. You have your search results, which are like your websites that show up. Mm-hmm. You know, on the first page. And then you also have, especially for local businesses, what we call the Google Map Pack, which is like, you know, if you searched dentists near me right now, you would see, you know, three practices show up with their Google reviews, and then you may see one, you know, ad right above that.

And I'm gonna focus today on that Google Map Pack because it's something that Google is putting more priority on because they control it, right? They own your Google Map listing, whereas they don't own your website, and so they want you to be in engaging with patients and updating that Google business profile.

Just like you would update your website. And so there are a few things that I'm gonna talk about that can really help you, um, show up in that organically and not only show up, but actually get patients from it. Um, the first thing, and this is I think probably the most common way that people associate, using your Google business profile is, You gotta be getting Google reviews.

I don't think there's any, surprise there about that. but not only is it the practice that gets the most reviews or has the most reviews, but there's two other factors here that's gonna determine showing up. One is what we call review velocity. So it's how often are those reviews coming in?

Um, so sometimes. If you see especially like older practices that have 500 Google reviews and you see a practice that has a hundred Google reviews above it, and people will ask us, well, why is the practice that has 500 reviews below the practice that has a hundred? And one of the reasons for that could be the fact that the practice with a hundred got that a hundred much quicker than the practice who got that 500.

So review velocity is a big portion there. That's why we recommend having some sort of. Review automation system in place to where yes, you want your team asking for reviews, but you need to have an automated system in place because that is one of the big factors that Google's looking at and, and ranking you in that map area.

the second thing kind of tied to reviews is, the type of reviews that are left. So, uh, yes, somebody could leave you a five star review, but what we have found is if somebody in that review, mentions like a keyword, for example, that you're trying to rank for, that has an impact on whether or not you're showing up in the maps or not.

So a perfect example of this is if somebody were to leave a review and they just said, great office, amazing doctor, you know, highly recommend. That's a great review. But if that person said, Hey, if you're looking for a dentist in Indianapolis, I highly suggest, you know, Crimson Dental office that has the keywords, dentists in Indianapolis, within that review.

And that's something that Google is taking into consideration when, uh, ranking these different businesses in the Google Map pack. So that's the second thing. And then, I would say the third on this is your Google business profile. We need to treat it like our website. So remember, you know, years ago, uh, it was imperative.

You had to blog, you had to blog every 30 days, um, and, and continually update and update content. And while blogs certainly have value on websites today, It's essentially that is turned into what you need to be doing with your Google business profile, which is adding update posts to that profile every 30, 45, 60 days or so, adding your services to your Google business profile, adding products on your Google business profile.

And the cool thing about this, Michael, is. Google, literally like on a silver platter, hands this to you and says, here are the things that you need to do to optimize your profile to make it as effective as it can be. If you are signed into your Google account and you Google your practice, you'll see your Google business.

pop up and there's like a bunch of different settings at the top now where it says, reviews, performance, all of these different things. Right below that, there's boxes of different things that'll say, you know, add a map, add an update, add a product or service, add a promotion, and they're literally right in front of your face and everybody should go in and be filling those out regularly and updating those regularly.

To show Google that your profile is active, that you're an active business, and ultimately what Google's going to do is see who's most active on those Google business profiles versus those that that aren't active at all. Who's getting reviews, who's not getting reviews, and all of these things together.

Start to impact where you're showing up in those Google search results. So the biggest key takeaway that I could give people in the short amount of time is make sure that your Google business profile is optimized. Make sure you're filling out all the information that Google's really looking for, cuz they're telling you right there in those settings.

And, and make sure that you're, you're getting that updated regularly updating it just like you would regularly update your website.

Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So mainly those three factors have to be, and it all kind of revolves around at least this part right here revolves around the reviews, right?

Like the review velocity, keywords in the review, and then blogs and updates, uh, post every 30 to six, one to two months, right, kind of thing. now when it comes to keywords in the reviews, I guess how can we make sure they are doing that? Or is that just kind of like, we just hope like they're two words.

Shane: That, that's a good question. Some of it is hope, um, right. So some of that is, is hope, but some of it is with some of your patients that maybe you, um, you are closer with and maybe you've, you know, seen over the years you have a really, you know, good relationship with them. Just letting them know like, Hey, you know, this really helps us, if you do leave us a review, if you just mention something about, looking for a dentist in Our city, our location. it helps, us tremendously when you do it that way. So you don't have to, you know, force or make people do it. But if you just ask, you know, if, if that's a way that they could write that review, if they're going to leave you a review, uh, that's a great way to, to do that.

Otherwise, uh, some of that just kind of happens naturally. Now. One thing that you can do is you can reply using some of those keywords as well. Now you don't want to keyword stuff. I'm not saying that. But let's say if somebody left that review of, you know, amazing Office, I had a, a great experience.

I highly recommend. You can reply to that review, which everybody should reply to their reviews and say something like, thank you so much for choosing our, you know, Indianapolis dental practice. Like we can't wait to see you again soon. So you can still reply with a keyword like that in your review, which is also going to be helpful and show relevance to Google.

Michael: Yeah. Okay. I remember working for a practice and. You know how like there's like smaller, not smaller holidays, but like we're not off for like the whole week or two weeks, or even if that was the case, it was more like if we're not shut down for like a couple months, but if we're only off for like a day or two cuz of a holiday or something like that, all they told me was to like, Hey, just update the voicemail.

Right? Just say, Hey, we're closed for the Christmas holiday or whatever. Right? But we never really updated the. The Google business page. Now, if we're off, let's just say like, oh, you know, the doctor's taking a vacation, uh, and then the team decides to take off, although there's no holiday or anything. Or even if there was like one like Labor Day, would it still help to mention on there, like, we gotta adjust it, the timing?

Or is it like, eh, it's just gonna take day, it's more work? Or, or no.

Shane: Yeah. As far as like on the Google Business Profile listing? Yeah.

Michael: Like having to go all the way and

Shane: change it. Yeah, no, I definitely recommend that because a, again, it one, I mean, it's beneficial to people who are doing a search and like next week for example.

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, being, uh, July 4th, uh, and then many offices are taking off. The third and the fifth as well. I'm seeing that. So if you're going to be closed those days, you need to go into your Google business profile and adjust that, uh, accordingly and let, um, Google know that you're gonna be off those days.

And that does two things. One, I mean, it's gonna benefit. somebody who's doing a search maybe on Monday, and maybe they had a, an emergency and they searched dentist near me. And let's say your shows up and it says that you're open and then they call and you're actually not open. You know, that's gonna be frustrating for the patient.

but the second thing is it counts as an update. Uh, you know, Google seeing that you're using that platform to update searchers on, whether you're going to be open or not. And so it has. Two benefits there. And all of those benefits are gonna tie back to, local, you know, SEO results and how you're going to show up.

And one thing I, I wanted to mention too, on all of this is the key in knowing, whether or not the things that you're doing on your Google business profile, like whether or not it's making a difference or not. Everybody should have, you know, tracking set up in, in any of your marketing, because if you don't, you just, you don't know what's really bringing patients in.

You can ask patients, and we always say, you know, ask patients, how did you hear about us? But let's be honest, sometimes it's hard for patients to remember where maybe they first ran into you or how they first, you know, found you online. And so that's where, you know, having call tracking set up and your Google business profile and your website, all of these things, so you can know specifically where all of these patients are coming from.

And with the Google Business profile, this is something that a lot of people get mixed up on because. There's this thing called, you know, NAP consistency, which is name, address, phone number, and, and it being consistent on the web. And a lot of people would never put a tracking number on their Google business page because they wanted that consistency.

Well, now Google offers an option where you can put a tracking number on your Google business profile and still have your primary number, listed on there as well. But anybody who calls from the Google business profile will call the tracking number, and then you would know who called from that. So then you can actually measure, you know, hey, we had, you know, 15 calls in June from our Google business profile, and we've been doing these things that I.

Heard on the Dental Marketer podcast and in July we had, uh, 30 calls, you know, and so you can actually measure that and, and listen to those calls too. So that's something I just wanted to mention that's so important is, is having that call tracking set up so you can actually, you know, get measurable, uh, results from what you're doing.

Michael: Nice. Okay. And now is there any minimal things that don't really move the needle but that have been over-glorified a little bit that you've been seeing?

Shane: Yeah. You know, I think that one of them is, uh, citations or, you know, getting your practice listed on different directories. There's value to it.

So, don't take it as, that's not valuable, but, The fact that you have to build out, 700 different listings, um, it's just, it's just not true. And, and Google's even come out and said that it's more so of being listed on the high authoritative sites, um, the ones that are really strong.

So think of your. Facebooks your Instagrams, you know, your, uh, Yelps, even though I know there's a lot of controversy around Yelp, but at least just having like a profile. Uh, these are things that are important to kind of build that credibility with Google, but some of these sites that are like nobody's ever heard of, and then, you know, people tell you, oh, you need to have a profile on these sites for seo.

It, it really doesn't move the needle anymore, on some of those. So just wanna make sure that. You know, and you can Google this and look up, uh, you know, what are the most authoritative free directory sites and just making sure that you're built out on those, keeping those updated consistently is, is really one of the main things that you can do, especially for, uh, a newer practice right off the bat.

That's something that's really important. Ah,

Michael: so Shannon, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, where can they reach out to you directly?

Shane: Yeah, so they can always, uh, go to our website, crimson media group.com. And of course for the, the Dental Marketer, uh, podcast listeners, we always, um, offer, you know, free marketing analysis for their practice.

So you can reach out there and, and get that analysis done. And then you can also, uh, find me in the dental, uh, marketer Facebook group as well, Shane Simmons.

Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below. So Shane, I appreciate it. Thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode.

Thanks, Michael.

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Today I want to tell you about our sponsor for this episode,  Olsen  Dental  Chairs!

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Imagine you're a dentist and you spend your whole day around the chair...   Well, Olsen has over  40 years of experience in making those long hours as comfortable as possible for both the dentist  and the patient!

‍If you're a dental professional looking for high quality, cost effective, dental equipment, check out Olson dental chairs!

Click this link and mention this episode for a limited time FREE installation with your purchase!

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Guest: Simon CortesBusiness Name: OlsenCheck out Simon's Media:

Website: https://olsenna.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100083386410139

‍Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cevi_dental/

‍LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/cevi-dental/

‍YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@cevi_dental

Florida Dental Convention 6/29-7/1: https://www.floridadental.org/convention-ce/convention

Ohio Dental Convention 9/21-9/23: https://www.oda.org/events-ce/annual-session/

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Other Mentions and Links:

Bosch Motors

Google My Business

Dave Ramsey

Traction - Gabriel Weinberg

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Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer

Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society

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My Key Takeaways:

• Simplicity is key! If your dental equipment has tons of complexity to it's design, there are more things that can go wrong.
• Potential patients will primarily be looking things up on their phones. Take this into account with a robust Google My Business page!
• Showing off your office with a 360 virtual tour can be a great way for potential patients to see themselves in the practice.
• Don't forget to add a personal touch to all your branding! A unique online and in-person presence is more important than ever.
• If your dental chair costs more than a car, that's too much!

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Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]

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p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guests, Simon Cortes. Simon, how's it going? Pretty good. Pretty good. Michael, how are you doing? I'm doing pretty good, man. Thanks for asking. If you can tell us a little bit about your past, present, how did you get to where you are today?

Simon: Definitely. Thanks for asking Michael. So I'm an entrepreneur in the medical space. have been in the medical space actually since I was 19. I'm 29 now, and we run a successful business for the last 10 years. We have, uh, enjoyed selling new and refurbished medical equipment to the medical providers and we are now expanding to dental and, and that's why we're here.

And so we're super excited to talk about this new brand with you.

Michael: Nice dude. Real quick, rewind. How'd you get into this at 19?

Simon: So, um, I, I had the blessing that, um, I've enjoyed selling and since I was very young, I've always sold something in school selling, gum, selling, anything you can think of. And so when I got into high school, a little bit older, I actually started selling cars and I, I started, I did really well there. And then I worked for a medical equipment company that did imaging. And from there, I started seeing an opportunity in, in procedure chairs, I bought a chair and did well, bought a second one, did well, bought a third one, did pretty good.

Then I, I dropped outta college and said, I'm gonna jump in a truck, drive all the country and sell medical equipment. So it's been awesome. It's, it is been fun. It's been a great journey and, um, we, we've grown a lot. We've had a fantastic years. And it's, it's been fun. Uh, it is the cool thing, you know, when you're not, when you're go to school, when you don't learn these things.

there there's a lot of learning curves and so we, we've learned from the good, we've learned from the bad and, and we've built from it. And so thankfully we have a very successful business because of it.

Michael: Gotcha, man. And so when did Olson come out to be?

Simon: So last year, Olsen came to look for me and we, met in my office. They, they saw what we did. they met me. They, they enjoyed the energy that, that I brought. They enjoyed the experience. They enjoyed my story. And so we started talking about dental.

always wanted to get into dental. I never did dental refurbished just because we didn't want to deal with all the hoses, the biosecurity and, and, and deal with all that. And so Olson just, they came in, they showed me an amazing product. Their quality was awesome, their, how simple their equipment was. And so because of that I was like, this is interesting.

Because I do refurbishing. I know chairs, motors, PC boards, like it's the back of my hand. I'm a huge nerd when it comes to these things. And so because of that, I've enjoyed, seeing the Olsen products, how they're built, how they're made, and, and really seeing the quality of their equipment. And so because of that, I went to Brazil.

I, I met the Olsen team. I met Mr. Olson, and I just fell in love with the product. And because of that, I spent lots of my time, pushing their product, advertising their products, and speaking to dentists, and I've enjoyed it.

Michael: Nice, man. That's good. So then Olson came onto your team where you started selling their equipment and everything like that?

A year, about a year ago. About a year ago.

Simon: Yes sir. Yeah,

Michael: Uhhuh. Okay man. Good stuff. So then what have you seen, I guess compared to, uh, cuz that's the thing a lot of, uh, practice owners kind of talk about, right? Is like, is it affordable? Yeah. Check, right? Is it high quality, advanced technology? is it ergonomic?

All these things, right? Do patients care? And then we get those people who are like, ma'am, just have a chair, right? Patients ain't gonna, ain't gonna notice a difference or anything like that. So what are your thoughts on all this?

Simon: So being in the dental industry for a year now, it's crazy the price of these chairs.

Mm-hmm. I'm a firm believer, you shouldn't have to buy a dental chair that costs more than a car. I mean, I've seen some of these chairs that cost more than a 12 year old of Corolla, 2022. I mean, that's insane. And so what I love about Olsen is that, you know, it's a great chair.

They use Bosch Motors, which Bosch is a well known manufacturer all over the world. They have a modern design and their pricing is super competitive. And so because of that, it's something I enjoyed. One of the main features I really do enjoy for dentists, I like to fix things, and I've met lots of dentists that like to fix things.

I've met a lot of doctors that like to fix things, and when you can fix something, it's easy. The newer chairs, they're making everything high end, right? They're putting too much technology in it, making it difficult, and what I love about Olsen is simple, simple technology. It works well and one of Olsen's models is equipment made the last.

And for me that's extremely important because one of the reasons I've been in business, one of the reasons I've been, I've had a successful career in what I do is I've been fixing machines that are 30 years old and we're still fixing them and we're still selling them. If you look at the equipment now, I don't know if you can still have a refurbishing business in the next 10 years.

There's just a lot of things that they're doing that makes it more difficult for a normal person to fix a chair. You need a engineer to be able to fix your chair, and that's what I don't like. That's what I don't like about where we're going to the future. But what I love about Olson is they kept it simple.

Their equipment has one PC board. their unit is not super complicated to get to the upholstery. It's simple. Just the whole thing is simple. And so because of that, I've really enjoyed showing their product, and displaying it too. I believe at this point, I think we're at over 150 chairs that we've installed.

We actually just installed four chairs in Hawaii. My team just came back from that and the doctor was thrilled. So it's been great. It's been fun. I'm actually sitting in one of our chairs right now. I do a lot of my meetings here. Super cool. Because, Has a little massage system in it. So I sit back here, just get a little massage and I, and I love it.

And so imagine if I'm enjoying that while I'm in a conference call. Imagine patients enjoy that as well. So, but that's, that's kind of what Olson is. Um, it's a really cool chair. It's something that I really recommend customers, potential customers to come in and see us at the shows, check the shows out.

it's it's chair that you want to look at. and so that's one of the ways that we like to say that we're different, How we're different. Overall, it's something cool that you just wanna look at and something cool. And like I said, I've enjoyed it a lot.

I've had lots of customers enjoy it. And we're hoping this year, we're gonna explode. And so that's what we're going for. Yeah.

Michael: When you're at these shows, man, you have all your units there or like specific ones or? So in,

Simon: in our sh last shows, we have had all of our units there. Um, this show we've decided, because this is the next one, one that's coming up, that's actually next week.

Mm-hmm. Here in Florida, we're super excited about it because it's, we're doing a smaller show this time just because obviously it's our home base in Florida. We have a showroom in Florida, so we just want people to come look at the chairs and invite them to our showroom so they can see the seven. Eight different models that we have in the showroom.

And so we chose a smaller booth this time. Um, but yeah. And the other shows that we've done, and so we'll be in Chicago, we'll be in New York, we're gonna be in Ohio, we're gonna be in Texas, and we, we will have large booths there to display our products so you can come and see them play with them. I've had lots of customers love them.

One cool thing that we actually have right now that we did in the last show that was a hit, I mean everybody came to check this out, was our transparent share. You can see how the chair is made. And so what I was telling everybody at the event, I was like, listen, Olson is new to you and we want to show you what our insides are made out of.

The reason you don't see any other chair, any other chair transparent is cuz they don't want you to see how complicated their chair is. I want you to see how simple our chair is and so that right there. Thanks to that we sold over 14 cherishes. In the show and that was awesome. so we're hoping we're gonna get the same feedback.

We're gonna take the transparent chair to Florida. They're gonna check it out. They're gonna look at it, and I hope they expect the same results, simply because it's very awesome to just see. It's a simple product. You're not overcomplicating it. And for me, that's important. I know for other people that's important because Michael, I don't know if you know, but calling a service technician to come service your chair is very expensive.

And if you could save that money, imagine you would want to. Yeah.

Michael: How is that man? How is like the customer support and then like the, you know what I mean? Because I feel like that's, things break no matter what, right? So then it's like, Hey, how fast can I get that someone on the line, a human coming here and all that stuff.

How does that look like? So this is

Simon: the cool thing, and this is one of the reasons Olson's worked with us and the reason we decided to partner up together. Remember, we're in the medical industry as well, so we have technicians that we've partnered up with all over the country because the chairs are simple.

I can send one of my medical techs to go out there, check the chair, and he can figure it out. He can get it done, put it together, and do it right. They have the experience. They're certified with the medical equipment. The dental equipment isn't too much. What is our goal? Our goal is for the chairs is not to fail.

That's why we give our customers a five-year warranty. That's why the chairs are simple. When you overcomplicate your chairs, then yes, you should expect things to fail. Cuz when you have three, four PC boards, five PC boards in one chair, yeah chances of one breaking is is high. But when you only have one, Chances of them breaking is not as high.

And so because of that, we're not really worried, too much about service calls. One of the reasons that have blown people away is if you open up a delivery system on a chair right now, your delivery system has one block that controls all your handpiece. This has been the biggest selling point we've actually had with our Olson chairs is that ours aren't a block. They're actually individual. one hand piece breaks, You can continue using your other handpieces, which means you don't have to close the room that day, stop productivity because your block is clogged. And that's something that people is blowing people away. And so it, it's, it's a, a very neat feature.

Doesn't exist in the market and it's something that Olsen has that it's just blowing people away. Had

Michael: you, man, that is, that is pretty awesome. So, Price-wise for these chairs compared to like other companies? I mean, like, I know we are thinking of like, maybe like densely, right? Like that's like really, really big.

Right? But when it comes to this right here, practice owners, when they get their, they're starting up, they're putting this in, right? They're think thinking about the budget, how much would you say we'd have to budget for these chairs if we're like, Hey, I wanna have three ops, four ops,

Simon: So Michael, the cool thing about this is our pricing is awesome.

Quality is awesome. We have four level chairs. We have a hygiene chair that starts off at 6,300. Then we have our infinity chair that starts off at 14,500. So there's a range there. The differences in between our chairs is size. It's gonna be your delivery system, it's gonna be your light. So there's cool features that you get to see at the show that you'll be able to say, Hey, I want this light.

I want this handpiece here. I want my three-way syringe this way. And then we set it all off for you. And so price wise, it's there. I've met some customers that I've spoken to who've spent $34,000. For just one chair. Mm-hmm. They're using our chairs right now. If you go to a website, um, olson a.com, you actually would be able to see what they've said about our chairs and they've loved it.

again, $14,000, $40,000, one chair. Or you could buy four chairs for the price of one tier. And so because of that, that's just a great savings. And so I would say we're definitely in the affordable side, I would like to say, but you're not sacrificing quality. that's the important point.

That's the, what everybody's asking is like, Simon, okay, your chairs are a great price. They're all, they look amazing. But are they really that good? And that's why we saw him five year warranty. If something breaks, we overnight it, we get a technician to install it. We're done. Fortunately, because we're new in the market, we haven't had it too many issues.

We had one issue so far, that a doctor by accident broke the light. he broke it himself and he admitted that he broke it. He asked us for a light, and I told him, I was like, you know what, doctor? You've been a great customer here. I'll overnight the light to you. And because it was so simple, he installed it himself.

Hmm. Yeah. And so instead of spending five, 600 bucks on a light and then paying a technician installed it, we just gave him the light. He installed it and he's loved the product. So I would like to say because of that, overall it's a really good share and the features it has overall, it's something that will allow you to save money.

And at the end of the day, it's crazy when I see, when these potential customers that I'm working with, when they send me their budgets, when they send me what they're working with, It is insane. And so as a business owner myself, saving money is key, especially when you're starting out. And so when you have that opportunity to save money but not sacrifice quality, I think that's awesome.

Michael: Yeah. That's awesome man. That's really, okay. So talking about that in your, your own mind, right? And putting your shoes as a business owner into the shoes of a practice owner. In your opinion, what can a dentist do today or practice owner do today to improve their marketing or

Simon: their business? So, because I've been studying dental offices a lot, I can tell you I've actually looked a lot into this and know what I've seen.

A lot of doctors, a lot of dentists, they don't invest in social media as much as they should. they don't invest in their office as much as they should. Right. When, when, I mean, they invest in their office. I don't know if you've ever seen Michael, but you can get a 360 of your whole office doesn't cost that much, and you can actually give someone that virtual tour of your office.

We do that with a lot of our projects and it comes out awesome. I mean, it just looks amazing and allows that patient who's looking on their phone to see where should I go to the dentist at? And when you get to see that experience and see why, look how beautiful their equipment is, look how beautiful, how clean their office is.

That's something that I would say that a lot of dentists don't take advantage of. I would say also Google my business. It's a lot of spaces I see that no one has pictures of their logo, pictures of their staff, we wanna be personal. You wanna show who you are. Like if you go to our, Google, you'll see we have over 2000 pictures.

We have a, our chairs that we do of our warehouse, we wanna be personal. We want when someone calls us to speak to us, that they know who they're speaking to, that they know what's going on, and that they see our, our equipment. And for us, that's important. So I would say in the dental space, I have noticed that, that they're, they're just, when you go on, you're Googling an address, you just see a logo.

Couple reviews, hopefully they're good, but you don't really see that they've invested in their online presence. And I think that's important, especially right now when everybody just looks everything up on the phone. And so I would definitely say that. I would definitely say be proud of your office.

Be proud of who you are, be proud of that you're in business, and push that and share that. I think that's extremely important.

Michael: Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. Like be proud of it and then invest in it right kind of thing. And that's, I guess, a way to show that you're proud of it by investing in it, like really putting in that skin in the game.

You know what I mean? Kind of thing. Awesome. So now these next questions are just to get into the head of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side of dentistry right now. What would you like to see more from a dentist?

Simon: I personally love my dentist. He's amazing, and he does a really good job on making you feel so comfortable when you get into his office.

The atmosphere. So I would say, because I've had the same dentist for about 20 years, I would say that I would try to mirror that experience where when you get to an office, it looks clean, right? Feels clean, smells good. You you'd be surprised how many offices I've been into where it doesn't sound good.

Where it doesn't look clean. And so I think that's something very important. And you think that's basic, but when you're so busy with running a, running an office dealing with patients, dealing with employees, you Ms. Small things. And so I would definitely say that would be something that I would like to see more.

Um, just because I've visited lots of offices and I can tell you there's, there's a good amount of them that just don't take care of the, the general things. their work is amazing. It's just small little things that someone should be doing, they're not doing. Gotcha.

Michael: That's been kind of key.

Uh, I noticed that that's like a thread to you though, what doesn't smell good to you in an office where you're like, this smells like, what?

Simon: I can tell you I've had an experience I've been in, in New York recently, and, um, you could tell I would like to say maybe when there's too many people in the waiting room, um, right when you overbook patients.

You have too many people in there. Every now and everybody smells good. because of that, I would definitely say that's something I, I experienced just recently where you walked in and it was like, wow, maybe I should walk back out. So I, I, I would definitely say that that's one of the things that you, you would want to limit, right?

When you can control your patients, when you can control how many people you book, you don't overbook the rooms, right? You don't overbook your, your procedure. You simply, Book it correctly. That way you don't have 15, 20 people a waiting room. Like me personally, my dentist. That never happens.

You go in, there's not more than two or three people, and he's a busy guy, but he doesn't overbook. You come in with, he puts you back in the room and you keep going. And so that's something I've enjoyed. And also, that's one of the things I actually love. When you go there and when, at least for me, I'm a very busy guy.

My appointment's at three, I get there at three. At 3 0 5, I'm sitting on a chair. And I'm gone. And I love that. And I think that's another thing that I would actually love to see as well. Cause a lot of times you get to an office, like at least for medical, and you're waiting 45 minutes just for them to see you.

And so, there's a lot of things in the background that happen that, you know, patients don't know, the patients don't see, there's some things we couldn't, we can't control by not overbooking. Mm-hmm.

Michael: So the, the part that makes you feel more comfortable is like, Hey, just don't overbook and then, you know what I mean?

A lot of these other problems can kind of go away. Yeah. Whether it's waiting time, descents, things like that. Yeah, no, definitely. Gotcha. Okay, So then what do you love about dentistry?

Simon: so on the business side, for me, what I love is, The amount of money it takes to open up to a dentist's office, I love saving people money. You know, that's one of the things I enjoy doing every day, um, in my business. And to be able to say that I can help you save 15, 20, $30,000, 40, 50, $60,000, I think that's awesome. And with Olsen, we have that opportunity. And so because of that, I would really say would love to see and continue seeing the savings that we've been able to provide, cuz when you could save five, $6,000 and invest it somewhere else.

That's awesome. You know that's money. You can invest in social media. That's money You can invest in Hiring a better office manager. That's money you can invest and. On vacation, enjoying, you know, quality time with your family. And so those are all, all little things that I think are important. So when you can save that on a chair, compared to buying a 24, 25, $40,000 chair, I would definitely say that's something I'm, I really love doing on the medical side and I expect to love doing it on the dental side.

Yeah.

Michael: That's nice man. Typically, right. Now, if you don't mind me asking, out of the range of chairs you have, which one would you say is the most popular? Like where, the one in Hawaii, right? We just installed these all these other places. Where to you, which one would you say is more popular?

Simon: So right now, our logic, it starts off at 10,500 is the most popular chair. It's, um, chair that a lot of our dentists have enjoyed. That's the chair that we just installed in Hawaii for of. He loved them. He actually, awesome doctor. He actually has an office in Hawaii and he has an office in Chicago, So he bought two of our infinities and then he ordered four of our logics for his Hawaii office.

And so I would say that, Our logic is, is really, it's a great chair. it does everything you need, gives you all the, all the upgrades that you want on a chair. Our sprint chair is really good for hygienes, a fantastic hygiene chair. Our quality is a great chair for dentist who's throwing off, who's really price conscious.

our logic is an amazing chair for an experienced dentist who wants a workhorse, and our infinity is for our high end dentist who just wants to look amazing, who just wants his chair to look fantastic and wants to have all the bes and whistles. And so the Infinity, we've sold a lot of those, they're beautiful chairs and they all go into high end offices that just look amazing.

Michael: Gotcha. I was gonna ask that. I'm looking at your chairs right now. The logic and the. Infinity. Do you normally, let's just say we're creating the infrastructure and the outline of the the practice right now in the construction phase. Can you ever like chime in on that and say like, Hey look, I think it'd be best if you had the infinities for this and that, that, or you guys don't, you're just like, Hey, whatever.

It's up to you, doctor. So

Simon: fortunately we've actually been part of lots of new builds and we've also done. just replacement chairs and so when we get the be part of the construction experience, it's a lot better for the doctors. Cosmetic look of the office because we get to all the plumbing underneath the chair.

When you have to add that junction box, you lose about a foot of real estate. That can be nice and clean. That could be clear, and that's awesome. I mean, I love installing these chairs where we can put. All the plumbing, electricity underneath the chair where it should be, and it just looks amazing. And so when we get to do that, it's enjoyable.

And when we get to see the size of the rooms, definitely our infinity is a little bit bigger than our other chairs. And so we can tell the customer, Hey, infinity, you're not gonna get the same experience. When you have a smaller room, so for this room, we'd recommend a quality. And so because of that, yeah, we definitely enjoy being part of that process.

Um, and, and it's something awesome that we get to do. You send us the blueprints, we'll send it to our tech. He'll actually put the chair in on you, your blueprints. He can show you where the arms move or the delivery system moves. It's a really cool system. You'll be able to see it all and get that experience.

On top of that, we have even, even cooler experience. Let's say you like the Infinity, you can actually put the Infinity in your office. You grab your phone and you can put on an app that we have and literally see through your phone, the whole chair inside your office, and you can walk around the whole chair with your phone and see how it would actually look inside the office.

That's something that a lot people have enjoyed. Um, it's something I love doing as well. Yeah, that's nice, man.

Michael: I like that a lot. So then there's also the other side of this, right?

Where there's really expensive ones and there's really, really non-expensive ones, cheapy ones, right? So what are the hidden costs of cheap dental chairs? So people are like, they only spent this much, man, you can get it here like on Facebook Marketplace. Or there's another D, right? There's hidden costs behind that, I'm sure.

But

Simon: what are they? So let's say if you buy something on Facebook, you're buying something that you don't know the history of it, right? You're buying something that you don't know who installed it. You also are looking at, does that chair still exist?

Can they still buy parts for it? Right? A lot of these chairs, after a certain amount of time, the manufacturer stops making the parts for it. that's one, like, let's say starting off on Facebook, obviously you can also buy chairs from, you know, other countries overseas and you could sit, you know, you're gonna then sacrifice equality, right?

Because what they do is they do mass produce and they sell as much as they can. And so obviously there's certain chairs, certain parts that are not gonna be made with the best quality part for us. One cool thing that. Olson has, is we actually build 95% of the chair in Brazil, So, in case anybody doesn't know where Brazil is, which I hope everybody does, Brazil is in South America, that's our neighbor. it's a chair that's being built with without good quality. when you're looking at Facebook, that might be something won't wanna do, because, Again, if you don't know who ins installed it, you don't know who uninstalled it, there might be parts missing.

Then you don't come, so you don't have a warranty, right? That's everybody asks the question, asked them, now, where's the servicing coming from? Again, if this is a chair that you just bought, and let's say you bought it for three, $4,000 and then you gotta spend another thousand or $2,000 on it, that's expensive.

A motor, a hydraulic, let's say if you have hydraulic chairs, a hydraulic motor is expensive. Hydraulic cylinders are expensive. And so that's one of, of the things again, that Olson does different. Our chairs, none of them are hydraulic. They're all electric driven by Bosch Motors, and so that makes it easier chair to fix.

At the end of the day, it's gonna last longer because hydraulics, you have. Hoses there, you have pressure, you have oil. All of those things require maintenance. And so that's one of the things again that you're gonna see the difference in between an Olsen chair and our competition. Nice

Michael: man.

Okay, so then one last questions I wanna ask you is throughout this process, actually, throughout the time you started, se let's, let's go with that sevi Man till today, right now, just in general, man, Simon, so the audience can get to know you a little bit more. What's been some of your biggest struggles?

Simon: So I think when everybody starts off, and I can tell you over the last 10 years, you, you have a goal, you have something you want to do, and that goal changes, right?

When you get older, things change. When your business gets older, things change. You have different perspectives. I am a father of two. I have. My son Samuel, was about a year old. And I have my son, Theo, who's four. I can tell you, when they were born, they changed my perspective. Cause all I wanted to do was work, work, work, work before.

Now I wanna spend time with them. I wanna do things different. And so I can also say, when you hire people, all I can tell you, I've, I've had over probably 150 people work for me. And I can tell you all have I learned about hiring people. Um, I think that's actually where I've made some of my biggest mistakes is hiring the wrong people or hiring with my heart.

I can tell you that before I'd hire anybody, they're walking on the road. They needed a job. Hey, come here and I'll, I'll give you a job. I've learned a lot by that. we've disappointed customers because we haven't hired the right people. And so for right now, right now, I can tell you our culture, our focus, my focus is to have happy customers.

I have a saying that I say a lot to all of my customers is, you know, your success is our success. If you're successful, I'm successful, so I have to make sure you're successful so I can make sure that you make another office in a year and you buy 10 shares. Then in two years you do 30.

I have customers that started with me 10 years ago, but I love that. Love me. They have 13, 14 offices. I've done all of them. Working with them is amazing. Seeing them grow inspires me and allows me to continue growing. And so that's kinda one things that like we do. And one of the things I can tell you over the years I've learned from, you know, one thing is when you start off, you don't wanna just hire anybody.

You know, you spend more time with your employees than what you spend at home normally. And so because of that, you don't wanna have bad employees. And not all bad employees start off as bad employees. So I, I believe that's one of the things that I've, I've struggled with a lot is, Not having the right people by me.

With time with different budgets, you're able to find better people. You're able to learn different ways of doing things. And I would say what I've learned just the last year alone, cause I can tell you, last year was crazy for us. We were doing the dental, we were doing the medical cool. We grew like crazy.

And what I really learned, Right now we're doing amazing as well, and we have better people and the people have changed everything and, and something I can tell you last year I wasn't focused on, and it's something right now, I'm focused on that the people who work for me, the people who are my team members, they're killing it just like we are, and that they're happy and that they're enjoying what they do.

And I think that's really important. And I think when you find people that are not good, um, I'm a huge fan of Dave Ramsey and, um, he said something where if, um, you only want thoroughbreds, right? You only want thoroughbreds. You don't want donkeys working for you. And I can tell you I've had lots of donkeys working for me, and I've definitely learned from that.

Oh, nice

Michael: man. Great advice. Awesome. Simon, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure. But before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you?

Simon: Definitely. So if you're in Florida or if you might be in Florida next week, We are gonna be from the 29th of June to the 1st of July, we'll be in the Florida Dental Association Convention that's gonna be in the Gaylord Palms and Orlando.

And so we'd be super excited to have you there just to come check out our chairs. We also have a showroom here in Orlando, Florida. Uh, we're about 45 minutes from Orlando, but it's easier to say Orlando cuz well, nobody knows where Orange City is, but we're about 45 minutes away from the airport. And so, You can also check us out on olson na.com.

You can see us there, you can see us on social media, you can see us, uh, on YouTube. We love the share stuff. Our team's always making something and, and we enjoy the push out videos. And so, we would love for you to come check us out. We just want you to see our products. When someone comes to the show, I tell them, touch our chairs. Feel them. Touch our leather, touch our vinyl, go look at other chairs and come back. And I've had the fortune that a lot of them come back. And so I would definitely say you want to touch our chairs, you want to feel 'em, you wanna see what they're made out of and get to enjoy them.

Michael: So what's the next event after the Florida one that you guys will be attending?

Simon: Thanks for asking that, Michael. So, September 21st through September 23rd, we'll be in the Ohio Dental Convention.

We're super excited. the Ohio Dental Association is gonna be making this event. They're, they are pushing it, they're inviting lots of dentists to come, and we're super excited to be part of it. And so I would love to see you there September 21st, or September 23rd. You'll see more on our [email protected] and we're super excited to see you.

And like I said before, I want you to come touch our chairs. Feel them, see the quality, and then go touch the competition and let us know what you think.

Michael:  All right, Uhhuh. Awesome. Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below, so definitely go check that out and reach out to Simon and his team.

And Simon, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Awesome.

Simon: Thank you, Michael.

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Hey guys, welcome to this week's Monday Morning Marketing episode! In this episode, I'm joined by website expert, Josh Hampson, to dive deep into the world of dental websites and how they can effectively build a strong brand for your practice. Discover key strategies to set yourself apart from the competition and answer the pressing questions potential patients may have. Learn why your website is your most valuable sales tool and why Josh says YES to listing price ranges on your site. Uncover the secrets to creating a low-friction experience for potential patients and how to address their pain points through your brand. We also cover when to, and when not to, invest in Search Engine Optimization(SEO) when starting up your practice.

Punch that play button and get ready to transform your dental website into a powerful brand-building asset!

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You can reach out to Josh Hampson here:

Website: https://www.hmpsn.studio/

Blog Post: 4 Ways to Increase Appointment Bookings on Your Dental Practice Website

Linkedin

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Other Mentions and Links:

Typeform

Invisalign

Airbnb

DoorDash

Semrush

H1 and H2 Headers

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If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:

My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/

The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

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Michael: Hey Josh. So talk to us about websites. How can we utilize this, or what advice, suggestions, or methods can you give us that will help actually attract new patients through our website?

Josh: Yeah, definitely. So for any dental practice, where I recommend getting started is really at the foundation.

Make sure that you're building a brand. So before you really think about building a website, it's important to, figure out what's gonna set you apart from your competition. Why should a potential patient. Choose to book with you over, any other dental practice in your area. So really I have a few questions that I like to answer before diving into that.

I've already said, what sets you apart from your competition? What makes you a better choice than other dental practices in your area? And then this is core, but what are your ideal customers, your ideal patient's pain points? what dental services are they typically looking for? So, are they looking for general family dentistry?

Are they maybe looking for pediatric dentistry for the little ones? or are they looking for more cosmetic dental services? You know, implants, veneers, those sorts of things. The other question that I like to ask is, what questions do they have about the services that they're looking for and how can you easily answer them on your website?

and then, you know, this is not at all website focused, but making sure that you're creating an exceptional experience for your patients is paramount. this starts, in your marketing and bleeds all the way through into that in-office experience. So as we really think about diving into the website, once you've answered these core questions about your business, about your offerings, about how you can tailor, you know, your messaging to those ideal patients, I like to dive into the basics.

So, The biggest tip that I can give anybody that's thinking about either, you know, relaunching a dental practice website or uh, if you're a brand new, practice starting from scratch don't fall into the trap of thinking that your website is just a website. I really like to think about our website as your most valuable sales tool, and it's typically, one of the first or the first touch points that you'll have with a new patient before they ever come into your studio.

So with that being said, it's important to stand out. You know, I think we've all seen a lot of dental practice websites and it actually isn't that difficult to stand out in the dental space. When we look at a lot of dental websites, they feel. Somewhat sterile. And so really offering different design aspects that make you feel more personable, that feel authentic to you, authentic to your practice experience.

And once again, going back to speaking to your ideal customer. So not just unloading about the services that you do, but really speaking to. How that is going to impact your customer, your patient's lives. Right. So, we all know that health starts with oral health. A lot of. Problems that we can experience really begin with, you know, what's happening in our mouths.

So, speaking to that unique value proposition and positioning yourself, your practice as the uh, the guide that will help your patients solve that. Mm-hmm. And then once again, going back, what sets you apart? It's all about being authentic. It's all about You know, really setting yourself apart from other practices in your area, cuz there are tons of options.

And then on top of that, your website is an integrated piece of your marketing plan, like I said earlier you know, answering questions that patients might have about any of your services. Paramount little hack there. Is, you can put these in an FAQ section. A lot of these questions are actually SEO keywords and search terms in and of themselves.

So, you know, thinking about, I'm based in Austin, Texas thinking about Invisalign, how much does Invisalign cost in Austin, Texas, huge search term here. So answering that question on your website, having that keyword on your website is automatically gonna bump you up and search rankings just by simply answering a question that your patient already has and that you know that they're going to have.

Nice. I do have a question

Michael: about the, the website. When you, I guess, put yourself in it, your brand, you know, like the loudest page and things like that. Or about the practice, do you prefer or do you think it's better to speak from like a third party or like, it looks like the doctor's actually saying like, I love this community and I love, or the doctor loves this community, and what's better?

Josh: I think it really depends on the size of your practice. So if you're solo, you're the only doctor in your practice, I think that having that type of you know, one-on-one conversation with a patient is um, the way to go. If you've got many, many, many doctors in your practice, maybe multiple locations I would recommend kind of saying, this is what we are about.

And then you can always do like a letter from the founder or blog post from the founder. Mm-hmm. Um, I think is a really great option there. Gotcha. Okay, cool. And then going back to really making it easy to find answer or for your patients to find answers to their questions. One of my favorite dental hacks is an insurance verification form.

We typically use type form, which allows you to set up. Essentially this is gonna get a little developer, but uh, bit of conditional logic where you can upload all of the different insurances that your practice accepts. And then anything that you don't accept, and then set that form up so that you're grabbing patient's name, their email address what insurance they will be potentially using with your practice.

And from there you can conditionally then display. We take your insurance, let's go ahead and book your appointment. We don't take your insurance, but you can then direct them to maybe you have like an in studio membership option. But what you're doing there is making it one easy to answer whether or not you accept their insurance.

Two, you're also capturing that lead and able to follow up with them. In the instance that you do accept their insurance and they didn't quite make the jump to uh, schedule that appointment. You can always follow up and convert that lead, that's kind of one of the most valuable tools that we've employed lately.

Michael: Gotcha. When it comes to that, like, okay, how much is in, how much does Invisalign cost? Or how much are implants? Or, you know what I mean? Would you prefer to have the price on the website? Like, just, just put it out there or, cuz you know how some people are like, well, don't put the price out there. You know what I mean?

You're gonna deter people and have them call for, you know what I mean? And then that kind of doesn't answer the question that Google wants. Right. Yeah,

Josh: so I'm a big, big proponent of including pricing on your website, whether it's, you know, a dental website or you know, a SaaS website. Think about how many times you have been looking for the price of really any product or service and can't figure that out.

You're more likely to just put it off and not, Book your appointment not reach out, anything like that. What you're really doing and including pricing is once again, like validating that you are the right choice for your patients. So if they come in and they see that, your Invisalign price is out of their price range It's gonna save you a little bit of time as well to not have to answer those questions, those sorts of things.

So it's gonna limit some lift on your front office staff but it's also going to help you attract your ideal customer, which is what it's all about. We want to make sure that we're getting the right people in the doors at the right time and helping 'em with the products and services that they need.

Okay.

Michael: Okay man. So have the price on website.

Josh: Definitely. And big thing with that, I know these are all variable prices, so you can always include a range. So if we're looking at an implant, we know that that can vary dramatically depending on patient's, individual you know, their individual case that sort of thing.

So you can always put a range. It doesn't have to be. An implant is $3,500. Implants typically start at X and they could go up to Y depending on what your individual case looks like. Mm-hmm. Okay. Awesome. Another often overlooked Option for helping convert potential patients, to actual patients is utilizing an online booking widget or platform.

So we know that. It can be kind of a hassle to schedule a dental appointment, especially if maybe you haven't been to the dentist in a while. So making it as easy as booking an Airbnb or ordering DoorDash that's really going to dramatically like boost the number of patients that are in your practice.

So if they can easily figure out if you do take their insurance and then easily book online, you're just taking away. Those blockers that could keep them from booking with you. So they don't have to call. Of course they can call if they want, but we all know if things are put right in front of us, the likelihood that we'll actually move forward with doing that thing.

it'll actually happen. So just streamlining that, making it as easy as possible for patients to figure out once again, if you take their insurance. And then ultimately book, paramount and getting more folks through the door. And typically most dental practice software are going to have an embedable widget.

You can usually find it directly in your platform. It's just an embed code copy pasted into your website builder and seamless. So mm-hmm. Super, super easy to implement, onto your website, provided that your, uh, dental practice software has that option. Mm-hmm. And then, maybe a lot of SEO guys or SEO gals are gonna ding you for this, but I'm always hesitant to tell, especially a practice that's just starting to go full send on seo, search engine optimization.

What's more important for a brand new dental practice is making sure that you have the SEO fundamentals down. So making sure that you're hitting. Keywords, relevant keywords to your area. Super, super easy to go onto a tool like a CM rush and find what those. Keywords are for your, your individual area and make sure that you're including those into your site.

But I think when it comes to creating tons and tons of s e o content I generally kind of reserve that for practices that are at least like a year old. it takes time. It's. A costly endeavor. And I think more important for a brand new practice is making sure that you're really growing your book, providing an excellent in-office experience, those sorts of things.

But like I said, I see o fundamentals are super, super important. Make sure that you're most siteholders would do this if you're um, You know, building your side on your own, just make sure that you've got your H one s, your H two s noted so that things from a uh, technical standpoint, Google will validate your website and start to, to rank you.

All right, man. So that's nice.

Michael: That's good to know about the seo especially, I feel like a lot of the times when you're getting out in the get going, like, you know, it's like kinda like crickets or like a couple new patients. You're like, Ooh, I'm paying seo. You know what I mean? Like, come on, why aren't we first on Google?

Or something like that. I had to get impatient a little bit.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, SEO takes time. It takes time. It's a good bit of work. And most importantly, once again, answering those questions that your patients have, because at the end of the day, like good seo. Is also good user experience, right?

So answering questions um, the folks might have and directing them where they need to go is um, foundational piece of seo, last thing that I would say is, And I touched on this at the very beginning of our call, is just making sure that your website is an integrated piece of your marketing plan.

So, when you have a lead come through on your website, whether it's through a contact form, that insurance verification form make sure that you follow up with those leads, especially if they do not book with you immediately. That means. They're a warm lead. They're a hot lead, and they are looking to find a place to get a dental home, essentially.

Other piece, stay in touch with your existing patients. So, once they come in for that first appointment, if you didn't get the opportunity to schedule them for their second follow or for their follow-up visit during their appointment. Make sure that we're following up, three to four months after that first appointment so that we can get them scheduled for that follow up.

And last but not least streamline referrals. So we all know Word of mouth is our easiest advertising tool, right? So, make sure you're streamlining referrals. There are a number of different platforms that you can use to do that, that integrate directly into your website.

And once again, really, really valuable in, converting potential patients, especially after um, one of their friends, one of their colleagues has had a great experience with you. It's a shoe for them to come and get their dental services done with you as well. Mm-hmm. Nice.

Michael: Okay, man.

So fo yeah, focus on referrals, but it starts with building that brand, right? Building the brand and making sure all this is kind of in play and we can dive deeper into SEO and upcoming month. But, at the same time, making sure your website's, looking good. You mentioned referrals, widgets have the SEO optimization conversions, right?

Getting the leads in. Yeah, man, that's it. It sounds like a little bit, but then there's a lot of moving parts, you know what I mean? And so this is the, I, I feel like this is where the listener, right, is I guess, paying for that optimization, right? Like, okay, this is where we gonna have to move, moving parts, keep up to date, all these things.

Because it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah.

Josh: Definitely. I mean, it's a lot of moving parts. our dental clients they're experts in, dentistry, right? Mm-hmm. Maybe they might not have taken a business class since, general college. And so there's a lot of moving parts and it can become very technical.

So, yeah, just make sure that you're hitting all those key points and everything will fall into place.

Michael: Awesome, Josh. I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find 'em on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out

Josh: to you directly?

Yeah, definitely. So drop on over to our website. It's www.hmpsn.studio, so just my last name with Noval. And then we've also got a dental blog post on our Website as well. It dives into a lot more of this in detail, so check that out as well.

Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below, and Josh, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode.

Josh: Thanks so much, Michael. It was a blast.

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Guest: Jordan SandersPractice Name: Knox Mountain DentistryCheck out Jordan's Media:

Website: http://knoxmountaindentistry.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knoxmountaindentistry/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/knoxmountaindentistry

Email: [email protected]

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Other Mentions and Links:

Buzz Marketing

Invisalign

All-Star Dental Academy

Mango Voice

Swell

Kois Center

‍The $100 Startup - Chris Guillebeau

Jordan on Episode 375

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Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer

Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society

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My Key Takeaways:

• Honing in on your target demographic for dentistry will simplify and elevate your marketing efforts!
• When making content, it's important to make sure potential patients find enjoyment and entertainment from it.
• Utilizing phone skills such as calling patients by name, asking open-ended questions, and asking for the appointment can bring your scheduling to the next level!
• Digital marketing efforts are much easier to track ROI and make adjustments based on.
• Ground marketing can massively boost your local presence in the community early on!
• Not every employee resonates with certain styles of feedback. You may need to adjust based on personality of the team member!

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

Michael: Hey, what's up Jordan? How's it going, man? I'm good, Michael. How you doing, my friend? It's been a year since the last 375 knocks. Wait real quick. Are you in Canada? I am, yeah. Okay. Okay. Yes. Okay. Okay. break it down real fast if you can. A year

Jordan: ago, where were you at? Well, yeah, since the last time you and I sat down and had a little chat, it's it is changed a lot.

We opened two years ago and so you kind of chatted with me about 12 months into that journey of, of the startup and, we were doing well, you know, things were, things were growing rapidly. We were adding new people to the practice. Lots of new patients were coming, and since then, it's just kept going.

We've, added an associate to the practice since then. We've basically doubled our staff from where we were a year ago to where we are now. And it just really going in positive directions. I've have very grateful and thankful for all the opportunities that I've had in this practice.

And it's been just a ton of fun along the way.

Michael: Nice man. So real quick, could you briefly introduce your dental practice and the demographic you primarily

Jordan: serve? You got it. So my name's Dr. Jarden Sanders. I own Knox Mountain Dentistry. It is a dental clinic uh, general dental clinic in Cologna, British Columbia.

We are, our town is kind of. It's kind of urban. We're a growing city maybe about 200,000 people in this, in the city, but one of the most rapidly growing cities in Canada right now. Just cuz of our, we have awesome summers and awesome winters and people want to come live here for some reason.

Where, Where I settle down with the practices kind of a unique spot. It was this up and coming district within Cologna that's since garnered the name, the brewery district which is neat. So we have. Tons of craft breweries and comedy places and live music and all this kind of fun, funky stuff.

And as a result of that, the people that come to this practice are young. We have 3000 patients with an average age of about 32, which is super cool. it's not what I thought when I thought I'd open the doors here, cuz Colonna has been traditionally a bit of an older community.

But that's changing so fast that it's just, it's moving in this direction for

Michael: us. How is that man? Do you feel like they're coming in aware and they're like, look I wanna get my cleaning 32 year olds, right? Things like that? Or are they just like, dude, I your bottle hit my tooth, chipped it.

Can you

Jordan: fix it real fast? I mean, it's a little bit of both. We do get some of that usually it's like skis or sometimes beer bottles, but a lot of it's young families, we have. The mom typically comes in and, tests us out and then the husband shows up and the three kids and then their grandparents.

And so it's kind of that, energy that we've been, we've been working with. But yeah, we set up in this really central location. Like I'm on a busy main street with large signage. And so people just, they're all moving to this area. And they just see us as they're walking by, driving by and, that's really what brings them in.

So it's been kind of fortuitous. They keep building stuff around me, which is working out really well for us.

Michael: Yeah. Nice man. Okay. And then, so you're a private practice, right? Solo dog, multiple doctors specialty or, yeah,

Jordan: so just myself and my associate. When did you bring on your associate? It was a year ago, April.

So about four months after you and I chatted, that was the, That was when I brought the associate in.

Michael: Okay. And it was like once you hired them. That, was it home run perfect person or did you have to like let home associate

Jordan: and bring someone else? Yeah, no, it was, it was kind of interesting. Like she, she cold called me in February.

And, at that time I wasn't ready for an associate, like, I didn't feel ready. And so, you know, we were chatting and we kind of said, ah, it's like it's not the right time for the practice right now to bring on an associate. And even if it was you know, it would be. Part-time at best.

And so, she went off and she found another associateship in a, in one of the adjacent towns. And she worked there for two months and then called me up again and said I hate this. I can't. Like how do we make this work? Yeah. and you know, her and I just, we clicked it was, it was great.

And so I. Brought on an associate faster than I thought I was going to to get her. And it's worked out. It's worked out amazing. She's great. Did that bring pressure

Michael: for you to be like, we gotta push it now to fill her schedule, do all this? Or was it like already there? There was no

Jordan: pressure. Y yeah, there was definitely pressure.

I, I told her, I was very honest with her. I said, this. If this was six months from now, this would be easy. It'd be no problem. But because we're doing this a little bit early, like we're, you're gonna start off slow and we're gonna have to build it up if you really want to work here.

And she was okay with that. And so we just, she just hung out and just saw, you know, the emergencies that walked through the door and, I fed her most of the new patients which just actually was nice for me. It let me. Do more of the treatment that I'd had. Mm-hmm. Kind of getting built up. And since then, she's running two columns.

I'm running two columns. We've got, three full-time hygienists basically every day. Is busy, you know, it's comes with the typical lulls that you get with any dental practice, you know, during the summer and during those early winter months. But, we're all doing well. Okay,

Michael: man.

Nice. So then what has been your experience with different marketing companies and which strategies have proved to be most effective?

Jordan: Yeah. I, so I started off with the same marketing company that I'm using now. Now, like caveat to that is I do a lot of my own social media. I had, the early days of the practice.

I spent a lot of time really establishing what I wanted. The brand of the practice to be and how that was gonna play itself out on the social media channels. So I do all of that and I still do all of that cuz I have quite a bit of fun doing it. But I leveraged the marketing company to deal with all of the things that I wasn't that good at.

So, search engine optimization advertising on using Google AdWords and Facebook stuff. Building the website. And basically coming up with the synergy of how all of those things can work together to bring people through the front door. Probably the most successful stuff that we've had has been are, are Google, mostly Google Maps.

We target a lot of people within the five kilometer demographic of the practice. Mm-hmm. So, you know, they search up dentist, we pop up in, in one of the top three because of that. And that's been really our boon with bringing new people through the front door. Ah, so who is your marketing company? They're a company called Buzz Marketing.

They're local here in Colonna. They've been great. Honestly, I they've hit the, hit it out of the park every time we've done videos with them, photos with them. They, They have all the skills and the tools to do whatever I've needed them to do along the way. We did a mail marketing campaign where they did all of the graphic design.

Yeah, they're just easy to work with, which has been the greatest part of it. Uhhuh

Michael: true. Okay. And then you talked about you do the social media. Mm-hmm. So like, break that down for me. Does that, like, you just do the Instagram, then you schedule it out, or you just pump it out

Jordan: once it, how does that Oh yeah.

Yeah. I just, I just kind of you'd have to kind of understand what our Instagram is to really, to know, like we don't, I don't have a single picture of teeth on my Instagram account. Like I don't focus at all. On the tooth side of the business when it comes to social media, the social media is purely a entertainment type thing.

So, we have patients come into the practice and we have this Instagram counter that sits in the front lobby that actively changes when people follow or unfollow the clinic. And so they follow it on their phone and they see the numbers flip over, which is super cool. But then it's just from there, it's just funny stuff.

Like literally it's TikTok videos and stupid things that my staff and I do in the office. Our outings as a group are the things that we go do outside of clinic hours. It's really just meant to be more of a lifestyle channel than it is something that's meant to show people what. We do with teeth.

It's meant to kind of, they get to see our culture. you're getting an inner look in what the culture of the office is like. And that's honestly attracted a ton of people to the clinic. They follow us on Instagram. I get a ton of engagement and every now and then I get to throw in, an Invisalign special day that we're doing.

And that gets a ton of traction and people come and book because of that.

Michael: And so you just post like, today I feel like posting. Yeah. Or like, like that pretty, it's never like scheduled.

Jordan: when I see something coming up on the reels, that's a fun dad joke or something, I'll share that.

Or, we sometimes pull pranks on each other in the office, so I'll video that and I'll put that up and yeah a bit unusual, but it's really worked for us. That was kind of the, what we established ourself as early in the day, and it's what most of our patients expect of us now.

Yeah. Um, But yeah, I don't really have I don't schedule it. I don't, I, I don't use stock photography. I don't use anything that's pre-generated. I just, it's all stuff I make myself or stuff that I share from other creators. And just let it roll.

Michael: Gotcha. So do you feel like having a content calendar, like, guys, it's money we gotta do, would hinder you even more, like kind of kill the sporadicness of it?

Jordan: I maybe, I think it depends on what works for you. If you're creating content really, the main thing is just being engaging with your audience. know, Especially in my age category that comes to this practice. They're in their thirties, they're millennials. They're on Instagram and they're on YouTube.

Like, those two avenues are huge for us. If you had an older patient population, maybe Facebook is a bit more prevalent for you. But yeah, as long as you're creating the content and keeping people engaged, I think you can do it with a schedule. That's fine. It just, it's sometimes hard to get your team on board with all that unless you're, willing to do it all yourself.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true. So then how much budget. Do you typically allocate

Jordan: for your marketing? Not as much as maybe would be advised. I think I'm spending, I know I'm spending about 3,200 a month right now. Most purely Google right now. I was in Facebook for a while. just found that that wasn't attracting.

The type of patient that I wanted in the clinic. But what kind of

Michael: patients was

Jordan: it? Was it reading? A bit, a little bit flake here. Kind of what we might categorize as a lower quality patient. Someone that's a bit more, you know, impulsive in their clicking and asking questions and stuff.

Some of those people wouldn't show up, or they'd, want things that we just weren't able to offer. And so, yeah, it was just, having those, having the Google presence, having people able to see us there has been really what, where the money's been spent. I thought about dialing it back.

I kind of, tell myself that we've hit a critical mass where the most of the people that we get are coming from word of mouth referrals. But I haven't been able to convince myself to not spend that money yet. I think it's still doing really well for us.

Michael: Okay, man. That's good. And then how many new patients are you currently

Jordan: getting right now, like in a month?

Varies probably high end 110. Average probably between 60 to 80 in that neighborhood.

Michael: Yeah, that's pretty good, man. Yeah. And so, like, pie charted, if you can, like majority of, would you say like 80% is from goo Google?

Jordan: Less so in the earlier days of the practice. Yes. I would say probably that much now, probably half most of the a good chunk as we've had self-referrals and people that have, like our, thing that we seem to attract is one person from a particular workplace will come to the clinic.

And then all of a sudden we're seeing all of them. that tends to be how we've built the practice is just by collecting cohorts of people through their work conversations about, who's a dentist to see in town kind of thing. Do

Michael: you tell them like, Hey man, Talk to us about your work or to your work friends or something that are, are they just naturally do it?

Yeah,

Jordan: We sometimes it depends on what the work is. We usually engage with our patients pretty heavily, especially in our new patient visit. I don't ask for it as much as I used to, Back in the early earlier days of the practice when I was doing a lot more of the ground marketing style stuff and really kind of trying to get people engaged.

I would a hundred percent ask if I'd ask them, to tell their friends about us if they enjoyed the experience, to leave, leave a Google review. And most people were really good about that. But now I just, I don't need to do that. Yeah, people seem to do it themselves.

Michael: Gotcha, man. Okay.

How equipped is your team in converting calls into actual

Jordan: patients? Excellent. Honestly, we did a lot of training related to phone skills and really just, how we categorize the people that that call, you so our office is set up with a phone tree that's designed to split existing patients away from new patients.

And so anyone that is new to the practice will come down a specific route in that colt tree and they get a tag that's a new patient call on our end. And so we know when that comes in, that's a really high priority call. And so they bring them in and it's, we spent. Hours and hours going through verbiage and call conversion and how to bring some of that skills and get people to actually book and commit to appointments.

But yeah, they're excellent. I would say they convert 80% of the calls that come in as far as new people. Yeah.

Michael: That's really good man. Do you like sit down at the beginning were you like sitting down and listening to them and be like, guys, we gotta adjust. We got, did

Track 2: you

Jordan: have a consultant?

Nope. No, I did that myself. Oh. So I still do that. We, I still audit call logs and listen to call recordings and say, you know how I had a company doing it for a while when we were doing the call phone training uh, which I did through a company called All Star. I found that to be really, really awesome.

Uh, It is to build some of those foundational skills they were doing, auditing of the call logs for me and grading. Grading them. But since then we've moved away from that cause we kind of got what we needed to out of it. And I just do it monthly. I just sit down, I grab five calls and I just go through them and give feedback based on that.

Yeah.

Michael: What to you, Jordan, what would be like, my gosh, this was, this was beautiful, especially the way you handled this, and then what to you is like, oh my God, what happened? You need to change all

Jordan: this. Yeah, I mean the, some of the most important things that we've found when talking to people is, using their name.

People love their hearing, the sound of their name. It's the most beautiful thing in the world to them. Asking open-ended questions is huge. And honestly asking for the appointment, those three things alone are probably the biggest things that I look for when I'm listening to these logs.

And really the things that make me cringe is when that doesn't happen. When we don't ask for the appointment or we just, you know, a price shopper calls and, we just say, well, yeah, this is what we charge for a crown. And we don't actually ask them to like, do you need a cr, do you need a crown?

Is that, are you gonna come and do you wanna come in and get a crown? And so, yeah, it's just, you know, the girls up front are really busy and I get that not every day is gonna be, everyone's a game, but. We try to keep each other accountable. We want to be able to represent the business and the brand the way that, that it's always been and build that so that our patient experience is consistent.

And that's really the big thing, is maintaining that consistency.

Michael: How do you approach that now when maybe somebody's been working for you for a while and then you're like, Hey, I listened to a call. You sucked, right? Mm-hmm. But like, But like, how would you approach it?

Jordan: so the way that I have it set up in the clinic, so I I I figured out a long time ago that I have certain skill sets when it comes to leadership, and there's certain other things that I maybe lack in.

And one of them is really this maybe the softer approach to types of feedback. And certain people do well with that, constructive feedback and other people don't. And, all spectrums of that exist in the office. So we built this kind of management pyramid in the office.

So I have myself, I have my office manager and I have a lead assistant and the three of us filter this stuff out. So my office manager is responsible for everything up front. My lead assistant is responsible for everything in the back, and I'm the kind of top of that pyramid where. All of the team will go to them first, or they will approach the team for various things.

And then I step in as I need to. So in a case like a phone call, I would just take it to my office manager and say, we need to give some feedback about this particular thing's been happening. And so she'll do that. And if she feels like it was well received and worked well, then that's kind of the end of it.

And we just follow up, next month. If it's not working, then, then we have a bit more of a, a formal sit down and, and, and work through it. But, I prepared a lot of my team and it's one of the beauties of doing a startup and being able to bring your own team into the mix is they all knew what to expect when they came in.

You They all knew that feedback was gonna be just a part of the mechanism and they do really well with it. Honestly. They're all really hungry. They want to do better. They, we change things so often in the clinic that they almost expect feedback. which works well.

You know, There's not a lot of hurt feelings. And even in the cases where people are feeling maybe a little bit taken aback but we can work through it together. Gotcha, man. Okay,

Michael: so like the hierarchy kind of thing, right? Like you're, hey, you need to approach this, and then if it escalates, you approach it.

Jordan: Yeah. It's only, it's hierarchy is, is a good word for it in the sense that that's really just how we operate when it comes to the operations of the business. When it comes to the actual interoffice culture, like we're a team, we work together. Mm-hmm. We do everything that we can to make people feel elevated and like they're doing a good job cuz they are, and.

So that works well for us, providing positive feedback along with the negative or constructive stuff that we have to really opens up those doors for us to make those changes. Gotcha. Okay, man.

Michael: Cool. And then you said you have, when the new patient call, phone call comes in is the software that does that or mm-hmm.

Jordan: we use Mango Voice and they have a, dashboard type thing where you can build. A RY path of exactly how you want they call in and they get a thing that says, thanks for calling Knox Mountain Dentistry. If you're new to the office, press one.

If you're need, wanna schedule something, press two, et cetera, and so on. So that's, and it tags their caller ID with a specific, NP or whatever we use in those cases. So the front knows exactly what's coming in.

Michael: Gotcha. Okay. And since you opened up, or I guess it's the last time we spoke to him now, what have been some of the best and worst companies you've worked with?

Jordan: Well, I mean, the companies, most of the companies that I worked with at the beginning, I'm still working with now. There hasn't been many. I've moved on from some, not because they were bad but just because we got out of them, what I think. We needed to. And we were able to move forward.

As we've discussed, like, I've been with ORIC since we opened up, which has been our practice management software. I've been with Mango Voice, which has been amazing, good VoIP based phone service. We were using swell a ton for our reviews and messaging system. But one of the beauties about Orex is they keep adding features that.

Make it. So I don't need that stuff anymore. I don't have to pay extra for some of these other pieces of software now because org has an online review platform now that lets me send out those text messages or emails for Google reviews or Facebook reviews. So, we were with, well and they were great, and now we're not because I don't need to.

So that saves me a couple grand a year. Yeah. Same marketing company that I've been with all along. And then really our, I really did enjoy the training process that we went through with a company called All-Star Dental Academy. They were the phone skills based course that we did all module based online.

But it really helped the, we did it as a team, so everybody did it. And it was kind of neat because it gave us these common talking points and understandings between. What the back was doing and what the front was doing, and they could kind of see eye to eye on some of these things now. So we use them for a good solid year to get, those foundations in place.

That's pretty much it. There's not, I don't have a ton of, other stuff that I need to subscribe to these days. Nice

Michael: man. Okay. Out of, there's a couple right out there. Cloud-based, all-in-one platforms, right? Practice management softwares. Why'd you pick oryx?

Jordan: The original attraction for Orx was really the coy based stuff.

So I'm a mentor at the Coy Center you know, I was always looking for some piece of software that would let me do the types of exams and dentistry that I was taught at center. this was exactly that. And the ORs of two years ago is not the ORs of today like it is.

Is morphing and changing rapidly. It's one of the, the beauties about it, we all complain about our practice management somewhere on, on some level, but, I don't know another practice management company that has a Facebook group that I can go on and request a feature and the C is on there responding to it.

I, that's a very unique environment. And they listen and they do these things for us and add these features that we ask for. And EZ great. Ozzie's great. It's been a really wonderful way for us to be able to provide the dentistry that we've always wanted to do. Yeah. That's

Michael: really good, man.

Mm-hmm. when it comes to Oryx, how much did you, what can I ask? How much do you pay?

Jordan: It's four 50 a month. Us. For orx. the nice thing about ORX is they do offer a way to do just the clinical side. Like if you have existing software that you're using for your administrative side, you can continue to use that while using the ORs clinical side.

you know, we were a startup, so we went all in, we had the opportunity and the time to learn it. But it's super intuitive. Like it's easy. I find that. They're, they have their little hiccups here and there, like any piece of software might. But it's hasn't been anything that my office manager hasn't been able to figure out and implement.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's been a great, it's a great investment.

Michael: Yeah. Cause I was gonna ask, is it easy to train people on and stuff like that? Is it onboarding or is it more like, oh my God, it's taken us like three months to get

Jordan: this going? I think if you were converting, I think there's definitely some more headaches there, but I think there's gonna be headaches with any conversion.

If you're starting fresh. It was pretty easy for us. We started from scratch. We did, they have a bunch of YouTube videos on how to, like, we never brought anyone in. It was the middle of Covid. When we opened. So we didn't bring a trainer in, we just did their, YouTube videos didn't cost us anything.

And once we were through with that and we started implementing it, we were comfortable within it within the first month. It wasn't a huge issue for us to get hit the ground running with that thing. Gotcha.

Michael: Okay. And so you utilize all of it then? All the features and everything? Yes. Oh, okay.

Cool. What's

Jordan: one of your favorite features from it? Oh one. I have different favorites for different reasons. Probably one of The things that we've come to be a little bit known for is what's called our risk assessments. So Orx generates a document like 15 pages long. That's basically all of the summary findings from their new patient exam with pictures and, all these little kind of easy to understand paragraph templates of the things that are going on with their teeth.

And we print this off for people. It has this really informative pie diagram that shows where their risks are. And we give that to people in a little branded folio when they leave. It's kind of like their, it's not the report card. We call it the report card, but Yeah. It, it gives them something to, that's tangible to walk out with.

So that's probably on the clinic side. That's one of my favorites. The review request stuff that they've added has been amazing. That's been really helpful. Texting patients, I just text people all the time. I used to pick up the phone and call people a lot and now I just text them cause yeah, they prefer that anyway.

Yeah, so there's that the, it's a good looking piece of software. It looks fresh, it doesn't look clunky or, kind of Windows 95 esque Type approach. Easy to navigate. Treatment planning's really, really straightforward. I list goes on, like there's Not a ton about it that I dislike.

And even the things that I have disliked in the past they've addressed and they've brought into the mix. Nice man.

Michael: Awesome. All righty. So sliding back into the strategies for marketing, could you elaborate on any unique, maybe ground marketing or regular marketing strategies that have been successful to your practice?

Jordan: Yeah, I think so. It's kind of in the beginning, the ground marketing was huge. We basically were plunked into this area that was just starting to come up at the time, you know, there was not a lot there. The building that I'm in was a parking lot for the, the fruit packing plant that's in behind us for two decades before they started building stuff here, but it just blew up when they started.

So in those early days, I just went around, I used your scripts. They were great. I went around to the businesses in the area and I dropped off some stuff, and, talked with the people there that were the decision makers and said, Hey, like, we're gonna be opening our doors just down the road.

Like here's a signup sheet we're, we're gonna be taking some names and some information of anyone that might be interested in joining our clinic. And I would collect all that. And I think we had two or 300 names before we even opened our doors. You know, we were making phone calls. Two weeks before our doors open and we had pretty much a full schedule. It was just, there was just three of us. I wasn't seeing many people a day. But yeah, that, that was a huge weight off the shoulders in those early days. It was just being able to capitalize on, I have names, I have people that are interested.

I'm not gonna be sitting here twiddling my thumbs, hoping that somebody shows up. And that was great. As we've moved down into becoming a bit more established, it's, I've obviously needed to do less of that. Although I'm kind of thinking that I might do it again.

I might do some, get more involved in the community in a sense to do, do some events, do some we just did. An Invisalign day, we had a we blocked off a whole day. We sent out email blasts to our patients. We did this thing where all we did all day was scan people for Invisalign, and we offered a bit of a promo to do it.

And, we had like 30 Invisalign starts. Wow. Man, on that day, like, it was huge. Like, so, it still works even in established practices doing boots on the ground type approach. Really pays its dividends. Yeah.

Michael: that's good. That's really good. I appreciate that man.

Thank you for utilizing the, I could tell you did cuz you're like, signup sheet and I was like, oh yeah, he did. He did. But that's good man. So the Invisalign day, the promo, what was the

Jordan: promo you guys were offering? We knocked a thousand bucks off, so I Invisalign in our office, we just have a flat fee for it.

And we just do, it's all in, it's, all your treatment plus retainers. For a flat fee. And so we, we had a our, the way that our fee works is it's a bit on the higher end, so it allowed me to build in this really attractive looking thousand dollars off promo. And that's really all it took.

Like we, we did that and people just, came, we just started, we emailed our existing patient base and they. They all filled up a bunch of slots and then they asked if their friend could come do it too. And I said, yeah, okay. Why not? Right? So, and we were doing Invisalign starts on teenagers. We did two 70 year olds.

Like it was just, yeah. Like, it was all, all over the place. Like it was not what I expected at all. But, that's just what the, what this group of people needed to pull the trigger was just, Even just this kind of inkling that they're getting a bit of a deal.

Michael: Yeah. Interesting. Could I ask what the fee is?

Jordan: 6,500.

Michael: Okay. No, it's not a bad No. Compared to, yeah. Okay.

Jordan: Our main thing too, the reason that we did it initially was that my associate was new to it. And, you know, we, I do some, I don't do a ton, but we just wanted to do some more cases.

You know, He said, let's do some cases. And so we did this and it. Just blew up, it was worked out really well.

Michael: Nice. Yeah. Okay. And then, have you ever faced a situation where the promised results were not achieved with the expected timeframe? With any marketing company?

Jordan: Not with a marketing company.

I, so everything that I've ever heard and heard people say was how expensive but impactful. Mail marketing campaigns can be. And so I did one, I spent about eight grand on it. And you know, I did everything that, that I was, that I thought I was supposed to, I had a special landing page for the. That was on the uh, the card that went out. So if people went to the website that was on the card, it tracked them and was able to see, who was coming from various sources and, yeah, I mean, as far as dollars per new patient or it didn't do anywhere near as well as just the dollars we put into Google.

Michael: Okay. You did it on your eddm or what's that? You paid

Jordan: a company like was it? No. Yeah, so yeah, like I did the design. With my marketing company, we just did, like, it was really nice. It was a big like six by nine postcard thing. And then Canada Post just does they have a service that, that does the printing and the um, and the delivery of those packages.

Michael: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That happens sometimes. Like you mm-hmm. Could or miss. Right. So then as a practice owner, what advice would you give to our listeners regarding effective marketing and ROI tracking?

Jordan: Yeah, I guess it depends on how comfortable you are diving into some of that stuff. Are anything digital is gonna be easier to track ROI on?

It's really hard to make tangible distinctions about how your dollars are being spent when it's just, when it's a physical object that's going out into the ether. one of the biggest things that I think for as far as ROI goes is capitalizing on what your demographics are.

So knowing what your demographics are, knowing how many pieces of property, businesses, and households exist within a three mile or five kilometer radius of your practice. Because realistically, what you're gonna get is you're gonna get the people that are close to you from where they live.

The number of people that come from work to the office is way, way lower than the number of people that come from their homes. And, tracking that stuff, if you have a good solid marketing company, they can do that. They can create landing pages for you. They can, you can create different phone numbers that lets you track people that call numbers on various pieces of marketing.

You can always do split tests to see how certain pieces of marketing play against each other. in the US you guys have a lot more leniency in some of your advertising than we do up here, at least in British Columbia. Like, we can't really offer, promotions to people in a, in an open way.

Mm-hmm. I can advertise to my patient base, but I can't send. Postcard out that offers people a discounted exam and x-rays or cleaning that would just be a a no-no. But focusing on the patients that are gonna be in your practice for the longest, so, One piece of, one piece of marketing that I never thought would be as successful as it has been has been YouTube. YouTube impressions are cheap, super cheap. And the number of patients that I have come in, because they've seen my office video that we made Come up as a sponsored ad on whatever YouTube video they're watching. Like if you told me that a year ago, I'd say you're, you're silly.

That's ridiculous. But it's been hundreds and hundreds. Like, it's very strange.

Michael: They come in and they're like,

Jordan: I saw you on YouTube. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. I saw your ad on YouTube, man.

Michael: Break that down for me. How do you do that? So you, go on a YouTube, you decide, is it just like, Facebook ads or

Jordan: Google Ads, or how does that, honestly, I dunno if you've ever been on YouTube and watch, you're watching a YouTube video and That creator has, an ad all of a sudden comes up in the middle of your, your video. Mm-hmm. It'll just be my ad and, you know, the backend,

Michael: the backend. Like, oh, how much do you pay? And

Jordan: Oh, create it. I wanna, oh, I don't want quote me on it, but it's. Like less than a scent per impression or something like that.

It's, It's really cheap. It's bundled up with Google cuz they own YouTube. But yeah, in incredibly inexpensive.

Michael: Wow. Okay. And then so you just have the same video or you create a video specifically

Jordan: for YouTube? Yeah, no, so we, we created a video, six months after we opened with this, my marketing company.

I spent, Five grand on it. It's really professionally done. It's on our website. I leverage it all the time. Instagram, I like, I posted on Instagram I do these things many times over the last two years. But it's just that video. That's the one that's up on Instagram. So they get the intro into the office and they see, the area and it's me talking about the services we offer and things we do.

And it's just set up in a way to be really attractive. And it works. And

Michael: you set it up in like a radius of. Only around your, that's what you do like in YouTube, right? Around your town?

Jordan: Yeah. Or your community or, yeah, like we our area's pretty dense, the focus of who I bring into the practices is anybody within six kilometers.

So six kilometer radius has about, 15,000 people in it, and me and one other dentist. So that's kind of the area. And then anything outside of that, people will come. It's just I've found that as we've matured, our radius is expanding the people that we start attracting. Like, so now we bring people in from several hours away.

They've moved away and they still want to come and see us or they've heard about us, so they'll drive in to do to see us here just because there's no option in their town. But, I think as you, as your practice grows and you start bringing in more people and have a bit more clout you can expand that radius and start advertising a little bit more broadly.

But, it really just comes down to trying to make yourself look different than the person next door. And that's not always easy to do. You have You have to have something that people are attracted to, to be able to do that. Yeah, I think

Michael: that's pretty really, man. Especially like u utilizing YouTube.

Cause I feel like nobody's really,

Jordan: Oh yeah. Like, it never crossed my mind in the early days of this, it's not, I'm not someone that, that peruses YouTube baton. But apparently it's by far the most hours spent than any other platform. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

Michael: Interesting. Okay. Something to think about. Awesome, Jordan, I appreciate your time. If anyone has further questions or concerns, where can they find you?

Jordan: You can give me, gimme a call at the office. look up the website, send me a message. And happy to answer any questions

Michael: I can.

Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below. And Jordan, thank you for being with us. It's a pleasure. I'll away from you soon. Appreciate it.

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(If you DO want to work with Golden Proportions, they are actually giving all our listeners 2 EXCLUSIVE DEALS)

Reach out to Golden Proportions here: https://go.goldenproportions.com/dental-marketer-deal

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Welcome this week's MMM! It today's episode, Xana Winans is spilling the beans on what it takes to build an effective website or find the right person to do it for you. She will be sharing five of her favorite nuggets of wisdom that can make all the difference. From maintaining a secure and unique domain, to keeping your content fresh and engaging, we've got you covered. Xana also dives into the hot topic of ADA compliance, working with freelancers, and making sure your patients have a pleasant experience on your website. If you're planning on building your website, or hiring someone to, stop right now, and listen in to these 5 essential tips first!

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Catch my latest conversation with Xana for your website must-have checklist today!

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You can reach out to Xana Winans here:

Website: https://www.goldenproportions.com/

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Other Mentions and Links:

ProSites

Sesame Communications

Wordpress

Wix

Whois

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If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:

My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/

The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

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Michael: Hey Xana, so talk to us about websites. How can we utilize this, or what advice, suggestions, or methods can you give us that will help actually attract new patients through

Xana: our website? So websites, boy, one of my favorite topics to talk about Michael, um, because we get lots of calls from clients all the time, or prospective clients who are saying, okay, my website's really outdated, or I don't feel like I'm getting patients from my website.

I feel like I need a new one. And I think a lot of times doctors kind of go into the process of buying a new website from somebody or trying to build their own, but they don't actually know. What's the right way to do it? So while there are a million different things people need to know before they build a site, I thought maybe like, let me share some of what I would consider to be like the top five things you must know.

Mm-hmm. Before you build a website, whether you build it on your own, you're paying somebody else to build it. So first thing is the website domain. I am the biggest preacher about doctors need to own their own assets. So whether you're building it or you're paying somebody else to build it, doctors, you should own the domain.

You should own the login, the password. You should know exactly where it's stored. I can't tell you how many times I've had to hunt it down for people. Don't let another company, especially if you're working with a freelancer, like if you're trying to build it yourself, Register the domain for you because you could lose access to it.

I, I've seen some relationships go bad with other freelancers, and then somebody is holding essentially the keys to your marketing. They're holding it hostage. They can take the domain down if they want to, so gotta know where it lives. Gotta have complete ownership of it. If you have no idea what the status of your website is, there's actually a great site you guys can go to called Who is.com.

I don't know if you're familiar with that. Not really. Um, and you can type in any website address and it will tell you, um, if it's privately registered, you won't be able to see that much, but for most people, you'll be able to see who owns it, when it was originally registered, when it's due for renewal, if there's any other contacts on it.

Like, we'll be a technical contact on domains, just to make sure, like if things come up for renewal, that we know they're good to go. so yeah, that's a really, really big one in my mind because without a really good domain, your, your website doesn't exist. Mm-hmm. So there's one. the other thing that I think is really important to know before you build a site, whether you're building it on your own or you're paying somebody else to build it, is understand what platform the website is built on.

So I'll give you a great example. I have a client right now who, um, has a, a nice website, pretty well optimized, being built or has been built recently built by, A whole nother company in the dental marketing industry. I have no problem with what that person did in building the site. The problem is it is a proprietary backend, meaning that that website can never leave That company's.

grasp. So if you, as a doctor wanted to take your website and move it to a different host or have somebody else do your seo, you're stuck. You have to build a brand new website from scratch. So you need to know that you are building your website on something that you can take with you. Because otherwise, you know, you could be a year into a relationship, wanna move on, and you're kind of stuck and you gotta do it all over again.

And you know what goes into building a website, you, you sure don't wanna have to do that every single year. Yeah. Would

Michael: that also include like, oh man, now I also have completely change a whole different like U R L domain name and everything, or.

Xana: No, you can typical, well, if you have access to your own domain name and you're the owner of it, then you can, um, redirect to a new website when you've built it.

But you can't take the website from the company who built it. If it's a proprietary, software. Like, I'll give you an example. I think, um, ProSites does this, and that wasn't the company I was talking about. I believe Sesame does this. there's a couple of kind of the template companies and, and so you're kind of stuck.

So personally, we build on WordPress. It's universally considered like the most popular platform to build on. It's got the most flexibility. But if you're building on Wix, that's fine. Just know that you're always gonna have to host your website on Wix for the rest of your life. Yeah. Otherwise you gotta build a new one.

Michael: Gotcha, gotcha. And if Wix goes outta business, then like, okay, there goes your whole thing right. At the same time.

Xana: Gotcha. Well hopefully they're not going out of business. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael: Okay. Awesome. So number

Xana: three. Number three is security and ADA accessibility. Uh, your website being secure on a secure hosting platform is critical.

there are a lot of hackers out there who would love to get into your website. Uh, magically make it redirect to a very questionable website that might be selling drugs in another country, or even worse. And they will hold your website hostage. So you have to have your website hosted with an incredibly secure host and use an S L or security http version so that nobody can hack your site.

It's also a really good signal for Google in terms of SEO that it's a secure site. and kind of right along with that is making sure that the site is ADA accessible. So have you heard all those stories that have been going around the past couple? Mm-hmm. About. Legal firms that are claiming your website is an American with Disabilities Act accessible.

Yeah, Uhhuh, there's actually only like four, I believe four firms in the entire country that do this. They're responsible for all the lawsuits and it is not coming from an actual disabled person who can't use your website. So these. Very shady law firms are finding every website that is not built to ada, uh, specific, code.

And they're basically sending threatening letters saying, we're gonna sue you. And they are hitting the doctors up for a couple thousand dollars to basically make the lawsuit go away. Wow. Okay. Isn't that awful? That's pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah, so there's just, you gotta know if you're building it on your own, there's some options you can use.

Like accessibility is an option. It's basically a plugin that helps make sure it's, um, ADA accessible. There's a couple other versions, but that's a big one. You gotta know, or guaranteed those law firms are coming after every single dental website in time. So

Michael: how can you, right now, if we were, we're like, okay, is it ADA compliant?

I don't know. How do we tell.

Xana: so if you don't know, I would go to your website host and ask them if it is ADA accessible. I know there are testing platforms out there. I don't happen to know one off the top of my head. I can send it to you. but most people's websites are not truly ADA accessible, so ADA accessible basically means.

people need to be able to read it with a, a reader if they are visually impaired, that your images are named the right thing. That, uh, there's just all these criteria that go into it. So I'd say talk to your website company who built it, and, um, make sure that you are compliant as best as humanly possible.

It's not so much just for your actual patients, but to protect you from these crazy

Michael: lawsuits. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. So make sure you have security and ADA compliance, right? Yeah. That's number,

Xana: those three. That's number three. Uh, Fourth big thing everybody has got to know is once you build your website, I have seen plenty of doctors and freelancers build sites using WordPress templates.

There's themes out there. I think there's even one called like theme forest. You can go in and there's. Thousands of website designs, which makes it really easy to build a website. But a lot of these websites use plugins so that the plugin might make it a d a accessible, or it might make it so that your videos, play properly or that your images work on a slider.

The thing is, all these plugins go through updates, so. And they don't do them automatically most of the time. So somebody, either you or your web company needs to be staying on top of those updates because all of a sudden you'll have like a broken section in your website that just isn't working anymore.

So if you're building it on your own, know that you gotta be maintaining your plugins. And it's not just WordPress plugins are pretty much on all websites. Yeah. Okay.

Michael: So be on top of the plugins.

Xana: Out of the plugins. Okay. And then the last thing I think everybody needs to know before they build a new website is, who the heck is writing this thing?

if you're doing a template, there's a lot of prefab content, which is great, it kind of gets you started. But Google is not a fan of duplicate content, so your page on fillings is gonna be the exact same as everybody else's page on fillings who uses the same template company. So unless you really like writing, you are gonna want to pay somebody else to write the website.

So make sure you know upfront is the expectation that it's your job, the doctor to write a 25 or 30 page website, which holy cow is a lot. Or is it part of the contract with the company that you're paying for? And, um, and making sure that they get your voice and your personality in your, you know, in your brand that comes through in that content and that it's written for s e o.

So that's just a few of the things I think that people need to know before they go building a new website. Yeah.

Michael: On the number five, What do you, what have you seen work better? Because I've seen people talk about, like, as in they're mentioning like, I love my community and I love this, but then I also see people say like, oh, Dr.

Like Dr. Zana loves her community. She loves like a third person. Mm-hmm. What is, uh, what have you seen, like has been received better?

Xana: unless the doctor is personally writing the site, I wouldn't go first person. I, it feels super informal, which is great from a reader perspective. but that personality has to come through in the practice when they walk in the front door.

and there's also kind of this mix between writing for the search engines, using the right keyword phrases, using them with the right amount of density on a given page. and, and if unless you're trained in writing for seo, you might spend a lot of time writing the website and just not have it be valuable in terms of bringing new patients in the door, cuz you just don't know Google's rules for where they want the keywords to appear.

But I will tell you, I, there's a, a doctor that I know from years ago, um, and, and I don't have his name off the top of my head. He actually has a practice in, Australia. And he wrote his website, first person, and he's got this great dry sense of humor and you see it coming through in the website and it's just a joy to read because it's fun.

And that's a gift. Not a lot of people are able to share that type of personality through their site. Um, when you can, if you're, if you're someone who's got that, I absolutely encourage it cuz people are just gonna gravitate to that. They get to see you and your brand. Gotcha.

Michael: Okay. And then on number three, with the plugins, how often do you see like plugins, ODed, go out and need updating?

Xana: On a regular basis?

Michael: Like? Like weekly or, or daily

Xana: even, or? No, no, not daily. I generally say like it's a good idea once a month. Mm-hmm. Minimum once a quarter that you're logging into the backend of your website, and it'll typically give you a notification if there's a plugin that's out of date. And then you have to agree whether or not you wanna approve that plugin.

And it comes kind of up to date. But then you still need to check the site and make sure that it didn't do anything wonky. Cause you don't wanna spend, you know, three months with your, your homepage video not being able to play because some plugin was broken. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So good idea to check on it once a month ideally.

Michael: So are these the things like that. Consider, like we need to continue to optimize or like, you know what I mean, be on top of your website.

Xana: Um, this isn't even so much about the SEO and you know, your ability to be found. It's, this is about having a good experience as the consumer. So kind of that end user experience.

What are they seeing on your end? But also you as the doctor, the owner of the website. This is a really important asset, your brand and your message. You gotta make sure that you feel like it is a good reflection of you and that you, you understand what you're buying. Because the website is not just pretty pictures, it's about educating your patients and motivating them towards taking action.

Gotcha.

Michael: Okay. Is there anything we can say to, I guess, like a agency to be like, is this a proprietary. Uh, you know what I mean? Or is it, or is there like a specific, is that the phrase right there? Proprietary? Like is this a proprietary website or is this a template website or?

Xana: Um, so what I would say is, um, one of the questions you need to ask is if I decide that we no longer work together, once my website is built, do I own this website?

Can I move it to any host that I want to? Um, and they'll, they might give you a little bit of a run around. So you can also add in, you know, is this a proprietary content management system? So content management system, c m s is the, the backend where you log in and you could edit a bio or, you know, edit some content about a service.

Uh, that's a really, really important one. Now if you like your template and it's dirt cheap and you know you don't mind keeping it there for a couple of years, that's fine. It's totally okay. You should just be making an educated decision before you commit.

Michael: Ah, okay. Awesome, Xana, I appreciate your time and if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you

Xana: directly?

Uh, best thing is just to go to our website, which is golden proportions.com, um, and you can click on the chat button. It's pretty much monitored, um, all throughout the business day, but shockingly, I take a lot of chats on the weekends too. Um, and you can also just give us a call directly, the numbers on the website.

We would love to chat with you.

Michael: Awesome guys. So all her contact info's gonna be in the show notes below. And Xana, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode. My

Xana: pleasure. Thanks Michael.

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This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental LabTo check out Dandy's FREE KPI E-Book click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/learning-center/ebooks/dental-industry-kpis/‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !

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Guest: Paul EtchisonBusiness Name: Dental Practice HeroesCheck out Paul's Media:

Website: https://dentalpracticeheroes.com/

Dental Practice Heroes Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dental-practice-heroes-podcast/id1315253777

Dental Practice Hero: From Ordinary Practice to Extraordinary Experience: https://www.amazon.com/Dental-Practice-Hero-Extraordinary-Experience/dp/099978630X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1680206813&sr=1-1

Dental Practice Hero II: How a 3 Day Work Week Can Give You the Life You Want: https://www.amazon.com/Dental-Practice-Hero-II-Sequel/dp/1736658972/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1680206741&sr=1-2

Dental Business Mentor:  www.dentalbusinessmentor.com

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Other Mentions and Links:

Dr. Etchison on Episode 300!

Dr. Etchison on MMM [INTERNAL MARKETING] SMALL DETAILS THAT MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN TEAM COMMUNICATION!

Delta Dental

Keurig

MB2

Goldman Sachs

Die With Zero - Bill Perkins

Invisalign

The Top 5 Regrets of the Dying - Bronnie Ware

The Four - Scott Galloway

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Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer

Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society

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My Key Takeaways:

• Try giving your team the autonomy to own tasks and you may be surprised at what they're capable of!
• Never be afraid of you or your team messing up. This is an important part of the process of growing!
• Seniority is NOT always the best indicator of competency in a role.
• The meaning behind the task is far more important that what you're doing to complete it.
• Don't criticize team members for dropping the ball. Work together to find a better way to do things!
• Try to not be afraid of "doing nothing," as this is essential for recharging your creativity.

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Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]

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p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guests returning guests, Paul Etchison. How's it going, man?

Paul: Good. It's going good. Thanks for having me back. I really appreciate it.

Michael: No, man. I appreciate it. You've been on the Monday Morning marketing episode, and we're gonna put a link to that in the show notes, but you were also on episode 300 Nelson Ridge Family Dental.

Mm-hmm. You just sold

right?

Paul: Not that long ago. I, well, I sold, yeah, I, I sold to, uh, A D S O about two and a half years ago. So I'm still doing it. I'm still there. I'm still part of it, but my, my part of it is a little bit different now, I guess, than it was in the past, but it's, it's good. I'm, I'm excited for the future and, and I'm coming up on the end of my contract with them, but, um, no intentions on leaving, so I'll be there for long term, which my team is happy to hear.

Can we

Michael: talk about like, the of that? Like why, how much did you sell for and stuff like that, or no?

Paul: Um, no, probably not. Okay. Okay. Then why did you sell? Why did I sell? Um, you know, for me it was coming outta covid. I just like, it was so good. Just not have the practice. I mean, and some people like missed going to work.

I didn't miss it at all. I, I mean, I thought I was like really like laid back and I felt like my leads were running a lot of stuff. And then when we shut down for 11 weeks and the practice went away and all the stress went away, it was just like, I just, this weight lifted. And then I, I said when we come back, I'm doing things differently.

I, I'm not letting this, I mean, it, it was just like this, realize how much it was in my life, how much it was like taking over like my psyche and just like always occupying my mind. And, and then we came back from Covid and, and we had all these massive other things to deal with, like regulations and, and we're still worried about the virus and stuff.

But once things got back to business as usual, I said, Hey man, I'm doing something different. Started exploring the idea of. Man, do I, could I get, what kind of like money could I get for this practice? What does it make sure sense like financially long term to do this and then come, really come to grips with the fact that.

Coming to Grip with that. It wasn't so final. Like if I loved being a dental practice owner and I sold it and it was horrible and I hated the corporation and I just wanted my baby back and I just wanted to own my practice again, I could go and I can open another one. You know? So like that was like coming four C full circle, saying like, this is not as final as I think.

It's just, it's a new chapter in my life. It's a new part. It was like I did it right when I was 39. Right now I'm 41. And, um, I, I'm not sure what the next 10 years are gonna be about, but what's cool is that I feel like I'm finally doing stuff because I want to do it. And, and I know, like me saying that I wanna stay at the practice, I know I wanna stay there, whereas I.

Three years ago. It's cuz I have to, I mean, I own so much of it. Um, I own just a small percent. I, I could tell I own 15% at this time. Um, I just don't know cuz I know they're always like doing new contracts. They don't like us sharing like, the details of what we sold and what we sold. But, but right now I own 15% at this point.

And, um, it's something that I still enjoy doing. And some people would say we, 15%, is it really worth it for you to even show up? I can tell you that I, I had tried to take three, four weeks off because of a hernia surgery, and then I got covid and, and then I had a vacation mixed in there too. right before I got covid and having a whole month off of work.

I mean, it's great to get caught up on Netflix. It's great to read a lot of books. At a certain point I was like, dude, this is like test out retirement and I don't like it. I want to go back to work. So this brings this whole different attitude when I'm at the practice. No. Now do I wanna be there five days a week, four days a week?

No. I don't even wanna be there that I'm, like, I'm there like two, five and a half hour days a week. That's it. But that's, that's a comfortable level for me just to kind of stay involved, stay in it, uh, talk with my leads, run the practice. Um, see some patients and that's, that's, that's a good level for me. I don't want any more than that, but, a lot easier to step back once you've sold a lot of equity because it's just not as much risk.

But way I'm living now. I could have lived it as a hundred percent owner than, you know, I didn't need to sell to do it. I just had to sell to realize it.

Michael: what I was gonna ask you. Do you think it's possible for someone to be like, I only wanna do like two clinical days, three clinical days, and.

Do whatever I want after other days. Right. Be with family and all that stuff. I mean, that's what I think a lot of people jump into ownership for not to be like, I wanna work forever and do all this. Yeah. It's more like I wanna have an imprint on the community, but at the same time I wanna work less, call my own hours.

And it really doesn't always work out that way though.

Paul: Well, I, I think you can and you, you need to have leaders at the practice that are running things for you. And I had a leadership team. Long before I sold, like I would say I had 'em like two and a half, three years before I established like an hygiene lead, an assistant lead.

I had my office manager, an insurance lead, and essentially, like I said, man, before Covid I'd be like, they do everything. But then one co once Covid happened, I was like, dude, I still do a lot. So after I sold and there wasn't as much incentive to really push production and, grow the practice and even though we're still growing like crazy, then I stepped back and I said, Hey, You guys know how I wanna do things?

Can you guys, like, just like when there's interpersonal stuff, can you deal with it with a new department and just come get me if you really, really need me. If, if something happens with the patient, can you guys just take care of it like I would And they're just like, I could totally do this. And then they did.

And it was, it was just weird because I went through like this like three month period of. Wow, everything's running so great at the practice. Nobody's complaining. Nobody's saying like, is upset about anything. And then I, I asked my, my assistant lead who's actually, I put her, I turned under my clinical lead now cuz she's kind of like the manager for everyone on the clinical side.

She's like, dude, like, man, it just feels so good. Like there's nothing going on. She's like, dude, there's tons of stuff going on. She's like, do you wanna know about 'em? She's like, you said you didn't wanna know. And I said, gosh, if you think I need to know about 'em, she's like, I don't think you do. They're under control.

And it was just like this liberating feeling of why. Wow. Like the practice is always gonna have issues. Somebody always has to deal with them, but all of a sudden it didn't have to be me. And I just kinda stepped back and I just trusted them. And I, like I said, I could have did that at a hundred percent owner.

It's a lot easier to do when you own 15% because the risk isn't there if the practice crash isn't burns, you know, um, doesn't hurt me that bad, but at the same time, like if I did it as a hundred percent owner and it really caused a lot of issues. Like, I would've found out about it. I would've pivoted, I would've addressed it.

It was just, I just think I was too scared to relinquish that control of something that was a hundred percent mine. I was just, I couldn't let go and get out of the way. But once I did, man, that was the game changer. It was just getting out of the way and trusting my people who have been with me for a long time, who I trust, who, who have seen how I lead.

And hopefully some of that has rubbed off on them and they do the right thing and. Dude, it's never run so well. I, I, I'm just I'm blown away by how well, uh, of a job they're doing. They're just doing so well. Hmm.

Michael: I like that. When, when you said, Hey, man, only come and get me when you really needed me.

What is that? Like? What, how do they know what is really needed? Right. Kind of thing. Yeah. Cause it's like you can be, I don't wanna bother Paul with that. I don't wanna bother Paul with that, but in your mind you're like, dang, I want to. That's embezzlement. I'm wanting to know that.

Paul: Right. I think that would be, that would be one. Um, I'm trying to think of some recent situation. Like, okay, I'll give you an instance that was pretty recent is we had an assistant that was, uh, just a great person, great with the patients, uh, super cool to be around, but when they ran behind out on schedules, she would kind of lose it and just, just overwhelm and just certain behavioral things would come out in her that were just not appropriate.

Um, just anger, you know, anger and frustration. Just couldn't hide it. And, um, my assistant lead, my, my clinical lead sat down with her and she had a conversation about it. Things got better for a little bit. She sat down and had another conversation about her, about it. What, like two, three weeks later when start, things started reverting back, and then she actually like wrote, documented this meeting like, this is what needs to change.

This is your understanding that if this doesn't change, then it's, this might be a termination thing. And then when it got to me, it was like, Hey, I'm doing everything I can. this girl is just making my life just, every, I hear her name every two days I hear something about her that she did.

Mm-hmm. She's like, I think we really need to start considering talking or letting her go. So then at that point, I had a conversation with her and things got better, like they usually do for about two, three weeks. And then, um, I had another conversation with her and it was, it was, it was hard because, She knew I was having her conversation with her, and she's like, Hey, I know what you're talking about. I know I need to change the stuff. I'm gonna get better. Like, da da, da. She's like, you know what, this person, this, this and this need to change. And I just had to cut her off. I'm like, Hey, I'm so sorry.

Today's your last day. We just can't do it anymore. so that was, that was my involvement. I had to let her go. But I mean, other than that, it's like big stuff. Like right now we're dropping Delta. We just, we just sent her a letter to Delta to get out of that network. coming up with some kind of ideas with the front desk.

Why is the front desk, why are people upset with who's doing what? How can we balance duties out? So it's all this interpersonal stuff. Like, like I walked up to the desk and, and somebody was rude to me and they responded rude. I don't deal with that no more. You know that they, they can handle that. They handled the scheduling, they handle the offs when people are taken off the duplication days.

everything. They're the ones having the one-on-ones, they're the ones giving the raises. Um, I mean, with my permission obviously, and yeah, I'm just, it's just, I, it's high level stuff. Like my high level right now where I'm at, where there's no noise and I'm just saying, Hey, we're working on getting out a network.

That's what we're doing. We're getting on networks. We're at capacity. We need to get our networks. What are we doing? How are we gonna organize the front desk to ride this experience? How are we gonna train these people on the verbiages that they have to use to be an auto network dentist? How are we gonna talk to patients about this?

Let's organize what we're gonna put on a mailer. So I'm just doing like, stuff like that, but it is just so nice to get outta that noise of the interpersonal stuff, man. Cuz we got 43 employees and always something, and I just, sometimes I'm like, why can't people just be cool?

Just be cool. Please. Just why can't you just be cool? And they're, it's just, it's not possible. You know, like there's always something going on. People are, um, everyone's got their emotional stuff and their own psychology, and people have expectations that don't get met by other people, and they're disappointed and, and people can be mean, you know?

Yeah, no. So, so sometimes you gotta get involved in that. But, um, yeah, for the most part, I'm not part of that. I'm, I'm doing the high level stuff, which is, it's so much fun, man. I love it. So it's, it's, it's part of the practice that I really do enjoy. Do

Michael: you ever review it like when it comes to your, your leads, like hey, we have a monthly review or a monthly, I don't know, meeting or whatever with just the leads and we're like, okay.

And then that's when you can kind of say like, Hey, that was a red, or do you give them red flags? Like, this is when, when things should be brought up to me. Right. Anything below that? No. Kind

Paul: of things like that. You know, I never had to really do that cuz I think they, there was a part of me that was really like kinda like, just take care of it.

I don't wanna know about it. And there was a part of me that was this kinda like miserable boss where. They were almost scared to bring me stuff. So I think when it got to the point where I was like, Hey, just take care of it, they had a pretty good idea of what I didn't want to deal with and I don't, I don't know, ma, maybe I trained the people good.

Maybe they're just wonderful people. It's really hard to say. I mean, they're definitely wonderful people, but, um, I haven't had to set too many expectations with, or what I want them to do. I mean, I told 'em what I want to do, but it's just been like little things here and there like. Correction. Like, Hey, I want you to take care of this.

You know, I want you to, I, I, this is what I want to happen. I don't care how you do it. Just what do you think? Can you run with it? They're like, yeah, I'll run with it. And, and even like the people that aren't my leads, like my one, one of my assistants was like, I think we should get the coffee bar back.

Cause we took it away during Covid. I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, I'll get a Keurig, I'll find some like cabinet or something like this. And then it's like three weeks later she's like, Hey, where's the coffee bar? I'm like, dude, you know me. I, it's on my to-do list. I'm never gonna get to it. Do you wanna run with it?

She's like, I'd love to. And then one day I just came in and there's a nice piece of furniture, fits the fridge right in it, it's all stocked. It's got the espresso machine. And I'm just like, dude, you killed it. This is awesome. Like, I would've never, I wouldn't have did this, I would've just stuck like a damn keigan, like a stool or something.

like that, you know? And like, we're good. There you go, girls. You know? So it's, um, but I think we really sell ourselves short and we don't realize how much our team wants to do if you give them the autonomy to do stuff. And, and I would just beg any listeners to try to say, Hey man, like what if I just.

What if I let somebody run with something and what, and what's the worst that can happen? You know, maybe you have an upset customer patient. it's not gonna crash your business. It would just, nothing that happens within one week, one month even that you do for 3, 4, 6 months is gonna crash your business.

I mean, to, to crash your business so that it burns completely. You'd have to really screw things up for a long time. You know, you'll have time to pivot and, and adjust and, and sometimes they. can't really think of any really main situations that's happened, but I mean, they're gonna have situations where they kinda screw up and that's cool too.

You know, I, I'm totally cool with that. I screwed things up. Um, I handle situations not as gracefully as I would in retrospect sometimes. A lot of times maybe. I think it's just part of that learning experience and growing into becoming a leader, but it's. Man, my leadership skills grew a whole lot when I stepped in a leadership position.

So if we want to build up the leadership people, like our, our leadership team and build them up, we gotta get outta the way and let them step in that position. And they gotta get some bumps and bruises too. Yeah,

Michael: no, yeah, you're right. I think it's kind of difficult, especially at the beginning stages when you're like fingers on the trigger on everything, right?

Like, it's like, this is my baby. Like I need to watch everything. And you only have like one or two. So can I ask you if, if like somebody who had like, I don't know, three, four employees right now At the beginning, right? Yeah. Starting up. and they're like, man, Paul, I want you to train me like you done it and I want you to help me find leaders.

Mm-hmm. So I can train them to be leaders just like you. Cuz I'm, I'm assuming like it's best to do that at the very beginning, right? Mm-hmm. Like, this is the set, this is who I wanna find. Who'd you

Paul: do that? Well, I, I would say if anyone's that small, I don't think you really need the leaders yet. I think you can like, kind of get outta the way for some people in your team.

I don't think it's established leaders yet. And the reason I say that is because all of my leads were never my longest employees. In, in that position. Like my assistant lead was not my longest assistant. my insurance lead was not the longest front desk person. Same thing with my front desk lead.

They weren't my longest standing seniority person. So what we did is we got to a point, and this is what I would recommend to people, I probably could have did it earlier than I did it, but we got to a point, maybe like 12, 15 people where started changing policies and how we were doing things, and it just kept coming up where someone's like, I didn't know we were doing it that way.

I do. We talked about at the meeting, oh, I didn't make the meeting. Or it was like, oh, I didn't hear that. I didn't realize, oh yeah, I forgot. You know, it's just like we started having all these communication breakdowns and then, and I was always big on I wanna meet one-on-one with every single team member and a certain point, man, it, that takes a long ass time.

Mm-hmm. We got like 15 people that's why we established the leadership teams. And what we did is we had everybody do like a, you know, anonymous ballot. So we said, you know, nominate your top three people for front desk lead for assistant lead. And we did like the ranked ballot system. So if like you were the first choice, you got three points.

If you were some second choice, you got two points just in case, like somebody was, not everybody's first choice, but they were most, most people's second choice, they would get picked over. And then I took 'em home and I counted 'em. And there was part of me that was like, if they don't pick the people, I pick, I'm just gonna lie about the results and say, this is who it was, because I wanted them to own it.

But they actually did. I mean, it was like, it was like unanimous and. The team knows who the leaders are. So I would say you gotta get a little bit, I mean, you can't make a lead lead assistant if you've got two assistants, cuz you got, then you got the lead and the not lead. You know, I would think you gotta get like three, four people in each department before you do it.

Now an office manager, I think that's a leadership position you could get right away. And that's somebody who you can trust and who can take care of the payroll stuff and could take care of stuff like knowing what people are making. yeah, that was something that I did pretty early and I would, I'd recommend doing that and.

You know, like my office manager role, what she does now is very different than what she did like eight years ago. and I just had somebody ask me recently, like, did you have a job description for office manager? I'm like, no. Like, it just like over time you just keep dumping things like, Hey man, like can you take care of this thing for me every month?

Yeah, I could do that. Cool. it just frees up you like, it frees it's a, it's delegation and, and you have to train 'em on it and, um, they'll do as much as you allow 'em to, you know, and I, I think you gotta give the. You gotta do the public blessing with the team. Like, Hey, this person was used to be your peer.

Now they're, now they're, you know, they're stepping into a new leadership role. You know, we're all friends here and they're not above you, but they are gonna take over a lot of stuff for me, and I want you to treat them as you would treat me the same respect. but yeah, man, it, it, it's, there's so many people that want their office manager and they, they hire, hey, hiring office manager.

And people say, Ooh, I got six years office manager experience. Dude, half these Office of Injuries don't know from shit. Like, they're like, I don't mean swear. nobody's put 'em in a position to really lead and just kind of run with things and, and be a self-starter.

just because you know everything about insurance and you can present treatment plans doesn't make you an office manager. So, I would urge anyone who wants to do this to, to really just say, Hey, this is what I want. This kind of, I want you to be this for the office. I want you to be able to handle disagreements between people.

When an upset patient calls, I want you to take care of it and just, just make it right without asking me for permission. Like, you don't need my permission. And just go with that. And as time goes, it will evolve that that role will evolve. But man, you're gonna get some really valuable people, people on your team, and they're gonna be valuable.

People that won't wanna lead because they love their jobs, they love that autonomy, they love the role they're in. Um, we just gotta, we gotta allow them to have it.

Michael: Okay. What policies did you start changing when you started, like miscommunication

Paul: and things like that? Oh, I don't remember what it was. It might have been, I, I think the big one was with ortho, is that we just, so we didn't forget to send the stuff out.

We started putting the models in a bin on my desk so that I could pull the models out, write up the diagnosis, and pull the stuff up so that I didn't forget that they didn't, it was like a backstop to say, Hey, like if the stuff doesn't go out, Here's, here's our, second parachute.

And I think, I think it was something like that. But I mean, just things like, just random stuff like this is our procedures cuz we've always been really big on procedures. I don't have to double check it that everybody has done their part. Mm-hmm. I want to create ways that they just get done.

And I can be assured that the previous part was done. Cuz there's so much in the dental office where we're so dependent on the previous step being done correctly. Like, I mean, dude, if the, if the insurance gets verified incorrectly, Then the treatment plan's incorrect, then the payment's incorrect. Then you, you gotta take an E o B and you gotta collect it and you now you gotta balance.

Now that's incorrect. Now the patient's pissed cuz you're incorrect. And it all this stuff just trickles down just because that insurance wasn't put incorrectly, you know? Mm-hmm. So, and there's so much like that in a dental office. So we've always been big on creating like things like that and trying to create these secondary, we call 'em backstops, just in case it falls through the cracks, we'll catch it.

And sometimes we don't, you know, but that's always a, a product of we dropped the ball. Okay guys, we dropped the ball. What happened? Talk to me about it. Let's not make anyone feel guilty. Let's not criticize each other. Let's just collaborate as a team and come up with a solution so that we can not do this again.

I have coaching clients that are always like, dude, like, I can't believe you have problems like this in your practice. Dude, my practice is just like, Everybody else's, it's never gonna be without problems. I don't care how tight your systems are, we are humans and humans make mistakes.

Mm-hmm. And we forget things and we have emotions and, and those emotions affect our decisions and our behaviors. And it's a complex world and yeah. There's always gonna be a drop in the ball in somewhere, you know? It just happens.

Michael: Yeah. How many days were you practicing before you

Paul: sold? So before I sold, I was at three days a week.

So I was doing three days a week. it should have been two days a week. And the one day was like my, like, Hey, let's lead, let's talk with my teams. let's train people day. But what was started happening was I was always getting booked on that day. The front desk would book me. Mm-hmm. Because they knew I was gonna be there.

Like, Hey, do you mind like just seeing this one patient, you're gonna be here. Right. I just take like 10 minutes. I mean, it, it is, I love, love when the team's like, dude, just, just come do this with me and just take like five minutes. I'm like, dude, got. 20 people that wanna do something with me for five minutes.

and you probably get it, you get people call, Hey, can I pick your brain for 10 minutes? It's never 10 minutes, you know, it's always like an hour. So it's like, so, um, I forgot what you, where was he going with this? What did you ask me? My, how many, how you practicing? You said three days?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I had that one day that it was still like, they would just book me. So they put one patient in there and then they'd see us was seeing a patient, so they put another one. So eventually I just stopped coming in on Monday. I said, Hey, I'm done on Mondays. I'm not doing it. so then it was just two full days a week, which eventually we got to two half days a week.

And I think now I'm. More like one and a half days a week. I take off like two or three weeks every month. But I, I'm not really practicing that much. I mean, last year we, we would say a really highly productive dentist, like, man, if you could produce a million with your own hands, I think last year I did like 360,000.

It wasn't a lot, but that's all I wanna do. So that's cool with me. And now that I'm like partly paid as an associate with the dsl, Some of my paychecks for every two weeks are pretty laughable. it's like, oh, well you are two weeks and you made a hundred bucks.

All right, cool. You know, it's like, cuz, but I'm cool with that cuz I'll take time off and, and I'm not, I'm not a producer anymore. I'm much more valuable to the practice as a leader and a trainer and just, um, reaping the benefits of ownership. Even though I still own, I don't own a hundred percent. I'm still reaping a lot of benefits from owning this large practice.

Michael: Yeah. Okay man. So you were practicing three days. Before, now you're at two days a week, right? Like about two, two half days, five hour days. Two, two and a half days. Yeah. why did you sell them?

Paul: you know, as you're looking at the dollars, you, there was always this fear of delta for so many, I mean, I have Delta's, 35% of my practice.

There was always this fear that my whole business model could change by the stroke of a pen. You know, we were, I 85% p p o, 15% cash. Um, 35% Delta Premier p o. And it was just like looking at the numbers, there's this consolidation happening in the industry. It's like, things are hot. It's like we're the, we're like where the housing market was like last summer, you know, it's like, This is the time to sell if I can sell. So it was just looking at numbers, looking at what I have saved up, looking at what, and I've always been doing like real estate investing, so I've got some passive income on the side coming from there. Oh. And just being like, can I. Float with this? Yeah. I mean, could it be really lucrative?

Yeah. I mean, it's been better than ever thought it could be. I mean, one of the great things I know I'm not doing a plug for, for MB two by any means, but one of the great things is they let us to, they let us invest in the company. And that's worked out really, really well. So I've actually made way more by selling than I would've keeping the ownership, if you can believe it.

Now is, is, are those returns gonna be here five, 10 years from now? I don't know. This is half because private equity really likes dentistry right now. but I can say there's a lot of ill feelings towards corporate, um, with my corporation. I don't feel that, I don't think any of the members do. And I will tell you, I didn't lose a single team member during the transition.

And for all intents and purposes, my team doesn't even know they exist. You know, it's, it's, it's still my practice and I think that's kind of what they're not saying. There's not some crappy ones out there that we should stay away from, but, I'm really happy with the decision that I made with mine.

Michael: Yeah. I've been hearing a lot about MB two actually. Like where they, so what, what do they do? Are they just A D S O?

Paul: Yeah. I mean, they call themselves A D P O, which is just, I think, just a way to brand themselves different from the D S O nastiness, uh, D P O P standing for partnership. And, um, you know, they just handle some stuff on the backend.

They, they handle my insurance collections and that stuff like that. They do the credentialing, they do the hr, they do, um, my marketing. Um, they do pretty much anything I ask them for that they can help me admin, backend wise, talking to the companies and, and getting in increases in the fee schedule, stuff like that.

But I mean, for, for the most part, I mean, I have a regional manager, her name's that she's great. And she's just like, gosh, I, I just hadn't been in practice forever. I feel like you never want me to come there. Like, I wanna do something for you. Like, what can I do? And I'm like, mm-hmm. We're good. We're totally good.

So they're cool with, like, they trust their partners to run the practices the way they, they want to, cuz they're very selective with who they partner with too. Mm-hmm. Um, and they just let us do what we want. You know, I'm, I'm still running it, it still feels like it's a hundred percent my practice. I, I make all the decisions.

If I need help, I reach out. If I don't want help, I don't. And for me, my practice was running pretty well. It was pretty systematized already. Last thing I wanted was a corporation to come in here and tell me, tell us how to do things. My team would've hated me. So, um, I, I found the group that would allow me to continue my autonomy and running the practice the way that I want to and taking care of patients the way I want to.

So, I mean, they're there for help, but I mean, for the most part it's, we've just banded together and we get the benefits of being a group. And we get the support that by no means are they the group that if you're like, dude, I can't do this anymore. I just want someone to come in and take over my practice and run it.

That's not the group. You know, there's, there's other groups that'll do that. And I think, I think that sounds really good, but you're probably gonna be miserable. You sign up with a group like that, you're not gonna about

Michael: that. Yeah. So then you mainly kind of did it for, I mean, how long were you running this on your own Nelson?

Paul: Um, right about eight years. Eight years.

Michael: Eight years, okay. Do you feel like it was, at one point you were kind of like, I don't want the weight of the world right now on me as of for right now, at least maybe later on, but right now I don't kind of thing. Is that what it

Paul: was? It was, yeah. Absolutely, man.

It was, it was just a heavy weight. That's the best way I could describe it. It was just always freaking there. And, and there was, and, and I've also done like life coaching and I've, I've always been a big fan of therapy and I've always been working with a therapist on and off for my, my whole maybe the past 15 years of my life.

And, um, it was just heavy man and it was just always there. And it was spilling over into other relationships where I was just kind of just grumpy, man. I was just overwhelmed and pissed off. And, It just seemed like my whole entire, as this practice grew from, you know, just me and three other girls to like this 45 person team and other doctors and specialists and stuff, and I just felt like this house of car is just gonna tip.

Any moment what is gonna be the, what's gonna be the Goldman Sachs of this practice, you know, like, what is, what's gonna happen? And, um, I felt like that the whole time that I was the a hundred percent owner that it was. And so it's me. It's my thought process, it's my mindset. it's my makeup of my just general relationship with anxiety and how I look at things.

But that can make me a very good leader and a very good business owner because I'm striving to try to get something that's gonna make me feel better. But at the same time, it's also like a curse because I never get to really feel comfortable about it. Mm-hmm. So for me, it was I just wanted that comfort.

I wanted to feel comfort. And it took, you know, some like, things happened in my life, like read a certain book, like some like aha moments. Um, one of the books was like, die was Zero. I'm not sure if you read with that, but it kind of talked about how we like build this big nest egg so that we can just retire when it's like, dude, we don't know how much time we have.

And if you take any money to the grave with you, essentially worked for that for free. That was free work you did, cuz you never got to enjoy the fruits of that labor. So why the hell try to save everything and start trying to enjoy life now? Man, I can go hiking, I can climb mountains, I can do all this stuff.

I might not be able to do that when I'm 50. I can play golf, like I can play golf five days a week if I want right now. And um, Monday my back might not allow me to do that. So why am I waiting until like, to build this big thing before I can retire? So I've kind of entered into this almost like mini retirement phase where, I would say like, it's not retirement, but it's, it's, it is freedom.

You know? Mm-hmm. It would be like the fire principles, I suppose. so it's like, dude, like that's totally cool. Like, you crazy. You're 39 years old. What the heck are you doing? Like, are you gonna do for the rest of your life? I'm like, I don't know. I'd love to be a fireman.

Apparently I'm too old for that. I guess you gotta be like 30 or something. I don't know. I'd like to go do something different, you know? And, uh, I don't know what that's gonna be. And you know what, if it's really dentistry and I just really love it and I wanna own a hundred percent practice, I go do it again.

I'll do it faster, I'll do it better. And um, yeah, I'll do it better than I did it last time. You know, I, I'm comfortable with that, that, I can do that. And then as a fail safe, I can always go back to just for doing dentistry five days a week as an associate. If I like, I mean, I can do whatever. How can I want?

so, but, but I've got that comfort now and, and I was always seeking that, which is I think is part of the motivation behind me reaching all these success points. Cuz I was trying to find something, man, once I get that, it's gonna feel good, it's gonna feel different. It never did. I had everything I needed the whole time.

It just had to get to the end to kind of realize that. Yeah.

Michael: Do you think maybe you kind of, like you were thinking you were reaching something, but really you were kind of running away from something? Hmm. You know what I mean? Like maybe something in the past where you're like, I, I never want to feel that feeling again.

I never wanna get to that situation again. And you just kept running and running and running. Maybe

Paul: I, I think for me, I was running away from just a general sense of anxiety and for me to stay busy at work, felt good. You know, and, and people like, I like to say, man, I grinded these years, man. I grinded so hard.

It wasn't a grind. I mean, it was hard, but it was like, I was drawn to it. I liked doing it. I didn't like sitting, I hate sitting. to the detriment of my family, it was hard just to sit and just be, it was always like, man, I should get some more stuff done. What do I got to do? Like, what do I gotta do this week?

I should get it done so I, so I can relax. And then what would happen is I would get all the stuff done and I wouldn't relax. I'd be thinking about, man, what else can I do? And, um, Just got myself really overbooked with, I mean, with the podcast, with the writing and, uh, the practice and the real estate and, and doing like separate, like just teaching videos, coaching, consulting and stuff.

I mean, I was just overbooked it was like I just wasn't comfortable sitting and through therapy through my life coach. My life coach really made a really big difference. And she even said like, I took my coaching clients. I cut 'em down from 15 to five. And she said, what do you think about making a commitment for the next six months that you won't take on any projects?

I said, sure, let's, let's do it. So we committed to it, but damn, it was hard. cuz I started having all this time that I wasn't used to. I'm like, what do I do with this time? I'm like, I should start another project. Maybe I'll write another book. Maybe I'll do this. And I'm like, no, no more projects until six months from now.

And through that process, it's almost like I discovered this part of myself that I was kind of. Not comfortable with was just doing nothing. Just watching tv, just like sitting, putting my daughter to bed and, and laying in bed with her for like 45 minutes to an hour and just talking to her about her day.

Whereas I would be like, okay, I gotta get these kids to bed. I got stuff to do. committing to a one, one or two date nights with my wife every week, like, as like a priority. Like, it's not like we can, if we can find time and, and not to say that my relationships with my family was bad before, but.

Man, it, it's night and day to how it is now, but I had to, it was uncomfortable at first to sit and just be idle because it felt, that's what it felt like to me. It felt like idleness and I didn't like that. But then I had to start realizing then, and then you, connect and you're like, man, I really like this.

This is okay. Like I don't have to be running and. in rat racing my whole entire life, what the hell is it worth? And just looking at what are we doing this for? Like this, these deep like spiritual, like conscious, like, the spirituality of like, what are we here for? What are, what are, what is our purpose?

What are we here to do? And so it was just everything kind of happened in a succession and I think it happened for a reason. I wish I could have skipped a lot of parts of it. But I don't think I would've came out to where I'm at if I did skip those parts. So it's like if I could change things, I would've done 'em differently, but I wouldn't know what I know if I hadn't done things the way I did 'em.

Michael: Mm-hmm. Yeah, man, that's true. Like, I remember I used to feel bad all the time about like relaxing, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then you go on social media and people are like, I'm hustling, I'm grinding, and all these things. Yeah. And I, I feel like whenever you're, not doing nothing, like when you're doing nothing kind of thing, That's when a lot of creativity can spark.

But we live in a day and age where we call that boredom. Yeah. And so we're like, oh, he's just bored. But we gotta be good with that. We gotta be good with feeling like we're not doing nothing for, you know what I mean? Like being in the moment kind of thing. Absolutely. Um, or else for ne we not, you can tell the world's not creative as much as it used to be.

Right. We're just like regurgitating stuff from the past and the past and the past and cuz we can't. We feel guilty for relaxing, I guess,

Paul: huh? Well, I'll, I'll tell you something I do, and this is gonna sound like some like major, like old man stuff for people, but like, I got this recliner in my bedroom and, and people always come in my bedroom and they say, why is this recliner not based on the tv?

Because you can't see, you can't see the TV from the recliner. And it, it, it was like originally bought as like, I wanna read in this chair. But you know, a lot of times, like, dude, I just sit in that chair and it's right by a window. Open the window, listen to birds. And I just sit, man. And sometimes I fall asleep and sometimes I don't.

And it's just nice just to, it's relaxing, but it's, it's not me relaxing watching something being distracted. It's me just sitting with my thoughts, just focusing on my breath, and just chilling out. And for me before that would be like, dude, Do something. Look at all this time, you're wasting doing nothing.

That's not a waste of time. That is for me. And that's what recharges me and makes me feel good. And I, I never realized it before. Mm-hmm.

Michael: I like that man. So then when did the second book come out? Like was that out of, uh,

Paul: After six months or so, you, you'll, you'll, this is all tied together now, where this book came from.

This, I wrote this during Covid. So this was me being home with nothing to do 24 hours a day and being like, I got all this time. Let's write another book. And you know what, what I realized my first book was kind of where I was at the time that I wrote it. And, and the books are, they're always written about two years before they come out.

So, the first book was about running an amazing practice. This book was about how I stepped out of the chair. And what I noticed in my income as well, the growth, growth of the practice, when I started just like leading and training and like realizing that I'm more valuable as a trainer than I am as a producer.

Cuz there was a certain point where I looked at my practice and I said, okay, like if I treat myself as an associate and I pay myself 30% of my production, how much did I take home last year? That was because I got paid 30% of my production and it was like 15%. So the other 85% of my take home income was because I was an owner.

But then I was spending 90% of my time doing production activities and maybe 10% doing ownership a activities. So as much as my patients love me and they wanna see me, and the Hi Jess, love working with me and everyone wants to work with Dr. Etch, I was way more valuable spreading my uh, Training and, and what I knew and helping other people grow at the practice I was monetarily and for, for them too, like, I mean, just being present and working with people.

Um, I was more valuable doing that. It was much more, uh, financially rewarding and it was me producing dentistry. And that kind of made me realize, man, I'm just, I just stopped doing fillings, eventually stopped doing crowns. stop doing endo and, and now all I do is I do banded bracket on kids in Invisalign.

You know, that's pretty much my whole five and a half hour day. And then my other five hour day is just me doing like veneers and placing an implant or two. But, I think next year I only have maybe eight of those days that I booked for 2024. And so it's, I'm sorry, 2023. I think I only have eight of those days that I'm doing that.

And the team might wrote me into doing some more, but I kind of don't want to, I just wanna, I love doing ortho. Yeah. I's, uh, the other part's starting to wear on me? ortho is predictable and everything else in dentistry to me is it's, it's unpredictable. I mean, to some extent, and I just think I don't like that level of predictability or of unpredictability.

I don't have that level of unpredictability with my team, you know, with my team. So it's doing what I enjoy doing, and it's what the practice needs. Every practice needs a person. I mean, if you could focus full time on running your practice, Man, what would your practice do? So that, that's the purpose of the book, is like, how do we get ourselves outta the chair?

And for me it's a lot of leadership principles such as like you owning everything like your locus of control, I call it. Um, balancing your, your regular workload with what I call celebratory work with. Just like this is the stuff, this is the investments in time, this is you training someone else to do something.

This is your delegation. just making sure that you've got a compass that's, that's guiding you, that every decision, little decision you make is taking you there. there's a lot of mindset stuff that I think is more important than the actual mechanics. The second half of the book talks about the mechanics and what I think are the best systems, the best things for treatment plan, presentation, what things we can train our team on to make our practices better. But I think ultimately that beginning part of the book, that first half is what's really important. That's the leadership. That's communication. How do we deal with team? What kind of attitude do we approach?

Conflict? What kind of attitude do we approach growth and, and collaboration? And, and that's kind of all in there because I think that's something I've learned. Maybe I had an inclination. I was kind of lucky that this came easy to me. But, um, That's what I think has made the biggest difference in my practice.

It's not the what, it's the how we've done it and, and, and the meaning behind it rather than the actual, this is what we did. If that makes sense.

Michael: Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Uh uh, uh, instructions are always better, right? Like, give me the meat and potatoes of everything. Not so much like the, nobody wants to fluff, right?

Mm-hmm. Uh, of anything. But, um, I think that's really interesting when it comes to the marketing side of your practice. Mm-hmm. And, um, Your systems? How did that come along?

Paul: For marketing specifically, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. So for marketing, we used to try a lot of modalities. We would try like, I mean we tried like the ads, the sponsorships and stuff like that, and we still do some team sponsorships, but I would say we don't do mailers anymore.

It's kind of just come into what I think is the most important is just seo your digital image, like your DI digital reputation. And making sure that when people are searching you, that uh, you show up and that you have a nice website and, uh, some nice media and pictures and, and videos on there to back it up.

And then it's like, I mean, marketing, we're trying to generate a phone call. We've gotta follow through by having nice patient experience on that end. I don't think the majority of our patients come from either the internet or existing patients. Typically right now are seeing about 180 new patients a month.

We've seen when we came six months after Covid, when we had a ton of availability, we saw like 230, which was a huge indicator to me that, man, we could really blow these doors open if we could find some more hygienists. But, yeah, I haven't cracked that. Not yet. I haven't figured that one out yet. I don't know where they all went.

They all went, moved some island or something. Yeah. And uh, I think the biggest thing is, is for us is digital. I mean, we pay per click, um, just Facebook stuff and, you know, and I, I tell my coaching clients all the time, You'd be blown away how many new patients you could see if one, you stayed open late or two when you saw a new patient.

You tried to get the rest of the family to book if when they came in there for visit. And I can't tell you how many coaching classes don't do that. They're just like, man, like we just started getting so many new patients. Cuz we just started asking. And it's not like you're asking like, Hey, you got anybody looking?

You know anyone looking for a good dentistry? It's not doing that. It's saying, Hey, is there anyone else in your family you wanna make an appointment for? And then they'll say, oh, my husband, he's, he's busy. I'll have him call. Well, why don't we just make an appointment and he can call if it, when it gets closer, he'll get some reminder texts if he needs to change it.

Okay. You know, you just get him on the schedule and not be pushy. I mean, but, um, doesn't cost a sign. Yeah. I mean that's just, that's just normal. That's just having a checkout protocol that your team follows and you just hold them accountable to it. Yeah, you're right. That's

Michael: not being pushy. It's just like, it's being easy.

Like, hey, let's just get 'em on that, you know what I mean? Like, put him on there. Right now it's no, no, no issue. You know what I mean? Kind of thing.

Paul: Well, you gotta make your appointment. I mean, I had to do, my cholesterol was high and he, my doctor wanted to put me on some cholesterol. I'm like, dude, man, I've been eating crappy.

I'm drinking a lot. You know, give me two months to get this together and I'll come back and I'll get it straightened out. So I went back and I took blood and everything was straightened out, but it was like 18 months later and he's like, he's like, I told you come back in two months. You waited a year and a half.

I'm like, no, like show me the chart. And he's like, I'm like, dude, wow. I thought it was like five months maybe. I knew I was behind. But you don't, you don't make that next appointment. You get lost. Life gets busy.

Michael: Yeah, life gets busy. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And you don't think it does right at all, but it does.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're right, man. Yeah. Awesome man. I appreciate you opening up a little bit. You know what I mean? Talking to us about, How it's been going on, why the book came out, but at the same time, um, the, the feelings behind selling, right. The motive behind it, because I, I do, I do agree with that.

Sometimes we feel like, oh, we gotta retire, and then you get a taste of it and you're like, I can't do this. Yeah. I can't, like so much Netflix, you go watch, like you said, and, and all these other stuff and, and do things on the side. So there is a thing, I think a sweet spot where it's like hybrid retiring or something like that, right.

Where you just, mm-hmm. You're doing what you want, making money, but you can do this forever if you, you know what I mean? Kind of thing. Yeah, I do, I do

video1985894603-cm: agree

Paul: with that. That's where I, I think I'm at now. Like, I'll tell you, I, where I'm at right now is we're recording this, it's almost 3:00 PM mm-hmm.

And I woke up at seven o'clock. I made my kids breakfast. I got 'em off to school. I went to bed from 8:00 AM to about noon. People think it's crazy, but this is what I do every single day. I go to bed till about noon, and then I went and I worked out with a person, trainer, came here, took a shower, and I'm spending with you and my kids are getting home from school and this is, this was my day and this was a productive day because I got to do this with you.

So this is a check the box today just by talking to you for an hour. So, so, but yeah, that's where I think I'm at. And um, and I have some days where I have a lot of coaching calls too that, that are more busy, but I'm, I'm not doing more than four or five hours a day. That's, that's, I think that's a realistic level that I can do the rest of my life.

And it is like that Brony Ware book, the Five Regrets of the Dying. one was that they worked too much. two I think was that they didn't stay in touch with friends. I, one, that one that stuck with me was. I lived my life to every other people's expectations instead of doing what I thought was in my heart.

And I feel like that's what I'm doing now. And I think a lot of us just need to sit back and say, man, what do I really want outta life? Because if you sit down and you say, what do I want? And you say, well, how do I get that? Who has what I want? What do they do? It's just a matter of just following the steps and getting it done, and just being kind of laser focused on this is what you want.

And that's saying no to stuff and putting up boundaries, but. You know, you gotta live life for you. And I think a lot of us don't do that. And that's kind of just where my new take is. And I, and I don't wanna give the impression, I figured it all out. I, man, I, I'm just as messy as everybody else.

But, um, I, I, I like where I'm at. I'm excited for the next chapter.

Michael: Yeah, I agree with that, man. It's crazy you say that, not that long ago. You know how some people kind of talk about like, yeah, I wanna build my legacy and I wanna build like an empire for myself. And I remember talking about that and I was like, do I. Really wanna do that. Right? Right. Like it, it sounds cool. It sounds nice, and I would, I would say that, but then I'm like, I think I just want to spend time with the people I want to spend time with and do what I want to do and whatever. Ha, you know what I mean, kind of thing. I'd rather have that than being like, I.

I grind and I build this empire, but like my kids hit me or something.

Paul: You know what I mean? Crazy. Hey. Exactly. And then they're gonna go to college and they don't wanna be around you. And then, Hey kids, let's spend time now. Dude, I'm already growing up. Yeah, you weren't there when I need you. It, it's funny like the things that we want and I find myself doing it too cuz I'm very happy with my house, very happy with my cars, everything I own and stuff and, and I don't really see myself making more money to have more possessions.

But then here comes my brother-in-law just built a brand new house and man, does it look awesome. And man, do I want, well, I'm just like, dude, uh, I really liked my house, but now I kind of like your house. So, so now I'm like, well, maybe I do want more things. I'm like, I, I have to check myself. Like, no, it's not gonna change anything.

It's, it's just going to, you'll, you'll eventually reach that baseline again. But, uh, it's, it's human to want, you know, it's, it's just how we are. I think that's true.

Michael: It's human day one compared to, right. You're like, oh man, that person's doing that. And we have like, so much to. Social media, right? Like you're always kind of like unwanting, like comparing kind of thing.

So, You just got, you're right. Has to check yourself, like nip it in the bud and be like, Nope, nah, I don't, I don't think I'm gonna do that. You know, kind of thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I appreciate you, man. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. We, if anybody has questions, concerns, or wants more information on your coaching, where can they reach out to you?

Paul: Yeah. Dental practice heroes.com. Um, the podcast is Dental Practice Heroes, but yeah, dental practice heroes.com. It's got my books, my coaching, um, my teaching stuff, just some videos, business training, stuff like that. So, and there's a contact form. You can contact me there. You can also go and schedule a call with me if you want, or you can schedule a call with any of my leads.

They're also available too. You can just schedule, use the online scheduler that's on the coaching tab. So, um, yeah, man, like thanks for having me, dude. I always, I had a really good time talking.

Michael: Oh yeah. Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below. And Paul, thank you for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon.

All right, thanks.

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